 live from Seattle, Washington. It's theCUBE on the ground, covering KubeCon 2016, brought to you by the Linux Foundation and Red Hat. Here's your host, John Furrier. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here at the KubeCon Cloud Native Conference, now run by the Cloud Native Foundation, Computing Foundation CNCF, and I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. This is special on the ground. We have two influencers here on a segment. We're going to just talk about the impact of community and the impact of what's going on with Cloud Native, specifically KubeCon. And in general, open source, as it evolves, the ecosystem and community has been and always will be, continue to be a big part of the innovation, just the innovation growth of our future. So we have Joseph Jackson, who was the founder of KubeCon, now handed it off to the foundation to scale it up. Congratulations, welcome back. And Jim Walker, a friend and formerly at Hortonworks, before that in the community as well, now with Coro West. Good to see you guys. That's what this shirt says, yeah. Coro West. Yeah, so you know a little bit about what's going on. So as you're back in tech, you took a little hiatus into marketing tech. Yeah, marketing tech. Is that like the, you know, Hawaii? It was like another world. In the tech business. You go out, sit on the beach for a little bit and talk about predictive analytics. But it was still, it was a different game. It's just so easy. Just say predictive analytics. We're prescriptive and we use big data. Nothing's easy. Well, there, so back to this show. So congratulations on a great event. And this is really in my opinion, something that you put together on the fly, you know, kind of reminds me of Linux Turbo when he said, hey, I'm just going to start a project and I'm humble about it. You kind of same approach, put a group together last year and then it grew really fast. Talk about what happened last year and then compare and contrast your event to what happened this year. Yeah, so I've been sort of honored to be involved with Kubernetes from almost the very beginning. I was sort of following the project as it got announced and, you know, super excited and just to sort of see the project grow within the first sort of six to nine months. You could tell there was something really special about the technology and that, you know, the community was really genuine. There was a really high quality of focus around just the overall release cadence and the features and just the overall execution. So people were pumped, but how many people were at the event? How many people were at the event? Yeah, the first conference, we had 550, 560 people pulled it together, like you said, sort of on the home. It's like a meetup, right? Yeah, it was sort of like, you know, let's just do a big meetup and call it KubeCon and ended up being like, you know, we have 35 corporate sponsors, lots of multinational company, a VMware, Red Hat, you know, Metaswitch, you know, major companies kind of came behind, you know, Google and Red Hat and just an amazing turning point, I think really for Kubernetes because it was really the project, maturing and growing into a real, you know, a real ecosystem. And then this event here is thousands of people. I don't know what the number is. Yeah, we, you know, 1500 people with the waiting lists. You know, we had capacity planning issues. We could have, I think we could have 2,000 people here. Yeah, it's fire marshal. We'll have several thousand next year, so. Connectivity is on demand. We're gonna put it on the internet as well. Yeah, that's exciting though. So it's a spark that you did the spark in what, you know, Jim, we were talking in the hallways with some others about, you know, you see these sparks happen pretty rarely, you know, you see foundations get cobbled together when there's movement. But when something moves this fast, it gets your attention. Yeah. Your thoughts on what this all means. Yeah, you know, what I saw in Kubernetes really last year and talking to Joseph around the time that KubeCon started last year, a very similar community of what I saw in 2010 with the Hoop community. And you were around through that whole game as well, John. And so just like rabid attention to the space. And a group of people who, this time around it's different though, because I think. Google didn't give away MapReduce. I think they gave away MapReduce to Cloudera. They didn't give away Kubernetes to. It was kind of Yahoo started it, right? So it was a little bit of a similar kind of heritage there. But I think Google had first dibs on it and kind of let it kind of slide out. I guess surely, yeah, right, exactly. It's all Google exhaust after all. You know, it's different this time because this community is much more vibrant and prolific. You know, the people that are involved and across a broad set of companies, it's just a different game. It's a bigger population of people who are on it. And big data, you had a unique, I would say VMware kind of culture. You had the Mike Olsen's Amur Awadala. People who knew web scale and hyperscale and that old web scale trend. Now it's just all developers get Kubernetes. Well, it's a little bit. And it's a little bit of an age thing too, because I think everybody, I always like to say, you know, the people that graduated after the year 2000, open source is native to them. Like that's what they think of. And those are the people that are really driving this now. And so now it's not even like, there's nobody left that even questioned open source. Yeah. You know, and that's what we had last time. This time it's fully open source and it's like pedal to the metal. It's an industry, I think it's an industry reshaping. And I'll give you an example. So Brendan Burring is on earlier with Ross Gartler and I.S. And I'm an old timer. So I know of all the history of all the proprietary approaches. You know, one of them was Microsoft and they had their own little things off of this great ecosystem. And so those guys, I asked them the question, the elephant in the room is, you know, you just try to get people on Azure Stack. It's coming out of a lock-in like Oracle. These kinds of older companies have a playbook and they were very keen. They said, no one will tolerate lock-in in this new market. So to your point, Jim. Right, that's gone. So that's gone. So if there's no lock-in, that means there's no proprietary strategy relative to proprietary software. Okay, I believe that to be true. Now, if you buy that, you go, okay, what's the competitive advantage? And to me, I want to get your thoughts on this because it's a community discussion. It seems to me that if you look at Amazon Web Services, their competitive advantage is speed and code pushing. They push so much code and they have a flywheel of leverage that people can leverage with the code. So the alternative is to do it yourself. And there's no way you can get the efficiencies of what they're producing. So that is essentially the same dynamic in a community model, the idea. Do you agree with that idea? I totally agree with that. I mean, I think what we're seeing, and this is a conversation that Koraz and Google and others have been sort of getting people to think about more, is there's sort of a really beautiful analogy of Kubernetes being sort of the Linux kernel for distributed systems. Or you can think of it as another way of sort of looking at it as it's like a POSIX for distributed systems. And if you just take Linux as an example, there was just this cambered explosion of distributions as Linux started to stabilize and as the software became more reliable and permeated, vendors came in and started to sort of package the system. We're gonna see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. We're starting to see major multinationals invest in the technology, sort of provide their own distributed approach around packaging and integration with different tools. We're seeing Canonical and VMware and Google and a bunch of companies actually, you know, Red Hat. They've started to invest serious engineering dollars in stabilizing the code base. So I think the same thing, you asked the question about differentiation. The differentiation with Kubernetes is really around, you know, there's like real enterprises starting to use this in production. With Ticketmaster, they're running a $25 billion e-commerce. Yeah, we hope to have them come on, but that's great there in Amazon. $25 billion e-commerce business, they're running that on Kubernetes and they're moving that. On Amazon. On to Amazon. Shutting down multiple data centers. Are they on Amazon? Are they moving to Amazon? They're moving on to Amazon. They're shutting down multiple data centers and Kubernetes is their layer of indirection for applications and Amazon locking. Sounds like critical infrastructure to move. Yeah, exactly. How do you package and stabilize and open source projects? Displacing other critical infrastructure from old guys. Yeah, in a big way. And, you know, stabilizing Kubernetes, making it consumable for enterprises, I think, where the differentiation comes. And there's gonna be a lot of companies that's important for end users. We need to collaborate. We need to, you know, drive a lot of value there. So that's kind of what I said. I buy that, but I want to go to GM because I'm gonna play the skeptic. Sure. You know what? I totally hear what you're saying, but that's BS because in big data, they promised me the same things in 2010. You know, Cloud Air was the only guys, they took the MapReduce paper from Google, Yahoo's guys who were commercializing it, and then Hortonworks came out from Yahoo, then you had a two-horse race. EMC and Pivotal all came in. So what happened? What happened in big data that's different that wouldn't happen here? It was, first of all, I think it was a different group of people. And I think honestly, this time around, I think open source and what's happening with Kubernetes in particular is a response to basically the cloud providers setting up these shops and saying, okay, I'm gonna have services and servers underneath that. And you're kind of in Amazon at some point, right? Or within one of the providers, right? The lock-in is kind of there. And so if you look at what Kubernetes is doing to this community, it kind of opens it up, John. And so I think it's almost like a response to that to actually, let's open this up yet again. And so I just... And a lightweight way that doesn't provide lock-in because the idea of Kubernetes is you can move across resources. And it fuels the entire movement to happen. You know, I mean, it starts in cloud native, but what happens when all the legacy apps start to turn into this new world? And so cloud native has started in the open source world. And so I really believe it was a natural progression we've talked about before. So you think this is a different scenario right now? I think it's a completely different scenario. I think we're built off an open source project and there's a community. I feel that this community is extremely vibrant and really very, very open. It's a complete and total meritocracy. Just a final word on this segment. Community, what's gonna be going on? One of the things I think that makes Kubernetes stand out is exactly what Jim just said. It's a totally distributed structure for governance. Google recognized very early on that this kind of level scale project that would transform an industry, that would sort of take the SOA integration industry to new levels, $20, $30 billion industry, couldn't be run by a single benevolent dictator. So they donated it to CNCF and now we're seeing major distribution of contributions and evolution. Red Hat, CoreOS, Apprenda, Microsoft. And we had Dan on earlier, he cal-rified it as a business segmentation with technical. And that's key, because you don't want to cope with this model. Great, guys, thanks so much for sharing the community perspective. Great to see you, and congratulations for being the founder of KubeCon, which has now turned into the cloud-native conference. Appreciate it. KubeCon. And we hope there has to be all the next KubeCon in Berlin. Thanks for having us, John. Great, thanks for having us. You're watching theCUBE on the ground here in Seattle. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching.