 Okay, we are are live, I believe. All right. Hello. Welcome. Welcome to whoever and whatever. I have it. I don't think I've hosted a lot show in a very long time. I've been doing a lot of like patron chats where I don't have to like, I can just be like, Hey guys. You know who I am. Welcome to my channel. I mean, again, people should know who you are. But if you like to introduce yourself in case they don't know who you are, or actually, I mean, do introduce yourself. I love that. But like also into, I think I on Instagram got it right. But if not, like, what is your experience with the works of George RR Martin? Like, what have you read or seen or know or whatever before House of the Dragon? Yes. So I'm Bethany from Beautifully Bookish Bethany. You know, we sometimes like the same books and sometimes really don't. And co-host chapter three podcast. So, you know, been friends a while now. Game of Thrones. I've never seen the show. And I read two and a half of the books. Years ago. Like, more than, more than 10 years ago, I would say. Okay. So you probably forgot most of the details. Yeah. I mean, I remember some things from the first book, like there are some things that stick out to me. And then I know some stuff just from it being in the cultural zeitgeist, you know, like I think. You know who Jon Snow is. I know who Jon Snow is. And you know that Jon Snow knows nothing. You don't know that. I don't know that. Okay. So yeah, so I didn't, so not much. I didn't go into this with a lot of knowledge, but Leanna talked to me, eventually talked to me into watching House of the Dragon. It was partly because while we were watching Rings of Power, because simultaneously House of the Dragon was airing and you were watching Rings of Power, but not House of the Dragon. And I was like every single week, I'm like, Bethany, there's this other show happening right now that I promise you it's 10 million jokes better than this. And you were like, I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in Rings of Power. And I was dying. You know what? I'm glad I didn't watch them at the same time, though, because I just don't think they're comparable. Well, as I said, one million times the food metaphor I've used is like that Rings of Power's plot is like two little butters scraped over too much bread as Bilbo Baggins would have it. And that House of the Dragon, each episode is like a burrito that has too many fillings and you can't quite like fold it over because it's like bursting. So like having this like absolute thin stretched nothing of a plot versus the one that's like, we don't have time for any dead space. We have so much plot to get through. It's a little bit like jarring to go between the two. Yeah. Well, and also the tone and the vibes of the shows are so vastly different. So I will say having watched House of the Dragon now, it makes a lot more sense to me why people because they were airing at the same time, why people were so like hating on Rings of Power so much. I think it might have done better if they hadn't been like simultaneous. I can tell you there's no point at which Rings of Power could have aired that I would have liked it. Maybe not you. Maybe not you. Maybe other people. But I still like I'm glad I didn't watch them together, but I am glad you eventually talked to me into watching House of the Dragon. I like that they aired at the same time just because it was like there are certain. This is not a Rings of Power stream, but there are certainly like invalid criticisms of Rings of Power people who are bigoted in all of the different ways you can be bigoted. But there's also a lot of people that just didn't like the show. And when people were like, oh, you don't like strong female characters. That's why you don't like working to the power and you're like, um, House of the Dragon is just fine. So I don't think that's it. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. It's it was a mix of people not liking it for various reasons. So yeah. Yeah. So going it, I mean, I told when you as I was like wearing you down and you were like, well, I haven't seen Game of Thrones. And I was like, it doesn't matter. You could watch it without ever having seen Game of Thrones. Was I correct? You were correct. Yeah. Well, because it takes place so far before it takes place, it doesn't feel like you need to know much going into it. Well, but Rings of Power does rely on you knowing Lord of the Rings. Oh, yeah. Oh, I wasn't talking about Rings of Power. No, but I'm saying because the Rings of Power takes place thousands of years before Lord of the Rings. Oh, yeah. Just because House of the Dragon takes place before it could still like do a lot of things where like it's a spuming you know. That's a good point. No, it doesn't really assume that you know anything. I don't, yeah. I mean, I think there's probably some illusions to things. Beth, the chat window is live. I see your comments. I don't see any other ones. Yeah. Hi. Hey. Um, but yeah, I think, I think I did find going in like I think there are references to things that probably end up being in Game of Thrones is what it seemed like, like the prophecy thing or something. Maybe, I don't know, but yeah, I don't think you really need to know anything to watch it. Yeah, the prophecy thing is kind of new. It's not in Fire and Blood. Hello. And it's not really in Game of Thrones, except in the so far as it's called A Song of Ice and Fire, like that book series. It's, yeah, there's never like this explicit prophecy that like akin to what we have in House of the Dragon. It's only not one that's like from the Targaryens themselves. There are a lot of prophecies in The Song of Ice and Fire. And so people are speculating about what those things mean and about who's going to like defeat the threat from the north, etc. And like the prince that, you know, like Azor Ahai is like a prophesied like savior type figure that everyone's like who is Azor Ahai. So like in theory that would probably be linked to the type of prophecy that we get in House of the Dragon. But Fire and Blood, as you know from me, is written like a history book. So there aren't scenes where characters are having dialogue. Like there's no scene in which like Viserys is talking to Rhaenyra. So like if Viserys ever did privately tell Rhaenyra about a prophecy, no historian, i.e. the person writing Fire and Blood would know it. And so like that's one of the things that was kind of like amazing with Fire and Blood, which was like testament to the writers, because unlike with Game of Thrones, where like a lot of scenes have been written by Jordor and Martin. So all you have to do is basically just like adapt it as written. Whereas Fire and Blood, there are no scenes that are written other than like, oh, there was this famous occasion on which these things happened. And maybe like one line, if it's like iconic for history, where they're like famously the king here said, and this was like talked about for ages, but there's no like, you know, moment to moment scenes. Other writers of House of the Dragon had to say, okay, here's what happens in history. And just like any like historical movie nowadays, you know, and we're like something about the Tudors or something about the Hundred Years War, like anyone that started a screenplay for that is like, well, we know what the war was. We know who the Kagan was. We know there were these council meetings. So like let's like dramatize how we imagine that might have happened. So it's kind of what they had to do with House of the Dragon was like, well, we know this was succession and here were the deaths and here were the big decisions. But like, what do we then make turn it into history? Yeah. Yeah. The writers of House of the Dragon did a fantastic job. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's really good. I'm glad I watched it. It's, I will say, because in general, I haven't really watched HBO shows because I know they're gritty. I guess they like to be so it was intense. It was definitely a little bit of an adjustment. I mean, I knew it was going to be, but even knowing going in, I was like, oh, wow, this is a lot. I think I did my best to warn you that like, okay, but if you do watch it like. No, you, you, you did, but it even, even so, I don't know that I could have been like fully prepared. And it starts off in the first, the very first episode. I think in my opinion, the first episode is arguably the hardest to watch like for like, you know, just like. Yeah. Visually difficult. I mean, because there's story wise, maybe more thing, more horrifying things that happen, but like in terms of like what's visually depicted, the first episode is so harrowing. It's a lot. Yeah. It's like, I struggle with watching it. And I watch a lot of like violent things. Yeah. It was the childbirth scene is. It's a lot. Whoo. You know what, I, and I know we've talked about this before, but I really love the fact that it does spend so much time on things like the horror that can come with childbirth and like having children and stuff. And it does such a realistic job. Okay. This, there was a scene. I mean, it's like awful, but also I was really excited about how like accurate it was. Episode one is scary. Yeah. Because there's the episode where Rainier has just given birth and Allison wants to see the baby. And she walks the, like struggles, like having literally just given birth, walks the baby there. And the thing about it is like, normally you see stuff like that and people are, they're not realistic about post childbirth. But the moment where afterwards she walks away and you see like a trail of blood behind her, I was like, like they, because you do like after you have, I've had two kids, right? Like after you have birth, you bleed a lot for the first. Oh, did you have to walk the baby to your mother-in-law as well? So that she could sneer. Thankfully no. But yeah, it's, I just was really impressed at how they like realistically depicted some of those things that people tend to shy away from and don't talk about. I thought it was really good. Yeah. And the fact that again, they kind of give equal time to childbirth and to like, you know, fighting and jousting and battling and whatever, which I think, well, one, because you so rarely see it. So it's just refreshing to see it. But two, in the way that like it shows them as like, by giving them equal screen time, it gives them equal importance and kind of showcases how like the battle of the bed, you know, and the battle of the field that like, that people are bleeding and dying for these like, goals and for the success of their, their people or their families in different ways, but in no less harrowing ways. And that like the fact that this, this conflict that it's at the heart of House of the Dragon is between two mothers. Cause like Allison and Rainiera, like they're creating a civil war based on like who should, about the succession, but it's like these mothers that are going to these extreme lengths and like it's, it's a lot to like be like, you're going to make the country go to war over this, but like watching how painful it is to like bring about these children, it adds a layer of like, I kind of get why you would feel so strongly about these things. You know? Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely agree. And I think it, it does a good job of unpacking how they get to the relationship that they have by the end. And it's so tragic in a lot of ways because they are friends as children, but you see, I don't know. I, one thing that I think is really, really fascinating about them is that Allison, I think is bitter because she has just gone along with what was expected of her and put up with it regardless of what it is. And the fact that Rainiera is, you know, taking a lover and like getting to explore her sexuality in ways that Allison does it, isn't able to. It's like, I feel like you can see like the seeds of just bitterness over that as a starting point. Which is actually something that they changed from the book. And the book Rainiera and Allison aren't like childhood friends or anything. Like the only relationship they have is that like this young woman marries Rainiera's father and everyone's like, hmm, that's kind of sus. This young woman is like, you know, and Viserys is extremely different in the book, but George R. R. Martin loves the Viserys that we get in the show. He thinks it's an improvement on his own writing. He thinks an improvement on his own Viserys. So like the Viserys in the book, like the same events essentially happen, but it's just like the, how this came to be is just so much more tragic and interesting in the show because in the book, it's more the sense of Viserys is just kind of like, ah, things will work themselves out. I just kind of want to live my life and be king and kind of, can't we all just get along? But he's not like this kind of like tortured person who is kind of trying to make peace and is actively trying to take steps to kind of reconcile these things, but it's just like not good enough at it and not like hard enough about drawing a line because he does kind of want people to get along. But like in the book, he's more just like, ah, I'm not going to deal with it. Whereas like the Viserys in the show is trying to deal with it. Not succeeding at dealing with it. Yeah. Yeah. And I agree with the comment that the dynamic, I think, I mean, I haven't read the book, but I do think that that dynamic is so strong because it makes you care more about their relationship and that's part of what makes it so compelling emotionally is the fact that like they were friends and then to see where their relationship ends up. Yeah. For me personally, well, like this was again, this was something I was like, oh, we're doing this. Like I was totally surprised by it. For me personally in the show, I think that like, because well, the show is so tightly packed with plot, they are like zooming through stuff. Excuse me in each episode. I feel like the show would have benefited from having one or two extra episodes to like to have less of a completely breakneck pace because I feel like we did rush through the transition of Reynira and Allison going from friends to enemies, like much too quickly. And the fact could be to establish them as friends. I was like, oh, that's a new thing. How are you going to deal with that? Because I know where they end up. And unless they're not going to end up that way, in which case, I don't know how you're going to do the show at all because it's kind of like the crux of this whole, you know, dance of the dragon's war that we're doing. So I was like, okay, they can't stay friends. So what are you going to do? So I just felt like the, if there had been another episode or two to like carry us through, or if it had been more that when the, we could do the time skip between like the young actors and the older actors. And if that had been more implied that we're going to start to go down a path of animosity when they're young. And then we skip ahead and it's full animosity. It's implied then maybe that off-screen, but it just, it felt so fast. And it felt so like, well, we need to get them into position because they have to be enemies. And I'm like, yeah, but like, not so fast. Yeah, I can see that. I do think it's, it's quick and it would have been nice to see a little bit more of it, but I do think they still did a pretty good job of like giving you moments that offer insight into how and why some of it happened. So. So I don't know if Ray, if you've read the book. And so I don't know who you mean by bitter old lady because Allison is not old, like in the book. She's a little bit older than Rayneara, but she's still really young to be marrying the king. And so like, there's just no foundation of friendship, but actually it's a point of bitterness for Rayneara that Allison remains quite young looking and quite live and thin, whereas Rayneara like never loses the baby weight and is like not nearly as pretty as she was when she was like a young princess. So like in addition to their general like, you know, the succession being annoying, it's like commented on in Fire and Blood that Rayneara kind of also resents that Allison's like remains so like hot and sexy and Rayneara is like definitely not hot anymore. So yeah, when people were saying, I'm glad they didn't like make that a thing. Well, but people were saying that Emma Darcy is not hot enough to play Rayneara. And I was like, Emma Darcy is way hotter than Rayneara is actually supposed to be. So actually. Yeah. I'm glad they didn't make that a major plot point because we don't like really that's not the thing we need. I feel like that would have made it feel like so much more petty. Yeah. Well, but again, like they were never friends. So like this is just like that mom that married my dad and super hot and stayed super hot after having kids. That makes more sense. Whereas with this, it would have been. Yeah. Here if she was bitter over Allison being hot, then because they were friends, like it would be worse. But I think presenting your hot step mom is fine. Fair. Especially if you're pretty sure your hot step mom like seduced her way into marrying the king, your dad. Like screw you. I do. I do think they do a good job of making you care about both of them and empathize with both of them to a certain extent, but also both of them do terrible things. Yeah. I think the show definitely well with both of them by having this friendship thing made both of them more likeable characters soften them both and made Allison more sympathetic because Allison. I mean, it is again written like a history books. You're like, oh, this young woman kind of like gets friendly with the king and ends up marrying him. And Rainier is bitter about it. And obviously the kingdom is like, hey, what? And then we get a civil war. She's like, no, my son is going to inherit. It's like she's like a pretty. And the implication is because Viserys is kind of a pushover that he just kind of lets Allison have her way. And she refuses to be friendly with Rainier. Refuses to let their kids like and the implication is also that like we didn't really get this so much in the show, which isn't necessarily a problem. But because there's so much animosity between Allison and Rainier that Viserys refuses to deal with, the sense is that the kids are just kind of like picking up on their parents' vibe. And so then they fight with each other because their parents hate each other so much. So like here in the show, it seemed a little bit like the kids just kind of naturally hated each other already, less that they were picking up on the super toxic fighting between their parents. But it's still like cycles of animosity that are kind of like perpetuating and getting worse. Yeah, I agree. Were the time skips, they were, I felt like they were decently disorienting. And I have read the book, how disorienting were they for? I didn't know that there was a time skip at some point. I had heard people talking. Well, I knew there was a big one where the actors change. So I mean, like the other actors also kind of like keep, like there's like four actresses that play what's her name? The Valyrian girl. Oh. Laina. Laina. There's like little girl Laina, teenage Laina, adult Laina. Yeah. Well, but I mean the main, but I mean like the main, like Alison and Rainiera. Like I knew that there was like a point at which those actresses change. And then their kids also show up as children and then get aged up. So this is constantly like new actors. There is a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was fine. I mean, I kind of knew to expect a time jump. The only, the thing is, oh, and we should talk about this because I think I told you this right after I watched it. Now I'm remembering and you told me something. So I thought right before that time jump, I thought Viserys was going to die. I thought they were trying to like make it seem like he was dying, like that, like when he collapses at the end of the like wedding feast episode or whatever, that, that he was, he was dead. So I was surprised that we had a time skip and he's old, but still alive, which like, because it gave you the vibe that that's what was supposed to happen. So I think when we talked about it, you said you knew he, you never thought that because you knew he had to keep living for longer, which is interesting because I didn't know that. I just was like, Oh, well, I guess he's dead. Wait, he's not. What? I think if memory serves Viserys, as I already said, he's quite different in the book. He's just like generally got gout and he's like kind of like, he's kind of like a party hearty guy. He likes to drink. He has gout. He likes to eat well. He just kind of likes to live well and doesn't really want to deal with like the problems. And he's like, get along, get along. I mean, he might have like diabetes or something because he keeps losing like fingers and stuff. And like, I was going to, like his like decrepit, sickly falling apartness is not a thing in the books or in the book because in the book I'm saying like he has gout. So he is like kind of sickly in terms of like, he doesn't take a care of himself and like he eats a lot. He drinks a lot. He has gout. And so then like he does, you know, when he's dying, it's not like super surprising, but he's not like this like leper that's like completely like falling apart. Like that's so, yeah. I was like, okay, he's like a lot sicklier, but I was like, well, but he's got to keep kicking. And then like every episode you're like, oh my God, how are you still not dead? It was cold. It was really wild. Yeah. Yeah, no, but like watching it, not having any context. I just assumed he was dying at that point. Older Liana being introduced and being so cool and then being killed off. I think she's killed off in the next episode. I don't think it's the same episode because like they show Damon and her like in in the South in the name is not coming to me. But anyway, they're like, it shows them like pretty happily married. And then I think it's in the next episode that she dies. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. There was also just so many actresses playing that character. That's true. Oh yeah. He was dying at every point. It's true. His mask super reminded me of Kingdom of Heaven, which I love. Yes. Okay. You probably don't because like while the show was airing, obviously like all of us were like, there was constantly like news about the next episode and behind the scenes and stuff. So in the episode where Liana dies, we never really get to see Damon grieving with the kids. And there was a scene filmed that we've seen screenshots of where Damon is like hugging their daughters, like grieving and they cut the scene. And so yeah, I'm pretty mad. He seems that's interesting because he seems he comes across as like very cold. In the show in general. Yeah. And again, they made him slightly less cold. Yeah. It would have been nice to see that scene, but I guess I don't, I don't know why they cut it. It might have literally been for time and they're like, well, this is not moving the plot forward. We do not have time for this. We don't have time for anything. Matt Smith did an incredible job. I was. Yeah. I was so sorry. I doubted him. Yeah. I wasn't expecting it. I, and also he's got such like an unusual look to him that like when I, you know, the show was airing and people were like going on about him and I was like, really? And then I watched the show and I was like, I see it. I get it. It's the vibe. He's got charisma. I understand. I mean, when I heard first heard that he was cast, you know, just when it was like announced, like the casting decision, I was like, cause he's again, like Damon is kind of like a, like violent thicker, a build, you know, like kind of like alpha male type. And I was like, I really like Matt Smith as an actor. And he can certainly be like confident and he can be charismatic and he can be what all these things. But I was like, I don't think of him as like, you know, big alpha man. And so I was like, I don't know about that. And then I saw trailers, you know, when this show was released, you know, the teasers or whatever. And I actually saw him in Damon gear. And so I was like, okay, well, he certainly looks more the part than I would have expected. And then I saw him playing the role. And I was like, okay, I'm so sorry guys. Perfect. Damon. Yeah. It's, I, that's the thing is like, he was like such a horrible person, but also like, not the worst person somehow. Not the worst person somehow. And also just like so engaging. I'm like, I like you more than I should. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's kind of like how people like Moriarty, even though he's evil and they like Loki, even though he's evil. He's definitely worse than Loki, but like, yeah, it's the same vibe though. It's the same reason. I think you like Loki is Matt Smith. The one reason you think you might want to watch it. It's not a bad reason. I mean, the entire cast though, like it cast was amazing. They, they, yeah, the performances were really incredible. And I also think that the, the switch for the actresses who played Rainiera and Allison were good. Like I liked younger and older. And I think it felt pretty believable to me. The transition. And even though I think, well, I personally feel this way, maybe you don't, but I feel like the show kind of more so steers you towards rooting for Rainiera and the Targaryens. Or like the true Targaryens. Yeah. But I think it does a decently equal job of not making it like clearly Rainiera is in the right and clearly Allison's in the wrong. Like it's, it's very, very messy. So I don't think that they over did it on like, obviously Damon Rainiera, we stan, we love Allison, screw her. Like they made Allison much more sympathetic. They made Rainiera and Damon, I mean, actually they made Rainiera and Damon more sympathetic than they are in the book as well. But still like they did it pretty evenly, I think. They did. Although I will say no way in hell do I think Aegon would ever make a good king. So I'm like really him and really you're covering up him assaulting a servant girl. Oh, this is good. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely, I mean, I don't know how much you remember of, again, Game of Thrones, but it's like the prototype of Cersei and Joffrey where like Cersei like must know that Joffrey is a monster, but it's like, nope, my baby boy shall be king. And you're like, okay. So like, so the addition of this prophecy, right? It adds a layer because like in the book without the prophecy, it's literally Allison being like, I don't care. My son is going to be king as opposed to this like more like introspective like thing where she has reason to believe that maybe Viserys somehow really did want this. And like, if you're being honest, like he had the chance to like name him heir and you know what a piece of shit your son is. And like, do you really think Viserys wanted that unlikely, but like he does murmur this thing for Allison to hear and in a state of like grief and vulnerability and like bias for her to be like, this is what he wanted. Like, I'm sure this is what he wanted. Whereas again, in the book, it's just like, Viserys is going to be king. Well, with this, it's like, I'm like, I feel like deep down you know that that's not true, but you're lying to yourself because you want it to be true, you know? Yeah. Although I will say I like. If every man in Westeros wasn't named Aegon, you know, who I do like though, is even though he's another person who I don't think I should, but I kind of like the, what's his name, the brother with the, who loses the eye. Amond. Amond. Like I could see him being a good king. Better than, I mean, well, there's that great scene. Certainly better than Aegon. As far as I remember is not in the book. Cause again, there aren't really scenes in the book where Aegon is like, let me go, I'll leave. And you can be king. And he's like, I'm not, not into that idea. I know. I also was like, not a terrible idea. Which also that actor's performance in the last episode when he and Luceris get into it on their dragons and then he loses control of his dragon and the dragon kills Luceris. Like the look on his face of like, like he meant to scare him. He meant to hurt him. He knows that he has started the civil war right now. Like the face he makes is just like perfect. Man. Yeah. No, he did an excellent job. So you won't know that there were genuinely people theorizing was the show was airing that. Amond is actually Damon's son that Allison to Damon had an affair and that that's his son. And I was like, are you for serious Allison? Damon. No way. Never. No. There's no way in hell. Allison who's like got so much pent up like sexual frustration that she takes it out on her. Like what her stepped out her. Oh my God. And they were like, we'll be like, you're just a ruler. And I'm like, yes, there's like paralleling going on. But that's not his son. No, it's not his son. Like Damon. I mean, if there was going to be anything, I feel like there is a lot of like unresolved tension between Allison and Sir Chris Christian. Oh my God. Yeah. She obviously is super into him. Obviously super into him. Well, cause she had a crush on him when she was a kid. They really could have given that actor some gray hairs because like he looks exactly the same throughout this entire show. Well, everyone else keeps getting new actors. And you're like, are you a vampire? Maybe he is. Maybe that's what's going on. Yeah. No, but he was the guy that she had a crush on as a kid before she started getting pushed up the series. Like clearly there's some like pent up stuff. And I think jealousy also because he was the person that even though it was like one. I also thought it was interesting how they handled that because again, it's written like a history book. So in terms of who is allied with who and why that is. In the book, we know that Sir Kristen was like Rainier is guard and that eventually his loyalties go over to Allison. And so in the book, it's like, there's like several different theories as to why this occurred. So like that's how the historian presents it. It's like some people say this thing happened and that's what caused this. Other people say this thing happened and that's what caused this. And yet other people say this thing happened and that's what caused it. And the show kind of like took a little bit of each of those things and put all of them in. That's interesting. Because like in a history book, you can say that, but in a show you have to pick a narrative, you know. Yeah. I think the thing is, is like the scene. Well, it was interesting, right? Because it's like we're following on the steps of this like deeply uncomfortable scene with her uncle seducing her sort of well, seducing her. That was like super yikes. But then she go, but then it's like she goes and is with Sir Kristen. Is it Kristen? Okay. And like, even though it's coming on the heels of that, it also kind of felt like, okay, cool. You're like taking control of your own choices and sexuality and like, I think, but it's messy because of the dynamic. It was, it was, that was such an interesting. What I found really interesting was in the way they shot the scene where she is like sleeping for the first time with Sir Christian Cole is like, they didn't rush the scene. They didn't just cut to them having sex. They show all the times that Sir Kristen could have said no and didn't and almost said no and didn't. And they like, they really go through the entire scene and show her wanting it and him being like, we shouldn't, but then he keeps going and then like take the taking off of the white cloak, which is the symbol of his vow. And he's the one that like puts it down and they zoom in on his like hand, putting it down. And they like, they go through this like long scene to kind of show how both of them mostly him are kind of the point of no return and like choosing to do this thing. Yeah. Which I thought was like very intentional. No, I agree with that. But after the fact, she owns her choices and he doesn't. Well, he's like, well, this means that we're going to be together forever. Run away with me. And she's like, sir, your D wasn't all that good. Listen, it. I'm the literal princess. Are you for serious right now? Like giving me flashbacks to things and like evangelical churches that happened. He is so. People like that. Oh gosh. Yeah. It's like really dude. What did you think was going to happen? Oh man. And he is not over at how 10 years or whatever later. No, not even remotely. But like, I keep wondering if in the next season, him and Allison, her can actually strike up something. But I don't know. And then there's that creepy guy that seems to also be really into Allison. Like, oh my God. Who is the brother of the guy who is the father of Rainier's? Yes. And he like kills his brother. He's so creepy. There's that scene where he's like watching her. Oh my. Ooh. Which again, that's not in the book because the book doesn't have scenes like that. So when that was happening, I was like, I'm like, what's happening right now? Why is this happening right now? I was like, why? Why? So we cut the scene where Damon hugs his daughters and we keep the scene where Laris stares at Allison's feet. Okay. Cool. And it's like, like, you know. Little finger. I think you mean little foot. Oh wait. No, that's a little dinosaur. Can't be little foot. He does a good job playing a total creep, though. But it's again, like, so I feel like there's a lot of coping though with like Damon also being evil and people being like, no, but it's actually fine because we like Damon and it's like, it's not fine because I remember not everyone, of course, but I remember there being a lot of people really upset when I think it's, it's either in the second to last or the last episode where Damon chokes Rainier and people were like, oh, that's a bridge too far. And I'm like, you know, he murdered his first wife, right? Like, how is this not a thing Damon would do? I don't understand how people are like, Damon, not my Damon. Yes. Damon would have absolutely choked Rainier. Yeah. I mean, it is like, it is a disturbing scene, but it's a disturbing scene for sure. But I don't know. But I don't know how it's out of character. It's not. That's what I'm, so like, this is kind of the thing that I have with fandoms in general because like, I think the Darkling in the Grisha books is really well written and interesting to read about. I do not ship the main character with the Darkling because he is the villain and he is evil. So like, I don't, I don't understand why people can't like a character and also accept the fact that they are not like, redeemable, you know, like you don't have to like because you like the character be like, and it's actually fine what they're doing because they don't like the character and find them interesting and not approve of what they are doing. No, I think it's because people don't just like them. They find them attractive. And I also. Right. Right. But I think, like, but I think, I think people probably just have like complicated feelings about that where like, they don't want to admit that they're like attracted to somebody evil, maybe like, or that like, well, maybe they're not as bad as they are, which is also why there are so many popular romances that are like, you know, he like, he kills people, but not me. I mean, Damon is not a bad boy with a heart of gold. He's not a bad boy. Yeah. And and he does. He's also not somebody who has a morality chain where like the one woman he loves, he'll be good for like, he's not that either. So it's clear he's kind of always like, it's like, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, you know, it's a bit of something for Rainier. But like, that isn't all that romantic. No, like considering the Targaryen tradition of incest, like it's slightly less creepy because it's like, this is on the table. But I mean, so like, it's slightly only slightly less creepy when it's like what's established in our family that we do marry like uncle, Denise, cousins that's very much a thing that might happen. So like, yeah, I'm into her, I would. Yeah, except that he starts kind of grooming her when she's an adolescent. Oh, absolutely. I just said it's slightly less creepy. Because it's like an actual, like, societally acceptable option instead of like, straight up. Yeah. But I think it's a fantastic show. Yeah, is my, did my mic switch? Yes. Okay, I don't know why I'm just doing it. I don't know if you've heard of it before. I do, I do like the way that it has women who are strong and interesting and very imperfect trying to cope with this very messy world they live in. I just think there's so much nuance to the way that they handle misogyny and like these women at the center of this. Like, I don't know. I just think I think it did a really good job in how it handled things. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different things I think it handled also. Is my mic back to being right? Yes. I mean, like the way that Rayneera and Lenore have a conversation when they're betrothed and she's like, look, I know, and you know, and it's fine, but we just have to make errors for the kingdom. So like, I don't know, you do whatever. I don't care. Yeah. Cause it's just like practical. And this is why like, this is why these are the kinds of books and stories that I am clearly like suited for. Because whenever I read books where there's like a political marriage that is like needs to take place. And it's even discussed that like, you know, like the prince or the king or whatever it's like, look, you just need to marry me to make this alliance. I know your true love is like John Doe over here. And you know what? I won't, I don't even mind if you like want to have an affair with him while we're married. We need to have this marriage for political alliance. And they're like, I could never, I'm going to marry my true love. And I'm always like, that's so stupid. Oh my God. Can you just be practical for like two seconds? Like it doesn't even fucking matter. So like, it's always like, like these very like lovey stories where they're like, no, we shouldn't do this marriage that's not for love. We deserve better than that. I was like, but you can have both. You can like secure the kingdom and the finances and the wars and the whatever the reason was that you needed to get married and have your true love. You can have your cake and eat it too. Why would you say no to that? It's so stupid. Well, cause they can't do it publicly and that's hard. I mean, and I think you, well, but I think you see that, right? Like I think you see that with, especially with having kids with somebody that you're not supposed to be like, we see, you see how hard that is. Yeah. Well, in that, I mean, I think the plan was to have Lenore try to give her some kids. Yeah. That did not go well. Yeah. Which is again, in the book, like the Valyrians all look like the Targaryens more or less. So like it's like rumored that Rainier's kids do look a little bit more like the, what's his name? Uh, Harwin? Anyway, like her boyfriend and not like her husband's kids, but it's not this like blatant, he's black and her kids are white. Like, like they, they're just like, they're all white people. And but people are like, we think her kids don't look like him. And so it's more like a, everyone's gossiping about it, but it's not like, obviously. I mean, yeah. In this case, it's like, it's pretty obvious. They don't look like her or her husband. So yeah. Which I think was an interesting choice for like the casting when they were like, like, cause they knew that this would be a part of the story. Is this like illegitimacy. So like to make it so very like visually obvious as opposed to like something rumored and speculated about kind of like with the fire as well. It's another thing in the book that's like speculated, but here is confirmed in the book. It's speculated by people who would have had a reason to kill her. It's Harwin. Isn't it? It sounds wrong. It's strong. There's Larry strong the creep and his brother is Harwin. Isn't it? I don't know. But anyway, so it's speculated like who would have a, something to gain by killing him. And one of the theories even is that Damon and or Rainier would have done it so that they could be together or the, or the Damon would do it so that he could have Rainier. So like it's not confirmed. Harwin. It is Harwin. Harwin. Yeah. So like obviously in the show, they confirmed that it is Larry's that did it, but in the, in the book, it's not confirmed. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think the casting choice for a visual medium makes sense, especially because they're so tight on time is they need a way to make it really obvious that this is a concern. Oh, the illegitimacy. The illegitimacy. Yeah. It's like they don't even like you, you kind of figure it out pretty quickly. Like, oh, oh. Well, I guess it also, it depends on how you want the, the kind of like the tone of the conflict to seem. Do you want it seem like this is obviously a conflict for obvious reasons that it may or may not be legitimate reasons or it's just like everybody finding excuses to Rubamonger and it's not even legit because it kind of comes off that way in the book where they're like, everyone's gossiping about everybody. And is this true? We're not sure, but they certainly use it as a pretext. So like, do you want it to be a bunch of people politicking and just like coming up with things that aren't verifiable, but are like using it as a pretext? Or do you want it to be like blatantly obvious that these are like quote unquote legitimate grievances? Yeah. Well, I think the fact that it was more obvious is also helps for the fact that they used it as a conflict item between the kids as well. The series sticking to his grandchildren being legit, even though their Caucasian pretext made for custody. That's true. Yeah. And of course the iconic, he can keep his tongue seen where I, that bothered me because I was like, okay, even though Damon is a prince, you don't just get to like kill people. Like that was a murder, which was also my big problem with like, um, Kristen Cole murdering what's his name in the wedding, which is not a thing. I was like, you wouldn't just get to be like, oh Pat, you know, like get to be a king's guard after that. Like you're a danger. Like you just, you just killed like the prince consort's boyfriend. And he's like a noble, you don't just get to do that. But we get such a big time skip right there that you, who knows how they resolved that. I don't understand why he wasn't like arrested on site. Like I was like, that's, so this is TV drama. I was like, that's ridiculous. Yeah, that's fair. It was a lot. Yeah. He's the rogue prince. I was like, I can buy, I was like, if Sir Kristen can just murder people, well then I guess I accept that Damon can, but I don't really accept that even there then can. That's not how this works, especially because like the king had just pronounced sentence. He said he will have his tongue for that. That is the determination of the king. And Damon is like, nah, I'm up ahead him. It's like, that's, you know, treason. The king just said what he wanted. That's not what he said he wanted. And it wasn't a mistake. Whoopsie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He does see him unhinged. Yeah. Yeah. When he's training the kids too, when Kristen Cole is training Rainier as kids, I was like, how are you letting this happen right now? I did not understand. Yeah. That was a lot. Yeah. Cause you wouldn't think that that would be allowed. Well, not just not allowed. I mean, you'd think Rainier would be like, I'm not allowing this. Oh yeah. That too. For sure. Yeah. There were definitely a few things that were like that. And there were also. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there were other things too where scenes felt like they were a little over the top in to a point that Rainier was moving up out of the floor on her dragon. That was great though. It was, again, a bit much. It was, but it was fun. I liked her. Yeah. Well, I think the reason this scene also bothers me a ton, not just because I find it unrealistic that this is being permitted to occur, but I also, it's this like, okay, it's one thing Kristen to despise Rainier. But these kids are, these are innocent kids. You know, it's like that's, that really makes you a monster. Yeah. But I mean, there are people like that who, you know, because they're, you know, they're angry at the kids because of who their parents are. It's not unheard of. It just is much, much, much, much worse. I think that's what makes people go, Damon would never do that. Sean makes a good point. I completely disagree. Because as I said, the King had said, I will have his tongue for that. And he did not say anything else was to be done. It's up to the King to decide. And the King has not said he is to be killed. The Valyrians are cousins to the royal family. They are also like, like borderline royalty. You don't just get to behead them because they upset you. That's not a thing that you can do. Yeah. Thinking Leonor's death, I think was done to make Rainier and Damon more likeable instead of just killing Leonor. I was pleasantly surprised by it. I was just very confused. But then I kept thinking, is he going to show up in another season? That would throw a wrench in the works. No, because he's definitely dead in the books. The fact that he's alive at all is just kind of a kindness. Yeah. It's so cold to like, oh man. For me, I was like, okay, so this is the change you decided to make that instead of killing him, they're like, we're going to get him to leave and fake his death. I was like, I need to know what the conversation was when you convinced him to go with this plan. I'm not picturing it for you being like, hey, would you like to go off and live in exile? Never see your family again? Never see your dragon again? Never live in wealth and luxury again? Just go live a hermit's life with your boyfriend? Yes. So that we can get married? Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. So you see Lainor being like, sounds good. I don't know. Now that my parents have just lost my sister, now they're going to believe me to be brutally killed as well. Yep. Great plan. I don't know. Maybe they took some like money with them so they have a good life. I could see him being willing to run off. I don't know. I'm just saying like, I need to see the scene where we learn why Lainor was willing to go with this. Because he was so miserable. I mean, it's one thing to be miserable while living in the lap of luxury with your family and your dragon and your status and your wealth and the reality of saying goodbye to all of that forever and also traumatizing your parents. Like it's a big ask. It's also a huge liability if he changes his mind, which is why I don't think Damon would be down with it. He'd be like, sure, Rainier, he can run away, wink, and then he kills him. Like that's so much more realistic to me that Rainier would think he's leaving and Damon's like, toast. That I think is fair. But I do, I could see him agreeing to it, honestly. Besides they probably threatened him. I mean, well, what could they threaten? That they'd kill him if he didn't leave. Like here are your options. I mean, he's not without resources. His father is in charge of the entire fleet. He can just be like, yo dad. They're going to be super fucked if they don't have the Valyrians on their side. I guess, I don't know. He just seemed really unhappy and he does seem a little selfish. Again, it's for that reason that I don't think he'd be willing to give up everything that he has to go live with the life of a nobody. Basically do what Rainier was not willing to do to run off with Kristen Cole. Yeah. It just, it seemed like a little bit, again, more like for TV where I was like, I'm thinking through the reality. Because again, he'll never see his dragon again. Like, that's a big thing. Yeah. Which also people have pointed out, because the dragons do have kind of connections with their riders that like his dragon would go and find him and out him as being alive. That, that could be true. I think the more believable thing to me though is that Damon would go after him and kill him anyway, or have somebody do it. Or yeah, just kill him straight up when he tells Rainier, no, it's a cleverly orchestrated fake death, but it's just literally his bed body is like, I found a corpse that looks so much like him. Don't worry, my darling. Yeah. I don't think he wants any like loose strings. And we know that Damon doesn't really care about killing people. No, he does not. So, yeah. That I found unbelievable. But I did like Lenore and I liked the casting. You too. Yeah. And the dragons, we haven't talked about the dragons. The dragons were very cool. And they were never on screen just for cool factor. Like they were always plot significant. It was never like, oh, this scene is here just because look what we can do. Here's the cool. I mean, I wouldn't even be mad about it if they did that because they aren't really cool. But like they're always narratively significant what they mean to the people, to the politics, to the story. They also feel dangerous in a way that I think dragons in shows often don't like. Well, not just dangerous, but they feel really real and grounded. Like the reality of like this cumbersome beast and how the harness would actually have to work to climb up on them and like how like Viserys has this line about like people think that the Targaryens control dragons, but that's like a lie. Like you can't control dragons. They just feel very much like as much as like you can realistically portray something that doesn't exist. Like they feel so grounded in reality, like this massive, massive thing that's like when they land, it feels heavy. And when they like take off, like it's not like immediate and quick, like it feels huge. Yeah. No, I think it's really impressive the way that they did it. And it feels like I feel nervous for these kids climbing up on these dragons to fly. I mean, also all just like look at all these comments about the dragons. The names of the dragons are a really awesome names because they're all like Valyrian names. Also that I love that they had a lot of scenes where they were speaking in old Valyrian. Like Rhaenyra would talk to Daemon in Valyrian a lot. I thought that was very cool. It added a certain Genesequa. Yeah. It felt, it all, it felt very, a lot of things just felt very realistic. Well, I mean, that's why people liked Game of Thrones to begin with because it was like Lord of the Rings. But what if it was like realistic? Like people are kind of the worst and selfish and politicking and like backstabbing and the heroes always win. And they're like, oh wow. Yeah. That's not what I want from Lord of the Rings though. So I'm glad. No, but like when fantasy like seemed like it had always been where like, oh, the good guy wins because the good guy, he has the magic sword. And then here comes George R. Martin is like, oh, the good guy dies in the first book. And you're like, I don't know where we go from here. Like what? What is happening? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's like why Joe Abercrombie wrote first law because he kind of thought fantasy had to be Lord of the Rings. And then he read A Song of Mice and Fire and was like, you're telling me that it doesn't have to be like that. Well, my dear. Did we make it 55 minutes without a Joe Abercrombie reference? I think I deserve a prize for that or something. You do. It's pretty impressive. The popping out scene. I think they're talking about the dragon coming out of the ground. I wouldn't call that popping. Because there was a few times that like, that was one of the most unrealistic things then because as real as the dragons feel, there are these times when they sneak up on people and you're like, how did you miss this giant dragon? It's true. It would be hard to do that. But I love like the how many times the show like intentionally draws parallels between either characters or events or both. Like the two times that like we, they meet on that bridge outside of Dragonstone and with like Rayneera and standing between Damon and Otto Hightower when she's a young girl and then her again doing the same, you know, post coup when she's like claimed the crown. People are talking about like the rainy scene being a controversial. I look like I am okay with an unrealistic thing for cool factor. Yeah. Well, so my problem with the scene was that like I did agree that that was like a bit slightly weaker writing and it felt more like just like a TV moment for the sake of spectacle. So I agree that it wasn't like great writing, but when people reacted to it really, really strongly and we're saying that like she would have started a revolt because she killed all these peasants. Like she's evil for killing peasants by coming through the floor and that why didn't she immediately kill? It doesn't make any sense that she wouldn't immediately kill Aegon with the dragon's fire and why would she just leave without killing them? And I was like, okay, all of that is actually good writing because one, what we're shown all the time is that these royals don't care about the little people and they don't care that they're about to plunge them into tons of death over their squabbles and their wars. The little people suffer for all of this because they do not care. They are not people to them. And two, yeah, killing all. They're like, why would she spare Aegon and kill all those peasants? Because again, peasants are not people. Killing Aegon, who is the prospective heir to the throne, that's a Civil War starting act. And Rhaenys is like, this is not my fight. I'm just out of here. So like, She's like, I'm not, I'm not about to be the one that starts this. She's like, I will go tell Rhaenys what you just did and she can decide. But yeah, I'm not going to start the Civil War for her. Right. Which I think is fair. Oh yeah. And then that's what people also said, is that like when she came up through the floor that she should have died from like the, the stones falling as well, which like, I mean, maybe, but. Maybe it depends. I feel like the dragons are pretty good at protecting their riders. I don't know. I also just am not, not bothered by doing something for spectacle from time to time. That's fine. Yeah. This too. So like her killing Aegon would have been Regicide and kin slaying and starting a Civil War. Like that's a big deal. That's a big deal. That's why she was not going to do that. And then Damon gets mad at her. That's exactly what she says in the next episode. She's like, I was going to do that. Hashtag not my problem. I was supposed to be queen and was it. If you want to be queen, you fight about it. Man, she's great. I really like her. And I think her relationship with Corlys is so interesting and I love the way they handle their dynamic as people who've been together for a long time. I think given the situation, I think they did a good job of showing us how it wasn't completely unbelievable that Reynira would get Corlys and Rhaenys on their side, even though Corlys and Rhaenys think that Rhaenira may be possibly killed Vaynoir. They still side with Rhaenira in this conflict against Allison. You know, like where she like looks at Rhaenira and is like, I do think she should be queen and I do think that we should fight for that. I think they did a good job of not having her on Rhaenira's side immediately, but there's a lot of animosity. She doesn't really trust her because of the whole like Vaynoir elephant in the room, but she does come around to it where like, you know, the whole enemy of my enemy. Yeah. And again, like the very practical concerns of like, just because you like a person or love a person doesn't mean that like politically speaking, they should be in charge. So if she's like, who should be in charge, who should be in charge of the realm? Aegon or Rhaenira? Oh, Rhaenira might have killed my son, but it should be Rhaenira. But it should be Rhaenira. Aegon is a mess. Although he was into having that crowd chanting for him. Yeah. Yeah, the way that, because also, because we have that him telling his brother, you know, you be king, you be king. I don't want to be king. I'm not into this. And he doesn't even think as anyone believes in him. He doesn't think his mother loves him. Like he has so much doubt going into it. Yeah. Which I think was really well done. The actor did a really good job of being like, no, like I just like want to drink and fuck and not be king and I shouldn't be king. And then as soon as he gets up there and sees people chanting for him, he's like, hell yeah. Like yeah, I'm your king. Okay. I like this. Power corrupts absolutely. That's one of the great lines to not absolute power. That's not from this. But the, when they're trying to convince Viserys that like Damon might try to kill him to get the throne if he remains his heir. That's why he needs to name a different heir when his wife and child die. And Viserys is like, you know, Damon is my heir. And they're like, Damon can't be your heir. Come on now. And they're like, are you suggesting that my brother would like kill me for the throne? Like he has no ambition for the throne. And that like, what is the word that he uses? It's like, he says that like Damon doesn't have the patience for rule or something. And Otto Hightower is like, like the gods have yet to make a man that wasn't patient enough for absolute power. It's like, please. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really didn't like that. Yeah, that too. Alison also doesn't say that she loves her son. She's just like, you idiot. But she doesn't actually say I love you. You're like, ooh, that's telling. Yeah. I mean, he is something. He's not as bad as Joffrey though. Did you know that the young version of Aegon, the one that's jerking off outside of a window, that that's David Tennant's son, Factor? Really? Ty Tennant. Oh, wow. That was so... Yeah. I had a lot of negative feelings about Otto pushing his daughter into this whole situation. That's hardly the only questionable thing he did. Well, that's true. Which like, again, this is kind of where like, not you can't really root for Otto or Damon, but like you can... Damon is out here actually killing people. Otto's not doing that. So you're like, maybe I should root for Otto, but it's kind of like with first law where people always hate Giselle the most, even though he's actually not hurt anybody. He's just a twat. Damon and Otto. Damon's out here like mutilating and killing people, but when Damon is like calling Otto a weasel and a cunt, you're like, yeah, he is, even though Otto hasn't hurt anybody. He's just kind of like, oh, our family could get more power if we blah, blah, blah. And you're like, even though he's actually kind of harmless compared to Damon. Yeah, I guess comparatively, except like manipulating his teenage daughter into... But again, is that worse than Damon? Murdered his wife and groomed his niece. True. True. I mean, political marriages and marriages for power is like a normal thing for like high families to do. So for Otto being like, hey, aim high. Go for the king. Go for the king. Go for the big one. It's like, you know, reasonable. Yeah. I mean, if not, Alison T was going to marry like a 10 year old girl for politics. True story. No good, no good options. Oh yeah. We're Viserys, a low-key accused Otto of murdering Balon. Yeah. It was kind of, anytime Otto kind of got, you know, it handed to him. Yes. Asking her to put on her mother's dress, ick. Yes, it was an ick. It was a big ick. Especially because we had just learned that mother is dead and then he's grieving her and like... It was so... Yeah. Yes, father. Which like at the same time, like when it comes to like who she's being sent to, Viserys is also like really kind and like is really sincere about like liking Alison. And so it's like, you can't really like hate him, but like, he's old. She doesn't want to marry him, but he's like, he's very kind and loving. Well, except then there's also that scene where like, he, like they have sex and... But again, even that, like it's expected that like she's putting out for him. And I don't think there's ever a scene where she's enjoying it. And the idea is like, well, he's this like old king and he has the whole thing though. The reason he needs a second marriage is to have heirs. So that's what she is there for. Yeah. It's just hard to watch. He wants to talk to her about his trains. Exactly. That's true. I loved all the memes that were every time the council is talking about like how the crown is in debt and they don't have money. And they're like, where did all the money go? And it just like shows his growing miniature city. That's where the whole budget went. But yeah, I think I love that George R. R. Martin was like, you know, what's Patty Considine is like, because also it wasn't just the writers of the show. Patty Considine himself was like, this is how the view, the direction I see for this character. Like he's the one that kind of like determined this kind of like tragic figure that Viserys would be. So I just love that George R. R. Martin like called that out and gave him credit and wasn't just like privately pleased about it, but was like, yeah, I told him like, you're, this is brilliant. You're better than my original Viserys. You're kind of like Shakespearean. Like this is like King Lear almost, you know, like, this is, this is great. This is, but you outdid me. So I'm just so pleased that he got kind of credit for that. So any, since you haven't read the book, do you have any predictions for where the story will go other than Lane are coming back because he will not. Okay. I thank you for clearing that up for me. I don't know. I'm really, I'm curious what's going to happen because it definitely ends. I'm like, okay, there's going to be a civil war. Here we go. So I mean, I, I don't know what's going to happen. I kind of think that maybe this also, like what if Lane or is smart, he won't come back. It's about to be a shit show. Yeah. Okay. I kind of think that Aegon will end up dying somehow, maybe from his own stupidity, dying and then his brother, what's Aemond or something? It's dates, but we move the D to the end. Oh my God. Okay. That's why it's Aemond. Okay. Definitely a son. Obviously. Can't you tell? No. And that like, Aemond will end up becoming the competing person at some point. And then it'll make it more like unclear who really should be the ruler, but there will be this battle going on with like Ramira. And then Fair enough. Lots of death. Yeah. Lots of dragons. Lots of dragons. Lots of. Well, this period of history known as the dance of the dragons. Oh, people are going to get married off. Maybe there'll be some like canoodling with people that are not their betrothed spouses, but that might be their siblings. You know, just so people like pointing out how when Game of Thrones first came out, everyone was like so like shocked by the incest of Jamie and Cersei and now in House of the Dragon, people are like attracts. But it's also, I feel like the difference is like somebody who's familiar with the world and the story is like well aware that the Targaryens are famous for like being really incestuous. Like it's a thing that the Targaryens are known to have done constantly and it's like partially canonically the reason that probably the Mad King was the Mad King because like you can't keep doing this forever and not it has like some. Yeah, but like Aegon, I think is betrothed to his sister, right? Yeah, but we also saw that Aben done his sister a lot more into each other than Aegon. You know, I feel bad for her like she's but yeah, he's married to her. They already have kids, I think. Really? Don't they? Maybe they don't have kids, but I'm pretty sure they're married. Oh, I thought they were just like betrothed. Because like Allison does mad that he's cheating on his wife, aka his sister. Oh, yeah, okay. Oh wow. I didn't realize. And we know, and then that's when people were speculating that maybe their kids are actually Amon's kids because we know that Amon has a thing for her and Aegon couldn't care less, which I don't think again is like, isn't either here nor there. But people like to. Everyone's, well, the problem is that throughout Asanga Waisenfire, everyone's constant fan theories about everything is that everyone's a secret Targaryen. So in a show where everyone being Targaryens, now the Targaryens have to be secret other things. But yeah, so like anyone who's not like anyone who's familiar with the world and the lore is like Targaryens be, be fucking each other. Like this is the thing we know no one is surprised, but if anyone's like you is coming into House of the Dragon, it's not familiar with the Targaryens, they're going to be like, I'm sorry, why is a liar, why is there so much incest in this show? Like, what is that about? It is a lot. I mean, I knew enough to know. I mean, that was one of the things that creeped me out about read the books. I did read was Cersei and Jaime. I was like, what? But I think maybe that goes, it's kind of the thing with Daemon and Rainier, right? Where it's like, well, we accept that incest is a thing they've like established that this is the thing that they do. So you're like, well, it's, he's older than her, which is what makes it creepy, but it's accepted that incest happens. Whereas Jaime and Cersei, it is not accepted that they would be doing this. So like they are going outside of like the cultural, you know, mores and taboos. So much incest and not. Yeah. The only time it's addressed is when Allison says something about how you Targaryens have strange customs. And then like, yeah, you know, it's like, yeah, it is the case though that like, historically a lot of royalty did marry cousins, which is, I mean, it's in fact, cause fire and blood isn't just this port, like the portion of the fire and blood that House of the Dragon is about is like a substantial, but relative or like, it's only a fraction of the story. Fire and blood begins with the conquering, i.e. when Targaryens showed up in Westeros, conquered Westeros and became rulers of Westeros. And when they showed up, the faith of Westeros was like, what's with this, this incest thing? This is not a thing that we approve of. And so then the church had to like, make a compromise as history often has, because royalty is special. So then the church maintains that incest is not acceptable, except for the Targaryens, because there they're like the ruling family and they have, it's like the special exemption of the Targaryen, which is just like, but that's why I love fire and blood, because it reads like real history because like, there's constantly stuff like that in history where these like weird concessions and agreements have to be made and like, weird alliances are made. So like the idea that the church would be like, no, you can't do that because that's against our faith, but we know you're going to keep doing it. And we need to be on your good side. So we're going to say you and you alone can do it. And it's totally within the faith for you to do it. Yeah, I don't think it's mentioned that Emma and Viserys are cousins, but she looks like a, she'd be related. So I don't think, yeah, I think people could surmise that cousins are not, they are probably related. Yeah, that scene Allison just made the bad guy for calling out the incest. Yeah, kind of. She's the puritanical weirdo. And then Allison's son marries her daughter. Yeah. Cause we know that Allison does nothing if not a hypocrite. Oh yeah. Little miss like puritanical. And then her son is over here, not just married to his sister, but also like sleeping around and raping people. And she's like, I mean, we're just over this out. Yeah. So yeah. Well, I'm excited for season two. I'm, my understanding is that they finished writing it before the writer strike. So as far as I know, production has not been stopped or slowed by the writer strike for that, at least. So that's something. Although. Yeah. It's hard because like, I know normally writers are still making like small changes and stuff as they're filming. So, which I think they can't do as long. Although in the case of House of the Dragon, it was Patty Considine, the actor himself, who was like, this is how I want the character to be. Just need him back. Back from the dead. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, that's probably the case. Yeah. Yeah. There's no way for the book to confirm or deny because they don't have the kind of medicine that could like say that. But like, yes, Miss Carriage isn't also the fact that there's a, I think they say it in Game of Thrones, not in House of the Dragon. They're like, they say that every time the Targaryens have a child, the gods toss a coin that like, are they going to be crazy or not? And it's cause like, there's so much incest. That's why they're all so mentally ill. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. There is. Well, sometimes there's some people that just have a lot of miscarriages in the book, which can also be like a not incest, not Targaryen thing. It's just like a human thing. But there are weird circumstances and some like straight up, like kind of like horror circumstances where like the babies are kind of dragon-y. Which is, I do agree with this, that it's kind of refreshing to see Rainier portrayed as the good guy when she's more comfortable with her sexuality. I agree with that. That's kind of how I felt. Sleeping with her uncle. Yeah, less that part. They all mess. But yeah, it's a good show. I'm glad you finally saw the light and watched it. I do. And then when the new season comes out, whenever that will be, you can be joining with the rest of the world. Yes. And watching it week to week. I could. Maybe you'll read Fire and Blood before it airs. When is it supposed to come out this fall? No. I think they've only just started filming it. Okay. Okay. I think 2024. Okay. I'm not sure if they've said it. Well, it just depends, I guess, because we're, you know, when we get to it, if we are like tentatively reading the series next year. So I know you like Rings of Power, but listen, they're such different shows. I don't want to compare them because they're like vastly different shows. I like them for different. No, I like them for different reasons. They're different vibes. I would watch them in different headspaces. Which one has better writing? A House of the Dragon has better writing. Yeah. I was shocked by how fun it is to read Fire and Blood because everyone, including me, is like it's written like a history book and you're like, wow, that's going to be boring as hell. It's actually really fun to read. It's very juicy, spicy, and filled with like winks, nods, and intrigue. Well, it's fun. Well, it may happen. All right. I'll take that as a definitely. Well, thank you for finally watching it and thank you for talking about it with me. Yeah, it's just fun. Just know that this has only further encouraged me to shove things your way because I have a good track record of not only getting you to do it, but also getting you to like the thing once you've done it. So carry on. Oh, you know what? I started but have not finished. I started watching Hamels. I mean, I think before we went live or like the first right went after we went live, I did make a Hamilton reference. And as I made the reference, I was like, but then he's not going to understand what I'm talking about. I watched part of it. I watched like, I don't know, 40 minutes of it or something with my kid. And then it started getting a little bit. I was like, okay. It's not four kids, but it's not like horribly racy. No, there were, there were some things that I was like, Oh, I get to explain some things now that I didn't really want to explain right now. Good. And then he was like, can we now watch this? I'm bored. I was like, okay, I'll finish it later. Oh dear. So, but I did start it. I look forward to you finishing it and being like, dang, I really wish I had watched that years ago. I mean, I couldn't have watched it years ago. We've only had Disney plus for like a few months. You could have gotten Disney plus when they put it on Disney plus. It's not like you couldn't do that. It costs money though. We didn't do it until our phone company decided to pay for our Netflix bill. And then I was like, hey, now we can get Disney plus. I just started watching succession now that it's about to end. So I have not seen succession. But as I started watching succession, I was like, so first law, but make it modern. But I am caught up on the ultimatum queer love. Okay. I think it's time to end the stream. I did it like this. Cause how could you not? Well, I look forward to forcing you to do other things. I'm sure you will. Talking about sending you all the house of the dragon memes now that you'll get them. Yes. And then very soon also Hamels and memes when you get them. I first thought it was hilarious that like one of our podcast viewers literally tagged us in a TikTok video making fun of me for not having watched Hamels. Cause it's truly shocked. Okay. Okay. Fine. Is that why it wasn't me? I can't claim credit for this. It was the TikTok that you were like, that was the final straw where I was like, fine, I'll go watch it. I'm telling you it's a culture crime to not have seen it. But to realize that more people than just me are saying it's a culture crime not to have seen it. I wasn't being hyperbolic. I was like, people are now making fun of me for this. So I guess I need to do something about it. Oh, my God. Thank you. Well, House of the Dragon is great. And I look forward to that. Thanks everybody for coming and chatting with us. And yeah, we'll see you some other time soon.