 I'd like to take and call on Thursday, September 6th, Berlin Select Board to order. To my left is Wayne Lamberton. To my right is Jeremy Hansen, Angelina Capron. And I'm Brad Town. Woods also is Diane Isabel, our town treasurer, and Dana Hadley, our town administrator. And additions or changes to the agenda date? Yes, I do have a few items that I would like to add to the agenda. I'd like to add a discussion on changing the meeting date for the Select Board. That was at the request of Select Board member Capron. I would also like to add a discussion and perhaps approval of an alternate signer for when we request reimbursement on the sewer and water interim financing. And I also have, would it like to ask the liquor board to convene to approve a catering license? Hearing none, treasurer support on you? The pre-audit was on August 27. The auditors are here for the morning. I already sent a lot of the information to them a couple of days before, so it only took about three hours for them to do the pre-audit then. Did Linda come down to the meeting? Yes, they did. They come to the meeting. OK. The audit itself will be on October 2nd. We'll be looking at those. Mr. Grenier. Yes. You're up, Commander. OK. Great. Thank you for having me tonight to answer questions that you folks might have, but that also is really up to date on the culvert replacement on mirror lake road. We started about almost a year ago talking about replacing that culvert and then over the winter, it finally collapsed and you had the road closed for a while now. We were hired to design our culvert replacement and also apply to the state for a grant to help replace that culvert. We did help, you know, apply for that. We received a grant to help replace some of the costs. I can't remember the total amount. The total grant amount is 175,000 or 90% of what we spent. So we proceeded with a survey of the area, worked to develop a design for a larger culvert replacement following the guidelines of V-TRAN since it was the state grant that we applied for. We followed those standards. The recommendation was a 22-foot wide open arch culvert, about 6 feet, 6.5 feet high. I started with supply companies looking at different sized culverts and decided to use Contek, which is a company that all throughout the winter we use many, many times in their reputation. They supplied the design that we worked around and at the beginning of August, we put that project out to bid. We had six, we had seven contractors we sent the information to. We had three local, fairly local contractors bid on the project and we had three results. I sent that to Dana. I don't know if you want to announce or what, but... Well, I think we'd be probably waiting for your recommendation, but we did receive three bids, which is now public, the voice construction 222, 825, capital earth moving 144, 716, and per-seat excavation 103, 57, 50 cents. Correct. So... That is the cost of the construction, the culvert you have previously purchased. It was actually due to be delivered one day. Right, and I explained to you about what we did with the culvert last time. So you're saying that in that case we're expecting the project to come in at 208, 298. Yes. Okay. So as far as the granting the bid, you're recommending to the board that they grant the bid to a vendor, correct? I'm recommending per-seat excavation based on their bid, review of the bid, and they have supplied a bond for their work by the requirement. And I've done multiple projects in the town of Stowe. They've worked at more university, town of Weitzfield. They've been around for a long time, and luckily everybody that came to the bid took a bid information, was all very qualified. The three that put in prices were eminently qualified, and I feel like you received very good price. Okay, I did not put that on. I didn't know this when I was making the agenda up, so I would have to put it on for next time. I would have you vote on that, which would be September 17th, I think. Could the board make a recommendation? Are you allowed to sign the contracts? If they are, it derives me to. Okay. The culverts do be delivered on Monday. We would like to start. See if possible. Next week would be great. Culverts to be delivered. I believe Percy is ready to go. Usually this time of the year is fairly dry. The push farther we push in October, and even into November, we can start to get freezing, and also more rain. I'd like to do it as dry as time possible. Set up a special slipboard meeting Monday, to be made to though. Because I mean, we have an item here about the Mirror Lake culvert. Are you comfortable with that? I mean, I guess I, in looking at it, we do have Mirror Lake culvert on the agenda. I feel it made to recuse myself for obvious reasons. Obvious reasons. So we have no problems. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you think it's going to take and meet the letter of the law. I think it will, right? Well, I mean, it's our own law that we're following. It's the purchasing policy. So I guess we can vote on it tonight, if you help me out any. I think it's in the best of just the town to be hopeful. I think it would help us out, you know. Sorry to interrupt. No, that's fine. I understand. Maybe I wasn't clear about that. I might send the list. So you're going to need someone to sign the contract? Correct. So a band-aid contract? OK. In most cases, it's a town that's tonight. I don't. I could send it to you tomorrow. Or Percy is available to sign it together tomorrow or on Monday or whatever. Well, the board would like to authorize me to sign. Well, I mean, I'm the guy who reads all the language in the contract. I would say we would want to make sure that you're comfortable and or Rob is comfortable with the contract. Well, I pass everything to Rob. OK. So I'm going to move that we authorize Dana Hadley, town administrator, to sign the contract with Percy subject to review by town council. I can send that to you. If you email me tomorrow morning, I will send it over to our attorney. Can you just start? What? Take a second. I'll just sign it. And then you can just talk about the review. Any further discussion? So you're all set for that, Dana? Did I send you, when we originally used the bid package? Because the contract was in the original bid package. It hasn't changed. Oh, OK. And yeah, so has that been reviewed by Rob already? No, it has not. But would you send it to me just, of course? Yeah. Actually, now that I know who the contractors are, I can fill that part in. Because right now I'm just a contractor and a blank line. Right. Well, I'll write that out. One thing I want to review with you is it is due to be delivered on Monday. Obviously, Percy's not ready for it yet. They haven't mobilized. I've had both cases. I've had to cover pieces and all the hardware left at the site, depending on where the site is. Given its location, would it be possible to have a site worked out with your highway foreman to have it put behind the fence around the salt shed so that it's at least more secure? Yes. I don't think it's going to be there very long. It may be two weeks at most. We have room. Five. If that's OK with you folks, who would I speak to about where to put it so it's not in the way of day-to-day operation? That's Tim Day. This is the highway superintendent. Is he the one for the clearing? He is. 498-8-435 is his number. 498-435. 8-435. He's on vacation this week, but you could still call him. There is a power pole that needs to be moved by washing the electric co-off. They confirmed this afternoon that they moved it. OK. There'll be some more work to transferring of telephoning cable before. It's not 100% in the way, but it's so close that I felt like it should be moved rather than to try to place one of the anchors for the wing wall and have it against the pole under mines. And Washington Electric came and looked at it with me. And they were like, yeah, we'll move it. I'm glad to hear it's moved. This highway has been after me because I may have been going to do it right away. It is moved. Now we've got a very quick response from Washington Electric right very happy. The following, getting the telephone and cable transferred over and cut could take a little bit longer, but at least got stage one down the poles there. So we'll be pushing them to get those moved. It was my understanding that the culvert vendor was going to actually drop the culvert in place. How the process works is the culvert gets delivered, and then they have a traveling assembly crew that goes to different jobs and assembles all the pieces. They will assemble that culvert based on the timeline of Percy opening up the road, getting the pole prepped, the foundation prepped. So Percy and Conteq need to talk about when that crew shows up. I'd expect it a week or so, maybe two or possibly three. And then that will need to be set by crane, which is in Percy's been here in charge of that. Assembly by Conteq, actual putting it physically in place, backfilling, compacting, et cetera is by the contract. So there's a possibility that the pieces of the culvert will be there for a couple of weeks at highway? Yes. And then they'll be picked up again by the contractor and brought out to Maryland for a while. All those in favor of having Dana's authorized. Aye. Motion carries. Back in when we ordered the culvert, I believe you are authorized by the time to sign to purchase that culvert. I wasn't about as so anxious to get the culvert, but I'd explain if I fell on my sword. I have a new copy of that. What I had you, they sent two copies. The first copy was for me to say yes, this is the correct one, order it, and then you were to also back me up because you were actually paying for it. I gave you the wrong contract to sign. They looked exactly identical. I just didn't notice your name on one and mine on the other. Could I possibly ask you to re-sign the new one? It's kind of a formality because it's coming in Monday. But they had asked it. They were good about it, and I was just like, yes, I'll get that straightened out. That's all right with the board. For a little comment from me. Yeah, that's kind of on my mind. Well, this is pretty exciting. It's exactly the same as the one we came before, except for your name on the top, versus this one. This one had gone to Rob, so he didn't pick that up yet. Where would you like me to sign on? Yeah, that block there. The company name would be against the title. So once I send the contract for the work to you, you and the attorney review it, then we could set a date, have it signed by you, and purchase it again. Right, I would say at the beginning of next week, what I'd be expecting. I shouldn't have sent that to you. It makes sense. Any contracts you're reviewed by? Yeah. That was all the things that I had in Culver to delivery the process for bidding, where it would be delivered. Is anything else like our answer? I think it's great. If we can get the thing in the ground before we should have more returns, I think it's wonderful. Yeah, it would be great. That was our goal. Right. And that's why I'm so excited about the Culver, to get it, get it, get it. Yeah, that would be great. And that's a little more huge help. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. The board had asked me about the Culver being a little bit of a scratch there. So maybe they might be interested to compare it. Yeah, I haven't got a good one. I thought that was the best choice. Most of our large culverts now would have switched from galvanized steel or epoxy-coated steel to aluminum, because it lasts so much longer. In the factory, a steel culver coated with epoxy or galvanized last. It's great. But as soon as it's actually assembled, all the pieces rubbing together are scratched, and you're putting the ground you in. Absolutely, put a nick in it. In the grand scheme of things, a huge 22-foot wide culver is scratched, as long as it's not a big deal. But overall, this culver, because it's a little bit slightly thicker than it would be if it's steel, but its lifespan is 50 to 75 years in place. I think you'll find that most people are going to that. The galvanized steel has been, traditionally, a little bit cheaper. But actually, in the last year or so, with different overseas uses of steel and prices of steel going up and down, the aluminum and steel are pretty much dead-level right now. So I always check that with what we like onwards from aluminum was the recommendation given price, fabrication time, and longevity. And so that's what I decided to go with. And I think the reason the question came up is I think it was in our minds that it was a concrete box culver. That's what we were thinking from day one and never had considered an aluminum carriage culver. So that's why the question came up. Large open span culverts, we're going to aluminum now. Concrete box culverts have some restriction on how open span they can be. They're also extremely heavy. And actually, right now, the cost to pre-cast them is more expensive than these aluminum was selling culverts. And I think that was why we were so nervous by the time. Because the concrete box culverts lead time is long time. And I've had to eat in a bag. So I don't think we're a question of aluminum versus galvanized. That's fine. I'm happy to answer it. I'm looking at it every time. Our question was, wow, it's aluminum, not concrete. That was a surprise. And we go through that on every design. Is this, in some cases, a very steep grade, some really, really tricky spot to get into. That's to hold up a lot of weight or retain a big bank. Aluminum is not the way to go with a concrete. You basically buy a concrete bridge in a box. It's set in place. This is a huge, flat, open spot, easy to get to. I think this is the right choice for the economy and also for longevity. And how's the concrete going to be put in? Is that free fab, or is it portable? There's no concrete in this process at all. What's the foundation? The foundation is three feet of crushed stone on top of fabric. The head walls are aluminum as well. They're bolted together, assembled with tie-backs that go up under the road. So there are certain applications where a concrete cradle head wall is required to hold out aluminum or steel culvert in place. And mostly that has the aluminum bankments, really steep in bankments where you're pulling back a lot of soil. These aluminum head walls will work, but they're not ideal. And that's when we switch to a concrete head wall and create it. What keeps the aluminum cutting into the ground, into their stone? This is a foot. It's got a floor. It has a floor. This isn't just a hoop stuck in a thing. It actually has a curved rib bottom with reinforcements that build a big plate. So I'm happy to show you the design if you want. And the whole thing is aluminum. Yup. Floor, the walls, the roof, everything, the head walls are all aluminum. Make a great story. I mean, it's like a quonset. I mean, the old fashioned quonset happened to floor our culvert's got. Really? Yup. I'm happy to show it to you. If you look at this, you can see I had a three-dimensional drawing that I didn't bring unfortunately, but it's the same ribbing as the. It's filled with two feet of large diameter stone to hold it down and also provide a natural habitat for either fish or aquatic habitat. Over the years, between those big stones, the silt and sand filts in between it and creates a natural bottom. Is this the one that's going in? Yes, it is. So it's 22 feet across? Yup. 24, 2 foot open span and 6 and 1 half feet tall. Set two feet into the substrate. So the opening you'll see is only 4 and 1 half feet. You can walk through it, bent over, but when you're 22, watch. You're going to throw up the canoe. Yeah, duck, what are you going to throw up the canoe? The 22 foot wide clear span was basically, it is a massive watershed that feeds that end of Berlin pond. Now, it's not a rushing river because it hits its huge wetland in the open pond, but sized on 2,500 year floods, you want to let that water go through rather than go over the road or push the culvert out. So V-trans recommendation from their hydraulic department was a 22 foot clear span opening or a bridge. And so this aluminum culvert is a much more economical choice than the full and concrete bridge or steel bridge. So that would just think it'd be a little bit wider than the one we've got there. I mean, it really is just a pressure relief valve, technically between two lakes. If I was designing it from scratch, I would probably fix it a little bit bigger than once there. I might not have gone to this big, but when you're using V-trans funding, you're kind of tied to their recommendations. Or you have to have a really strong case why you're not going to do that. And I thought we would spend more money fighting it than actually pulling them right in front of you. We know what's big enough. Yeah. It sounds mostly future proof, too. So yeah. Get it in the ground, keep it down, back up. So tomorrow you're going to send me the agreement with Percy. I'll send it over to Rob. Get it back to you to set up something next week. And then you're going to tell them to go. Yes, I can tell them to go. You've already ordered the culvert, so that's coming. I'm going to, you know, with your permission, I was going to have Percy arrange for unloading it. And so that they can inspect it, see it, since they're going to be responsible for putting it in place. Rather than have your highway crew unload it, or maybe get all the pieces, things like that. That's going to be a lot of responsibility for you. I'd rather they have to do that. OK. I'll contact Percy tomorrow and explain to them about it. Let's speak with Tim Davis about any help that you might need or something. And where he wants it to go. OK. And the only thing that I want to just remind you of Richardson Road is our next project. And I've realized we're anxious to get this one done. We will be in a position to do some further work with Richardson Road. OK. Yeah, at Richardson Road, we also had contact work with us to size that, because we put in an initial application for the state when we did this one too. And you're awarded this, but not that one. Yes. So just as a preview, the Richardson Road one is of a similar size, similar width and opening, similar height. And I'm not sure whether we can do all of it this year. We'll have to plan, because we did not get instructions grant for Richardson Road. OK. Tim, we're calling next year. I think so. Sure. Yeah. I would. Yeah. So what's the case that tell me no? Right. I mean, this year is to get this done and then do you want us to be doing some design work over the winter, or do you want to wait and see if you get that grant in the late spring? You and I can talk about that. OK. Let me know. Here we are. OK. So I just brought the drink up. Perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you. Proof of licenses permit to go up this afternoon. Move to approve general fund accounts payable warrant number 19G05 with checks 18395 through 18452. In the amount of $140,181.54. Also to void check 18404 in the amount of $500. Also general fund accounts payable warrant number 18NSB15 in the amount of $5,970.53. Also payroll warrant number 19-05 for payroll from August 19, 2018 through September 1, 2018 in the amount of $40,596.38. So any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Those opposed? Motion carries. And the Berrytown fund chickens? Jim, you're irregular at least, me. Yeah? I was just wondering what sort of tolerance you folks had right here with me. Sit here and talk to me. I don't care to talk to you. And then I got to tell you, pluses and minuses to all things. After watching my backside go in front of that camera a few times on the internet, I'm probably going to be adjusting my diet. Oh, no. I think when you were here last time, the board had asked me to check out the insurance that VAST has. And I do have their insurance policy, which is a 6 million aggregate insurance policy. I did speak with our insurer at Passive. He feels it's an additional liability that the town should think carefully before taking. He feels that this insurance is always a possibility, since this is statewide, it's the VAST insurance. So he says that it may not be an entire 6 million, but they would cover our liability needs. However, if there were an issue, we'd be paying for it for a number of years, like we do when you have clients. You had sent me these statutes. Which is a good copy of that. Wait, I don't know if you wanted to talk about that first, but I did send that over to our attorney today to have a look at it. And he feels that these statutes, while it relates to public and private lands, not so much on public roads, he feels it's different that the statute wasn't written for that purpose. He also told me that we should really think carefully before going forward with that, although he did tell me that the liability that we would have on public roads is different than it's like a motorist on a public road. Unless we know of a safety issue that, and if we don't address it, then we're on the hook. We don't know of it. He did mention that the statute mentions that each individual snowmobile owner, and I'm sure most of you do, have insurance. You're required to. And you are required to. But we are not, obviously, if we can't be checking, make sure we can have insurance. So I guess, Brad, this is where I am with that. We've done so far. Did you have something new that you wanted to talk to the board about? Yes, I did. And I realized this has a little bit of a last call sort of a feel to think. So just under the realm of doing due diligence for my own personal to know I've not missed something just frequently when you're doing things verbally, you're going on. I forgot to talk about that or do that sort of a thing. And just by the way, this is Nick Sargent. He is the trails coordinator for the Lost Nation ATV Club in Northfield who's been working with us on that. We'll have as much more experience for our ATV travel on roads and such. And I believe he even has some copies of the ordinances of the towns that they do there. That's the working value. The first thing is, since the last meeting, I've spent some more time up here traveling back and forth on the roads looking around. And some of the other folks involved in the projects have been going around. And we now have a proposed route change for the sled traffic so that you would no longer have to be looking at going down Black Road or Berfield Road with sled traffic in order to move up around and connect in up above where the city of Mount Bigger property stops. I believe from looking at from what I've seen, that would be slightly above the wooden bridge that's up there without knowing it specifically along there. But there was a landowner that we had previously thought was not going to allow for the sleds to travel there. But apparently one of the locals talked with him. And that seemed to be an open possibility now. We haven't signed any papers. And as a good friend of mine's dad used to say it's all BS until cash register rings. But tentatively, we've got permission from folks that we could do that so that the sled traffic wouldn't have to go down Black Road or down Berfield Road in order to get there. You would still have to pass through over the water and under the bridge, which is really, without that, there isn't any access to the services. And I cannot imagine that the organizations they represent are going to put any time or money into building the trail if it's not access to services. We've got first class services here. It seemed to change that we couldn't find some way to connect that and make that go. But a lot of these things come down to as we're thinking through that, trying to mark, OK, what should I talk about? Because I don't know that any of you folks belonging to any of these organizations are having to work in it or anything like that. Essentially, what are they offering to do for the town? They're offering to take any part of the trail system that becomes prior to a club trail and assume responsibility for all construction maintenance and signage and take care of all those things. And we're the first people they call if somebody's dropped a beer can in the woods or something's going on and they got off the trail, they call us. Dave Rulo, our club president, has a very good relationship with the local law enforcement. And usually it comes, he calls in and makes him, you know, somebody's out there and somebody's ready to take it for something and it probably goes away. They had, I went to the website trying to find out about a meeting for the conservation committee and one of the things that came away from it appears that they're undermanned and they're looking for help. So I would think that any help that they could get and keeping the chairs up and clean and the brush cleaned up and everything would be welcome from their standpoint. I didn't, however, make a connection with them to find out if there was a meeting this week or not, not sure about that. I'm sure there's somebody that has emailed me that I haven't returned it or anything like that. So what's going on with that? You know, and as far as, you know, from that angle of it and I'm always hesitant to talk about money and these things, because it seems a little crash to use that as a motivation for people, but that also means that there is no trail, there's no riders and there's no revenue they bring, well, these people spend money. They're not afraid to when they come and wherever they go, them and the other times they bring their kids in their lives and they stay and do that as well, which that's a piece of the puzzle that they bring along with that, along with doing that and providing recreational opportunities for the local residents. My experience is it's not five minutes after you lay down a trail that folks are starting to use it. We don't have any problem with people doing that. In the wintertime, people cross country ski, they snowshoe, they walk their dogs. It's, that's part of the process. I mean it's on, we are at the pleasure of the land that we're on and people use it as they will and as long as the landowners don't care, we don't mind, as long as everybody just understands that we're all sharing stuff and we gotta watch out for each other that we don't run into something along the way. You know, what they bring, then who are they? I mean, that's one of the things I find, some things make them state you think that other people know what you know. You know, that people don't see snow machines, they see ATVs. The people, our members are predominantly laces drivers. Most people, there are very few. If you're in, if you're a prior to bass, you have to be like, they're mandated to take a safety course before you can be on the trail. They're reasonable people that use the roads every day. They know how it works. You know, you stop and look both ways. You also know you're the smallest guy on the road. If there's a safety issue, chances are you're gonna be on the wrong end of it. So you're really extra vigilant to be sure that that's the last thing you're looking for is to go out on a day and be caught in the middle of something. That they travel up and down the road all day long. I've got, you know, as an example, I just pulled this up off in my GPS. This is actually a trail I rode on personally this year, going down four and a half miles to State Highway on an ATV in Berlin, New Hampshire, rolling right into downtown to the restaurant and the gas station and out the other side. There are many towns over there where they're going to answer as part of that ride, right downtown, right to the hotel. They actually have a rental place right there. So you've got people that aren't even regular riders that come out and manage to navigate the highways and byways and there and go. They seem to be able to do it just fine. How do you enforce your rules, your club rules? The most likely thing you see is that we work with enforcement that they go out onto intersections, usually in the morgue, but they usually take from places quite likely easier to get to and they literally put troopers right on the trail and you get stopped. It's probably four or five times a year, I bump into them and you get the word, they're the same guys, you get to know them and they check all your paperwork and everything that's there, put a sticker on your sled saying yes, we've already checked, you have insurance, you have, you've got a vast membership and that sort of thing. And the other stuff is more case by case. If something, obviously you're out here where it's out in the open where people see them and one of the pluses of this is law enforcement is right here. You've got a favorite people, if you're not gonna be careful here, you're probably not going to anywhere where you're right here on plain sight. You know, and from the boom beyond the members, the organizations themselves, they've been doing this for over 50 years. Mass has been in business for 20 years. I've been doing this for almost 50 years. If anybody knows where a safe place to make a trail is they should know and I assure you they would not be endorsing me being here talking to you if they felt they were gonna be creating safety issues for anybody or liability issues or anything. That they know this better than anybody where you can, where you can't, and where you shouldn't be. And if they're not concerned, I've got to believe that we should be able to manage and navigate a short piece of the country road. Part of what we've talked about, they've heard mention of traffic volume and that sort of thing and I understand all that. But my personal experience, I haven't been a resident here for a long time, but I've been up here a lot this summer looking at all these things. I've yet to see a car on Black Road other than me. I came up here twice in the last, since the last meeting, traveled in here, looked around. I did look around here to see, I didn't wanna get out and walk around without you guys knowing about poking around in your backyard as a way to get around here to get to the road, which, that comes up, we can talk about that later. But in those two trips, traveling this entire route up and down, back and forth around here, I saw a combined 11 vehicles. In two nights after work. I didn't, however, see, I had to literally stop my car and wait for people standing in the middle of the road talking over there for them to figure out which side of the road to get to so they could go. And I saw kids literally sitting on bicycles as I used to do the same thing on the country road when I was their age, literally sitting in the middle of the road up above the intersection standing there talking, which said to me that the locals know that this is, we're not talking about the interstate here. That there's, obviously, there's traffic, obviously there's higher times, but it's a country road and it shouldn't bear that. As to that end, I took a snippet of that off from the trail map. This is a picture of where the trail crosses under the interstate on exit five. The Snowmobile trail crosses, I believe there's at least five different pieces of the road across, and one of them is the south bound off ramp of the interstate. And that's been going on for years with no incident that I'm aware of. Once again, showing that the people that do this stuff, they know what they're doing. They're not just gonna be pulling out traffic and doing any foolishness. This is just a snippet I grabbed of a trail that they've got up in Newport that literally goes right downtown, right to the restaurant there, where the slides come into town. That, and there was some discussion about that. And quite frankly, I wasn't really that happy with my own self about the way I talked about how do these machine trails around the road? It didn't feel like it rejected a very clear picture of that. The sleds don't like to be on dry ground. So they will stop at the edge of the road, and where necessary, like over a bridge or something, as soon as they can, they wanna be up on the snow bank or it's flattened off. So they generally, it gets packed on each side and they drive the part where they have to. As far as an ATV, it's essentially, it's a miniature car. You follow the same rules about the only thing that's different for that is there's usually a posted speed limit that's much slower for ATV traffic than there is for off-road traffic. And you essentially stop at the side of the road. If we were to use the proposed thing I saw the other day, it looks to me like there's plenty of room to come out of the back of the travel center along the edge of the trees and loop around, you only need about six feet wide for an ATV traffic to get around the end of the rink and you'd be using maybe 100 feet of shed road. It'd really be no different than somebody's driveway being there. I mean, people stop, both ways there's somebody coming late to pull out. There was some mention about meeting sleds and that sort of stuff. They're gonna be coming if they're there single filed down the road, watching out for you because they're a lot more scared of you than you are of them. You're at march, more exposed. People are generally pretty careful. I've been out there a long time and I'd like to think that the miles don't show but I guess you can notice I've got a few miles on me and I've been around out there and so far it's all gone fairly well. Are people using these trails night and day? The generally in ATV trails, the rule is a half hour before and a half hour after dusk and that's a rule of thumb that most places adapt. The landowners can set whatever rules they want to. I think of you as a landowner only that we come to a meeting as opposed to knocking on your door. You have total control over what happens there. You can revoke the permission at any time for any reason. Municipalities, normally it's an annual thing. We set the parameters in the beginning. We do a trial basis to see how A, the project as a whole goes and the route and signs and that sort of thing. If things come up along the way, just as we go and once a year in Berrytown, Dave shows up to the meeting and they go through and if there's somebody new there they're using more questions. If it's the same group, I don't know how you guys for turnover though, it's usually they go there and if there've been any issues that already would have come up and been dealt with and they grant permission year to year. And as far as any of the other stuff, I, it's somewhat baffling to me. Some of it, I mean we use the roads and places all over the place, been doing it for years as to some of the things that we've said about people wanting to be really concerned about that and all of it happens in other towns that seems to be getting along fine. I'm not sure if we ever, some mentioned about the city, where the League of Cities was up, the city's in town. Was that as in, you know, as to, if it's happening in other places and seems to be okay, I'm not sure the level, I mean I understand for you guys for the first time around but for an organization like them, that was a little confusing here that. I'd never heard of anything like that before. So I'm not doubting they said it, it's just seemed I hadn't heard that before. You mean as far as not recommending it? Right. Well I think any insurance, your insurance is always telling you to take as little risk as possible. I think that is what the message is. Well that makes a lot more sense. My insurance guy would probably tell me I should throw it over here in the first place. He certainly should tell me if he saw me on TV I should be adjusting my diet sir. Exactly. If Nick is there anything that you'd like to add if there are questions there? Yes, here's a copy of our ordinances that we have in Roxbury and Northfields. We've also worked with Braintree. I'll go to them year by year. We don't. We have some highly sensitive trails with some landowners upper class from Connecticut from Washington DC. If there is a screw up, we're gonna know about it, we're gonna lose the trails. And one landowner wouldn't even give us permission, wouldn't talk to me for like a year, fine after two years, doesn't allow us on the backsides, probably didn't want us on the road. And now he said he'll endorse us. He has a full respect of us. We're good with him, he says we can't, we've done everything we've told him to do and he's just happy that we're working together. But he gave us a letter of recommendation, I couldn't find that in my file. But we have, once in a while we'll have a little incident, not an incident, but a little complaint. Maybe once, I think a year, two years. And normally once it was the amount of traffic we had in one day, we had a poke run and they didn't like that, so we don't have that. We have smaller then and we haven't had a complaint since about that. So we try to take care of our trails, we keep them in use every year. So I guess the question is if we want to take a reinstate. We would have to, at this point, we would have to write an ordinance. We would have a public hearing, like we do with ordinances. It would take 60 days I guess for it to take effect. Thank you for the examples. Speaking for myself, I don't have any question that the club is honorable and does the right thing. That's not it at all. I am concerned about Crosstown Road and Shedd Road. Have you done any, is there any way you could get to the highway underpass, Crosstown Road? Have you done any sort of discussion with, and I'm not sure you have to go across the pond at the brook, I guess. All right, now, from what I've seen so far, which it would be pretty awesome if someone here knew something different because that would be a better solution for everyone. My understanding is the folks that own the building where the driveway that drops down with that would not be a problem for us to cross their property, but to get across the water, at least the maps I've seen, it appears to me that the city of Montpelier has something that runs right up on each side of that. And I didn't know I did. I may be wrong, but when I look at the map, I've got an app that brings up the Joe's property lines that's on the internet, so it must be true, as to where they are. But it looks like they board some sort of right away or something on each side of the water that goes out through there. I don't know that if you can, it would, my first thought was, can you go out and get near enough to the highway about being in there right away? There might be a covert going up and over or something, but once again, that hasn't, I'm not literally on out there, walked around. They walk around supply, so their line is under there, their transmission line. Something, I mean, that would be a better solution for all if that came part of that. Honestly, in the long run, as a rider, I would much prefer to come whether I was on a sled or a four wheeler to come out this way than to go out that way. The road's not a problem, but you get the big parking lot trying to figure out who's on first and what's going on. It's a lot simpler. If you just know, you just come out of the back. That's where you go. When you get gas, go to the back of the parking lot. As to, if you know it, it's very easy to navigate. But if you don't know where you're going, you know, and you can get, it's easier to get confused out there. If, are, my idea, are you thinking that maybe there, I figured some of that, there was open water out there helped out. I honestly don't know. It's just, I just came to my head thinking. All right. Well, maybe we can go out there and walk around there as long as, you know, we don't like to get poke around too much without people knowing what's going on out there. That certainly would be better in the long run. I don't know. I think you would still be looking as though there's just another driveway on the other side. And you might be involved with the city as well, because of that. I might be with that. I mean, it does seem to be. One of the many things, questions that arise, that, you know, that I don't always have the answers to, what specifically are we concerned about on Shed Road? I mean, what, for lack of a better way, people ask me, what do they think is going to happen when I say that kind of thing? I really don't know. I guess I'll have to ask a more specific question. What are the specific concerns about the Shed Road? Let's say particularly if we could get in from here and just use like a hundred feet of it down there. Well, when I think of Shed Road, I mean, we have the highway trucks coming in and out, especially during a snowstorm. And so they're coming in and out. We've got the police coming in and out. We have citizens coming in and out. Is it busy, busy, busy? No. But I'm just thinking that in an ideal situation, it's not ideal. Just sometimes in the police lead, they're going other speed on it. That happens. I mean, you know, they're in and out quickly. Yeah. And then of course you have to sit in the town trucks with the plows and the wings and everything else. Yeah, which, They take up some road. Oh yeah. I mean, if I were on a snowmobile, I'd certainly get way to the 10-wheel truck. But yeah, most likely we'd be home shoveling my art when that was going on. It's supposed to be out there, but I'm not sure what else there is for me to say. A lot of these things come down to, it's like for me, the indecision I made is, you know, what's my motivation about it? You never know in a situation whether the town's got to give me, you seem to be a recreation-friendly sort of place. I mean, they've got you set aside the place. So it seemed like a natural sort of thing for that. If the club's bringing the trails in there, if that's not really something that town is a whole, would rather that we didn't, then it doesn't really matter. You know, what we talked about, because that's really what it comes down to, because we can find plenty of evidence to show we do it in other places and it all gets along fine. You know, that's really that. It really just comes down to, but obviously it is a change and it is something that's there, plus minuses of all things and that sort of stuff. And I suspect that's what it will come down to is whether the group as a whole feels like this is, yes, we'd like to have this here. We'd like to have the benefits of it. We think that the residents can do that. I bumped into plenty of people up there that actually met a guy that, he's got three machines, so he makes two trips every Saturday morning down with his truck and his trailer unloaded down here and drives a mile back up the road and gets another one and everything and he says, I'm just getting to work. So this is, I can see the damn thing almost in my house except I can't get there. So just to clarify, you're talking about using some of Shed Road and from Shed Road under the Interstate Bridge and then how far beyond it? For flood traffic, we would be looking at coming up the old pond road, the old dirt roads by the end of here. You come out of there, turn across over the water, go underneath the interstate. And if you go up there now, someone has been bush hot even right down over the hill right before we're proposing that we would go up into private property there. The ATVs in order to get there would come out of the back. That seems like if we'd all could be worked out, it would be way better than sending them on the main road. And the landowners over there at this point are not one to let summer traffic come through. They don't find the winter, but they didn't want the summer, which you know, same round that. And for ATVs, we don't have permission at this point to use the Woodstrail, that could come in time, but that would be still looking at Black Road and down that section from where the intersection of Brookfield to where the parking right is there. So there, I thought of it in four sections as I was planning it in my head and one of them has now, we've got an alternate to that to get around there. And if I may add, our typical usage on our trails on a given weekend is typically five ATVs a day. It's not much during the week. You might see a couple in the afternoon, but not much at all. And if you got familiar at all with Lovers Lane in Northfield, we go down a short section of that to get to the South Village mobile. Now, as we were talking last night, we actually got five sections of State Highway now that the machines traveled along, being Route 25 in Wisconsin. I would suspect with the enticements that are here that there'd be more than five machines on a weekend. I probably would expect that, but most of it, you do see something, people on vacation and that sort of thing, but mostly it's outside of business hours. That most people that have these machines that cost money and they're working all day, you know, there's some evening traffic and then it's usually weekends. I being on the higher demographic tend to start a little earlier than many. A lot of them don't care rolling until noon or so after that. We're more, I trade more around evening hours for morning hours every year. So we're usually more excited than earlier in the morning and going. I'm not sure what else that I can offer or other than thank you for your time. I'm sure you're probably getting ready for somebody else to be sitting in this chair talking to you about things at this point. What happens from here for a Mars, what should I be thinking about doing from here? That's probably a good question. Well, the first thing we're gonna have to do is see if we wanna take and enact a new ordinance for the travel. Okay. After that, then you probably have to go through a mission process. If there, when there's a public hearing, everybody, we would have to publish what this route might be. Okay. And then everybody that lives on that route will be able to come and say their piece. Yeah, I mean, I would expect it that way. There we go, there we go. So, and that, what sort of a time frame does that? What kind of, is this, what do you think, a couple of months? Well, it depends if the board instructs me to go ahead and draft an ordinance and schedule a public hearing. Right, so we should, maybe we should make some indication about whether this is something that we really wanna do before we ask Dana to do that. I mean, we're hearing from Dana and I'm not hearing big encouraging noises there. We're hearing from the police chief. I'm also not hearing recommendations there. We're hearing from the town attorney. We're hearing from the insurance. I understand the, some of the economic benefits. I mean, it makes sense, but the people that are being paid to give us advice are giving us advice, that's my thought. Speaking for myself, I very much support recreation and if it wasn't quite so much time on a town road, I might look at it differently, but I think you have a great organization. I think you do a good job and I have no question that people do the right thing, but I do have to listen to my safety people and listen to what they tell me. Well, the other part of this also is that you have citizens of the town that aren't of motor recreation and yet they're the one that pays the safety people. And what I think we're doing here, we're not allowing the citizens of the town to have a say in this. We're living with a lot of the higher health tells us. Fair enough. That's why I think a public, I mean, I don't think it's a harm in a public hearing. If I lived on Black road, I would certainly be at the public hearing. And if I lived on Comstock road, now it's normal to be at the public hearing. But I think that we work for the public. I think we need to hear what they have to say. That makes total sense. So that process, just to make sure that I'm following things, that that means I'm assuming that you guys will be talking amongst yourselves while we're not here. That's how I would do it. And like I was doing that to come to something. We'll be talking to the camera. Okay. You can walk right there. Yeah. I don't have to look in my back. I'd go by in front of the camera. I'd go by there. And if that's the decision to go forward, then there's a, I used to be always in the paper. I don't have to put it in the paper anymore. I assume they probably still do. Yes. One thing that we would ask that as this is presented to people, because how you ask the question shapes a lot about how you get the answer that we're, if we're looking at that in the three separate segments, we would not want to have the ATV folks not be able to have access because someone was thinking about, they didn't want a snowmobile going by their house. That, because it could very well be, you could very easily say, yes, we'll let ATVs go over here, but you can't put snowmobiles over the river, sort of the thing. Because it's not an all for one, for the organizations it certainly is, but not, but not literally. What you're saying is it can be one or the other. Right. It could very well be into not have people thinking that, well, you know, I don't mind the ATVs, but I don't want the sleds going by, so I have to go, no. Is the board thinking of having a public hearing first before you make a decision? We don't know yet, David. You don't know yet? They're waiting for us to get out of here, so they can, okay, sir. Yes, sir. But just wondering if you would want me to find that copy of the recommendation and then send it to you guys so that you guys can look over what his concerns were and then do you think you're not just hearing from someone, you actually have some proof in front of them? I would say whatever you have that you can share with us, yeah, that would be great. So is that something to send email to the counter? You can send it to me. Dan's very responsive, and it's been more than anything you said. I'll give you a card. Okay, have it, yeah. So maybe if we had a public hearing in advance of us proceeding with writing the ordinance. That's what I'm thinking, yeah. We put it on the agenda as discussion for the use of Shed Road, Crosstown Road, Black Road, for motorized recreational vehicles and let the taxpayers come and talk to us about how they feel about it. So I think the chief should be here and he should tell us how he feels about it. The chief should be here and tell us how he feels about it. You know, I think that we should hear from everyone at this side whether we have a public hearing about the ordinance. And that's still happens, like similar to what we're doing here with just more people. Hopefully, okay. Right now we're kind of feeling our way blowing. Yeah. I don't want to say that I had an opinion on this without hearing from the public. No, it was more of the actual practical matters of what happens is folks come here, just hopefully more of them. Okay. Then if we can send out some, yeah, specific invites to people. And have a proposed group. Have you, could you take and give Dana a proposed route in the addresses? Where are you? The road stretchers. Yeah, where the roads go. I believe the only thing, when I provided our pictures with drawing on it to do that, but we certainly could. I don't know what to do. Is there something in writing versus a picture? Well, no, and another thing is, have you talked to everyone about this where you intend to cross their land? We'd hate to float around a drawing with a proposed route and have the taxpayers see the route on their property. Hey, what the hell's going on here? I guess that's a better way of putting it in there. I believe that we have. I, it's been reported to me that Josh about and spoken to the folks about which the, you know, to get around from there, he had reported to me, hey, I talked to this guy and this guy, he's all good. And we had talked to the people above the, I think there's three part of the owners from his place to get you over to the conservative conservation trail. There we go. But we certainly would want to revisit that. Do you want to double-check with him? Just make sure we're not missing something. I wouldn't want to see that in the paper myself. I can tell you that we at the Traveler Center didn't know anything about ATPs until I heard it here at this slide for a minute. So my only concern would be that a taxpayer sees a map with a trail across this land and doesn't know anything about it. Well, I was projected to me that the folks were in contact that knew the people that knew the people were keeping them 100% in the loop of things. But just here, apparently something got quite, before that map is circulated, I want to be sure of that. Because, well, absolutely. You don't want to start in a hostile environment. No? That wouldn't work out for a bit. If you could take and make sure that you have all your ducks in a row. All right. And when you go back, if you do go back to talking to the landowners, be sure to tell them, we'll set a time for this meeting and then you'll have a chance to make sure they're primed for it. Okay. Seems more reasonable. All right. Are we good? Is there anything else? We're good. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Yep. Thanks again. Thanks. Let's see here. Approval of select board minutes from 8, 6, 2018. I have one minor change for the August 6th meeting. Time to the Browns and Elmer open. Speed limits on page two. Chris Winters, yes? Yes, yes. Okay. Otherwise I move to approve the minutes of the August 6th, 2018 select board meeting with the previously noted change. Second. In the prior to the discussion, all those in favor seem to be saying aye. Aye. Motion carries and for the Monday, August 20th, 2018, select board minutes, approve the minutes for the August 20th, 2018 select board meeting as presented. Second. In the prior to the discussion, those in favor. All those opposed, motion carries. And Dana, your additions. Yes, the first one was a discussion on changing the meeting day. And that was requested by select board member, Capron. We meet currently the first and third Monday of the month regularly. Obviously this one's different. So it's clashing with Olivia, my daughter's girl scouts meetings. And I'm having, I can't be into places that once at the same time. It's only for this year. I don't even, you know, it's not like every month either because she alternates Mondays. Is there another day of the week that the town office is available under recurrence? We have right now, the DRB meets the first and third Tuesday of the month. So the board could meet, if they chose Tuesday, the second and fourth Tuesday. Planning meets second and fourth Wednesday. So the board could choose the first and third Wednesday. Thursday is an open day and Friday's not an option. And every other Monday, I have sewer and water public works for it. So second Tuesday, I had central Vermont internet. Thursday's slightly better. Thursday'd be the first and third. Tuesday would be second and fourth. And Wednesday would be first and third. Wednesday. And Thursday could be first and third or second or whatever. Wednesday's the same as Monday for me. Gives you a little bit more weekend. Wednesday doesn't work, but Thursday would work, I think. Thursday's slightly better for me because I don't have any classes. Oh my God, like 10 meetings left this morning. Yeah. It's all salary. So I mean, your tenure here is going to be the longest as it stands right now. I mean, you just got elected to the three-year seat, so. I have an issue on Wednesdays. I have an issue that my only issue with changing it to Tuesdays every, on the second and fourth is that I don't have meetings every Monday and Tuesday. Yeah, no, it's all fun. So, and I couldn't make half of those, right. So Thursday's probably the better. Sounds like a choice. And this could even just be a temporary thing. I could live on Thursdays. You wanna say Thursdays through next-time meeting? I'd have to hold our slot for the first one. Mondays. Well, I mean, just do a Stampede tip. Use the space right there. So my goal, goal disclosure, this start in November, December is gonna be between then and March to go away for eight or 10 four-day weekends through the winter and try to figure out where I might wanna play someday other than Vermont. So my plan is to go Thursdays and come back Mondays. I was trying to avoid slot board Mondays. But, so now I'll avoid slot board Thursdays because it's all the same. Yeah. So I can make that work. So for us to formally adopt this, should we put this on the next meeting agenda? Or because we didn't order this. I would put it on the next meeting agenda. We have one more voice to hear from you. Thank you. But I mean, yeah, I think in principle, there's not that much difference to be whether it's Monday or Thursday. I'll just miss this. You know, I'll come to select board meeting Thursday and really Friday and miss the sewer board meeting on Monday. What's wrong with just having to figure that out? He'll figure it out. Yeah. All right, so I'll put that on the agenda for the September 17th meeting. And I'd also need some time to notify, put notice out so that people understand it's changing. I've contacted the Girl Scouts once and have not gotten a reply about switching her group so that she would switch the day. I have not heard back. So I can also reach out to them again. Well, you'll have two weeks before the next meeting too. Problem this time, I won't email. Alternate signer, open the signer. Yes, this is for the Revolving Fund loans. That we have for the water division and the sewer division when we send in our request for reimbursement of the bills that we've paid. Currently, I'm the only one that can sign those for that. And I certainly can do that. However, they suggest that there's two people in the event I get hit by a bus. What was the, for the water and sewer loan? Yeah, we have the 90,000 loan with the state for the Revolving Fund. That's for the exploratory work for the water and a similar loan for sewer, which is for 42,000. So do you and Tom often walk on the same road with the bus coming in? Well, sometimes we're in the same bus, you know. Are we talking about making Tom the signer? I am talking about making Diane the alternate signer. Move to add Diane the Isabella Town Treasurer as the alternate signer for the drinking water revolving fund and sewer revolving fund. Also revolving fund. And sewer revolving fund. Second. Well, the only other question there is if you have the treasurer sign off on, is there a conflict there? Or is there any? Well, I don't think so. And it's because the treasurer, this is just a bookkeeping thing. But the treasurer is the one claiming for the reimbursement. And it's, I get an email telling what they've got when they're sending it, so forth. And so we have that double check that way. I also am the one that does the reconciliation of the bank account. So I know that it's there. All those in favor? Aye. Those opposed, motion carries. So this needs the sign of the chair and then also board members underneath. Yes. Move to recess the select board. We need a little control board. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. We have a request for a catering license from bombastic industries doing business as the Blue Donkey for a party at the Outdoor CrossFit competition at Green Mountain CrossFit 654 Granger Road. We have had a previous license with this bender. We have not had in trouble. They want to be signed up. Where are they from? Stowe. He is from Stowe. And that's just the fear of time that the, you know, the little event they're having up there. Move to approve. Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. We need to adjourn the liquor control board and recess the select board. Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Town Administrative Court, Dana? You know, I have a few things that I'd like to mention to you. One is we have had several, I won't call them complaints, but several concerns brought to us about a gentleman who was parking over at the pond in the Fish and Wildlife Law. And I have reached out to Fish and Wildlife to ascertain because it's the least land. I don't really have the power to stick a sign up. So I did reach out to Mike Prakowski over there and with the concerns that we're having and he is going to work on a physical trauma to see if he can get a sign put up. However, he did mention that his access area is open 24-7. Is there camping allowed? But he did not mention any loud camping. Just so that you know that we are ever so slowly working on that. The other item, and I sent you an email regarding a meeting that is being held at the end of September. The Medical Center is starting planning on possibility of a new inpatient parental health facility at the hospital. I do plan to go to that September 27th meeting. I guess my concerns, I really would like to know more about it, to understand what our concerns would be. As you know, we have an agreement with the state of the psychiatric hospital. I'm not sure if this is similar, but I do think that we need to be cognizant of that. Tom spent a lot of time working on the insurance program for the flood planes and so forth to get people in flood planes to reduce insurance rate. We did receive a plaque the other day from them because we had done such a good job and I was really surprised, it's only six pounds in Vermont that did that. And we were wondering, so I just had a shout out to Tom. After the last meeting, Browns Mill Road, you approved that, that the ordinance has been published in the paper. If we don't, if we here have no feedback on that, it would be effective October 19th. We went to order a children at play sign and we were told that the state no longer recommends those because it encouraged children in the play in the road. So, oh my God, there you are. Did you ever find out how much one of those little radar signs are? How much they cost? I haven't read. Do you see them pulling that, whose brother's heading down the street? No. They're pulling on the permanent ones, they're on that. It's a 25 mile an hour speed sign. Yeah. And right below it they put a permanent radar sign. It's got the blue flasher in the center of it, it catches your attention. Really? I set it off every morning. And I do pay attention to it. Yeah. Well, I know that like any player, like Waitesfield, Montpelier, any time you, other than the high school, any time you see a school, they always have those signs up. I think it does get people's attention. So, I just found a news article from 2015 that said they were buying units for 3,600 each. And I do know that ours does not, I thought you should say it's a button that doesn't keep up history, you know? But I was thinking of the sign that goes on to a post. It's permanent. Like the small one that has the blue thing flashing. Yeah. I just wondered how much those were. I could find out, I don't know. What's going to eBay even now? I'm sure you're going to use it. Amazon. Yeah. Just go out and play with my guitar. But I thought it was interesting. It was a GPS tracker. And I haven't spoken with Sarah about the children who played him, but Jim could not get. I was just thinking of that one, those little flashing signs would be a good substitute. Somebody stole my little yellow man on Ace Road. First, they put it at the end on 62. 62 down there? Yeah. So I grabbed it and it went back to my yard. And then they... Well, that's because it was a legal one I had. It was encouraging people to wave a flag. Wave a flag, unnecessarily. Your kids play your role. We have some interest in alternate members of the BRB. I'm going to invite these people that are interested in to meet you next time. Or possibly them. And I'm hoping you're interested in meeting them. I'd like to encourage people who are willing to volunteer to volunteer. The Stormwater Project, which is for the town office, we received three, and this is being managed by the Planning Commission, but we did receive three proposals. Bob Wernick and myself are reviewing them in addition to the Planning Commission. This is an $8,000 project. So I don't know how interesting that is with people, but we did have interests of three. This is to come up with a plan of how we deal with our stormwater. The police department doors, I did reach out to several people, and I had some response of people that came and looked at it. Portland Glass came and looked at it. Lodge and S looked at it. The year four looked at it. And a gentleman named Andy Emerson from Northfield looked at it. So I should know sometime soon about getting that project done. That's good. The town plan that's hit the snag, the Regional Planning Commission did not approve it asking for some further clarification. So Tom and I and Carla are working with Regional Planning to see if we can resolve this easily without having to send this back to you for approval and back to the voters for approval. This should not have happened. We had a consultant and... Is it substantive? I mean, how big would you say it was? There is one area that would be what I consider a substantive change. I am trying to, back in 2012, and I didn't know this until they told me of the Planning Commission, that the town plan was approved with the idea that things would be changed in the next plan. And so they kind of gave us a pass. But I didn't know that. And, but I'm hoping that that's one way maybe we could appeal to them. If we do have to go back to this, what do you think the probability is? I mean, the big process was, what do you think the probability is and we could get it back? Tell me. Well, back in front of the voters in November. It's not possible. We don't have enough time. We're all the, all the time required to get it back, we need time and so forth. So it would be inevitable. I mean, no, why? But I'm hoping we don't have to do that. Jeremy? I've been thinking more about the fire department and actually some of the things that I think that we sort of back burner. I admit that right now I don't have those in front of me, but I think possibly in the next month or so we might want to consider starting up a charter change committee and looking at some of the other changes to the charter that we've sort of talked about over the past few years. The last change that we had created the public works board. We made some other minor changes that I know that Tom Clerk wanted regarding regulating animals and that sort of thing would be. But as I recall, not long after that there was some discussion about other things that also could be modified or changed in that as well. And I don't, like I said, I don't remember that, but I think thinking about the status of the fire department as one of the biggest changes in this that might be a worthwhile thing to do. Okay, move to adjourn. Motion. Second. Those in favor? Aye. Aye. We're adjourned.