 Welcome everybody to the hyper ledger healthcare special interest group meeting general meeting on April 27th. This is the first time I'm leading it my name is Ray Dogum, and I'm the new chair of the group so I'm honored to be doing this and I'm very thankful for the group for selecting me. I'm going to probably first start off by just saying that this is a public forum, meaning that anything you say will be, you know, share will be recorded and hosted publicly. So if you would like to read more about that, go to the Linux Foundation anti trust policy to read that. Yeah, and any questions on that. Okay, I think first thing I'd like to hear just to make sure if there's any new people and they want to introduce themselves to the group. That would be fantastic if you do want to introduce yourself. Feel free to unmute or raise your hand and we can call on you. This is a very, you know, open public group so feel free to share what you know who you are, and what you're looking to learn from this group. Looks like everyone here is probably been here before that's fine or don't want to share. It's also fine. So, let's just jump right into the discussion for today and we have a few different industry news articles that I pulled up from the weeks prior to this. But before we go to that there isn't upcoming to upcoming events. What's happening today it's the T mobile 5g and healthcare panel discussion webinar. I thought this was interesting because there's some discussion about blockchain that could happen. Even that Dr Pierre vigilance was at a quitting health is going to be on the panel. So I just wanted to make you all aware of this event going on. If you're interested in joining will be a Q&A session. So that's one thing, and there is this Stanford event the science of blockchain happening August 29 that was on the agenda from previous I just wanted to keep in there. So, first up here is Microsoft has recently invested in the theorems consensus company. So, anyone in here has probably heard of consensus before. So it's interesting to see that Microsoft is spending a huge amount of money investing in them, along with soft bank and Temasek. So they're in total raising $450 million but was pretty significant, given, you know, the valuation of consensus now is doubled to $7 billion. Has anyone seen this take a look at this but it was pretty, pretty big deal for the industry overall. Yeah, I took a look at it. How does this affect consensus health, or is it still. Yeah, I wouldn't say it affects. That's a good question so I don't think it directly would it impact the quitting health. So putting health is right company of consensus health for anyone who didn't know. But it doesn't necessarily or not that I am aware of. But I did think that this chart was pretty interesting just in general the amount of funding that's going to blockchain startups. So, I think it's sort of eight fold in 2021. So, that's a pretty big deal from my perspective. Yeah, any thoughts. Yeah, I thought that's a huge increase. It's crazy. I know that like I'm part of a job that funds a lot of blockchain startups and I don't know if it's related to just like the Dow all the dows coming up and raising funds and distributing them to different startups. I think that they will probably be doing that. That one thing I did see in this article is they are converting all the money that they raised into ether. So I thought that was pretty interesting. That's a big bet. That makes a ton of sense. What I was always curious about is like, where's the money going is going towards more the institutional side of the business is going more towards the developer side of the business. You assume like, so they have this metamask institutional offering. Is that institutional offering like for the most part I'm not sure if like metamask institutional has the actual tools and plugins to make that valuable, or is it bit go and cactus custody on the back end that is actually making that like the real valuable tool for institutions to like getting to proof of state networks and other things like that. That's a question I truly have. I think that's a good question. I don't know if anyone in here has any insight into that but it does look like the funds will go into hiring 600 more employees. And they're going to be redesigning metamask later this year so watch out for that too. What can they redesign because they would just be focused on the institutional side because like the user and the consumer angle of metamask is, I mean, it's not perfect but it's probably the most successful on the market. Yeah, I mean, I feel like there is some design changes they can make to make it more friendly to new users, you know, I feel like if I didn't know how to navigate the web, you know, blockchain world. I feel like I'm risking something every time I'm signing a transaction like I'm not sure I'm doing this right so maybe just more educational material walkthroughs with metamask might be what they're doing. But we can find out maybe later this year about that. I'm going to move on to the next article actually. I thought this was pretty interesting too is published in Scientific American and a few other places as well. Basically, promoting this idea to endorse NFTs for basically health data and medical ethicists are endorsing it. So I don't know if anyone took a look at this one. I didn't read through all of it but it was pretty interesting from what I saw there's a full journal paper published in JMI are bioinformatics and biotechnology, where, you know, they talk about NFTs technology and how it could have avoided the problem highlighted by the Henrietta Lax story, which we may have all may already all know about. So yeah, just thought it was interesting because it talks about the medical ethical issues around health. I actually don't I don't know about that story personally. Could you give like maybe 15 seconds? Sure. So back, I think, yeah, since 1951 there was an African American woman who had cervical cancer, and her cells were harvested actually by doctors or researchers there at the time without her knowledge she wasn't aware of it. Her family wasn't aware of it. And those cells, they call them HeLa cells now. And they've been copied reproduced and used for research, you know, for decades now. Because the so called HeLa cells were able to survive and thrive in the lab, they became essential to a wide range of medical research. Henrietta Lax, her family were never given any, you know, reimbursement or funding or any sort of even acknowledgement that they were doing this. There's actually a movie about it is like a documentary movie. I forgot what it's called, but I didn't watch it. It was pretty good. I don't know was Oprah Winfrey might have been on it. Don't call me on that. So something took out. I thought it was pretty interesting. And just kind of validates this idea that NFTs do have the potential to bring health data back to the patient and allow them to own it in a way that we couldn't before so I think today, and I want to shut up because one of the people to give their thought but I think today NFTs and the whole ownership and distribution of them is is a highly taxable event. And like one to mint an NFT to your origination is a taxable event, then every time you distribute it either on a marketplace or to another user that is viewed as a taxable event. So unless like, unless the user and the NFT is in distributed for a very high and large amount. It probably wouldn't be worth it for most people to create an empty because then it wouldn't be worth like the hassle and the taxable like write ups you have to be able to follow in order to stay compliant and everyone in healthcare So like, I think for and I've said this many times on this, this gathering that like, unless you're dealing with like superstar athletes, or you're dealing with chronically ill patients. You know, like the extremes of the bell curve of what data actually health data actually matters to people. I'm not sure if like, creating NFTs really worth it unless someone just is really like a data ownership advocate, and I really wants to be able to be ahead of that I think those are kind of the maxims and the motivations. I also think like the what molecule and the IP NFT group of like distributing the access in the NFT, when you pull people together to then if that NFT is very beneficial to a specific subset of medical data or therapeutic. That's where it gets a little bit more interesting. I agree with you the idea that every transaction NFT or cryptocurrency is taxable as a taxable event that is a huge barrier for entry, but you can imagine some countries or some territories, we don't have those laws or regulations and maybe it's more open. Would it be more, would you be more inclined to use it if you were living in one of those countries, for example. No, it's the taxable stuff to but then also the minting of the gas process to if you're trying to do it full decentralized way. Otherwise, if you do it in more the centralized way than the centralized company kind of like can dictate the price and the cost and the percentage ownership of that NFT a little bit more, so you get less of a financial benefit to like in a lot of catch like in Africa in particular, they're creating NFTs to own different digital assets of yourself right. Not medical data as much but there is research going on in that field, but it's the centralized companies are creating the platform and service for that that are taking the burden of the fee but then also taking a higher percentage of the ownership of it. And part of that thinking was actually in Meta's like idea of like why they want to charge so much for digital assets in the metaverse, like I don't know if anyone saw that but they're charging like 47% of a fee to take if you are like selling things in this. And part of that was because of the thinking of NFTs and taxable events and and all things like that that it wouldn't be worth it for them to be able to create these artifacts these assets, unless it was that high of a fee due to the risk and other compliance they would need to adhere to. Yeah no that's a good point I think the decentralization of it is important, but also you could imagine in the future a side chain or some sort of, you know, second layer where the costs, the fees are really minimal, and it doesn't cost too much to mint NFT or share or move it around. So, I think we'll have to see how this evolves but yeah I think those are really good points. Hi Ray Mike and sorry, apologies but I'm traveling at the moment so I'm not going to turn my camera on but one thing I'm thinking about is what what kind of medical data are you talking about data generated by personalized devices or are you talking about medical notes and like what is the practical implication to like providing or making a medical like notes like how, how are you going to do it day to day like doctors are already already overloaded. The system that we captured the data in is that the NFT, or is it just going to be a photocopy of the patient's notes as a JPEG on OpenSea. So like, I think the idea is there, but I just think the practical implications of actually doing it with a face to face interaction with the patient is somewhat limited I think we're quite far away from that personally. That's also a good question like what discrete elements do we consider the NFT is it the entire medical record as one NFT or would it be each specific field considered like your blood pressure is in separate NFT. I don't know. That's a good question I think here in this article they're sort of saying medical researchers and companies are purchasing large and randomized data sets to find novel Microsoft disease trained diagnostic algorithms and create risk calculators. See how that. Yeah, one of the values. Oh, God. I'm just thinking out loud I said one of maybe one of the ways to do it with the ICD classification so then you classify your NFT according to your disease state but that's maybe a distant thought but yeah that's that's just a thought sorry. Yeah, so I think just the way in my concern is more about the copyright or the bill consent. So my own experience either at Vanderbilt or outside of Chicago is the consent to treat also includes the consent to do research. And that research is totally owned by the health core organization. And in fact, there's specific clauses at state that the patient can't know nor it has no right to any information gleaned from the derived data. So I think it's an uphill battle as far as like I think the technology of minting an NFT that represents some aspect of the data or a derived algorithm or approach to the data a new insights I guess is I think it's more of a legal question. I think the notes is very clearly share with the patient but it's owned by the copyrighted by the provider who wrote them. It's my understanding of legal aspects mentioned medical notes are messy there there is natural language it's medical language it's hard to parse and I think we have a really good mechanism to understand natural language. So there's a lot of processing of it for extracting tokens and concepts, but not the usefulness so that any member also to remember that the purpose of the medical note is for Johnny for the physician to have a place to jot down their ideas and to remind themselves about what's going on. Number one, number two is share those thoughts with other providers, and then it's really an excuse not to pay providers when they haven't documented enough. Like that's the purpose of documentation or you could say that that's more justification for reimbursement but my flip side of that is my own experiences it's an excuse not to pay the doctor when you haven't documented it enough. So I think so I don't know if the medical notes per se is going to be helpful. Now I think I also did point out the what happened with Henrietta Lacks could happen today. And so there's nothing preventing like medical if you look at some of the legal jargon in the consent to treat and I know I was on the IRB when I was at Vanderbilt and there's a whole bunch of controversy of you assume that the first clause of the consent to treat is that, you know, we are an academic medical center doing research and we have the right to use your leftover blood and genomic information to put into our synthetic derivative or our databases to do research. It's really hard to actually have an opt out model like that to enable patients so you can imagine Henrietta Lacks which is like it's leftover blood or sampling that was immortalized. And the legal jargon right now is my understanding is that doesn't prevent that from happening today. Great points. Yeah, anybody else have comments to share on this one. Thanks for that discussion everybody. Next here is an article about Coinbase launching their NFT marketplace. You know we all might have heard of OpenSea and others, but it's interesting to see Coinbase launching theirs, not frankly surprised, but it is something to be aware of. This is one of the largest exchanges for crypto. And now that they're in NFTs for policy, another huge uptick in the marketplace. Not too much to discuss here just wanted to mention as an important thing. I don't think they're selling medical NFTs at all it's probably just still images and collections, but who knows. But less than ideal numbers when it comes to activity on this marketplace, it is, it has been very quiet, would say on the Coinbase NFT marketplace. Yeah. All right, this other article here the next one 22% NFT project so I was actually I don't know how I first found these guys but it was, it's a project run somewhere in Europe. It's a university project. And what they're doing is trying to the quick they've already created a collection of NFT art based on the prevalence of different diseases globally so each NFT is an image, you can see here and they're randomized in terms of which diseases the individual has so this person you can see has, I guess diabetes type to want each individual NFT can have up to six different diseases so comorbidities, and the prevalence in the NFT matches the prevalence in the real world which I thought was pretty interesting. The purpose of this project is to raise awareness of different types of diseases around the world. And they are planning to donate some of it to charity as well so I thought it was interesting. Giving block the giving block put this together. It looks like they're referencing the giving block so we want to donate to organizations that help people, giving them new perspectives in a transparent way using platforms such as the giving block as much as possible, and making our donation transaction ID public. I did invite their group I'm on their discord channel I don't know if there's anybody in here specifically that's would like to talk about the group about the project. Actually, I'm here. Sorry, I'm in the gym and therefore it's a bit. No problem. I don't know if you can hear me. We can hear you do you want to give kind of a brief overview of any updates you have on the project. You have many NFTs you've sold so far with what's your plan. Thanks. As mentioned, the goal of our division of the project is really to create awareness, especially in the NFTs space where there are a lot of data that are not real. Therefore, we want to really to put some real data into the space like created a collection. And therefore we choose finally 60 more than 60 diseases and based on the prevalence of those diseases. These were put in a random way into the into the collection. And it was quite tough actually we launched an interim in the beginning of the year. We we struggled a little bit with marketing and maybe you know better than me but marketing is really a tough thing in the NFTs space and therefore we sold the maybe 40 NFTs. And we tried to relaunch now also on Solana. And now we sold maybe 15 NFTs out of 10,000 therefore it was a success because we were able to to put this on place and put everything together so that we could have a collection. But finally we didn't sell everything, but we are planning to to do more a community driven project out of this. And therefore, our next step will be we will go in the direction if you're part of the community and you are active in the community, you will receive NFTs. And with those NFTs, you can make a change because you are creating awareness. Exactly. And as you mentioned, we are donating or we donated already through giving blocks on the first page you you you see it. And also this transaction that we did with with the different projects. If you go a bit further down to the organization that we donated. There are those links where we did it. And therefore, that's about our project and I'm really thankful that you gave us this opportunity to be part of this. And actually it sounds really interesting what you're discussing here. Also, Rafael, thanks for joining us from the gym and sharing more about 22% project. Thank you. Health is wealth, man. That's awesome. And getting in the gym while we'll take a call. I do it all the time too. Good question. How much, like, obviously giving blocks a for profit entity whereas like someone like endowments the nonprofit entity, like, how much of the actual total ghost, like, how much do you as a operator and giving block have to take of the total to then give it to the actual organization. Actually, basically, we don't know exactly how much giving block is taking away from what we are donating. But we what we donate is at the beginning was 22% of what the sale was. This because we wanted really with the other other percentage of money, we wanted really to grow the project and to evolve it by do a breeding collection or something like this. But actually, yeah, we didn't sell out so far, but we still believe in the project. Now we we took a little break, but actually, we think by dreaming out by involving more the community. And now it's also not a really good time for NFTs in general, we think that we can anyway reach our goal to create awareness. So what we did, or what we do is that every three months this percentage is increased. Therefore, now we are already donating 24, almost 25% of what the income is, and then up to 99% of the income and all the royalties on the different platforms and things like this. Thanks Rafael. And I actually have one of the FT's I'm using the image as my Twitter profile picture so I think it's pretty cool. And I like supporting this project myself. Any other comments questions on this project. Okay. I do like, I love the project this is great like, and I don't want to take away from like the great like the good that you guys are doing as a group. But does any of this become like, like, and maybe I'm speaking I turn here on this but like isn't this like hippo identifiable information that like but someone's consenting that they have this like viewable right like other concerns are things that you've had to think about when it comes to like too much medically identifiable information on these IDs. So, actually, I didn't fully understand the question. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to say so Mike's asking if there's any regulatory issues with patient data being shared. But really Mike these images, you know any, any person can buy any of the images so they don't have if they have, you know, skin cancer they don't have to buy an FT with skin cancer they can buy any of them so there's no, I don't know where the risk would be for compliance but what were you thinking? Actually, it's a good question is something that I thought also about it was to use the information about VHO and but finally it's the purpose is not to make money but it's really to create awareness and if they shared the data and we share the data. I don't think it's a big issue. And if people are buying those NFTs with specific diseases it's up to them but I don't know maybe in the US there are some specific regulation that I was not aware or we were not aware. Can I answer your question Mike? And here I'm just showing the open sea, one of the listings you can see the different diseases as tuberculosis. My opa and it tells you how many, what percentage of the NFTs have this trait so 23% of these the NFT collection has tuberculosis and that corresponds and problems, I believe to the Actually, actually here I have the problem is that not the whole collection was minted and therefore the information there it's not yet 100% correct, let's say like this. Yeah, you guys both definitely got as close to my question as possible I think it's still gray area in the space so we're all trying to think about it as well. Thanks guys. Next year, putting the me in the health care metaverse I thought this was pretty interesting. This is a post by ever heard, sure, he's actually the president of the health foundation, which is a blockchain health app health company, and they're working on many things including identity, and being able to really monetize our patients data as well so very similar to what a lot of companies are doing in the space. But a couple things that just felt we're interesting. He identifies some specific to put the digital twins data to work there are some prerequisites for the me to be part of this medical metaverse talks about identity as being one of them first our digital twin means an identity that is connected to reality. And I feel like that's a huge challenge for us right now as an industry as a group. In the real world, a patient identifier is essential because it allows matching treatments and health status to a person saying that watching technology can take privacy to the next level. So the key that is usually connected to a wallet and endless number of sub identities can be derived in a deterministic way. The reality of me today's health system is that data points are pretty unconnected as we can all agree. I see Jim St. Clair has his hand up. Hey, good morning. I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to read this but since I saw you scrolling through it about digital twins I would just go ahead and share with the group that Linux Foundation Public Health is doing a press release with the digital twin consortium which is part of the object management group probably this week or next we're launching a joint initiative we're also bringing on the University of Miami Medical Center as a as a member. Specifically on on digital twin technology and will be establishing a health care digital twin center of excellence at LFPH, which will include consideration of differential privacy and federated learning and decentralized identity to awesome. It's good enough thank you. So looking here. So, another part of this article is about users, user control data repository so to control the data representing me I need to have decentralized a decentralized repository to store my digital twins data. The health care industry tends to store data in a centralized way. Maybe that has its historical roots traditionally health care is organized medical centers. I did see this quote, which I thought was pretty interesting. The sentiment in the healthcare IT industry that is responsible for storing data medical data becomes apparent when we look at an exchange in 2017 at a meeting of cancer moonshot. A man who had lost a son to a brain tumor told the CEO of Epic systems that patients should accept should have access to the medical records. And then the CEO of Epic Judy Faulkner replied, Why do you want your medical records. There are thousands. There are 1000 pages of which you understand 10. I didn't look to verify this quote, but I thought it was interesting that she would say that. Yeah, the rest of the story is that by responded well I want to print it off and wallpaper my walls with it doesn't matter it's it's it's about me. I think just gets my point as far as like well who really does own that document I know it's about the patient. But it's in the EHR system. And this is the whole challenge with implementing the 21st century cures act is is how to really implement this and where the patient is in control. I think, you know, I think Pierre vigilance talked a few weeks maybe a month ago. Talking about how to flip the script on consent and with this idea of a consent receipt. And it's not it's also about explicitly opting in rather than this opt out model. And so for example in the consent for use of information in your EHR or leftover blood. And that's what like the Henry and a lack story is that nothing prevents that from happening today. It's now explicitly conditioned in your consent to treat that they're allowed to use your your blood and leftover sampling explicitly now. And you give given up that control. But if you flip the script where the the consent is now given from the patient and allowed for the health care system. Then you've now changed the dynamics where I'm now a shopper of health care where they respect my privacy. And I have options and I think the challenges in our health care system at least in the United States is that a lot of people just don't have options. They go to the closest place that actually has care. And they're willing to give up the privacy and or control over their information in hopes of just, you know, of getting their care and getting their health care. Yeah, it's a good point Jonathan and I mean I know we can't seem to have a meeting where we don't discuss, you know, patient ownership of data consent that sort of thing and I like to consistently bring up all of these things are governed by state laws we have 50 states that we have to sort through I'm working as part of a consent utility project now in with the Bronx regional health information organization around sharing like welfare agency data and child child welfare agency data and the like as part of social services which also fits into like the HL seven project and the challenges what the state of New York laws are for consent and what consent, what degree or notice of informed consent you can have is different than it is in New Jersey which is different than it is in every other state and in fact, on the issue of renewing consent with that with that opt in opt out model came up in discussion yesterday. You know Bronx Rio said, I don't even want to do it more than once a year. I don't want you know conditional consent models I can't I can't deal with that burden the individual can't either. California is opt in by default, unless you specify surprisingly often health information exchange. So you know we, we talk about hey patients want to control this and a we should give consent. We need this to be an issue at the state legislature level first and we need, you know, coordinated efforts to do that on a national basis, and organizations like epic and the ACLU aren't helping any and I'll stop ranting. You make a good point I think, you know, each state does have different laws and even if you move from one state to the other now we have to reconcile how your data is being managed to so it's pretty confusing. And just the last point on that too is the quote from Judy Faulkner was that epic isn't the focal point of data blocking. It's the health care systems that want to block to prevent competition. So it's like you have a health care organizations and it's a Nashville and there's seven of them. They wanted to make it difficult for you to go across the street. Epic is has care everywhere. So they're just selling each our systems. They're not necessarily the focal point of health care data blocking and just understanding the dynamic there. That's absolutely the case and and as a and as somebody from a company that worked with epic for a year around a centralized identity. If customers don't ask for it epic doesn't sell it. So, you know, we can come up with all these great ideas we want if a health care system isn't interested in enabling, you know, decentralized identity user consent, etc, etc, then it doesn't happen. Yeah, all good points. I'm going to move on, just because we do have a few more here that I want to cover so the next article is on. Just about a 16 z forms a crypto research and coding unit to help web three startups. So just another indication that the, you know, space is growing. If they were raising. Well, if you don't know already. And reason Horowitz has grown into one of the largest investors in crypto ranking 2.2 billion dollars for its third crypto fund last summer so that's pretty big. This is a pretty short article on coin desk. I'm excited to announce the creation of their a 16 z crypto research group, a new kind of multidisciplinary lab that will work closely with our portfolio and others towards solving the important problems in the space and toward advancing the science and technology of the next generation of the internet. So, VC is screaming at web three. Not a bad thing but that's what's happening in this case. All right, and it looks like you got some red in here in the markets today Bitcoin down there and down to next on my list is this article from MIT technology review that I thought was pretty interesting and that it kind of explains why maybe the crypto revolution. May not be for everybody. So, recommend this to anyone who likes this sort of devil's advocate perspective but they do say that there are some value there is value in it as well it's not all negative. And I thought it was I want to bring it up as they do mention many ledger in the article itself. So here, I'm skipping a little bit but the most, the most industry transforming use case so far, although perhaps the one with the least sizzle, meaning that it's a very sexy use case might be the many ledger network and it's custodian organization chronicled. So, you don't know already many ledgers working to improve the drug supply chain and you know they're doing pretty good job from what I'm seeing. They're growing CEO is Suzanne Somerville. It is a private blockchain, however, so that is something to consider it's closed permission. But yeah, I think there are pharma companies interested in this sort of model. They're experimenting experimenting with it but some of it is actually in production as well so I don't know if anybody has anything to add to this one. They also talk about ripple a lot in here so. Okay. Those are the articles I had in terms of news and projects there are some five other articles related to like educational nuggets here so more technical. But I think definitely worth a read the first one here is about zero knowledge proofs. You know, this is by a 16 Z, they published this goes into the history of zero knowledge proofs. And it also talks about clocks. So clock is case you all don't know the first big breakthrough was that clock only requires a single universal trusted setup. The initial ceremony in which a common reference string used by provers and verifiers for given zero knowledge proof system is performed. Yes, there's a lot of detailed technical information here that some of you might be interested in I don't know if any of you had the chance to look into it more, but good back on to now. The first one I had here for educational nuggets was related to Ethereum's centralization dilemma so there is talk in the space about Ethereum staking being getting centralized so there is this conversation in the space about how are we going to make the ETH staking more decentralized. So leto one of the one of the most used staking services. So here you can see this graph showing the percentage of staking. I think something is detecting my voice and playing it but apologize that. So here you see leto and orange basically dominating. It's got the most staking balance so this is a concern for theorems for some people. Anyone have any comments on this. I was just going to comment on the fact you had problems with your robot overlords. Yeah, I apologize. Yeah, it looks like leto leads liquid staking with 25% of you to deposits. You can see here some details as well. Next article actually also related to that is about leto's roadmap for decentralization. So this was published April 14. And you know we all know the Ethereum merge is approaching sometime in the summer I think is the target for that. And they are, you know, talking about different ways to make sure that they are decentralized and they're a good validator. Really good stuff in here if you're interested in the technical aspect of staking and theorems decentralization. The next thing here is just actually the last podcast episode I published with Everardo Barajas, he's a CEO of Prescripto, focused in Latin America, and he's been working for a number of years on digitizing prescriptions using blockchain. So it's interesting that his company is using Rex chain as their blockchain portable or consensus mechanism. So I'm not too familiar with Rex chain but I just thought it was interesting and wanted to mention it. And it's something that you guys can listen to in detail if you're interested, especially if you are from, you know, Mexico or Latin America, which is where they're focused. So actually the last item here I had was another a 16 Z article by Jocelyn Pearl about it's a guide to decentralized biotech. So this is sort of like an overview of biotech and how it, you know how some of these companies are trying to make it more decentralized. So it's a platform by the science exchange platform launched in 2011 has greatly improved access to and usage of CROs. Through its marketplace companies can source order and pay for scientific services for more than 3,500 providers, while also reducing the lift, the contract lift normally required. And it does mention lab down, which you may have heard is a, we might have talked about earlier, or, or something that affect our similar company rather lab that was another company working to fill the research access gap. It's building a marketplace where smaller startups and academic researchers can find a micro CROs or contract contract research on a smaller scale to provide services such as bioinformatics analysis, automated cloning and construct design. She admits we're still a long way off from having something like an AWS for biotech, which would be really awesome, I think. And, you know, feasible, I think, but platforms like science exchange and lab now are gradually improving access to contract based research. And to talking about empowering people and talent talks about the decentralized science movement. And how tech PCs have ramped up their investments in biotech, especially startups with younger or less conventional founders. Yeah, so there's definitely an increased interest in investing in these smaller companies. I don't think that will increase. Let me pose a question to the group. Do we think that the level of investment in riskier biotech startups will continue to increase our will there be some sort of, you know, drawback or slow down. So the few companies listed here I think this is pretty good content if you're interested in, you know, decentralized science biotech. It's a good article I thought so wanted to make sure everyone get a chance to look at this, you know, she talks specifically about doubt funded projects, including molecule which I do believe you mentioned today. And yeah, by the doubt as well. I've heard a vital doubt I've heard a molecule I don't know the current status of what what they're working on but it's another good one where, you know, there's a there's a huge regulatory framework around clinical trials in the first place, as well as IP law concerning molecules and how to do it so it's a it's right for decentralization. There is still a lot of regulatory tape they need to like work through. I'm going to read here a major draw of biotech dows, like vital doubt is how quickly they can get work done in the 10 months since its launch of beta Dow has evaluated over 60 research proposals proposals and financed almost $2 million worth of research across 10 projects. That's like taking an NIH research project grant which normally gives one lab $250,000 a year for five years and splitting the money across projects at 60 labs. Another advantage is that dows don't have the same hiring restrictions as traditional biotech companies. This means people with diverse experiences at different stages in their careers can get involved with a Dow, or several if they want, since there's no expectation of exclusivity. The benefits of employment differ from those of a traditional day job, you might be paid in tokens or Ethereum, or even just gratitude versus receiving a salary in us dollars. Those who have the time working for a biotech Dow offers a playground for scientific input teamwork and innovation, and even a place to learn new skills like content in marketing. Interesting. So I do think that most of the research that are using these types of dows are younger researchers, maybe they aren't able to get traditional grants and this is one way they think they could get some funding and they now go for it. So, I think we'll be seeing more of these types of organizations in the future. Thanks so much for sharing this way I haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet, but I'm going to look at it after the meeting looks interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Happy to do it. And that was the last article that I pulled from the last couple weeks. Is there anything people wanted to share with the group here that we didn't talk about yet or maybe something we missed in the last few weeks that you want to share. Open to discussion. Okay. Well, in that case, we can probably give everyone a few minutes back of their day. I think this was a great meeting. Great discussion. Thank you all for your inputs and feedback. And again, the agenda and the links to all the articles are available in the hyperledger conference space. So feel free to reach out. Reach out to me if you can't find it and or you could just probably Google it and find it. So, again, there is an event later today, a T-Mobile 5G and healthcare panel discussion webinar. That might be interesting to you all. So, yeah, really appreciate it and looking forward to. Oh, actually, we, Eric and I were discussing earlier this week about the next meeting and we might both not be able to make it. So the next meeting in two weeks might be canceled. So we might reconvene in a month, but look out for an email from me just to confirm that. And yeah, just wanted to let you all know about that. So thank you. Say again. Is your hand still up? Yeah, I see Jim's hand is still up. I don't know if that was from before. As an accident, they should, they should time out after a while. No worries. All right, well, again, thanks everybody. Appreciate it. And we will look forward to next time. Great job, right? Thank you very much. Thank you all. Take care. Have a great day. Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Thanks so much. Bye. Thank you. Thank you.