 As-salamu alaikum brothers and sisters. Sending the reward of Umrah to your departed loved ones or those unable to undertake the journey themselves is a profound expression of love and devotion. At Pure Passage we specialize in performing Umrah on behalf of your sick or deceased family members, ensuring they receive this sacred gift. We understand the challenges and impossibilities some face in embarking on this spiritual journey. The message is here to alleviate the physical and financial burdens, offering a professional and reliable service that takes care of every detail. Let us help you fulfill this obligation for your loved ones with utmost care and attention. Make it happen today, contact Pure Passage and secure this immense reward by performing Umrah on behalf of those close to your heart. Be Ethni-La. Alright guys, welcome back to the channel. If you're new, my name is Bobby. Guys, today we're gonna check out a debate. It is between two Christians and two Muslims. On the Christian side we have David Wood and God Logic. On the Muslim side we do have Muhammad and Shway. As far as I know, Muhammad and Shwayb are Koran only Muslims, but that's besides the point because the debate topic today will be is Jesus the son of God and therefore is Jesus a Muslim or not? Guys, before we start the video, as always, leave me a thumbs up if you enjoy the content. Subscribe to the channel if you haven't already and check out the links in the description box to further support my work. And now with no further ado, let's have a look. So you said, like, you know, for those who say that Jesus is the son of God, that they are, we're disbelievers for saying that, but we're still Muslims. So my question is, according to the verses that he quoted, is Jesus, he's a Muslim but he's a disbeliever? Avery, to answer you very quickly, do you submit that God is controlling this world? No, no, no, that doesn't answer my question. That doesn't answer my question. I am going to answer your question. I'm asking you simply, simply yes or no. That doesn't answer. Do you accept that God is controlling this world and there's a G of judgment? Yes or no? I'm sorry. Sure. So can you answer my question now? So now to answer your question, did it have been? Just to, sounds like Avery has a question for you too. No, no, he said he's about to answer it. I understand the question. So there's people that messed up in the religion prior to Jesus, Jesus came to fix the religion. After Jesus, people messed up in the religion, Muhammad came to fix the religion. That's not what I asked. And after Muhammad, people, no, I'm telling you, so when you're claiming that Jesus said that he is the begotten Son of God, that is not something that Jesus would say. I didn't. Okay. So let's pause here for a second. You, I'm talking about the verses you quoted to prove to us in our Bible that Jesus is a Muslim. Basically, what God logic the Christian asks here of the Muslims is, hey, guys, you quoted the Bible to make your case. You quote the Bible, for example, where Jesus said, pray to the father, but in the same passage actually Jesus referred to as the Son of God. So therefore the Christian position here is yet again, if you quote our Bible, you have to quote it as a whole. However, the Muslim perspective on this is within the Bible, you can find truths. How do you find those truths? How can you distinguish between truths and falsehood through the Quran? The Quran clearly teaches pure monotheism. So anything that aligns with pure monotheism within the Bible, we take as truth everything that goes against pure monotheism, such as claims about the Son of God, claims of divinity of Jesus. We discard here. I fixed the whole debate for you guys. So I'm not talking about what you think is corrupted. I'm talking the parts that you quoted as if they're not corrupted. So you're talking to shy, but I quoted only two verses 30 and 20 to 21. Exactly. And you said how do you said out of your mouth? I heard you. It's recorded in your verses. You read that Jesus submits his will to the father as he hears he judges and he submits his will to the father. So Jesus is the Son of God and he submits to his father. I'm going to ask again. So according to the verses, you quoted a Muslim, but a disbeliever. Yet again, it's very, very simple. We do not take John as the ultimate authority. We do not take John as the ultimate truth. We simply say that there are passages within John that align with the Quran, those passages we take. It is really that simple. We believe that the Quran is direct revelation from God. We can back up that the Quran has been preserved. We cannot make the same claim about the Bible. The Quran is the only holy book that is preserved. You cannot say that about the Bible. You cannot say that about the Torah. You cannot say that even about the Bhagavad Gita, etc., etc. You name it. This is why we take the Quran as the golden standard of truth. Yes, it is that simple. We believe the Quran is the direct revelation of God and it preaches, of course, Tauchid, pure monotheism. Therefore, if we find segments of pure monotheism within John, fantastic. We say this aligns with our worldview. 530. Jesus has said he submitted his will. People saying that he's the begotten Son of God. That is something that Jesus did not say. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, let let me clarify this, Avery, because, yeah, I think he's missing the point. So he's not saying what you what you believe or what Islam teaches. Avery is asking since you quoted John, chapter five, verse 30. And that's where Jesus says that everything that the father does, he does and that you have to honor the son the same way you honor the father. He's Avery is asking, is Jesus in this passage? Even if you believe even if you believe it's corrupt, but is he in this passage a Muslim but not a believer? Because he's saying that he's a son. If that is your question, then no, according to that passage, Jesus would not be considered a Muslim. It is very, very simple because a Muslim would never say that he is the son of God. However, and we need to clarify this, of course, this is a clash between books. You claim the Bible is the truth. The Muslims claim the Quran is the truth. You say everything within the Bible must be true. And the same applies to the Muslims yet again, which say everything in the Quran must be the truth. Hence, you have a clash between those two books. But ultimately, then the question becomes, of course, which book is more reliable? Why would we even take the Bible as an authority? Why would we take the Bible as proof for Jesus saying that? Because indeed, we do know that the New Testament has been written by anonymous authors and not by the disciples of Christ. Hence, unreliable by any given standard, even modern day historians will, of course, agree that the Bible is not to be taken as historical proof for Jesus. And this is why yet again, it all boils down to you believe in the Bible, the Muslims believe in the Quran. However, for the Quran, we do have proof that it has been preserved. Therefore, objectively speaking, the Quran is the better source. That's pretty much it. And therefore, yet again, what does the Quran preach? The Quran preaches monotheism. We do not believe that those other passages that you can find within the Bible are actually coming from Jesus. However, yet again, to answer your question, if you really believe that Jesus said, I am the son of God or I am God. Even then, of course, by that standard, no, Jesus would not be a Muslim. And you have to honor him the same way. But, Dave, wait, Dave, the John chapter five verse 30, it doesn't say what you just said. That's not the verse we used. So what point are you making from that? Let's do this. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Didn't Muhammad say he brought up John 530? Yeah, I brought John 530. No, no, both of you did. Both of you did. But it doesn't say anything about. It doesn't say what you are saying. It doesn't say what you, David, say. Yeah, we're talking. We're talking about the rest of the passage. Let me give it. Let me just give a breakdown of what's actually going on in that passage. I understand what you're saying, but let me answer very quickly. So we do not we do not subscribe that the gospel is 100 percent truth. So we're asking about according to the passage, David. We're quoting the things that are aligning with the truth and the things that are not aligning with the truth. We are here to help you corrected with the criteria, which is the grant. So that's why that's why we're saying we're not saying we know you. We we we know you believe that Jesus said other things. We're saying according to this passage, would the person who is saying these things, saying that he does whatever the just let's see what he says that he's the one who raises the dead at the resurrection, someone who says that that you have to honor him the same way you honor the father, this where he says that he is the final judge of all mankind, would a person who said these things in this passage be a Muslim, but not a believer, he wouldn't. He wouldn't be a Muslim point blank. Two points. One, one, that Muhammad just answered the debate where we had. Jesus can Jesus can speak in the first person. And then the other thing is just like how you're saying there's ambiguity with how the sun is defined. Yes, you know, define one second. The Jews define the sun in a different way than you defy the sun. David was a son of God. There's Benel Elohim, the sons of God. There's many sons of God in the Bible. So when you're taking it as a begotten son, that's when you went off course. But doesn't say that Jesus was saying I am the begotten son. I might my father had a certain relationship with my mother. And here I come without a father. That's where it's the problem. Exactly. Exactly. Dude, it's it's very simple, man. We didn't ask you all of that. We don't need the fluff. Seriously, answer the question by your question. The question is why do you need the first person to answer it? I guess, dude, it's very simple. What David asked you and what I asked you, it's super simple. According to the text, the possible 100 percent or just a little bit. That's what you're saying. It's very simple. Please. It's very, very simple. Is this person who's claiming to be the son of the father who can do whatever the father does and is honored the same way the father is honored, who raises the dead and judges at the day of judgment. Is that person a Muslim and but not a believer? Yes. No, he's not a Muslim. Thank you. Thank you. Well, Jesus, Jesus in so Jesus in John chapter five is not a Muslim, but you quote John chapter five to show that Jesus is a Muslim. David would getting super excited over there. This point has been made a billion times. Not only on this debate, I myself just talked about this here previously. We don't believe that the whole Bible is accurate and completely preserved. We believe that there are a lot of man-made things infused into the Bible. Therefore, yet again, if it aligns with the Quran, we identify it as true. If it does not align with the Quran, we discard it as false. Very, very simple, man. And that applies to the same chapter as well. Don't twist the issues here. Don't twist the issues. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Don't you. No, no, no. I don't try not to, please. Gentlemen, are you going to go with Shui for about one. Idiotic of both sides, honestly. Every you are playing the Saman things here. Look, Matthew chapter 24 verse 36, it tells you clearly. Jesus says nobody knows the day of judgment. Right. Sure. Now, if you are trying to base twist issues and base it on an issue to ask Mohammed a question by trying to put him in one corner, which with a contradiction, essentially, you have to clarify first before making those statements. However, the Christians as always are very disingenuous. Of course, we have to clarify that the Bible is contradicting itself. That's pretty much what it is. Nobody claims that when you open up the Bible, you find pure monotheism. You do not. There are a bunch of contradictions within the Bible. And yes, I agree that there are some vague passages where somebody could even assume divinity within Jesus, especially the Gospel of John. However, as Shuaib quoted there of the last hour, nobody knows about the father. So in this passage, clearly, Jesus has no idea about the last day. This is something that only the father knows. This is why you have such a contradiction within the Bible and within your theology as well, because Christianity does not equal the Bible. You have many branches of Christianity on that note. Anyways, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, Catholicism, etc. That passage clearly shows Jesus Christ as a human that does not know about the last hour and is not co-equal to the father. But within the Christian doctrine yet again, they are co-equal. The son and the father are co-equal. But how can they be if the father has greater knowledge? If somebody has greater knowledge than you, you guys are not equal. You cannot be co-equal. This goes against the law of non-contradiction. It is very, very simple. So therefore not surprising the Christians are very disingenuous because they're not answering those statements being made about Jesus. However, this is the framework that the debate has to find itself within. The framework must be that the Bible is not congruent and that the Bible is contradictory. This is what it is. You have a bunch of contradictory statements in which you find Jesus exalted like a divine person and sometimes he is just a human. Of course, the Orthodox and the Catholics, they want to fix this issue by saying, well, Jesus is fully man and fully God. That is a contradiction within itself yet again. So therefore point blank, your Bible is contradictory. The Quran is not. This is why we use the Quran as a criterion and therefore it does not even matter if you have statements within the same chapter, within the same statements that are contradictory, where Jesus says, pray to the father. And then in the same breath even he could say, me and my father are one. It does not matter. Your Bible is contradicting. And this is why Muslims are critiquing you. Question. That is nonsensical. What I'm trying to let you know right now is if you go to John chapter twenty seven, Jesus says, I ascend to my father, your father. And to my God, your God. But if we understand and we quote certain passages where he's mentioned the father doesn't actually denote that he's the begotten son, but you are trying to put it in a nutshell by questioning Muhammad that, oh, if Jesus claims he's the son and he is this, is this, does that make him a Muslim or a believer? But that is that is a nonsensical type of question to ask. This look based on chapter five, John chapter five verse 30, the passage we quoted, if you have to base it on exactly the context we we quoted, it says, I can't of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge. So it means he's doing the wheel of the father. This is what we call the reference. It's very common sense. Over five seconds. You're good. Oh, hold on. I sorry to I just want to keep going back and forth between teams. So I have you go right after Avery, Avery, 60 seconds. No, I OK, within the 60 seconds, please show you is is Allah a father? Yes or no? Oh, my God, they just have those scripted questions. He's not a father. Thank you. So if someone is claiming that Allah is their father, then they're not a Muslim. Correct. You have to understand the perspective on how he's using the word father. It doesn't matter. Again, absolutely nonsensical within the Bible, within the Torah. We read that many people has been referred to as sons of God, for example, David, so therefore back in that time frame, back in that context, it was crystal clear that the son of God is not a literal son of God. It is metaphorical. Islamically speaking, there is nothing wrong with that. However, within time, people started attributing yet again, worldly attributes to God. Essentially, this comes from Greek philosophy. You have Zeus, you have Hercules, you have the father, you have the son. And therefore people started believing that actually now we're talking about a begutten son prior to that, nobody believed it. A son of God was an exalted position such as a friend of Allah within Islam. So therefore back in those times, it was OK to be called a son of God, because back in the day, nobody was so stupid to actually believe. Hey, we're talking about a biological son over here. Of course not. However, times have changed and certain laws have changed as well. Certain dietary practices have changed over the time as well. The Israelites have different food laws than the Muslims. And even within Islam, within the revelation of the Qur'an, certain laws have changed. At first, the consumption of alcohol was curbed and then eliminated completely. So therefore not every single detail has to be exactly the same for somebody to be qualified a Muslim, i.e. a submitter to God. Is it biological? Wait, wait, wait, wait, clarify the point first. Sure. OK, sure. But it's very usual. But please, please let me just ask it. Let me just keep on asking. Figuratively, I'll go. No, no, no, no. OK, so I have a question. I have a question. Please, please. Person that is defined in the world. But if it was 60 seconds, I do want to give a chance to you for you to finish. And then we'll go right over to you, Mohammed. All right, thank you. So look, so you just, both of you just said that Allah is not a father in any sense. So it doesn't matter in what sense Jesus claims to be the son, whether it's begotten, whether it's allegorical. In any sense, if you claim to be the son of Allah, you're not a Muslim. I'll let my point. All right, for today, the video cuts off. I already made my statement on the father. Back in the day, this was seen as metaphorical. If we look into Islamic history, we have so-called friends of Allah, people that were very close to Allah. However, if you look into the 99 names of Allah, you won't find friend. So Allah does not have the name or the attribute friend. However, you could be a friend of Allah, metaphorically speaking. And therefore, yes, back in the day, you could have been a son of God. Still, even that statement does not make God a father. He doesn't have to share that name. He doesn't have to share that attribute for you to be considered within the worldly life as a son of God. Metaphorically speaking, but that's not what the Christians are interested in. And I use the term loosely, of course, whilst referring to David Wood, because he is not a true Christian. He's not a Bible scholar. He's not a person of knowledge or any authority within Christianity. He is simply an internet troll and an enemy of Islam. So much evidence has been presented to him. However, he twists and turns like a snake and presents this case always disingenuous. Moreover, they're asking prescripted questions. They're building up little hoops that you have to jump through. Hey, is Allah a father? But Jesus says here, pray to the father. Therefore, he cannot be a Muslim. It's so stupid and childish. I'm really wondering why Muslims still engage with them in debates. There's really no point in talking to them at all. The message of Islam has been conveyed to them. And if they want to further research, they can read the Quran. They can look it up online if they want to. But they clearly do not want to. Those people are enemies of Islam. They hate Islam and their whole goal is to debunk Islam. They cannot, however, and this is why they have to ridicule without even being able to back up their own doctrine, their own doctrine is incoherent. You can attack Islam as much as you want to. Three will never be one. You can attack Islam as much as you want to. Your doctrine will never be unique. There are many doctrines even within Hinduism where we have a tri unity. We have many other doctrines. Yet again, Greek mythology, where we have gods that have sons. This is nothing new. And if you look into Christianity that was formed in the Roman Empire, especially in Byzantium as well, you saw how much Greek mythology and philosophy dripped into the church. Christianity is a blend of paganism and monotheism. That's basically what it is. And if you're objective enough, you can see it. Nobody takes your Bible as a reference point. Nobody takes it as a preserved scripture. Not even Christians themselves. Therefore, your book has no authority over Muslims. However, even if you look into mainstream scholars, atheists that don't believe in religion whatsoever, they will confirm the preservation of the Koran. That's what it is. Therefore, even from a secular perspective, which I don't care for, the Koran is superior to the Bible. But you do not care about those points. You simply want to attack Islam. You want to ridicule Islam. But the only person that is looking ridiculous is you. And not only in front of us here. You're looking ridiculous in front of your creator. Your creator is only one. Your creator wants you to worship him alone without any partners. Your creator, my creator, our creator created everything. Everything you can see around you is a creation of God, of Allah. However, God himself is unperceivable. And even within your Bible yet again, I don't even want to reference it anymore. You can see that God is not seeable with your human eyes. He's beyond everything. He's greater than everything. This is the Creator that we worship. Nothing within creation is the Creator. Therefore, if you see a man performing miracles, even he is not God. He performed those miracles by God's permission. So ultimately, it's your loss, man. You can attack Islam as much as you want to. Islam means submission to God. As long as you're resisting Islam, you're resisting God. You're wrestling with God. God wants you to submit to him. However, you're wrestling with him. You're thinking about maybe I'm going to pray to the son today. Maybe I'm going to pray to Mother Mary today. Maybe I should ask some saints about how this is not what God asks of you. But yet again, it is your loss. If you want to keep on wrestling with God, keep on wrestling with God. You will suffer. There are only two modes in this life. One is submission. One is rebellion. The first rebel, so to speak, was Satan, was Iblis. He was rebelling against the will of God and you are doing exactly the same. You are rebelling against God. Now you find yourself in the external world. You're debating Muslims. You're telling them why a trinity is superior to monotheism. You're telling them why the son of God is a logical concept. I'm going to tell you one thing. Keep on suffering. All right, guys. And that's it for today's video. If you liked it, leave the thumbs up, subscribe to the channel. If you haven't already and check out the links in the description box below to further support my work. All right, guys, that's it for today. As always, may God bless you all. Much love and peace.