 And I believe we are live. Hi everybody, this is George Kau. I am here with my friend Amelia Vogler. She is the director of the Healing Touch Professional Association. You should all check it out, htprofessionalsociation.com. Dot com. Dot com. And she was generous enough to say, George, you just launched your book, Authentic Selling. Maybe we can have a conversation around that and this will benefit my audience and your audience. And so that's what we're here to do. So hi, Amelia. Hi, George. So nice to be here with you. Yeah. The last time I saw you was just almost a year ago in your city when we were having dinner. Absolutely, that was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was. You're gonna come back. George, I just want to take a minute and acknowledge you for your work because I work with a lot of people as a professional association. We bring people in time and time again around business support, training programs. We do a lot of advanced education for energy medicine. And George, you're really special in your approach. And just want to acknowledge you for stepping in and through your virtues. You know, the highest virtues that we bring into our work. And finding you and finding the ability to find those virtues in our marketing, that it's what we were looking for, what we were looking for. And so this professional association is filled with healers, healing touch professionals. And so we're looking for people who line up with our virtues and our core principles and, you know, foundations. And so I think, you know, it was just a really huge gift to find you. I appreciate that. Well, I have so enjoyed interacting with the members of the Healing Touch Professional Association where, you know, in the group calls and, you know, and afterwards I had some, a chance to work with some of the members. So that was really great. Yeah. That's great. Well, George. So just for those people who don't know what you do or how you do it specifically for my group, you know, can you share a little bit about what makes your marketing approach different? Authentic marketing, I think is what you call it. Yeah, exactly. And this new book that I just wrote is called Authentic Selling. And, you know, marketing and selling, I'll just, there are some differences in what those two things mean. But for the sake of this conversation and make it simple, it's the act of allowing the right people in the world to discover our presence and our message, the benefits of our work so that they can actually use our business, use the services and products we provide to move their life forward. You know, that's really what marketing and selling at the core is. And to do it authentically, to me, it means to have an alignment between our values, our stated values and how we're doing our marketing and our selling. So what I mean is a lot of times, what happens is we say, I love, Amelia, that you said our higher virtues, bringing that into our work. Because we say that we are about healing. We are about wisdom and love and truth and generosity and compassion. And yet when we do marketing and selling, a lot of the times we're learning from experts who are coming from a more, I mean, for lack of a better word, like a more, like a mercenary way of doing things where the focus is almost entirely on the transaction instead of on the relationship. And as people who believe in the importance of spiritual growth and healing, it's all about relationship. Relationship with our clients and relationship with our, you know, our higher self or our spiritual source. And so authentic marketing and selling is the alignment of our values and our behavior. And so what that means is if we believe in relationship, then our marketing needs to improve the relationship with our audience rather than force something, force them to buy something or force them to even want something. And the forcefulness, I think, and of course, and healing, I'm sure that's something that you guys talk about too. It's not about forcing anything on anybody because we can't even force healing on others. We, it's a partnership, right? Like we can't make them heal, right? They have to want healing too. So the same thing about marketing and selling, if we, all of us, all of us have experienced it, whether it's reading somebody's email sequence to us or whether it's on being on a call with a potential provider for us, we have felt that pressure. We have felt that sense of forcefulness that doesn't feel right. It feels like they have an agenda that they're not totally being upfront with us about. And so naturally, the way that most of us interact with salespeople is we are naturally doubtful and protective of our space and of our energy because we feel like we want to, we have to be so careful that we don't give away our free will that, oh, I gotta make sure I make the right decision for me because I know the salesperson or the marketer, they are just thinking about their own agenda and their own profits and they might just be seeing me as a means to that end. But when we do authentic marketing or selling, we are saying, okay, let's return to the heart of service. Let's return to the importance of relationship. And then from there, we connect to that person in service and in relationship. And when we do that, it's very natural that the person starts to trust us because the trust is earned. And when the trust is earned, we can better understand the other party. Let's say we are the provider and we have a prospective client in front of us. If our purpose is to serve them and to build a good relationship, no matter if the transaction is done in this session. And that's really, really key. Just like, well, that's the definition of non-forcefulness. It's like you're flowing with life and we're flowing with the energy of this relationship and this interaction, whether or not a transaction happens. And we're actually trying to sense into the energy of the other party to say, well, is this the right person that I should invite into the energy of my business, essentially? Because every client that we serve actually affects the energy of our business. And sort of, are we wanting to invite that energy into the space of our business? So we are as much, in a sense, we are as much interviewing our potential clients as they are interviewing us. And sometimes we forget that. And so when we come to it with a sense of, is this a relationship that I should take forward into a business relationship, becoming a client or buying this thing or selling this thing? And how can I best serve this person? Is my product or service really the best thing for this person at this time? And when we can honestly say yes to that, there is a natural upwelling of excitement and joy to say, oh, I would love to work with you. I really believe that I can help you. This is a situation I've seen before. This is a situation that I'm passionate about, helping to heal. And if that's the case, then it's a joyful invitation. And the prospective client can sense that. And of course, it's up to him or her to say yes or to say no and not at this time or whatever it may be. But whatever they say, of course, we are in service to them. So we need to, if they're ready, they are going to say yes. They're going to be excited too. And if they're not ready, then they have felt that we have tried to be in service to them and they will go away having good thoughts about us, well-deserved, kind of good energy. Oh, that was, that felt right. That felt good. And very often they will come across a friend. And if they said, even if they said no, even if they say, oh, not at this time, they'll come across a friend or a colleague later and they'll think of us because that friend or colleague could use our services. So I know that's never a large nutshell. That's kind of the energy behind authentic selling. George, let me ask you something. When did this idea come into your consciousness? And let me tell you why I'm asking. Because I'm sure, or I'm making an assumption, which is not polite, that you've heard the expression as above, so below. When we match our spiritual qualities with our Earth characteristics and we walk through that bridge, and less familiar is the phrase, as within, so without. Have you heard of that? As within, so without. The other part of our balance between spiritual living on this planet. And when I was hearing you talk about the alignments between our inner core, our inner beingness, our inner voice, what we believe to be true of who we are and how we are in service to the whole. I was seeing also that bridge, and I think you're talking about relationships and coming back into that co-creative, expanded partnership relationship in business. And that's what's surging up underneath in the global consciousness. And so I'm curious, did something happen in your life that was an awakening? Was there some pivotal moment where you stepped into your life and you said, you know, this doesn't resonate with me because you were talking about resonance, about when we resonate with our potential client, our future client, the person who's sitting with us and we're listening, you know, you're tapping into those energy principles of resonance. So I'm just wondering because I sense that there might be a shift in your story. One of those, you know, what do they call them? Axiom moments, Axisite moments. Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah, well, we're live, you know, I thought I'd catch you with the personal one on live. No, it's a perfectly good question. So I think for most of my life, I have wanted to do good for the world and probably everybody watching this really has that same core intention to be of contribution to the world. I think human beings, when we're well rested, when we're well fed, when we feel loved, we want to give back and be a value add to the world instead of some kind of an extractive relationship to the world. So I think I've always had that, and what happened along the way is I think I've absorbed some of the mainstream world's values of competition, success. I put success in quotes because I think we need to define our own definition of success, right? Success isn't necessarily what others put on us of you got to make lots of money. You've got to, you know, become famous. Better than other people or, you know, however, and I think along the way, I did absorb some of those values. And so when I started my business close to 10 years ago now, I was in that mode of success and making more money and getting clients. Even that idea of getting clients seems like what does that mean? Getting them, you know, instead of relating to them instead of blessing them instead of loving and caring for them, you know, like getting them. So, but that was how I started my business, you know, back in 2009. And for a couple of years, I was learning from those marketing experts whom probably all of us have encountered that was all about the six-figure income. Nowadays it's seven-figure income and, you know, get a million followers. And so in the first couple of years of those kinds of strategies, I was in that mode of competitiveness and getting and acquisition. And then, inevitably, my soul caught up with me. Inevitably, my core purpose caught up with me and I'm grateful what happened was that essentially my spirit, my higher self maybe, started to sabotage my efforts. I started to experience less success at the same time I was starting to have crisis of conscience. Like, is what I'm doing really aligned with what I say I want to be about in life? And what is it that I do I really want to be about in life? You know, and I think that's actually a purpose and healing is also there's something there, the connection there. So, long story short, I was feeling my conscience nagging at me. Inside, I wasn't happy. Like, I wasn't sleeping well at night. And then on the outside, I was starting to see my business being sabotaged a bit by my own efforts, by my own actions, by my subconscious lack of alignment. And I think that's what tends to happen is when we do have a lack of alignment, it starts to eat away at us and then it starts to manifest itself in the outer results. Now, it can take some time because some people are able to fake it until they make it kind of success thing for a while but then it always catches up eventually. I'm grateful it caught up with me within five years of doing that. It still took a little longer than I had hoped nowadays. But anyway, so back in, so it's starting at about 2013, I decided to start to shut down my business. 2014, I basically started over because I said I can't do it in a way that doesn't feel right anymore. I can't do anything other than what feels right. And so I've started, I essentially started over about, what is it, four, five, six, about five years ago now. And I didn't know what it meant to be in this new world of being authentic in business because most of the people I was learning from, I would say almost all of them, their stuff didn't quite feel right anymore. Some of them felt very not right anymore. So I had to stumble into, well, gosh, if I just try to give, if I just try to bless my audience instead of always trying to get something from them, what would that feel like? So I really kind of started out innocently just trying to love in my marketing and in my business, regardless of whether the transaction happened, whether or not I made a lot of sales this month, whether or not clients said yes to working with me. I just tried to care. I just tried to serve them. And over the last five years, I've learned how to do that in a way that also happens to make sense for business. Because yes, it is true that we can, I would say, misapply our generosity and compassion in a way where, for example, I think maybe a lot of you watching this, well, all of you watching this care, okay? That's number one. I assume that to be true. You care about your audience. You care about how your presence is affecting those who consume your content, reach you. But we can forget that we are still in a world where if you want to have a business, there needs to be a give and take, right? And so if you are always giving of your time and your energy, and you say, no, no, no, don't pay me for it. It's not right. And you can, of course. You can, of course, do that. And it's called volunteering. It's called having a hobby. And it's great to have a hobby. It's great to have volunteer. It's great to be a volunteer and to help as many people as you can. But then you still have to go back to work. You still have to go back to your job or you have to build a business. And so the past few years has been, the question I had is, can we be our authentic selves tearing, compassionate, generous, service oriented and still make a living? And even quite a good living if you want to. And that's been the inquiry I've been going through. What did you find out? I found out that absolutely yes. I'm grateful that today, my business is doing as well as it's ever done, thankfully. Except for there was a couple of years in the beginning where I was so transaction oriented. I didn't care about what people thought of me and I just made as many cells as I could. But now my business is making full time income. Of course, I'm living in San Francisco. It's not cheap here. And I'm able to support myself and my family. So things are going well financially. And at the same time, I figured out how to give as much as I can. And basically we need to have an understanding of what makes sense in our business to give as freely and as generously as possible. And then what makes sense to charge for, right? So we all have a natural feeling of that balance. And if we over give, if we overextend ourselves, we feel that too. And if we under extend ourselves or under care, we also feel that. And so it's really a process of self exploration and sensing into what is that right balance for us. And here's the thing. Over time, as we figure that balance out and as we create a business that works, we can then shift that balance. We might find ourselves being able to care for more and more people because our capacities have grown, right? That's the definition of growing a business. Our best capacities grow. We can care for more people in an even more generous way and yet still be sustainable ourselves, right? And so, you know, today I do, you know, two, you know, Facebook live videos a week that are half hour I just give as much as I can with as much energy as I can. I write two thoughtful blog posts per week. And I teach a new class every single month that's, you know, quite affordable. People are able to access my knowledge and my expertise, my experience at a fraction of the price that I use to charge. And I'm able to make it work. And my one-on-one, you know, coaching rates are actually lower than they were when I first started my business. But they're still at a level that's enough for me to live in San Francisco. So, you know, that's the balance that we all need to find. And if we can find that balance and then do our practices every day to return to our higher self and to resource ourselves, then we can be fully authentic in our marketing and our selling. When we give, we fully give. When we have an invitation, we invite with joy because it's the right thing for the audience, it's the right thing for the client. Yeah, and George, you know, hearing you speak about your journey of alignment, you know, finding your place, finding your sense of purpose and also reflecting a little bit on how, you know, how funny and sneaky purpose is. You know, people come to us as healers and say, I really want to find my purpose. What is it? Is it painting? Is it this thing? And you know, purpose is, I believe, alignment. Alignment with your spirit. And, you know, you find through your gifts and talents that you have the ability to help people know how to shine themselves professionally in the world as an authentic business coach. How do you bring that out? Well, it's by showing them and being a mirror for them through your virtues, giving them hope through your hope and watching the cycle return. And, you know, I'm just acknowledging, like, the well of our purpose is within us. And it's people like you that help us to bring that out. And I am so grateful that you have stepped into, you know, maybe at times felt like a real departure back, you know, when you had to step out of the same type of work to do the same type of work differently. And what a cool lesson that is. You know, I'm just going to sit with that later thinking about other ways that I can do my own work, my own self-work or my energy work in my practice. Maybe what else am I missing? You know, where else can I grow? And so I just want to thank you for sharing that story. And I have, like, hundreds of more questions. But I want to ask just a quick one. You were talking about your definition of success. So I'm curious, you know, what's your definition of success now? Wow. Yeah. Well, it's hard to put into words. I feel like it's more of a feeling. And the feeling, I guess, I'll use the same words that we've been using, which is balance. But it's not just like work-life balance. Oh, I, you know, have a set number of hours I work, set number of hours I play or whatever and rest. But it's sort of more, sort of more maybe inner composure and a feeling that, wow, there is a, there is a right balance of giving and receiving in my life and in my business. And I, so that's one idea. I think that's success. And the other idea is growth. I think success to me is about growth, but growth not necessarily in the external metrics of, oh, I have this many more fans this month or I have this much money, you know. Yeah. And, you know, when our, when we find the balance of giving and receiving, there tends to be healthy external growth as well to a certain sustainable level. And we have to also be aware that growth externally can't happen forever because that's the definition of cancer. So there needs to be a sustainable level. But what I mean is growth inside. Do I feel like my work is providing me or that I'm shaping my work so that I'm feeling like, oh my God, I'm growing in my creativity, in my generosity, in my virtues, essentially, is that happening in my day-to-day work? And if that is a yes, then I feel like I am on the path of success. Like I feel really good about what I'm doing day-to-day. Regardless of how the external metrics look this month, because I feel like business and work is a stage for our own personal evolution. It is a business and work is a tool for the growth of our virtues. Like every single day, there's an opportunity to bring a little, bring a little light, bring a little love, bring a little more courage or a bit more humility to the situation at hand. And it's not about getting just about, it's not just about getting things done. And I think a lot of times when we're in business, especially when we have our own business, there's so much to do that the temptation becomes, well, I just got to get through the day or just got to finish this task. But every task has the opportunity in the moment to bring more of source, right? More of good and positive energy to the thing right there. So I think that's the path of success for me. And gratefully, of course, it happens to work well with external metrics at this time. But regardless, I think wherever we are right now, wherever you are right now, those of you who are watching, maybe you're just in the beginning of your business, maybe you're doing really well. Or some of you might be at a valley stage of your business. No matter what, if you return to the deeper purpose in this moment, you can still set yourself up in the path of success. Thanks, George. Underneath that, I was also hearing the word courage. Courage and flexibility. Flexibilities to work through what feels static and held in your day to be aware of when does it feel held in a way that you're not growing your spirit because energy always moves. And whenever energy is stuck, cancer. It's the same idea that which is not moving is really at odds with the natural tendency of the world. And so there has to be some courage to say, oh, I'm feeling like I need to be inspired again in this moment, even though I was just inspired five minutes ago by that new email that popped in. So these are such amazing and wonderful reminders about how many opportunities are hiding in our day to explore more of ourselves. You mind if I ask you one more question while I do a couple more? Okay, great. You know, I'm a community leader, and so I work or steward over a community of healers worldwide. And in our community, there's this hesitation. And maybe this is just a human tendency. I don't know. But to ask people that we know already, you know, I do healing work in North Carolina. And I have all these people who I know are very unwell. And yet I still either it's a boundary thing or I don't want to bring my work, which is actually service to them or I think, well, they know what I do. They would call me if they wanted me to help them. But I'm just curious, like, do you have any ideas about what might be happening in that resonance and alignment between the people that I already know and the service that I'm out here providing? Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. I think there is a natural modesty, which is a good thing from heart-centered professionals such as healers. There's a natural modesty about reaching out even to the people we already know, even to our friends, family, colleagues, because we don't want to bother them. And like you said, you know, they should already know what I do and if they need me, they'll... But here's the reality that we need to also accept. The reality is that everybody is thinking about their own issues and their own problems. And rarely do they even remember what we do. Actually, it's true. I mean, because we ourselves, obviously we do our work every day or we think about our work, we read about our work. And so it's obvious to us what we do every single day and we assume that because we are so clear about what we do, that everybody around us must be clear about what we do. But I find again and again, it's just, it's shocking to me honestly that even some of my own friends and family don't know what I do, you know what I mean? And I bet if you, those of you watching this right now, if you survey your friends and family and ask them, hey, how would you describe what I do? Some of them are like, not really sure, you know? My dad would be like, she just does this. Especially when it comes to holistic methods of healing. I mean, if you're a surgeon, even if you're a surgeon, you're like, well, she does surgery. I don't know what kind of surgery, but some kind of, but like people don't know what we do. It's really interesting. So it's our responsibility to remind the people we know every now and then that we are here to help, and that we're here available if they have a healing issue or whatever issue we help them with, that we have a service that provides that. Now, how do we do that in a way that doesn't come across as salesy or marketing? The simplest way of doing that, right, would be through social media, right? Basically, if we are willing to use something like Facebook or LinkedIn or whatever, where we connect with our friends, our family, whatever it feels appropriate to connect with, on Facebook it's appropriate to connect with friends and family, et cetera. So Instagram, et cetera, whatever social media you use. Be sure to occasionally mention on your Facebook profile what your service is. Hey, for those of you who don't know, here's a reminder that this is what I do. I love what I do. This is an example of some of the issues that I help solve. And I love my work because it allows me to do it in a holistic way or whatever it is that you want to say that's unique about your work compared to conventional means of healing, for example. Because all of us have work that you can contrast with other ways of doing things that you think are maybe less effective or less holistic for the people that you want to help. So, for example, the way I do business coaching or marketing teaching, consulting is better for my people. The people that are meant for me don't like the traditional ways of doing marketing and selling and business building. They like the way that I do it. And so they need to know that I do this. Otherwise, they'll forever be bombarded with the conventional ways of doing things. And similarly, with your audience, whoever's watching this right now, your network, your contacts, your colleagues, your friends and family are continually seeing. If you're a healer, for example, they continually see on television or billboards or on the internet pharmaceuticals or mainstream ways of medicine that they might feel like, you know, I wish there was a better way. And they've forgotten what you do. They don't think about you all the time. And if they think about you, they don't think about your work all the time. So it's your responsibility and the opportunity that you have to remind them occasionally. Now, you could do this at least, you know, once every couple of months at the very least, but I would say once a month is completely acceptable to mention it on social media that this is the work you do and this is how it differs from the conventional ways of doing it. Now, that's a simple way of doing it. Are you doing that? A lot of you will probably say, no, I haven't. When was the last time I posted about my work on my Facebook or on my Instagram or, you know, LinkedIn or wherever? Zero times. Yeah, exactly. Most of the people I talk to, that's what they say. You know, it's like, oh, I can't remember the last time I did that. The secondarily, I think when it comes to colleagues particularly, you know, your professional network, it is such a good idea to keep in touch personally once every couple of months with people. So I encourage everybody to make a list of, I don't know, 20 to 50 of the colleagues that you want to, that you like. It could be friends, could be even family members, but people who are also professionals or who have a network themselves. Now, it might be somebody who is a slightly different profession than you, or it could be somebody who does exactly what you do, but, you know, they are very collaborative as well. So write a list of people and keep in touch personally. You know, hey, Amelia, how is it going? You know, how did it go? Last time we talked about that and, you know, or, hey, I just launched a book or, you know, or, hey, I just wanted to keep in touch and let you know that I have some openings for clients. I love what I do. This is where, you know, the similar kind of message you would post on social media, but you would do it personally and you would write that message in a way that's customized for that person. So you might look at their social media or whatever it is and see what they've been up to lately and then reach out first with, hey, I saw that this has just happened lately. How did it go? Oh, I'm thinking about you. I also wanted to kind of give you an update on what I'm up to professionally right now. So how many people do you know in your professional network keep in touch with you like that even once a year? You know, you count on one hand probably, the number of people who do this thoughtfully, right? If you do this once a year or once every six months, it is not too often and your colleagues will be glad to keep in touch with you. And usually the people, you know, and you'll probably notice when you keep in touch with people, you get a lot more referrals for new clients because you are top of mind for them. So if you make a list of let's say even 50 people, right? And keep in touch with, you know, two to four people per week. It's not too many, you know, or let's say you have 25 people and you keep in touch with one person per week. That's very minimal, right? Then you're keeping in touch with each of the 25 people twice a year. And that's a very simple, low maintenance thing to do, but it's thoughtful and you'll almost certainly get more referrals as a result. Well, you know, George, I so appreciate that because in Healing Touch, you know, we have very, very strong scope of practice and code of ethics that we are all required to step into as healing touch professionals. And in that scope of practice and code of ethics, there's that sense that if we can't be of service to somebody in our highest way, you know, aligned with our greatest gifts, that we need to refer out. And, you know, there are thousands of healing touch practitioners all over the country. And we all do it differently. The techniques might be the same, but we all have specialties in different areas. Some people work post-surgically. Some people work more in the psychospiritual dimension. Some people work with chronic pain. And I know that my community is such a rich group of talented healers all over this world that are all different. I just, you know, for when they see this interview, I'm just sharing what an opportunity we have to call out for each other so that we can stay in our scope of practice, practice being in our code of ethics and that we're here for each other. So I love it. It takes us right back into the spirit of collaborative service that you were talking about, you know, as within, so without, and also that it's balanced across our community as well, the macrocosm and the microcosm. So I just see you stepping in and speaking on behalf of all of the alignments that we have as practitioners, how we work with our clients, how we work with each other, how we work with our spirit, our moral compass, our integrity, our history, our future. So, you know, I'm just struck by the landscape, the vast landscape of your work. And I want to acknowledge you for writing, you know, and getting your work out in your books. And so this, this, I promise this is my last question. My husband's probably downstairs going, where are you? But I want to know a little bit about your book, your authentic selling, because already I hear the word selling and I go, no, but I hear authentic first and I go, okay, I'm game. What's it about? Thanks. Well, in a nutshell, it unpacks the strategies and the mindsets of what we've been talking about, you know, for much of this session, which is how do we bring our highest self into the outreach of our business, knowing that guess what, you know, if you don't do any outreach in your business, probably won't get any business. So I think outreach and marketing is a requirement for a business. But if we look at outreach and marketing from a perspective of being of service, rather than trying to sell and trying to force that transaction and, oh my God, I got to get clients. But if we say, oh my God, I have the opportunity to help and bless so many people, right? How can I do more of that? And how can I do this outreach in a way that feels so good? And so that's what the book, you know, unpacks in a couple dozen chapters. And so I hope you all check it out. Came out in September of 2018. And, you know, those who have read it thus far have really enjoyed it as far as what I've heard from people. And there are some philosophical components in there, but there's also very tactical, here's what you do to do authentic selling. So check it out. Read the book. Let me know what you think. I look forward to hearing your questions and your comments. Thank you, George. Thanks, Amelia. I really appreciate you holding the space, asking the questions and helping to get the word out about this philosophy. So thanks so much. Bye.