 ...chys that I now by the director general of the Institute of Economic Affairs Mark Littlewood.... ...and Fran Boyce the director of Positive Money. Very good evening to you both. Fran Boyce, positive money? Was it a positive budget? Excuse me. Well, I think first and foremost it was a dishonest budget. The Chancellor said they'd end austerity, Theresa May outlined it in her conference speech... ...and it was nothing of the sort. After the more, you know, the Chancellor was dishonest in his statement around Iralia being this a necessity rather than an ideology when clearly economists around the world including IMF have said its bad economics. And I think it's really important to put this budget into context. 10 years ago we had financial crash and rather than reforming the finance se Seit only was unbalanced and broken we had the coalition coming in 2010 and do undertaking severe austerity decimating. ond, o'r byddiad gweithio, nifer o'r cyfrannu ffiyloedd, 14 oedaf ymwybodol, 8 oed yn ymdodol, gan gennym ni'n cyfrannu dystyddiaeth o bwysig hefyd, cyfrannu bwysig hefyd. Yn ymdyn nhw'n defnyddio'r bwysig hefyd o'r byddiad yn y U.K. ar y ffrindiau 100 yr ysgol, o'r dechrau ffordd yn cael eu pwysig ac mae'n cyfrannu i'r osteridau. Mae'n osteridau, mae'n oed yn cyfrannu i ddweud, ac mae'n oed yn cyfrannu i ddweud. Weíll follow that up as we step in the right direction when we will get any of ourizes足? I want to get your thoughts up Mark Littlewood. Even if you think that austerity is ending presumably you donít really see that now. This is government spending. Whoís austerity would be my question. We have seen cuts in public sector spending, very modest cuts, which is fair to say. Public spending is going to rise again under this Chancellor. Thatís what they mean by austerity, yw'r gwaith o ffordd, oherwydd, sy'n credu cyffredinol iawn ar y cwmpwysig, sy'n credu bod ymweld i'r cyffredinol. Rydyn ni'n gobeithio'n cwmwysig ar gyfer o gaelwyd yn cyffredinol cyffredinol. Felly mae'n cael ei wneud ify fydd yn y cyffredinol cyffredinol, oherwydd, o'r cyffredinol cyffredinol. Roeddwn ni'n cyffredinol i gaelwyd yn cyffredinol i ddechreu. Roeddwn ni'n cyffredinol yn gyffredinol i gaelwyd ar gyfer o'r cyffredinol. Fe wneud o'r ddweud o'r ddweud i'w fath o'r ddechrau. Ond, dweud y cyfrannu yr cyfrannu o'r gwaith o'ch gweith. Dyn ni'n ei ddweud o'r olygu o'r ddweud o unrhyw o'r ddweud y cyfrannu, ddweud o'r gweithio'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'u ddweud. Yr hyn I'n gwybod, rydyn ni'n ei ddweud hynny. Rydyn ni'n go iawn i'w arni ni'n gwneud ar hynny, Onllwysgol, nad eich gweithio o'r rhwng o'r dweithio, y peth ganddoedd wedi bod yn digad o'r ffaith hon, yr ysgolion a'r gweithio'r pethau. Rwyf am unrhyw gweithio'r byddau hwnnw cunting mae'n gofio maen nhw newydd 32 miliwn. Felly'n gweithio'r cymryd o'r ddweithio ddoedd rydym yn meddwl gydig i gael ychydigai'r 10% i gael gndorol pa ydyn ni, ond byddwn gwneud hynny, ond, mwy fyddo gennym ymddydd, Are you really really scary statistic in terms of inequality crisis housing crisis on our hands so to be actually making tax changes that will benefit the most wealthy people in this country doesn't feel like a budget and for the more simply you know that we're going to continue with the public sector pay camp we're going to continue with austerity for pretty much everyone in this country so we're not actually seeing The questions are how you spend the government debate but the public spending is going up Rwy'n ddigonio y gallwch yn cwrwm ar ddafyn nhw a'r ddwfyn nhw a'r ddweud nhw'n ddweud nhw a'r ddweud a'r ddweud nhw a'r ddweud. Ydych chi'n gweithio'r cwrwm oherwydd ei gwasanaeth iddyn nhw? Rwy'n ddigonio'r ddweud, dyma'n ddigonio'n dweud i chi'n dweud mwrthu ac yn hanfrwg i'r studi a'r dweud a'n dweud, Interesting, several of the measures in the budget. Join in here because the debate is whether austerity really is over, what's your take on it? I think the budget is a bigger deal than most people are expecting. I think it makes a significant easing of austerity but not an ending of austerity. That's true both on departmental public spending where we see it in a large amount of extra money put into the spending envelope. felly fyddechrau'r bach yn ynddangos ar gyfer y ffordd yng Nghaertyn Llywodraeth. Rwy'n credu rhoi'r ffordd ar gyfer ymweld, yw'r gweithio ar gyfer y ddweud ar gyfer y Gwyrddol Llywodraeth yn y ffordd yng nghymru. Felly mae'r gweithio am 3% yn cael 3, a felly mae'r ddechrau'r bach yn ei gweld y Llywodraeth yn ychydig i'r gweithio ar gyfer y gweithio ar gyfer y Gwyrddol i'r llun yn cyhoedd yr unedol. Felly mae'n £1.7b, ... ac the benefit-free Wales that is going ahead this April will still go ahead. That is an idea. Well, from what we take that on... ... that point is a step in the right direction. Particularly that large sum for the NHS. I think so but the point is it's been delivered under an umbrella of ending austerity. It is doing very much not that. You know the Conservative government is incredibly out of touch. We saw last week at PmQ's at Torrey MP Richard Graham citing things... bod yn gweithio sy'n gallu arddangos y cysyllt yn yng Nghymru a'r oesteraeth a'r tynnu yng nghymru, a yma'r gweithio yng Nghymru? Mae'r ddweud yn gweithio'i ddweud yn y dda'r ystod, ac mae dweud y ddweud yn rhoi wahid o'r oesteraeth a'r oesteraeth yn roedd yn gweithio'r oesteraeth. Yn dweud yng Nghymru, mae'n gweithio'r gweithio yn y ddweud yn dweud. Mae'r ddweud yn dweud, mae'r ddweud yn dweud. Mae'r chyfnodd yn siarad, fel y cyfnod ar y cyfnod o Brexit, ac mae'n edrych yn ymweld â'r ffordd ffysgol yn y sprig, yn y cyfnod, ac mae'n oestrwyddiad yn y cyfnod. Felly, dywed yn ymddangos yn ymweld â'r oestrwyddiad. Dyna'n gweithio wel y rhan o'r ffordd o'r cyfnod ymlaen i'r hynny, yn Llyfrid Pannadau a'r Cyfnod George Osborne. Mae'n ffordd o'r hun, mae'n symud o ffordd o gyfnod o'r cyfnod. Ond hoffa'r cyffredin nhw'n meddwl o'r ffordd ar y cael eu gweld yn ymweld gyda'r 1.6 a'r 1.3 amgylch. Mae'n meddwl iawn yn yw'r mewn gweld yn ymddiolol. Oni'n meddwl i'ch meddwl i'r meddwl yn bryd yn brydyn nhw, o bobl yma o'r 1.5% y bydd y mwylo. Felly allwn ni'n methu'r problemau yn lleonidol yn ei ddeudydd, byddwn ei wneud eu cyffredin nhw'n meddwl i'ch meddwl i'r meddwl. Mae'r sgw factoryn fydd yn gweithio kreditoedd rydyn ni'n gweithio'r ffordd o'r bwysig. Yn yw oes bod y chanslen oed i'n gweld ffath o'r parweth o'r bwysig o'r ei fath. Mae hyn yn ceisio y tîm chi ymddangos ei fod yn meddwl i'r fath o'r gweithio arall. Mae ei ddau y cwestiwn oedd yma arno i amserion yw dyna'r sphysgwriaethraethol ysbyty. Mae'r deater a'r ddaeth wedi rhoi'r ysbyte? Rydym wedi'ch gair o'n oed i gweithio.しw businesses greens go on right now a in the United States. Segwyd Wych hairy tax cuts, tax cuts rlyk unbelievable will spend it cuts by seeing a lot of physical stimulus into economy and we're wrestling with the complexity and uncertainty it and they're not and those are the two remind driving low growth becomes the UK right now but mark is right that there long-term challenging facing Britain is slow productivity growth. Driving both slower earnings growth which even on these forecast winner situation today the chance error is on the stand reasons given recent politics but is championing the yn y fath o'r cyfan o'r f насedl iawn ar gwynhau gwyrdd, fel y fleeingol. You must not take that for granted for the confidence this seems to us at the time. The sense that you're going to be talking of some sort of a skip a step in the right direction. This sign of starity might be starting to be over, but it sounds to me that you can't keep this up if those growth figures come in, even if they come in a bit shallower. Who knows if Brexit, if there is no deal. There's a fair critique, which is almost where the Labour Party's semi-getting to to for different reasons, which is the Chancellor has significantly increased spending, used that to significantly reduce austerity in the coming years, but he's done that on the back of better public finance forecast rather than on the back of tax rises. Now, there is something in that. All I would say is a good chunk of why the OBR's revised up its public finance forecast is not some forecast mumbo jumbo. It's because tax receipts have come in stronger than we expected over the last few months. That is real money in the bank and real money out of the bank. The Chancellor has spent it. He didn't use it to pay off there. 97% of the money came in and it went straight out of there. I was on the air on Sky News in July talking about the NHS when we already have had this news. The bigger point here is we're facing such a multitude of challenges. We've got Brexit. We're likely to crash out with a no deal. We've got housing crisis and inequality crisis. Austerity continues. This really needed to be a bold vision for this country's UK economy in the next few years. Obviously we're leaning to borrowing and taxing. How much do you think he should have gone for? I mean, I think that when he says end austerity, he should actually mean it. You should do things like stop universal credit when it's actually making people homeless right now. We should think about how we need to invest in this country's infrastructure. There were some small welcome things, end to PFI. It was good. But really, when you look at the challenges we're facing, it wasn't big enough. But in the face of all the uncertainty, would borrowing such a huge sum, would that be entirely wise? Borrowing to invest is what we need to do. Also, actually, in terms of where we're at, in terms of employment, we're under employment, we need to invest in this country. By just saying actually we're going to tinker round the edges. The Chancellor is squeezing out of the economy pretty much the maximum you can get in tax. So we're going to squeeze out about 38% or so of national tax. I mean, that is ridiculous. But that is definitely ridiculous. I mean, lots of countries around the world, you can have an odd good about that level of tax. It is definitely not the maximum. Lots of developed countries have to get more, some have a bit less. But if you look over the last 50 years, you can't get much more out of the act. We haven't tried or we've never got it higher on the left wing governments, right wing governments, minority governments, majority governments. This is God for the Termins. You're going to get the last word, friend boy. So you think it could go higher? I mean, I think we've just got to have a conversation with what we want this country to be in the next 10 years. And we don't want it to be a high debt and unequal place, which is where it's going. I mean, you know, I think that the economics paradigm is changing and we could be doing interesting things. I represent positive money. We've actually spent £475 billion that the Bank of England has created on keeping asset price inflation high in pumping financial markets. There's no reason that couldn't be going into these things. It needs to be a bit more creative. Good to see you, friend boy. Thank you very much.