 All right. Welcome to the February 10th TSC call. As you are probably all aware, there are two things that you must abide by on this call. The first one is the anti-trust policy notice that is displayed currently on the screen. And the second one is our code of conduct, which is linked in the agenda. It basically says don't be a jerk. I do see that we have some guests on the call today. So welcome to everyone who has joined. You're all welcome to participate in this call. So we will jump straight to our announcements. So the first announcement is one that we see every week here. The Dev Weekly developer newsletter goes out each Friday. And if you are interested in including anything in that newsletter that goes out to hundreds of developers, please leave a comment on the Wiki page that is linked in the agenda. The second thing we've seen for the last couple of weeks is the call for mentors and projects for the 2022 mentorship program. So if you have a particular project proposal that you would like to have considered, please add that before March 9th. And the next one that we have, Jim, thank you so much for creating the issue that we had talked about in our last meeting for capturing kind of the discussion that we've been having on the project health and the project reports. So if you haven't had a chance to review that issue yet, please go ahead and do that. Add any additional thoughts or comments that you might have. Jim would like to try and do this mostly offline so that we don't have to get together in meetings, but obviously if that's not going to work, we will have to get a task force together to sync up on how we move forward with the project reports and reporting on project health. The next announcement here is that David sent us out an email on the TSE list letting us know that the project and lab services document that we had reviewed in past meetings is now currently live. And if you are interested in using any of the services, please reach out to David or the contact mail that's listed on the page. And then the last announcement that I added just this morning. I'm going to let Daniela talk to her. Thank you, Tracy. I am very pleased to announce that part Montgomery, who many of you have worked with for the last six, seven years, some of you seven years has agreed to become our hyper ledger foundation chief technology officer. For those of you who've worked with heart before, you know how instrumental and how helpful he's been in our community. And especially in the technical steering committee. I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to announce him yesterday. He already spoke at an event last yesterday at Dev Week. So we wanted to take advantage of that and tell the greater open source developer community that the hyper ledger foundation has new leadership from a technical perspective. So heart, I'll let you go ahead and say a few words and kind of maybe share with the rest of the TSE. I know you've spoken to many of them. I'm just going to talk a little bit about what you would like to do. And more importantly, what the next steps are, as of today, you're still a Fujitsu employee and participating as a Fujitsu employee and contributor. So over to you, heart. And once again, a big welcome to heart. I am delighted beyond belief that heart has joined our Linux foundation staff and look forward to great things from him. Well, thank you to Daniela first for the very kind words. I've enjoyed, you know, working with you and really, I think a lot of people on this call over the years and I'm excited to have the opportunity to do that more in the future. And to help move hyper ledger forward. So as such, I will be officially resigning from the TSE after this week because I cannot be on staff. And on the TSE at the same time, I will also be turning over my leadership positions in various projects. And we have, we have already planned those. So I'm optimistic that those will go smoothly. And yes, so I'll be officially starting next week. And I'm looking forward to contributing in a new role. And thank you, everyone. Great. Thanks, Daniela. Thanks heart. Congratulations heart on becoming the first CTO for hyper ledger foundation. We look forward to working with you and seeing how we can improve as we move forward. All right. Any other announcements that anybody has before we move on in the agenda. Yes, Daniela. I just want to reiterate the call for mentorship program and really ask everybody on the TSE and others that are here today to please reach out to others in your project communities and ask them to take a look at the mentorship program. It is a really a great opportunity to get a new contributors and developers into our community, but be things that you want to get done within your projects or your labs. So please, if you haven't yet take the time, please reach out to any of us on staff. If you want to talk about what, what does it mean? What does it mean to be a mentor because it's really important for us to get some great contributors as part of that process. Thank you. Yep. Thanks Daniela. Hi, I just have a question. There seems to be when I was talking about the mentorship program and the call for community projects, a little bit more on both of those. Is there a differentiation between the two? Bobby are you talking about the hyperliger challenge? Yeah, the challenge. I mean, it's kind of along the same lines as, you know, you're out in your time to mentor people. So I was like wondering if there was something different about them that, you know, you can talk to their differences. There is something, you know, what's unfortunate is the timing because I think the timing of it of one thing right before the other is been the most complete, confusing. And I'll let David Boswell speak to that. But the hyperliger challenge is a community led event. It is not hyperliger foundation sponsored event. It is the community has gotten together. And this was through the leadership of the hyperledger India regional chapter and the hyperledger's social impact SIG, and I know some of the other leaders in our community have been working for that challenge. So that challenge is a complete community developed event and initiative. And we think it's fantastic. It's really driven a lot of interest. So thank you to those on the phone here that have done that. The hyperledger mentorship program is something that happens every year. It is funded. So these mentees do get a lot of support from the community. So I think it's a great opportunity to have a stipend, I guess, you know, an internship fee of up to $6,000. And Bobby, I know that you participated last year and you had some of the mentees and you were a mentor. And so it's a really different project. And David, I know that you've been addressing this with the community the same question. So I'll let you add anything that you need to add. But broadly speaking, I'm really excited to see that there's more opportunities to mentor people. I mean, I think the annual mentorship program that hyperledger runs is great. But I think a best practice in open source is to do mentorship. You know, that's how you share knowledge. That's how you bring new people in. You have the people who are in the community who have the expertise and then they hand it off to people. So I'm really excited to see additional mentoring opportunities and, you know, I would personally like to see even more mentoring opportunities throughout the year. So for everybody who's stepped up and done mentoring, you know, thank you. And, you know, I think maybe there's a way that we can make these, you know, more complimentary with each other. But, you know, I'm glad that the people in the community who are organizing the challenge are stepping up and doing that. And thank you for providing another opportunity to mentor people. So I'm really excited to see more mentor opportunities throughout the year. So for everybody who's stepped up and doing that, and thank you for providing another opportunity to help bring people into the community. And for anybody who is interested in mentoring, you know, I would really encourage you to look at both opportunities and then maybe we as a TSE can talk about what additional mentoring opportunities we could, you know, pursue, you know, later in the year as well. No, that's great. Thank you for the clarification. So maybe the community challenge projects could wind up in the leadership program. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's probably a way that we can make these complimentary and have one feed into the other. If you, you know, say, hey, I'm interested in being a mentor for the challenge, maybe we should email you and let you know about the other mentorship opportunities and vice versa. Great. Thank you. Yeah, Bobby, that's a great idea. Just, you know, volunteers who want to be mentors to be able to understand that, right? One could feed into the other. All right. Thanks. Are there any other announcements that anybody has that they'd like to make? All right. So seeing no hands, seeing nobody coming off mute. So we did get three quarterly reports in this week. We have the Aries and Indy reports that came in as well as the Aroha report. I did not see any specific questions that were not addressed in the comments on those particular reports, but want to give the opportunity here for anybody who has any questions or comments on those reports to offer those now. And I see that we have quite a few representatives from Aroha on the call. So, Sarah or if you had anything that you wanted to say. Hi. No, not exactly. We just came to just in case if there are any questions, if there are any clarifications needed also. I think on the call is a new project manager for Hyperlegio Aroha to Dmitri. Probably you met him on a previous call, but just in case I think it's important to maybe it's important to say hi. So yeah, that's one of the biggest changes I think. But yeah, there are no questions from your side or something. We were here just in case there are any questions to present the report. And yeah. Thank you, Sarah. We really appreciate you joining these calls after you submit the reports in case there are any questions. So today it doesn't look like we do have any questions for you. Feel free to stay on the call though and contribute to these other discussions as you see fit. All right. With that and Dmitri welcome to the Aroha too. We're happy to have you as a contributor as well. Thank you guys. Okay, so let's move into our discussion topics. The first one is a topic that Arun brought to us. I think I will let Arun introduce this topic and start the discussion. Thanks Tracy. So everyone, quick introduction of what this issue is and not exactly it's rather a discussion point. So when we were having a discussion with Alfonso for one of the community events and Alfonso suggested that a few folks from CNCF reached out to him and asking how can they get involved with hyperledger and they have the cloud expertise they have knowledge on some of the things that may be beneficial and they did not have a starting point for them at on getting involved with hyperledger itself. So I wanted to understand in more depth and that's when Alfonso connected with me to Raul who is on this call as well and he will be speaking more about the collaboration opportunities that he has a proposal for. So I'll hand it over to Raul from he's based in California. Good morning everyone. Can you hear me okay? Excellent. Well thank you Arun for the introduction my name is Raul Flamenco I'm the co-organizer of Cloud 80 San Salvador this is a community in El Salvador, Central America up to now the community has grown to approximately I would say 280 participants. This came as a result of an idea to do a first Kubernetes community. This is an event that happens in communities in which we can share knowledge about the different projects at CNCF as you may know the project of CNCF that started through Kubernetes but since then those projects are more up to probably 80 and so for us it was an opportunity to open doors for more talent for Latin America but one of the things that we noticed is that I'm glad that this morning the conversation also happened around mentorship that's one of the main things how I came in contact with Alonso Covela. He's going to be presenting tonight at the Cloud Native San Salvador more like a meetup and share the intent is to share more information about hyperlature and for CNCF and also about our community as well but the main reason what I reached out to Alonso is because I noticed he was a mentor for the hyperlature project and so and he happened to be made so unlike another observation was that these projects are very visible so we can tell for example who the mentors are who the mentees are, what the projects what are the requirements but overall perhaps I haven't looked very deep but I have looked quite extensively and I couldn't find an individual that had completed this project from Latin America and the reason why I think I thought that was important is because if we have one we can invite him or her to talk to the community and make it easier for the rest of the members to see the possibility of securing one of those mentorships because another thing that we notice is that if those individuals they complete a mentorship successfully immediately can secure a full-time job and those jobs can develop anywhere in the world so the idea is that instead of these young people which is probably the biggest structure that these countries have walk anywhere from San Salvador to the United States, Los Angeles just like I did in this chat from El Salvador so we are working we're trying to understand as much as possible about the project so we can open doors for these individuals one of the things that we are encouraging them as well is to participate on QCOM QCOM happens once a year in North America and once a year in Europe the next one it is in Valencia in May and so we encouraging those students to apply for scholarships to travel to Valencia last year in October we had one student from El Salvador who attended QCOM in Los Angeles and so he is one of the co-organizers for the community as well so any conversations with Alonso we start possibly thinking about doing a Kubernetes community day jointly again that is a process throughout the conversation right now that needs to be developed perhaps it would improve tonight during our presentation and so we're looking forward to that thank you Daniela Raul, thank you for coming and speaking with us it's fantastic and it's so great to see Alfonso and you connect and really expand and we do some other collaborations across other projects I know the Linux Foundation open source summit virtual in Latin America is coming and we're going to be participating and are asking our Latin America community to present at that as well or to put in their CFPs for that as well so we'd love to work with you David I don't know if you have touched base with Alfonso this but David and I will reach out to you Raul if that's okay and work with Alfonso and yourself and see how we can assist thank you Daniela great any other questions or comments to Raul around ways in which we might make Hyperledger stronger across the globe Arun so I guess Raul probably short sold himself on this call but when I had a call with him last week he actually proposed many other ideas as well so one of the ideas were the expertise that CNCF community brings in and some of the projects that we have in Hyperledger around tooling which could highly benefit from those expertise that the CNCF communities can bring in but the question however he had was how do we train them how do we bring them up to speed so that they can be contributors to these projects and Raul also suggested or maybe told that they are highly enthusiastic in learning and getting involved with Hyperledger especially blockchain ecosystem and they trust Hyperledger to be one such umbrella or ecosystem which they should get involved and we can look for ways of building community around projects such as Bevel Sello and any other tooling projects that we have including Caliper I guess that's a great opportunity if we can connect maintainers of those projects or probably plan around some activities around that I completely agree I think this is a call right maybe it wasn't strong enough but I think a call to all of the maintainers of the different projects that if you're interested in getting more contributors it might be a way to do that working with the Latin America community working with Raul and Afonso to make that happen that there's a desire for learning there's a desire for mentorship there's a desire to get people aware of the projects within Hyperledger Daniela you still have your hand up I don't know if that was just a holdover or thank you any other comments or questions that we would like to ask Raul while he's on the call with us alright seeing none I will again thank Raul for his time for coming to speak to us I hope that this starts to get the call out to a number of different folks to really start to engage more and I'm hoping that there's a lot more conversation that's going to happen after this particular call thank you Tracy alright so with that let's transition to our next discussion topic so Grace has been leading a task force and specifically on what is the right direction for our chat system I'm going to hand this over to Grace even though I didn't tell her I was going to do that but hopefully she knew that this was coming hand it off to Grace to have a conversation around the proposal that she has put forth to the TSC cool yes I was expecting this great thanks Tracy thanks for sharing my screen if that's helpful I'll drop the link in the chat I did share this in the TSC email last week so happy to I hope folks have had a chance to review but maybe I'll just give a three to five kind of the process that we went through and who we talked to and the proposal at hand and then obviously open up to questions and all that so let me share my screen just in case so I'm sure you guys many of you remember a few months ago we were originally supposed to transition hyperledger from rocket chat to element or matrix chat channel that didn't pan out for various reasons so in that kind of decision or we decided that it might make sense to kind of do a broader evaluation of the chat channel system understand what hyperledger's communities use the chat channel services for who uses it what uses it what are the strengths weaknesses and all that so there was a group task force set up as Tracy mentioned with participants across several of the different projects including many of you here so thank you for your time and we kind of got together and wanted to understand what are the challenges what are we thinking of what does hyperledger need kind of for this next phase for communication so you can see here in the task force page if you all were interested you can see kind of our notes on the left side from our meetings you can see our interview questions and the different responses from all the different groups we talked to if you're curious so after that process we've run over the last couple months and gathering feedback we are recommending the hyperledger transition to discord and we put together this proposal in front of you so I think one thing that we realized we wanted to ask the question is it really worth moving at all and is working just fine for everybody and we're trying to solve a problem that isn't there and I think we would agree that we definitely saw several like significant challenges that the community members have had with rocket chat generally particularly with onboarding user experience so using LFID to join having many challenges be updated or not used it is a more costly platform all those challenges were kind of identified and we decided that it made sense to pretend to recommend discord wide discord you might ask so one we got feedback from the group and the community members that it's easy to use so the onboarding is much more seamless than rocket chat two there's some familiarity already across the community lots of people already use it so that was promising as well that it wouldn't be a steep learning curve for the communities and then third it is cheaper than rocket chat so it's a good link you hear there is a feature comparison if you're so inclined to look as a part of the task force we also realize it's not just a recommendation but how do we make this an easy process or how we recommend the TSE I guess approve the migration because it's not just saying here's the new chat channel go but let's make sure we're being very conscientious and moving everyone you know I guess high communication manner so here's our recommendations on the migration and you know what communication should be sent and potential timelines we also recommend you know some channel cleanup which and how we would kind of take the opportunity to recommend different channel organizations and naming including you know how we would recommend each of them be consistent so every time you're looking for a new channel or you're familiar with one project but you might not know the other one or might not know where to find the other one it'll be easy to find because you know I'm familiar with basic contributors if I want to find the contributors fabric I just look up fabric contributors for example so just kind of some general cleanup here around how we can better manage the chat system around the chat channel expectations you know we did have a conversation as a group around you know maybe we should have multiple chat channels or how should we you know best serve our community and we think that it made the most sense to have one chat channel be the home and recommended a place for the community broadly so that's just kind of written out here we also you know recommended that the TSC helps kind of oversee the migration path so we're able to understand you know how it's gone ask questions of the projects of how the migration is gone just to make sure we're keeping a pulse of you know we're not losing community members through that process and then at the bottom here just kind of a FAQ of you know that we thought might be helpful as well so I think that's I think that's all maybe I'll pause and say does anyone from the task force want to speak up or add anything that I haven't mentioned here okay so yeah so then if no other additions or I didn't miss anything important maybe we'll take questions or feedback here sorry it's not a question I just didn't reach the unmute button in time so I wanted to give this little extra information that was important to me about discord that it does support linking specific messages externally as in via http links that you can post elsewhere such as on github and just for me it was very important so I figured out additionally I like this as one of the things alright thanks Peter so any discussion from the TSE members any concerns with the proposal any sort of things that we should think about you know this is the expectation here I think is that you know the TSE is going to end up voting on this proposal to see if it's something that we would like to do or not so I think this is our time to discuss before we get to the process of voting yay or nay Jim yeah no question for me just want to thank Grace and the task force for getting this and Ry for putting things up at least from the far flies community's point of view we've been using extensively for discussions and no very smooth experience thanks Jim I'm finding it really hard to believe that there's no sort of discussion or commentary that people want to have Arno yeah are you expecting to have some kind of trying period I mean honestly I've never used discord I have no idea what this is like I know my son who is a teenager uses that's the extent of how much I know about it yeah Arno there has been a test server set up that a few of the folks on the task force have been using Jim just mentioned that they've been transitioning their stuff over on the firefly side to have discussions to see how it's working so I don't know that in the plan we had any sort of trial period specifically focused on this Grace thoughts on that yeah so we actually mentioned this in the task force meeting and we had the same question and we kind of decided that we because we've been ongoing the kind of pilot phase over the last few months with different projects testing it out you know the space being worked on the firefly have been using it we kind of designated that as appropriate enough you know pilot to make sure it worked for us but yeah and I think Dan maybe you were going to speak up so yeah the basic team did kind of a little quick pilot and we said oh we need to wait until there's a formal thing before we get back to it and all the maintainers there are like what can we go back when can we go back so there's a lot of support at least in basu and part of that stems from the main that part of basu with the 8th research discord most of the ethereum main and ethereum type teams and projects have all moved to discord for the most part and it's it's a lot better user experience than rocket chat it's you know there's I've never had it accidentally logged me out and never had missed messages on a phone there was a PR that went out that because I didn't see that my phone I wasn't able to review it and it got forgotten about so there's you know and there's a lot more active development going on in discord than there is in the rocket chat servers and rocket chat clients so I think we just get it's the whole issue of the winners win more and you know there's exponential you know that the power of the network is greater the more people you get you know the whole is greater than some of the parts by the network effect law so I think that's a lot of the benefit we would reap by going to discord is a lot of the stability and ease of use we just get secondarily because of the larger discord community versus rocket chat which is quickly becoming an also ramp in the in the ephemeral chat race it's as quickly consolidating is what I see going on I mean my concern honestly you know it's not even for me personally I actually believe I'm fairly flexible for this kind of stuff I just I'm used to make do of whatever but we we've been through this before where we said oh let's all switch to you know element and then people say oh no no I don't like it and so my concern is you know I would like to make sure we're not going to end up with it well there's one project who doesn't like it and then we end up with yet another situation where some people unhappy say hey this sucks we should move to this other new stuff that's much better right and and so that's my only concern here is you know are we confident that just because there are and you know I don't mean to disregard the the report from the people around the task force I'm very willing to take your word for it but you know we are basically being asked to decide for the whole community and I don't know that you know I can do that with the confidence that yeah everybody is going to like it that's all that's the problem with that wasn't going to be able to scale the resources that were put on to scale it had gotten taken off so it wasn't that one project or one team said no I don't like element is that element couldn't handle the level that LF was going to put on it so that's one thing discord does have solved and solving the issue that we were having with our transition directly Jim yeah I just want to stress that the fact that we've had really good experience we are our team was very reluctant to use rocket chat because it was it was a very bad experience because we're used to using slack which as you guys know is very smooth but using discord we can say it offers equal comparable experience as the commercial product with slack so I think to Arnold's point as far as use experience go it's probably the best out there and then it's obviously very easy for a new project like firefly to pick up this and go so the concern with migration I think teams like fabric which has very significant following back in in rocket chat probably should weighing on the cost of migration which you know obviously a firefly team wouldn't have a problem for it thanks Jim sure I just wanted to bring up two things one Dan already touched on the reason matrix didn't work out was because of a change of priorities at and I I know I say this all the time but we already have multiple chat platforms we already have a Roja is on telegram and all of our Chinese community is on we chat so we already have that issue before us so you know anyway it's all got but so let me ask a follow-up question then if I may interject I mean is the expectation that those groups will be able to use discord and be happy to I hope that I hope so I hope it's good enough that we can pull some of that traffic over but I think you know with we chat that's going to be a very long and difficult road yeah okay but at least in Roja it would be interesting to know if they would be willing to let go of telegram anyway thanks and that sort of region is certainly something we'll need to do like we just say yes this is the proposal we're done and then that's the end of it there's kind of a process that will go on after we make a decision I think to make sure that people are encouraged and helped to move over all right I'm gonna I'm gonna break in here guys and say if you do have a comment to make please raise your hand because we do have a queue already of people who are looking to make comments on this topic so you know obviously we do have the Roja team on the call they can also raise their hand and make comments on this as well but I'm going to call Hart who has had his hand up for quite some time awesome thank you Tracy so I just want to point out that anecdotally David Peter and I gave a talk at developer week yesterday and we were explicitly asked if there was a discord community for cactus so people who aren't familiar with Hyperledger but are sort of interested in the blockchain space you know are familiar with discord they have discord and they're asking if we have discord communities I think we all laughed on stage when we or at least the virtual stage when we got this question because it was so relevant to what we've been talking about so I think that just sort of galvanized my opinion a little bit on this that I think this is a great thing to do because people outside of Hyperledger expect it all right thanks Hart Dave Jim asked about projects like fabric that have a long history on rocket chat and I can't talk to everybody of course in the fabric world but I have talked to a few people and I think we'd be very happy to make the switch actually even with having to pull over legacy users from rocket chat other problems besides just the technology is you know the number of channels that we've had we've created way too many in the early days and I think the new structure that's proposed here is very good in terms of having one general channel one for contributors and one for announcements I think that's going to make things a lot easier so at least myself and the other maintainers I've talked to from fabric would be very happy with this thanks Dave Jim yeah thanks Tracy I just want to clarify one thing because the question of telegram came up my understanding is as far as what Hyperledger is paying for and making available to members we chat sorry rocket chat was the only thing right and we're switching to discord so if others are still wanting to do other platforms I don't know if that's a problem we should worry about as part of the consideration for the migration yeah I would just add on for Arno's sake so he doesn't have to jump in here but I think that the concern if I heard correctly from Arno is more around this idea of are we going to fracture the community even more right so we already have a fractured community as far as chat is concerned are we going to fracture it even more if people are not wanting to move over to discord as the platform Peter thank you Tracy just a quick point extra on what Arno said which is how do we know if people will be going to migrate from their existing other chat platforms and I thought about the same thing but then eventually arrived to the conclusion that we don't but I am very confident personally that we have a much better chance convincing them to migrate over to discord than we had with rocket chat just because of the all the reasons that everybody else has mentioned already alright thanks Peter hi so yeah we use we use bridges to bridge rocket chat with telegram and Gitter so I think that at this point chat is the least used chat I think so and I understand why personally I every it took me like a couple of weeks to understand how to log in with LFID that you need to log in and then just close this second window and only then you will be redirected so it was a little bit tricky and yeah overall it's like it's a little bit difficult and I agree that it might not be the best idea and yeah but the question is I'm looking at different options for bridging discord with other chats have you researched the options to bridge the chats together somehow maybe as far as I know Sarah that is not the case I know we have two hands up already but I don't know if any of the other task force members have done any research on bridges sorry go ahead sorry yeah it just seems like there are some bridges discord is very popular so it might be easier to find options for discord as well but if will it be okay if not everyone is on discord sorry guys sorry guys we didn't do too much research I'll drop in the chat it looks like there is a bridging option documentation between discord and telegram this is just my google search really quickly but the goal is to have all of the projects in the hyper-allergic community operate on one channel I'm sure we'd love to talk to the ROHA team and kind of work through what that means for you all specifically but I think the goal is definitely just one channel but and happy to kind of talk through discord with you all and see if it meets your needs but there is like just to be clear it looks like doing a google search you can have a bridge but someone would have to validate that got it thanks alright Arnaud so I think Grace kind of answered indirectly my question but I want to make it clear I mean the expectation is that rocket chat will be sunset that is the expectation yes right so is there like a time frame I'm sorry if you mentioned this I may have missed it but I believe we have it in the proposal sorry I'm answering the questions I hope that's okay Tracy tell me yeah go for it yeah so so what we do is we have kind of a 3060 90 day review process for the task force to go through in the migration I believe we give I'm just looking at the plan we have a one month transition timeline is what we propose now of like here is when the original communication goes out we send we include the communications of the migration in discord rocket chat mailing list you know all the other kind of the website all those sort of things but the plan is for it to be a one month transition I think we're open to feedback on that though if people think it should be longer it's usually good to have kind of an overlap just to tell people who go through the old system right hey don't come here anymore go over there yeah exactly yeah so that's what that month transition would be so would be starting to say go to discord go to discord here's the new trial channel we're all going here yeah exactly yep but so okay I'm happy with that but I you know I wouldn't want to end up with what was just talked about earlier where we would have added discord and then we still get stuck with rocket chat because some project said no I if I might there are other external forces that are the LF spends a lot of money and effort to keep rocket chat running rocket chat is the last service that's on the previous authentic stack so there's a lot of internal pressure to and rocket chat does not support the new authentic that all the other every other property the LF runs does so there is pressure to move off of rocket chat for external reasons as well and there's more to that as well there are a lot of bugs a lot of long standing bugs that have not been fixed in rocket chat and we don't have the developer bandwidth to go fix so there's we're highly incentivized to move off of rocket we the Linux foundation are highly incentivized to move off of rocket chat sounds good and I haven't heard anybody say no I love rocket chat I want to stay on it so maybe this is irrelevant this is a but I just want to make sure this was part of the plan that we would indeed pull the plug on rocket chat so thank you yeah I know it's probably worthwhile worthwhile to mention that at least here in the plan right that that is the case I think that you know obviously was an assumption that all of the task force members had but didn't necessarily include it as a statement specifically but definitely should be included I mean so I guess we can divide that into two sets of user right those who regularly come and visit these channels so these are contributors and willing to be maintenance kind of people and those who are just looking for help on these projects and since we are going to redirect I'm assuming that we are going to set chat dot hyperledger dot org and redirect that to discord directly when we start migration and those people who still have bookmarked the old links on going to rocket chat we make a work for I mean we need a plan for them I guess one month period should still be good for them I mean is that good understanding that I have or is it different from I know I was part of the task force but this is something that I did not find a fine answer for in this proposal so grace I think the proposal says that we will add messages to the different chat channels on rocket chat to let them know that the system is being migrated over to discord Ry there's an FAQ here that says that we can sort of redirect the chat hyperledger dot org to discord server so I assume those are the two kind of things that we'll be doing in order to make sure that people find the chat system yeah so there are I have so number one rocket chat goes read only and is still available for searching for some period of time a few months or whatever but on the front page when you when you get there you'll get a pop up saying hey discussions have moved and I'll have a link I just put a link in the TSC channel to the invite the self-serve invite for discord and then later once rocket chat is actually turned off completely we would just do like an engine X you know redirect over to the to that URL so people could join or something of that nature that's right so so are we also planning to take a backup of rocket chat because mostly community refer the rocket chat previous communication chats to any kind of solution or some problem there so if we move to the new discord channel and the people who are looking to hold messages for solving their problem so maybe like make it available for read only or maybe after few time few months we can take complete backup and put somewhere so it's always available to the community something can be done like that so I did this when we transitioned to slack I put the slack archive up on github my plan is to do something similar with rocket chat I just really question the value of it because chat is way more ephemeral it's not like a mailing list where it's just way more ephemeral I question the value of getting the archive out but I do plan on getting an archive rendered as html in some way so that it continues to be available I think some value because people refer to the old chat how the problem solved what was the different links and different concepts any other questions or comments as we're approaching the top of the hour any thoughts on whether or not this is something we want to vote on today or whether or not we need to a bit more time before we get to the vote overall I think we've heard more positive comments in support of this so I think we should thank the task force and go ahead for the recommendation alright so we can thank the task force for sure I do believe that Arno have maybe just motion that we vote on the proposal second second alright so we have a second so let's go ahead and vote then do you want to run us through a vote yeah sure thing David Inyard yes grace yes heart yes Jim yes Kamalash yes Nathan yes Peter yes Tracy yes Troy okay yes Angelo yes Arno yes Artem yes Arun yes yes that was fairly enthusiastic okay the motion passes alright thanks everyone for that alright I think you really confused people by starting in the middle of the instead of at the beginning of the end but keep us all awake I've considered randomly picking them but I didn't know if I could keep it in my head who I'd actually chosen so alright so thank you everyone for the discussion thank you to the task force for the amount of time that you put into this I'm looking forward to the progress of us moving towards discord and for me being able to remove a messaging system from all of my devices so thank you for that any other last comments or anything else that people would like to bring up before we close the call quick reminder for tomorrow's task force we have security process task force and I would encourage all of you to join in and we have a couple of interesting topics to be discussed so please do join in alright thanks Arun for that reminder of the security task force any other closing items alright so with that I am going to say thank you Hart for your service on the TSC we are looking forward to working with you very closely in your new role as the CTO and that is my closing comments for this go around thanks all for joining we will talk to you again next week thanks Tracy thank you bye thanks Tracy