 Good evening, and I'd like to call this meeting of the city council to order. Would you please stand with me on the site of the place of allegiance and follow by a moment of silence. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Roll call please. Mayor Dillis. Here. Vice Mayor Johnson. Council Member Lin. Here. Council Member Reed. Here. Council Member Tan. Here. I'd like to point out that tonight the council meeting is not being broadcast right now. Apparently there's some technical difficulties even though Jean is doing a fabulous job for us. But I understand it will be rebroadcast later on cable TV, on community TV. We have three special set matters. So we'd like to proceed. The first one is a presentation of the Mayor's Proclamation, requiring March 2019 as Red Cross Month. And do we have anyone here from Red Cross? Please come up please. Oh my back, you're here. And you are. My name is Romina Cervantes. Great. Thank you for being Romina. So we have a Mayor's Proclamation. I'd like to read it. It's slightly wordy, but I believe every one of these words is so meaningful. I feel like it's important to read this. So I'm going to do that. More than 137 years ago, the American Red Cross was established as a humanitarian organization, guided by seven fundamental principles including humanity, impartiality, and independence. To provide services to those in need, regardless of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or citizenship status. Today, the American Red Cross is one of the largest humanitarian organizations in the world and delivers its mission every day to prevent and alleviate human suffering in the face of emergencies. And, whereas every year the American Red Cross responds to an average of more than 62,000 disasters, and if doing disasters described broadly here, I know there are many, many important things that the Red Cross responds to across the country from small home fires to devastating massive disasters. Last year's large crises included bloodslides in California, a volcano in Hawaii, wildfires in Colorado and California, destructive hurricanes in Florida and the Carolinas, and a devastating typhoon in the US territories. Thousands of American Red Cross volunteers provided round-the-clock shelter for disaster victims, several millions of meals and snacks with partners and distributed millions of relief items. In Scotts Valley, the Red Cross is a long history of helping our neighbors in need. The Central Coast Chapter assisted with 66 local disasters in the past year alone and helped save lives through our home fire campaign. Would you like to join us? This is Revon Williams, and he is, I believe, the board chair for the Red Cross of the Central Coast. So welcome. Are you in proclamation? We get started on the timers, but we're happy you're here. Since the campaign launched in October 2014, the Central Coast Chapter has worked with community partners to install 1,800 smoke alarms in 580 households safer. Meanwhile, in an area last year, Red Cross handled 141 emergency military calls and collected 6,000-some-odd units of blood from our generous blood donors. And, whereas March is Red Cross Month, a special time to recognize and thank the Red Cross volunteers and donors who give so much to us and provide resources to help members of the community, Red Cross depends on these local heroes to deliver help and hope during a disaster. We applaud our heroes here in Scotts Valley who give of themselves to assist their neighbors when they need the helping hand. And, whereas the Red Cross shelters, feeds, and provides emotional support to victims of disasters supplies 40% of the nation's blood, teaches skills that save lives, provides international humanitarian aid, and supports military members and their families. And, whereas we dedicate the month of March to all those who support the Red Cross mission to prevent and alleviate human suffering in the face of emergency. Our community depends on the American Red Cross, which relies on volunteers and the generosity of the public to perform its mission. And, now, therefore, I, Jack Tillis, Mayor of Scotts Valley on behalf of the entire City Council, do hereby proclaim March 2019 as Red Cross Month and encourage everyone to support this organization and its noble humanitarian missions. Thank you very much for everything that you do, and thanks for being here. Thank you for the opportunity. I apologize for my tardiness. I had some challenges before leaving the airport. I serve as the Watsonville Airport Director. I'm joining the Red Cross. I've been a resident of Scotts Valley since March of 1990. So, I've lived in the area while Brace Two Suns, Scotts Valley High, attended Church and Community Covenant. A big fan of the area. My wife and I love it here. I worked over in Silicon Valley for a number of years and ended up in Watsonville. Shortly after joining Watsonville, the Red Cross reached out to me to serve on the board because the airport had a relationship with the Red Cross. Going back to the normal period of days. And I joined the Red Cross out of a sense of community, having served in the military and worked with the Red Cross in another life, it makes sense for me. But over time, it has proven to be even a stronger relationship between the airport and the Red Cross. We have, we do the Heroes Breakfast. And we're always looking out at the community of how we can assist. But most recently, the Red Cross really hit home for me because my parents still live in North Carolina and still have sisters there. And when the recent Cape Fear River, my dad was an 82-year-old board, when the recent Cape Fear River flooded, and I was talking to my dad. He said, you know, one of those Red Cross trucks just drove by. And so it was interesting being on one side of the country, being the chair of a Red Cross board here and trying to work locally to make things happen. But knowing that 2,500 miles across the country, the Red Cross was there for my family. An 88-year-old mother and an 84-year-old father who said, I don't need the Red Cross, I got a backhoe, I can take care of myself. But I tried to convince him that that may be true, and there were other people that needed it. But I want to thank the city of Scotts Valley. I would encourage you to continue the good work you're doing. This is one of a number of cities that are using March to recognize the Red Cross. We're always here to assist. I just became the board chair in July this year. I'm in for a two-year stint. And one of the challenges that I have with the board or that I've given myself as a challenge is that the board is a very interesting and diverse group of individuals. We have fire chiefs, police chiefs, county administrators, professionals across the board. And I've reached out to all of them to say, each of us bring a diverse and skill set to this board. And what I want us to do is I want us to be not just the ones that are sitting back and looking at it from a strategic sense, because we do in fact have to figure out how we're going to raise money and how we're going to support the staff. But each of us has something to bring. So I've tasked each board member to go out in the community to do things like this, to be involved with volunteers, to give blood. I mean, we can't just be sitting high and looking low. We have to be out on the deck doing what we need to do to assist. And I just want to thank the city of Scotts Valley. I want to thank them for doing this, for the assistance and for being part of us from my target is to try to be better next time. Thanks a lot. So our next presentation. This is a presentation from O'Neill C. Odyssey and the introduction of the new executive director. And we have Dan Hageley and Rachel Piven. Well, thank you Mayor Dillis, members of the council. I just want to say thank you for the years of commitment that you have made to outdoor education and to pollution prevention in Monterey Bay. Back in 2001, the city of Scotts Valley made a commitment to do this through your nine seat recycling fund. So it was a very good alignment between that fund and being able to take students from the city of Scotts Valley fully funded out to become ocean stewards through learning science and being able to learn about the outcomes of behaviors on land and in the watershed. So I'm really pleased with the support that we've got. I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. It's meant a lot to our staff and our board and the students we serve, including all those kids from Scotts Valley. And I'm very pleased to let you know I did announce before when I came to see you that I'd be retiring. Our board of directors has made a wonderful selection, Rachel Piven, who many of you may remember from her days at Save Our Shores. Most recently she worked with the city of Scotts Valley running environmental projects there and her resume also includes a spint at the California Academy of Sciences as an executive. And a lot of work as an outdoor educator, much of it on the water. So she comes to us with great experience, contacts, and very well recommended. So to kick it off, Rachel is going to make a little presentation to you about the current status of when you'll see Odyssey. So thank you very much. Thank you, Dan, and good evening honorable council members. I feel so privileged to get to be here and again echo that appreciation of your support. And also I'm so excited to work with you as we move forward and then you'll see Odyssey. I know a lot of you have had the opportunity to come out and shadow our program but one of the things that I would like to remind you Mayor Dillis is going to come out and shadow and any of you are welcome to come out on the boat and see our program at our Shoreside Education Center. I'd love to schedule that with you. I do think it's important to give a brief overview of what we do just as a reminder of what you have supported over the years. So in the Odyssey, we treat the ocean as our science classroom. It is our mission to provide a hands-on experiential educational experience that encourages the protection and preservation of our living sea and communities. And what a wonderful way to do it to be able to bring kids out onto a boat and actually experience that firsthand. All right, so really brief overview of what we do. We target our programs towards a fourth and sixth grade age range and we have the kids rotate through three stations where they're learning about navigation, ecology and marine biology and also just how their watersheds work. You know, living here in Scotts Valley, kids are able to connect living in the mountains to how that flows out to the ocean and the health of our bay. Our classroom is both the Team O'Neill Cataran and also our Education Center and each class in addition to coming out onto the boat while our program is entirely free, each class is required to complete a community service project and that essentially acts as their ticket to board our program and again reiterate that messaging of how important it is to do work in their own watershed and connect it back out to the health of the ocean. What I really appreciate about O'Neill Seattle City is that it's providing access to our students. So most of our students have never been on the ocean before and last year 73% of our students actually qualified under USDA for the free and reduced lunch program and that is a way for us to kind of measure the need of our classes and what kind of resources we're able to provide. All right, so the partnership with Scotts Valley, as Dan mentioned, we have been proud partners since 2001. Every single year we're able to with your support able to serve nine classes which is roughly 270 students from Scotts Valley. Since 2001 we have served over 4,000 students total in 162 classes. So you think about that, that's a lot of students, about 25 students per class of 4,000 total and those students otherwise would not have had access to that education so thank you again so much. And I just want to end on again, thank you for your support and I want to announce that we are having a retirement celebration that you should have all gotten an invitation for. It's going to be on April 11th at the Coconut Grove in the sun room. It's going to be a big party for Dan celebrating all that he's done. I mean it's from 5 to 7.30 open to the public or have some music. It's going to be a really, really good time. So please, our Chancellor and everyone listening and watching this, please join us and thank you again. I'd like to read a proclamation. This one is not as long as the last one. But it could be long. You've done so many things in your career and your life that I'm actually reading a book like that. 40 years of saving my shorts, thank you. Anyway, so it could be long. But I picked out the things I thought were the most important. So I'd like to read a few of those quotes because it's too amazing. After 10 years as Executive Director for NEOC, obviously that we've been hearing about, this organization has educated 100,000 students. We heard about 4,000 Scotts Valley, but 100,000, obviously more than Scotts Valley. And now that we've done that in retiring, of course, and whereas Dan Hickley has previously served as Executive Director of Save Our Shores in 1986 through 2003, where he led the movement to create the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary, and we're very lucky to have that. It's protected us in so many ways. And whereas Dan Hickley was a trailblazer in the successive effort against offshore drilling, including passage of the 26 local ordinances to limit the development of onshore facilities for offshore drilling and against the oil industry's efforts to drill off the California coast. I know I personally don't want to see oil like we saw in Santa Barbara on our coast, but thank you, Dan. And whereas in 2011, Dan Hickley was honored with the prestigious Ocean Hero Award by Save Our Shores, and whereas Dan Hickley writes a very informative column entitled Our Ocean Backyard for the San Cristatino and as an author of a book, at least one book, and whereas residents, students, and visitors to the Monterey Bay area, including those in Scotts Valley, have greatly benefited as we continue to enjoy the natural splendor of the Monterey Bay and the economic benefits that accrue to our region because of Dan Hickley's good works. And now, therefore, I, Jack DeWes, as Mayor of Scotts Valley, join the greater Monterey Bay community in celebrating Dan Hickley's lifetime of success in protecting the Monterey Bay and providing our youth the opportunity to learn about the mysteries of the ocean. Thank you so much. It means a lot to me. Thank you. Welcome to our third presentation. Our third presentation, the annual report from Chief Steve Kobax of the Scotts Valley Fire Protection District. We've heard about the Red Cross and what they do to protect this, and now we have Chief Kobax. Yeah, I don't think I can follow those two great organizations. So, first of all, thank you for allowing me to come before the council this evening to give you some updates on what the Fire District is doing and so on. So, as you know, we are a Fire Protection District which is an independent local government and is governed by five board members. So, we encompass 22 square miles, which includes the entire city of Scotts Valley. So, we're funded through property tax mainly, but we don't receive any funding from the city. We ours comes through another avenue. So, we also administer a Brantz 40 Fire Protection District next door. We've been doing that. We're going on our fourth year right now for that. So, this last year, we've continued to improve our community outreach by having a new website. We've improved the Facebook page. We've got a Twitter account, Instagram, where I'm next door. So, you can find this pretty much anywhere now. So, this last year also, we launched a firefighter safety health and wellness program in dealing with that addresses firefighter cancer awareness, behavioral health, and anything to do with firefighter health and wellness. So, we've been losing the fire service. We've been losing too many people to other things other than, you know, old age. So, we want to do our part to help reduce that for us. So, we've had some movement. Last year, we had three retirements. We promoted seven people, and we had four new hires, and we brought on nine paid call firefighters this year. So, we have a daily staffing of eight people. And we ran about 2,150 calls in 2018. So, we took delivery of a new wildlife fire engine this last year, and we participate heavily in the statewide mutual aid system. So, when we were in the state, we will send one of our fire engines there, and then we'll have call back to come back and staff behind that. So, our level of service doesn't drop here in the fire district just because we sent an engine somewhere else. So, we are running a balanced budget, which is certainly nice. And we've got several projects. We're updating the district's business plan. We have policy manual, which is a constant thing as new laws come down and things. We have to make sure we're compliant with those. It's time every three years we do our fire workings. So, we're revising that now. And so, eventually that'll be coming before this body because within the city limits it'll wrap up. I'm very heavily involved in the state level with legislation and whatnot. There's probably maybe about two or three percent of the fire chiefs in the city of California that go up to Sacramento on a constant basis in working with the legislature to get bills passed for the fire service and for the folks that we serve. Our demographics, as you know, we live in a wild and urban interface and part of what's in the city limits is considered local responsibility area. Everything outside the city limits is state responsibility area. So, in the SRA, the state of California has a primary responsibility for wild and fires. We also respond with them as inside the city limits there's a local responsibility area. The fire district has primary responsibility for wild and fire suppression. But the state also comes in and helps us out. So it's an usual thing back and forth. So, the effects of weather events, even though we're at the coast and we have high humidity most of the time, we still have a wild and fire danger. And it is when those winds are coming in off the coast, when they reverse, they don't go out and it's a dry wind coming in. And we've all seen that that's what happened at the campfire in Paradise last year despite the fuel reduction, many of the fuel reduction projects that they did perform out there. So, and when the wind blows 40, 50 miles an hour, we don't get in front of the fire. But we're going to be working with the city here on collaborative projects. Jenny and I have already met once on identifying areas that could be potential fuel breaks, vegetation management items and get those into the next revision of the community wildfire protection plan. And that's a very thick document that covers the entire county. And unless a project is in there, it is not eligible for funding, for grant funding. And that's been the biggest challenge is getting funding available to do these projects. In the state of California, the property owner is responsible for reducing the fuel on their property. So, whether it's you as a private citizen or if it's city-owned, or if it's state-owned, county-owned, it doesn't matter. The property owner is responsible for reducing them. So, we're doing some outreach education to increase awareness. There's lots and lots of resources online. We have resources as well that we can get to folks. There's even March 30th at the community center. There's a community fire prevention and response forum. We'll have a couple of panels. I'll be there. My fire prevention officer will be there. Fire will be there. So, PG&E will be there. And we'll be there to do some presentations and answer questions as well. So, we are looking at a new program, which is going to be a community risk reduction volunteer program. One of the things I've mentioned, money has been the biggest challenge. Well, we don't have personnel to go around and inspect lots and make notifications and those types of things. So, we are looking at a program where we have volunteers that would be step up and we train them to go out and do inspections and those types of things, much like Cal Fire does in their state responsibility areas. So, resources for you. Ready for wildfire.org. Cal Fire has their website. There are many different places out there that you can go to get tons of information on what to do with your property and how much. You don't have to moonscape it. So, it's got samples of that, etc. So, I'll put up for any questions if you have any. Vice Mayor Jones. Thank you. Thanks for being here tonight because it's a very appropriate subject to discuss. A few years back, Cal Fire instituted, I think the State of California instituted extra fees for property owners that each property owner might be $150 or $200 for a while for outside districts. Has that come thin in terms of manpower and so forth? What has been the effect of those fees with respect to being a more positive force against fires? I'll address what I can on that but I can't speak for Cal Fire, but I'll tell you what I know. That's the SRE fee and it was charged on inhabitable parcels of the state of California that were in the state responsibility area. So, the city limits being the local responsibility area didn't have to pay that fee. It was $150 reduced a little bit if you lived in a fire protection district. You'd have to pay like $117 or something like that. Last year, that was discontinued. The purpose of that was to enhance their prevention programs up in the state of California. So that was supposed to fund positions to go out and do those inspections and those types of things. The it did not go to fire suppression resources. Now, it got discontinued and the money that they were getting from the SRE fee was backfilled with the cap and trade funds at the state level. Excuse me, another question. You say reduction in fuel a lot of times means getting rid of dead trees and so forth, but I've known this and even recently I think the state of California implemented a plan right away there were environmental groups that kind of stiffened up against that. I don't know if you know that. I think I read that in the paper. So is there a kind of an inbred resistance among environmental agencies and so forth against doing things that would really reduce the impact of fuel with respect to wildfires? Well, the fuel reduction that the state and of course local governments like to see is what is breaking the, what we call the fuel ladder. So we have grass, the catch of the fire, the catch of the brush of the fire, the catch of the trees of the fire, we've got to break that cycle. So that's where the clearing happens. Now as far as the environmental groups and what not stepping in, it's that's not really an arena I get into but that's going to be between the state and their regulations that they've enacted and the environmental groups but at some point the entire state, no matter what group or what government you belong to you're going to have to come up with a decision to say because you can't have it both ways. We can't have reduced fire loads and save all the vegetation. It just doesn't equate. So there has to be a happy medium to come in there somewhere. I was wondering on that note I attended a lap conference and one of the workshops was with forestry on the concerns about wildfires and I know one of the things that I think sometimes is misunderstood is that the forest would be healthier if there's some trimming and maintenance and allowing that. There's not only the fire danger but the problem with flooding is we have the dead trees and drought soaking up the water that's needed and the trees aren't as healthy and they did talk about this being leading to some of the greater number of forest fires and things but the problem being that now because there hasn't been that maintenance the expense of getting, you know there's millions of dollars to go back in and do the clearing and I didn't hear any solutions just an increased awareness I think but it did sound daunting on how we would even catch up to making a forest healthier and reducing the fuel that are leading to fires. Yeah absolutely and there's many factors that you discussed there that come into play and what really, what it comes down to is if there's no fuel there to burn the fire isn't going to burn a lot. And we have, me meaning the California Fire Service and the Federal Fire Service agencies have had 120 years of suppression and so now that creates a cycle. You look back at history you remember we had all the last several years we had all the bucket yield pine trees up and down the state 190 million trees so and they were overgrown I mean so and those bark beetles they thrive on those types of things and now we're having to deal with the aftermath of that because of things that didn't happen so. One more thing you touched on and I just think we need to remember that statistics show that we lost more firefighters due to suicide this year than were killed on duty and we forget what the firefighters and first responders face in going to these areas and seeing having to pull out people or find recover bodies and animals trapped and things like that that everything takes a toll and for years in law enforcement and fire service we haven't dealt with enough prevention I was glad you started with addressing those issues because we need to remember the toll that takes you're absolutely right and there are things that us the fire service and law enforcement see that people shouldn't see so it affects everybody in different ways but we've done a really good job in the fire service on taking care of business we failed miserably in taking care of wrong people and that's really what the Health Among Us programs now are taking it is the first program in the fire service that is for us everything else we do is for the public and even though it's for us the public will benefit from that and we need to remember and make sure those funds are available and we support you in that so thank you I wanted to thank you hearing that you're working with our city manager one of our priorities as a council this year is protecting our community and we've seen what happened in other communities where fuel wasn't reduced I know that our neighborhood recently worked with fire department and Cal Fire we did clearing in the open space up above Granite Creek which was a really great thing the community benefited and the neighbors there all got behind it so is there things we can do as a council to support you in other ways? there are a few things in talking with Jenny one of the things that I brought up to her in our meeting was that years and years ago when we enacted the sprinkler ordinance one of the things that our board looked at said you know what we're going to require sprinklers in every structure now we probably should put the retrofiner fire station and lead and set the example so we talked a little bit about that is where the city can certainly help is anything that city property doing for a few reduction projects on there and be the lead for the change that we want to see and we certainly are committed to working together to do those types of things and there are certain things when grants come available if there is a possibility for us to apply in the city to apply together with us we are certainly helping to those types of things as well and it's just increasing the collaboration is a first step and there will be more down the road thank you I'd like to ask a couple questions mutual aid we had some bad fire issues fire season seem like did your firefighters participate in some of those through mutual aid? oh absolutely there isn't a major fire that happens in the county that we generally don't have an engine on as you know we're a small county so we don't have so many resources but when something happens and it's got potential a county will pull the plug and just a brief about how the system works the state of California will send their wild land response the local government will send their wild land response and both of those systems will parallel each other so if it continues to grow the state is going to call more resources we do this collaboratively the state calls more resources local government calls resources we have a very very robust mutual aid system in the state of California it's the best in the world and I don't say that just because we're in California but our demographics and the system the way it works we are the only place in the world we can put 500 fire engines on the road wherever they need to as I understand it you still keep some enough fire fighters here we don't dump everything the home front is always the priority and we will send what we can send but there comes a point in for every agency that once you once you send a circle map you're done you can't send anymore because we still need to make sure that we're carbon armored I've read about the commentary between the federal government and California in terms of how many federal dollars should flow to California for fire fighters does that affect us in any way if the state cuts back their funding does that affect Scott's Valley Fire District directly they're still going to be funding for suppression and we get reimbursed when we go out to a state fire we get reimbursed when we go to a federal fire so where the funding is more than likely going to have an effect if it's the dollars that would be set aside for fuel reduction projects, grants those types of things I know some fire districts charge for services if somebody from outside our jurisdiction or a county perhaps provided services does the fire district here do that we currently do not charge for like vehicle accidents and those types of things we are looking at them and the fire district has been looking at them for years but the only thing we currently charge for other than fees like permit fees and those types of things we can charge for negligent fires and those types of things where the property owner or the responsible party would need to pay my last question are we more vulnerable than all to some of the insurance issues I've been reading about elsewhere in terms of any spiking or insurance rates for fire insurance or for any places where the insurance comes it would say we're not going to write insurance because this particular neighborhood or this area is too much at risk is that an issue here yet? it's not a huge issue but it does exist insurance for your properties it's a very complicated system because there isn't just one or two or three factors that says they're going to write you a policy or not it varies from company to company some companies will actually send someone out and inspect your property other companies won't some companies have too much business in a certain area so you're going to time out we're not doing anymore here but that's not a reason that has nothing to do with your piece of property it just means that if a fire comes through they're going to have too much of a loss in that area in ISO ratings some insurance companies use them some of them don't and the other one is the wildland fire hazard severity zones that Cal Fire has on their website some insurance carriers will own that and if you're at a high or very high they won't write you so it is very complicated and there is no black and white answer on that but there are still companies out there writing then there's the California Fair Plan is available if you've been termed down a couple of times from insurance carriers and you can't get insurance you can go to the California Fair Plan and they will write through state legislation they will mandate somebody to write for you so still some options thank you chief appreciate you letting us know what's going on so we'll now move on to committee reports we'll start on my left with the council member council member Tim we have our AMBAG meeting association of moderate barrier governments not much to report out there they did talk about the energy watch program and pleased to report City of Scotts Valley as you know we received an award last year for our participation in their programs and they gave grants to local communities to upgrade programs, things like changing out all the lights in town to LED that sort of thing that really helps with your energy conservation all of our schools took part in that grant program as well so I was pleased to see the work we're doing there we also had our GPAC mobility meeting since our last meeting and we took in some great information on our roads in Scotts Valley their usage and at our next meeting we'll be coming over that in more detail so we're in the middle some of you may not know but we're in the middle of our the last time our community put together a general plan was 1984 so we're now updating that and I would encourage people who are interested please attend, we don't have a date for our next meeting yet it's actually first Monday and either beginning of May or the end of April and I also attended the vinyl auction they raised about $130,000 for vinyl school at the auction it was just really well attended it was a Casino Royale was the theme, so everyone got to dress up it's James Bond and all sorts of James Bond villains so it was really great, a lot of fun and raised a lot of money for our schools customer will be I attended the metro I had a couple of metro meetings towards the finance committee and the significant portion is we're still trying to fill positions we have several bus positions that are not filled so active recruitment going and also trying to replace many buses and having to also start moving towards zero mission buses and so those challenges and budget issues are continuing on going the criminal justice council meeting one of the programs actually presentations was a community corrections partnership and some of the work that they're doing with that risk youth and families and some of the success that they've had with these programs also during that we had a report from the San Cruz County County Anti-Gain crime team and happy to hear Scotts Valley has an officer Paul Myers who is participating on that task force which is really good opportunity to learn and gain a lot of experience that you might not otherwise and still be able to contribute to the county-wide task force so I'm good to hear that information some of the reports back on the good work they're doing and we're working towards some additional work with anti some programs for anti gang task force and at risk youth so that's continuing and then we have a Santa Marta Rita meeting workshop coming up this Saturday the third in the series is another primary event but we will be having them managing groundwater how can we prepare for a certain future event this Saturday at the felt community center from nine to one this is the third and last of those but they've really been informative they've had about a hundred people participating and some wonderful speakers John Laird and others have participated in the men for centers and just really if you have time this is a free event and the way in the word what's happening in Santa Marta Rita water area with water hope you can join us that's what I mean thank you chair nothing to report but I did want to do a shout out for council member tin mentioned the whole Vine Hill auction probably 20 years ago I know Vine Hill didn't use to have an auction and we saw what Brooke Noel was doing they were raising at the time 50 60 $80,000 and the shout out goes I guess to my wife Kathy who was one of like six or seven women who helped start that unless you have like a hundred auction items in your living room you really don't know what it's supposed to be but and then when our kids graduated from Vine Hill we agreed that Jim Reed's wife took over and I think they got to share that very same thing so it's been I'm surprised when you said $130,000 because in the day I thought 80 or 90,000 was like fabulous so but it's good to see that it's alive and well so thank you and there's one coming up this Saturday for Brooke Noel from 530 to 9 at Copenac Grove the soiree and I'll remind people the reason for these auctions it sounds like a lot of money that the schools are raising but even with all the community sport that we have we're still the 9th lowest funded school district in the state and so it's these sort of things that provide just the basics at the elementary schools so without these auctions they wouldn't have things like science in elementary they wouldn't have art programs they wouldn't have some of the things we all care so much about like libraries so I'm really grateful to the community for these ongoing efforts that we all participate in so thank you well I have a couple committees to report on a member of the seniors advisory council and the council has been talking a lot about advocating for more funding for seniors at the state level because they perceive our new governor being more more supportive of senior funding than the previous governor and so they're expecting there to be more senior funding for nutrition services and caregiver supporting in particular I'm also today was a meeting of the monitoring big power monitoring big power and monitoring big community power and you know I'm not sure if everybody is fully aware yet but this is PG&E is still still operating and they send us our bills they maintain all the the lines and all that but this new entity buys our electricity and we send green and so we don't necessarily see that they're kind of behind the scenes but they're buying this we're getting cheaper rates because of it that is they're going to be giving us rebates shortly and they're also I was really amazed today to hear some of the statistics how successful they've been so far and I know our supervisor Bruce McPherson and his age Jenny Johnson have been very very involved in getting that going it's now covering three counties they now have a couple cities down in San Especial County it's now one year old in existence and they now have they paid off the debt they had to borrow some money initially the debts paid off they have 40 million dollars in reserves and believe they'll have 70 million within a matter of six months they they're just moving in the right direction and they have a lot of I was asking some questions today about how are they dealing with volatility in markets and they're very smart about how they're buying how they're buying electricity how the deals they enter into what kind of insurance they get to protect themselves in case something goes sideways in the market they're also trying to wrestle with what to anticipate for PG&E because PG&E is having some issues as you may have heard about and so far the court has been willing to wait in to say that the money that goes to monitoring big community power is not cannot be attached to PG&E to settle any of the debts basically there's money every day that goes from PG&E when we pay our bills that goes to this entity and the court will rule apparently the final ruling is coming Thursday to absolutely say that that money cannot go to PG&E that it is owned by monitoring big community power that said I was asking if there's a way to have the money go to the third party so if there is just in case PG&E has issues even like dealing with their cash just to make sure so I'm not sure if that's going to go anywhere but they're doing a good job protecting our money and they're building up some reserves and they're going to level off they also have a plan to share any 20% of any additional amounts they accrue they're going to give back as additional rebates to rate payers so I'm really happy with the direction that's going in that's again thanks to Kudos to Supervisor McPherson and that's my report I forgot one thing just briefly the LAFCO meeting today we did finalize the annexation of the Coomber and Lane property to the city of Scottsville and Scottsville Water District that is finalized and and we also had some follow-up on the Central Fire Act house fire consolidations with the work being done all is going well with that as well we'll move on to city manager report alright well thank you Mayor just have a few things and keeping with the chief's comments I would like to let the community know that there is a resource conservation district of Santa Cruz County workshop that's being held on Sunday March 10 that's this Sunday from 1 to 3.30 at the Graham Hill show grounds and that's going to help residents learn how to better protect their homes their family and their animals in the event of a wildfire workshop also includes a really neat tour of fuel break work along Graham Hill where you might be interested in checking that out and that will really kind of give some information for homeowners to learn how to adapt their property and to be able to save it in case there's an event such as a fire there will be as chief noted another workshop that we're collaborating working on with McPherson's office on and other agencies and stakeholders and that is 30th so be sure to check out the city's website we'll be promoting that within the next couple of weeks another item is bicycle friendly community survey so the city had applied for a bicycle friendly status through the American Bicyclists the League of the American Bicyclists and so part of that is a community doing a survey so that the community can talk about their experience here in Scotts Valley and we really would love to achieve that status it is time sensitive so if you go to our website you can fill out that survey it will be extended through Sunday March 24th and it's also on my Scotts Valley if you can't find it on the city's web page but we really encourage you to fill that out the more people that fill that out that increases our chances to have that status and that's really important when we're looking at branding and marketing our community and attracting tourism so we appreciate your feedback and finishing that survey and the two great things that are happening at our parks we had our workchips I don't know if you saw them at Sky Park but that's a nice addition to have we also had them at Sultana as well and then we have a new gazebo so hats off to the recreation district for our excuse me division for facilitating that and I believe CAR that will be available for rent as well for the community is that correct? Yes great so please go down to Sky Park if you're looking for a gazebo to rent it is there waiting for you and that concludes my report thank you manager now we have time for public comment time this is a chance for anybody to speak about anything that is not on the agenda so if you have something to tell us about please step forward and tell us council members have anything? I have one announcement the annual Scrabble Tournament that benefits the law library and the teen peer court program put on by the county office education is happening on Saturday March 23rd morning to 1230 at the law library which is a block in the county building and if anyone is interested you can you can sign up by calling the law library at 420-2205 420-2205 or just contact me I'll be involved in the Scrabble Tournament it's a lot of fun some of us really enjoy Scrabble and learn new words but that will move on to any alterations to the consent agenda is on my pointy to the arts commission I just wanted Barbara to call us here and I just had a quick question I wanted to ask the city attorney I'm on the board for the foundation and they have a request for the touch of truck donation of non-collection fees and that's on the consent agenda should I step out for that? so can you you're not pulling the edit for Barbara, correct? no, I just wanted to if she was here I was going to introduce her I heard she might be attending the arts commission meeting tonight okay well with that I would entertain a motion for approval of the consent agenda second I am naturally approved by four persons here with council member Tim yes yes would you mind stepping up here maybe a minor point but I noticed on the applicants application their phone number and private email was right there on line for all to see and they might not appreciate that so in the future maybe you should take that out I know sometimes they're not there so I'll keep a mind that I won't take a look at that we'll move on to any alterations to the regular agenda thank you with that I'd entertain a motion for approval of the regular agenda approval all states say aye motion approved so that we'll move on to item one which is status update alternate uses for city property located at 251 Kings Village road city manager thank you mayor as you know last spring at the March 21st 2018 meeting the council got together to discuss the future use of the vacant space located at 251 Kings Village road through this discussion the council explored a variety of concepts including the conceptual theater proposal brought forward by the guild and other flexible use approaches including joint programming with community stakeholders including the Santa Cruz public libraries the council then directed staff under the guidance of the library facilities upgrade council subcommittee to complete a number of tasks including but not limited to assessing the library's current and future capital needs and also conducting a performing arts market visibility study what I'd like to do is go through a very brief overview of what we've done to date on those tasks and then we also have some special guest speakers as well that will add more conversation around those topics the first was to conduct a comprehensive assessment regarding the library's needs and so we did just that we took a review when I say we and staff and the subcommittee looked at the 2013 Santa Cruz public library strategic facilities plan and found that those needs remain consistent and some of those needs include but are not limited to the replacement and repair of roof and age back parking lot resurfacing irrigation system repair sound attenuation equipment security system upgrade interior wall repainting additional bike racks replacement of study room media wall monitors service desks marketplace shelving and checkout units to just name a few there is an attachment to your staff report that outlines these needs the total cost of these runs about three million dollars and included in that cost is completion of a new roof which is contiguous with the adjacent space so the full group would be replaced in that Susan Nemitz is here she's a library director if you have any additional questions later on with respect to those needs another item that we were directed to complete was a market demand analysis and this is to determine the viability of a performing arts center in scott's valley we did engage AMS is a performing arts consultant to conduct such a study and so we do have bill Blake our consultant that will be giving you a presentation and an overview of the results of that study I won't go into detail I'll let bill go ahead and go through what was involved in the analysis another point of direction was to complete a detailed assessment regarding the costs associated with pursuing anything that was like a flexible space we'd also want to be working with the library director to identify any potential operational implications and we did just that however it should be noted that the scope of the analysis with respect to the market feasibility study was only limited to facility demand and the alignment that was needed for viability it did not look at capital costs and operating costs however as an interim measure we did engage group 4 they're an architectural firm and for those of you that don't know group 4 was our architect for the library and so we asked them to do a few cost estimates for us and they are noted in your staff report one was for the library building envelope and site improvements that's that three million dollar number that you heard me site earlier we also asked them to calculate the minimum building improvements to occupy the non-library space and then third we asked them to calculate the conceptual rate to theater and as need loss spaces that were proposed by the guild the estimates that are located on your staff report on page 3 reflect a contingency of 10% but it should be noted that they do not include escalation costs which are projected to increase between 3 and 5% per year and again David Schnee is here to answer any questions around those but very quickly at a high level you'll see library improvement projects the building envelope which includes the full building roof library HVAC units limited site and seismic improvements is running about 2.3 million dollars added to that our library upgrades including FF&E signage and technology is running about 700,000 so that brings us to the three million dollar price tag and then as for non-library improvement projects you have the non-library space adjacent to the library building envelope which is just the HVAC only you also have non-library minimum building improvements so basically what does it take to get occupancy in there there's another 2.5 million dollars and then pricing out what was being proposed by the guild for their conceptual theater is running about on 8.5 million for a total of 11.5 million so those are a rough dollars of big numbers but again we'll have an opportunity to delve deeper if the council wishes to do so the fourth item was to coordinate with key stakeholders in Scotts Valley friends of the library if an alternate use in the non-library space was pursued and so of course as a part of the market to be on feasibility study we had about 22 stakeholders from various community groups including cultural school business and library organizations that participated of course the friends was one of those groups they also provided us important feedback in terms of the library's capital needs and also participated in survey related to the analysis that we did as relates to the market feasibility study so we have been working very closely with them and then last is the decision of what to do with respect to the guild's lease and at the last meeting in March the council asked us to enter into a 6 month agreement with the lease which we, excuse me, the guild which we did so and during that time the guild had completed some construction work which was authorized by the city manager and that was basically flattening out the floor and they did a great job in doing that however since that time the lease expired it expired in fall of 2018 and currently under real estate law it switches to a month to month so the council will have a policy discussion this evening with respect to what to do with the status of the lease and then last some questions came up about measure S the authority who makes the decisions on these projects and how does it solve flow and so at a very high level for those of you that aren't aware of what measure S is in 2016 the library financing and authority voted to place a $67 million bond measure which is known as measure S on the June 2016 ballot it was approved 70% which is exciting and great and we ended up getting allocated about $3.7 million however individual members of the JPA and the LFFA they are responsible for identifying the capital projects that will be funded by measure S and authorizing the expenditure of those funds once the project is identified then a bond measure request is submitted to the LFFA which is basically that's acronym for facility financing authority and then they review that, they approve it and then the agency goes on to draw down those bonds and to move forward with the project to date the cities receive $900,000 in measure as funding of that amount $500,000 is comprised of unspent bond proceeds and the remaining $400,000 is a special revenue distributed 3 times a year and so that gets you the $900,000 it's anticipated that there'll be another bond measure could be as early as fall 2019 or as late as spring 2020 and then once those bonds are issued and you draw down you have about 3 years to expend them so there is a timetable associated with the use of this bond and tonight we'll be looking for direction from the council with respect to the scope of work and how you want to proceed regarding measure as funds, of course other two policy issues is next steps with respect to the study and then on the status of the guilt lease I'd be happy to pause right now and answer any questions but we do have Bill Blake who can also go ahead and move through the presentation with respect to the results of the study if I have questions about the Mr. Schnee's numbers since the appropriate time should we wait on that I'll defer to you Mayor what you'd like to do what was that? This is the right time it's up to you Mayor I'd be happy to answer any questions David would as well so yes, welcome I just want to understand some of the numbers here and in particular I was interested in the non-library category HVAC HVAC which is $500,000 estimate would that be necessary whatever the use was however that space got used for we still need to spend that money more of us to make it usable so the annex space definitely needs new age factor from the roof and the whole distribution system there's no functioning heating ventilation air conditioning system in that so that cost is necessary as long as we're going to use it for something that would be necessary and then there's $2.5 million for non-library space minimum building improvements for occupancy purposes would that be things like restrooms and so forth? restrooms, electrical service, fire protection, sprinklers interior finishes, painting just getting the place inhabited electrical is a big part of that again whatever the ultimate use might be and then lastly I think we'll hear more from our other presenter about some of the what a theater might look like or other space might look like whatever the use was but here you described it as conceptual theater and mezzanine $3.5 million so can you give us a picture of what was intended with this estimate? right so for that as part of our scope as the city manager described we were really just doing cost estimates we didn't do any new design work so for that option we used the guild's most recent design proposals that they submitted to the city for building permit they had already sort of evolved and thought about flipping it to have a better relationship to the library but essentially that showing a raked floor showing mezzanines over about two-thirds of the space for storage and a control room, restrooms all the different features for their concepts which I think we have as some documents that we have in there still the windows of the theater and on their website so you mentioned restrooms again but wasn't that included in the last category? so there are lots of different ways of organizing the numbers for the city managers I think a very good direction we broke them into three separate standalone pieces so you have just the library pieces which includes the roof and the HVAC units on the roof only then just to take care of the shell and make it occupiable inside as a multi-purpose space or so the third option is instead of that make it ready for multi-purpose you would do the theater again so you wouldn't add all three numbers together you would just add the first library number and either option two or three and either option two and then so you mentioned you used some of the plans that were submitted by the Scott's Goetheater group Scott's Goetheater group and did they have those numbers or those numbers you assigned to what you saw? okay so we worked with TBDC a cost planning cost estimating company that we do a lot of work with around the bay area they've actually been involved in some of the other measure S projects so they are very knowledgeable and so what they do is it was a very preliminary design packet but from that we have a 22 page estimate that comes in line items but the cost estimate is the work of art a little more than science tries to anticipate you're going to need so much trenching to get your electrical work and you're going to have some new partitions sort of quantity of new doors finishes etc so they do a very good job trying to estimate not just what they see on the drawings which are very preliminary but what is anticipated to come through the later design phases of construction and then we add to all the construction costs we also add the soft costs for design costs for construction management as well thank you and the others have questions thank you very much thanks for pausing there for a moment you guys have a long rest you can keep going with just what you need to be like okay well let's make sure the clicker is working good evening everybody my name is Bill Blake I'm a consultant with AMS planning and research we are consultants in the arts arts and cultural space even though our name doesn't sound too artsy but we've been around as a firm for about 30 years we work nationally we have an office in Sacramento where I'm from and our headquarters is in Southport Connecticut we've worked extensively throughout the Bay Area in California I'd say about half of our work is in this area of new facility and market assessment and these kinds of things the other half is in things like strategic planning and getting people out of trouble on occasion I'm going to start with just confirming and kind of talking you through quickly and we'll kind of skip through things here the what our scope of work was and what it wasn't we were asked to do the market assessment piece to take a market-based approach to look at supply and demand so I would say what you're going to see tonight is the findings of our assessment which is different from a fully baked plan so this is the assessment portion that we've got for you tonight so the way we approach it when we look at the market if you look at the screen we take that market-based approach and the blue bubbles as they go around we look at demand in two ways we look at demand in terms of users, potential facility users who might show up and want to use our facility, rent it for their events, performances, meetings, what have you and we also look at market demand in terms of audiences what are the market conditions for ticket buyers, supporters, attendants those things on the supply side we look at the existing inventory of venues and programs in the performing arts and entertainment sector and we'll report on all of these aspects too but that's everything from the bar that features bands and music that people go to to the church that is used for classical music concerts and whatever people are using and then finally the bubble at the bottom about community this is where we some of you in this room were subjected to interviews with us and we try to understand the community context we should think what are the plans and aspirations in this case there's quite a bit of history to learn that's really important to informing what is the market and what is the situation that we have on our hands here and how might that work and so that's talking to a lot of different stakeholders getting a range of opinions and thoughts and aspirations Bill Gates wants to update my computer right now of course no time's a good time okay so the market analysis piece in terms of audiences so we looked at we like to look at primary market area, secondary market area and occasionally a tertiary market because it draws to performing arts events will happen in different ways so after talking to people and thinking about traffic patterns and then looking at some of the tools we have we chose, you can see the area in purple there the primary market area where the most of your support and audience base would come from which is close by here to scott's valley then secondarily we looked at the zip codes that mostly comprised the rest of Santa Cruz County we would consider the greater San Jose area to be tertiary at best if this were to be a smaller venue you might have some participation but not a lot of participation and support from that area we vetted this through, we had some limitations in just technical things about a couple of zip codes that you'll see here that are just south of highway 17 they drop all the way down into Soquel and Aptos so we excluded them from the primary because most of that population base is towards the south really in the secondary so some little things like that we looked at what you've got here in the primary area is a market population about 40,000 people or 16 to 17,000 households that we're working with in the market area our findings I say from a market perspective small but mighty in terms of arts participation it really is by a lot of standards a pretty strong market it's just not huge and that's okay it's their households here are more affluent more active and have higher educational attainment than California or even the Bay Area you score well there when we looked at the market data in terms of likelihood of participating in arts activities likelihood of supporting you rank high certainly well above national average and well above state of California average so we like what we see in the market area the secondary market is also quite strong in the rest of Santa Cruz County we like what we saw there there's about a 20 page appendices right up that you can go through all the data but we like what we saw there that's the numbers the facts and figures and the demographics to add texture to that we sit down and have confidential conversations with a variety of community stakeholders what makes this community tick what are the big issues what are the aspirations how do the arts fall into that context and to learn all that we can that's behind the numbers and in this case to learn about the history and the story of what's gone on here we completed about 22 interviews with a lot of different constituents there are a number of stakeholders around this project and explored all kinds of topics big picture certainly a lot of talk about Measure S and what's happening with the library and what the library's needs are and thinking about this particular building as well as just overall the development of arts and culture in Scots Valley and what Scots Valley is aspiring to be so some of our findings these are kind of the themes that we heard repeatedly here on the positive side I think folks are looking for arts and culture to help catalyze the community become another community gathering place be a stimulus for the economy help local businesses have yet another tent hole if you will another way to drop people to Scots Valley to spend dollars in restaurants, gas stations hotels etc it can be a stimulator in that way besides just the intrinsic benefits of having more arts and culture in your community and a venue number five provide a locus of activity people are believe that there's more opportunity to provide for young people in the area of arts and culture outside of schools I think what we hear is your schools do a pretty good job there but there's always a need for more and more places to do that and that's something this community could use also regionally we heard from arts organizations and talked with them about sometimes the difficulty of accessing the venues that are available and we'll report more on that too but that can be hard to get into do your play in a school run facility when you need it more than just Saturday to do that you need it for quite a long time so there are those challenges that we heard about but the positive of that is there's an opportunity and need for some kind of a space here and certainly people to recognize that there's potential to have programming that incorporates what the library wants to do and the performing arts that there are overlaps there I think this project is actually the third project in 12 months that we have worked on as consultants that have involved library and performing arts programs coming together and certainly several more that we've worked on over the years but there's always potential there culture, literacy, learning performance all together as libraries certainly are evolving to be more than just a place to check out a book the arts are something that they can turn to we also heard some areas of concern and question about this project one is about what would be the most appropriate type of space and are we really going to be able to provide that in the space that we are looking at and what would those needs actually be in terms of size, quality, functionality will those things happen or not potential renters are always concerned about access to the calendar and affordability can they get in when they want to get in and can they afford it so that was a concern the facility and the desires of the library not being fully addressed we've heard about that from quite a few people about the library's needs and how would those be incorporated into the plans and the plans for that space in general a lot of major S discussion around that we also heard about the current project leadership the ability to execute there has been a lease for a long time for five years now with the extension some things money has been raised resources have been raised but not enough to actually execute and finish the project and that raises questions and has question marks in the community about is this going to happen not completely uncommon and then questions about will there be fundraising support both for the upfront capital that you need for this and the ongoing operating support for a performing arts facility as the donor support there and will it continue to be there throughout the life of the project or of the operation very important a lot of concerning question about that and we understand the questions about the city's role in that and the financial support both capital and ongoing what would that be if anything some of the big themes lots of small themes but they don't fit on the slide so we'll go forward next when we assessed the environmental scan we assessed the market and looked at other venues we documented quite a few quite a long list we're not going to go through all of them now but you see a lot of them are a lot of venues that are used for arts and cultural activities are located down at Santa Cruz that part of the market fewer up here in Scotts Valley but many around a lot of them are associated with schools and even a few churches we believe that again there's this issue that came up a lot of them are managed by schools which means schools first for that use and you can get in schools not using it but that can be difficult and we looked at a lot of even live music and clubs and things like that we talked to some business leaders about their needs for meeting space for meetings and seminars and those kinds of things and there seems to be a bit of need for that up here in Scotts Valley as well your new hotel may cover some of that will this be posted I know some people are will this be online so if someone wanted to refer to this it is currently online so there were eleven spaces that we called out of the long list and said we think these are the most kind of competitive with what we might be building or creating here in Scotts Valley so we zeroed in on these eleven you can see really clearly if you look at the management column there schools college school district the tannery art center operated by jewel theater company terrific but they are a producing theater company which means they produce their shows and have a pretty large footprint in terms of calendar and their shows come first and they certainly do rent out the surplus days but they are it's hard for others to get into these spaces is the big finding from the round up there spaces exist it's hard for everybody to get in and use them then with the help of city manager's office the theater guild we circulated a survey to arts and cultural organizations around the county as well as some business groups as well to test for meeting use and it was very interesting there was a long survey I'm going to give you the highlights that we think sort of point to potential here so we want to know about current activity what would your projected use for space be what are your specific needs in terms of wingspace, backstage space loading access, audiences and of course seating capacity and our takeaways from this in summary are that we did encounter a number of small performing arts organizations many of them are youth focused or associated with educational institutions there is a demand for theater space clusters in the 200 to 300 seat range around 250 seems to be sort of a sweet spot I'll show you some more on that in a second for a proscenium theater I will also explain what that needs just a moment as well with visual aid which will be easier I think for that kind of space and a lot of demand for rehearsal space and then finally having space that is available and appropriately equipped particularly for large cast but every theater group needs to have a lighting system no one wants to have to bring that in and they're looking for backstage support spaces and spaces for their audiences and those kind of things so I know there's been some discussion about what kind of what kinds of spaces could be developed in the space that we're talking about and so in the survey we did ask about prospective users need for different kinds of spaces so we talked about proscenium stage which is a very traditional theater form when you think about a performing art center likely in your mind's eye you're thinking of a proscenium stage fixed seats on a raked fashion in the audience a proscenium arch that frames the stage and behind that arch you have wingspace and all kinds of space to hide props sets costumes actors all of that versus a black box or studio theater space which is very flexible often retractable seats or not fixed seats that can be stacked and moved so you can that image there is from West Sacramento you can take all of that equipment away and just have a big flat floor box room if that's what you want to do some theaters love that because they can reconfigure the room for every production they do we also talked about rehearsal spaces different kinds of flat floor multi-use spaces and even spaces to teach classes whatever that might be so when we talked to them we had a number of organizations answered this question what purpose would you divert activity to Scotts Valley a number of them would simply relocate if they could get a better deal and a better access to the calendar than the venue they are currently using they would simply move up here I think the good news about this response is that a lot of organizations believe that their audience will follow them and that Scotts Valley is not too far from Cabrillo College or wherever they are performing now that was good a few would take advantage of a new facility to expand or add new programs as well a new space which is again not uncommon when a new space is introduced into a market area what we really wanted to look at was what seating capacity would get the most use is how we approach that and so we asked respondents to indicate what their ideal or optimum seating capacity would be and if they could get that how often would they use it how much program would they put into a facility in Scotts Valley that met all of their needs all or most of their needs and you can see the demand really does cluster in and around 250 seats by a number of organizations the little boxes there are the number of performances or technical rehearsal that's the number of days of a stage that they would take out for their activity if a facility met all of their needs so for some that would include things like fly systems, trap space big wings large dressing rooms and those things for some because there are a couple of smaller theater groups there would be fine with less amenities backstage but we let them sort of dream let's respond and identify what their ideal is and what would they use their ideal 212 projected use days in that kind of sweet spot of 250 ish seats that's pretty good sometimes at this stage of planning we like to see the demand up over 300 because we know some of it will drop off as space becomes reality so it's a little on the stock side but clearly there is some demand for your arts organizations in this region for a new and better space in what they have now we asked respondents again to talk about what their ideal facility would include many of them talked about I mean actually they talked about these things choral risers some very important for some of the choral groups particularly associated with schools you need the risers and you need the place to store those risers several of them who are do a lot of musicals musical theater really strongly requested orchestra pit place to put live musicians below the stage that can also help with scenery circulation large dressing rooms because some of our users are youth organizations that tend to have large casts and they need places backstage to put them wing and fly space to support scenery movement quick costume changes dancers like to have a wing space to run off stage and slow themselves down to get to the wall other kinds of support system good acoustics, good lighting system sound systems, those kinds of things are what people told us they are looking for a new and better space as well as front of house space for their patrons concession, code check enough circulation space there when it comes to black box I think this might be discussed a bit tonight we found five users that said the box would be great one of those I believe was the library system itself this is what that would look like pretty different than proscenium fewer amenities both backstage and on stage but it's a very technical box you can have great sound systems and great lighting systems and do interesting productions usually with smaller casts smaller groups of performers and smaller audiences so we rolled this up and we thought it was interesting to look at the type of space the ideal capacity where we think there is a cluster of demand in terms of size of those spaces and what that means in terms of utilization and you can see the drop off from proscenium is the most demanded followed by the flat floor kinds of spaces but it's pretty significant drop off in what the demand would be when we get to rehearsal space and classroom space quite a bit of demand for that kind of space which can actually be sort of messy a bit unfinished theater companies are always looking for a rehearsal space I can tell you that at a very low cost to be able to park in there for a few weeks at a time and rehearse their shows so not a surprise there's a lot of demand there but that's a pretty significant amount of demand for rehearsal spaces as you've got okay with the market assessment coming to completion we then sort of looked around it at comparable venues what sort of plan might this market assessment lead to and what would that look like and here there was a lot of different ideas about that so we actually went in three sorry I'm pushing the wrong button we went in three different directions looking at comparable facilities so one direction we call it a community venue is more of a traditional community proscenium space with the seat count that matches our demand probably fixed seats a lot of backstage amenities and space backstage to hold large casts and those things we looked at a couple of those we then called the middle the middle bucket library venues or a more flexible theater type that is associated with a library or a community center kind of stuck together with another type of entity and how that would work in some examples of that and then of course we looked at what we call a not-for-profit adaptive reuse kind of a space which exist in lots of places and they tend to be theater companies that are inhabiting storefronts or warehouses or other found spaces and making it work because that was clearly in our mind what the guild was proposing and what this space on its own lends itself to it does not lend itself so well to a community venue but it certainly does more so for the other two options that we looked at we wanted to illustrate those so community venues we looked at the firehouse art center in Pleasanton as well as the Sunnyvale community center theater some may be familiar with those spaces but more firehouse art center is actually a flexible space but it's quite nice it can be used as a proscenium configuration Sunnyvale is more your traditional community proscenium space the library venues we looked at Dayton Ohio recently recently done as well as West Sacramento community center black box that's the picture there it was a group four project and one that I'm familiar with because I'm from Sacramento and it's a good example of how a theater theater space and program are nested in with the overall community center there in West Sacramento and how that's managed and run with several adaptive reuse kinds of spaces to sort of illustrate what those can be the picture there that's on the screen is from a space in Chicago it's rented by producing theater companies there that make the space work and they can certainly be dressed up but they tend to be they tend to be they've adapted to the space that they're trying to have it they tend to be more straight theater I mean not theater and smaller cast but certainly do a lot of different kinds of things in those spaces what they tend not to have is large backstage areas and things like loading sets in and out can be not efficient because it's you're kind of making it work through different doorways and existing conditions that you're adapting to and we saw these as an important distinction in as we communicate with back to the market about what might happen in this space is that what could be created in the annex space is more of this kind of theater and less of that so that leaves us in as we can kind of conclude the assessment piece with some open questions that I'm sure we'll talk more about but it's really about the community's needs and opportunities and what is the highest and best use of the space the annex space for this community the best use of measure s funds and determining if the demand is sufficient in this community to sustain and build a performing arts center that of course leads us to questions about capital about resources both for the upfront capital that needs to be spent to develop these spaces and ongoing operational support and then the human resources the leadership resources needed to pull all of that together who's best situated to leave the charge there and do that and then what might some of the obstacles be to getting there which can be a pretty long list we just tried to summarize it into three bullets because it did on the slide these are some of the questions that I think would need to be tackled before we take this assessment into a plan and some of the and some of these questions are kind of to help counsel to frame your discussion and the way you might think of this as trying to find some paths forward our work just to be clear as well what we've done what we've completed is the assessment portion if we were to go forward and start developing a plan we would propose to work with probably group four architects to think about what is the space we would then want to develop what we call a profile to go back to some of those key users that responded to our survey and we sat down with to say if the space is this what does that mean for your use it may not be your ideal space but it would be something and if we can define what that is whether it's a black box or a fixie or what have you what does that start to look like we would want to talk again with counsel and whoever the operator of the space would be about importing program and touring what that would look like and then start running the business plan economics that would then show us how much earned revenue what would the cost be who would operate etc thank you for listening that was the fast version I can keep going let me have a question may have a few questions at this point I think many of us have had a chance to meet with you and I appreciate the time to go over these things with us and have a little more time to ask those extra questions I personally just defer but let the public know that you did take the time to meet with all of us and really make sure we understood your report and we appreciate that time I have three questions first what's PAC you had that on the discussion items and I wasn't sure submission I was at the arts center sorry I tried spelling it out it looks different that was one question second is I just want to make sure I understood right if I likened I think I heard you say that the black box was kind of what you heard as maybe what some folks including the library folks would generalize if I heard that right that was kind of a profile that fit into mostly what you heard from some of these individuals and then the third option the not-for-profit adaptive reuse that fits more with what you were hearing from the theater folks and to go further is that reflective of what the plans that you were looking at when you put that what Linda I should say when Mr. Shade used that number in the report do you think that fits I think so I mean I I understand yeah I mean essentially I think the plans that the guild has had drawn up and developed we would say that's that adaptive reuse kind of plan so the numbers that group 4 has put to that goes with that one the black box I don't think there are numbers on a black box but it might be similar it might be similar a lot of the same theatrical equipment systems would be the same that you would put in for both you need the same electrical load you certainly need HVAC no matter which of those you would want to go for last question not in your PowerPoint but in the report similar to the staff report you talk about lack of alignment in three different areas would you mind going over that briefly to talk about what appears to be out of alignment that could prove challenging for us yeah and I think that's one of the things that this council and this community frankly are wrestling with in general I think there's three sort of observed three things that are not connecting here which are creating some difficulty one is that there's a little bit of perception and reality about what arts users and even some in the community generally think of when thinking of a new theater in Scotts Valley I think they are thinking of more of a proscenium theater with all the finishes, backstage amenities front of house amenities that would go with that and that is different than what the annex space will contain and there's a little bit of misalignment there about what is thought of, what is needed and what is able to be delivered in that box so that's one the second area is some alignment and this may be a little delicate here but we have volunteer leadership of the guilt that have been together for quite some time there's a history there of many in that group running the theater space at Bethany College for a while and able to do that on more of a grassroots level way they have some donated equipment and those things that are trying to come in on a more makeshift fashion but we are in a building that is owned by a municipal government in California and sometimes those things that just causes conflict in and of itself I don't like saying that but I think that's just the reality you're trying to mash a really passionate strong volunteer theater group to work with a municipal government and that kind of issues there and then finally when you say needs of government you're including the needs of the library the next kind of alignment has to do more with the library you're talking about it's different work with the departments of government and what the government requires in building rather than a private requirements of prevailing wage prohibitions on volunteer labor you need a certain level of capacity organizational capacity to just interface with with a government entity or a large foundation or something like that if the landlord here were a private individual a friendly individual that was giving the guild space for not a lot of money this would probably be a different story you could put in your donated seats and just try to make it work for a while but when you are stepping up to be in partnership with a large entity like a municipal government that just requires a certain level of capacity on the other side I think that's been a struggle and I think some of that sort of even comes into the relationship between the guild and the library and that's maybe another area where we're out of alignment I think the community sees that there's great potential for performing arts and library services to have some crossover but so far we've been unable to there's been no plan to do that there's been no communication to really to really identify what the library's hopes and dreams are for that space and what we heard there was that the library has long just considered that the existing wall is kind of the end of the universe where they're kind of allowed to start thinking and planning but we think there's some misalignment there I mean what the library's needs are their hopes are and future aspirations and then what is proposed that's another area where there's a little bit of that going on so that's what we mean by alignment I wanted to echo what Council Member Litz said thank you for the time that you put into this especially for the time that you put in in outreach to people and organizations that have worked very hard for many years and have a real stake in ensuring that everybody's voice was heard is a really important part of the public process that we try to follow here and it sounds like you were able to achieve that very well so thanks for doing that the question I had for the slide where you referred to 212 days of projected use I think you said that was a little bit on the soft side in a perfect world you'd like to see that closer to 300 or over 300 but I don't remember the words you used there was the implication that I got from that regardless of what the number is that number tends to go down in reality rather than going up and so in other words well you don't have a crystal ball on camp project that it's going to be exactly 212 212 is your best estimate but based on what happens in real practice that 212 number is is it fair to say that's your most accurate number but it's also more of a best case scenario where it's just a real number more likely to be lower rather than higher the answer is I think it depends on what you build it depends on what actually exists so if we were to build a ground up small performing art center with trap space, proscenium space wing space can accommodate large tasks we may very well be at around 200, 250 use days from those users where we build less than that I would think that the utilization would fall out a bit from that to 100 number if that makes sense yeah and just again to be clear you had indicated that you thought anything other than a proscenium anything lower down the scale of quality and thoroughness and scope of the project could lead to a fairly substantial drop off in use you're pretty confident yeah I'm confident that that's what the data tells us right you could always come up with more programming but I don't know who would be in charge of that programming that would fill in those days the data tells us that the demand in the market would fall off significantly thank you again if I can add to that customer member Reed's first question we talked today a little bit and I believe we talked about one of the other things that could cause the number to drop is the 212 assume that everybody gets their slot and if they're competing for the same spots whether that's a Friday night or Saturday night or something that that would bring the number down because it can't get all the slots so I think that's one reason why it might drop correct that is correct in fact that if you were to take this to a planning phase there would be a significant work around who's doing what and when and how does it fit together to kind of try to have a full calendar to be looking for those just calendar jam ups where users might be really competing for space as you said today it's an indication though of demand that in its purest form it's just an indicator of market demand any other questions before we open it up with that I would like to hear from folks that have questions or comments can I ask how many individuals here might want to speak and raise your hands can I say a lot so certainly we can have three minutes per speaker and there are some lights up here green, yellow, red so when you see yellow we'll ask you to stop once it gets red so with that please come on up if you want to speak to us we didn't raise your hand you can still come up and speak I hear some discussions you can come up good evening I'm always a little nervous speaking in public but I'm a big supporter of the arts and libraries so I read this prior to the meeting I did read the report and so it appears that this is part one of a three part report and apparently it was rather costly so you have to I guess decide if you're going to go ahead with the other two parts and I wonder where that money was coming from finding the study I don't know if you're prepared to answer that or this is just my time to speak my concern was about using letter S funds for this it sounds like the library the trend in libraries seems to be a demand for flexible space so you couldn't very well put an orchestra pit or a lot of room for the risers and stores like this it seemed that would not be as flexible as perhaps the library needs are I guess everybody does want rehearsal space yeah I also made a note of the alignment issues and I thought those were concerning you know yeah I just thought equating that space which I assume is like 8,960 square feet what's on here as far as the warehouse event space and the library doesn't you know the library may very well need to expand in the future so that space needs can't be taken permanently up by a theater yeah the comparison with the dating Metropolitan library was kind of took me to back because that's a 224,000 square foot library so they can have a theater there this is we're talking a small project so yeah what if there was a group of people who came forward they were model train enthusiasts and they say we need a space for our hobby and the community of benefit could they justify using Measure S funds for something like that I will have concerns about the Measure S part of it thanks can you clarify for me please could you clarify just when you said that who pays for the class when you talk about the study we will answer that just for Judy anyone else want to speak to us so my name is Ray Gorski I live here in the community I'm a member of the theater guild and it's kind of about performing arts which is the performing arts chunk of things and first of all thank you for a very good survey we appreciate it it sounds like there's some real challenges ahead for all of us the question becomes do you have a picnic table and a space for kids to run around or do you have a mountain view community performing arts center which is on the $8-9 million range the idea of having an orchestra pit is a wonderful idea it's also very expensive the approach that the guild took is to reuse and donate a whole bunch of equipment so I'm not going to get into a debate on it there are people in the library that are saying keep your snicking hands off of our money and it's I put that money in and I see this is a very good use of that money the guild will come back and get an agenda item at a later meeting I think we've got some good ideas our challenge is to figure out where between the $11 million beautiful perfect performing arts center and the picnic table and the library and the theater people how do we put those together how do we work together so that I'd like to see this theater happen before I die I'm planning to be around for a long time but we don't want to wait 20 years to make it happen we'd like to make it happen and that says we need some people to get together and figure out how do we make this happen so we're going to put our heads together and come back with hopefully some ideas that will help we'd like to see the council to do the same thing and see where we go from there there's very great potential here we think and we just got to figure out how to do it Larry can I go and join in just for a second go ahead thank you hi I'm Larry Smith I'm also with the guild I live in San Cruz but spend a significant amount of time here my kids were all educated in the Scotts Valley system over at Brooklyn Alley great to hear how much fundraising they can do I'm going to probably tap into them for helping us well but I guess I would just say we were so excited and encouraged to see the results of your survey we knew it, we knew the demand was here and to see that the citizenry gets behind theater we knew it and loved to see that I think one of our challenges was to look at your primary area and we know that as far as demand goes the primary as I think about it goes well in this, you know, San Cruz to look back at Bonnie Dune and all that it's not probably not, you probably looked at it a little bit differently but when those users came and said our group will bring all those customers to Scotts Valley they definitely will from all over and so I wondered if that ever challenged what do you think maybe the primary areas you went through it but it's neither here nor there I guess I would say super encouraged about the demand, I think it supports the need for theater here and we all kind of wanted that to show the challenge areas I don't think are insurmountable at all we've got a library and GIL that was mentioned there's a library kind of point of view and GIL point of view we wanted nothing more than to get together and figure it out so if it's a group like you or somebody that helped that happen let's do it, we're not here and we've never been here to say we want to build a theater and we want to run it and that's all and we don't want anybody else involved now we want to put not a theater building we want to put theater for the community to enjoy so whoever builds it, whoever runs it it's fine with us, we want good theater that's what the community wants we've got a plan and we've got a group that can do it we're on that, figure it out, we'll do it so like Ray said, we're going to take a week or two to look at we just got to look at it just like you did just to emphasize that point about what we need I think that's the only last thing I'll say do we need an 11 million dollar per senior theater that matches mountain view we don't and we're a little community but a small, you mentioned a small per senior theater what does that cost? and yes you're using kind of the same amount of things as much to give quality theater I'd encourage the city council and I know you've seen all plays especially you with your kids but right down at Loud Nelson this weekend is The Sound of Music put on by PCS, specifically to school it's an incredible performance and their professional quality is amazing in a tiny little rinky dink theater we can do so much better than that theater with far less than the numbers you're talking about and give all those groups, CYT Mountain Theater, all those groups the venue that they really want go see that play and ask yourself is that the right venue or can we put something in that space that makes sense and I know we can for a lot less money, I mean this is your area of expertise I don't want to step on that but there's a middle ground there somewhere there's a library for their use I hear that and that's got to be part of it our plans tried to flip it around to accommodate them there's probably going to have to be realistically more accommodation realistically and I think we know that we're good with that but we're your partners we're the library's partners let's put the theater here in Scotts Valley thanks a lot we'll be back in two weeks for one of the next meetings that's okay just go up there if you want to speak that way we can hear you they're taking a while take your time I apologize okay I'm going to start talking now we need to have a recording so everyone can watch it later on okay hi I'm Jewel and I've been in Scotts Valley for a couple of last 10 years and I guess I'm a little confused about the map it's according to the report that I've heard there's going to be about 3.7 3.7 million dollars that's available from measure S funds for spending on something library ish okay and from what I heard it'll cost about 3 million just to fix the roof if you've never been in the library you'll see huge cans that are absorbing all the water that's coming out of the broken roof right now they have to empty them every night there's huge areas that are too wet to be able to use for books or for programs so there's going to be at least 3 million dollars just to fix the roof and to do the HVAC that needs to be for both sides of the building so that leaves 0.7 million dollars to do everything else and I don't see how that's going to fund any kind of theater as much as I love theater I don't see how that's going to happen so there has to be some kind of way of coming up with more money if that's what you want to do or be realistic and say our community right now can't afford to do anything more than make sure that the library doesn't wash away and the books that are there don't rot so that's my question and I really don't have anything more to say thank you let's go ahead so I'm Trish Malham I'm an arts commissioner for the city and the city council to think about the fact that we started out as a group that wanted to basically provide the community a space for theater that had been discarded from Bethany, no more Bethany and because there's no place here for anything like what's happening at Bethany the high school used it many small theater groups used it and sure when you ask people in theater what they want they're going to say well we'll come if you have a fly system and we'll come if you have a proscenium seating and we have to have big dressing rooms loud mess that doesn't have big dressing rooms they're cast as over 40 or something but they make two alright because I'm in theater I've directed many plays for kids and Judy's daughter was in one of them actually many years ago, Oliver she was Nancy people make things happen and there is a difference between a theater you know in order for theater to happen theater has to have a space I noticed the biggest use that was demanded was her rehearsal space okay and we have right now stages being built you know scenes being built because that's a great open space to do things in but I just want you to just conceive as we go back to our boards and we all get together and try to come up with some meeting ground between these disparate you know visions that there is theater and then there's a theater and theater is not a theater theater happens can we also like to speak Dush and Cross Creek I I'm going to ask both sides to hold the eggs, don't egg me please I I've lived in Scotts Valley for 25 years and I have been the professional beggar for the arts I can't sing dance do any of that stuff I'm a somewhat good writer but the arts are important what I see is so I'm going slightly off point here Scotts Valley we know is hitting this fiscal crunch we need something to bring people here spend their money leave their tax dollars here go home or maybe buy some of the housing that's proposed hopefully in much smaller quantity that's been proposed but what I mean to say is we need something as a drawer and there's nothing like a marriage between the arts and literature so one of the things I get asked because I always say oh you know this is what's being planned and they're talking about it but honestly I can't give reasons because I don't have very good memory but out there obviously we must measure as funds because there's talk about using it obviously there must be a legal reason that we can use it so I think we need to clarify why we are being to use that even though it's for the library obviously there's a reason and I know I've been on Friends of the Library since we the night we got together in July of 2008 it's very dear to my heart and I know that we are out of space we never did get the space built for the friends to have a space to store stuff and everything but by that same token a theatre I went to the jewel for a show and you know parking everything and the report showed they get first dibs I know people say oh there's all these places Cabrillo etc but we just saw that there is a need I really want us to come together and I really just like a gentleman over there said I would like to see the library and the guild sit down together because it's been going on for years and there's a lot of well they said this and they said that I just want that gone I want it gone and I really want the library to be able to let the guild know what their needs are and why and the same thing the other way I just want us to find a balance thank you I'm sorry thank you I'm Sylvie Lee I'm president of the Friends of the Library and we are not the villains in all of this so please put that aside I had a two hour lunch with Ray Gorsky talking about the cooperation between the library and the theatre what you need to understand is our career was as a music teacher theatre director dancer and performer both at Cabrillo Park Hall I love theatre but I also love our library and I'm looking at what's happening in our building right now and there wasn't an exaggeration about the water pouring in through the roof and things getting ruined and we've got to get that building fixed and one of the best libraries in the county is not the best library in the county and we have a responsibility to take care of what we've been given and we're not taking care of it right now there are really serious problems that need to be addressed that roof should have been fixed last summer but it wasn't so I'm not anti-theater we are not anti-theater but the things we've talked to Ray about are concepts of what the library can use in there and the theatre guild's concepts just aren't matching right now we need a shared space we don't even have a desk in the library and yet the friends have raised thousands and thousands of dollars or programs and all kinds of wonderful things at the library because we love it so much we have a cabinet thanks to Kirsten we have a little shed out on the back patio to store books because most of us I'm 81 most of our friends are not capable anymore carrying great big boxes of books around at home and that's what we're having to do because we don't have any place to put things so please use the yes on s money to do things in the library that need desperately to be done consider what friends have done for the library and give us a little bit of help and really I wish and I hope there's a way to make the theatre work also thank you thank you all so we'll bring this back to the council but first City Manager Hariana can you clarify where we got the funds to pay for the study no funds discretionary dollars thank you I'm having and this has been tough the whole way I would say my heart is one place and my head is somewhere else and I tend to end up going where my head tells me except for my wife that's another story but on City Council stuff it's where my head goes and so that's why and I naturally tend to go to numbers I naturally tend to go to legal obligations and even moral obligations but where where should we be going how much do we have to spend is the money there to pay for what we want to and we certainly do need to meet our obligations whatever they are so I put all that together and what I struggle with is first before I can look at the operations of whatever goes in this space I need to look at how is the place going to get built and and brought up to good maintenance I certainly agree that the maintenance is really important and we need to be able to answer your question what are we going to do it and so I'll do my best to get you a good answer so I see the measure S dollars and one of the first questions I asked well back was how much you know do we have a measure S dollars and what's it going to cost to do this project because I was thinking I was looking for ways to certainly meet our library obligations I didn't know that we had this many needs of the library and I guess I haven't been to the library often enough recently to be able to see the weeks I'm hearing about but I wanted to make sure that we had enough money to meet our obligations and it would be an extra money I was looking for ways to help the you know possibly the theater or whatever use work we ended up with to do something that would help the community find that bond because I think there is a big bond between theater and library it's all culture it's all and I thought there was enough play I could probably say that I want to honor the taxpayers who voted for measure S and we told them it was going to be library and associate things so it would have been meaning making that connection how do you show that's good for the library and ultimately I think if both were successful they help each other I think the library would bring in more people and the theater and more people if we went down that line but anyway I look at I'm hearing 3.7 million dollars in measure S taxes I'm hearing three and a half million dollars if you look at the 3 million for the library itself and half a million for the HVAC in the adjacent space and then I'm hearing that we need to look at inflation because costs go up generally they go up and three to five percent a year so I look at that and I say okay there's 3.7 measure S taxes and there's 3.7 million dollars of needs to fix the current library problems we're aware of and to do the HVAC and the HVAC is important to me because whatever we use that space for it sounds like we have to do the HVAC and if that's half a million dollars that's where it is if we're going to make that functional space so to me the measure S dollars are committed and so I would as one person say that that's where we ought to spend measure S dollars on those if we do end up somehow through this discussion with the theater they would be helped by the new roof and by the HVAC in that space so then we have heard lately about how much money may have been raised for the theater itself for the construction and so not hearing anything new I can only assume that a whole lot more has not been raised and so before I can go to thinking about how successful a theater would be and what the demand is how much how much these folks would pay if they come in I go first to the is it going to get constructed and I'm not seeing even if the eight million dollars is off by even it's only half of that four million dollars is a big number so I don't see getting constructed in the future and I think I have an obligation to have the responsibility to use the space for what's appropriate and what's best and to not tie it up for an extended period of time and we've been trying to I think we've been supportive I think we all really would love to have a theater but as one person I can't go there because I don't see the theater getting constructed in my lifetime I shouldn't say that but in the near future and so I can't even get to how successful the operation would be because I can't see it getting constructed so that's what I meant so I would personally like to go towards just to skip ahead and with others I'm enjoying it and so should I have opinions but to me we should terminate the month and month and move on to explore other options as they may be and talk about what kind of studies we may need or maybe someone else who stepped forward and say here's another use that would make sense so that's my opinion I'd love to hear what my fellow cast members believe cast member I think all along our intent was that we knew the roof needed to be fixed and those monies from Asia do need to fix the roof but I don't know how you fix just part of the roof so it seems natural that you would fix all of the roof and that's got to be a priority there even the sprinkler system there's some things that you can't have you know safety issue fire safety if whatever is next to the library there's some sense in having that safe so the roof being fixed and having fire safety that covers both makes sense I know that there had been a donation of an HVAC system for the theater I don't know if that's compatible but I know that that's been donated there's things like that that we need to know exactly what can be used but first priority does have to be with addressing the needs of the library and then beyond that if there I know there's been discussion on being flexible to where it can be used and can work together and there's been a lot of talk about compromise and I'm not sure for there sounds like there's still been some difficulty in finding that compromise but first my I'm discouraged with the progress that hasn't been made with the library and that it's been this long I've been one of those volunteering and helping and trying to see that happen I am discouraged that we haven't made the progress that I would hope we could I know that there's a willingness to donate I know part of the obstacles have been that people have been afraid to donate when it's month to month and not knowing if their money is going to really go towards a theater or if something's going to stop so I know even in my context people are excited and anxious to be a part of it but then they're not sure that there's a commitment so I do know there's that challenge but I also think there's been opportunities that have been missed and I think there needs to be I'm not I still want to see a theater so I'm not I'm still like hanging on to that hope that there might be a way to make that happen but I think there will have to be some really serious restructuring to move forward with some some real plans that are viable and how you do that when it's month to month if it's month to month is certainly challenging so my thoughts are yes, it's a daunting task I'm not sure in our financial situation if those funds can be raised but I'm still willing to give it a little more time to have both sides talk and come up with some proposals so that's for now Vice Mayor Johnson Mayor Johnson Chair so we have a $3 million price tag on library and improvement projects what time table and over what period of time are we talking so about a year and a half ago we drew down $500,000 worth of bonds they're unspent we have about three years to expend those you can ask for an extension and then there is a scheduled issuance that could occur next fall or spring so so when do we anticipate the need for this $3 million I guess is really my question it's not going to be tomorrow it's not going to be in three weeks from now we have close to by the end of probably the fiscal year we'll have close to a million dollars so we could carve out something to begin potentially but the determination on when the next issuance will be made has not yet been determined it will be discussing that at the JPA okay I'm not asking when the bonds will be sold when they will become available I'm asking when what is the progression of the need is that $3 million going to be needed you know in a year's time or is this something over a five year or ten year period it will be needed ASAP because we need to start working on that roof okay so have we had any true bonafide estimates from any roofing people other than just what somebody from first of all is a $3 million estimate just from where from David or? David's name with group 4 put that together so do we have any true bids on the roof for anything like that I think that falls on the purview of our public works we don't have any bids at this time okay so when they say that I think it was mentioned that this roof should have been fixed last year or last summer or whatever was this known at the time or was it? okay so that begs the question then why isn't a million dollars available now or at least you know is something planned have we said is it going to take $3 million I've seen $2.3 million for that roof in HBAT is that going to be needed in a year and a half or two because you get the sense that this just has to be done right now and it's going to cost $3 million but these are just estimates so I guess one of the very first things instead of relying on this that's just kind of a you know what some people think I would want to go to a couple of roofing contractors and find out how much does it really cost and what is the HBAT and all this before I all of a sudden close the door on a theater because we're estimating we're deciding tonight on a $3 million price tag when you really don't know if that price tag is true is that what I'm hearing you can't is that what I'm hearing yes that is what you're hearing so before I commit one way or the other or this is not feasible or nobody can do this I have to pay attention to the bottom line and I'm my heart and my mind are two different things I want to know real facts I want to know real costs I want to know what is out there as far as what people can actually do and then I'll consider that but in the meantime I'm inclined I'm not going to give up on dreams that's just where I am and to what people have said there is a great need for a theater here Jim Reid and I were part and parcel with a heavy heavy lifting of making this library of 13,200 feet working with group 4 who we chose out of 30 other architects because we knew they were great we managed it we shepherded it we made sure it worked and I think we did it for the price tag of about 4 million dollars for a 13,000 square foot space now maybe more things have to be done but I'm not giving up on the dream of a theater because I think it would be premature to do so we don't know what's out there in terms of has there been a little bit of fiddling with fundraising well we know from experience that until you actually have something that people can see and dream along with you it's kind of tough to raise money because you know it's like hey this is just a concept and if I give you 100,000 dollars will it really be spent on what the brick and mortar that we really want to see in our community or is it something that will just dissipate and I'll never see our money again so I'm all for being practical I'm all for looking at the needs of the library because again we've lived and breathed the library we've built the best library that we have in the county does it need maintenance? okay let's do that I don't think it needs 3 million dollars in the next 12 months maybe it needs a million dollars we have to find out those facts and so before we move without facts I want to get the information that we can need so we can make an informed decision and I promise you with all the facts we can make the informed decision and then do what's best for the community so I want to thank you guys all for being here everyone's very passionate about these subjects in our community and I know probably just about every person in the audience out there and on these issues like Sylvia, I grew up in an arts family my dad was a music professor and I grew up in a theater world and I would love to see a theater here in Scott's Valley I think it would be wonderful for our community it's a great draw, it has economic benefits all sorts of benefits for our community the challenge I think when I saw the presentation I got a chance to meet with Bill today who is the cost on dealing with a public entity you know I almost feel like you guys have all the pieces to put together your theater but you've chosen the wrong dance partner to do it with and I heard Bill say this in his presentation which is if you had a non-public entity you're working with you could simply go in and start working on a project there and do a pop-up theater and slowly build your audience and all those sort of things that you need the challenge is with a public entity you've got so many requirements you've got to meet and that adds so much cost to the project and when I saw the number of the bottom line on this it was like over 11 million dollars to put in the theater that you guys had proposed my job dropped, that's a lot of money I'm sure yours did too, right and your stomach can all arrest and come up with that kind of money well that same event space would probably cost a lot less in a different building right so and is it achievable? I think it is in our community but this may be the wrong spot for it at least if you're going to try to meet all these requirements unless you have a huge donor and that's kind of been missing right now someone really stepping up at that value so and then I look at the other things come up with what the measure S funds need to be used for and propose to go for the project and so my day job is real estate the number one thing you do at the building is you take the last thing you want is stuff getting wet it ruins your building, it goes away we need to use funds for the roof right away and like I think Donna said we should do them for the whole roof why wouldn't we? that will predict both the library side of the space as well as the theater side of the space as it's set up right now and and then as a council member my concern is with creating something that would, I'm already looking at so our last meeting for those of you that weren't here, we're talking about how bad our budget is as a city and how we're going to struggle to meet costs in the future because of unfunded liabilities the city has and so the last thing we want is another unfunded liability so without a way to see not only for this theater to be built but for it to be covered as an ongoing cost that's a concern we should have as a council, as a steward for our community so I would suggest not to give up on the dream but I think the guilt needs to go back and revise the plan and go is this even the right space for us and if so come back to council with a plan but we might want to also open it up to other groups in the community to present plans for what they could use that space for and see if there is additional ways it could be used with things that wouldn't be a draw down on our general fund so I would be in favor of seeing that and also seeing a new proposal on something that might work maybe it's not the 11.5 million but maybe it's something you guys actually think could be built and that's just those are my thoughts on it that's what I read thank you Mayor quick question on the cost estimates of three million dollars that David gave us, there's David David how you've got some inflation built in that are you assuming that all three million is going to be spent at once or how did you how did you come up with that number yeah why don't you I've got a couple questions for you on that the timing of the dollars for this was based on 2018 dollars we had the estimate done last year and it was based on a midpoint of construction later this year 2019 into 2020 so if we get going on it now there wouldn't be additional escalation if we take another half year another year to it all those numbers should escalate as well I think there was a question about how real are these numbers I think it's also you look at each item for it so when the city built this library we had and you bought the building it had a roof that still had usable life into it and there was a decision to you take it out now or not at that time a consulting building official said oh you need to fully upgrade the roof diaphragm and you should throw away that roof and we were able to determine that was a voluntary opportunity and that because it was already used as a roller rink as an assembly occupancy you weren't triggered at that point to upgrade it and there was a prudent decision to say hey let's get another 10 years of life out of that and not throw that away right then so part of the cost of upgrading the roof is to go and upgrade the roof diaphragm that's going to be applied with other materials that need to be repaired by and there's flashings, roof pads and other pieces to it you want to take care of all your roof construction for your pads for your HVAC and other pieces there you don't want to build a brand new roof and then six months later or a year later we'll put all their HVAC units on it too where you're going to then be creating all these potential problems for the future so coordinating your HVAC and your roof at the same time and at the same point with your gutters there's been some damage that's happened and infiltration has happened so we're going to clean that up so that's where those costs add up to it I think on Councilman Johnson we didn't do design for it it's estimating based on what public construction costs are for this but I think you could start this project right away where you could go and get a structural engineer to make sure that the estimate is looking at the roof repairs that are going to be here a lot of that you won't know exactly the full scope of that until you've got a membrane up so you'll need to have it I think I would like to hope that there might be ways that if it's really just repairs for some of your soft costs I mean you don't need too much design work you don't need an architect to do it but you can get a construction manager there are many good ones in the region who can come and make sure that you get the structural analysis done get appropriate bids for it manage any change orders that may happen as you uncover hidden conditions here and get that work done and ideally build some more money left over on the question of the different prices here so the supplemental cost of 8.5 million or so for the full build out of the theater guilds design that's one that's a big price tag on top of the 3 million we said before but to make just a warehouse space was only 2.5 million so you've got this really big range of spaces here 3 plus and the 2 plus add up to more money than you have here maybe if there's a joint use concept of a flexible space that is usable that is feasible you might build that physically and then you'll have the other issues about the operations to look at after that so back to the first part of the question the 3 million estimate that you've got if we don't start that right now and we were to delay that or only do some of it and then we'll actually stretch out over time that 3 million number goes up and then also in the staff report we had an estimate of 3 to 5% increase in construction costs over the coming year I did some preliminary research and this is not my field this is yours it seems like construction costs on an annual basis the last 10-15 years have gone out the heck of a lot more than 3 to 5% a year is that true? yes they have been averaging more to 5 to 6% a year for many of the past years so how long is it going to keep on running for but they're still going strong okay and so when we talk about 2.5 million for the non-library space just being minimally ready for occupation if we've got 5% increase in costs just doing the math real quick that means if we don't raise or have a plan or if the guild doesn't have a plan to raise $125,000 every single year they're falling farther behind okay thank you so I think those are all the questions I have for you before you leave I think council member Johnson hit it right on the head about the library improvements that we did on that building as I recall and you were the ones who did the estimates on what it would cost your estimate was that it was going to cost $3.997 million to refurbish that library and I think we came under budget by about $312,000 so not only did you absolutely nail it when you did an estimate when we built the library you're also doing more work in Santa Cruz libraries than any other vendor you're one of the leading library architects in the state of California and I think you're doing projects all over the country I think you're fairly well qualified I'm not asking you're a modest guy so I'm not asking you to agree with me I think David Schnee's estimates have proven to be worth their weight goal and so while he's certainly no more fallible than any of the rest of us you spent a lot of time on this number because we were asking you council member Johnson on the subcommittee city manager we spent a couple months saying we've got to figure out when we went into this exercise 10 months ago the thought was a little bit of back history we had a meeting earlier last year where the guild wanted a six month extension on the lease and at that meeting the guild lead best talked about how the estimate of how many performances they were going to have under their model was now up to over 400 a year he specifically said that they did not plan to cooperate with the library or to have shared use that would blow their business model and they wanted us to continue as is and extend the lease council said no and we came back two later and the guild made I think a wise decision to embrace the library the possibility of cooperation having an art center that would be about more than just theater something the library could use and we tried to see if we could cooperate together and find a way to do this jointly it's a little concerning that after almost a year we're still don't have the two sides talking to each other or synced up at the same time I agree with what's been said that's a problem that can be solved that can be solved with communication and time and passion and effort so I'm not concerned about that what I'm concerned about is as the mayor said and everybody agrees you know it's the mind right and so the estimates that you put together here David building envelope upgrade for library 2.3 million FF&E signage and technology 700 million if we're going to do and that includes doing the entire rough for both sides if we were to add in HVAC that's another four to five hundred thousand out of that on top of that three million right we did HVAC on the theater on the non-library portion of the building let's see so in the original three million or 3.3 million the line items were roofing was about a million dollars the HVAC was about 1.2 million these are related pieces in a hundred thousand for exterior wall repair etc and that came up to 2.3 million so did that HVAC include both sides of the building okay good okay so we are talking about if we move forward on everything now so we don't have to battle construction costs we're talking potentially about a delta we might have 700 thousand dollars that we can play with potentially okay alright David thank you thank you very much thanks for coming up I did have a couple more points I just wanted to raise first let me start with what was for me good news last several years I've taken a vacation to go visit my aunt who lives in Colorado little town called Assault not too far outside of Aspen and it's a small town it's pretty prosperous being near Aspen so it's a little atypical I guess in that sense and we want to see a performance while we were there my aunts really into theater and listening to book authors she's a huge she staffs the friends of the library station at the Assault library two days a week and every month I get a box of books that she thinks I would like from the library both say that she picks up for a bucket copy so she she's truly passionate about both when we're out there we want to see a play at facility they have and it's interestingly enough in this little town they have built a town center they have there's a small town existed for a hundred years but just within the last 10-15 years they built a town center that has a whole foods in it it probably has 30,000 square feet of commercial it has two stories of residential above that commercial it probably takes up three or four blocks it's almost an exact replica of what we're trying to do interestingly enough and one of the buildings that they have there is called is there a little theater which they call the temporary so if anybody wants to Google this they'd be interested in what they see but look up the temporary in basalt colorado and it's basically a black box right you walk in and they've got a nice bar that's along the side so you can have you know it's a fairly spartan atmosphere but it's also pretty cool eclectic atmosphere at the same time but they've got a bar so you can have nice events there you can entertain you know people have a good time intermission and they've got a main area with just chairs on the floor and a pretty basic stage where a couple hundred people can watch performance and all along the wall they have advertisements and architectural for what they call the permanent so their old premise is hey this is all we've got now we can only make this work because this is all we can afford but this is the goal this is the dream to what council member Johnson put up there this is what we would like to be able to achieve and who knows how long it's going to take to achieve that I don't know if it's two years I don't know if it's twenty I don't know if it's ever but they've got something that people are committed to and excited about at the same time they've got viable space right now that benefits their community so that to me is the good news and why I'm hopeful that we're still going to be able to find a way to get this done the bad news of course is the numbers just aren't there to make this work and the guild has been doing the Omen service for almost six years now and it's had some great successes at the same time we're nowhere near the money that's needed to be able to make this fly and a lot of us were excited a year ago that we thought there was going to be millions and left over library money and we could take that and marry two together and come up with something wonderful and now we see the amount of the library money that we have is really pretty small not enough to do what we need to do so at the best case scenario and I do believe David's numbers because they've been proven successful in Scotts Valley we've got maybe 25-30% of what we need and based on our recent fundraising history I don't think it's realistic to expect that we have a solution in mind that's going to enable us to close that gap anytime soon it doesn't mean that we should try it doesn't mean the guild should try to collaborate with the library system and we shouldn't try to figure out a way to make this work at the same time I think we've got enough data by now that it's realistic to question whether this is going to happen and so I would propose that we move forward in parallel tracks and that we encourage the guild to continue talking with the library system from my perspective and I'm guessing from everybody's up here any plan that has rate seeding I don't think is going to be viable. It's not going to be viable for the library system so I think you're precluding any ability to leverage those dollars if you say that a rate is just essential for what the guild is trying to do so I would encourage people to look at that option I think we should I don't know if it's month to month I don't know if it's two months, three months basically however long City Manager needs to do an RFP I think we should to Council Member Tim's point go out and say we're still hoping a theater is going to work and we're hoping a theater and the library are going to be able to come up with something to really crush it in that space at the same time we're also looking at other options you know one thing that when we were at the point right when we were engaging with the guild we had outreach from the Children's Discovery Museum and they said we want to move in right away they were extremely interested in that space but we had committed to hopefully having a theater there and giving that a fair shot I have no idea now the Capitola Mall's future is in a completely different place if they might still be interested that there are people worth reaching out to I know there's some folks at the Boys and Girls Club who have an interest potentially in that space so I think we should reach out to them and so Jenny from your perspective I don't know if you want to give an off the top of your head estimate but however long you think it would take to kind of send the clearing call out that we're not walking away from a theater slash library space but we're looking at other options I think I'd be fine renewing the lease for that length of time maybe with another 30 days on top of that but I do think it's important that those two things happen in parallel and then I think the guild should in addition to collaborating with the library and making sure that they really get locked in on what they can do together I think you all you know you got a very detailed presentation from an expert who really knows his stuff and maybe it's going to mean maybe there's some things in there that he missed that he shouldn't have maybe you can help enlighten him and enlighten us so we're not I think that we all agree that was an extremely thorough report but we're not taking it as gospel you need to go back and look at the question of the assumptions in that report and see if it's viable and see what you agree with and what you don't and I think especially if the numbers that he came up with 212 uses per per centium and then a lesser number if it's not a per centium you know does this still work as a long-term model for the guild the premise of course when we started with this is the guild was going to raise the money to outfit it then the guild was going to operate it a buck a year and I know I was one of many people who six, eight times went to the leadership of the guild and said hey can you at the very least let the friends of the library store their books there can you talk with the library about cooperating and letting them share the space there wasn't a lot of interest because they said frankly that their model is based on a very high number of uses and that included charging the library for those uses and so now that we're not pursuing so that's what I heard from Liebes multiple times that's correct so that's also what Liebes said we had a public meeting here last year so I don't know if Liebes still has a leadership position with your group but I'd be happy to pull the audio and play that for anybody who has a question about it so that's great to hear that it's incorrect, right either way we have got to figure out a way to have a plan be available to us and so let's move ahead with an RFP to ask for other uses let's see if the guild can work something out with the library you all need to make real sure that you're comfortable your model still works if you agree with some of his assumptions and his use is being significantly less than what Liebes told me your uses are going to be is this something that still works for you to operate in a bucket here because that's the other component here that we haven't talked about we've got to figure out understandably focused on getting the building built and turning it into something that can be used as a theater but once that happens we don't have the staff to operate it we're not going to be paying public sector unionized workers to operate a theater we don't have that we can't afford basic services today so you all providing that expertise to run this as well as to be able to build it is a huge part of the value bring so I respectfully suggest request that you go back and make sure about those assumptions and I guess that's it so those are the two things that I feel comfortable with I don't know if there's a motion if somebody wants to take a crack at a motion or but again I'd be comfortable with an RFP for other uses I'd be comfortable with a lease extending the lease term to allow us to get responses to that maybe 30 days after those responses and those are the two things that I feel strongly about so I'll stop talking and let others weigh in on the council I guess I'm not trying to understand the idea about the RFP process sounds like we want to use a space for some community good what's going to help our community but I know we have other space that perhaps we haven't really talked about this too much there's other space that we own that perhaps we could use it in a more effective community benefit way such as our community center so in a way I'd kind of like to look at both spaces and not just this space but I know we've perhaps possibly in the theater would be a good fit for the communities I don't know but just sort of so I guess I'd like to look at all of our space and not just the one and I'm not sure what I it sounds like an open-ended RFP bring us your ideas it could be something but we'd have to define that in some way in terms of something that we think is all a good fit for the community as opposed to just intent for the city wants though we just opened it up in the police department we had space to rent and the only criterion there was we want something that's not going to be it's going to be not a track of the wrong kind of tenants in the police station so I bring that up only just to say that was an easy definition to make and this I don't know just it sounds very open to me so I guess I'd want to think more about what we'd be asking folks to bid on what kind of range of places might it be so I would be happy to let the city manager to find that my intent would be to find out what other interest there is because we've got to look at other options we've got a multi-million dollar public asset there I think we all agree we have an obligation to make sure that we're using that asset in a way that provides benefits to the community and the value of the taxpayers so it seems to me if we don't find out what else we could put there whether it's a tenant who just pays rent to help with our general fund whether it's a community use we can't make a decision in a vacuum we need facts in addition to dreams and so we've just got to see what our options are and again Jenny if it's not an RFP if it's something else it doesn't matter to me but we need to find something out it seems to me to the public that says if you would like this space let us know your interest and somehow try to define that or quantify it so we can start to see if we're not able to make something work with the guild and the library what our options are so I think what would help me is to get a little clearer direction there's a couple of ways to do that once the council could have that dialogue here the council could direct the library subcommittee to help develop that RFP and provide guidance that would be assistance so I'm not hearing details so I would either need a subcommittee to provide some guidance or council needs to provide some more specific direction here or I can go and make sense of what I understand right now and bring it back to you we could have another discussion but time is of the essence so I'm not sure how you'd like to proceed I would refer to this but anybody else has another idea and they want to try to find it that's fine to me but if we can't do that right now on the spot you come back with some ideas and we work it out as a subcommittee and proceed from there forgive me mayor I didn't follow your first point are you talking about seeing if the committee center can become a theater I didn't have that in mind I was just thinking about there might be other uses for a community right now I'm certainly want to honor the lease with the folks that we but it just seems like from a total community benefit should that be something we're looking at as well maybe this isn't exactly the right time to do it because we do have tenants but it just strikes me as space that perhaps we could utilize more to benefit the whole community I'm also thinking and we haven't actually don't exactly have a motion on that yet so let me just throw into the mix I'm still interested in answering I think discussed in the staff I think we should talk about how we want to use measure s measure s dollars that are there and then are we willing to assist in the construction of whatever we want to bring into the into the space next to the library do we want to pay for tenant improvements do we want to help somebody with the construction I bring that up only because if it were the theater you know there's still this question of how this is going to get built are we willing, I know we don't have money as we've heard but where is that money going to come from whoever comes in there are we expecting them to come in and say here's our financial plan we have this in the bank we have it all pledges or whatever it is because that's kind of what I'd like to see I don't want to go another six years with whatever might might be proposed so I would think we couldn't make a commitment on doing tenant improvements or anything else we all agree on the rough I think there's all five of us who agree with that I would be fine doing the HVAC at some point but again if we're in a situation where that space is not going to be used for a while it doesn't make sense to put in a brand new HVAC that's not going to be used but I don't think we want to make any commitments about what we're going to do if we can't until we know what the use is and again I think we've got to keep in mind that we're going to be asking the voters potentially in the next 18 months to make some pretty fundamental decisions about what they're willing to fund in terms of city services and I think we want that discussion to be about core services and to an awful lot of folks theaters and libraries are not core police and roads and parks are core I think theaters and libraries are not viewed as much that way so I think we need to be careful about making any commitments for that reason as well I agree with the customer the roof I think we all agree we need to move forward and address as soon as possible I don't think this is the time to look at the community any other facility other than the other part of the library and and I agree that we don't have funds to put into that improvement so whoever steps in if it's not theater has the same challenges that theater has faced and obviously too the community center is generating revenue so we wouldn't want to you know but I don't think that's something should even be in the mix at this point yeah if I could just add I agree with that but I do think so if you're going to be doing the roof we're going to do the whole roof, the whole building I would set it up so you'd have a system that would be easily upgradable go ahead you don't want to have to recut the roof once we install it it's very expensive to do that so you want to go ahead and get the curbs, gutters any penetrations that may have to happen on that side that at least we can foresee now and we can trust our architect or the construction manager whomever we're going to work with to do that to give us some guidance on what would be proper and moving that direction so I want to see that in our initial recommendation so that's ready to go because we are going to be putting in new HVAC at least on one side and you may be able to have enough tonnage in that unit it might be less expensive for us just to get a larger tonnage unit that could be distributed on both sides of the building so that's something we should look at in our process and I would actually want to hear from maybe the library could work with staff to any other things that are in the critical needs list it looks like we have $500,000 that's already been allocated we have another $400,000 that is sitting out there so that money we need to spend it or we're going to have to ask for an extension and the costs are only going to go up so anything that falls into that initial category maybe Director Nimitz could work with Jenny with our city manager and figure that out and then I when the RFP goes could I just ask the city manager what would you need in direction from us right now to rather than have to take it back to committee to be able to put together a good RFP to look at alternate uses for that facility so typically when you do an RFP you're usually focused on a type of use not kind of all cart and so maybe what I'm hearing is we could put together an RFP that asks creative submissions that have flexible uses as it relates to recreation cultural arts maybe school age middle school activities I mean something in that category that would lend itself to be broad enough so that you could have like a children's museum or what not so I just need to hear from the council that is kind of generally a direction that you're comfortable with and if I'm seeing and answer three then I think I've got some marching orders I still would appreciate the guidance from the subcommittee as a sounding board for that and that process will probably take at least you know maybe a good two to three months depending on how quickly we can get that language crafted and out in proposals responded back to the city two to three months from the time you have it finished to have responses back or two to three months to get the to get it out and then to just have things back in and that's a very ambitious timeline because then you also need to review the proposals and develop a criteria and how do you wait them and etc so you need at least 120 days and probably more like six months to really do a good RFP process it could be anywhere between three to six yes I'd say that's good so maybe that's the motion that we give three to six months for that RFP process we give you the direction to together an RFP that has a use that isn't incompatible with existing library use next door and hopefully would be compatible and serve some sort of cultural arts as well as other community benefit and maybe serving children's needs as well so that could be something that would be in that RFP what we'd be looking for generally and then have an extension on the lease term that would run through the end of that RFP process maybe 120 days with up to two 30 day extensions if we're not done with that RFP process and also with a portion of that motion being that we would have measure S funds available to put in a new roof upgrade the HVAC and install curbs gutters and what else might be necessary for the other side of the building and potentially even do a full HVAC system that's not distributed to the other side if we can get that make sense yes we can give that direction and then you'll have another opportunity to further refine that if necessary as part of the capital improvement program and we'll update the existing CIP project that we have in there to reflect that direction that you just gave and then working with the director of the library for any other critical needs yes and Susan can help me shake that was that a motion? I would like to offer that up as a motion and if there's any discussion I'll second that with the quick question with that I like everything Derek said does that give you the ability after you go through and figure out how long this is going to take you can say it's going to be five months you can say it's going to be three you have the flexibility to figure out what that length of time is right? I would like that if it's all right with the maker of the motion I would also recommend that if you're going to do basically a six month lease extension if you want to add two 30 day extensions if you could give the city manager the authority to do that without having to go back to council that would be great so I didn't catch the 120 plus two 30 day extensions okay but before that council member Reed mentioned something else I thought you mentioned something about adding something into the you were just talking about the term yeah I just want to make sure Jenny had flexibility to determine the timeline after she studied this potentially in consultation with the subcommittee okay I would actually like to see if the R&P possibly include market rent or something perhaps your motion because you're talking about something not incompatible but we also talked about the various children's or cultural those kind of things but I'd like to see it broader I'd like to see something perhaps I'd like to see all those things but also like to see a market rent thing so was that intended in your motion? well I think that the RFP process would include what the rental rate is going to be how they propose to occupy the space what sorts of how they're going to cover the cost to occupy the ongoing structure that's what I would expect in a normal RFP process yeah and Jenny would bring that back and work with the subcommittee to finalize that right so it's not being restricted in your mind to those certain kinds of businesses or organizations well I do think it needs to be a compatible use but we might have to find it compatible yeah if I could jump in the mayor read my mind I've been going back and forth mentally about whether we add so let's whether we add renters, businesses so let's say for example we get a business that comes in that says hey that space is going to be perfect for us to do XYZ but we need all that space we can't share anything with the library we can't share anything with anybody but we think we can make a great business by providing that space and here's the lease that we want to sign so I would want to be open to that at the same time the reason I didn't ask questions that was in your motion I'm comfortable with this because I think all of our first choice is to find a public use or quasi public use and so I would be comfortable going ahead now is there a way it just worries I worry if we also are asking for great tenants who just want to we become a landlord to a business if we're opening it up to that are we lessening people's enthusiasm in the interest they might have in coming up with creative public quasi public uses and so the initial thought that I had was that we restricted as Derek defined it very well to something that would be compatible wouldn't have to be private could be public or for it to be wouldn't have to be public could be private could be maximum compatible with the library I think I don't feel strongly mayor so I could be persuaded I thought it might be better to do that now let's see what we can get on space that would be maximum I used it would be maximum compatible and then if we don't care what we like then I think we go out and say okay now we're just exploring being in the landlord business so one of my questions is so we're under the assumption that we need more measure S funds beyond what the needs for the library is that's essentially where we are so why wouldn't we then want to open it up to a wider entities whether it's it could be commercial it could be retail it could be anything because you can't have it both ways you can't say we're not going to spend measure S money on this space yet now we are used at the expense of the city so you know it's got to be it has to be open for that because if in fact you're going to spend measure S funds on this space then that opens it up for you to be eligible for shared space but if you're not going to give measure S and not going to contribute then the city is in no way beholding to the needs of the library so I could go that route again to me councilmember Johnson I thought we would do this in stages we go with a public you know with a quasi public or public compatible entity that would complement the library and then if we didn't get like what we got then we would go out and open the door to commercial but if you wanted to do them together again I don't I can't say I feel terribly strongly we can do it I'm just I guess I just said in the stage for expectations we can do it the way that you want it right now but again we can have it both ways either if in fact there are just terrible fiscal scenarios setting up are we going to close our eyes to potential ways to raise money I don't think so I was just thinking that it's at this point we'll be lucky to have someone that's going to come in and invest and finishing it at the cost it's going to be that they that I would think would be best to see what the interest is because that's a lot to ask and then talk about rental so we want someone to come in and take over that's compatible and take on the expense of completing that construction I think we've got some pretty big hurdles that we've given our city manager that we may want to just start theirs as Council Member Reed said and see what that is and see if that's even feasible and then the next steps if that doesn't happen I think then we'll be left with no other option but looking at being landlord I have two other comments City Manager the bonds or that we have on the library building are those tax example bonds I believe they are because we need to be careful I'm just remembering there's tax law that sets limits on what you can do with sort of private activity and so I'm resting on them but there are some 5-10% limits that basically say you can rate a certain amount a certain amount of rental income but there are limits on that so I want to explore that before we look at doing something with it yes Sarah we will do that we don't want to get the wrong side of tax law I have is I like the idea of the RFP and the discussion we're having but I'm still uncomfortable with extending the lease because I think we're done and I hope I'm along and it's good to have dreams but we've been trying I don't see anything that tells me it's going to be successful so I would rather have a friendly divorce now I'm not hearing that from others but I feel I can't even make that statement as I played out in my mind mayor what would be the advantage of the city if we if we just did a month to month if we're going to go this RFP route we're not going to use that space for anything else there are stages that are being built there now there are other theater companies that are storing their equipment there now so the space right now has some utility sort of for the greater arts community I think so if we just keep that as it is unless there's a benefit well just two thoughts one is I just like to be honest in my thoughts and that's where I am right now and the other thought is that and it's a question really is the stuff being stored there is that going to limit the ability of proposers under an RFP to be able to look I don't think it will I don't think it will and you don't have to take any action on extension you can leave it as is because they are currently month to month and that's fine too so is there any question for city attorney is there there's no change in liability if we just continue month to month versus under state law with a month to month lease all the terms of the lease remain in effect it just means either party can terminate with 30 days notice and then Jenny you have that power to make that decision unilaterally is that right or does it have to come back as a terminator it would need to come back to you to terminate okay so how so the six month lease is inspired where that means we've automatically moved to a month to month situation but that's happened without the council okaying that hasn't it that just is what happens under state law okay so then if we kind of automatically the process has just moved into an automatic month to month without the council taking action to pull the plug you need to take action to actually terminate it so it has to be affirmatively terminated with 30 days notice okay so it can be continued without us but to be terminated we have to take action so Mary are you proposing terminating the lease now or just consider it I wasn't exploring but I I appreciate the fact you're right we really have nothing to lose that I can see and perhaps I'm wrong and theater folks would come up with something during the time it would fit into this and perhaps we have other proposals to compare to or maybe not so I'm okay with that okay so we have a motion in a second I have a question yes so I guess part of my reasoning behind the fact that that this maybe some people feel that this project is on death's door maybe it is but I think the councilmember reads trip to Colorado kind of reinforces the idea that things can be done incrementally things can happen money can appear from different places and so even though I don't know if it's if I would bet a house on it at the same time I think opening it up for possibility thinking there's always something there especially if there's not a downside so I think a six month lease is to me is fine I think that was in your original motion I think plus two 30 day extensions at the city manager's ability to okay perfect 120 days two 30 day extensions on top of that and so again there's a if there's a reason that ties our hands and that's bad for us we should go to a month to month I'm happy to consider that but I just I can't think of what that is offhand so I'm comfortable with with that so the only reason would be if the RFP process was faster than we thought because you would be locked into that for that 120 days we don't even meet on in July I have a question for I'm sorry attorney an access issue and it proposes do we have the right to go in with proposers and look at the location I believe we do if not we could put it in the extension with them Jenny what's your thinking on having the two 30 day extensions after the 120 that's just flexibility in case we need it okay going back to what we said because we've automatically moved to a month right and so wouldn't we automatically move to a month let's say if we did a four month wouldn't we automatically move to a month to month if we didn't take action at the end of the four months yes okay so then maybe we just do that we can do that okay and again you you feel does that that feels like four months feels like the right amount of time for you to I'm always going to negotiate for four for more time but if they the council wants four months the council gets four months again but it's four months but it's four months where if we can't if we need more time we automatically get more time right yes and so there's no way you really don't see how this could be done quicker than four months no okay so it sounds like a four month so is that a change in the motion yeah so that'll be a so amended I have a question for city manager again we have we've given you a lot to work on I see this as as a significant task how does this fit into your schedule we already we're not working on some things that we really some of us would really like to and we've already qualified some of your assignments to say that do it if you can fit it in there this is adding into our limited staff resources so how do you see this pointing out do you have the resources to be able to do this without costing us too much in other places well mayor I appreciate your observation and give me a few days to reflect on that and I will get back to the council if we're going to have some timeline challenges with respect to competing priorities not prepared to answer that right now but I will I will definitely come back and provide you a timeline if we need to make adjustments thank you any other comments questions I have one final one mayor my daughter texted me and she says for for the theater and client among us she wants me to remind people that April 12th through the 28th scott's valley high school drama club is putting on guys and dolls and I wish I had dates where you can come out and see my daughter play nicely nicely but I don't have those yet so it's just somewhere between April 12th and 28th up at the high school like I said it seems to be the topic any other comments seeing none all in favor of the motion say aye aye motion passed unanimously I want to thank you the subcommittee for all your work I know you put a lot of effort into this I want to thank everyone here for participating and I know we're not going to make everybody happy but we're trying to get there and so thank you for working with us including all your energy thank you no darshan thank you no thank you no let's take a two minute break there you go most of it is done what's that alright where are you from right here I'm going to the bathroom and you I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I 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