 Thank you so much for joining us on a brand new episode of 420 Grams and if faces look a little haggard then it's because we're shooting this pretty early in the morning and Haggard 1, Haggard 2 but the coach of course is there who's looking as fresh as ever and you can make out by looking at him that his day started pretty early in the morning much earlier than we thought and the reason we're of course here today is Siddhanthani my name is Arjun and we're joined by Richard Hood who is currently head coach of Bengaluru United right Richard yeah how's it going man what's happening very decent we just have a preseason starting on the 5th of August we had a month's worth of training and then now I'm with the AIFF working on their coach education side as well some in Bombay doing the A license for them. So then we have a direct line now if we guys want licenses we can just call up Richard and say which look no but Richard of course the reason we've connected is because we wanted to talk about development of Indian football man right now there's no game around it so we thought you can delve into these stories and all and none more so than what's happening at the ground level right that being the baby leagues which you've been a massive part of you continue to be a part of and the age group I League teams so the baby league in particular how did you guys you know come to such a plan and where does it stand right now as you're talking. Baby leagues pretty much we start to delve into the history of player development in many of these countries I think India had a very Eurocentric approach where we thought the Astroturf darling and if you get these license coaches and things but if you start to look at the upbringing of players like Luis Suarez, Sergio Aguero, Diego Gaudí and I mean the South American stuff one due to the social economic similarities that he's got the fact that they play on much which is the fact that they don't have Nike footballs all the time the fact that they're there's I mean home conditions as bad off as us we found that they're just playing over like 60 70 matches for you from the ages of 5 6 and 7 happy the leagues and things usually starts at 10 also it's a very informal league though of them and it's a letter and they call it a tournament they call it a league and that's all the football we played so I mean just the fact that nobody spoke about the we underwent excellent coaching or this curriculum was there or these coaches that come from Europe and taught us how to play and stuff if you read their autobiography they're just talking about this baby football over the FUT DOL there's a short documentary in FIFA as well so it led to a two-month exploration but as in finding out what exactly it was a thousand of these kids just engaging every weekend playing with aggression from the ages of 5 6 they're getting stuck in in tackles and what not so we found a very organic engagement platform where you aren't really getting hell bent on licensing I guess of the company that we have and I mean it holds a myth engaging it aggressive you've got the entire country's football culture being expressed in how they play we figured that maybe this is the easiest and best way to attract the kids because whether it's more in your team or Ferguson team or Pochettino team and God you love team nobody comes there to watch the training session so your first point of engagement to connect with the game is the fact that you've actually played it yourself something like cricket over the cricket be killed there are no way you'll play a batsman versus bowler and two fielders as a similar culture you have with football in all these South American countries two players plus two players plus one ball gives you a game in India it'll give you a drill so we have a heavily coaching culture out here and there's not so much of a game culture so if you're falling behind the 50 games every season from the age of 5 by the age of 10 you're falling behind by 250 games by the age of 15 by 500 games to the average kid being developed in these countries you're talking about these 20-minute games or you know 15-minute halves of course depending on what your age is yeah 40-minute games 60-minute games at the age of 5 6 7 and on at the age of yeah some age of 7 definitely one or not bad yeah shish your physiological development I mean this is a game something this is a reality check firstly this is been a massive reality check because sir you played at the age of 5 to 10 how many 60-minute games you've played sir we used to play predominantly on ice hockey rinks every neighborhood had an ice hockey rink which was essentially a gravel surface in the winter it would be ice so you could skate on it and play hockey but it had small goals it was about the size of a six-a-side pitch but we were much smaller so we would play 8 9 10 the fact that you mentioned ice hockey now there's something known as a birth there's the proximity to a sporting facility where you're born has a direct correlation to the game competency the expertise that you acquire just by engaging so you have something known as the pond hockey in our Canada where it's informal hockey I mean ponds and things like every winter they just go and play five six seven markets per day that is the Canadian ice hockey culture that is there and then you find this exact engagement in urban parts of New York as well with the basketball where there's a court half court you've got matches happening so I mean we get to help them turn it my ground on a key it my referee on a kid but count but even with informal engagement with purpose so whether you play for four hours per day there's no failure which makes it need to be there then you won't develop those competencies that we get to see but these games in Argentina these games in your way these kids are stuck and I'm a little bit of passion because I feel that they're my brother and if I pick him in my team and I won't do it I won't pick him but look by your dhoti what do you think about it in all these feet environment that we see that developing these players for sure so I guess what do you say like for me when I started playing the sport because I ended up in a international environment where the only way you could engage with kids international this is where in Russia Russia so there's and there's so in our school we had a lot of kids from Nigeria in our neighborhood there were Russian kids like Korean Japanese and everyone the only sport the Japanese guys played baseball but what everyone else played was football so that's how you start playing and it became highly competitive because everyone had their own way of playing and at first when I started like no one wanted to pick the Indian kids right because like you're the Indian kid obviously you don't have to get too much into it so you are out to prove a point yeah and that's how it becomes separate Richard just so I get the whole gist of it that you know you build competition IQ competition time match fitness from a very early age right and you understand your way around that ground how to move what to do from that age on currently how many years in are we into the baby leagues in India and where do things stand right now in terms of teams players areas you're hitting I think we're just about two years in and we have people who overlooking the project in the air but from now that I've gone on the outside and things I mean the main aim of the baby league was to clock in on the productive numbers which is number of games per season and the duration of the season there's a lot of tournaments in India you wrap up within two or three weeks and talking about major state league tournaments as well and you have a lot of these I mean the meaningful numbers that matter if kids overseas are talking in let's say 40 to 50 matches per season then gets really really difficult to get anything I mean come anywhere close to that they really on the numbers that we're acting up here so if you're talking about where it stands right now the baby league I think if in some parts of the country is happening well as in some leagues are they're delivering 30 games which is still way off the international benchmark 30 is insane man 30 for India is damn nice yeah no but it's damn nice but people don't look at the compounded effect if our kid in Japan is getting 50 matches in Japan they get close to 100 because they don't have a season in Japan it's 52 weeks of football every year. So that's a reality of Japan and so if from the age of 5 you're falling behind by 20 games per year by a 10th birthday or by 100 games per year and this baby league thing I mean it could be called X, Y, Z in Japan it could be called something else in the Netherlands it could be called something else in the African nation but the fact that kids go from Monday to Friday preparing for Saturday they have a social life they have a life away from football and things they're not talking about a very thing but in the 7th that is the life I still chase that life you know but then up my five or five pitches and then there is just a play playstation again this lifestyle these kids have got I mean what happens here when these residential academies or whatever the academy system is then you go neck deep into it from nothing you come into this lifestyle where you're training two times a day one it's not really shocking a psychological thing but it's a great article about two years back in Guardian where they said that the Spanish kids with street smartness they learn to learn the referees first name so referees become a bit more wonderful to you when you refer to my first name and they keep track of the guy who's got a yellow card in the protest even more when he does the next foul they're talking about 5, 6, 7 year old kids their technique is of peak but over and above that they've learned it's a yellow card to get him to trouble so he gets sent off and things street smartness and stuff like that the game intelligence and things of delaying the walking on to the pitch and things of the opposition gets a bit under I mean like if they happen on the street it's cool but like it's a bit hard to go so far as to say you should start but that is just showing you the level of preparation man of a player who's coming out from 5 to 15 football every weekend they're seeing what the players are doing yeah so Richard where exactly it's also really cut through right like I mean the success rate is what it is so for kids that's trying to get out of whatever situation or make it or whatever it is they're going to try to get as much as the masters also like your Catalonia district alone the Catalonia 7 million population they're more than three and a half thousand youth clubs and one club means under 6 under 7 under 8 under 9 under 10 under 12 under 4 13 14 15 every single age band and they have A, B and C also in those age groups go to the Catalonia football website you go and click on the under 10 league 16 groups in 16 groups in a group in Catalonia district alone then go to Madrid district and then go look at that now in India 100 registered academies 100 all over the country but look at the accreditation but 1.3 billion close to 100 accredited academies are there whereas if you look at the 7 million population clocking in 4 digits in terms of registered clubs and academies who are playing every weekend 40 games per year only in that system then you have the Catalonia league which is separate then you have the weekend leagues only then you have summer league winter league they are easily 50-60 years old and then there are divisions in that under 16th of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th divisions we have you have multi-age group organization that is there that's what gives you that one player every year that news cycle who has come through for the Spanish under 17 team he has gone through that entire regime and partner stuff from the age of 5 and out of thousands you get that one kid the due diligence that is required to clutch this amount of engagement and things what forms the national team what wins you the world cup, what qualifies you for the world cup Man that just tells you how far behind we are this is like a, I mean we thought this would be a positive chat you are sort of depressing right now I think reality is there we are not criticizing us, we have a lot nothing else to do for sure but we should be chasing these numbers instead of 11-5 pitches all over the place and things and if we get 40-30 places but now don't put a turf in there, don't put floodlights just install one goalpost in there and get kids to come in and engage and things and that's what's happening in all these schemes I mean Favela, Vavela, we keep on studying in Brazil and stuff what's their engagement model? it's a neighborhood club versus a neighborhood club I found it pretty much the same here the only thing is that it takes some amount of organizational I don't know, resources, money I guess to organize this stuff and if that money can come, I mean from all over the place that we've been they've been local tournaments I mean local tournaments but money is the task of a problem I just want to look at how Iran is organizing if you think Japan is spending a lot of money on development they're not 80% of the kids play on mud such as our the grounds of the neighborhood I'm not talking about big money but just like basic stuff like you need let's say I need that, it can be also crowdfunded which most of these guys end up doing but then what that means is that if you're bringing lights for example because it's difficult to play in a day then people have to work people have to go to work and all they have to show up to watch the games also so you're playing at night you need to get lights yes, kids scene is different I'm saying that there are a lot of local clubs that exist and I don't know maybe they don't fall under the purview of any sort of system of accreditation and therefore there's no contact between it's something like the Northeast clubs and things they have the least number of stuff and things they have the least number of qualified coaches but they're supplying us with more than 60-70% of our talent pool either of Manipuri-Lelo go look at these junior India national teams and things, the roster now if we keep saying that these development initiatives are crucial development in the absence of cultures is not going to give you anything that educating 25,000 coaches it's fine you add turf in every corner but if the culture of genuine your purposeful engagement is not there then you're not going to get any of this development that's what we value but where is cricket going? as in the best players are now coming from tier 2 cities and things that's because the engagement one is there's no inhibition, you can make your mistakes there's no coach over there telling you I never want to see you do a Bakhi Lever you think of yourself as Ronaldo you think of yourself as Messi that's a very poor example but we have come to a stage where coaches are trying to prove how much they know and we are beating the talent out of the kids now there is enough examples he talks about coaching three times a week but then playing for hours on end with his friends and enjoying the baby football aspect of his upbringing that's all he remembers the fact that his uncle was his first coach Messi's first coach was his dad Ronaldinho's first coach was his elder brother Sir, but where does culture come from? Sir, culture come on that's a very distant thing very distant like you saw Kerala or the northeast or so many parts I mean parts yeah yeah but it's a big country man like we are saying like 1.3 billion or whatever everyone doesn't have to do the same thing I agree and over time I'm sure it will spread like you look at now at the women's league there was a small team from Baruda that had come they had won their state championship to qualify for the for the main women's league young girls I think a lot of them not yet in college or maybe the eldest ones would be in college so it is spreading definitely like social media spreading you are looking at at the post level yeah what you are talking about India has to catch up on the global front at any given point of time we are very driven by the what's it called a very highlight driven country many people still say Jackson Singh's goal he scored in the world cup that's the highlight of Indian football then where did he go? he will play that I mean he is still 19-20 but I am saying did we win that game no the equalizer came from the kickoff that means he scored the goal the equalizer from the kickoff I think they got the need from the kickoff we couldn't hold on to that goal different for even 2 minutes after we scored it not even 2 so that's exposure so you look at all these aspects you look at all the stats the deep stats we held Korea in the semi-finals many people were happy that they were attracted to Korea to find that one desperate goal but then you can see 23 attempts at goal and you have one to claim for yourself now these stats when our goal line is very close many times our goalkeeper is the man of the match which tells you a lot if your goalkeeper after you lose you are given a performance of that standard it tells you where exactly you stand let's say a single digit attacking third entry and this starts from the U-16, U-19, U-23 and it manifests itself at the senior level I think a few months back I have done a lot of things I have taken the stats of the Japanese team, Australian team Saudi team, Iran team the South Korean team and the Indian team so I have looked at things of shot attempt shot conceded final third entry this thread is there common between 15, 17, 19, 23 and senior team so if our junior team only has 35-40% possession senior team is the same if the Japanese junior team is keeping possession for 55-60% of the game they are doing it at the senior level also so this thread we tend to look at the goal line but where are these competencies going to develop the goal line should be to keep the style you have to play football but it has to be seen at the U-15 level senior level takes 10 years so what you see today is what you are going to get 10 years later so if we are seeing that we have defended with heavy numbers against the South Korean team 10 years later we won't have an alternate tactic to cope with Korea's technical and tactical progress there are no tools and this whole game coping skills and stuff neurologically the windows shut by the ages of 12, 13, 14 after that so Richard I get your point man and you know it starts from very early age and it continues there is a pattern that sort of continues so clearly the bulk of the work needs to be done right at the beginning so that there is a culture created and it carries on it carries on so in terms of which is the state which is giving you the maximum number of games and you know so on and also age group I-League man age group I-League if you look at it from qualifiers right to the finals if you reach the finals you are still getting 12 to 15 I think you were there last year for the award ceremony when it was called AFP best Sunday team coach if you have seen the charts in the end you announced it but what did it say that the 10 matches if you are a national champion if 10 matches is what it takes for you to win the national championship then you have to really wonder because this is a state national championship and the countries which are so small even the Maharashtra in terms of size they have regional leagues they have no national leagues you have a Baslona league you have a Madrid league you have a Valencia league so the reality is that Real Madrid under 17 Baslona under 17 week and week out they are getting two home away there are 600 odd clubs within Catalonia itself only at the U23D team which tells you that the level of competition within Catalonia is good enough if you are doing a national level you are travelling from you have your local qualifier you will get a lot of matches where regionally the case is so small there are 40 matches it is a basic thing in a lot of the Indian football conversations we have been having we come to this point that basically the policy the top down policy the requirement there is that there should be a national league right? I am talking about India whatever for whatever these guys the guys who are running it running the AFF here for them they are conducting a national league across age groups and that is a sort of metric of development or progress or whatever it is your approach is interesting because you are doing the work from the ground up that is what the policy is that is coming down and essentially the need is sorry the policy the only make sense is let us say that next year's cutoff is 2003 this year I will play a 2003 tournament locally i.e Bombay league if I know the next year's league is 2003 cutoff for the national level so 1 year minus to start to play a 40 match league in Bombay the top 4 qualifier for the national league then this year you have 2004 playing to qualify for next year's national league the age category so local eating the national level that's when it will make complete sense to have 10 matches to play where year 1 you play 40 matches locally and year 2 you play 40 plus 10 matches national league I will tell you something man though you are talking about Bombay and I am not surprised why these places have a better sports culture than places where we are staying right now which is Delhi there used to be a locality league every locality used to have a bandra league it used to have a bandra A team B team under 15 team and these leagues would go on for 5 months and you are playing on the weekend and you are playing in a proper culture sir you are playing in the river that is the scene it is raining, it is snowing and people are playing football and there is a rainy part you prepare for that rainy part of the season and then you prepare for the end of the season and the rains have gone and it is beautiful man and people come on Saturday and Sunday and you know that is the way forward if this culture dies somebody has to sustain this now the Bombay league whatever you are talking about might be a 4 month phenomenon what do we do to make it a 6 month phenomenon what do we do to make it a 8 month phenomenon and it is not about money it is a question of willingness and engaging in community and giving them credit whatever happens because in terms of the finance power political influence they are not important but they will work day and night for you to make this happen yeah if you think Japan the national effort is spending any money I mean there is a lot of ASF that happens for the local level as in they are planning this and I think that let it be but then start to create a local environment that complements that that is very cost consuming what do we do what is happening who is going to come and interfere and I will get you to stop it what is stopping you from getting the game league in Delhi it is Richard who said hi to uncle behind you just taking this conversation again towards the end now man what is the way forward man I mean I am sure you have done a lot of research in all how many players do you think we are going to generate given where we are right now have you have you guys worked on a number that so many players are coming out and has there been a 2 years 2 years is too early to decide what is the product of baby league but I am just saying is there a number or something that we are working on we are talented the numbers are great there are 2,000 people in Bandra who will go so I am saying racking up numbers in India is no issue whether by engagement or anything filling up a stadium the world cup that came most attended under 17 world cup you know what the previous record was what was it in 1984 China's U-17 world cup basically anyone who has got a passion for staying in the bedroom that country is we will be up there by default but the other factor you don't count is China was largely an agrarian society back then they didn't have these big cities like Beijing, Shanghai there was no social media factor and telecasting was limited so the previous record was that and look at the 17 world cup prior to that in the U-way, in Chile where people don't even come they will fill up so the fact that we racked up the numbers also is heavily if you ask me where do we stand how many players will you rack up and stuff so this is not about producing play for ISL, IDK are we producing players for that so that's a very low bench globally if Iran is exporting players Japan is exporting players I may not be able to explain Richard just finally at the top of the show we said you're head coaching Bengaluru United can you tell us a bit about that team and what's the difference been like from someone who's been involved so much in grass root to now being the head coach have you had to change a lot of things in how you approach the game or teach the game I'll answer with what I understood you're asking me this is between your coaching and Bengaluru United where are they playing what are they doing so they are in the super division if you do well in the top three we have a chance to play pretty much work our way up the ladder and do as well as we can I think in 2017 I started the process of preparing myself as a head coach I had gone across to Portugal to learn a bit about the senior side of coaching high performance coaching and things and now it's the right time to getting the resume out there and letting clubs know so I think a good thorough process of about seven months to take the role and then maybe I could do just with the responsibility and now looking ahead I mean we've got a lot of good promising players and hopefully I'll publish a reputation over here now as an Indian coach who can do well as a head coach not bad man not bad sounds good we are sitting here in the studio talking about you talking about you going on to settle down on tile and things we had mentioned that with you as well thanks man thanks so much for your time man and I am going to continuously be calling you now for our shows on 420gms because you validate us sir we keep saying whatever comes to mind there's someone working there and you've got a great tan going so it's a it's here black and white we only get these beautiful golden men on our shows it's awesome so Richard Hurt thank you so much for your time this was another episode of this video thanks for watching see you next time