 So, how do you talk product-oriented companies about services and service design? That's one of the questions I got from Matthew, who's part of my selling service design with confidence scores and it's a great question as I've heard it a lot and a lot of people seem to struggle to sort of convince product-oriented companies and it can be physical products or software products on the value of services and on the value of service design. So that's exactly what I want to address in this video and the answer to this is of course it depends. How do you talk to a product-oriented company or somebody who has a really strong product-oriented mindset? Well, I'm going to give you an example which works really well for me if I'm talking to somebody who's interested in the finances or the business proposition of a product-oriented company and in that case I talk about two things. When I talk about services compared to products and to money, one of the things I like to address is that services give you a competitive advantage compared to products as services are by their very own nature much harder to copy for competition. Every service requires some kind of human interaction or at least there's a much bigger human interaction part in a service than there is in a product. So that makes services much harder to copy for your competition. That's one thing and the other thing is that services, people tend to pay way more for services compared to products. Just think about if your car breaks down or if your tire runs flat, you'll much likely pay much more or premium for somebody to fix your tire than the actual tire itself, the cost of the tire itself. So there's a big business opportunity for actually delivering services on top of products and this is not new, of course we all know this but somehow people tend to forget this. So again, how do you talk to product-oriented companies about services really depends on who you are talking to but if you need to make a business case for service design I'd say services help you to gain a competitive advantage as they are much harder to copy and customers tend to pay more for services so there's a great opportunity to make a larger profit. I'm really interested in how do you approach conversations with product-oriented companies? What do you say to get them excited about services and service design and maybe also what challenges do you see? Leave a comment down below and let's see what you all come up with. If you enjoyed this video don't forget to share it with somebody who might also benefit from what we are discussing here and thanks for watching and I'll see you in the next video.