 So welcome to the ward five neighborhood planning assembly. We are what we're going to do a quick run through of our guiding principles. First of all, for anybody that is listening and might not know them like you Sophia. And my name is Andy Simon. I'm on the NPA steering committee for ward five. I'm joined today with by Terry Rivers and Nancy Stetson. We're also on the steering committee Joe. Dear Dairy is on online is also a steering committee member. We are guiding principles are that first of all, and foremost, this is a safe space. We provide a welcoming forum for everybody comes. We try to be as accessible as we can to engage with all community members and minimize any barriers to participation. We are respectful. And if we're never, if there is disrespectful behavior by us or by anyone else, please do not hesitate to bring that. Bring that up and point that out. We value diverse perspectives. We try to be fun. We try to be creative. And we do not endorse political candidates or a political party. So we are nonpartisan organization. This is our steering committee. And we mentioned Sam Heinrichs who's from our CEDA and pay liaison. Doesn't mention Charlie Janone, but he's here behind the camera. And he's here with us. And he's here with us. And these meetings, of course, are taped by Charlie and are available on CCTV.org. A couple of days after the meeting. We have a raise hand function. So if you're online and you want to be recognized, please raise your hand when you're not talking. It'd be great if you. Mute yourself. But when you remember to unmute yourself when you're talking. See you. And, but feel free if you don't want to do that. If you're cooking dinner or something else and. Feel free to keep the video off. And listen and speak. That's the old agenda. But so I don't think we have our agenda up. Maybe Nancy's going to pull it up. I'll start with public forum and we leave 20 minutes for that. We have our two city council. Joan Shannon and Ben Travers here today. And to give us an update on what's going on. On the city council. Since we, we did have. A slot for the water resources department. I know for the Burlington electric department and they. Canceled today. So we have a little bit more elbow room. I'm going to suggest that maybe we want to give our counselors. 20 minutes instead of 15 minutes because there's so much going on, always in city council. We have Evan Litwin and Mariah Sanderson from the Burlington partnership from community. And we have Joe Wiel King who's going to tell us about. We're a project for the bath house and the bowling alley on the barge canal. So we should have a relatively short meeting and. And we'll try to keep it as crisp as we can. So we'll open with a public forum. So who, as anybody. Have something to say for public forum. If you have any questions, any comments or comments that they'd like to share, could be questions that could be announcements. Yeah. My name is Christine McConnell. I know this is not on the agenda today, but I was chit chatting with my neighbor, maybe yesterday or the day before about the innovation project. Happening. I remembered seeing something about it. And I was like, Oh yeah. I don't have time to sort of speak about it. But so again, my name is Christine McConnell. I've been in Burlington since 1990. It was a 94 graduate of UVM. Actually came back to live here in 96. I've been living here as 96 live in the birch cliff neighborhood. I also would like to quickly say thank you for putting the no parking signs at the bottom of perched cliff because. That was really tricky for a while. So thank you for part of that got facilitated. What I wanted to talk about with the innovation district is. I'm super thrilled to see more development and. Economic growth happen in these parts of our city. But I was pretty concerned in talking with my neighbor about the zoning change in particular. With the height of the buildings. What I understood is that it's a roughly. It's a fairly large area. It's not having dug really deep into the many pages of information, but it's about an 89% increase. From what the previous. Spec was, I guess. For zoning. And actually 30% more than what the. 2016. DMUC. Area was, which is like Pearl street, main street. Battery that zone. I think that was only 65 feet. Hi. And what we're proposing. Is 85 feet high down here in this innovation district. And I don't have a view. So it's not personal to me, but it is like. I take walks on the bike path, right? And I wondered. I'm sure there's been extensive studies. Done. And I just wonder if some of the views have been done also from the bike path, looking north and south. And what it might look like. I mean, I take pictures literally every day when I'm on the bike path. And it's so beautiful and it's gorgeous. And I'm imagining what, what will it look like. When we have 80 foot, 85 foot buildings up that way. Again, like very excited to see some positive development happening down here. And I just think that's a pretty massive change that. I mean, you know, I try and stay up on things and it was definitely not on my radar at all. So I don't know where to find the information in that particular concise piece of detail, but it'd be helpful to know more about that and what the status is. That's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. I would remind people that public forum doesn't have to be on a particular topic. You can bring whatever you want. Thank you for sharing that and sharing those questions. Thank you very much. I imagine that it's possible that, that, our counselors might have, might be able at least to direct you to the right place to answer, to ask those questions. We have had several presentations on the innovation. It felt like it's time for them to come back for, for the planning office and CEDA to come back and answer more questions. Yeah, I mean, even the diagrams that were shared. They're all like four stories. And now it's, that would be like twice that height. So what does that look like for this part of the community? And all of that. Thank you. Thank you. Who else would like to participate in public forum? Announcements. Questions. Observations. Oh, online. Yes, Lucia. Hi everybody. Thanks so much, Andy. My name is Lucia Campriolo. I am your neighbor down on the corner of Pine and Lyman. I live here with my family, which includes my husband Joe and my two young daughters, both of whom are at Champlain elementary school. I'm also your ward five school board rep. And so I'm here today to say thank you to those of you who have been dialing into the conversation that's ongoing in the community right now about the bond vote. That you're all making a decision on, on November 8th. I'm really appreciate the community conversation that's happened over the past several months and years and grateful for the participation for many of you on the phone and also to share with you my contact information in the event folks are undecided on their vote or have continued questions about the project. I would love the opportunity to discuss the merits of the project with you before you cast your ballot. So I am going to speak slowly and give you my phone number. And I trust that whomever from the team is taking notes will capture that as well. It is 802-391-0079. And my email address is L. And then my last name, which is on the screen I think for you to jot down quite easily at BSDVT.org like Burlington school district, Vermont.org. And I would really just welcome the opportunity to chat with those of you if you've got questions before you cast your ballot. Also feel free to reach out if you are interested in volunteering to help pass the bond. I'm organizing that as well with some folks on the phone and again really grateful for the support and for the questions. So look forward to hearing from you. Thank you so much. And I will see you at the polls on the 8th. Thank you, Lucia. I see Tiff has her hand up. Hello. I'm, I'm, I am eating dinner with my partner, but I wanted, I wanted to just say that. Gabrielle and I and Barbara Rachel's son, who is the representative upon in the Hill section. And kind of part of UVM have written a letter. That will be endorsed by most all, if not all of the representatives and senators from Burlington representing Burlington in support of the bond issue. And we're going to take out a, an ad on front porch forum so that it appears in, in every front porch forum and there's unified support as best I can tell among members of the delegation to push this, to push our support behind it and to get a state commitment to help to underwrite part of the cost. So anyway, I just wanted to let you know, Lucia, that, that, that, that will be happening and it should go out tomorrow on the front porch forum. Thank you. And Boineppe T. Who else for, I see Carolyn Bates has her hand up online. Carolyn. Hi, I'm going to speak for all of our bees and butterflies and little animals. And ask you, please, please, please do not clean out your garden. Can you all hear me? Yes. Okay. Cause I, I guess I didn't have a picture, which is fine. Please, please leave the leaves in place in your garden because a lot of bees have a home over the winter in those leaves or just barely underground, but they'll need the leaves for winter protection and leave all your plants standing, especially your sunflowers. So the birds can get seeds through the winter and leave your bird feeders up. And that's all. Thank you. Thank you, Carolyn. Are you suggesting that for the garden beds and the lawns? Yes. Don't cut your lawns unless there's at least three inches hot. They should never be lower than three inches. That will allow the roots to grow deeper. All right. Plant clover, which will put on nitrogen fixing bacteria, which will turn the nitrogen and the soil into a nitrogen friendly use for the grass that it's with. And your water and your runoff will be a whole lot less. If you leave the grass long and we want to hold all of our water on our own land. We don't want it running down the street. And if your grass is short, it'll just run right over it like asphalt. And everyone should be doing this. To help keep our lake clean. To help our bees and butterflies and birds. And to help lower climate change. Thank you, Carolyn. You're welcome. Speaking for the bees and butterflies and the lake. Joe, you'd like to join public form. Hey, Andy, sure. Yeah. I was having a conversation with a colleague earlier this week. And they noted that someone they were talking to had said the word. Really four times. So I'm going to give this a shot to try to win the argument. We really, really, really, really. Need a high school. So I'll be my first announcement. I also received a, well, in my own front porch forum, which is the addition. Of the parkway. I'm on Ferguson Avenue, which at the end of our street here is where the blasting is happening right now for the parkway. And there was some, there was it. I guess there was one email about that. Someone that didn't realize that that was happening. And I kind of realized that. It wasn't really the best communicated. Thing as far as reaching. As many people as possible. So let me see if I can. Try to do the share here real quick. I'm going to get this up on the screen. I'm a little bit worried because I only got this computer a short time ago. That it won't let me do it. Yep. Okay. All right. Well, it's an easy web address anyway. It's Champlain Parkway.com. So you go to Champlain Parkway.com. There's a contact page where you can sign up for the weekly updates. Because otherwise I haven't really seen anything from DPW on our website. I haven't seen anything from since April. And they had the couple of signs that are, you know, the lighted signs, but, you know, those only have like a couple of words on them. So unless you can kind of read between all of those three or four words, it'd be hard to tell what they're talking about. But, you know, blasting is going on here at the end of Ferguson on the, the lake side of it. Through the next month or so. I don't know if I'm going to get a picture frame down or something. So hopefully. People take a note of that web address and sign up if you're interested in hearing what's going on with the project. I don't think they told us that Lyman was going to be a moat last week, but, you know, they, they're trying. So. I think that's all I had. Or a public forum here. I have the, I did update the October slides. I think we might have to restart zoom to actually share. So if literally anyone else has access to those that could. Show the agenda, I guess that's probably what we're doing next, unless another hand has gone up. Right Nancy did share that at the beginning because she, she pulled it up from somewhere else, but. Yeah, it was the April one that guy. There's a, there's a real one for October now. Well, I had something to say for a public forum. Yes. Come on up. Hey, everyone. My name is Lena use they them pronouns. I live on Maple street. And I am on the bike path every day. And I noticed that there is a big trailer parked in the wastewater treatment plant from Viola. Viola is a massive water privatization company. They also do wastewater services. They were implicated in the Flint lead crisis. And they are undergoing a big merger. It's been a long time since they've been in the water. They've been working together. They've been working together. The other largest water privatizer in the world. These two corporations are recolonizing water resources in Africa. And they have a history of responsibility, irresponsibility and misuse. Of public resources. I did a quick search. I couldn't figure out what VLI was doing at our wastewater treating plant. And I just wanted to see if anyone had any idea. I think, but Burlington is better off. Without corporations like this. and figured others might be concerned. Thanks. Thank you. Another question for the counselors or perhaps a research project for them. Other public forum announcements, questions. Observations, gripes. Jokes. Right. There's no one else for public forum. I think we'll go right into. Our city counselors. City council update. Thank you for coming, Ben. Thank you for coming, Joan. Thank you, Andy. Do you like to go first? Yes. For once your city counselors have contacted each other in advance of the meeting and decided I would go first. So a couple of things since I have an extra two and a half minutes, I guess. To address some of the things that came up in the public forum. The enterprise zoning changes have not come to the city council yet. They're in the planning commission, which is I think where Christine may have heard about them. And I've also seen them posted on front porch forum. And I think that. I should post that link on from porch forum. So more people know about it before, because it's always hard to know when to weigh in. A lot of people will weigh in when it gets to the council level, but it's already gone through a lot of process. So weighing in at this point, what it's when it's at the planning commission is a good time to weigh in. Secondly. I just want to say that. The DPW blasting. There was a complaint on front porch forum. About the blasting. And I just want to say that DPW has been. Trying really hard to work closely with your city counselors to keep us abreast of what's happening. And we've been talking to them about how to keep. You know, how to keep people informed. And one of the things that. We had done. We learned from the blasting up at the rotary. There were some neighbors there. That said we knew there was going to be blasting, but we had no idea. Like nobody told us to take things off our shelves. And, you know, that we needed to protect things. We just thought it was going to be kind of an annoyance. And so with that feedback, they did go into. They offered to go into people's homes and kind of advise them. On, you know, removing things that might be breakable. Because the blasting is, is. Invasive. In the surrounding area. So I think they did a better job than they did. Up at the rotary. We certainly learn each step of the way. And I will suggest to them that they. You know, I don't know what they use from porch forum more. But I know that they have certainly tried to reach out to the adjacent neighbors. What I was. Oh, and the. Then I don't know if Ben knows. More. I should know what's happening at the water treatment plant. I do know that they are doing some upgrades there. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the time Ben talks. He'll. Either no or have. Had an opportunity to look it up. The. I am the chair of the PAC committee, which is parks, arts and culture committee of the city council. And. We've all been receiving a lot of complaints about activities in our parks. And. Illegal activities. And competing uses in the parks. So we convened a meeting last night. To hear from the public. And I did post this on from porch forum. I know some people felt I did not give them enough notice. So I apologize for that. But we did have quite a few members of the public way in. We did have a lot of input from porch forums that didn't get posted on anybody else's. And I think we need to. Share that across the city better. But we, we did get a lot of input. And I thought it might be good to just let you know what I'm hearing because I think people are also emailing us. And sometimes it feels like. You know, I just wanted to go over what we heard at the meeting, which was both. You know, kind of complaints. But also we asked people to give us their suggestions. So I also put out to this group. If there's anything that you have, you have seen that you don't feel is captured. So if there's anything else that we can do, we would love to hear it. So we heard from, I wanted to hear from city staff, you know, what are they seeing as problems in terms of safety challenges and competing uses in the parks. And what we heard from them is certainly needles are a problem. They're a problem for staff. They've tried to train staff how to pick them up, but that's not always successful. And they're of course unsafe for all the park users, including children, dogs off leash, overcrowded parking, lake health. And in terms of competing uses, they described it as living room versus drop in uses compete with each other. And also noted that, which I did not know five catalytic converters were stolen from cars in a parking lot. And so that was at Letty. From the public, we heard a secondhand smoke, drug use, cannabis smoking, tense pitch illegally, uncivil, unpredictable, antisocial behavior, public drinking, public shooting up, public smoking meth, women being abused, fights, litter, including needles and drug paraphernalia, people under the influence, human feces, drug dealing, people having sex near playground with kids around, smoking meth in children's cave, bike theft, gunfire, bullet in slide, offensive graffiti. These are really serious, obviously. A lot of this stuff is really serious. And, you know, they're related to greater social problems. No question. But what we do about this is, is really challenging. And I appreciated that people came to the, to the table with some ideas. So some of the suggestions that we heard, and again, we might not have time tonight to really dig into this, or if Andy grants us more time, maybe we do. But I love your feedback on some of the ideas that, that were, were shared in this meeting. So, some suggestions were cameras in the problem areas and sensitive areas. Some areas just have problems. Some areas are particularly sensitive to these types of behaviors. And those cameras could either be the type of cameras we use now, which the police can go back to if there's an issue, but nobody's really monitoring them most of the time. Or we can do like webcams, where it's just people get to see what's going in the park, going on in the park at any time you can tune into the live cam station. Bear Park. There was a bullet in a slide at Bear Park and there's some ongoing kind of nefarious activity there. And the suggestion was that removing the bushes would give a better public view. Now I know that removing vegetation is always controversial in the park. So I think that that is something that would be an important community discussion. I believe at one time that park was a private park and it makes sense that it was really kind of enclosed by these bushes because they actually didn't want the public using the park. But it's now a public city park. So maybe we should think about making it read as a, as a public city park. Closing the parks. So I think we should think about that. Citizens patrols. To monitor, pick up litter, that kind of thing. Neighborhood cleanup day. Having more enforcement of rules through park rangers, CSOs and CSLs. And more education through the park rangers. Gates at North Beach and Oak ledge. And I believe Letty has a gate that needs to be repaired. I think that's a lot shorter. But perhaps people will continue thinking about it. I know that. You know, we, we want to be considerate of our neighbors who are. Really experiencing hard times. And that's impacting our parks. We want to be thoughtful and sensitive about how we approach this. But we also want our parks to be a safe place for everybody, including our children. So going on from not. I'm just the bearer of not some very good news today, but. No, and I'm just going to tell you that you have three minutes left and that I think clearly we need to have. An agenda item about parks. With all these issues coming up, we need to have it a future meeting and agenda item that really focuses on the parks. And I would love. For you to bring all of this information to that, to that meeting. That would be wonderful. And I know the parks commission would be. I think that they'd be happy to participate as well. So the other thing is, you know, people, our neighbors have been terribly victimized by tire slashings in one particular neighborhood. I think it was hit three times in a week and one particular couple. Or household. Got hit all three times in one week. And this is, this is a crisis for the people that are being victimized. And this is another thing, Andy. I don't know if the NPA might have some interest in, I think we need to. We'd like to stop these things from happening. That's the first priority, but maybe it's not even the first priority. I really think the first priority is helping the people who have been victimized and trying to get them funds so that they can get to work so that they can get their tires fixed, catalytic converters have been stolen. So I would like to work with anybody who wants to try and figure out, there's a little, there is some funding for these kind of things, but it's not very much through city government. Also city government is not terribly nimble. It administering these things. So what can we do outside of that? I think is a conversation worth having. And I wanted to, most importantly, I have had a lot of questions about the school bond. People stop me on the street and they say, Joan, well, what if we did this and what if we did that? And my answer is always, we have the best, we have like the dream team for a school board. They haven't get investigated more options than I could possibly comprehend. And they've followed through on everybody's suggestions of, I have a better idea. And now we're at the point where this is the best idea that anybody could come up with and reach consensus. Individually, we may all think, oh, I wish they had done this or that, but ultimately they've made, this is the most fiscally responsible school board. I have seen in all my time in Burlington since 1985. And they're responsible to our children. Equally. And we are not going to get a better plan than this. We are certainly not going to get a cheaper plan for building a high school. Look at what South Burlington had suggested for building their high school far more expensive than this. And I wholeheartedly endorse this plan. And I also appreciate the efforts of our school board members to follow every single person who has suggested that something else could be done and try to help them understand why they reached this conclusion. But this is a school board that you really can trust. And I say this as somebody who voted no on that first capital bond that came out last December. I did not vote yes on that bond. I did not encourage the voters in the south end to vote yes on that bond. And it came back to us in a better form. This is the best proposal. This proposal needs to pass. And I hope the voters will recognize that. Thank you. Thank you. Can I just follow up on one question? You said you were talking about weighing in at the Planning Commission. Stage of the South End Innovation District. Can you suggest a way that people who are interested can in fact weigh in. That's a very good question. What I do is I go to the city calendar. And I look for their meetings and I look for their agendas to see when it's on the agenda. You can certainly also weigh in with individual planning commissioners. And you'll find that as well when you get into that website. I wish I had a more efficient way to tell you, but that's what I'm doing. Maybe somebody else here can tell me a better way to. Find that information. It's hard to track everything. Thanks, Jim. The next planning commission meeting is on October 25th, 30th. It will look like this issue. Thank you, Nancy. In your turn, Joe, did you have something that you wanted to say? Nancy, just say the 25th. Yeah. Okay. It was a little bit unaudible. Okay. Thanks. Not on that agenda, she said. Oh, okay. Perfect. That's it. Not perfect. It'll be on a later one, hopefully. So I can't suggest a solution in most of, most of the list of things that you had for the parks earlier. Cause it was a pretty impressive, but. One thing I've seen posted over the years. And more recently, like last week was. It seems like in at least some areas of the park or maybe in some areas of the park, there's a lot of trash bins. And I don't know if they continue to have the. But, you know, considering that. You know, you can't really totally prevent folks from. Camping there for a day or two at a time. Just having some kind of facilities to get rid of waste. And that would kind of help out with the aftermath. Of course. You know, it's not like I would want to be the one collecting the trash that has needles in it. So I don't know how you solve that problem. But. The other, the other products, the other ways to, you know, if we could maybe help with. Yeah. The complaint of feces was actually right next to the. Was in city hall park where there is actually a fully pledged bathroom right in the middle of it. Yeah. I do think we should have a segment in a future meeting that's specifically about parks. And I want to pass it along to Ben. To have a turn. Thanks, Andy. And thanks, Joan. Mindful of your time. I'm going to try to. Sort of breeze through a bunch of issues here relatively quickly, but would be happy to hear from anyone here. Their questions or feedback or obviously after the meeting would love to hear from you as well. First of all, I agree with Joan that to stay up to date with respect to proposed zoning changes in the innovation overlay district as they're calling it. Yes, it is in the planning commission. I think that's a good place to connect. If the planning commission ends up passing out any proposed zoning changes, it will then come to the city council. It will be heard before the city council's ordinance committee. It will come back before the full city council for multiple public hearings there as well. So this is a long process where a number of folks are going to have opportunities to weigh in. So yes, there is the next planning commission, but if for one reason or another, there will be additional opportunities down the line. Before I forget with respect to wastewater, I'm not familiar with the specific company or I don't believe that any proposal or contract has come before the city council to contract with that entity. I certainly appreciate the information in the comments that were made about them and it will be information to keep in mind going forward. I know that the wastewater department has been making improvements to our stormwater system to try to correct overflows when there are storm events. It's actually been very successful. I don't know if you all remember now that long ago, pretty much every time there was a major rainstorm, we would receive notice that there had been an overflow into the lake. We basically didn't receive any of those notices this past year and it's because there's been some major upgrades to our stormwater system. One thing that's happening right now is I know that they are going through a trial period with three different companies that have different technologies to extract phosphorus from our water. Phosphorus is a major contributor to the cyanobacteria blooms in the lake. It's possible. I don't know. There's a speculation on my part that that company is one of the companies that our water division is using to trial a certain technology. Once they're done with this trial period, they are going to come before the council, I believe, to ask for support in them selecting one of these technologies to better be able to extract phosphorus from our wastewater. So I can certainly look into that a bit more, but it's possible that it's connected with this trial period. They're undergoing about phosphorus extraction. A couple other issues on the city council. I sit on the charter change committee, the charter change committee views, a number of proposals that if approved by the committee and then the full council would end up before voters to decide on on town meeting day in March. I came to public comment at the last meeting to let folks know that the charter change committee is reviewing a proposal on all resident voting. This is something we looked at five or six years ago in the city at the time it was voted down. Since then, it's been a long time. It's been a long time. It's been a long time. Winooski and Montpelier have taken action to allow for all residents, regardless of their citizenship status to vote in local elections. So it's possible that this is a matter that will end up on ballots in March for folks to consider. If people are interested in it, there is a website that's been put up. That has multiple translations as well. So if you're interested in it, you can go to the website. And you can go to the website. And you can go to the website. So I would encourage folks to check that out. There is a matter before the charter change committee that would extend rank choice voting. To all elections in the city, including the mayoral election. Voters previously approved extending rank choice voting to city council elections. We actually have a special city council election coming up. We have a special election coming up. And there are three candidates in that race. So we will have our first crack at rank choice voting, at least voters in the East district, which is wards one and eight. We'll have their first crack at rank choice voting in that special election. It's possible that a charter change question will come to voters in March about extending rank choice voting beyond city council elections to the mayoral. And other races within the city. So we'll have our first crack at rank choice voting. The boundaries of our ward districts are outlined in charter. So anytime we have to go through redistricting. It's a question that has to go before voters. For quite some time now, starting with an ad hoc redistricting committee. And now through multiple meetings in the city council, a number of us have been looking at maps. Nancy Stetson there on your steering committee has been absolutely amazing resource with the city. We're looking at a number of ways to get these maps together. We're reaching a point where the city council is going to have to sort of decide on a map that shifts our ward boundaries. To put it before the council, if folks are interested. There is a working session on this issue scheduled for, I believe, 6pm at the city council meeting. On October 24th. There should be some maps posted if folks want to take a look at different versions. And then there's a public meeting website as well that's set up on the city's website that has a number of different maps. And would be interested to hear from folks about any feedback they have on. Redistricting for the ward boundaries. Mind you, this is different from the redistricting that was done for house and senate districts already. These are for our local elections for city council, school commissioners. As well as ward clerks and inspectors of election. And then I just have one other thing that I want to note. Which is that at our meeting on October 24th. It's anticipated that the council will be asked to consider. Well, I don't know if it happened on the 24th or if there will be a special meeting actually on it in the next couple of weeks. But the local partners who have taken over. The area of downtown that has come to be called the pit now. And I think that we have come forward with a real. Plan in my opinion. To really get the ball rolling on this project. And we anticipate as a council, whether it be on our meeting on the 24th or again, there may be a special meeting after that spoke focused specifically on this issue. That we're finally going to see some additional plans. On moving the city place project forward. 400 additional housing units, housing units or part of the plan that's coming before the council. I'm very excited to hear these developments and I'm hopeful that we can get moving on that sooner than later. So a lot packed in there would be happy to hear from folks. I don't have any time for questions now, Andy, but if not, we'll be happy to take questions or hear from folks by email or phone. We don't really have. Thank you, Ben. We don't really have much time for questions, but if somebody who hasn't asked the question already. If you have a question, I'd be glad to. Have one, one or two questions for our city council. And Joe, you had your still have your hand up. Is that another question? I apologize. I was in the Q&A. They were trying to type. No, I forgot their low rate. Thanks, Andy. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much for the update. I know we, we could probably spend the whole meeting on city council. But I just wanted to make sure that we don't have any questions. Because there's so much on your plate all the time. But please contact Ben and Joan with, with. Questions and perhaps solutions for. Things like the problem with the parks. If you have some in your mind. And we will try to move that. That and other issues. Like. Violence and helping victims of violent crimes. And we will try to move that forward. But I just wanted to make sure that we don't have any further agenda because it needs to be talked about. Thank you. We have Evan and Mariah. Is it Mariah? Yes. And actually Mariah won't be able to join us tonight. So it's just me. Yeah. Thank you so much. And thanks for having me. I'll try to not take up too much of your. Valuable time. And I can assure you, just as a Burlington resident. You know, I've been to the north side of the city that you're all having tonight. So I think it's apropos that I am. Presenting with you tonight. So. If you could give me screen sharing capacity. I'd be happy to share the PowerPoint I brought tonight. Got it. Okay. All right. And then I will, yep. Looks like I've got it now. So. Yeah, let me. Okay. And you should all be able to see. That great. Thanks Joe for the thumbs up. So my name is Evan Litwin. I use he him pronouns. And I'm the communications director for the Burlington partnership for a healthy community. So we're Burlington's substance misuse prevention coalition. We represent many partners working together on strategies to reduce the causes and consequences of substance use and misuse in Burlington. And there are a variety of strategies that we are working. Excuse me that many folks are, are working on, but tonight I'm just going to focus on one specific tool that we made for you. And to provide neighbors the opportunity to think about how it might be useful for your ward or even downtown. So what you'll see here is a circular graphic. That depicts the Vermont prevention model. And it's a socio ecological model for prevention that the Vermont Department of Health uses. And in order to effectively prevent substance misuse, communities have to engage in strategies at all level. And so the strategies that have the greatest impact focus on population level change or improvements to the other. To outer circles to impact policies and systems and community environment. Most of our work at BPHC focuses on those two levels, but it's important for folks to know that there are lots of organizations doing this work and implementing programs at all the other levels. And so when a community has interventions happening at all those levels, that is the most effective prevention essentially. And so we focus heavily on strategies that prevent and delay use for adolescents for as long as possible. So the reason why this is so important for us. Is that we know that 90% of people who develop a substance use disorder started using substances at the age of 18. And so addiction or substance use disorder really is an adolescent disease. So the more that we create environments that normalize non-use and support kids to remain substance free while their brains are developing, the better outcomes they and the community will have. And so there's a lot of data to help us understand substance use issues for youth and adults in Burlington. We don't have time to get into all of it, but I wanted to give you a quick snapshot of some of the key data about the most common substances youth in Burlington are using. And the state and folks are rapidly updating this with the 2021 information soon. But the most commonly used substances in BHS are alcohol, marijuana or cannabis and nicotine. And you can see on the slide that alcohol use has been the most common substance of choice for youth. And it's also the most commonly used substance by adults because it's the most easily accessible. But in recent years cannabis has increased to match alcohol use rates. And so in 2015, the youth risk behavior survey, which is administered all throughout the state, started tracking the use of electronic vapor products or EVPs. And you can see here in the purple line that there was a drastic increase in the use of those products from 2017 to 2019. And so local kids in the middle school and high school took the 2021 survey last fall. And so we're just waiting on that data. But one thing we're hearing anecdotally from the counselors that we work regularly with at BHS, at Edmonds and at Hunt, is that kids are using both nicotine and cannabis vapor products and it's continuing to be a really serious problem for them. So what can we do? So what can help prevent and delay use for kids and support responsible use for adults is to make healthy choices the easy choices. So we know that kids are heavily impacted by what choices the adults in the community are normalizing. So it's just as important to talk about supporting adults, particularly adults in recovery or trying to maintain a substance free lifestyle. And now with that framing, I wanted to share with you the resource we developed for Burlington. So in fall and winter of 2018, we completed an assessment of all alcohol and tobacco retailers in Burlington and staff, youth and adult volunteers and the Vermont Department of Health went to each of the stores in Burlington and tracked things like product placement, advertising, location of the advertising, like is it under three feet? Is it on the outside of the building? And we compiled all that data from the audits and used it to create maps and to look at geographically the impact of retail outlets within an area. So we looked at the density of retailers and the impact of the surrounding populations. So for example, are there a lot of stores near a school or a youth center? And then we also put it into an interactive online tool with maps of this data. And we overlaid it with census data showing things like poverty rates and things like location of schools so that neighborhoods can help, you know, in the overall community can help with the impact of tobacco alcohol cannabis in their area and increase kind of those discussions. So we know that the root cause of substance use is actually, I might just jump ahead here. Since we're running out of time. So let me show you the map actually. I might be able to pull this up for you. Here we go. Let's see if it loads all right. So what you can see here is the resource that we developed and the assessment that I was just talking about. And you can actually take this little survey right here. As well. And all these photos were taken by local youth. For the most part, some of our staff and those youth were concerned about things that were happening in the community. And you can see that density that I was talking about here. And you can drag and kind of click around at your own. Peace. So. I'll head back to my. Presentation here. Sorry about that. Yeah, I don't, I, we could just see the. Concentric circles map when you were doing that. Okay. Sorry. Well, you get it. You get, I'll be sharing the website with you. It's a good description, but you can find it on our Burlington partnership. Org website. We also have. A shortcut and I'll share that with, with you all this evening as well. So I. Realize this is a lot of information to take in some kind of. Trying to jump ahead for you. So. All. So I already said that all the images that you saw were, were taken by local youth. But here are the root causes of youth substance misuse. And kind of the strategies to prevention and initiative. And kind of the strategies to prevention and initiation right here. And I'm happy to share this presentation as well since again, some of these texts, some of these slides have a lot of text in it. So while in our community, we only currently have data on the impact of tobacco and alcohol outlets and promotion. There is a growing body of research from the state. And I'm happy to share that with you. And I'm happy to share that with you as well. And I'm happy to share that with you as well. And I'm happy to share that with you as well. From the states that. Commercialized cannabis use in the last decade. That cannabis advertising and exposure. Is having the same impact on kids. So kids are much more heavily impacted by advertising. Then adults and the research. Is consistently demonstrating that for us. So while we may kind of gloss over the ads in the local store, when we stop to pick up our, our local products, our local products, our local products, our local products, and our local products, our local products, our local products, our local products, our local products, or walking by in their walk home are more likely to have favorable attitudes about. Cannabis use, for example. And more likely to use earlier. And so. And actually I, you know, for folks who, who are following kind of the. Quick growth of the. Cannabis control board issuing licenses. because a license issued at 700 pine that I know folks have had some conversations about that's certainly not within the 500 foot buffer. But, but one thing to consider is that it is also a tier one cultivation facility so they will be growing on site as well. Actually, let me go back a little bit sorry bouncing around here. Well, I think that this is really the slide to leave you with that folks kind of consider that essentially, you know, to keep an eye on the community and what things can be done at the community level. So we can look at areas to identify populations that are bearing kind of the brunt of the impact using this map on advertising and promotion. And one thing that to consider that's not easy to map but important to note is that the industry alcohol and tobacco have historically aggressively marketed products to buy pop communities. It's also to LGBTQ community so it is harder to notice on a small neighborhood level but something to be aware of so that you can draw attention to this if it shows up in your area or your neighborhood. And so your work has kind of comparably good rates of retailer density, as you saw on that other map that I was showing you. So the numbers of alcohol and tobacco retailers near schools in your area are better than in some words. And so this is really the time to think about policies that can keep you from being exposed to cannabis products and advertising as the industry is really rapidly growing in our area. Many other states did not do this work ahead of time and now they're struggling after the fact to put some of the preventative measures in place. And so we really do have a rare window to help make kind of those healthy choices as I said the easy choices so we do have recommendations list of recommendations on the website as well. And we're always looking for folks who are passionate about this, this particular area to join our healthy BTV workgroup and hopefully I stayed in time even though I had to bounce around and had a little technical pickup there. And I wanted to leave time for any questions that folks might have so I'm going to stop screen sharing. Thank you, Evan. Yes. I have a little feedback there. Hi, my class. So, I had someone else have a question I had a question. In regard to the marijuana outlets that are kind of popping up. I'm going to do my best to answer some of those questions but any question that maybe Mariah our expert would have been able to answer I am happy to ask her if I'm unable to answer for you tonight and then follow. Okay, anyone. It's probably not. It's pretty on the surface. So, I wondered if Vermont had done anything to restrict the advertising so far. That's what I was that's all I was really going to ask if they have any, you know, because alcohol advertising has been prevalent for so long. And you know you see I'd like a picture of those kind of flashy ads and, you know, luckily, I don't feel like we have a lot of that with the breweries that we have in Ward five. Of course we have some stores, we don't have very many convenient stores that I can think of off the top of my head. So, you know, that's at a lower level, but compared to downtown but yeah that I don't know what will happen as these start getting going like if they're going to have signs out on their windows or out front or whatever. So, in my limited understanding certainly there are other folks who are better educated on this topic. I can say that a lot of this will be protected by kind of corporate free speech. And so you won't necessarily be able to target one specific industry. And if you're going to consider policy about advertising, you may not be able to consider it. Yes, you might have to consider it for all advertising, for example, of adult products. And so, to my knowledge, no, there hasn't been anything at the state level to sort of limit that but communities can certainly think about that through, you know, how do we want signage to look how do we want density to look how do we want zoning to look in our communities and so we definitely encourage folks to think about, you know, what, what, what you want your community to look like. And however, I will say that the state cannabis control board has certainly set a parameter that might make that more challenging so for example, there's not much you can do about the 500 foot buffer. And in Burlington, we're treating cannabis retail the same way we would from a zoning lens, the same way we would treat any other form of retail. And so that I think will be something for folks to consider and we just don't know how many licenses are currently in the pipeline or or applied for whatever. So, but once folks receive licenses, you know, they'll be kind of legacy into those spaces. So certainly something to for folks to think about. So maybe you said this and I missed it the 500 feet is for like near a school. They're pretty specific to school properties exactly so in your case in the south end I think the reason that the site at 700 pine was not a problem was because I think it was like, you know, 2000 feet or so 2100 feet from the school property rather than that 500 foot buffer. Generally, a lot of the sciences recommends a larger buffer, but I don't believe that the state has opted for to be able to expand that buffer. Thank you. And so I just want to offer that I'm happy to field any further questions for folks who maybe couldn't be here tonight or just something comes up later and you're thinking about it. We are in the schools we run a parent support program called parent in where we can help parents kind of have those conversations and build skill sets at home and then we also have our youth work that we do in the schools. After school programs in both the middle schools and also the high schools. So feel free to reach out to us we're Burlington partnership for healthy community and where your substance prevention coalition right right here in Burlington. So thanks a lot and it's, I hope you don't mind I want to be a fly on the wall and hear what else you have to talk about tonight because it's as a resident. It's exciting to hear you guys having such great conversations so thanks again for having me. Thank you. Keep on doing so. Okay. And Evan, you're, are you still on the NPA steering committee for four and seven. Well, actually, I was doing, I felt like I was doing a little too much so I did step away this summer from the NPA steering committee but I still am pretty involved in the neighborhood in the community. Thank you very much. And Joville and Alex, I'm sorry that we're, we're running a little bit behind we started a little bit late and we gave the city council is a little bit more, a little bit more time for all the issues that had come up so please. Is there a better place for us to sit. Right over here. Okay. Thank you. Joville King and Alex brother, correct. Yeah. Talk about their development project. I'm trying to. Yes. Great. So, I have a presentation I can put up. Great. So, I'm Joville King, I'm really interested. I'm excited to be here. And we're just starting to get you guys early in the process of the, in our development of for the two three time. So I just wanted to give you a brief overview. There's been some activity on the property you guys have seen so we're excited with the slow progress for making and mostly wanted to just open it up for questions to see if there's anyone that wanted to express their enthusiasm or their concerns, or just general questions. So I'm not going to introduce yourselves. Alex brothers some co developing the site with jovial and working on the bowling alley concept that'll be next to silt bath house called backside bowl. So the two properties will sit right next to each other. Proud to pine street on this map it's labeled 453 pine. Yes. And I'm Kelly de Roche I'm with women lamp your architects and we're the architects working on the silt bath house project. So just here to help with any questions. So just to kind of get us all on the same page this is a great map that really clarifies this area, because there's some, it's quite confusing, the different parcels. So we're the part that we're going to be developing that we're under agreement with with big data is to buy is 453 pine, where it says private future silt, and then also Bible one pine, which says private right below that. And then also the two parcels that are the lake view right along the bike path that say private zero pine private zero pine private. And I think that the third one also zero zero zero pine private so those. So there's, there was a number of lots that have been for sale. And so we are, yes, under agreement to purchase those. So what we are doing is we're just we're only going to be developing 453 pine. So that's what we're talking about tonight. So we're really excited to share with the neighborhood that we're working with the city closely with the city and the parks department to put 501, and these other lots into conservation, and to create a proposed natural area for Burlington. There will be a 21 acre natural area that will encompass the love to barge canal, and this really wild area that has previously technically been only, but it has technically only been accessible through private property. They've owned that the largest parcel there in the middle. They've owned that for a very long time they bought it originally to build the connector there. So that has been sort of landlocked with these two kind of parcels to the east. So if we're able to develop this site with these two exciting projects will be putting this 501 into conservation, as well as those three other zero pine and will really create this very significant conservation area and we know that the barge canals and that whole areas is very loved by this community and we're excited to work with all parties to make that happen. So this is kind of another, I have a few kind of site plans that will zoom in to kind of so we're all on the same page of what we're talking about here so this is the next one that actually is showing the developed area so to the left again is 501 pine and then that's our proposed development. So there's the bath house on the left, the bowling alley on the middle and there's a small commercial building that was sort of was part of the bowling alley, the kind of got but it got lobbed off into its own standalone that will be not possibly offices or retail or something else we're still figuring that out. So this is another zoomed in version. So you'll see that the entrance to the main area will be sort of across it's the multi-entrance so they're going to be when they do the connector they'll be will be realigning that their city will be realigning the multi-entrance with Howard because it's bit of an awkward intersection there so I think that will be very beneficial. We've 105 parking areas parking spots allocated in this development project. We are an immense amount of the property, especially on the left where the bath house will be will be natural area and gardens and and trees. So where we feel like it is a light touch in terms of the development compared to a lot of the projects that have been proposed there in the past. So, I'm happy to go back to those slides if there's questions. But just to show you this was the the drawings that we released of the bath house project a while ago so to kind of give an idea of and the rendering. So this is from the view from Pine Street kind of dealer.com would be right behind you, looking in this is sort of the main entrance of the building and there's a big greenhouse back to the right. That will be kind of our food and beverage program for the folks that are visiting the bath house. And the vision and the goal behind the project is really creating this wellness destination for our local community, as well as people that visit the area and can grow. So here's a bit of a view of the back side of the building so the saunas and steam rooms, hot pools, cold plunges, a lot of relaxation spaces, a lot of green spaces, and there's much green roof and green mounds on either side of the building as we as we can. So we hope to stay with the aesthetic of kind of the south end and also bring a lot of plants and botanicals to the space. So this is a brownfield site. And so the 453 is a brownfield so that that that's where we talked about before that's going to be developed. The rest of that conservation area is all a superfund site. So the only, you know, really developable volume you can develop superfund site people do all the time. But the only thing that's really, you know, ready to be developed is the brownfield area. And there is federal and state funding to do that remediation project. We have an amazing team of engineers right now doing a lot of testing and really building out a plan for remediation. So in terms of the timeline and timeframe, we're going to spend. So you've seen there's some equipment on the site right now they're taking they're doing borings are taking soil samples and testing those testing the soils to see what kind of foundations we should be looking at and to make sure that we will not have any negative impact on the surrounding areas. So that work is undergoing. So the engineers are preparing the ICA, which I can't remember what it stands for, but the environmental evaluation of the correct action alternatives. So that has been prepared, or they're working on that currently, we're planning or hoping to come for our zoning permits in early spring, and then they'll be planning for the remediation, the cap, and we'll be hoping to go for our building permits in the late summer early fall. And so if we can stay on track, we hope to have shovels in the ground. Next year at this time. So hopefully, September, October, November. And then the project will be under construction for about a year to a year. We're sort of our somewhat known quantities. It is a complex project. We're really dedicated to having a net positive effect on the neighborhood on the community and really see these both as wonderful community gathering spaces and an opportunity to work with the local neighborhood and the city of Burlington to create this beautiful and also the barge, the friends, the branch now to create a more access to this proposed natural area. So I think that's all I see for now, unless you want to have anything and then we can be with the bowling alley, and then we can open it up for a question. So the bowling, you know, you said it all. The bowling alley sort of in a nutshell is it's about a 15,000 square foot building you saw it on one of the slides, it's a boutique bowling alley, which means it's not a suburban bowling alley with 36 lanes it's got right now. The plan has 10 traditional lanes of bowling and eight lanes of duck pin bowling duck pin is short form bowling so the lanes are about a third of the length. The balls are a little smaller they don't have holes in them, you palm them, and it's a three ball game so each time you bowl you bowl three balls. It's an old traditional form of bowling that came out of New England it's mostly gone away over the years it's now having a resurgence and other parts of the country. So it's it's nice because it doesn't take up as much space but it's also very fun and very family friendly. So that's, and that's the first floor will be all bowling. The second floor will have a small food and beverage program up there there'll be a restaurant that be a large deck that on the west side of the building that looks out, hopefully takes advantage of those views. There'll be a community space up there that'll be a private event space. Like we all said there's a, there's a building there to the north that's about a 4000 right now designed about a 4000 square foot building, one story. That will either be rented as a single unit or maybe subdivided into two units and you know could be an art gallery or, you know, some type of retailer like Joe will mentioned. We miss anything. You guys got it. So, we'll be back, you know, again, we're, we're coming in early to the process will be lots of time for community comment and, but we just want to kind of get it get in early and address any thoughts questions or concerns. I have a question. My question is about. I'm sure you did a market analysis I'm curious who you're targeting as potential customers for which business your business. Yeah, so for my business. Certainly the local community, I mean that is that's going to be that's really what's closest to my heart for sure. But to build this level of a facility, you need the tourists and we're, I mean that was the market research we did extensive market research. It's a small town, but we have millions and millions and millions of visitors, and that's how our breweries survive and that's how church street drives. So, we will be attracting both tourists and the local community and you know it's a spine balancing act I wanted to be like this local community back house at the same time we want to really welcome in folks and build it to this larger level that we can accommodate both the local community and these folks from out of town. Lots of research market research analysis and working with, you know, consultants, especially the folks in Canada. There's 52 of these Nordic back houses they call them spas up there a little bit of a different you know there's three in downtown Montreal there's two in downtown Quebec City, and then there's lots around ski areas so they are thriving. And it's a big driver of tourists so we feel really confident with this this proposal it's 150 person occupancy. So it's the max occupancy that you can have in the facility at one time. So, yeah, that answers your question. On the bowling side it's predominantly going to be to the local market so we did a market study the market is underserved for lanes. Champlain lanes was down Route seven and it is since closed. So the only lanes that are in the market still are the ones out in Colchester spare time. And then there's a small boutique out in Stowe Stowe bowl. And other than that there there aren't any other lanes. Demographically speaking bowling is multi generational, you know so it's, it's, it's kids, it's teenagers, it's, you know, Gen X Gen Z millennials, all the way up to, you know, the boomer generation so that's one of the most compelling about it as a concept is it really appeals to everybody it's one of the most affordable forms of entertainment out there a game of bowling cost $6. So, you know, and it's also a weatherproof activity here in Vermont, which you know I live a couple blocks from here so I live in this ward, and there's just not a lot to do. There's not a lot of indoor activities and I have a five year old and so it's we're looking for another activity that you can do sort of year round and with the way we're trying to think about the design of it is you know bowling, typically, you know, it dies down in the summer, particularly around here when everyone moves outdoors outdoor activities. And so that's why the restaurant component on the top obviously services the bowling alleys down below will also help balance, you know, the P&L the the economic equation so that way we can have some activity there during the summer when bowling is probably going to subside a little bit because everyone's focus will probably be next door over. So, yeah, so the champagne lanes did flow so I was I was a little worried that maybe bowling is not as popular as I think that was a lease. So you I don't think it closed because of economics reasons I think it closed because there was a third lease was up. That's my understanding are we we hired a market analysis company out of California to do a deep dive sort of the same way Jovial did with the bathhouse to take a look and they said yeah the market is underserved for lanes. You're awesome. Other questions. How much will it cost for a family to come to the bath house or the bowling. Either one or both. The bowling alley it'll depend on what you opt into it's like I said a game is about $6 a person. So if it's a family of four, you know, that's 24 bucks and shoe rentals and then depends on, you know, we're open once people get in there they're having a little bit to eat they're having a little bit of drink, you know, so that's, that's where the margin is. So it'll just depend on whether people come hungry or not for us. But you know the barrier entry is very low to get in in terms of the cost and there's going to be stuff out like there's it's hard to tell on this map but there's sort of a back patio that we're imagining that's on the west side where they'll be you know some long games like giant Jenga or you know some botchy and stuff like that that you know people can just kind of do and hang out. So we don't, we're still working on our pricing model we're trying to figure out it was we're going to have. So if you're, you know, Friday night, and you're out of town, it will be more expensive. If you're a local and it's a Monday, it'll be cheaper so we're going to start trying to figure out kind of more of algorithm pricing based on seasonality, based on how busy it's going to be so we're still trying to work that out, but we're dedicated to serving the local community, and then we need to make our, you know, our balance sheet work also. So I can't, I don't have a number for a family of say four off the top of my head. But we will definitely be working on that in the next six months nine months really trying to figure out the right way to slice even slice it and dice it in a lot of ways. You know, it's not just for shifts or discounts on certain times or, you know, and it's like, how local is it to be get the local discount like is that just for Ellington is that within 35 minutes you know it's like tries that all of Vermont. So we still have to do a lot of that work to really figure out and to get our final numbers. And I think that the local, the time when locals can bring their families to that house or participate in it, wouldn't it also the time when the courts are there. Totally. So do we just say, okay, we always have this much room no matter what for locals or do we just say Mondays local tonight, and you have to have a local zip code I'm not sure how local the zip code is to come so that we really do have more of a community gathering place opposed to so a lot of people have asked we have a community survey up and a lot of people have taken it so great to get that feedback. And a lot of people are like I want a woman's night or I want this affiliated group to come in and have a night and so to figure out are we doing that are we not you know if you I travel to look at a lot of different facilities and a lot of them have the night is that students which I find restrictive because you show up and it's not the night you've been into in that box and you can't go. So we're having to kind of figure that out. So it's very kind of complex and we want to meet as many people's needs as possible so we're still working up those details. Other questions for Jobel and Alex and Kelly, right Kelly. Yeah. I live on Maple Street from stone environmental. Scott mates is here as an environmental consultant as well so if there's questions about the environment about the architecture. Yes, back there. Oh, sure. I live on Maple Street. Thanks for coming. I'm curious. I was asked before it was lovely. That was before now I'm wondering about the future viability of an indoor steamy business in the current era. And I, you know, I know that there's been some stated intent to serve the local community but this just sounds like a playground for rich people and Burlington is already unaffordable. I don't know if this is a question, but more of a request to continue to actually consider the impact of this on this community. And to not just keep making it more inaccessible for people who can't really afford to live here in the first place. I'm curious about the environmental question I'm curious about the impact on the lake of doing all of the excavation and the foundation pouring and all of the running of utility lines, things like that so that's one question. I'm also curious about if you're going to be electric or if you're going to be using fossil fuels in your buildings. So we're looking at geothermal right now so we would love we're definitely considering that energy pieces really and this is a bit of an energy intensive building or the project so we're really looking at it closely so we're really hoping for geothermal but we're not sure if it's going to work, or if it's permitted with all the complexities of the site so we'll only do that if we feel like it's really safe. Otherwise we're going to go electric, because of the renewable aspect and being hooked into Burlington. I'm going to jump to the other the beginning question. Definitely I hear you and this should be something that should be accessible and affordable and I hope that it's, I would be really heartbroken that just came out to be playground for rich people. So that is not the intention, but we certainly need rich people to come and pay top price on a Friday during, you know, Christmas. So there's that's the kind of the jungle and the dynamic, but we've gotten lots of requests to look like please we're so excited to keep it affordable. So I hear it and we're just trying to figure out how we make that work best. And the other question was that the lake and the other one was in one or two about. Maybe just like, okay. Yeah, and about the impact of killing this. Like, because after going through coven and this. Oh yeah, this is model. Yeah, everything's outside. So that that when you see when you see the, I think this is most zoomed in yet. So you do check into the I didn't bring a floor plan because we're working on it and I didn't want to get then update it in a few weeks here but you go inside you check in the lobby. And then you basically you go outside. So all the the pools are all outside the hot, the steam rooms are no inside because they have to be and the son is. So it's very kind of coven friendly in that way and will if we have to go through another pandemic or something I think we will, you're able to time and control the way people are moving through the facility. So I think that it's actually great business for them. And the lake. So yeah, there is a, it's, I mean, I would not want to develop this site if it was going to have an eye negative impact on the lake I drink, I live in tier two when we drink out of the lake. And I would be, you know, beside myself if something happened so it's above my pay grade and that's why we have an amazing team of engineers and I'll give you my word that will only develop the site if we have a really. You know, good way to do it that's really a net positive. I didn't really understand. I didn't know what a brownfield was before I started this and now I realize that we have a lot of brownfields in Burlington. And that really when you develop a brownfield you're saving a greenfield you know it's about more dense development. So it's actually I feel like there's some responsibility to come in and to repair. There's a lot of abandoned, we know, lands that have been contaminated so I feel like it's actually this sort of net positive, and we're engaging with these dirty soils and really trying to turn it into something better. So that's, I there's we get more into details but I'll have to hand it over to somebody else, but I will certainly be be back, and we'll be have more deeper discussions about it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, question online Ruby. Yes, I wonder what is going to happen with those dirty soils. Yeah, so great question, we are really hoping that we are going to be leaving most those dirty soils in place as much as possible so it's going to depend on the kind of foundation that we're able to build so that is our goal. So that we're able to kind of, you know, cap it in a way opposed to truck them off site. Unfortunately, it's not in my control of what happens it's really going to be the engineering team. That's going to determine what's going to be best for the health of the land around it and the lake and the best way that they can build. So we're going to be determining that in the coming months and and there'll be a lot of public discussion about what's happening there so it is unfolding, but we at this point we don't know. Maybe you could say a little bit more about the, what the governing bodies consider remediation. You said, leaving the soil there. You also mentioned a cap. Will that soil be healed there will it be better off than it is now will the 52 contaminants of concern actually be healed be dealt with in a way that is healthy for the environment. I think it depends on the definition of healing, you know, and there's, there's different ways to think about it and address that and there's a very, you know, traditional way. And then there's a lot of the work that you guys are doing with mushrooms and other remediation that take a long time, and that I'm very much in support of so I can't. This is not my area of expertise. And I'm happy to have one of the engineers speak to it that I came equipped with because I can't speak to it very eloquently so. But I appreciate the question and all the work that you're doing so would you like one of them to speak to it or would you like to have it addressed next time. I think if other people have questions we should go ahead and let that be a possibility but if there is time. That would be wonderful. Right well, I know the continuing conversation so. Other questions for jovial Alex or others. You. Dan, do you want to step up. There's one more. There's one more question. Oh, there's another question I'm sorry. Not so much a question just gratitude for coming back and giving us an update on where you all are I feel like we heard so much about this for a little while and it's nice to dial back in and hear more jovial about your project and Alex also more about the bowling alley. I have a favorite little bowling song that I'll spare everybody but as again a parent with young kids. I'm eager to check the spots out. It's nice for being here. Right. You want to just delve a little deeper into the to be environmental question. Yeah, I'll introduce myself first Dan Vosian. I'm a senior geologist with stone environmental and we are the lead consultant on the environmental issues with the site. So there's a, we are at the beginning of a process to evaluate remedial alternatives. And so at this point, many things are on the table that we are considering for cleaning up the site. Then that ranges from a truck and haul approach dig and haul approach to a cap and leave it. There are clearly some non contaminant issues with the site that physically restrict how building occurs at the site specifically the bearing strata below the site are not super easy to build on. We have to consider that as well. And when you layer that with some of the other issues related to the super fund, we have ourselves a real tricky wicket to try to get through when it comes to developing the site. So capping. We did mention the word cap cap in Vermont also is the acronym for corrective action plan. So that was the reference that Joeville mentioned, there will also be lower case CAP happening at the site, meaning we'll be installing engineered barriers as they were. Our goal is to not strictly remediate every molecule of contaminant on the site is to reuse the site in a way that is allows for that to occur over time, but doesn't exactly get there from day one. So we do our approaches to encourage the redevelopment in a sustainable and risk free or risk accept acceptable way. We'll say there are, you know, the sites that this site is getting to be much, much more understood as far as its contaminants of concern. And most of what we're seeing out here is related to Phil. This is this site was filled extensively after 1850 when the railroad came through and this was a pine lumber storage area, and then the subsequent industries that landed on this site that followed. So, most of what we're looking at there is urban Phil, some of it is more contaminated than others, but most of it is like what you would see in almost any construction site in Burlington. So, were there other questions, Jesse. Other question be there online or in the room. I'm sure we will have more. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me. I guess wrap up this end game meeting. And our next meeting is November 21, I believe November 21. November 17. Thank you. I won't be here. So I'm, I'm blissfully ignorant of when we're actually going to have a meeting. So, November 17, everything November 17, we will be sending out information and an agenda. So thank you all. Thank you online. Thank you.