 Okay, we are recording what's up everybody drew here that anxiety guy calm. It's been a while back with Holly. What's up, huh? Yeah, good all good. Yes. Happy new year everybody. It's January 2018. I Know it's weird isn't it it is Right in the day at the other day and I was just like oh I get to say 2017 and I was like really chuffed because I was thinking it was 2017 because that still felt like the new Yeah, and I was like, oh my god, it's 2018. I know did you have a how are your holidays with a good? Yeah, pretty good. Yeah, it was quiet. I've been my Yorker So it's it doesn't really feel like Christmas because it's kind of quite sunny and I don't know how you deal with that I couldn't like that's not Christmas, you know Friends in Australia. That's what they deal with Well my husband and his family they're South Africans. So they're just like all this is winter, you know Yeah, yeah, Christmas is hot for them, right? Yeah So anyway, we are it's been a while Because we everybody's just been kind of busy and we are back with the next chapter of hope and help for your nerves By dr. Weeks dr. Claire Weeks if you have not there you go. Thank you, Holly If you do not have the book maybe go get it It's really cheap on Amazon to follow along with us We're gonna do chapter 8 today if you haven't seen the first seven chapters You can go to my website that anxiety guy calm and I can't I'll try and remember the link But I actually have a link there that shows you the whole thing or my YouTube channel. There's a playlist there. So Yeah, catch up on the first I subscribe to that anxiety guy and it pops up on my phone when you put a new video Which is really yeah, it's going like Do you's got a new video? I think probably because YouTube has changed it So if you do subscribe, I think you have to hit the little bell icon now to get notified I'm a bad youtuber because I never like thank for subscribers and stuff. I should I know I should It's just handy to know when the next one's out. I know right so anyway, let's talk about chapter 8 chapter 8 is Entitled fear of leaving the safety of home parentheses agoraphobia And this is a this is a subject that I have extensive experience with because I have dealt with this in the past Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah, so let's talk about what good old dr. Weeks says about what agoraphobia is and I found it interesting that she kind of discussed although again keep in mind as you're listening to us that this book was written I think in the 60s, so it's early 60s Yeah, so some of the concepts are a little bit dated, but she talks about you know the classical Definition of agoraphobia which is fear of an open space Yeah, or fear of the market place, right agorah. Yeah, exactly It's a Greek word, but so she gets into that but it's interesting She talks about how most people with agoraphobia try to conceal it Which is interesting that isn't it? Still applies today. I think it does but less so certainly than when it was written But yeah, yeah, I think I had to think about that for a second when I was reading it because I'm not sure Did I ever try I probably did conceal it? I don't know if I was making a concerted effort to conceal it But I probably wasn't when I was dealing with that. I I didn't just I didn't run around telling everybody that I knew about it Yeah, I yeah, I concealed panic. This is all that just fussed everything Concealed it. So yeah, I had just a billion excuses of yeah And she talks about that that you know people conceal it and they just make excuse after excuse to avoid You know seeing friends are going to family functions and it's all about not wanting to leave And I think we'll modify our definition of agoraphobia a little bit Not wanting to leave the safety of the home is what she's talking about But it's it's really all about going into situations and places that are going to make you feel uncomfortable that's really what agoraphobia is and She also mentions which is interesting About how more women seem to suffer from agoraphobia, but I think that's an older concept also that's reporting bias to a certain extent And I think it's from the days the 50s. Yeah, maybe men didn't want to admit to it Exactly or I think women were more like less likely to be out in the workforce So they did just naturally spend more time at home and I think all of those cultural things at least in the west, you know Here's my theory. We were just discussing off offer. Um, I had like when I was reading my research for this chapter I was like, oh my god busy people don't get agoraphobia I mean, of course they they do but if you're staying busy, it doesn't it's physically sort of can't happen to you because you're If you're living the house, then you're not being agoraphobic, you know, that's true. That's when you stop or when you're in the house Um, then it sort of sets in that's what I find. So maybe like with the Women who were traditionally more at home. It's hard when you're at home all day so then I think that's true because I think you wind up in a situation where If you're out of the house all the time and and let's talk about you know what we we could talk about how agoraphobia develops And I know one of the things that's a little bit of a pet peeve for me is when people talk about agoraphobia as a disease And I've heard that like this is I have a disease. It's agoraphobia It's not, you know, I'm sorry. It's not a disease. It's a learned state. Nobody chooses to learn this, of course I'm not I'm not saying we choose to be this way, but it is a learned state It's a cognitive malfunction. It's not a disease and especially when I hear people say well I started taking xyz medication and it cured that does it cured agoraphobia No, it didn't it just took away your anxiety symptoms, which meant that you could go out of the house so I agoraphobia is really what happens because she says Um, she avoids and avoids and avoids is is one of the headings subheadings And that kind of leads us to how do how do you wind up being agoraphobic? It usually will always stem from some anxiety state, right? Yeah, so you have an anxiety disorder you have panic disorder you're having panic attacks Agoraphobia is what happens when you begin to avoid every place that you experience panic or anxiety So first the supermarket and you stop going there then the school and you stop going there then the shopping mall You stop going there then work and you stop going there then school and you stop going there And your world gets smaller and smaller and smaller until the only place that you feel that you might be safe Is in your home or even I've known people who have been confined to one place in their home The sofa the bedroom, you know for very long stretches of time So that's what agoraphobia really is it's it's the natural progression of avoidance. I can't go here I can't go here. I can't go here. I can't go here things get smaller and smaller and smaller And suddenly the only place that you really have is your home Yeah The only other thing I'll add to that is that which she doesn't particularly mention is that I know for me when I was because I was 11 when it sort of Fully came on on to me right Was that it wasn't that I was necessarily because I was just in a panic attack state like, you know Up and down kind of constantly, you know, and it so to me I wasn't really bothered that oh no if I go here I'll have a panic attack It was because I was just having it all the time anyway But I was just definitely afraid of people seeing we have a panic attack because That would just make it a million times worse in my head because I guess it was some sort of like social anxiety on top of it, you know like Okay, I think I Suffered every type of anxiety altogether in a very sort of intensive burst and so and I had to learn to To not care what people thought about me in order to be able to get back to school and stuff for me And that's sort of why I just sort of gave up caring, you know, like yeah Yeah, which is just very slightly different to the if you're just scared of where it's gonna happen to you know Interesting. Okay. So for you it was you actually had two different It wasn't so much that you would panic is that you didn't it was that you would panic and you didn't want people to see you panic Yeah at the beginning it was I mean as I got older and stuff and I got better But I then it then it was a bit of everything really That's just one facet of it that I think that Just isn't covered in here. And so That can make it 10 times harder I think if you're then afraid that people are gonna see you and what are they gonna think and then that makes you more In an anxious state Do you see I could totally believe that then I guess if you you don't want yeah, sure you don't want people to Yeah, I don't know why I was so bothered but at the time I was so bothered It was just like that would be the worst case scenario was people my school friends seeing me have Like because when you're teenager that kind of stuff is It's it's embarrassing. I get it Well, interestingly, let's go through and so that's kind of how it how it develops Is you begin to avoid more and more places either because you're afraid of how you're gonna feel And I think then we've said this on other chapters too and all my other podcasts and stuff It's not so much that you are afraid of that particular place And she mentions this you you know that the supermarket won't collapse on you and you know the manager What is she something about the manager of the supermarket isn't going to shoot you with a gun you know that Yeah, so you're not you don't become afraid of those places You become afraid of how you will feel in those places Exactly she specifically mentions that so and and actually there's a really good book called the agoraphobia handbook that I've mentioned to a few people over time And in the beginning of that book too, they also and it's a good book because it takes you through some You know worksheets and exercises you could do to start to deal with this But they even define it as agoraphobia is not the fear of leaving the house It's the fear of going into places where you will have a symptom attack Which is yeah, so which is exactly what it is You just don't want to go places where you might feel badly or you think you might feel badly So that's what that's all about and she what's interesting is how and she uses she All the time she she's the chapter like it's a very it's a little bit a little bit sexist in a way But just stick with it remember the time that Men get all the he he he all the time. So yeah, so we'll give you this one. I mean Sorry, we'll give you the agoraphobia chapter It's so strange and and at one point she she also even talks about the label and you had mentioned this She doesn't want to use the term agoraphobia. Yeah, she says at the end She said because she sort of has an introductory paragraph where she talks about how it sort of develops and what it is And then she says I will not use the term agoraphobia again It labels fear too. Definitely and makes it sound too discouragingly permanent and I Totally agree. I'm not saying we shouldn't call it agoraphobia But I totally agree with the sort of sentiment of that and I I've seen people say stuff like Oh, I don't go. I don't leave the house because I'm agoraphobic. So therefore I Do this like have all these sort of round cuts to stuff and it's like I know what you're saying But it's just it's almost in the language that it's been said in it makes it feel like Oh, you know, I have diabetes. So I don't eat these types of food or do you know what I mean? Like yes, not that permanent, you know That's the thing I said before Therefore I can't drive in my car Right, exactly. I have like you said, I have diabetes. So I can't eat cake You know, it's not that and that's what I said before. It's not a disease. I don't like when people label it that I have this disease or this I am agoraphobic. I am you know, those are tough things. It's just like anything else. These are just bad Cognitive habits so we can yeah, like currently I am leaning. I am I have agoraphobic tendencies Right That is so funny because I have to use that exact phrase many times over the years Like if I'm not careful, I will start to exhibit agoraphobic tendencies. I have literally said that many times. So that's so funny Yeah, yeah So I like that. She doesn't want to give it any more, you know any more power than it deserves. I guess So then she goes on to you know, talk about uh, she again so sexist I love the cultural references though, you know in quotes the subheading it all started after the birth of my baby And it's so funny because it kind of does speak to that time when you know panic disorder anxiety It starts agoraphobia. Sometimes we're even referred to as housewives disease. I mean, yeah Well, I think valium was always known as mother's little helper. I know like hey, if you're listening by the way Don't boycott me. I'm not I'm a good dude. I swear. I'm just just telling you what what she wrote I think there's quite a lot but I can understand like I've heard a lot of people say like How after the birth of their baby, you know, this sort of like has happened to them because they I think hormonally it can be a difficult time sometimes which can be anxiety like panic attack sort of producing and stuff and anxiety producing and then also because especially if You used to go out a lot or do stuff like when you have a baby that you're looking after Whether you're the man or the woman that's looking after the baby You're in the house a lot, you know, and it's And it's sort of like so whether you were even meaning to avoid stuff You are like not doing as much outside of the house than you used to and so I can try to understand how it Sets in I still I struggle with it sometimes now because I've got a one year old, you know And you do find yourself at home a lot and it's sometimes difficult to go out and And and do more stuff. And so it absolutely is that sort of breeding ground for agoraphobia I could see that Yeah, and then obviously if you're like suffering anxiety and you're not Sort of aware of how to deal with the anxiety Which we discussed in the previous chapters, you know And then so like for me, it's like quite simple equation like anxiety and avoidance equals agoraphobia That's that's very true. That is the perfect formula right there Yeah, and I think you're right. So if you are a new mom and you're you know Just the practical nature of being a mom is going to keep you in the house a little bit more That's even worse. Well, maybe if you lost your job, you got made redundant or whatever And then suddenly like you're in the house and you're like, I don't know what to do or you know And you're just not out and about as if you're not like being kept busy by being out and about Because you don't have a reason to go or or you can't go because you're dealing with an infant for whatever Or if you've been ill, you know, like a long-term Did you back you know something these things like Yeah, you'll have a knock on the it's that Breeding ground, you know, so so we have that combination of anxiety plus avoidance and avoidance could come in two flavors It's it's chosen avoidance. And then there's also that sort of Unchosen or forced avoidance because of illness or life circumstances or whatever You just it's something we should just remain aware of because I know we were talking again before we went on the air that You know, both of us if we're not careful those sort of things could sneak in again So, you know a snow storm here in new york. Anyway, like the christmas break I'll tell you just briefly and we're getting in a tangent a little bit, but I think it applies There were past times in the past when You know, we'd have the christmas break here So especially the kids would would end just before christmas eve They wouldn't go back to school till after new years and there were times when that break We had two years I believe where the break was a full two weeks long and then we have cold weather We might have snow it's the perfect recipe for Everything just slows down, you know people aren't really looking for you at work And it is a recipe for like hibernating for a week or two You know and just like retreating from the world, which is nice if you want to break or whatever, but I have experienced The highest anxiety day of the year for me Was traditionally new year's day Because that's it this break is over and now I must get back to the business of not Being agoraphobic It's interesting. I thought about it this year This day be the last day of your sort of holiday. Yeah, and if new year's day fell on a saturday or sunday There'd be still another day or it's the anticipation as well But but it was the marking of this is it like that season between Thanksgiving and new year Where you where you got a little bit of a break and especially between christmas and new year Where the world gave everybody a break for the most part like oh i'm away for the week No one would question that i'm just not around for the week. Yeah That day was always a very very difficult day for me to deal with it's not anymore In fact, I thought about it this new year's day thinking like I'm gonna give a second thought anymore, but it was traditionally a very difficult day for me anxiety-wise because It would mean like okay Agoraphobic tendencies are not okay anymore starting tomorrow. So I gotta go back to fighting the fight. It was really difficult So just be wary of avoidance, especially, you know forced or unforced so she talks about you know If if like this you are you are not really afraid of wide open spaces or of the marketplace You know perfectly well that if you go to the corner store the grocer won't shoot you blah blah blah So what are you afraid of she says you are afraid of the feelings that arise within you when you're in this situation Feelings that seem to overwhelm you so that you seem unable to think clearly while they are present You don't trust yourself while while you are like this and this is why you're afraid to go out by yourself And I think that pretty much nails it. That's exactly what makes agoraphobia. You are afraid to go out because of how you might feel Yeah, yeah, and then she goes on to This is a good chapter because she she tries to do a bit of a guided if it was an audiobook She would be doing almost a guided exposure But yeah written in a written form here and she talks about imagining how she herself is taking you out of the house On an excursion of some kind and imagine what she would tell you to get you through it and it's pretty good But the point she makes is she starts with well, here's your very first mistake And I think if you're if you're dealing with agoraphobia right now You can totally relate to this before you've opened the front door. You've tensed yourself like a violin string So that's an anticipatory thing where before you even decide to go out the door You're you're all ratcheted up and ready to panic The anticipation just sort of is the destroyer of most things It is it's the destroyer of exposure to begin with so it stops people from even getting off the dime And it it just sets you up immediately for like I like to say it sets you up for failure But it sets you up You don't want to leave because you're afraid of how you might feel Well, when you start this way, it's almost guaranteed that you're going to feel shitty when you get out the door Yeah, yeah And she talks about if you're scared that you're going to feel anxious or I'm panicky Then by being anxious about being anxious, you know, it's just afraid to be afraid Yeah, you stop feel prophecy, you know, right like if I go out the door, I'm going to be terrified So I am terrified to be terrified and it makes sense But and I think this is not something that you can necessarily stop This is what you exposure is going to help you with this as well But acknowledging that because so many people will say to me like how am I supposed I can't even get out the door I'm afraid to get out the door. How do I do this? Well, it's supposed to be that way. You're going to feel that way A doctor we first mistake One of my biggest tips on on that is just to do stuff straight away like in the morning Or set a time and you go regardless of what how you're feeling or whatever and if you I've read quite a lot into anticipation anxiety and if you give yourself an out where you can go like Oh, maybe I'll go and maybe I won't depends. I'll feel at the time which used to be my slogan That actually just makes it so much worse Like you think that you're like, well, I'm giving myself an out so therefore I won't be as anxious They say that like all the studies and everything show that it actually does the opposite And if you just commit and you know that you go in right Regardless it actually kind of makes it easier and I promise it. It really does. It does I've done that with flights and all sorts like when I was really bad I was like, oh, you know, we had to fly South Africa. It's like an 11-12 hour flight And I was just like, oh, what if I can't go at the end? Will you still to my husband like will you still go like I don't want your sort of trip to be ruined? Yeah, no You have to come right whether you like it and I was like, but what if I'm panicking on the plane? It's just like I don't care. Oh, well, yeah good for him. I don't care and I was actually like, okay And then I said, okay, so I'm going South Africa regardless and I was just like, yeah, okay. All right. Well, okay All right, there you go. All right. You have no out that way It weirdly just made everything a lot easier and I think it's that that's sitting on the fence between I will I won't I will I won't there's enough fear as it is already And that I will I won't I will I won't it just seems to exacerbate it makes it worse So I know for me, I guess everybody's routine is a little bit different What really helped me was just I would literally roll out of bed and immediately go out the door Like immediately, I mean, you know, just put on a hat and whatever like throw on whatever clothing I saw first It didn't matter. I wasn't going out to win a fashion contest. I was just I was just practicing getting out Yeah And getting in that habit which was hard the first few days But then it became a habit and there was no thinking about it It wasn't getting up eating breakfast sitting at the kitchen table thinking about I'm going to go out soon. I'm going to go out soon. I just did it immediately. That was a huge And watch what you said. I wasn't thinking about it, which is kind of floating. Isn't it like the doctor weeks floating kind of thing? Sure a little bit Not going to think about it. Just do it. But you make that commitment that says I'm going to go out the door I'm probably going to feel awful when I do this. I'm going to be terrified But I'm just committed to that. This is what I'm going to do tomorrow morning I'm going to be shared scared shitless like okay, and that's just what I'm going to do So I just didn't give myself any time to think about what was going to happen I would get out of bed and bam go right at the door which sucked in the winter when it was freezing and snowing But it was a huge I agree with you should not give yourself an out like do it as quickly as you can as early in your day As you possibly can so you're not thinking about like Talk to anybody whether they suffer from anxiety or not when they've got a flight that they have to catch And it's in the evening it is just the worst because you spend all day like Like even if you're not scared of flying or scared of anything like that It's just sort of like this thing that hangs over and by the end of the day like you really wound up, you know And for really no reason in the end. No, you know, I was at mark twain I just saw that in the forum somebody said the other day It was a really good quote most of the worst things that the worst things in my life never happened Yeah, that was a great great quote. I don't know who said that whoever if you were listening Thank you. That was a really good quote, but Not giving your time to yourself time to think about that was is really a key thing a real key thing So I'm a big fan of that for sure. Um But again, it takes that commitment. You have to be willing to do this first Yeah, so I highlighted one more one more thing in that paragraph She says if one so she says you tense before you even leave you've tensed yourself up like a violin string But you're all tensed up and she says if one plucks a taut violin string It will vibrate and make a noise But if you lose to the tuning peg and the string is slack, it doesn't make any noise. It doesn't it just lays there So that's a really good analogy because it's really good, isn't it right if you can learn If you could so almost the first exposure that you have to do in your agoraphobic is the exposure in anticipatory anxiety Even if your outings are very small or even almost not existent open the door and stand on the front step Is all you can manage that's fine But you will learn to relax in the face of the anticipation first So you almost have to expose yourself to the anticipatory anxiety and learn to You know go slack and relax into that First before you can learn to be relax in the supermarket or whatever your goal is So it's it's a really good analogy. I think it's just it's a really good point So then she you know, she talks about not making the first mistake You got to slacken those strings. You have to learn to relax So work on the anticipatory anxiety first. Just let it be there feel it Don't tense against it and learn to relax into it like we've been talking about And so what does she say the worst that can happen to you out there in the street? Or in the shop is that you can let yourself become frightened That's the worst thing that can happen is that you can allow yourself to be frightened But I think we have to clarify that and say she's not saying that the worst thing that can happen Is that you are afraid the worst thing that can happen is that you react to being afraid You allow yourself to be afraid of being afraid. I think that's what she really is talking about here Because you're going to be afraid. That's okay. It's expected in the beginning So, you know, she says I know how severe that fright can be But if you release as much tension as possible and be prepared to accept that You know, then it won't be quite so overwhelming So if I already know when I get in the car, I'm going to be freaking out Then I won't be surprised that I'm freaking out and it won't be I'm expecting it. I'm prepared for it I know it's going to happen. It's not a mystery. Just bring it and and it's not as bad suddenly Yeah, you know and and we've talked about this many times like The key the success and this is what you're dealing with panic attacks or agoraphobia The success is not measured by not feeling anxiety or fear. It's measured by how you deal with that And this is a good example that she's saying right here So I just I realized that That Christmas break that you're talking about exactly this happened to me this year So like because you know, I go and I'm working. I'm doing this I'm doing stuff and then suddenly like over the Christmas week because I had gig, you know all over But like there was about a week where I wasn't doing anything. It's just And then I was like, oh, I needed to go into Into Palmer into the city to go in buy a hat for a video shoot. It sounds ridiculous And I was up against the clock Um and and so suddenly I was just like so it was quite not a stressful thing It's quite a drive. I had to take the baby with me and suddenly I kind of was like, oh my god I'm feeling like anxious about this. What's this about and it was kind of like a weird sort of like I'm feeling like really Anticipation and and just sort of like but I was just like, well, I've just got to go and do it So I'll just like luckily I had to go and do it because yeah, we had to shoot like that evening sort of thing Okay Whereas if I think I didn't have to I would just be like, oh, I'll go tomorrow and get So I had to get in a car and I went and I'm shopping and it's in the mall and it's all like, you know Busy and Christmas tunes and you know, like it was just sort of kind of horrible molly sort of stuff and I was expecting I was expecting that I would feel okay later on and I still was feeling like a bit because I was still up against it Like I was just spending more and more time like not getting the stuff done that I needed to and so I was just like stressed really but it was coming out as sort of anxiety and um and I just think I just hadn't prepared. I just it caught me by surprise, you know, it's me and I was just like this is so strange I don't get anxious anymore Um, I don't really know the moral of the story is I just carried on and got the hat and then I went home And I was and then when I got home I sort of forgot about it and then everything was fine and then the next time I went to the shop It was fine again. It was nothing. It just sort of reminded me that like A while ago and episodes Like that, I guess would have been I would have read so much into it Like oh my god, does this mean I'm back at square one? Does this mean I suffer from anxiety again? And two, I probably wouldn't have gone or I would have found an excuse to not go like I don't really need a hat for the video So, you know, I mean like all sorts of things and um, and I think also what is just key to remember is that even when even people that don't suffer anxiety and stuff like Have stressful days where they don't feel great and to do stuff on top of feeling terrible is just part of like Living and I used to make this mistake of thinking everyone else who didn't suffer from panic disorder just felt amazing all the time Yeah, yeah, look at them in the town shopping in the rain. They're fine, aren't they? And just having a horrible day Money stress and this stress and all sorts of stuff going on. Look at them and their smiling faces. Yeah, and it's weird, isn't it? You just assume everyone else is fine and then not and I just think so much of I know like it's different thing But like the exposures and stuff like that going out and feeling horrible when you're doing stuff like that It's just so important to not it doesn't mean anything It just means you're like you're feeling awful and you can you go and do something and then And then later you don't feel awful. Do you know what I mean? I don't I'm not really explaining No, I well, I think, you know First of all, you had the Christmas week and you said you were just sort of home a lot and so yeah But people like us even you know and look I'm I'm everywhere now. It doesn't matter to me but If I'm not careful those tendencies will crawl back in so I think it's just an illustration of how Engrained those patterns can be Yeah, right. They really are ingrained and I think in the end, you know, we come from the factory You know programmed to seek comfort and safety. So Anything that isn't that becomes really easy to avoid So if we always have those triggers laying under us, you know to to understand like and and I think sometimes they're just These are just patterns. They're pathways that get wired in You know at some point and we can wire over them, but I don't know if we necessarily always You know always wipe out the old wiring So, you know when you talk about brain plasticity and the way we learn in neural pathways, you know You know, maybe some of those pathways are still there So when you get into a familiar situation, which is not a good situation, but it's familiar Just being home all the time You know, suddenly those pathways are lit a little bit more than the the newer ones to go go go pathways, you know So, you know really common and you're right. We we we ascribe so much like significance To every minute of how we feel and how our exposure was and what happened and how did I what did I say and How did I stand and how was I breathing and what did that person do and what did my husband or my wife do and And in the end it's just another day Like it's it's just another day and you know, we were talking before about just get out Like don't don't allow yourself and out. Don't think about it all day. Do it as soon as you can I used to try and think too like like your hat situation. Look, I can right now It's it's 11 a.m. On a saturday morning. It's going to be noon You know in 60 minutes no matter what I do and noon is going to happen Yeah, I can't stop noon from coming. It's going to come at 60 minutes from now no matter what I do so So I used to think about like I can go out the door and make some progress in the next 60 minutes And that noon is going to come and I'll be done. You know, I won't I'll have I'll have accomplished it I can rest I can retreat I would give myself all these like little pep talk Or I could just sit here like a lump and noon is going to happen Anyway, so how do I want to feel when noon hits? Do I want to feel like a failure or do I want to feel like all right? Well, it's noon just like it was going to be anyway and I did something good So there's so many different ways to that's so good and motivational not just for anxiety Which is anything like no matter what happens. It's going to be 7 p.m. Tonight no matter what happens I can't stop that from coming So what am I going to do in the time between now and then? Yeah, how am I going to feel when I get there? So if I have something crappy to do like shopping for a hat that I don't want to buy Well, you know, I can get to 7 p.m. Discover while I got my hat. I accomplished it. I'm good I checked it off my list or I can get to 7 p.m. Be pissed off because I didn't go hat shopping So which one do I want to be? Yeah That's the bane of my existence Wasn't even my music video when I hate your hat Anyway, let's go back to dr. Weeks. She It's all right. It's okay. This is why we do this So she takes you by the hand and she walks you out the door, right? So she talks about slackening the violin strings don't go out already tensed up and ready to panic And walking down the street and here comes mrs. X. I guess mrs. X appears to be her version of like the gossipy neighbor Yeah, and also, but here comes mrs. X. Yeah So it's like oh and you're scared the mrs. X is going to notice that you're all anxious and stuff And that's a bit like my sort of social like all people are going to see me panicking and she's just like People don't really think about stuff like that. She just thinks she's just excited to see you mrs X He hasn't seen you in ages because you've been in your house all the time That's what dr. Weeks says she says mrs X comes running over to you and you're like, oh my god She's coming over because she's gonna be like, what have you been or what are you doing? And she's just like, oh great. I haven't seen you in ages. Are you good? It's so good to see you Yeah, and I think mrs X serves two purposes in this little passage here She illustrates that number one that fear of like being judged or how oh my what is mrs x going to think about me now That she sees me doesn't really think about you. Thank you And rand, but I don't think about you. Yes I think sometimes what happens with people like us when we're in these anxiety states We're dealing with things like agoraphobia We get so wrapped up in ourselves that we think everybody's thinking about us guess what no one's thinking about you I hate to be the bearer of bad news But when I was stuck in my house like none of my neighbors or friends or co-workers or employees gave a rat's ass That I was like they weren't thinking about me. They just weren't so there's that and number two She uses mrs x as an example of Some of a trap so now you're out and you're in the street with dr Weeks holding your hands and here comes mrs x number one What is she going to think of me and number two? What if she wants to talk to me now? Yeah, and I can't escape I'm trapped. I'm trapped in the conversation with mrs x so She she gives a good example of like okay, so now she's excited to see you and mrs x starts blabbing at you With the neighborhood gossip or whatever she wants to talk about and your heart starts racing And she then dr. Weeks says, you know so what essentially so what and we talk about this all the time Does it matter if you feel your heart beating? It doesn't matter in the least right? It certainly doesn't matter to your heart like your heart doesn't care So she tries the example of like let mrs x talk chatter gag go for it And she says like your mom's like I've been beating the whole time. You hadn't noticed as well Exactly like hello. I'm just here doing what I do like I've been doing 51 years or however old you are it's your heart doesn't care it makes no judgment And so she talks about imagining her dr. Weeks and if you've ever listened to her audiobooks, you would hear her voice She sounds like somebody's grandma to me. She was she was older I think when she recorded and she has that adorable accent that everybody here in the u.s. Loves and um Australian but she didn't Think she sounds quite english right she does yeah, but um Yeah, she is a very like comforting like grandma's kind of voice But so she's she pretend she whispers to you like let let get relaxed take a breath chill out kind of thing And you know basically she talks about if you do that suddenly The minute you relax suddenly you don't feel as trapped as mrs x talks about like the mailman or whatever she wants to talk about So it's it's a good illustration of like, you know She what she's trying to tell you is see like mrs x isn't a trap. There is no trap. It was you upsetting yourself And when you let go upset you you upset you did right exactly So you you interpreted that situation as dangerous when it was not and if you let that go suddenly You're still not might might might be interested in the conversation But suddenly you don't feel like you're you know a gunpoint anymore So it's a really good illustration and that's the process. Yeah Yeah, I'll relax into it and everything gets better. Yeah. Yeah, every magically everything does start to get and it's so interesting, you know I've seen a bunch of those posts in our little discussion group on facebook and I'll put a link If you're not in the group request to join and come on in It's a great group of people and I've seen people make those posts over the past few weeks That like oh, I was out and I started to panic and I thought about it for a second and I just relaxed And suddenly it got better, you know in 10 minutes I I was over it and I was out You know still had my coffee or we finished shopping and they're just so excited that they succeeded And yes, she says it right here and this she's telling you like just relax. It'll get better almost instantly So what else does she do she starts taking us down the trip a little more crossing road? Yeah Jelly likes will still get you there That's exactly what I highlighted. That's you can't see it's all whiteed out But jelly legs will still get highlighted that exact thing. Oh my stupid little kindle here Jelly legs will still get you there if you will let them It's only a feeling not a true weakness and we've talked about this so many times She she goes into like the actual mechanism of adrenaline is going to change muscle tone and blah blah blah blah That's why your legs feel like jelly But so they feel that way but doesn't mean they are actually jelly Yeah, it's not like don't let that be the excuse to not continue to be like, oh, but you know My legs felt like they were gonna collapse. So I physically couldn't go on anymore Felt like It felt like it felt like and I've seen that too. I've seen those in many many discussions It felt like yeah, but felt like wasn't is like you did did you actually collapse? No, it just felt like I was gonna pass out Yeah, right. So running home doesn't make your legs any stronger Right I mean, if you think about it, why would go and home cure any of your physical Yeah, it's easy. I think you know what it's easy for us sitting here We can't stay joking with each other to say that and and I think A lot of people will probably say the same thing like If I always think if I can just get home, everything will be okay And then when you stop and analyze it, you're just like why because I'll Relax because yeah, oh few I'm home. It's just like why what does home give you? No, nothing And you know, even now I I sometimes will think that I was I happened to be out in the past week And I haven't really been sleeping well and anyway perfect for me perfect storm for heightened anxiety And you know, I I encountered a little bit of an issue while I was out and I stopped I had to pull over for a second and thought You know, I really had to give it think about this because I'm like I'm just gonna turn around and go home like and honestly and but I had to really stop and be honest with myself and say Why do I not want to do this task that I'm doing here? You know, like 45 minutes of sleep is not a lot of sleep. I'm exhausted. I really had to reason through that and say I just need to just take a break. I'm so tired So but otherwise the natural tendency is like I will feel better if I go to some safe place But like, you know, being home isn't going to make me physically feel any different than I already was so What's the difference? It doesn't matter where you are. Yeah I think that's quite a good thing to do is now every time if you if you're out on like an exposure or something and you're like And you're just feeding that like I just need to get this because that's the white knuckle in if you're like Just need to do this and buy my hat and then everything Like that is the wrong way to do it. You just need to sort of stop and think like what is it you're trying to get to the end of that you think will Be okay, you know, like oh once and then because once I've got it then I can go home and then it'll be okay like you need to sort of really like so every time you think like Okay, now I'm going to go home like just try and stop yourself and be like, why do you think that being at home will be Yeah, and just try and Sort of maybe just because it was probably maybe personal to each person even you know and just try and Reason it out a little bit to yourself What it is that you're going to gain at home and see how you can Give that to yourself like where you are, you know, like a little bit of it Yeah, this came up in discussion in the last week too. Um Like the death this is that's interesting I think so you deal with this applies not just to agoraphobia But just about all of this stuff put agoraphobia trying to get out of the house, right? You're trying to you're trying to deal with that There is no destination here like for me when you're trying to get past agoraphobia There is no even though by definition like well, I can't leave my house. So my goal is to get to Wherever like for me it was like wow, you know to get back into New York City, which is 40 miles away from me But in the end there really is no destination when you're overcoming your agoraphobia The destination is Is the panic like you need to go there And then it doesn't actually once you go there and you learn how to live there Then there is no more destination you in the middle of the desert Yeah, it doesn't mean you could be in a plane and the ocean on a cruise, you know Around the world in your bathroom and your home. It doesn't matter where you are So it's honestly an amazing when you realize that as well, isn't it when you realize like I don't mind where I am because I I know how to deal with me and that's fun. And then suddenly like it's not the things it's you realize it's you It's not the things around you. It had nothing to do with the airport or Yeah, she actually says this It's you I had to get over myself Forehands turn in the screw That's right in the end and and again that doesn't mean that she she or we are Blaming ourselves or blaming you if you're watching or listening Blaming you for being the situation But we have to take responsibility for our contribution to it because we are in control of that process That she even says like if you if you chill, you know, you cross you let yourself cross the road Don't worry about the jelly legs, you know, she says by now You know, you cross the road you made it and by now you're not quite so impressed by the tricks your body has been playing on So, you know, suddenly you begin and we've talked about this a lot when you unmask that fear as being baseless And it's a very empowering feeling like once you do that like oh wow, I made it and I was fine and that wasn't so bad after all So she does talk about in the next paragraph the full fear treatment And and and this could be true It's you're trying to get out of the house after being housebound for some period of time This is true too. I've experienced this you get out and within a given exposure even suddenly you feel like wow This is awesome. You're making all kinds of progress, you know, you're you're 10 15 minutes into it You think you're doing great and then all of a sudden she says in a flash You turn on all the screws at once and you give yourself the full fear treatment And it is as if you have made no progress at all just when you thought you were beginning to get the right idea And I think that happens on the macro level from session to session over days and weeks But it can also happen at the micro level within any given session Like what was great three minutes ago is just flushed right down the tubes Yeah, you know when suddenly you ratchet it up again, you start fighting and you're you're running from it again And all of a sudden it's like everything just went to crap And that can happen from minute to minute and she acknowledges that So it's so true and like because what can because what used to happen to me that'd be I'd write off Whole months. This is a bad month. This is a bad week And then and then like this is a bad day Like I'll just write this day off because I've had so many panic attacks today. This is a bad day Now it's like this is a bad three minutes. This is a bad minute. This is a bad 30 seconds. Yeah But and that's what actually when I was out in the mall to buy my hat I remember thinking to myself as I was driving home. I was just like, okay This has just been a bit of a a wish a wipe out of two hours But the rest of the day was great and we You know, and it was great and it was I didn't feel an ounce. So I didn't even think about it anymore anxiety Right, it wasn't a whole day affair anymore. No, and so and it maybe it's nice to hear that you can Like suffer anxiety and just be okay. Well, that was a bad hour, but the next hour is fine You know, yeah, it doesn't matter or or 10 minutes from now even could be fine again Yeah, I think the point here when she she acknowledges that this can happen Is you have to almost expect it. It might happen So even though wow, I was doing great and I've seen people say that like oh I was in I keep talking about the supermarket, but as an example I was in the supermarket for five weeks You know, yeah, and I was doing great and then suddenly I realized how far in this how deep in the store I was I oh my god, it was in the dairy section And and suddenly, you know, you realize what's going on you freak out and and you bail on it So I heard that happen, but it can happen It's just expect it to happen and the same principles apply No matter how tight you make those screws the same principles apply just untighten them Yeah, and also remember that if you do panic and then you or you know If you do freak out on the exposure and then you manage to sort of work through it and relax into it That's amazing. That's the that's the good. That's the win. That's the big exposure and you don't feel any anxiety Well, like good for you. I'm glad you had a nice time out Right, right other than maybe that you don't feel anxious as much as you think you do or something Sometimes I think it's even worse when because I see It sets the bar high and I've seen people get in that situation where it's You know, it's great. I've been out all every day this week and I've had almost no anxiety It's great and then they go out the next week and they have a panic attack and like oh that was all crap last week It was nothing I get really nervous when I see people report in how they've been anxiety-free for a few weeks or something Well, I mean it's I get what you're saying. It's good I mean you want people to have to feel good, of course Yeah, but you worry about then the expectation, you know, yeah To me I find it a lot a lot more Exciting I don't say exciting like nobody's job was to excite me, but I find it more More important when I hear somebody say like yeah, I kind of freaked out in the dairy section of the supermarket But you know, I just I relaxed for a minute. I got through it and I kept shopping or even somebody who says I ran out I got in my car, but then I calmed down and I went back in like those are the huge Improvement rewiring Yes, exactly. So that that's a big deal. So she does talk about let the storm pass um Wait, let the storm pass let the effects of adrenaline pass even at the climax of your fear surrender and accept So she talks about all that stuff at the very moment when you're feeling seem to engulf you That is the moment above all when you must surrender and accept No more. Oh my goodness. No more. What ifs and we've talked about this ad nauseam. We will continue to talk about it That the proof is in the pudding at that moment Not being anxiety free not and when you are at your worst when you could just let that happen With and just just bring it on bring the worst you can bring And it just fully accept that and just not care if that lasts for 30 seconds or 30 minutes You know, you have pretty much at that moment the first time you do that you literally have won this war You don't know it yet, but you have now won that war. You may lose some battles along the way But when you the first time you actually ever do that you you have won the war now It's over. It's now now that you just have to figure out that you won the war. So Yeah, yeah, it's it's really cool And she says if you go forward however hesitatingly Understanding it with an understanding of what's happening ready to accept all the tricks your fears may play upon you Your reactions will gradually come And and she's right. That's exactly what happens. So And she ends the paragraph. I know I'm skipping a lot. It's a short chapter But and she ends this paragraph, which I think is huge You will find peace in the middle of time square Because you will take your cure with you Wherever you may be and so if that speaks to so many things coloring books and rubber bands and mints and water And and your wife or your husband or your mom or your dad your girlfriend your boyfriend your safe person Your medications all of those things just they can all go away. Like you are taking the cure with you in your own pocket Yeah, everywhere you go It's it's life changing. It's Yeah, it's unbelievably Life changing that is Yeah, I think also if you get yourself better from panic disorder the rest of life seems like Really like you've cheated like you've got like some tools that other people don't know about and it's really cool Oh, yeah, yeah, it's I well, you know, I'll tell you flat out like I lived a very large portion of my life before the wheels fell off from me in the late 90s when things got bad for me Anxiety wise the first time I kind of lived in like an armor plated way like nothing I never got nervous. Nothing bothered me. I wasn't you know I never got nervous about work or anything or You know, I was a musician back then and I would get nervous about performing nothing like I was I was like ridiculous That's not normal, you know and and when I When I When things got really bad for me, you know, I medicated myself for many years I stopped taking it really bad because of the whole withdrawal thing Then I suffered, you know, I've had to learn to deal with it without the medication All I wanted was that guy back. I wanted that armor plated bulletproof guy back But you know what? I'm glad he's not there anymore because The lessons I learned dealing with this like there is nothing you can bring at me and at the moment in my life I have got a pile taller than me like right up here that I'm just holding up all the time Nothing, you know, because you just you just get that like that armor plated feeling, but it's an enhanced armor plating now Yeah, it's not this it's not a brain dead armor plating. It's a reactive armor plating like I can I understand stress I understand fear but I can absorb it and reflect it and use it and direct it into good places And it makes you like a freaking superhero So I highly I highly urge everybody to like overcome your agoraphobia because you will get to a level that you didn't think you had in your life I think this sounds ridiculous like old tony robbins like but You know, but it's true. You see you smile on your face. I think yeah, you know what I'm talking about Yeah, yeah, it's it's just like an elevated I don't know everything seems so easy to sort of You sort of see how everything everyone's been affected by their own Sort of stresses and stuff as well. And it's just seems so Sort of obvious what what's going on and do you know what I mean? And Suddenly you become like this wise person too Have you ever noticed that like like I'm just some goofball I you know, I'm no different than you or anybody else But like I guess the lessons we learn in this somehow you you people think you're so wise or Like I find myself saying things are reacting to like wow, I can't believe I actually said that like But that's the experience that I've gone through and just live experience. I'm you know Having gone through 50 years or whatever. So it's it's it's a thing And I think the other thing that it does and I don't know if you would so you're you're a performer You know, I think In some ways you you encounter the same stressors that like athletes do and and you hear all this time If you're a sports fan, you may have seen some of these things What made Wayne Gretzky like the greatest hockey player to ever ever play what made, you know Joe Montana the one of the greatest quarterbacks ever to play American football or whatever athlete you like and invariably One of those common threads seems to be Their vision in the field like they saw things happen before everybody else did And yes for them the game goes slower Than everybody else so even on an ice hockey game where everything is happening so fast Most people can't even follow the puck if they're in the stands watching much less playing for those elite players They perceive time slower And they're just calm and they can see things happening very clearly And they can react appropriately and do things that other people can't do because they couldn't see it I don't know if you have found the same and you're performing career But after going through what you have gone through do you feel more Like I know I do like the game life Happens slower sometimes So I get all the time is like wow this place could be burning down and You know until like my temper goes because I have a bad temper But otherwise like I get that all the time like no matter what's going on You're just like this and you just know what to do Like you know What I find really cool was just that freedom of like being able to go Anywhere in the world at any time. Do you know, I mean night day. Yeah other continents by yourself with people It's like suddenly it's like oh my god, like there's no situation that I Will avoid like avoid because it makes me anxious about do you know what I mean? Like, um, yeah, kind of really fearless So I found like just an absolute fearlessness sort of but in a way where you I don't know or where you sort of I don't know you just understand yourself so much more and how you're reacting to it and Yeah, and just kind of do anything you want really that's what I found I think It's true and I think only because she mentions it here. She even says I'll give you one more, you know She talks about Take yourself by your by the hand So in this chapter she wants you to visualize her taking you by the hand and taking you through an exposure But then she says but in the end you have to learn to take yourself by the hand and it will never fail you If you follow it and follow it until you learn to take yourself by the hand until you are your own guide and your own strength And in the end that really is what gets you past agoraphobia. You will learn to you will cure yourself Your doctor won't do it your psychologist your psychiatrist your mom your dad your boyfriend your girlfriend No one else will do it. You will do it. We won't do it. The book won't do it a pill won't do it You will do it Yeah, and I find that really empowering. Hell. Yeah No, it's a great word and and you know and sometimes I think when I Sometimes I take a kind of a hard line especially with people who I mean you see who I interact with online sometimes in the groups That we are in together And I do take a little bit of a hard line like hey stop feeling sorry for yourself Stop just stop the what if stop comparing symptoms like I truly believe that everybody came from the factory with that inside them We all have it And I would love if everybody experienced the same thing that you're talking about that I'm talking about That other friends of ours who have overcome this are talking about like it's a great great great thing Like your life doesn't have to be stuck in your living room It doesn't really doesn't have to be I don't know if she would mind me saying this but one of our friends who was also an admin of The panic disorder group who lost her father recently Yes She messaged me and said that she and I was like how are you doing? You know after your like the sort of father passed away and she said do you know what? I've found that if I accept the symptoms of grief It's it's okay. Like I mix like and it's kind of like the same thing as the anxiety like so she's not saying she's fine She's obviously like very upsetting breathing But she's saying But she's expecting to feel it and she's accepting those feelings and she said and somehow it just makes everything a lot Better, you know that she yeah, so she's actually like I'm doing okay because I'm accepting That I'm feeling horrible. You know, she's going to feel sad and devastated and empty and all those things Absolutely, but yeah, she's not fighting it Exactly, and I think that that's such an amazing Lesson, you know very healthy She's got herself over anxiety through the same the same way and so now she can apply it to other Parts in her life and and I think that's really She's particularly awesome. Amazing. I don't think she would mind. Yeah, I love her. Um, Yeah, she's great and I think that's true. So that she applied her lessons And you know what that apply or this is beyond the scope of the agoraphobia discussion But especially here in the u.s. Where we're just prescription crazy Um We like to medicate being human here in the u.s. Yeah, at least we have for the last 20 years or so 20 something years So like oh, I got divorced. I was depressed. Here's here's some anti-depressants. My dad died. Here's some anti-depressants lost my job Here's some anti-depressants like we sort of forgot that Medicating humanity is might not be a good idea. Yeah, and humans aren't programmed to they're not supposed But you're not supposed to just feel amazing all the time. It's okay to not feel amazing or something I was trying to tell and rhyme myself off when When I was like recovering it's just like I just assumed everyone else was fine all the time and they're not No, they're not They're doing terribly a lot of I mean, you know what and I think the difference is It was I think we I don't know if you and I have talked about it or Billy and I've talked about it Some with somebody or on my own But like for me, I remember sitting in the car a very specific morning One of those mornings when I just rolled out of bed and got in the car And I drove around for a while very close to my house But it was just more about time than distance for me in the beginning And I remember sitting in the parking lot of a little shop that's right near my house And people were pulling up next to me and they were getting out of the shop and going in and Buying whatever they were buying and I remember looking there was a woman who had parked diagonally for me And I was just sitting in the car and I remember looking at her and she she pulled up into her parking spot And she just sat there and she was rubbing her eyes And she just looked like the last place she wanted to be was in that parking lot going into buy orange juice Whatever the hell she had to buy that day And I remember the light bulb going off thinking like she probably didn't sleep last night Who knows what is going on in this woman's life right now. She does not look happy. She doesn't want to be here What's the difference between me and her? You know, I may actually have a better life than her right now It's possible You know, and it really made me think about that and I that's when I started using other people complete strangers as models To a certain extent, you know, and I would go out and do my exposures I would literally look at complete strangers and say like well that guy Let me imagine that he didn't sleep at all last night. Maybe he just lost his job Maybe he just his dog just died or something terrible just happened. I didn't want that to be But and he's still just walking through the supermarket buying milk Or he's standing waiting in line at the bank or he's going off to work today like everyone else does and It was hugely liberating to do that too. So There's so many lessons that you can learn when you go down this path and and You know when this war you win the war whatever you want to call it But yeah, you know, the other thing that I would probably say and what we could start to close on a little bit I don't know how you think about this, but I hear all the time I use those hear those motivational words like warrior and you know, we're warriors W. A. R. R. Not warriors warriors, you know, like, yes Warriors Well, we are warriors, but I guess What, you know warriors and this will beat everyone to their knees. They don't understand how we're so strong We're this with that. You know, like those are all good things. I don't get me wrong. I'm all for that you know, I'm as caveman as the next guy, but To a certain extent, I think that's so much deeper than that You know the the ability to learn to be soft and analytical Yeah, and take things in and then reflect them back out or direct them More so than you know that concept of like I'm just going to draw my sword and hack and slash and burn through the Zegoraphobia. Yeah, there's some of that, but it's it's a lot deeper than that So it's it's worth taking the trip man. Just just start today Like start today. It's like you're I really like your analogy of the the tree like you spend don't you bend, but you don't bring It's so important that it wound up right here It's actually on my shoulder. This tree is bending in the wind. It's so important to me that it's the central part of this piece Like yes, so and that tree it bends but it does not break Because if you're so strong against something and it comes up against you and you're like not get like it can Break you whereas if you just Yeah, you just bend over that, you know and and it's just it's a better way to live Because I think that bending thing also uses less energy You know in a way like all right, I can I can dodge, you know Like the matrix, you know when he was dodging the bullets Like it's a whole lot better than trying to block them and absorb the energy just let them go past you so Yeah, it's I think that fight is really like but it has to be like very concentrated into a very tiny bit which is Going out the door or do you know what I mean? Just like that No, I'm gonna go and it comes down to like literally a millisecond of it like a decision in your brain of just like No, I'm gonna do I'm going Yeah, yeah, I think you're right That's that's that fight and you have to compress it down to this like tiny just moment and as soon as you've made that decision You just go with it, you know, that's a really that's really solid. That's actually very very true So the warrior the strength there or the slashing and burning with the sword the torch Is about tiny concentrated moments of intense strength Where you're forward and push back because there is pushback It's not all about being soft not all the time But the the time when you gather up that strength from inside you when you push On that thing and you you push back on it or you're right. That's the moment that you walk out the door That's the moment you turn the key and I'm going back in the supermarket And that's that thing when sometimes it's part of my friends. You just fuck it, you know And literally I'm writing a chapter entitled that one of this book that I'm working on now Like everybody that goes down this journey has had if you have not had the effort moment You're not on the journey yet And that moment has to come like and you will push back at that and that's it And but then once you've made that push and you broke through that barrier Then you're going to go soft again and just let it come until it's time to push again for a second but I don't know if you've ever experienced like um Like we used to climb up this sort of waterfall thing and then like jump in and it would be really like scary If you like stood on the and if you stood on the edge for too long like man, no one jumped Yeah And so like you're standing there and and you kind of thinking that but what if I hit this rock and what and you know that You can make the jump really, you know And at some point you will not jump unless you just go fuck it and you just stop thinking about it and you just go Yeah, well, whatever happens happens, but fuck it just step off the the ledge Yes, like and that's that thought of you those leaps of face that we have to do Of like, yeah, I'm fuck it. I'm going out the door. I'm getting on that plane I'm going out and even if it's like not the actual physical thing But it's just that making the decision and sticking with it stick to your plan, you know, yeah, that takes a lot of courage In that tiny moment, but it's also just like a and okay, fuck it. I'm just thinking about it and just You know Decision and going with and that's that first time you step out the door after being housebound or The first time that you truly accept when that that that worse panic you can think of that fear comes Just rises up through you and it's boiling over and you just like all you want to do is run and you're convinced that this is the end That is a fuck it moment to like, okay Bring it right. I would rather you fucking kill me here Then go backwards like at some point you get to that and and that's you know If you're gonna kill me you better kill me right now like this And so we all have those moments and we have them in little micro bursts while we're doing our exposures And we have them in very large epiphanous moments when we are starting ready to think I had to do that when I was young You know going back to school and all that sort of stuff and the end I just had to say Fuck it. If people see me having a panic attack. I don't actually care anymore. I don't care. I just learned not care which um probably is why I then became like a performing musician because I just don't like did I mean you have to put you putting yourself out there all the time to this Criticism that you think you have been when anxious and you're like no one's actually criticizing you to then Every time you step on stage, you know, you're putting yourself up to People go in brew. That's rubbish. That's the worst son. I've ever heard right potentially, you know and so like you just drive yourself crazy if you Focused on all the negative responses that you could get so at some point you've just got to go Care what they think I'm just going to get up on the stage and do my thing You know, I'm just going to go into my school classroom and Do my thing and if that means having a panic back in front of people that means having a panic attack in front of people It is by the way, I don't care anyway Could not care less not in the least been interested. It's so funny that there are we're going really long here We'll wrap it up. But I there are videos that I found on youtube There's one a couple of famous ones. There's a there's a bunch of them out there Of celebrities who obviously have a panic attack in public. There's an american I didn't even know the guy's name is american newscaster. He was you know, one of our major news networks I've never seen that one Right exactly And you know and you could see it in his face they go back to him and he just he just that's it He can't talk. He's and you know exactly what is what's happening And I often wonder when I've seen those videos like just the rest of the world like the normal world Do they care so much like those 2 million views? My gut tells me that 80% of those 2 million views are people with panic disorder Like everybody else doesn't really care that the guy had a panic. They can't relate to it It's like they don't think anything of it. It just is what it is It doesn't actually look that interesting anyway, does it? No No, he just right he sort of freezes and you could tell he's a little bit, you know agitated but You know that in his head It's like Like you know freaking out Well, those of us who've experienced it can look at the guy and understand what's going on But I think the rest of the world would just look and say boy It looked like he just got like stage fright or something. You know, it's there's nothing no major deal So yeah, there's so many things to get over but it's worth it So I think the way we should probably, you know I know I've said it about a million times in the last five minutes or so But like if you're watching this or listening to this and you have not left your house In a while and you are just upset with yourself and you think it you don't want to be like that anymore than What I you know what I say like start right now. I don't know what time it is and what day it is where you are watching You're listening No, there's no Builds as well. Just go. Okay. I forgot. I'm gonna go now. I'm gonna right And I know that happens I've heard that too like I watched your video and it inspired me to do this or that But and so I'll temper that by saying if you've been housebound for the past month, you know Don't get in your car and drive 60 miles from home Psyced up that will backfire on you But at a minimum like do something that makes you uncomfortable right now start right now right this very minute and You know, it's worth it. It's well worth it. So that was um, the last note I made was just with the exposures Just to do them little but often, you know, like yes, yeah Just it doesn't have to be just once a day 20 times a day doesn't often as you possibly can just as often as you possibly can and like little but Yeah, definitely not too big like because so I went from You know like eight months at at home unable to even step outside my door I couldn't even go to the garden gate, you know, my dad was like just come on the garden gate and I just I mean I could but I couldn't right wouldn't and um, so then the idea of me going like oh, yeah I'll just go back to school then, you know Would have been insane. So it was like gradually gradually gradually and in the end I just I started going to just registration which was like 20 minutes in the morning I didn't even do a full lesson and then I'd come home And then you know a couple of weeks of that and then I would do one lesson and then come home and and then Within about four weeks. I was fully back at school Which was my guess would be that once you got to the point where you could say do three lessons Getting to seven was not that big a jump The jump from the 20 minute registration to the first two lessons was huge But the lesson but staying two periods to seven periods not as huge So yeah, and that's a thing. So yes start small Just as long as you feel uncomfortable, then you're doing it right So just whatever makes you feel uncomfortable is where you start and just do it as often as possible Tiny little steps forward every single time and next thing, you know, like holy cow You're at the garden gate next thing, you know, right? So yeah, yeah, it happens And you'll feel good and all of a sudden your life won't feel like crap anymore Like you're moving forward and that just take that fight and just compress it into the tiny moment of making a decision And then soften and relax and just let it happen And you'll learn your plan let it happen Yeah And I think you'll learn too like when it's time to fight and when it's not time to fight Like you get good at knowing like oh, this is one of those moments where I got to be strong You know and then you do it and then go soft again. So yeah But it's like anything else you have to learn to do you have to learn that also so don't don't There's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that goes into it Just don't start right now take a lot of tiny steps all the time And just don't judge yourself harshly for feeling anything you feel it's all correct So yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's the deal All right, so we will try not to wait weeks and weeks between these we'll try and schedule chapter 9 for next week if possible and And here's a nice the positive thing is chapter 9 is be in yourself again She's talking about the better stuff, right So yeah Be in yourself again. Yeah. Yeah. So very good All right, so I guess that's it. Thanks for stopping by for chapter 8 this marathon session We've been going for quite a while now and uh, this is by the shortest chapter as well I know I just well we got off on a bunch of tangents, but I think it was all good So that's fine. And um, yeah, we'll see you guys next time if you're so how to get to us I always have to end that way right my my website that anxiety guide calm Facebook twitter all this that anxiety guy all the time joined the discussion group holly's involved too. So Asked questions and it's been the bed. I think that's the best place if you can You can comment on the video and I will answer, you know, holly will chime in I guess when she can but Um, really the facebook discussion group has been the best place to actually bring up questions Because then other people see your questions and there's some other really really good people in there as well Yeah, some solid people who are further down the road who are lending their experience and it's really great I'm very appreciative of that. So all right folks. See you next time Ta ta