 You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I started speaking to the guy and he just stood up and he shot the platoon sergeant and as he stood up, you know, I think I shot him twice in the stomach three times in the chest and he just went against the wall and then a firefight started with the rest of them and they had a machine gun there and they were laying into his and I was against the wall shooting and I could hear a crack in between my legs, I never thought anymore about it. Anyway, the contact finished early in the morning. We'd got the guys and got bodies and whatnot and I went back to the place where I'd shot this guy and what it was, it was a hang grenade that landed between my legs and cracked open, it was the old Mills grenade, the 36 and it cracked open and only the detonator had gone off. What was it like, Peter, to kill a man for the first time? It was nothing to do with, I've killed somebody, it was to do with I haven't let my instructors down, I haven't let my comrades down. I remember one guy was hanging over a bush holding the bush and his brains were blown out, you know, from the back, he'd been shot in the back of the head and it made a terrible impression on me and I looked and I went, I couldn't believe that soldiers could do that to their fellow soldiers. I took a grenade and a pull to pin out and I had a, I saw a machine gun and I just held it in one hand and the guys came up closer and closer and he didn't see me and I stuck the machine gun in his hand, in his stomach and Dave then came up to Hereford, I met him in one of the pubs there and he, he says I've got a job, I says what is it? He says, kill Pablo Escobar and I went, let's go for it, you know. Boomer on, and today's guest we've got SCS hero Peter Macalese, how are you Peter? Good, thank you very much and thank you, it was good to meet you. Yeah, likewise it's Senior Documentary, you are hired by Arrivo Cartel from Escobar to go and kill him, Mad Story Escobar, I think he was supplying 80% of the world with cocaine one of the biggest, probably the number one most biggest villain on the planet one of the richest as well, I think it was about 30 billion but you were chosen to kill him basically, it's a mad man story which we'll touch on but Glasgow Guy as well, Scotty's typical fucking Scotty's nutcase I think we've got here you've been all around the world as well Peter, but SCS trend and there's no fucking about you, some of your videos I've watched in the past I'm not gonna fuck with that guy but first of all how are you Peter? Fantastic, great, life good, as good as can be How are you dealing with the attention after the documentary release? It sometimes gets a bit much, you know, but I can handle it, you know And you've got a book out No Mean Soldier? The book is No Mean Soldier Which we'll plug straight away So people we will leave a link to that to the description for Peter's book give it a read man it's a phenomenal read So I always go back to the start with my guess Peter Where you grew up and how it all began? Well I was born in Shetleston and then you know it was after the war and we'd know where to live and we then we went to live with my grandparents in Camtine and my grandfather found an old building that belonged to Billiney Prison and it was, you know, the people, it was empty so ourselves and a number of other people we just went there and squatted in the building for the best part of eight years they tried to have victories, I was in jail when I was four they tried to jail as a few times, you know and it was funny the people there were fantastic but it was one slum in the middle of a fairly posh district because Ridley at that time was fairly posh, you know How was your schooling Peter? Fantastic, I had a great schooling I went to St Thomas's School in Ridley run by nuns, very, very strict but you know they were interested in you you know and they wanted good scholars Was there many beatings or anything with that kind of stuff back in the day? Yes, I went back to my school about 20 years ago and I stood in the school yard and I burst out crying and it just brought back memories to me of the school, you know, my mates, I was in the football team and then a nun came out to see me she says, can I help you sir? I says yes, I used to go to the school and I'm just visiting she's come into my office, have a cup of tea she made me some tea and we sat there and she brought out a big ledger and she went through all the family names Manti Jean had been there, my brother had been there what years we'd attended then she asked me about what nuns were there when I was there, I said sister Vincent and sister Loyola and she laughed she said if sister Loyola was still alive she'd be had up at the Hague for infringement of human rights it was a good school, I really enjoyed it how was your relationship with the parents, mum and dad? it was strained, my mother tried her best my dad probably in his own way tried his best but he didn't know how to he solved every problem by beating you you got beaten first in any inquiry, came later it was just the way it was, it wasn't just my dad it was a number of people in Glasgow at the same time had that thought pattern was your dad in prison, was he in Berlin or something? my dad got locked up in Berlin and his cell overlooked a building that we lived in and my mother would say, Peter, go out and see your dad's window and he used to put different colours in the window which told my mother how he was feeling he was depressed or he loved her it was a little code they had between the two of them and I'd come back and say it's red or it's blue and my mum would sort of be happier depressed based on that I've been in Berlin as well I was ended up in a D-hole but my mum and dad used to bring my dog up they used to bring my dog up and show me because I'd just got a dog at the time before I got to jail it was a boxer and I was in D-hole but you could see right out to the car park and they used to bring the dog out to run about for 10 minutes it was nuts, just to see the dog I got arrested there once I came back for a redesian leave and they got me for something that I'd done before I went to redesia and I think it was a bit of a sick joke the judge was there with the sort of glasses on the bottom of the face what record does this man have a what record and the lawyer said yes he's a sergeant in the redesian army and he's home in leave a redesian army a redesian army when is he due to go back he says the 26th of August remanded and cursed the day to the 26th of August so I spent my whole leave in Berlin and the best of it was all the guys had been to school we were in there what was that like for you being in the jail Peter and it wasn't something that I just looked at it I think what annoyed me most was coming home and leave and losing it, can you see it and as I say I came out of jail and I headed straight back to redesia I was working for the a guy called Mike McGinnis who ran part of the special branch he sent the money across to get my fare because my ticket had to run out so and I got back to back to redesia and he just said get on with your work where is redesia? well it's Zimbabwe now and you know at that time it was called redesia it was a transition period it became Zimbabwe redesia first and then the doctor redesia off for a little while it was called southern redesia again which was the original name of the colony and then they dropped out and it became Zimbabwe what age did you first join the army was it 16 Peter? no I was 17 what made you join? I'd run away from home and I was working in Aberdeen on the docks and the guy that I used to work with had had a set and he said son get yourself in the army and he impressed me and I went to the recruiting office in Market Street in Aberdeen and I joined the army the guy tried to get me to join the Gordon Highlanders which was a local regiment and I said no I wanted to go to the Paris and he said ok and I joined in the Monday morning and on Friday I was in Aldershot none of the six months stuff that you got today I joined in the Monday and I landed in Aldershot on a Friday what did you run away for Peter? my dad were you scared of your dad? at that time yes and was that a relief for you just trying to get away would you have done anything to get away? no I just had enough of it it wasn't pleasant you know it just he didn't know any better he just you know he felt as if we were at fault because we were born you know what was Aldershot like? young kid 17 was that your first time out of Scotland? I was in the train and it was ok to swear of course it was when I went down the train there was a Scotland in England much taking place down at Wembley and the train stopped and there was this guy running up and down the station with a big Scottish flag going yeah English bastards, English bastards and we were in Custairs I found it really funny I arrived in Aldershot and Aldershot's a very, it's a do-it-town well it was to me and I got there and I arrived at the Parachute Regiment in Depple and I walked in there and it was you know I just felt that he's great everybody was smart everything was done properly and I joined, I got squadded in a platoon and I feel I must talk about this there was a corporal came along and he said hello son, how are you? and he started teaching me to fold my kit and you know get your locker right that your toothpaste goes there, your soap goes there your toothbrush goes there you know so and so and he was very, very he could have been helpful to me in kind and I wrote to my mother I wrote this letter back, mummy this sort of thing the corporal was my best pal anyway the corporal told us and he said we're beginning training on Monday morning and the corporal who was my best pal opened the door through a fucking dustbin right down the middle of the floor and started screaming we were all in a state of semi hysteria and that went on for about 10 weeks you were just changing to PT kit getting the drill kit, getting this you never had a minute to yourself you just put your head in the pillow and you're gone what was the training like then? it was good, it was good very firm and the standard instruction was good and I was very fortunate and the platoon I was in was two old soldiers and they used to help us out quite a bit if you were struggling with something they would help you was it good then, did you enjoy it? were you homesick at any point? no, homesick that was the last thing I thought about was home I just enjoyed it you were getting, you know you although it was strict, it was bearable can you see that? you could see yourself you'd go in the drill square and it was noise you'd call your attention guys coming to your attention at a different time and at the end you could just hear a little click just to get a bang and then you marched and you all you all had that sort of swagger of a confidence, this is over 10 weeks and you started feeling proud of how far you'd come as people quitting, walking out there was an awful lot of people quit a lot of guys got banned but we finished up and we went to Abingdon first and that was like being in paradise because there was a difference in fighting for your food and getting it served to you can you see it was an RAF camp where we did the parachute course and the food there was outstanding then we came back and then it started really picking up your learning we did continuation training and at the end of the continuation training we did a parachute jump the whole platoon and we did a parachute exercise and I found it I just felt I was home what was it like doing your first parachute jump? I still don't know no it was funny I spoke to one of the instructors you're only young and you've got what likes a parachute you know and one of them said son, it's the only time in your life you're going to defecate, urinate and ejaculate at the same time I need to give myself a parachute then Peter where was the first time you went into kind of battle Peter? where did you go and how old were you? I was in Cyprus, I was in 64 and we got bushwhacked on a road and we just drove out and that was the first time I'd actually been shot at and then I went to the SES I'd done an Arabic course by this time and we were coming down a wadi which is a steep embankment type thing and the troops sergeant came up to me and said there's some Arabs there and I looked and I went and we'd met a guy beforehand and he was shouting I said be quiet and we went further down we didn't realise this guy was a lookout for the group and he'd been shouting to wake them up so we got there and we're still sleeping and I just said this doesn't look right you know there was a line in a straight line and I started speaking to the guy and he just stood up and he shot the platoon sergeant and as he stood up I think I shot him twice in the stomach three times in the chest and he just went against a wall and then a firefight started with the rest of them they had a machine gun there and they were laying into his I was against the wall shooting and I could hear a crack in between my legs I never thought anymore about it anyway the contact finished early in the morning we'd got the guys and got bodies and whatnot and I went back to the place where I'd shot this guy and what it was was a hang grenade that landed between my legs and cracked open it was the old Mills grenade the 36 and it cracked open and only the detonator had gone off and I went that was a close one especially in between my legs what was it like to kill a man for the first time? it was nothing to do with I've killed somebody it was to do with I haven't let my instructors down I haven't let my comrades down can you see it? you know you get these the movie image of it and I can only tell you what it was like for me I just knew that I'd proved myself in battle and I felt there was an element of confidence did you sleep okay that night after that? it's never bothered me I've never had that type of thing I've only had it once and it was just in passing you know what was that like for the first time then being in conflict, grenades, bullets that excite you Peter or was it scary? it was exciting and you know because I saw everything coming together you know we'd two guys wounded we'd killed five of them the two wounded men we saw the air force coming in they couldn't pick them up because they thought the sides of the body were too steep then the Navy pilots came in and we got the two guys out you know I could see how the whole thing worked there was aircraft up above you know getting ready to put a strike and should there be any more skirmishes I saw the whole thing being coordinated and coming together which was exciting how old were you then? 22 and this is when you were in the SAS what was the SAS training like then Peter in the 60s? it was fantastic how long did it last? I did one of the longer courses and it lasted for seven months the idea being that they were trying to train us up to squadron level so as we could go and join the squadron and be already trained up without doing courses in the squadron and the imagination it was using the exercises you know for example there was one exercise there where we had to meet agents and they said you better watch it this agent is strong so you're going to have to pump them to get information from them I can remember the guy's name it was Pete May and he was drunk they actually let him get drunk so he had the realism of trying to get information from him and he was stuttering and what not and then he put us on to another agent and then we had to go and pull up a dam and then we went to a third RV an agent was hanging we walked through the door it was like something in a movie there was a full moon and the stiff was hanging from the ceiling just turning around slowly and it couldn't have been more realistic then excuse me we moved off and we were told to be picked up by a submarine round about the Aberystwyth area so we made our way there and that was the the end of the exercise and I tallied up the miles we'd marched 80 miles on that exercise but it was broken up and can you see it there was stages yeah it was fantastic how many people started that course Peter to then who finished how many finished there was 32 started it it was a winter course I did and there was four passed and it was a great feeling you know you could see it people leaving and whatnot and I just I felt extremely proud you know what makes somebody pass those courses what is it what's the four who passed if they all got something the same where obviously you've got that no quit mentality you've got to be kind of fucked up as well and a torment torture but what is the ingredient there for the four people to pass is it well I can really only speak for myself but there was a couple of guys there who were really switched on and they were intelligent one of them came from two para another one came from the Gloucesters and there was one who was a recourse and we all had the same aim in mind we wanted to join the SAS what is the SAS for people who don't know it's a regiment was formed in World War 2 1941 was it yeah it was formed by a guy called David Sterling SAS stands for special air service and they did an awful lot of reading behind the enemy lines along with the long range desert group in World War 2 then they get involved in Europe and finally in France Germany and they worked those areas they were disbanded in 1945 and they were reformed in 4950 and it became it was a territorial unit by then and it became the Malian Scouts and which became the SAS so your territorial Malian Scouts SAS then the SAS was the final name tough bastards aren't they I've spoke to people who've kind of done the courses and what do you think do you know what goes on in the courses now to when it was 40 years ago the big thing is guys got on about it wasn't like that when I was in you know when we did the log race we did it with a log it never gets better but what I do see is some of these young guys that's come in just now no matter how hard you made it they would make it so it's no use saying we were tougher than them and the other thing is the standard of the training now is improved an awful lot you know when there's more depth to it there was certain weaknesses in the SAS when I got there and like the issue and the extraction of orders now some of the guys are outstanding at it you know what was it like then to pass that course you've been in Russia, Colombia you've been all over the world what was the path she's went after you passed the course Peter I then went to I did some time in Aden I did some time in Borneo and we moved between Aden Borneo and the UK we used to come back to the UK for retraining so you do language courses demolition courses medics courses then you'd start the circuit again did you feel confident any was on you went in that you were going to be victorious or did you always feel that you were elite after the 7 months training did you feel totally different was everything sharper I felt a confidence within myself but that's down to the instructors I mean they really put an awful lot of work into us and I was blessed I had good instructors on my course how hard is it to lose people Peter when you're going through these kind of courses when you're in the war zones and you see people getting killed friends of yours is that difficult does that fuel you to keep fighting or does it have a question okay enough's enough no I've never felt like that when I saw a dead guy who was one of my comrades I'd say that could have been me but I'd never went any deeper than that of course you never thought about it much at the time because you were fighting and then it would come along after it you know when you went to the funeral and you get memories of the guy because a lot of people struggle with PTSD when it gets into battle and stuff they really struggle did you ever battle yourself Peter no I've never had a problem like that I don't I've trouble recognising PTSD I'm not saying it doesn't exist what I'm saying is it can get you a pension in the army now and I feel that a few people might think that their army service was a lot harder than it was and it's quite it's quite common I mean if a guy works as a bricklayer and he moves from Birmingham to Scotland to do a job and his wife leaves him you don't blame the company that you work for whereas if it happens in the army a guy gets posted somewhere and his wife leaves him some of them seem to blame the army which I don't think is fair when did you start moving through the ranks Peter because a man figure has got to get to all the accrues that you've had all the medals everything when did you start moving through the ranks and why were you doing that when it came to promotion I was more and more sending me because I couldn't handle drink too well but I was I went to Lance Cople into a fight down to Lance Cople then go to the paris made up to sergeant up to staff sergeant and then I came out of the army and it was just a story of my life I get into more than my share of problems and some of them I'd created myself but you know it was a comeback from something I'd had before was that hard to deal with I found it hard yeah I found it hard to deal with it I don't think I even liked myself why'd you think that was probably something to do with my background as well and I'd never experienced in my younger days is being told well done in the early days in the army I felt that was struggling all the time which I was the SES course to me wasn't easy I personally found it hard not the physical side the behaviour side do you get trained how if deal with your emotions to be more I don't know if it's cold or whatever do you get taught those things in the SES they may do it nowadays but when I was there no I seen a video Peter on YouTube with something to do with Mercer and the killings it actually happened in Angola and what happened I was packed off to a place called San Antonio Desire and I was down there and Holden Roberto who was the president of the FNLA came to see me and he says there's been a massacre done by Kallen who was the guy in charge of the group up at McKella and he says I want you to go and arrest him now it takes an awful lot to make me afraid but this guy was very very wary of him you know he just couldn't work him out you couldn't fathom him out anyway I went there and as I was coming out to land some Americans that were hanging on to Holden Roberto had attached themselves to me and we'll give you cover and all that carry on so I seen a vehicle with four men in it with a machine gun on the back coming towards the airfield and my heart was going BOOM BOOM BOOM and we go to the aircraft and as the Jeep was coming up towards us I noticed that the escort I had had run deserted they've gone and hid in the bushes and I often say as I know how Jesus felt in the garden of Gethsemane you know I was on my own anyway Kallen wasn't there it was a guy called Salmi Copeland so we went back to McKella and I picked up that there had been a massacre and I said to one of the drivers take me to where the massacre was and I drove up and there was a load of Europeans just lying there mowing down there were mercenaries and I remember one guy was hanging over a bush holding the bush and his brains were blown out you know from the back he'd been shot in the back of the head and it made a terrible impression on me and I looked and I went I couldn't believe like soldiers could do that to their fellow soldiers so I got back and I found that Kallen had been captured the guy had organised it all and the guy that actually did the shooting was the guy called Salmi Copeland now Salmi Copeland had a reputation of being a good soldier but I think he'd fallen under the spell of Kallen he was involved in this massacre so Holden Roberto said we've got to do something here so I held a court of inquiry and having been in a few of those things myself in the army against me I had an idea what to do and we got there and everybody gave evidence and nobody held anything back they were right into what Salmi Copeland had done at this stage Salmi he just lost it and he made it, he bolted for it and one of the firing squad that we had lined up we sent him to death one of the firing squad got him as he ran away and brought him down and it was hurtful and Salmi was a good man he just fell under the influence of someone else so you had to kill them how was that then after things like that they just got on with it I looked to the men they'd been with Kallen the whole time and who are these guys Kallen, that's your own men he was in charge it was split into two groups when I got there I was sent to San Antonio Desire and Kallen held a place called McKella now when I got to San Antonio Desire one of the guys said to me he says it's better you're down here Peter I said why he said because Kallen was talking about killing you I said why would he want to kill you he said he saw you as competition and I said I had just accepted it and I got on with what I was doing and as I say I got called up to to sort this lot out up there and I landed and it was the men were fucked it was like I'd seen from the first world war you know black under the eyes and they were exhausted because they didn't know if they were going to live another day now Kallen for all his fault didn't like guts he didn't like bottle you know let's get that straight but there was something loose up top and as I say he got captured and they as I say Sammy Copeland was brought into the frame and as I say he was executed as he ran away and I looked at the men and I said these guys are not capable of fighting so I lined them all up and I said my cousin was in that group and I said please reassure these men that it's not another hatchet man it's come on the scene so he told them and I said right they're good to you they're spent they're finished so I just said who wants to go home and even then you could think there's this guy going to top us if we want to go home I never worked out that way so I got them and I just went get rid of them they're no good they've lost it they've been bullied they've been cajoled terrorised into the deck they're no good and I sent them all home was that man killing his own people? he didn't know how to handle life he'd never been an NCO he'd never been a leader but it'd be wrong to say that he didn't leadership to him was just do as you're told for example one guy turned up and must have prayed late and he just shot on the back of the head it was discipline by fear as opposed to you know leadership it was a shame it really was a shame because it could have worked out better but it just put the kibosh on the whole of it you know when did you get the call that you were wanting to kill Escobar how does a Glasgow boy get that call to kill the biggest drug cartel and the biggest drug lord ever but one of the guys that was in Callan's group was called Dave Tomkins and Dave Dave got blown up there with a Claymore mine and he was in hospital and I went to see him and we just you know we just struck a friend friendship and we always kept contact and Dave then came up to Hereford I met him in one of the pubs there and he he says I've got a job and I says what is it he says kill Pablo Escobar and I went let's go for it you know so how did that start then how did the planning start from that from England to then go to Columbia we flew straight to Columbia and we met up with a guy called Jorge Solcido and he briefed us on what was happening and we went to see two businessmen who in reality were part of the Calli Cartel and there was an on-going battle between the Calli Cartel and the Medellin Cartel and they just wanted Pablo out of the way because he was gunning from them because he wanted the complete show and there was also army involvement in the Jorge Solcido was a Colonel in the army and there was an awful lot of liaison there can you see it consequently when we went to an airport we just walked straight through you know we were stamped everywhere there was no messing everything was laid on and done so there was an army involvement in the background and what it was the intelligence side of the army wanted the two Cartels finished and they thought get them battling each other they might wipe each other out but it was only part of the whole scene it was very deep and they said the first part of it was getting rid of Pablo and there was no messing you know we said we were going to need weapons what weapons do you want we'll have M16s M16s turned up what about rocket launchers we got rocket launchers pistols everything turned up it was like as I say it was like Christmas and we started training and we couldn't train we were in Cali so we took us to a place called the hill outside Cali and it was a big estate there and we just trained on the football going out in the ruby ground doing tactics moving about who does what who goes where and we built a mock-up of the place just with white tape and we just practice and practice and practice and eventually said you know we've got to get somewhere where we can get life firing in and we moved to a place called Lagoagua and we we arrived there and it was ideal straight on the edge of the stream so we had water, we driven and we needed there was a big hut there it was just a hut so which held a whole lot of us and then the next thing we went we hold two helicopters turned up and we started painting them in police and army colours and Pablo had put the word down that don't shoot in army or police helicopters why was that? because it would only bring more heat and so we were using that as part of the way to get into the complex we trained there and we just went on and on and you could see the guys gelling together and I don't forget I had soldiers a lot of these guys before in South Africa and I just see the whole thing coming together it was just, it was fitting in and then we then did a couple of live trace rehearsals wearing all the kit that we'd wear on the target carrying the weapons we would use on the target fire ammunition that we'd use on the target and we just practised and practised and then we got it right and it was in the case of just warming yourself up every day doing a bit of shooting and whatnot getting ready for the strike Dave Tomkins had laced with the bosses they had a spy in Pablo's compound who would let them know let them know when Pablo was there so we waited for a few days and they finally got him in position How many people were in your team Peter? 12 How long does a training take for a job like that? I had 11 weeks and for a man that Pablo Escobar starts to burn then over 400 million a week they say his security must have been tight so how does 12 guys beat security like his? Well for a start we'd all been fighting in Africa against greater numbers than us now you've got to understand a lot of his bodyguards and a lot of his security guys were just guys that ran about with our magazine and our belt and carrying a Newsy or some submachine gun and we went in there we were carrying enough ammunition to kill the best part of 3,000 men we were tooled up to the eyeballs plus the fact we had a helicopter gunship which we hoped would level it all down so the confidence was on our side it was never doubted by any of the men you know did you not have a snitch in the camp there was not somebody's ass collapsed and they wanted out but then sold the story to the press because it was only you and your other man who knew that Pablo Escobar was the target this guy even an Aussie guy I won't say his name he's dead now he first thing he came to me he says my bottle's gone and I says yeah okay and what I didn't want him doing you know you get a guy there you could keep him to the end but he'd lower morale the reason he wasn't gone and he'd feel like shit as well so I got him out the way I sent him back and he was full of promises first thing he did was what he promised not to do went to the press he was one of these guys who wanted to be a heavy combat soldier but not necessary in it on the fringes of it he didn't have to to the press and the television but fortunately he didn't know who the target was so it got us off the hook and then he did an interview later on when he knew who the target was and he did a second one you know how was that for you to somebody you trained and trust to then doing that I felt he betrayed us he betrayed us and I told him so you'll see a rifle there he sent it on to me and he tried to talk to me again I said please don't speak to me you betrayed the guys you were working with we could have all been killed because he wanted his ego fed what have Pablo Escobar got wind of what you were trying to do what would have happened I think he'd probably been prepared for it but so were we we hadn't laid on you know our vacationships we had a tell-star up which all our communications worked through we had a gunship it may have gone the other way but we were depending on the element of surprise which we did have because they didn't know it was coming was there many hits out in Pablo Escobar beforehand I know I think somebody tried to blow up his house or his car but was there many professional hits no no he was doing the professional hitting I think this is over 4,000 bodies he's got I know he killed a lot of people so how does that work then for a British soldier to be going over there to kill someone is that murder or is that a job how does it work I just know there was a million dollars on the guy's head put there by the Americans and the Colombians and I think they looked at it and said let's suck it and see it might save us from losing a couple of guys how much were you getting paid to kill Pablo Escobar you know there was a movie made there and the men there was one guy claiming they only paid 5,000 a month I can tell you they weren't the 5,000 was a down payment can you see that and I know Dave Tomkins well and Dave Tomkins is probably one of the straighter people I've met and I say Dave's got a bit of a background as well but he's always been totally honest with the guys because was someone not told if he could get Escobar's head he would get an extra million was that correct was that the main objective was just to get money get Escobar killed and then no we wanted to kill Escobar the head was a secondary thing you got to kill him first so when you found out Escobar was in his target at the premises what was the plan like for that day the plan was that we'd fly up and by the time we came over there was a range of mountains there by the time we came over it we were 18 kilometers away from the target can you see it and it was a straight running and the other thing is we had to fly low and dodge everything because all the radar operators and the army and the air force were all on the payroll of Pablo so you know we had to nip and dodge out and and eventually cause we bit your crash your helicopter crashed was your helicopter shot down or did it just crash basically in the Andes you get the sun shining behind the mountains and if there's a cloud on the mountains it creates an optical illusion whereas you get a shadow coming down they call it a sucker hole and we flew into what we thought was a re-entrant to get pushed away through and we just ran into the trees somehow I knew it was going to happen and luckily for me I loosened my seat belt and turned around to the guys in the back I said get yourself in the crash position by doing that the helicopter had turned over the blade came through the cabin passed me and chopped a leg off the pilot or chopped his leg and chopped his arm and then the helicopter just went right over smashed through the trees and bored the hole in the ground about the depth of this room what's going through your mind then? Peter, I think you're trying to get a job you think you might be getting a mullying quid to then be lying in the middle of the jungle with dead bodies? I think survival couldn't take it how many people was the 11 of yous on the helicopter? No, there was only four of us on the helicopter another helicopter was at the back where did that go? it hovered up the top and we had an RV over the other side of the mountain because there was a refuelling point as well so they had to go and get fuel and and that I get down and it's funny you know the years before I'd done a combat survival course and the first thing that went through my head the guys went to go to the helicopter I said stop, stop don't get out till the blades stop because the helicopter was turning around the blade and it was chopping the ground and there was also the tail rotor so that's spinning around as well so when everything stopped we got out but we had a load of explosives in there as well one of the things that came into the equation was the fact we could have been blown up um so I was badly shaking and the pilot was down there and Dave Tompkins was trying to get a drip in and I came down with Dave and I tried to get a drip into the guy and I said Dave give me the morphine he was just turning blue I gave him a couple of syrups of morphine all I did was make his death less painful you know how was that then seeing that as well you totally immune to that I think immune would be the wrong word to use I just looked and you know these things happen um you know I just looked and I went poor old tiger so why would you left there alone is that not a rule to never leave a man behind what happened no what happened was I didn't realise how badly in your die was because I was working on the pilot as soon as I came up out of the hole when he died and Dave Tompkins got me out he helped me out I just sat there and I collapsed and I could feel the shock coming on to me and I said to Dave get me a drip and we couldn't get the drip in my arm even collapsed so I just busted drip open and drank it straight from the the container does that work it helped but it's not as good as getting into the vein you know I lay there and I says I'm not gonna make it I was in agony and I said to Dave and the other two I says get down the bottom get some help and I suddenly when they left I suddenly realised that I'd broken one of the rules of combat survival someone should have stayed with me and anyway they went away and I said I'm on my own and they caught me onto a ledge and I lay there the pain was fucking excruciating you know it was painful and what the guys had done they'd brought all the bandages and what not from the medical pack which was in the chopper packed them all around me to sort of get some form of heat and I lay there and it was it was just painful and then as it turned dark you know the mental gymnastics come on I started thinking what the fuck am I doing here you know how did I get myself into this shit and I say that the pain was there and I I crawled along and I got a can of beans and I managed to get it opened and I ate some beans I was getting some food into me and I lay there and the next morning there was a helicopter flying over the top and I ended up trying to get me and it was George Horthier as I told you he was trying to reassure me that everything was in action but I didn't know I could just see the chopper and I lay there that night and I was cold, cold don't forget we were 9000 feet up and then I heard some voices coming I didn't know there were good guys and bad guys all I heard was Spanish and I went how do you handle this I said if the bad guys get me they will make my death very very painful so I took a grenade and I pulled a pin out and I had a a machine gun and I just held it in one hand and the guys came up closer and closer and he didn't see me and I stuck a machine gun in his hand in his stomach and he went Ricardo, Ricardo, Ricardo that was Horthier Saucido's codename and I went oh so they got round me and they said right we are going to get you down I said how far are we they said 8 hours so they chopped a tree down no problem, cleaned all the tree off so it looked like a telegraph pole so they strapped me onto the telegraph pole and they lowered it down the re-entrant and they lowered me down in a rope which was phenomenal and then they did it all the way down and they got us to the bottom of the mountain so we stopped that night and they said how far they said 4 hours right so we've been going for 8 hours you know anyway I got there and I went these guys are really nice guys and the next thing I knew they were splitting up I had to skate money on me they'd been in my bag and they were in the processor robbing me what happened then I just spoke to them there was nothing I could do about it you know how much is a life of so we got up the next morning and we carried on how long 4 hours how long 4 hours and eventually I seen a hose pipe running down the stream I said we're getting near life and there was just this little hut there and the people were prepared for me you know I got there and a woman came and she gave me a cup of coffee and it was thick thick black coffee and I just drank it and there was a bed there it was made out of sacking you know I was just laying this bed I passed out for maybe an hour or so and she said the helicopter's coming the helicopter's coming to pick me up the helicopter was landing on top of another hill so I declaimed this hill and the guy was shoving me from the back I said shove shove you know hold on to it was just a bare hill I got to the top they let me go on a road bike down the hill again haha so I'm back at the bottom of the hill I can laugh about it now but it was when I think about it it was funny because I was just barreling around so eventually I got up they took me to a hospital I got in the helicopter they took me to a hospital there was any amount of doctors room and they said they wanted me out because the bandidos were looking for me well they knew there was somebody injured and and I went back to Cali and I got into the room and it was I just lay there for about a week and the men were awful good to bring me in tea and meals and that but I was just completely covered in bruises you know and lucky enough I never had stove chest you know it's where you're crashing something and your body goes forward and it stops but your lungs, your heart and everything are travelling forward and it causes a deep bruising which could kill you so I never had that but it looked like I was blue you know how was that faring for getting a mission and faring we spoke about it and Dave came in and I said right Dave he says as soon as we can we're going back Dave was very positive and I said okay so um we decided to have another go then things were getting too hot the the police in the army had picked up there was all sorts of accusations of getting made who was behind it and they just said I think we better come back to the UK how was that for you coming back after the whole rat experience I don't know honestly I was just glad to get back what year was this Peter it was 92 I think and Eskibar was killed 1993 what was your life like how long did you stay we all read the army by then so this was just like a special assignment kind of thing you know I couldn't resist a challenge you know they use the word mercenary but you know if somebody asked me if I go at something I would consider it what year did you leave the army I left the I left the south afghan army you know the British the British in the south afghan army I left there in 84-85 what was that like leaving Peter I never liked leaving but it was time to leave Africa it was folding up and I did the right thing for my family what was the biggest battle you've been in a place called Chamoyo in Rhodesia what was that like well the parachute had 188 in top of 5000 men and it was going it went on for two days and there was quite a bit of killing went on we had them beat because we'd an awful lot of assets up in the sky can you see we'd canbers and whatnot but there was a there was an awful lot of ground fighting done you know we lost a couple of guys did you enjoy that on the ground fighting shootings, bombings you know any soldier who wants to be a soldier any guy who wants to be a soldier and doesn't want to fight is in the wrong place you know you often hear it said what is the job of the infantry the infantry's job is through fire and manoeuvre to close with the enemy and kill them can you see that I never brought those words out it was the British army now if you say that what's that like being on the ground when you're hearing people screaming and seeing people dying is that hard Findo no I always felt that with me I can only speak for myself here I I was just saying thank god it's not me you notice the word god was slid in there as well did you not say when you crashed the helicopter while going to kill Escobar you didn't say when you were lying to yourself were you not praying at one point honestly I'd have no it's not a problem for me to talk about it and I tried to make a deal with god you know being a good Catholic boy oh in god if you get me out of this one I'll try and be a better person um it was I think it was the beginning of me company terms with myself you know the people could say the final thing was on the mountain in actual fact it wasn't it was in a pub what happened? I seen a lot of people drinking it was at a funeral and everybody was turning nasty and I used to love drinking I loved it and I just looked and I went this is not for me anymore and I just put the glass down and I walked away and there was no struggle there was no shakes and like you know how you see these stories about guys we drink problems I just stopped and before I knew where I was I chocked up a year, two year I think I'm into nine years now and I found with the pubs and the alcohol being out of the way I was getting more clarity and thought and more mind and there was an awful lot of introspection went on you know and now I look back I've had broken marriages you know I've been locked up I've made an awful lot of mistakes in my life but to be here where I am today the only contributed towards it for example I got locked up once and I don't think you know if I could meet the georgies that sent me away a cheeky sand and I'll tell you why I don't think it was a thing to get this dog off the streets I think it was a case of get this man some thinking time can you see it and I it made me think got me interested in other things because I had to things that I liked in life at that time was womanizing and drinking so it made me to straighten me out an awful lot and then when the final crunch came I just never bothered me anymore and to be where I am today I feel fantastic I live in a little flat I'm happy with my neighbours I get on well with most people it's a fantastic feeling what do you think you are battling with in life myself my biggest enemy was a guy called Peter McLeese the man in the mirror the man in the mirror and how he was going through all that because you know you've been in Russia as well what was that like I really enjoyed Russia because it's a place that was out of bounds to us can you see it and I got there and there were certain things I couldn't understand people there were drinking at 10 o'clock in the morning and we had two guys who used to look after the Ranges now in the British Army and there were retired soldiers in the British Army the guy who normally looks after the Ranges is a retired soldier exactly the same but maybe a sergeant or a sergeant major's rank in Russia these guys were colonels one of them had flown a yak bomber you know the fighter bombers and they were there and I was really taken by these guys and the one that they'd been in the infantry he says when Germany surrendered I thought it was great we're going to get home he says he shipped them to the other side of the country to go and fight the Japanese and I really enjoyed the company so I bought them a big massive bottle of vodka and they don't talk about the Second World War they talk about the Great Patriotic War and this bottle had been specially made for it it was a two litre bottle so I took it and I said thank you very much don't off it straight away you know they just downed it at the vodka and then he went come on he gives somebody a bottle of vodka you've got to have a drinker at yourself and I've never been one for drinking in the morning but I see there's a better do it in case I upset them did you ever go back home seal it once you were in the SCS being one and out of just being the four who passed did you ever go back home and get the praise I was the people happy for you I went back there and it was funny I bought this Volvo and I went back to Shetlison and the guys in the pub were going Peter Maitley's turned up a big fucking massive car so he's doing well for his seal which was good you know and I felt good about it so I then went out to see my mate in Easter house and he's dead now so and you know how you get name plates on your door in Glasgow he didn't have a name plate an envelope that had been posted to me two pins in it come on in Peter Maitley you know his real junk and by the way my big car I get there and the sweet boy comes up hey mister I says I can I look after your car you know standing there with one of those can opener ready scratching I says yes how was your relationship with your dad while going through all this Peter he according to what my sisters say he was always checking up on me I think Peter's there he'd look at things but he just couldn't bring himself to ask me anything can you see it to tell you that you loved him it wasn't him I think my sister puts it better than me I was just a guy I just packed my bags and went and I don't know what it was I don't know why he couldn't do it but I learned an awful lot from my father one I've never beaten my children two you know I think about things beforehand like I remember once I was told to smack my son and I went no I can't do it he'd been naughty but I couldn't bring myself to do it because with my dad he got beaten first and then the inquiry came later I think that's what fuelled you to have a lot of fights and anger like your younger years and going through life I think maybe it's so easy to blame something I think it contributed it was it yeah but it was just a way people were in Glasgow I mean has it changed any I don't know it's still quite tough place I think it's calmed down a lot more it was a murder capital Europe for a long time and then obviously it changed I don't know I think people it's just tiring being angry all the time it's tiring being full of violence and hate and rage you know I used to go into pubs and all of a sudden the pub wouldn't have anybody in it and it was nothing to do with me being tough it was to do with people saying do I really need to drink alongside this maniac can you see just go somewhere else how did your book No Mean Soldier come about Peter um a guy called Mark Bless that's his pen name approached me I was in here for the weekend I'd like to write a book with you and we just developed a friendship and writing the book it was some of the most fun I've ever had I was still drinking at the time and one day we drunk nine bottles of wine we were sitting there and he'd say right Peter what happened then and I I'd tell him about a certain character in Panama and he'd come across with this glass with a nub rail in it you know and he'd say yes so and so and so sleaze rolled up Crockets in Miami Vice Dale I went yeah he knew and he'd get me going I'd wake up in the morning Mark was lying on the floor and I was lying like that and I think what I'd done I'd pushed over a bottle of wine and it was a bottle falling that woke me up you know and they'd to use the deoxy and I had a move on me like a badger bum you know what's the name No Mean Soldier come from you know people often ask me this and but you get the scathing type you know mean who does he think he is and actual fact it comes from the Bible and Saint Paul was getting interrogated by the Romans and they said who are you he says I'm Paul a citizen of Tarsus No Mean City now in 1935 was two guys their name escapes me at the moment wrote a book about Glasgow and what went on and they called the book No Mean City so No Mean No Mean Soldier just means a soldier from Glasgow it doesn't mean they say I'm a mean bastard I would say you heard me you fucking you can tell that you're the kind of guy who would foley orders from you you can tell that there's no money made like that who can block out what you went through and what you've done like and just still kick on and still be laughing you know what fuck it it's life you took that on to join the army and you foleyed everything by the book and done what you could to be the best soldier that you could be and that takes a lot of fucking courage everybody sees word differently but you were there to do what you wanted to do and how it was what's your worst experience Peter in the army I think army wise the worst experience I had was being on the hill when I crashed army wise it was me and a guy who will call the posh jock because I'm not allowed to use his name and we were we jumped into a place called Tenby right up in the Mozambique the other side a Kuborobasa and we jumped in and this guy had his pin down in the trench and he was up on the hill there was a hill behind us that way he got it so we sat this way and curled our knees up on the top of the trench he was shooting shooting away the top of the trench and I went fuck I said I'm going to get this bastard Steve he said stay where you are this chap knows what he's doing you know anyway we stayed there and it calmed down so some of the squadron had come up level with us and we got out and this guy started on us again and this time Steve hung back the whole place was ablaze the whole camp and Steve hung back and the smoke tried to get him but he couldn't get him which had best experience for excitement just in general you think I'm living or I'm doing well for myself for a moment that you felt proud or happy my first operational parachute jump had my second sorry it was at Chamoyle the first one was an insertion at night time it was a free fall insertion and the second it was the third one we jumped into Chamoyle and as we were flying in there was an awful lot of flak coming up at the aircraft and the pilots just kept turning and kept on going and I said to myself Peter this is the ultimate test that you've wanted to do all your life is to jump into action and I'm not exaggerating that's what I genuinely felt because the briefing we'd had was outstanding the preparation we had was outstanding you know when we jumped in there we were going in there to destroy the enemy can you see it there was no there was no ifs or buts about it and there was a confidence there with the squadron what do you think you was in conflicts now Peter they don't solve anything is that what you've learned all the years all the battles and conflicts you've done they don't solve a thing these place places are still at war if you're looking back at it all would you change anything sitting here today no because my army career wasn't all blood and guts I mean I made some mistakes in the army like what well I got to the Redesion army and I I laid into your sergeant one day and I had to do it because my pride was on the line and I got locked up for it and and I just looked and I said to myself you know I would have been as well leaving then can you see it because I just never featured as well as I could have done or should have done can you see it because I was worried about getting things wrong all the time or saying something wrong you know how does it affect family life Peter going through war zones and battling and all the time well I was very lucky I had a good army wife and she stuck by me all the time I was talking earlier on to to you and I was running through a camp in Angola and there was bullets flying all over the place and I went, Jane made this possible she never ever messed about with my head in the army and on the same trip I'd seen a big paratrooper coming into the office and he was finished his wife had been messed about he found out about it and he was just he just wasn't there anymore can you see it does that happen a lot though that really fuck the men's mindsets if they are going into war and they find out their missus is cheating or some sort of pain back well there's nothing you can do about it because you're there and you can't do anything until you go back and it's not at your all the time if you were back at home you could either talk a thing over and call it quits or call it quits what do you miss the most Peter comradeship the brotherhood I and the men I mean when I was some major the pathfinders when I was a some major pathfinder most rewarding job I ever had they were up to everything you know they'd pull any strokes they could but when it came to the reckoning they were almost there do you feel as if you looked after after everything you've been through once you came out the army no why is that the armies the British armies it's not geared along those lines it's not like other armies I mean all you gotta do is look at the streets see those guys sleeping on the streets they can say well they turn to the drink and so on and so on they can use all the excuses they want the fact is they're not too kind to their own after the leave and that's what I genuinely feel it's never happened to me but you know when I see these guys I but again there's an element within them is out to get what they can out of the army but the army judges everybody that's out on that small element and I feel that they could look after their ex soldiers a bit more I'm not saying molly curdle them I feel they could make a greater contribution yeah because we do a lot of homeless work in Glasgow and a lot of ex forces and it's sad because they just don't know how to deal with it some just fail off in a lot it's difficult to get back but if you're willing to fight for someone then if people are willing to go to war for whatever then they should be willing to fight for them when they come back I we spoke earlier on about it see a guy's working on the building site or he's a brickie or he's a painter or he's something and he's working at home and all of a sudden he goes to do a job in Scotland and his missus goes astray or has an affair with someone else he doesn't turn around and blame his employer the employer's got nothing to do he's only the guy that gave him a job but people tend to blame it on the army and I think this is totally unfair because the women know what they're getting herself into and the men should get them mentally prepared for when they come in so you get a lot of guys here I was watching telly one night with my son and there was a guy there with a bottom lip trembling you know and my wife left me I said before he said it I said his wife left him and the sob story comes along going to bed at night with a knife by his side I'm not saying it doesn't happen I take myself as the average soldier and if anything else maybe I've been blessed I don't know do you mess up yes it was a sense of purpose you know honour devotion to duty you know it may not always get carried out in the army but there's a code of honour there can you see it people break that code of honour I'm not saying they don't but at least there's a code going forward through future Peter watch your plans would you see yourself doing you're going to be doing talks another book possibly a film I'd like to write another book and I'd love to do some talks I've done a few up until now and they've been fairly successful but I'm very bad at I'm not good at peddling myself I'm not a good salesman of myself but things like this helping obviously with the documentary The Killing of Escobar Paul Donnelly who played your part I know Paul Wellow he's a family friend for over 20 years Paul actually done me a few favours when he was a bouncer back the day he helped us out a lot that's a great documentary so even being on here today we'll open up doors for people wanting to get involved you're a great speaker clearly lived the life clearly no f**king about with you like I said I'd imagine people would respect you highly in the army and stuff like if you said something then it would have to get done or else I don't think you'd have took that lightly I was very fortunate I had a son major when I was in the British Army who I can only describe as an out and out bastard and I said to myself if I ever get in that position I will never treat men like that and I never and very fortunately I could always persuade the men to get things done and as I say the pathfinders they were wild, they did older you know some of the things were appalling to the South African Army but they weren't scared of a fight just before we finish up do you have any regrets Peter? not one that's if I'm coming on a day and telling your story I've thoroughly enjoyed that and all the best for the future Peter thank you very much