 Hello and welcome to this British Library food season event sponsored by KitchenAid. I'm Polly Russell, the season's founder and curator and I am thrilled to be here in London today at the beautiful KitchenAid Experience Store for one of three events with contemporary chefs cooking and conversing with the living food legends who have inspired them. Today we are honoured to welcome Elizabeth Luard and Olya Hercules. Elizabeth is a food writer who has lived and worked in Spain, Italy, France and Latin America. She's written more than 20 cookery books including Flavours van de Lucia and European peasant cookery, which are as much recipe books as they are explorations of culture, folklore and history. Besides cookery writing, Elizabeth has written two novels, four memoirs and has been writing a cookery column for the oldie magazine for 16 years. A talented artist, Elizabeth's writing is often accompanied by her evocative illustrations. Given her expansive and generous approach to understanding food, it's no surprise perhaps that Elizabeth is the chair of the Oxford Symposium of Food and Cookery, an organisation dedicated to expanding the culinary conversation. Elizabeth won the 2016 Guild of Food Writers Lifetime Achievement Award, is most definitely a legend and it is wonderful to have her here today with Olya Hercules. Olya was born in the Ukraine and lived in Cyprus before moving to the UK to study English, Italian and Russian. After working for a time as a reporter for Screen International, her interest in food led her to retrain as a chef. Following training, she worked as a chef to party in restaurants including Otolengi before landing a book deal for Mamushka, a cookery book that celebrates her family's recipes from Ukraine and Moldova to Azerbaijan. Her most recent book, Summer Kitchen, came out last year. Now in a moment I'll hand over to Elizabeth and Olya, but I'd like to mention the other legends in this series. Claudia Rodin with Ita Marshrilovic and Sirit Packer and Jill Norman in conversation with Rosie Sykes. Now finally, if you would like to support the work of the British Library, you'll find a donate button on your screen. There's also a feedback button and we're always very keen to hear from you. Please do join us for other British Library food season events. To find out more, visit the food season page on the website. On this page you'll also find details of the food season competition we're running, which gives you a chance to win a wonderful range of kitchen-aid cordless appliances, a place on a virtual cooking course and a signed copy of Callum Franklin's terrific book, The Pie Room. So finally, thank you to Elizabeth and Olya. We'll be posting their recipes on the website and thank you also to KitchenAid for hosting. Over to you. Thank you. I can't even describe how elated I feel to be here with you for so many reasons. I'm going to start making these dumplings and then we're just going to chat through. Remember the first time that we met which was... Yeah, yeah, Belly Malew. I can't remember what the date was, it was maybe five years ago? Something like that. Yeah, I still remember. Well, shamefully I didn't really know your work for some obscure reason, but I saw the description of your talk and I remember going into that church, it was a beautiful little church, I think, or a chapel, and I just sat there and you spoke and I remember I was writing my second cookbook at the moment at that time and I was going through this really weird writer's block. I was really lost with it all. I don't know why, I can't remember, it was a difficult period. And your words, you just spoke with such clarity, I think about the sun and its connection to vegetables and I don't know, you just inspired me so much, you completely unblocked me. After that I just went back home and I finished the book and it felt so natural and effortless. And of course, you know, I found you that evening and well, I feel like we've become friends. We're really good friends and actually I knew your work because you were writing about very close to the area that interests me, which is about landscape and people and why people do what they do and that pretty much we're dictated in our traditions by where we live. And we can't, even though we can now import masses of things, we don't really move out of it. So what you have there is, it's a dumpling recipe for a wedding and I filmed it very close to where you come from. West of Ukraine? Yeah, doing good. I think it was probably 1991-92 on the Ukrainian border and there were Ruthenians there who were maruned in Slovakia after the curtain came down after the second world war. I saw that episode and it's absolutely incredible. It was a wonderful thing to do and it was really lucky because the wedding was going on anyway. So it wasn't set up or anything. They just said, oh, do you want to come to a wedding? And because I use a sketchbook and a paint box, I tend to be welcome. It's a little tiny sketchbook. It's a nice breaker, isn't it? So people can see what I'm doing and what they are and become much more welcoming than they probably are with a camera. So the wedding, the poppy seed dumplings, they're just interesting because they're made for weddings. They're sweet. They've got sugar and the poppy seeds which are used in huge quantities in Eastern Europe. And they're not little tiny bits like that. A little sprickly. A little tiny pinch. No, not at all. You can see them in markets in the autumn. You know, great big piles of them laid out. Small mountains, yes. And they're high protein, I think. They're oily as well, so they give you everything you need. And when I lived in Wales, I used to gather the Welsh poppies which are yellow. I used to gather the poppy seeds from there. What's that process like? Is it quite... Just shake it out. Really? Yes. Oh, I need to try that. You've probably got poppies in your garden, haven't you? I do, actually, yes. Olya came to my flat in London when I moved from Wales and she arrived with a big basket that you collected in your garden. The allotment. The allotment. And it was kind of late in the season, so everything was quite overgrown, wasn't it? Yes. Including pennyroyal. Yes. Which is... It's used a lot in Spain, but usually with snails. Yes. So I don't know why it is. I think it's mildly, it's digestive, it's probably kills little bits that you might not want in there and things like that. And I used to collect snails. So all my work, in a way, is very much like yours and I can understand why it appealed to you. Because we're talking very much the same language. And your new book, which is completely summer kitchens, where you're talking about the northern version of what was going on in my life in Andalusia. Right. Yes, so many similarities. Yes, a lot of similarities. So, I mean, we all learn from each other. I'm going to watch you. Look at that. So it still looks a little bit rough, but we're going to leave it. Some people are so scared of dough, but just leave it for a bit, it will relax. And then when I need it again, it will just be smooth, smooth, smooth as if by magic. But let's go back to your travelling, to that trip, please, and many other trips, because that is an extraordinary series. Can you tell me how it all came about? I didn't think anybody would publish a book called European peasant cookery, but I wanted to call it European peasant cookery because that was what it was. Because the word peasant in the UK has a sort of, you know, you don't want to be that. But throughout most of Europe, everybody, you know, it's a thing that you're proud of being. And I came to it because when I lived in Andalusia with my children, they all went to school on donkey back, and they learned, I mean, there was still threshing wheat, growing wheat, threshing wheat with a donkey. And my son went to the local school, which was all ages in the same building, and he came back and I said, what have you been doing today? And he said, well, I'm not going to tell you, a sort of seven-year-olds, eight-year-olds do. Then after a bit he said, OK, I'll tell you. This is what we did. We set traps for rabbits in the lettuce patch, and then we caught a rabbit, and we skinned the rabbit, and we made a stew with the rabbit. So I thought, OK, you know, the sort of childhood that you're getting is something that's going to disappear because actually it's incredibly hard work, you know, the sort of self-sufficient way of life in a valley in Andalusia, which I had to learn all sorts of things. You know, they said you're throwing rubbish, you know, you're throwing kitchen stuff away. You shouldn't be doing that. You should keep a pig. So I said, OK, you know, if you tell me how to do this thing, and if you come and help me, a pig is killed at one-year-old, as you know, because it must be in your area as well. Yes. Did you get a pig? Yeah, sure. Yeah, we call it piggy. And it was really quite... I mean, in a way, it was traumatic because we weren't used to it, but I kept rabbits. So, you know, the idea that meat is something that somebody else isn't responsible for was really very keenly felt in the area. Women were responsible for anything smaller than a goose. So you had to kill a goose if you bought one at Christmas, and you had to be taught by the baker's wife, who sold you the goose how to do it. She said, I'll do it once, and then, you know, you've got to know how to do it. That was a sort of... I mean, it was a kind of knowledge of country how to behave properly in the world, and that you plant chickpeas, and that you harvest them, and that you plant garlic under the lemon tree because that will keep the black fly, all that kind of information, and how to deal with a pig. You know, I can deal with a whole pig sometimes. And so, that was the basis. So I said, OK, I want to do European peasant cookery. This is what I want to call it. And I must have done quite a good proposal because I got enough to do the travelling. Have you been writing already, or were you still an illustrator? Yes, I had. I had a... I was a natural history artist, and I sort of added the writing to the fact that I could read a landscape. So I had a column in the field, which was, well, rabbits and things, not actually pigs, but plenty of wild stuff, which suited me. And so I'd already maybe done a couple of years of that. And then, do you want to write a book? Yes, I want to write a book. This is what I want to call it. And then I had the gaps. I mean, I was OK in the UK. I was OK in Spain. Good understanding around the Mediterranean, but I didn't have Eastern Europe and I didn't have Scandinavia. So I went to the Oxford Symposium on food and cookery in, say, 1983, something like that. And found people who said, oh yes, we understand what you're talking about. You know, come to Norway and I'll tell you, I'll send you to see my daughter who lives up above the Arctic Circle. You don't need a lot of information. You just need somebody and then they pass you on to somebody else. So I did that in Eastern Europe, but I didn't get as far as Slovakia. I stayed within the Ottoman Empire because I understood that, because it comes out of Turkey. So I did a long trip round Eastern Europe looking in people's gardens, going to markets, using my sketchbook to ask people what they were putting in things. Was it nutmeg? OK, I can draw a nutmeg. How do you do it? So just quickly, very quickly, mention what we've been doing here because we can get carried away so easily. So I've got some curd cheese, which of course you can buy it, but you can also just strain some yoghurt. Or in my case, I've just strained some kefir, actually overnight in the muslin, and that works really well. And we've got some poppy seeds, I've got some nutmeg, some salt and one egg. And this is our filling. And the dough, here's the one that I made earlier, we've got some eggs, some water and some flour, that's it. It's just very simple. No machinery required. And of course it's so much nicer to roll everything out by hand as well. But if somebody wants to use a pasta machine, I always say it's not a problem at all. We won't judge you, but this is a really nice, very relaxing thing to do, I find. Yes, and it's also something that people do at a wedding situation. Everybody will come and help. So younger folk can see what the older folk are doing. So there's a transfer of information when it's not a catered thing. It's where we were filming and I collected this recipe. It was in a separate house, which was kept for weddings or events that the village wanted to celebrate, possibly even funerals, I don't know. It was just a general meeting house. And there was a kitchen and there were maybe about 20 women in there. And they were all doing exactly the same thing and all talking to each other and exchanging news. Isn't it amazing? Yeah, it was great. Yeah, in my part of Ukraine we do that when we make a wedding bread called korobai. And tradition kind of says that it should be seven women and one of them, the leader, it's preferable that she's married and maybe with kids as well. So obviously you're just putting all of these positive vibes basically into your dough and passing all of that on to the bride, which is a really nice thing, I think. Would you like to do some shaping as well? I want to see what you do. So how was it travelling in Eastern Europe at that point in time as well? That was straight after the Berlin Wall came down. No, it was before the Wall came down. And it was quite difficult actually because you find yourself quite often in places where you've been followed by police cars and Romania particularly. But on the other hand, because food is sort of a universal thing, I think I need the long... Is there another one? Oh, wow, look at that. I don't know where I got that. I bring stuff back from wherever I am. I love yours, that's a really nice little thing. Thank you, I think it's an Italian one, a pasta one. And how did you find fixes there? How did you find people who found you people at that point? I had a link in every place I went to. So in Bucharest, I had a link with American Spy for no good reason. And she was called Kiki, Kiki Mochis. So I think she sent me to the places that she thought I would need to go to. And once that was done, I mean, I knew she was a spy, I don't suppose I'm really able to do that, but I wouldn't have cared. And up in the Cafethians, sometimes there's an exchange if you want something from people. And it could just be a sketch. I mean, I've been invited to weddings. Bring your sketchbook and you can come. That's amazing. So that sort of worked. And these dumplings are from the Cropethians or quite. These are from, well, Slovakia in the High Tatras. Right, yeah. Bears and Wolves, that kind of thing. But I didn't get there until I was filming. I didn't get there for the European Person Cookery. Okay. And did you witness the women making them? Yeah, I did. And we filmed them. So I had to get the recipe. Yours is much bigger than mine. It's smaller piece. Or did you give me the same size? Maybe I'm rolling it up a little bit thinner. Is this too thin? No, it's perfect. Well, this is the first time that I make these. But if they are kind of similar, so would you call them peroshki in your recipes? Is that what they were called? But they're boiled and not baked. They're boiled but not baked. That's interesting. Yeah. I had a cutter somewhere. And I think the egg holds it together, you see. So that matters. Okay, I'm not going to watch you. So this is our filling. Look how fluffy and gorgeous it is. Now if you're going to bake it. Yes. It'll be as thick as that. If you're going to boil it, you can do it a bit thinner. Shall I do it thinner? Yes. Yes, ma'am. I will definitely do it thinner. And just boiled and salted water, yeah? Yeah. Just wait till they're bob to the top, like ordinary dumplings. And of course these are sweet. And you know, I'm used to the idea of a sweet dumpling. We filled them with sour cherries and apricots. And you name it. And also served with butter and sugar. But maybe for our audience. That's an unusual thing. So when would they be served? Are they served as a dessert? Now let me think. I think they are. Yes, I think it was at the end. At the end of the meal. So they serve the same purpose as a wedding cake. Right. Amazing. And the fact they've got seeds in them is an indication that you should get on and procreate. Yes. Of course. Really important. So, so before the Berlin Wall came down, you're all over in Romania, in Ukraine, in Hungary. And what were people like? You know, what did they think of this of this adventurer? I didn't know. From England. I didn't know. I wasn't really thinking about that. I mean, I can go into a market and people, the children will come and watch what I'm doing. Drawing, presumably. Yes. I can take that out and show you what it looks like. So basically what we do is we're just going to cut it, roll it out into a bit of a sausage, and then cut pieces, and then we're going to roll each one into a, you know, rough circle, right? Yeah. Okay, sorry. Keep telling me about your, about your travel, about your adventures. So market drawing. So market, go to a market, find the market where, because I've done my homework where the traditional midday meal is set out. It'll be beans, potatoes, veg. Right. Maybe a bit of meat, that kind of thing. Yeah. And then go and take out my sketchbook and the kids come round and they talk to me, whether I can talk to them back. Yeah. I've got Spanish and French, pretty bad German, and one of those will do, and if it doesn't, and I want to know if it's honey in something, I'll just go, and it's not as difficult as you might think if you don't mind being an idiot, which is all fine. Do you want another nice little sausage? Yeah. It's good. Are you going to do, are you going to do some as well? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I think you're my granny now. Yes. We're swapping rolls. Yeah. So markets, what were markets, what were the markets like? There were wonderful markets in, what was then Yugoslavia. Right. And it, while we were travelling, because I had my husband Nicholas with me, it changed throughout Yugoslavia and you could see that people were not doing the same thing with a cabbage and a bag of flour as they would have been doing in another part. So when I'd finished it, I had somebody, a native of wherever I was researching, telling me whether I'd made any enormous mistakes. I'd just send off the text. And in Yugoslavia, I had a problem because I couldn't say there was a Yugoslavian way of cooking. Right. There was a Bosnian. There was a Kosovo. Of course. It had divided into the seven groups it now is in. I think it's in seven groups. So it was perfectly obvious that people were saying who they are by the way they were cooking. And I think that remains true. You like doing that because that's what you're used to. And that works for you. So if I was in your kitchen because you'd invited me, then I would be watching what you were doing and go home and write it all down, including the jokes that you made. Your mother's Christian name. And all the rest of the stuff that you pick up as you're travelling. And you've completely managed to avoid the dreadful Soviet style canteens? No, I did canteens as well. Did you? How was that experience? A lot of pink sausage and stuff. Yeah, dreadful. And in Romania, the official market was full of pink stuff. And not many cabbages because they were sending those to Russia and they were rather cross about that. But round the back streets people were unloading stuff out of the back of cars and things. So you could tell what the preoccupation was, what people really wanted to eat. And that becomes pretty obvious. And the other trick, of course, is you go into a supermarket and you go and look and see what's in the frozen food section or in the cans. Because that's what people really, that's their everyday, what they like to eat. So it kind of tells you lots of information. Would you like to do one? Yeah, thank you. Okay, here's some spoons here. So does this look right, the consistency? Probably is a little bit thicker with the cheese that you would have encountered in Hungary. Looks pretty good. Yeah, it's good. Okay, so I've just got this really uneven circle. Let's just make it a little bit neater. Bring a little bit of water to fix it? No, this dough is actually very soft because I eyeballed it. It should be a little bit, it just sticks. You don't need anything. Do that finger thing when you clip it together with your finger. It's just very easy. Look, it just sticks together because I've made quite a wet dough. Sorry. But here we are. But they will be very nice to eat because the softer the dough, the nicer they are when you boil them. Beautiful. So what I'm doing is just making a crescent, right? Yeah. And then... And you've done a little patterned one, haven't you? Yeah, and I wanted to show you how to do this action. So you just grab it by the edge and then... Oh, I've got cream on my fingers, which would not be a good thing. Okay. And then, so the first one, we just grab this corner and basically you just want each corner to go alongside where the filling ends and kind of the empty dough begins. So I'm just kind of like sending it over my thumb. Okay. And kind of using my finger to push it down. Okay. Just like this. So you're just making a twist, basically. You're just twisting it. Yeah, you're doing it. It's a bit bigger than yours. Maybe my fingers are a bit bigger. You're tiny now. Well, you know, when I teach dumpling making, I always say, look, even the simplest technique, where you think that they will all look the same, they don't. They look so different, because of course we're all individual. And people will know who's done what, won't they? Exactly. I love it. It looks gorgeous. Probably better be here. Just keep it there. Keep your dumpling there. Perfect. I'll give you another one. Do you want to do it again? Yeah, why not? I'll give you another one, isn't it? It's just such a lovely thing to do. As you say, you know, people do it together. I'll give you this one. I'll give you some flour. I'll give you some flour. Yeah. And this we can do for hours. We can just stand here discussing where we've been and what we've done. Exactly. And you did all the, you went back home, didn't you, to do the summer kitchens? So for summer kitchens, yes. And you know, like you also travelled around the country. You know what? I must kind of adopt your technique, your watercolour technique. That is such a lovely way to make friends. Are you doing it now? No. I am drawing a lot at home, but I haven't done it. You know, obviously I haven't been able to travel yet. But yeah, we did about 10,000 kilometres all over Ukraine and went into people's summer kitchens. Yeah. What time of year are you there? Mainly spring, summer and just the beginning of autumn. So the season, when the summer kitchens obviously are used. Because it's not just summer food, is it? It's preparing food for winter. Well, exactly, yes. And have you encountered that during your travels? Yes. Have you seen them? The main preoccupation in when the weather's good is to stock it up for when it's not. Yeah. Particularly in the north, because the growing season is so short. I don't know what it is in Ukraine, but certainly there's nothing much coming up in gardens in Britain until about May, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess similar in Ukraine as well. May will get our first kind of like fresh-bored juice. Do people go home at Easter to plant potatoes? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's such a thing. It's a practical as well as, a nice little round. Oh, that's perfect. Look at you. Okay. I know. Brilliant. It's very good. But you can stuff them more than I do. I don't risk as much stuffing as you do. Yeah, yeah. That's a skill, isn't it? Yeah, well, I don't know if it's always the good thing, because they do unravel if you overstuff them, but I'm so greedy. I just want all the filling. Yeah, and it's so much nicer, isn't it? So the wedding where, so you went to the wedding where juice was served. Yes, yes, always through. And there was lots of play-acting. Right. Yeah, tell me about that. That's interesting. Do you have play-acting in... So we have this really interesting thing where there's, well, the wedding is two days. Yeah. And the second day, all of the men wear women's clothing. Oh yes, no, there was that. We call it the gypsy wedding. And it's wonderful. It's really funny. I mean, the men just get really drunk and run around in skirts. Women's clothing, I know. It's a bit like sort of... Yeah. I really wanted to do that, but also... But that was disguise that men came in in women's clothing for the bridegroom to choose which was his bride, and then the bride came in eventually. Is that where that comes from? I didn't know. That's so fascinating. But they're fun, aren't they? Well, you are. The weddings. And they're also shoeing the bride? Very odd. Do you know that one? Yeah, shoeing the bride. Do you want to tell... So she doesn't run around and... Yeah, that's... Get up to stuff behind the cow shed. That's really crazy. Yeah, I think people are stopping to do this now, but... What other food were they serving? There would have been chicken, because there always is. Yeah. And there were noodles, too. So just cut noodles. So the same paste. And the weddings happen in the spring because then you've got food. Yeah. You've got the first curd from the cow. Yeah. And you didn't have it in before then. So it has to be May, something like that. Yeah. That's the reason for May weddings. And no greenery for some reason. No... That maintains, I mean, till quite recently, all over. No green stuff. No vegetables. Really? It's no vegetables. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I don't know. Green has a sort of funny connotation, doesn't it? No, I didn't know that. That's really interesting. So it's... I think it goes back to pagan times. It does. So people have these ideas about what's right and what's wrong. Yeah. And you can see when somebody looks at what you're doing and they think, ah, she comes from somewhere else. I was in Greece with a whole American group of people, you know, chefs and food writers and things like that, about 80 of us. And we were in Thessalonica on that peninsula. And we were being shown, first of all, how to build a bread oven, how to bake bread in the bread oven. Right. And then how to fry vegetables over jeans. Yeah. And somebody hadn't turned up. So there was a vacant stall. You know, there were about half a dozen women. And then there was this vacant stall. Any volunteers? Yes, yes, yes, I say. Yes, yes, yes. And so I went forward and started frying the aubergine slices, dipping them in flour, dipping them in... Actually, they did flour and then water rather than I'd have done egg and then... Anyway. And they all stopped and looked to me and started laughing. And I said, why are you laughing? And they said, because you're frying like a Spaniard. Which, of course, I was. And I have no idea, you know, why... Because I'd copied exactly what my companions had been doing. Yeah. But they still knew that I was frying like a Spaniard. That's so fascinating. The slate of hand is very much personal and to somewhere. So what you're doing now is what you're used to. And you're a bit uncomfortable if I've moved you out of it into another one, aren't you? Yeah. So the water is on, slightly salted. We need to melt some butter. And of course, you know, back at home in Ukraine as well, when my grandma would make very similar dumplings, you know, you'd have something that we called krynicka, which means a little well. But essentially it was almost like half a pack of butter. Yeah. The more butter the better. So we're going to bathe our dumplings and butter as well. And I am going to do half a pack. Why not? I'm just going to switch it on. And then of course, we're going to sprinkle some sugar on them. And you know what? Now I use a little bit of maple syrup. I know that this is not traditional. But we don't have any today. But at home, if people don't want to use sugar, because sugar is the enemy now. So just a little bit of honey or maple or something like that. Honey would be good. And honey must have preceded it. That must have been what was used before. Originally before sugar, before fine sugar. Yeah, exactly. And also I think that the mixture with the poppy seeds, that is kind of dusting. Yeah. Rather than a syrupy sweetening. Yeah. So the water is boiling and I'm just going to pop them in. And because the filling is pretty much cooked, we're just waiting for the pasta to cook, which is going to take two minutes, two to three minutes until they pop on top, as you just said. Here you are. Okay, so put them in. Does that work? The butter is nice and melted. I'm just going to switch it off. Yeah, that should work. The dumplings are in. It's actually such a nice dough, because it sticks to itself, doesn't it? It does. No, exactly. So I'm just going to give it a swirl so they don't stick to the bottom of the pan. And maybe just increase the temperature a little bit just so they cook quickly. And then we'll just take them out, pour some butter over them, a little bit of extra poppy seed. And the extra dough you would roll out, cut into little shapes, probably diamond squares. And then I'm sure you, again, because it's a pasta dough. And then you'd have another dish with that. And that would be served with a sink. Exactly. So these are called vareniki, where I come from in the south of Ukraine. And my grandma would call these off-cuts vareniki, which means the little bits. Yeah, the little bits. So these were literally two minutes away. Got some butter. I can't wait to taste these. Lesbeth, I've never tried these before with poppy seeds. So this is all very, very exciting. Have you ever boiled? Have you or not? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we do them exactly in the same way, but we don't use poppy seeds. So I'm really excited about the addition of poppy seeds. It will be beautiful. It's a fertility symbol. There we are. Gorgeous. Tell me about your paintings. I don't know where we are. Have you still got some from that period, from when you travelled around? Yes, I keep masses of them. This is... Let's see. Oh, I know where it is. It's at Abergavenny, so it's quite close to home. And this is what I use. You've seen me use that before, haven't you? Yes, I have. They're absolutely gorgeous, Lesbeth. It's such a lovely way to kind of break the ice and start a conversation, aren't they? Gorgeous. I love these breads. It's sort of... It's a friendly medium. It's not like a camera, as I say. Yes. People come and watch. Actually, when paint goes on paper, it's really shiny. So you can take advantage of that. It's like a cartoon. The children will come and watch and then their parents will come. And then they will tell the other recipes and the stories. And then you get a story. It was fantastic. Amazing. I have such a pleasure to hear about all of these. I almost feel... I wish that I... Even though I lived there at the time, I wish that I could have seen everything that my grandmother used to do and my mom used to do with the eyes that I have now. Haven't been taken out of Ukraine. You just appreciate all of those little details so much more. I wish that I asked my grandma so many more questions. I think the fact that you watched her when you were little, did you? I did. But just impatiently, just waiting to be fed. So I don't think if those little bits kind of went in as much as they would have done now. But of course, she passed away when I was 12. So yeah, I really regret not asking more questions for sure. So you're telling me all of these stories. I don't know, it's bringing her back to life a little bit. I think as well. So it's really nice. Thank you. These are done. So I'm just going to take them out and we're going to address them with our gorgeous melted butter and poppy seeds. You could drop them in a chicken broth, you know? But actually these are sweet anyway. Yeah, but the filling isn't. So probably not traditional, but you could serve them with some crispy onions or something as a savory thing. It doesn't have to be. It's quite a versatile filling, I find. And the dough, of course, is just gorgeous. These are going to be so silky to eat. The dough is just the one that you get all over Europe. Yeah. You know, it's either made with water on its own or a proportion of egg or all egg. And this is virtually all egg. And sometimes just with yolks. Yeah, look at that. Ha ha ha! I'm not putting as much as my grandmother. OK, and then this a little bit of sugar. A bit of nutmeg. Or did we put the nutmeg in the stuffing? Can't remember. I put a little bit in the stuffing, but there's no harm. Shall I do a little bit? Yeah. Just a little flourish of nutmeg and just a little bit of sugar. But of course, as I say, you can use honey and that will be really nice as well. Just a tiny little sprinkling here. Traditional Hungarian poppy seed dumplings. Voila, they smell amazing. Thank you. Oh, thank you so much, Elizabeth. It was such a pleasure. I loved making these with you. And thank you for sharing your story. And I've learned how to do the edge now. Well, you have, but you already knew how to do that. Thank you very much, Olli. I'm lovely to see you anyway. Thank you.