 Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad that you have found your way here, whether this is your first time with us or you've been with us before, thrilled to have you back. Today we have with us in the hot seat, like Julie and I like to call it the hot seat, but it's really not that scary. I'm going to go off below has joined us. She is Director of New Client Experience and Technical Services at Chazen and Company. You know, Michelle, we've had a couple of different representatives on from Chazen and Company. Excited to have you here with us to talk to us about getting it right, talking about board orientation. So stay with us. Michelle's also going to tell us a little bit about what this title means for Chazen and Company. So we are thrilled to have you here. Julia Patrick is here as well, CEO of the American Numb Profit Academy. And I'm Jarrett Ransom, your nonprofit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. 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So without further ado, Michelle, I would love to hear more about you, but let me remind all of our viewers and listeners who they're about to hear from. So Michelle Filot has joined us, Director, New Client Experience, as well as Technical Services at Chasen & Company. Now tell us what exactly does this title mean? Thank you, Jared. And I'm excited to be here and be a part of the nonprofit show. But yeah, so New Client Experience is sort of all-encompassing for our onboarding process. When we have new clients join Chasen & Company, we wanna spend a little more time upfront learning about what they do and their goals and objectives and how we can enhance their internal staff and what we will be doing to work with them. So that's sort of onboarding any systems that we're gonna help put in place. That all happens while they're with my team. You know, I've gotta believe that's a pretty heavy lift, Michelle, because what you're all doing is somewhat new to the sector. I mean, moving everybody into this more digital format and remote working and leadership and all that, it's probably somewhat of a newer path, like say within the last five years, right? It is and it can be a little daunting to some of our clients because they've been used to their paper process and having someone in the office and we do work remotely. And what we do as part of our onboarding process is really meet with the client regularly and get to know the team, make sure that we're providing feedback that's needed as we guide them through that process that can be a little bit uncomfortable in the beginning. Well, we're thrilled to have you here and I think the link between what you do with your new clients and what nonprofits should be doing with their new board members is really gonna be a symbiotic conversation. So we're talking about onboarding board members. It's a big topic. Jared and I, we have this woven through so many of our conversations, but as we were saying in the green room, we've never done an episode in three plus years now about this specifically. So start us off, you talk about having strong foundations and objectives. How does this play into things? Sure. So one of the things we wanna do is have an orientation process for our new board members. We don't wanna just hand them a book and say, bring this to your next meeting read it before you come. We wanna have a process. We wanna have goals and objectives for what we want them to learn during that process and really put together well thought out materials, not just our board policy, which I'm hoping we all have written board policies, but we should have our bylaws, our mission statement, our strategic plan. That's a key tool for board members. We should have our most recent financial statements again and key for our board members to understand as well as any marketing materials that we're distributing to our donors or through our programs. So that our board members have that pre-packet to really see the full picture of what this organization is, what they do and then what the board's role in helping them accomplish these goals and objectives. This is fantastic. When we think about 1.8 million non-profits in the US, if we were to, I don't know, just imagine on average, on average that they each have seven board members, right? Some are gonna have fewer than that. Some are gonna have so many more than that. This is a really big process. So having that strong foundation of objectives, you might've seen me, Michelle, I clapped when you said strategic plan because that to me is like chef's kiss, right? Like it absolutely needs to be there. There's three documents that I always say you want to make sure you get. And that's the DNO policy, the strategic plan, right? And then that expectation. What do you expect from that board member? So I love that you mentioned the strategic plan as well. And I really think, putting all of this together, I'm curious, you mentioned a book. Are we doing this book digitally now? Is that the process? Well, that would be my preference is that we have PDF versions of these documents and a packet and a drive on our shared, whether it's Google Drive, SharePoint, whatever drive we're using, it may be a Strapbox, but let's have shared documents that are living, breathing documents and living, breathing folders for our new board members to go in and really prepare themselves for this orientation. Some of my clients put together videos that they use in marketing that they also shared with their board members so they can really see the team in action. I love that so very much. Yeah. And I love that you can change them. So like we have the shared drive, right? The latest impact report was just released. Let's upload that now into the shared drive. So the board members have access to it and can share it with their contact. So it just really makes a seamless process is what I'm hearing. Julia, do you find that this happens? No, no, I don't. And it's super frustrating. You know how I'm always on the like bandwagon of you need to have a board liaison. Yeah, it's one of my big things. And you need to have a digital board portal. So in essence that shared drive or whatever, I love that you added the marketing pieces because that's something that we don't see enough of getting that everything from like the press releases to brochures, if you're doing digital, radio, broadcast media, all of that should be conveyed. And it's not. It is just not. So yeah, good job. Well, this is, we need to have you on more because you've like drank our Kool-Aid. You must have been sipping out of Julia's talk. Talk to us about the, you know, designing and engaging this orientation experience. You've given us some examples of what needs to be in who owns this process of designing and engaging the orientation experience for the new board members. Well, it can be a key member of the team internally. Like you mentioned that board liaison, but it's often another board member. It's a key board member. It's perhaps your board chair, but it can be a key board member who's introducing new board members to what the current board is doing and designing those goals and objectives and really making it a dialogue, not just here I am telling you about these things, but I've given you these materials in advance. Now let's talk through what you read, what you saw and your ideas because everybody's going to bring new experience to the table and new types of experience. So how can we utilize that? I also think these new board members should be key members of the team to really begin developing a relationship and understanding who they're guiding and who as a board they're leading. Do you see the peer to peer as the mentor process? I hear that, I don't know. I was gonna say, I hear it often. I hear that it wants to be implemented, but it doesn't really take off into a successful nature. Michelle, are you seeing like this mentor process happening in part of the orientation experience? I think it should. I think particularly if you have a new incoming chair, the outgoing chair should help with the orientation. If you have a new treasurer, that new treasurer needs to understand what their role is and what their role in the whole process for internal controls will be. Yeah. I think that's a really important argument for having defined next bench leadership, right? So that you know who the oncoming or incoming board chair, committee men, all of those positions are gonna be so that there is like a chain of command, but there's more a chain of disclosure, right? So that everybody kind of knows what's going on so that day one, when they take that new position, they're ready to go as opposed to waiting for six to 12 months to figure things out. I mean, it's time wasted as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, really, really important. One of the things that Jared and I talk about in terms of how shocking, literally shocking it is that most board members get all excited about the prestige or that they were asked to do something on a board. And then they find out that there's governance, that there's legal issues, that there are roles, that there are responsibilities. Talk to us about that because I feel that we have a huge miscommunication on this between our organizations and our boards. I think it's so important because it is very much an honor to serve on a board, but we all need to understand what we're getting ourselves into as board members, not just treasurer, but all board members have a fiduciary responsibility for the organization. They need to know their legal obligations when they're making decisions. If they don't know the bylaws and don't follow process or vote correctly on a decision and follow the standard decision-making process, they can find themselves in trouble. So there is an ethical responsibility to the organization that we need our new board members to understand. So maybe not just ask our friend to be on the board, but really seek out what we need to replace and what skills that we need to replace on the board. Yeah. You mentioned earlier board policies and I'm very familiar, there's some annual policies that need to be signed, some documents that board members need to make sure they're dotting eyes, crossing T's right on an annual basis. If this gets skipped, it's like, really puts the organization in hot water. So I'm really curious from both of you honestly, like why does it seem that board members don't really fully understand that fiduciary oversight and that responsibility? Where do you think we're missing the mark when it comes to the orientation experience? So from my perspective, we always look for written policies. I think that's key because it's documented. It's not just being passed on verbally from one member to the next, but you're correct. There should be a conflict of interest policy that board members actually sign and then disclose any potential conflicts of interest. There should be a risk assessment annually and last year's risk assessment should be available to our new board members so that they understand what those critical weaknesses are within our organization and how we're addressing those. I love that input. I really do. I love that you said too, that there should be not only all the policies, the strategic plan, but also the financials. Yeah. And I can think of the number of boards I've been on and I have never been offered the financials upfront before I came on. I think that's crucial for a board member to know what they're getting into. Is this organization having some cash struggles or do they understand their cash flow and their burn rate? What are they monitoring? And I think seeing those financial statements is the only way that a new board member would really be able to familiarize themselves with what's going on within the organization. Yeah. You know, one thing I'm hearing, Michelle, and I'm just curious for, you know, we mentioned 1.8 million nonprofits in the U.S. However, more are started at daily, weekly, monthly, right? What's the thought for these newer organizations that are a little bit hesitant and they're like, we don't wanna share this. Like this is really privy information. Should we have an NDA and non-disclosure agreement signed annually for our board members or is that just part of an understanding? Because again, I'm really taking the side of a new organization that might not have that comfort muscle built to say our financials. I think you certainly could have a written NDA, particularly Celebrity Foundations. We see that a lot. We wanna make sure that we're not talking about who gave what type thing, but that should also be an understanding. And no, we shouldn't hide our financials from our new board members because they are tasked with governing the organization and developing a strategic plan and they really do need to know what they're getting into and what they're working with. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, I think that, you know, there's a lot of NDA type of issue. So depending on if you're an organization that has to deal with anything with health, you know, you have HIPAA regulations. If you're dealing with minors that's, you know, under the age of 21, children under the age of 18, there are a whole bunch of layers that our board members need to understand and will have a legal tie to depending on what the service area is. But I also think that there is that concept of who's giving what, how are they giving it, especially when we look at, you know, larger estate kind of planning, you know, multi-generational planning. Those things can be very tricky and our board members will be talking about it or at least the development teams will be reporting in and they need to know what's appropriate and what's not. So to me, Jarrett, that should be in the policies in terms of board roles and responsibilities. I mean, it could be a simple paragraph that is put in there so that it is reviewed annually. So people are like, hey, it's not just for the new folks, but every year in December, not January, get all this done before the new year starts. I feel like that should be revisited. I really, really do. So, you know, that's my two cents because I just feel like that ball gets dropped big time. I really, really do. Well, let's move on to something and this is what got the big hand clap from Jarrett. And that is strategic planning and leadership. Talk to us about that and how this would come about in a board orientation piece of it. Well, your new board members need to know the current strategic plan. It's also important that during that orientation process, they understand the short-term goals and the long-term goals and what the board is doing to help guide the organization in the right direction. It's even budgeting for that strategic plan and the board should take a critical role in that as well. So let me throw a curve ball. You know, it is playoff season, so I gotta weave in. Yet again, another baseball issue here, but what if a new board member comes on and they're like, oh yeah, I read the strategic plan and I don't agree with it? How do you address that? Do you say, okay, well then when we go to redo the strategic plan, that's when you can voice your opinion or how do you navigate that new board member that comes in and they're all excited and they wanna make change, right? I think first they need to, we need to back up and talk about how we got where we are with the strategic plan and that's why that orientation does need to be an open dialogue. And they may have some valid ideas that we need to consider and that may be going back as a board and discussing those things, but talk about how we got where we are, what the team is doing. They also may need to understand those financials or that budget to know we do have some limitations on what we can do in the short term versus long term. But definitely, I think that's why we say, have it a working dialogue for that orientation, not just a monologue, one-way discussion. And I love the strategic plan so much, Michelle, because as a new board member, I really coach to say, understand, and I love that you said, understand how we got to where we are, where are we going? And then I really coach for the individual who wants to serve on a board to read the plan and say, okay, of this plan, where can I serve as a champion, right? What can I do to help forward this momentum, what connections, what skillset? Where can I best use my time and my expertise? So that's why I just, I love it so very much. Like, please absolutely include this. And you're right, to Julia's question, let's understand how we got there and then welcome their input as it's related to the short-term, long-term goals for that. And really seeing that as part of the leadership conversation, hopefully that's happening at every board meeting. And I think it's interesting, Michelle, that you talked about the budget, because that to me is a fascinating link that a lot of times we lose. You know, we look at the strategic plans as these like grant things and these roadmaps and everything, but then we don't discuss the funding of it. Could you talk a little bit about that? Yes, as a board, we can't just come up with these grand ideas. We have to determine how to pay for it. What do we need development to do? What do we need for accounting to do? And then how does that impact program? And what's our timing of it? Does it take six months to get this grant? Does the funding window not open until next year? So really understanding the budget and what's behind it. And again, it's setting those short-term and long-term objectives, but the budget monitoring, that's up to our board to really lead us in the right direction. So then let me ask you another question. I feel like when you look at board members, I mean, they're generally leaders of a community, they're high functioning, have strong egos. I find that a lot of board members are afraid to ask about the financial issues. I mean, we know in the nonprofit sector, accounting is a little different, the vocabulary is a little different, right? And I mean, the principles are the same. We all look at gap and we look at the structure. But how do you navigate that board member that might just be brilliant? And one thing that your board needs, but not so strong on the financial part, how do we get that piece in this onboarding? Or should we worry about it at that point? I do think it's important for our board members to see those financial statements and meet the finance director and work with the treasurer on understanding the financial statements. Often our board is not seeing the detail, right? They're seeing a higher level of financial picture than what we have behind the scenes. But we set up for our clients dashboards within the system that we have a board dashboard where board members can log in and see financial reports and certain key metrics that they would like to have on their dashboard. And really explaining those to our board members and what they mean and what our goal for that metric is. Wow. Okay. I think that's really important. One thing that I see, and this is across all age demographics, Michelle, is the resistance to log into a portal or the drive. It's like the board members want it to be emailed to them as opposed to going into the portal or the drive to find said document. How do you take the orientation process into that day-to-day experience for a board member? Can you talk to that? It might be a curveball, but I'm just curious. It's a good question. It's a weird question. Yeah, no, it's a great question. But I think really navigating them through what we have when we set up dashboards for board members, they're often just excited because the information is at their fingertips and they aren't having to wait until two days before the board meeting to see the financials for that quarter, they can log in at any point during the month or during the quarter and see where the metrics are and have the ability to ask questions because again, they have a fiduciary responsibility. And so it's important that we have those things available to our board members, but particularly our treasurer. And our treasurer should know the makeup of our board and really work to make sure the information being presented is understandable and make sense. Yeah, and usually there's a finance committee and I always say, and maybe this isn't etiquette for everyone, but I always say, if you're interested in learning more about the financials or maybe that's not your strong suit, join the conversations at the finance committee. To me, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be an active committee member. It's just really taking what I'm gonna call like tutoring time, right? You just, you show up for the conversations, you listen, you're privy to a little bit deeper conversation level to start to understand what's happening at the board meetings and how they got there. Because I've said this before numerous times, accounting, bookkeeping, financing, it's not my strongest muscle. So I've really had to train myself, Michelle, into knowing how to read the documents, but then also how to apply them right into the conversations and into the impact for the organization. So I don't know if the two of you have seen that, but I would love to just recommend for those of you that are listening, watching and listening and say, I'm with Jared, I'm not in this ballpark of, I love numbers. Just trust your gut, do more digging into those committee meetings. Yeah, I think it's important. I really, really do. And I think you can say, do it, you may not love numbers, but you love this organization. Yeah. It's due to that. Yeah, you have to do this. We don't have a lot of time left, but I'm really interested in asking you this one final question. And that is, we've talked about onboarding new board members. And there's a way to think about this. They're new to board service, right? Or they're just new to your organization. I'm wondering if this would ever be a good idea for a review for existing board members because things change and we're moving through to the digital age of nonprofit management. How do we look at this or should we just really be focusing in on those new folks coming in? From my perspective, as a board, you should have an annual retreat and walk through these things and any new ideas or new dashboards or new reports that your team has decided might be more important or more impactful for the board, but also take that annual time to look at your audit report, look at your internal controls, your policy manuals, how recently have those been updated? And now we've learned we can do that via Zoom. So we don't all have to take a week off of work and travel someplace. We can have some Zoom meetings, but really dig into what's there and then are these goals and objectives we set be met or are we falling short? And if so, what are our critical risks and identify those and determine a path to lead the team to overcome them? Yeah, I love it. I think this, yeah, this has been great. You know, Michelle, we could be, I could talk to you for so much more on this topic because it's just to me and I know Jared and I, we've talked about this. This is the critical piece that's missing. And when our boards aren't strong with leadership and understanding what they can do and how they can do it, it just makes achieving mission vision and value so hard. So Michelle Fiello, director and new client experience and technical services at Chasen & Company. Hey, we've been at the American Nonprofit Academy a part of a really exciting program with Chasen & Company called Counting on Chasen. We have several dozen videos that we've done. They are free. You do not have to be a client of Chasen & Company. They go through all things in a very conversational way about how the nonprofit sector should be thinking about accounting and finance. Michelle, you've been on a couple of those episodes with me and they're really fun. They're really great. They take you through higher level things, lower level, but if you visit Chasen & Company, for those of you listening, C-H-A-Z-I-N-A-N-D company.com and you will find Counting on Chasen the series there. Michelle, this has been a lot of fun. We're gonna have to continue this conversation because I think this is an ever-evolving issue with our boards and how we train them. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, been joined by my nonprofit nerd, but she can be your nonprofit nerd too, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Of course, we have amazing partners that join us day in and day out. They include Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit nerd in nonprofit tech talk. Whew, that's a mouthful, isn't it, Jared? I know, that's why I got caught off guard when I was like, wait, are we doing TED Talks now for the nonprofit sector? Which, I mean, we absolutely should, but Michelle, I feel like this was a TED Talk. I loved what you're bringing to the conversation. I feel like this really should be another back to basics, getting down to, this is a foundational best practice for all organizations, but the three of us know it gets missed and overlooked quite often. So, so glad to have you joining us today. Thanks to all of you that joined us to start your week here at the nonprofit show. Thrilled to have you here. And as we end every episode, as we have for over 900 episodes now, we invite you, we encourage you, and we remind you to please stay well, so you can do well. Thank you so much, Michelle.