 Study session. I'd like to now call the meeting order. Let's go ahead and start with the roll call Mayor Bagley here Councilmember Christensen here and all the fairing here Martin here peck Rodriguez here waters here Mary. You have a quorum. All right. Great. Let's say the pledge eventually Indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right anybody on council have any okay, I do okay all right Councilmember Edogell fairing. Let's rock it. What's up? So I? Had been reflecting a lot on what councilmember waters had said in regard to looking at preschool or any in the rec center as far as having school school board or school district support and something that I would really like to Direct staff to and see if it's it can gain some some traction as far as interest in our in our council to have a Board to council Meeting so something like legislative dinner where we were able to come together as two elected groups elected official group capacity and be able to discuss Needs and priorities. Yeah, stuff. Yeah Harold Councilmember logo faring mentioned this to me. I think it's a great idea. Can we actually set up a time for? That's awesome. Good. Good job. Thank you All right anything else? Calcimer Calcimer Christensen Excuse me councilman waters and I went to the Longman Housing Authority today and they expressed an interest Not maybe immediately because their children still gathering information, but Sometimes soon in sitting down and discussing Issues with the city and Longman Housing Authority so that we could have a better relationship I don't think this will be useful unless I mean I do think this will be very useful, but I also think it's essential that their Investment Board also sit down with us So that we have all three bodies So I would like to direct staff to explore that possibility Over the next few months I think that's a good idea, too So can we do that too? Cool All right Back So first of all, I want to apologize for being late. I was so intrigued with this packet. I lost track of time I would like to direct staff to Bring back our conversation about who we're going to put on the LHA board I don't think that we ever ratified that as a council. So we need to bring that back as to who Who we're going to put on the board? LHA well, I think we did ratify it the third member, right? I haven't appointed anybody. Oh Well, let's bring it back and appoint somebody so we can But I don't want to point anybody yet Okay We can vote you guys and talk about it. I mean we put on the agenda I just don't want to maybe let's talk offline. Okay, but I don't but we can we can talk offline, but they don't okay Yeah, so But the and I was and I understand that we have to ratify do that. Yeah All right, anybody else dr. Waters Thanks, very badly. This is not given directing the staff and I'm gonna do this You speak in your mic. Yeah, I just am mindful of the But I'll do it now rather than later in the meeting In our last I think it was the last time we met I commented on a March 13th event Where the governor was going to be in town and with a round of breakfast with the focus on early childhood education both His agenda and what we're doing just late today. I guess we got an email number of us From his office that there was a snafu in terms of scheduling and their office They're now talking about the 27th of March And I'm certain that's gonna have to be confirmed but that's the date they offered so I know Invitations went out to a bunch of people today Inviting them to an event on March 13th trying to get ahead of this. So if anybody got an invitation They'll get a second invitation saying whoops Without finger pointing just whoops and then asking people to hold the date for the 27th and hopefully We could secure the museum that date Which is the venue we were going to use on the 13th just so and all the council members would be invited What what time will that be? It'll be a at least the initial Event was scheduled to be to start at 7 30 in the morning with a breakfast and run through 10 o'clock in the morning I know it's a long stretch But the governor comes at nine. There's a couple of things we wanted to do ahead of time including sharing the No small matter video, so okay. I there's a flat power Herald there's a flat river power authority board meeting that morning So just something we have to talk about Just figure out how to coordinate this because I'd like to be at both. So but the governor is probably more important so All right, anybody else All right, cool. Let's move on. All right. Let's go. I don't have the public invite. All right. Thank you Cool beans. All right, let's move on to public invited to be heard Just a quick reminder everybody gets three minutes three minutes. Don't care if we love it hate it We're gonna have to shut you up But please address the chair If anyone's gonna yell yell at me, I guess is kind of the norm So let's go ahead and start with Scott Cunningham if as people come up if you could State your name and address for the record that'd be great My name is Scott Cunningham. I live in Denver 37 71 South Narcissus Way Denver 802 3 7 and I'm a I'm an integrative physician here to address the kind of the 5g Sort of thing can I start you can go ahead? All right. Well greetings, mr. Mayor and esteemed members of City Council and other stakeholders from the community at large Thank you for this opportunity to address the council We are here to add to the ongoing discussion about the health effects of certain features of Longmont's excellent Telecommunications infrastructure and we hope to provide direction to the council To make decisions for this beautiful city based not only on expedience and appeal to popular demand But also based on appeal to a robust scientific literature that as you'll see Demonstrates that wireless forms of telecommunication infrastructure are overtly harmful to any biological system ever tested We want to start by applauding the city of Longmont For having the vision to put into place the most advanced fiber network In the country as I understand In keeping with this overall vision for safe and highly efficient connectivity We'd like to encourage the council to continue to expand on The excellent fiber optic system now in place using fiber optic devices Rather than the more archaic wireless devices Accordingly as the blazing one gigabyte per second two-way download speed of Of your city-wide fiber optic system is well known We'd like to focus briefly on the particular disadvantages of Wireless elements seen in older telecommunication systems Before we jump into the scientific analysis of these Technologies, we'd like to provide a cliff note style description of elements of the wireless system under consideration in order to facilitate Unity in our understanding Not only for city council members, but also for community stakeholders in attendance this this evening a Cell tower or I should tell this to my patients a cell tower or other wireless facility of any type is basically a two-way radio station for your cell phone with an important difference and The difference is cell towers cell phones and smart meters use microwaves To talk to each other and yes when we say microwaves. It's the same Two-point we're talking about this just before we start here the same 2.45 gigahertz Radio frequency waveform used by the microwave oven on your kitchen counter Is that it that's it? Okay, but thank you. We have your this is your handout right here, right? The dangers of 5g we'll read through it. Okay. Thank you, sir All right, Doe Kelly. I'm a lot shorter than he was I'm doing part two of this and my name is not Bill Kelly. It is Doe as in Doe a dear Kelly Okay, did you want my address? I'm a long montian That I've never made anyone give their address. I just asked for it, but okay, you're long montian welcome I'm a long montian although. I prefer long monster. Okay, so we were talking about the The 2.45 gigahertz radio frequency waveform used by the microwave oven hold on one second. I'm sorry It's a new system. Can you please start again? I'm sorry. Yeah, we're talking about can I start yep 2.45 gigahertz Radio frequency waveform used by the microwave oven on your kitchen counter if you have one which I don't if you are surprised By this please know that many people are not even aware of this In fact, we felt it was important to provide Credible documentation of this which you will find on page two of this report here So let's talk about the elephant in the room here What do scientific studies say about the effects of microwaves on biological systems? It turns out the microwave radio frequency used by cell towers and other wireless devices including wireless smart meters Has been scientifically demonstrated to cause numerous harmful effects to any biological system ever tested And we have tens of thousands of studies and by we I'm saying science It turns out the microwave radio frequency used by cell towers and other wireless devices Including wireless smart meters has been scientifically demonstrated to cause numerous harmful effects to any biological system ever tested and we have tens of thousands of studies Including a few that are mentioned here Where researchers found DNA strand breaks in brain cells? loss of spatial memory reduced cognitive function alteration of several reproductive parameters Alterations in the elemental composition of teeth and multiple pathologies in rat kidney and bladder tissue Most of these studies of course are animal studies Since it would be unethical to subject humans subject humans to a technology that has never passed animal safety testing Nonetheless, we do have some limited human observational population studies At the bottom of the page is a review which demonstrated that eight of ten Epidemiologic human studies reported increased prevalence of adverse neuro behavioral symptoms or cancer In populations living at distances less than 500 meters from cell towers How many of us live less than 500 meters from cell towers? That means that you could live as far away as 500 meters from a cell tower Which is about a quarter of a mile and you are still at risk for neurological symptoms or even cancer And I have the neurological symptoms myself When next light installed the new wireless in my living room and I became electro sensitive So now before we go into more detail about particular wireless technologies It's important to note that the various devices and facilities that utilize wireless connectivity Whether cell towers cell phones Wi-Fi routers or wireless smart meters. All right. Thank you. He'll figure the next. All right It looks like Ken Andrews. I'm Mia Begley and council members. My name is Ken Andrews I live in Lafayette, but I spent a lot of time coming to Longmont because why wouldn't you so I'm gonna Continue on here. This topic is really important to me. It's my wedding anniversary today and I'm here So it must be important So just a word about 5g which is shorthand for the fifth generation wireless telecommunications infrastructure Turns out that 5g infrastructure utilizes two features that are fundamentally different from the current 4g infrastructure First whereas the 4g system utilized microwaves 5g utilizes a specialized form of microwave called millimeter wave It's difficult to find scientific studies of millimeter wave radiation But we were able to locate a 1977 Russia review of seven studies There was apparently not made public until the CIA declassified it in 2012 the abstract reads and parts studies Conducted in humans and animals revealed that millimeter waves caused changes in body in the body manifested in several Orations in the skin and internal organs including myocardium, which is the heart liver kidneys spleen bone Marrow lymphatic system central and atomic nervous system, which is basically the brain and the spinal cord Hadrenal cortex and thymus so quite a bit second using Longmont Civic Center as an example the current 4g system in place Utilizes a total of nine towers within a two mile radius of this building along with a total of a hundred and seven in Tenner locations per antenna research comm the proposed 5g system requires small cell densification of Transmission facilities meaning placement much closer together Some are sorry authorities say as close as every second or third house a much more conservative estimates suggest that carriers would be placing 165 new 5g small cells within a two mile radius of this building So in summary the microwave radiation used by all wireless systems has been implicated in numerous scientific studies as an agent of harm to biological systems The 5g system proposed by the telecommunication companies if deployed as wireless infrastructure Requires the use of millimeter wave radiation with a grotesque densification of small cell transmission facilities In keeping with the community's overall vision for safe and highly efficient connectivity We'd like to encourage the council to expand on the excellent fiber optic network system now in place I'll leave you with this next light is the best fiber optic system in the world Now is the time for decision-makers makers in this forward-thinking city to make choices that keep Longmont on the cutting edge With the ultra-fast fiber optic connectivity rather than harkening back to the early era of slower and much more dangerous wireless facilities If the council sees the need for direction navigating into Longmont's bright future We would suggest utilizing an internationally recognized authority on emerging safe high-performance connectivity Such as Colorado's own Dr. Tim Shackley. Thank you Thank you, sir Marilyn Just says Marilyn Well, that's because my name is Mary Lynn. So I apologize for poor Although I don't mind being called Marilyn. Yes. Yes. I'm just here to underscore the fine presentation Created by dr. Cunningham and to thank Longmont for for being visionary in 5g and to ask city council to Please consider having a study session with non-industry experts both Legislative and in terms of health who can get the council up to speed on the work of activists especially a core in Boulder County who are working to change the Small cell regulations which were recently shoved down everyone's throats by the FCC and to get behind a movement to return various kinds of Home self-determination to communities when it comes to deciding whether or not to allow in some of this infrastructure And where it cited. Thank you Thank you, and I'm a long monster. All right It looks like I want Curtis. Is it Ruzo? How's everybody doing this morning? Sorry Can you get the people that mic up? My name is Curtis to Ruzo. I'm 48. I've lived here in Longmont for Probably about 20 years if not a little less or a little bit more. I've had apartments here I work here. My doctors are here Everything I know is here in this town Everything has gotten so expensive That I cannot afford To pay rent. I live in my motor home on the side of the road. I never cause any problems I've stayed in contact with Sandy and Tim Waters throughout maybe about the last eight months or so and along my police department as well There's some good people out here that are living in their motor homes on the side of the road and We would just like to have a safe place to be able to park I figured that if we were all together in one spot that everybody would be able to be watched and Everybody would have to follow the rules I do fine on my own. I've got my pride. I do not want to apply for housing I do not use food stamps or leap or churches or anything like that Everything that I do I do on my own. I follow the rules I go to the Boulder County fairgrounds do all my dumping. I've got all my tickets saved I've got cameras on the motor home to help protect myself against some of the population you know I'm just saying just give us a chance. Don't give up on us You know, there's some really good people out here that really need this and I'm taking full advantage of it. So, you know, it's it's too late for me to You know get a finance on a house or $50,000 a year job, you know, so I just want to say thank you for letting me speak and I hope that you guys will come up with us a good solution for us Thank you. Thank you curse Glenn Davis. Hi, I'm Glenn Davis. I'm from Longmont and like heard I'm a full-time RVer And I have noticed some of the people that if you use some of the parking lots in Longmont such as Walmart have left Traces behind and that the main thing that I want to put out there is that a lot of us are into No trace left behind and actually cleaning up and following the rules and we're not trying to inconvenience anyone and we're Just an alternative lifestyle and I would appreciate any help that we could get for direction on Where it would be legal for us to park. Thank you. Thank you I've been done Evan Okay Julie Marshall Good evening. No, I'm not a long monster, but I am a transplant Julie Marshall here. Oh, sorry. Oh, that's okay. The timer thing is a little bit No, it's it's go ahead. Um, I pride myself in being an American I have been titled homeless for five years plus now. I've lived in an RV now currently Also on the side of the road I do take responsibility of my dumping legally and safely I Have also lived in a vehicle. I know what both gambits are. I have also lived on the streets I did three weeks in Skidwell LA and another three weeks in Venice I've been in an island on New York. I have developed I had developed lymphatic cancer by drinking the contaminated water coming out of who's it falls up there I moved back down here and Thankfully I have now cancer-free However, I don't choose to pay rent I don't choose to pay somebody else's mortgage, but I don't live off of social security disability I struggle to find jobs where I can because I am handicapable. I have a lot of structural damage in my back I have a mental capacity, but that mental capacity has a three-month time span I've suffered from traumatic brain injuries my Handicapabilities are just that they're abilities But I have those that limit me to being able to function in norm normal mainframe society I get antsy with this I sit in the back of the room because you know I get antsy but I Have done security Pinkerton and sex security in California and Colorado, and I have been acknowledged by the White House I Don't deserve this and I've already been criminalized down in Colorado Springs because I was parking on the street And they made it illegal. I am not a criminal I'm an American citizen that deserves to have my own home and that home is my choice and that is a motor home It is deemed a recreational vehicle, but it is not I don't go out and have a good time with it I live in it. It is my home. So I deem it a motor home. We do need a place to park We need a larger place that we can self-martial. We can keep an eye on each other and we can see but say I'm 20 years sober and I have 35 years off of math. Thank you very much. I won't talk to the crap again There are a lot of us out there that are like that. We are not criminals. We are not drug users And we're not drunks. We just want a peaceful and safe place to live Your safe lot program could abide by that. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Marshall I'm gonna slaughter this one Darlene and then could you just come up and tell me what your last name is? Not even gonna try. Just call me Darro. Darro? Okay Okay, well, I live in an RV too. I live in a 2013 Ford majestic pure white and I bought it $27,000. I've been homeless. You can start over. Oh, yeah, great. I'm just this this this system I can't see the clock. So I keep forgetting. Okay, go ahead. Okay, so I Bought it. I've been homeless for seven years. I've lived in the churches. I've lived In my van for four years three years ago. I bought this RV me and my three sons live in it and We house other people in it also if they have a night overnight to stay I can cook and clean I work hard. I've driven the bus in this town for 31 years for homeless and helpless people I'm a good person Well, I think I'm good, but anyway, so so and I am I I volunteer for the recovery cafe and I also sing in the Longmont corral and Our next next next performance is March 15th And we're going to honor the veterans. So anyway I didn't got no place to go except my RV and my sons had got no place to go My son Rory he went down to coordinate entry three years ago when they first opened it up Where is he he's sleeping in the back of my van? Why? Because they never called him. They don't they don't bother. They don't help him He has two blown-out knees. He has he has COPD. He also has He also has mental problems and just one week ago one week ago. He's in a recovery program and And he's going to mental health one week ago mental health called him and said well, we put you on a What do they call it? The list lottery we put you on a lottery list after three years three years a lottery list That's what they do. That's what it's like living out here. I've had to call David Kennedy Because people blow their horns They treat us a mean and they have no respect for us at all and we don't You should go look at my motorhome. It's beautiful. You'd be proud to have that in your driveway really and And So we just try to help other people out there and I do quite a quite a lot I do quite a lot for the community. I think of an asset to the community and You'll miss me when I'm gone So yay for be a tooth. Thanks, Darrell. My job. Yeah, okay. God bless you all. Thank you. God bless you All right Clint Scherer Share gosh dang it should do said Clint Right German vehicles and stuff too many letters. Hi, my name is Clint share long monitor 1633 South Vivian. I'm here as a representative of the heart of Longmont 350 11th Street speaking as sorry So we should like get like a 10% increase, right? Not kidding Okay, I can't work the TV remote at home either so all right, but you got kids, right? That's true They know how to do it. I'll invite him next week. All right, go ahead Just here from the heart of Longmont speaking in support and as a supporter of the Hope program and the safe lot Over the last seven years. We've done a lot with hope letting the homeless stay in our church providing meals at Christmas New Year's Even providing overnight shelter for them working with Joseph. We're we're hoping to be one of the pilot lots as if this program goes forward So just wanted to let you know that we're here to support the program We look forward to working with hope and the city council and yourself mayor to make this program become viable. Thank you Thank you, sir So now I remember to stop it That was the last guy, sorry Okay, that that goes ahead and concludes our First call public and back to our only call public invited to be heard because it's study session. Let's move on to we doing okay It's only we only we're all right, right? Okay. Let's move on to is there? There's no special reports and presentations other than what's on the agenda, right? All right So let's go ahead with 5a revisions to electrical regulations Good evening mayor Bagley and members of city council. I'm David Hornbacher the executive director of Longmont power and communications and with me tonight is Kerry spots and Kerry is our leader supervisor and she's going to provide a Short presentation and a brief overview of the proposed Changes to the regulations governing electric service These regulations these proposed changes will be for city council at the next regular council session and before I get started before she gets started quite a few of the Power and communications staff as well as other city staff were involved in these revisions and there are several here just sitting in the audience I thought I'd recognize before we get started so over here We have Jeremy they aren't aware that I was going to do this so you could see that they're thrilled So we have a Jeremy note glue Kate Medina and Rocco subpoena so with that I'll turn it over to Kerry. I'm a little bit shorter. Sorry Thank you, mayor Bagley city council members as Dave stated I'm Kerry spots with the Longmont power and communications meter shop supervisor and Here to present the revisions to the city's regulations governing electric services here Some of the items we'd like to discuss our metering clearance connections to service facilities and definitions on The electric metering and clearance We are Now offering a lever bypass Tight meter housing in this tight meter housing. Oh, I thought I was going to have an arrow So the top Lugs inside that meter housing are the connections from the city facilities and You can see on the slide the lever with the red handle That is the actual lever bypass and This is a win-win for safety of electric personnel and it also Gives the convenience of no power outage for the customer during any type of meter maintenance So we would be able to engage the the bypass lever Take the meter out of the socket and do any maintenance checking You know for any issues that may be happening there Plug the meter back in re-engage the lever bypass and button it up all while the customer Isn't inconvenienced with a power outage New phenolic badging makes it easier to read the address where We're standing This really helps it make it easier for nighttime outages a lot of times our Personnel are called out to respond to an outage We want to make sure that we're at the right location and looking at the right installation the older brass badging was very difficult to read and As you know apartment buildings are maintenance. They get painted A lot of times the the painting personnel Wouldn't acknowledge the brass badge and they would paint over it which made it twice as difficult to try and read Where are we? Where are we? So the phenolic badging is a really great thing helps us really identify where we're at Locating the equipment on the exterior of the building helps us To to ensure access to the equipment that we're called out to Also helps us with future Excuse me troubleshooting for for outages and Streamlining and basically making making it to industry standard many utilities are Requiring this so that they have the access and it's very easy to maintain and troubleshoot the equipment for the customer new metering options for 400 amp services Now have an installation like this a lot of customers Now have electric vehicles the standard years ago used to just be a 200 amp service This type of convenience takes up less real estate on a customer's home or even on a business And the equipment's very accessible in this instance as well master metering considerations for multi dwelling units We like having the contact with our individual customers being able to reach out to them Talk with them in the public on some instances though such as a memory care facility or an assisted living facility it makes it harder for those Individuals to maybe remember to pay their utility bill. So master metering is an option for for those that get approval from our executive director of electric services Electric metering and clearances clarifying the physical clearance requirements from the electrical equipment Sometimes landscaping who gets in the way and this time of year it makes it kind of difficult when it's under snow or frozen under ice To be able to actually access the door for the utility pedestal Whether it's plants fencing or other obstructions Who was teasing that sweet little German? He scared me to death I was called out for a tripped breaker and a cut seal the customer had tried to Flip their own breaker which is located in that electric pedestal there to the left and I noticed that the fence is blocking the face of the pedestal So I couldn't get the door off and then when I tried to enter the yard and knock on the door To let this customer know what I was there for the dog came from around the back Good boy So, you know, we're just showing that you know landscaping can still be beautiful And still giving access to the electric equipment Because our customers depend on us for that reliability of their electric service connections to service facilities This is an electric transformer. So this is owned by LPC And you can see they're kind of on the left where the paddles are with the four holes in the in the paddles There's limited connections that can be made in this type of cabinet So for apartment buildings, they would need to a lot of times Maybe purchase four or five of these transformers for just one of their buildings so one of the options is To allow them to install own and maintain a secondary cabinet like this The pictures a little dark But you can see there's lots of room for a lot of the wires and conductors then Coming from the transformer into the secondary cabinet and then definitions we've updated You'll notice your red lined copies that you all received It takes a village to make these types of changes update things and really bring things into utility standards So some of the definitions that we changed were from general manager to executive director of electric services We used a lot of terminology like a CT Because we were familiar with the term, but maybe the regular public wasn't so a CT is a current transformer Or a PT is a potential transformer In a lot of the code we talked about the developer or the owner or the customer and really Streamlining that because a lot of these facilities, you know from electric from apartments go from a developer during the Construction stage then they go into the owner of the apartment complex Then they go into the customer tenant who lives there, but they're all our customer So really just streamlining all of that Thank you for your time and consideration. Oh, thank you. First of all, I don't know how nervous did you get nervous? I'm very nervous. You did great For and stubs. I mean you took I've never you rarely speak at council meetings. You took seven minutes The substance was perfect. We all understand it. It was brief. It was awesome. So thank you for your work. Thank you for your presentation Thank you so much. No, great. Good job Yeah, sure council member back council member pack. Thank you. Is this one? Yeah, so I I had some questions About your definitions actually and you mentioned a changing builder developer to Customer everything to customer So when I was going through the ordinance and reading and I and I saw the red line stuff. There were a couple things that I Had questions for example in a multi-unit building that is under construction Mm-hmm in the old ordinance is said developer or builder But at the time when this is being implemented and put in the building Who is responsible for that if it is not up to code if it is not you're just saying customer and I'm wondering Is that going to leave our departments kind of wondering who who's responsible for this? I mean So a lot of times what that is is it's the customer of of register whoever's registered to pay The utility bill so if things aren't up to code and it's still in the construction phase It would be the the developer. Okay, because that was crossed out and that's why I thought It was crossed out and we just yeah We stated that it's the customer because it's whoever the customer is of register whoever's registered to pay the utility bill Okay, and I did have another question on F2 page 12 of this it talks about the Franchise fee under electric. Can you tell me what that? I know you've said this before in the past But tell me once more what is the franchise fee for because I thought The definition of a franchise fee being marketing or selling your name or so I don't understand What that fee is for that goes back into the general fund? so Good question and so when utilities provide service into different communities Whether it's electric or gas or in water or some of those other services It is common that they pay a franchise fee or a fee to that community And that's for the use of the rights away or the other access points that they have in the community to deliver their service And so the electric utility also why we're municipally owned We're also utility that has a right to provide electric service. And so no different than a lot of other Utility providers we pay a franchise fee to the city for those rights. Okay, is this passed on to the rest the resident? through the electric bill So that fee along with any other costs are just part of the rates So it's just it's embedded in the overall cost of service provided Okay, and on the rates this isn't actually in your presentation, but for me. It's a good time to bring it up I've noticed over the years that there is a city sales tax that is taxed on to The electric rate is that why is that? What are we paying sales tax for when we're paying our electric rate? I'm waiting for the official answer. Yeah, that'd be good Me too Electric service is taxable And so Jim do you want to yeah, it's under the code. So it's electric services taxable under the code So I'm that's still a little confusing to me because when we pay The rate for the electricity are we not buying electricity from the city at that point? And why are we paying a tax on what we are and are any other cities doing this? I haven't noticed why we have a sales tax in our electric bill so for example if Jim golden Mayor Bagley members of council. I'm Jim golden the chief financial officer So I couldn't tell you about other cities off top my head. I could research that for you get back to you But under our code. It's historically always been part of what is considered to be a taxable service So it's identified in the city code and so you're saying we're purchasing electricity. It's a sales tax on the sale of that electricity Okay, and it would be great if you would research other cities in the county at least and let us know if anyone else is doing this Sure. Thanks great Okay, that's it for me. All right, great Councilor Christensen Yeah, you don't have to push a button. It's on No, I just my mind wandered So I think that all of these are very good suggestions, however, I am wondering how much All this is going to cost the city and how much it's going to cost the homeowners Do I as a homeowner have to pay for the lever bypass and for a new Plastic engraving badging and for New meter locations Thank you for your question councilmember Christensen on the lever bypass. This is Requirements for new construction. So as new construction is going up then that would be one of the requirements to provide that We do have a box. Yeah, or or as a homeowner if you're upgrading your service then then yeah, we would We would require the bypass And then your second question was on the engraving that is also strictly for commercial So anything where apartment complexes where there's going to be several meters several units That you know, they would need the main address for The the community or the the apartment complex and then whatever the unit designation is Okay, and is the the location of the box is that for new construction and Yes, yes, it is it's not so I don't necessarily have to do no Okay, thank you Mayor pro tem Rodriguez Thank you, Mayor Bagley So I guess to a certain extent just to reiterate outside of some upgrades to say the construction Issues as far as the bypass as well as for folks that are desiring upgrades to their their their boxes This will have no material Significant this will have no material change to rates for our electric payers currently It would be a one-time kind of deal if they did decide to get an upgrade to their box for say electric vehicle charging You are correct that this would not have an effect on rates and several of the things that we showed tonight actually are a Direct cost savings to the customer installing those new services, and they would realize that cost savings directly All right that You know, I think that's really at the essence of what I think people would really be concerned about when they hear about this This presentation is will there be any Material difference in their rates and as the answer is no I think that these are all great changes and Do a lot of good for the community as far as making sure that we have a great electric service Which I believe LPC provides so thank you and now you really do a good job Because you know you did great presentation then you took some you took some heaters and you did great. Thank you All right. Oh, sorry. Sorry step back up to the mic Round four dr. Waters So one is just an editorial remark But I do have two questions for you the editorial remark would be this as we talk about costs and What gets passed along and rates and whatnot just curious if anybody saw the news last night and what's going on right now in Fort Lauderdale, Florida No, I didn't yeah on NBC. They had the lead story was the I don't know Maybe a half a million tons of raw sewage That's been that's now because of because of infrastructure that has fallen apart. It's now flowing into the Bay Gonna cost billions of dollars to fix and it's going to take years to fix Waterways that people were up were using for entertainment for transportation are are now all off limits because they're contaminated And as they showed that the the pipes that have now fallen apart pulling out of the ground I reflected on our conversation about water rates this last spring and And and said to my wife you understand all those concerns about increases in water rates All of them were about infrastructure and maintaining the infrastructure this town needs So we never face that kind of a situation the other editor would mark would be I'd be happy to pay For that bypass lever so my so I had 100% reliability in terms of energy flow the electric flow into my house now question I'd lost where am I metering shows up or fits into this did I was it there and I missed it? This is all of these changes are actually Part of the am pro progressing. Yeah toward that am I So these are steps towards that total deployment absolutely all right unrelated to the presentation But related to a comment. I heard earlier I heard one during public invited to be heard someone referred to an installation that LPC did That placed a microwave something in somebody's living room and the effects that that resident was living with Do you recall a comment David? Yes, the comment that I heard was About the extension of next light so that fiber was next like that right and the only thing I can think of is they were referring to the a final install which they may do or next light might provide which is that wireless router that you have in your home to You know basically communicate with the next the fiber into wireless to be a microwave it's it is a it is It's similar to any of the routers that you might have in your house right now to give you that wireless connection And so I believe that's what they were well. I did you're right. It was okay was next light not But that's under your Broad jurisdiction Okay, well, thank you I'd like to just not leave that hanging if that's an accurate comment that we heard So when you're a next-light customer you have a choice of coming so the fiber actually comes into the ont which takes the The fiber optic system and puts it into a device that converts it into a cat Five cable that you then run into you have a choice. You can have your own router So for example, I chose to get my own router which we did as well And which is a Wi-Fi router that that runs off of the 2.4 and the five 4g and 5g That's what mine does. You actually have the choice in next light to get a joint ont and router That does the Wi-Fi at the same time And I think that's what they were referring to in terms of next light being able to do that and do that And that is actually up to the individual customer in terms of how they do that. Thank you Do you know if they're microwaves Sorry customer Martin Just as a follow-up to that if a If a customer a next-light customer chooses they can also get An ethernet router so that there is no Wi-Fi in their home correct Cool anybody else All right now final. Thank you. All right All right, let's move on to the first annual report on inclusionary housing You're still doing all right. Has it even been an hour? All right Good evening mayor and council Kathy fedler housing and community investment manager division manager for the city And I will try and be succinct, but there's a lot of information here. So I'll go as quickly. I won't yell at you. I get it. Okay. All right. Thank you. I appreciate that So first I'll start with the inclusionary housing program snapshot over the past year There's about 20 projects under Development That were Are fall under the ordinance? So if you remember the ordinance became effective at the very end of last year And so the projects that just started did not have their final plaid approvals prior to or they are preliminary Preliminary plaid approvals prior to The effective date of the ordinance fall under the ordinance so as you look at construction around the community There's many developments that are not under the ordinance and right now there's 20 in the development review process Nine of those have already committed that they're providing their affordable housing units on site Five are making a fee in lieu. They've already decided that And eight are undecided and the nine the five and the eight add up to more than 20 Because some of the developments are doing both fee and lieu and units or are doing multiple types of units So of the um 10 total developments that are providing homes on site five of them are rental projects and five of them are for sale Projects of the rental projects. There's a total of seven hundred and eighty nine units within the rental Developments 230 will have um, there will be 230 affordable homes And the majority of those affordable rental homes will be provided within the market rate rental development Of the for sale Projects there's a total of 1400 total for sale units within those projects 52 affordable homes will be provided on site And the majority of those affordable homes will be provided in partnership with nonprofits Um For the fee and lieu um projects that are saying that they would like to make the fee and lieu There's five total developments on that as well three rentals and two For sale developments at this point in time with 48 000 is the estimated amount We will not know the finals on these until we actually Start seeing building permits and certificates of occupancy issued And then about 1.4 million it's estimated under the two for sale developments Those are anticipated to come in over a period of time We're anticipating about maybe just under 400 000 coming in in 2020 Again, those are paid at their fee or at their certificate of occupancy. So they usually come in at the end of a project And then about I just kind of evenly split the the rest of it Between 2021 and 2022 looking at the developments and where they're at in the process and when they're likely to to come in There has been some interest in middle tier building And I have to stress that again these developments are still in the review process and have not yet Committed to or signed an agreement committing to providing the middle tier homes to know What tier they want to file under or if they're even going to do it But the two projects that are in process and have said that they're looking at doing that One is at 1901 south hoover And they indicated to planning and zoning commission when they went before them that they'd provide about 209 units in the 100 and 1 percent to 110 percent middle or tier and 27 in the 111 to 120 percent tier and then if you remember mountain brook Satisfied some of their affordable units with the veterans community project and the habitat projects And they that covered some of their units, but not all of them So there's still about 49 unsatisfied units that we're working through What that's going to look like so at some point those 49 units will either be provided under one of the tiers Or they'll make the fee in lieu So we'll know as as we learn more we'll we'll let you know about that So looking at the current market market housing snapshot This indicates the changes in median sales prices over time And what you'll notice in 2019 Is that prices are starting to level off at least in the median area and it actually is Reflected in the average sales prices as well So there was a 1.3 percent increase in detached homes from 2018 to 2019 And a 0.74 percent decrease in attached homes Some of this leveling may be due to more homes being available to purchase There was a 5 percent increase in the number of units available From 2018 to 2019 in the detached home product and an 11 percent increase in the attached product Um new homes first versus existing home sales, so Again looking at past years as well as The most recent current year New homes are becoming a greater part of home sales increasing from a low of 4 percent in 20 2010 to a high of almost 29 percent in 2018 and then it dropped a little bit in 2019 with new homes making up 22 percent of all home sales The income needed to purchase or rent in longmont is shown on this chart And you can see in 20 about 2012 is when a family at making 80 percent of the area median income And at our city median income can no longer afford to purchase a detached home And then 2015 was when both the 80 percent area median income in our city median Income wage earners could no longer afford The median cost of an attached home And then the rent is the purple line The income needed to afford rents and the dashed purple line is the 50 percent HUD median income For a two-person household so that shows that it's been as well quite a while since Household two-person households one in two-person households could afford our median rents So this is new information. We just got it. So it was not included in in your packet This is from the draft consolidated plan, which is being put together right now When they're still pulling a lot of information together But this shows that our greatest rental housing need is for households and families at That make at or less than 40 percent of the area median income Inclusionary housing rental projects are providing Oh, and it says renal. Sorry instead of rental Projects are providing primarily 60 percent area median income units Where if you look at the That area gap, which is about the 50,000 to 75. No, it's probably the 35 to 50 thousand dollar range. There isn't really a need Or there isn't a gap showing So we have a gap of 2,300 units right now We're looking at providing 230 units through inclusionary housing with again the bulk of them at 60 percent area median income So there's a little bit of a disconnect there And quite frankly for market rate development to be able to reach 40 percent and below without Some greater subsidies than what we're currently providing just under the Our affordable housing incentives is difficult So trying to get some of those units through the affordable housing fund application process or cdbg funds, etc Is where we really need to focus efforts to get those Reach the those units So 2019 sales this shows New and existing home sales There were a total of 1440 total home sales in 2019 I want to say that we do need to still do a lot of scrubbing of this underlying data This came from the boulder county assessors website And my staff and I tried to do some of this and didn't get too far into it Because it does take a lot of back and forth with looking at addresses and going to the website and Looking at a lot of different information, but What we found was that some in the area that's below 80 percent AMI and we assume also in that 81 to 100 percent are related to investment buys and flips Some of the lower sales prices turned out to be a deed or a trust transfer So actually just paying a little bit in order to do that transfer of the deed from one person to another And not actual sales. So We scrubbed quite a bit out of it, but not totally of the seven new sales that are below 80 percent That are showing there on the chart Four of those are the blue vista homes that are affordable So starting to see some of that under the inclusionary housing program And three are town homes that are in non-inclusionary housing developments And then 2019 sales by type of home This shows that The majority are still single family Um And um single family homes in this case includes town homes, but not condos So it's a little bit different than how we normally talk about detached and attached The assessor's office just does it differently, which is another area Why where if we have more time to scrub the data we could pull those that information out So this just shows um that all homes um are at the very top The lightest blue single family homes are the the next line down And then the the bottom line or the darkest color are our condo units So for single family homes 2019 sales This just shows the difference By the area meeting income prices sales prices So about um 93 homes were available in single family Or town homes At 80 of the area meeting income And you can see the different calculations there So it's just trying to give you a breakdown of those sales prices affordable at the differing AMI levels And then this just shows um new home sales versus um all Exists all home sales for single family In town homes new homes New build The new builds are yes are the blue Yeah, um the interesting thing here is that um Single family new homes are trending to higher priced units unlike the existing market Which still shows the majority of homes in the 81 to 100 percent AMI tier Which is that 300 000 to 430 000 dollar price range And also since single family um in the single family category includes town homes That may be that may be why that's skewing high um in that particular AMI category Just just a quick question the I know the definition of AMI But are we this 81 to 100 on the previous that one? The 81 to 100 101 120 and greater than 120 is that um Is that based on their income or is that based on the house price? It's the house price that equates to that um AMI range and so we're not comparing that to the actual home buyer We're just saying that home has that price It should generally be affordable to people in that income range. Okay. Okay Can I add can we just just on that and and what is it 30 or 30 percent? Of of their income at that AMI For housing costs. Um, we use the 33 percent that we use for sale our current sales, so it's all 33 across the board. Okay Okay, then this just shows the breakdown of sales by condos for the condos for 2019 sales 13 homes were available at 80 percent and below and then the bulk of them at um 81 to 100 percent. No, sorry. This one's the 101 to 120 percent AMI And then again showing new home sales versus all home sales for condos And it's interesting that there are there were no condo sales that were affordable at or below the 80 figure Okay, so looking at our affordable housing goal. How are we doing in our progress towards that? We need to create about 200 new affordable homes annually while maintaining and preserving all existing Affordable homes to meet the goal and right now we're about 3000 units short Which kind of ties right in with that 2300 rental unit gap as well Although we know we do need for sale housing as well as rental housing Currently we're at 6.06 percent towards our goal or of our total housing stock is affordable Little while ago. We were at 6.2 percent, but we didn't have a very large gain in 2019 of units created That got their certificates of occupancy versus the number of new total new home that were added to the city On our pipeline of affordable inclusionary homes that are coming up um This shows um What we're anticipating so 2018 we had 113 units that were produced six units in 2019 With a little bit of issue with getting certificates of occupancy and then projecting forward Using estimated permits from planning and development And then our estimated affordable housing units coming in through inclusionary housing So since none of these estimates get us to our 200 per year We also need to be looking at acquisition of market rate housing and converting it to affordable with subsidies or other New construction alternatives So metrics this doesn't look too good should have broken this slide up a little bit Um So what we're going to be looking at and tracking is changes in building permits And how those changes in our permits compared to state and or our surrounding communities Changes in median home sale prices and rent prices And their impacts of that on the inclusionary housing goal. Does it need to change stay the same? Impacts on our AMI Targets do we need to raise or lower those or um adjust those at all? and then um providing information on what the market is providing How the units are being provided So are we seeing a shift towards all on-site all fee and lieu that kind of thing to report back on that And whether or not when we start getting fee and lieu is that sufficient to replace units? Or what are we getting for the funding that um that's coming in? We'll also be tracking obviously our 12 goal attainment And then who is being served with the the program once we get things up and running around demographics and AMI levels, etc So as noted in the council communication some of the trends that we're noticing In a number of projects both for sale and rental are choosing about the same proportion of Making the fee and lieu to providing units We'll keep tracking that obviously and see if that the eight units that are eight projects that haven't decided yet How that works The rental affordable housing units are primarily being provided within the the development And the greatest area of rental units needed below 50 percent and really below 40 percent area median income Are well below what is actually being provided with 68 percent of the Inclusionary housing rental units at 60 percent of the area median income So for future Um upcoming council sessions some of the things we're looking Um around code cleanup and code changes Um are looking at if somebody's doing renovations to existing housing Um and are creating new um dwelling Opportunities within that um renovation does the inclusionary housing apply to that? Um other residential dwellings um if they are changing the type of dwelling unit that they're providing Does that um have inclusionary housing provided change all of these these things that are here within this these four bullets insert bullets um Are things that have come up because they need a site plan modification or something that triggers Otherwise would trigger inclusionary housing But some of them just don't seem to make a lot of sense Property line adjustments is another one And then changes to type of units So if a development was planning on doing single family detached and wants to switch to town homes And they're going to provide more units does that trigger something? And then again, we've talked a little bit about Whether or not we should amend the code to allow direct donation of land to nonprofits as opposed to going through the city Or um alternatively coming back with a voluntary alternative agreement to allow them to do that directly Finally, there's just some pictures of some of the things that are coming up or that are already under construction and then um Uh questions that you might have so what didn't we cover that you wanted covered? What should we do differently? What was good information? Etc? I just how many total homes are in longmont? 34 38 38 something 38,000 homes of all kind of dwelling units so 38. So you got 38,000 So just all right, so we have 38,000 homes and the median The median price is 446,598 you said And then so that means we have approximately 16.9 billion dollars of home value More or less right More or less it's the median the median price. It means half of them are above half of them are below So let me more or less We can't get the average, right? But I mean, but I'm just saying we've got billions and billions of dollars And so we're short. We need 5.92 of that To be affordable to hit 12 percent right Because that's 6.06 is where we're at. We need to be at 12 So 5.9 percent is different. So just uh, I mean just in my head somewhere I'm just thinking we need to come we need to purchase about a billion dollars I mean, we got to figure out how to get about a billion dollar about a billion dollars worth of property And you might even argue about well. No, no, it's too much. Let's just decrease it by half That's still 500 million dollars with the property so just uh, just to I mean and so I'm just pointing out that's not I mean just a fact that As we talk about all this stuff 125 homes Of 3058 it's just a drop in the bucket. So it's a pretty big problem is my point. All right councilman martin Thank you, mayor bagley I wonder how long one is doing by comparison with the other municipalities in boulder county who have adopted the same goal so councilmember martin and Mayor bagley and council I don't have that exact data. I can definitely get that and provide that I don't know That i'm sure some of the other communities do this level of analysis about their program and where they are meeting the goal Others are just trying to get Going and up to speed So we can definitely take a look at that. I think countywide we're at five percent So Including all the communities and and their housing units. So Thank you It will be good to get updates on that I can't tell with your finger Are you? Oh, i'm sorry. That's all right, and i'm gonna ask what happened later, but I hope you're okay You what? Mood lighting Not good Anyway, dr. Waters Is that mood lighting? No mood lighting. I believe it was dark. It was dark So on page three slide number eight six The the 1901 hover project. Is that the trail brake project? Okay There's many many names to that project, but that's that it's that one. Yeah Um And have they gone are they where are they in the approval process? Uh, they're still in the whole um thing I don't know what level of what number of reviewer they're on it usually takes three to four to get through Yeah, so it hasn't been permitted yet. I think no no no. Um, I think they're on their First and haven't submitted for their second. I think the update I had is they submitted once we've responded They've gone to PNZ Submitted once we've responded and I think we're waiting on their second response Now that could be second to third, but well, I'm pretty certain that there are some conditions for them as well As they go forward with this, but we'll get to those later and in another meeting. I'm sure Um, for whatever it's worth, uh, and it may not be worth anything I keep asking questions about The mountain book project just like where are we with the iga and I know it doesn't come back till after the election But what will their ballot questions be and those kinds of things? Uh, but I've also pressed the question that I asked you to press with them and that is Builder selection Where are they with that and the in a builder that would deliver those 200 condos that they said would be market Market rates at 80 well below 120 percent 120 percent And I'm told that they've selected that builder and they will deliver for whatever that's worth So that's at least encouraging that that would be that would add to that slide According to them 200 units, but we'll see as they go through the process But I would just encourage that they selected their builder In the builders says they can deliver what they said they can't would they promise to us or and if I can take this Opportunity to answer some of the data questions. I know at the retreat there were some questions regarding Who was in the hopper in terms of that middle that middle tier piece? Um Generally, we don't drop them in until we get to that final component of building permits So that we know for sure what they're doing What we've been made aware of the gap on mountain brook, but then also on the trail breaker the 1501 south over They came in and said we're going to do it in the middle tier But it was an actual addition of a document to the planning and zoning commission that that had the breakdown and so We're refining our internal procedure so that we make sure that kathy gets that when It's coming through the system. And so that's what was allowing us to do that I know there are a lot of folks still talking about it But they haven't officially given us anything that we can use at this point to put in this But that's why you only see those two numbers Oh, first of all, I want to say what a great job pulling together data I mean, I love what what you've done with this and and what we can now track And if there are two impressions for me one is Um, I think I'm the one that moved that we that we set 60 percent as the criteria for eligibility For incentives and it looks to me like that might be a mistake that it might not be too soon To say, uh, we we've tested that for a year Let's move it back to 50 because it's where it was based on the data that we're seeing right now Would you is that a fair observation? Yeah, that's kind of where I'm leaning. Yeah I would say that's that's part of the reason we're monitoring and collecting the data and I'm saying I'll I'll say I think we had it. I've had something personally. I think we ought to bring back It was probably based on the data a mistake Or a learning opportunity to move it to 60 number one number two If it's a you had a question in here for whatever it's worth from my perspective the answer is yes to change needed direction Or needed to direct Should we change the donation of land so it doesn't require council approval, right directly to the I would say the condition for me would be it needs to pass muster with you and your team It it has to be staff approved But I as as we went through that discussion a week or two ago whenever it was with Dave Emerson and You know to add one more step and already a whole bunch of steps that didn't seem to add value For that's a I'm just one person obviously but that would my my reaction The the last observation and so I'm asking you to kind of to check this against yours Kathy Um, I I appreciate what you've done with the above 120 percent the 120 percent down to 80 percent AMI and then below I mean as you kind of break these data out um So one of the things we've learned is that we ought to go back to the 50 percent at least from my perspective Another is that that that where we're making least progress right now is in market rate homes at 120 percent AMI and below Right that may or may not be permanently affordable their for sale products That that I would think of as attainable right that I thought if we were going to you know under the big banner of affordable Permanently affordable and attainable at least that's the way it organizes in my head and we can debate that But but but we're not making the progress on attainable housing That we need that needs to be in the marketplace for city of longman employees Who would like to Live in the town where they serve or school district employees Who would like to live in the town if assuming they would like to live in long month because it's bigger their school This bigger in the long month, but my point is for working families. We're still Way behind the curve on that part of the continuum. Is that a fair observation here? I think it is at this point and I think it is Allowing the developments some time to understand What does that mean? What are their price points? I mean it does take them a while to get through The development review process and figure out what their financing is et cetera To keep part of it they could commit to a specific target Tier Yeah, so I I think there's probably going to be some that come out of it It's just it's a little bit early still murky. Yeah. Thank you. Nice job with report. Thank you council member peck Thank you, mayor bagley, and I want to echo what council member water said about the 50 percent I think we do need to lower that Going forward And kathy I want to talk about the bullet points that you made for possible code changes Um, so we can just go through those one at a time The first one about giving credit for existing houses. Could you explain to me? the The difference between a home that is being torn down or homes that remain in service um, are we talking about raising a house or perhaps, um Building something new that would be affordable or get credit for? No, I'm sorry. Let me get to that All right, so I am very sorry. No, that's okay. Let me read it so that Everybody knows what I'm talking about the first one says Credit for existing houses should be given in the calculation for the number of ah units that are required Should this be applied to a home that is torn down or just to homes that remain in service Can you explain that to me what you mean exactly? So, um, we have had situations where the development they're redeveloping a property and they've torn So that 7 10 martin is is an example. They tore down one home And are in order to build additional units one lay left on site and are Renovating so should they get credit for the home that was torn down? as a unit if they're replacing I guess you could say they're replacing it with one unit. So then How does that get applied? So obviously the the one they're renovating doesn't have An inclusionary housing. It shouldn't have the inclusionary housing applied to it I think that code's pretty clear on that but the one that's torn down How do we include it or not? In the remaining units, uh, the other units that they're building do they get a credit for it or not? So if they build 10 units They tore down one they build 10 Do we apply it to nine or do we apply it to all 10? I would say we apply it to all 10. That's just one One and we don't have to decide these tonight. We'll bring back examples and options perhaps All right, great Mayor pro tem Rodriguez. Thank you. Mayor bagley. I just wanted to speak briefly to Some of the data sets concerning median pricing of housing in in longmont As as some folks know hopefully most folks know I work in the real estate industry as a real estate appraiser I'm not a broker So I look at market trends on a daily basis at more of a micro level I would put it where I'm looking at specific market segments Um And as such when we look at the median housing prices in longmont, yes I would say they are stabilizing in general But as far as what I would call kind of the entry level housing Which would be on the lower portion of our middle tier the 81 to 100 percent AMI category I would say we're still very much squeezed as a market segment. We're still seeing Very high levels of competition And uh increasing values above and beyond the the percentages that were were cited as far as housing prices increases In in the city of longmont. We're seeing, you know 15 20 offers, uh Above listing price on some of these properties And I will admit that generally speaking these properties are existing homes older homes Not generally new construction homes. The new construction homes There's not a lot of negotiation leeway when you're when you're dealing with contracting But when you're you're dealing with an on the market property, and We're seeing an extreme amount of competition Uh specifically in the 81 to 100 percent market segment, which is Driving a little bit above, you know, it's driving the prices of those properties a little bit above But once you get over 120 percent, yes, we're seeing stabilization um, and as such It's tough to to not see a lot of increase in inventory because of of our policies in the specific segment because we're not really Relieving that pressure and that's one thing. I hope that we can find some way that we can I mean obviously I think we are at a point where we understand that building Detached housing at that market rate is not really feasible. So definitely Incentivizing more condominium in town home and attached homes Is the only way to really hit that market segment to alleviate that that that pressure point but We're still seeing I would put it still up at that nine ten percent range As and even at an earlier point in the year that we're used to because I mean this is still mid february And we're starting to see the kind of bidding war is that we don't normally see probably for a month or two Traditionally in this market. I just wanted to make those comments as we consider any sort of policy changes as we go forward. Thank you Councilman marten Thank you mayor bagley. I just wanted to add to that that I am starting to receive comments from residents mostly renters And they're saying what are you doing building single family attached homes in longmont? So it might be an encouraging data point that the attitudes of the populace are changing a bit around that too And are expecting denser housing stock And I've I had a couple comments From people who are talking about that the solution that the market's going towards is people sharing homes Meaning getting roommates and I'm not saying that's appropriate or inappropriate. It's just that Multiple families are living in single family dwelling units. So Anyway, well, thank you very much. We appreciate that presentation and update. Thank you. All right All right, it's been an hour and a half. Do you mind if we take a five minute break? And then we'll come back and handle our final item of safe lots All right, let's go ahead and ask the city staff to present the safe lot research presentation And council members, uh, thank you for letting us There we go So i'm going to, uh, give you a couple of caveats first one is, um, This is really a team effort and I have my team nearby chief sadder Joseph Joanie and myself are what make up the The research piece of the of the task force and I'll go over who the whole task force is So if you have questions that I cannot answer, I will be phoning a friend And asking them to come up and try and provide the best answer possible The other caveat that I want to give is this is this is a progress report. It is not a final report Um, we are still researching and looking into different models. This is happening here in Longmont and other places and and One of the takeaways that we may leave here tonight is direction from you On what other things that you want to know or other questions you want answered that we may have not answered in this progress report So, you know, it's just a caveat that we are in We are in this is a work in progress and we hope to get more and more information to give you all What you need to make an informed decision on behalf of our community Okay, with those caveats said, uh, I will jump in it's a short slide. It's 13 slides You received our report and I will go um through this and then we will open it up for discussion and questions um So really this this the background is this really started And came out of our console conversations on homelessness Uh, we've had three we had three in in uh 2019 Where we presented some data around what we know around who is Experiencing homelessness and in our september, uh council conversations and joseph brought up the idea of a safe lot and council then mandated our task staff to create a task force to do some research Into the safe lot model or safe parking. I will also it's also known as safe parking If you ever just want to google it if there is more and more stuff being written about it So this is the the whole task force, uh, joanie march, jeff sadder, joseph saddovich myself Amy scriver, mike butler jared, uh, ben deling him Karen roney and and herald domingas is on the task force Um, we quickly met and decided that we were going to try and divide and conquer some of the questions that council had around What is the most viable model who's experiencing it and there's a question of of return investment So what do we know about what type of systems capacity housing systems we have? That investing in this model what what kind of return on investment when we get Versus investing in more housing or uh bridge housing So we broke up those three Into those three teams of the task force um And we very quickly decided to decide we needed a purpose and our purpose as a task force really to understand What are the current gaps in the county-wide systems to move people Out of homelessness and into stable housing and to explore what are some temporary options that we have to address those gaps While hsbc works on bringing new housing resources. As you know Council approved some new housing resources in the 2020 budget, which we're very grateful for and we are working on getting those online However, in the meantime, there are still gaps. So how can we address those gaps? And Really the safe lot option is one of many options that we can look at that may serve as bridge housing To try and get people to that final goal of being housed So again, these are the three teams that we created the research team the data team and the capacity team the system capacity team The the research team did a lot of work on best practice research and there is Quite a spectrum when it comes to safe parking models throughout the country Primarily there in the west uh northwest in california But there even though there is a quite the spectrum of different models of how they work some are bigger some are smaller Some serve RV some serve cars. There are some general best practices that are found in all of them For them for the most part one is most if not all have case management that leads to a stable housing situation So the idea is how do we get people housed? All of them provide overnight parking and some provide more very few provide more than that Most programs at this point don't allow RVs and we'll go into that question in a second It's primarily a cost issue um And they all provide some kind of access to restroom facilities And they most of them provide some kind of security and that can be done in a spectrum of ways as well I've seen everything from you know private security guards firms to volunteer security and that of course affects cost But those are kind of the the what you see in the models throughout the the country those are the things that they tend to have This essential elements I added because I read this very interesting study Done by the university of seattle's law school And they were looking at I'm going to catch up. I need to go. Okay, so I've got it my I've got a family member that just went to the hospital that I need to go So mayor pro tem's in charge. So I apologize. I'll call you after to get Yeah, okay. Yes, and I hope your family member is doing well So this study looked at what are the essential elements of successful programs Throughout the country and they really came down to three key things and being very intentional about them I'm going to quickly cover the first two, but then I'm going to focus a lot on the third one One is funding sources, you know the the study looked at three case studies and each of those case studies The they were funded in different ways. Some were funded by primarily private donors. Some were funded by government And funding And connections to funding can also lead to different limitations on how the program Works, so for example, when you get government funding, there's a lot of government strings attached to it Whereas when you get private donor funding, it may not be as Stable as government funding, but it it may open up different avenues of how you deliver the services Then the second one is key relationships Each of those successful models had developed key relationship with both Municipal staff and in particular with the police department. The most successful ones had very strong relationships with local police departments The final one reputational capital I thought was very important that one focuses on Wherever a model is held Needs to have that reputational capital with the the neighborhoods where they are located There needs to be strong community engagement And strong community voice in how that model is delivered Those three things together Really are is the fundamental basics of making successful models. We know that that's what that study showed so And joseph is here so you can talk more about his but hopes Part of our research team was also to get information from hope on their safe lot pilot Now as a reminder, this pilot is being done by hope without any formal city resources or vetting by the hsbc system at this point And I want to correct because joseph Graciously corrected me on my report and it was also in the paper In the report it talks about Joseph or the safe lot pilot using navigation As kind of a basis for intake Because this is not funded by the city or the county joseph let us know that hope will be using its own Intake process and again, this is a working process We're still trying to figure out what that's going to mean for how do we help people access Some of the resources that is within the htc system. Okay, but I just wanted to point out that correction But the safe lot provides temporary parking waiting for housing You'll provide case management and it will add background checks something that doesn't happen right now People living in vehicles not RVs Primary like I said cost is an issue And who are not accessing the shelter And it's and hope is seeking to implement two lots one for adult individuals and then families A separate lot for families with children With a total of five to seven vehicles per lot I think the idea is to be manageable at first to learn from it and then decide how to move forward So here's some of the costs that uh, we that that we researched and jony was jony marsh was extremely helpful in, um Finding these costs. This is what it would cost if we were to provide our own RV safe lot So we would need connections And a dump station that we'd have to create and that would be From 38,000 to 76,000. We would need of course developments We would need street improvements to make sure that it's a feasible Place to park those RVs And those are the ranges and these are estimates these are ranges that the jony researched and then If we were to provide a restroom facility, this is the estimated cost Uh, so it's quite an investment to make um Of course vehicles and these are these are estimates provided by joseph are much lower Um primarily it's focused on security uh, and What they would provide There is a one time If we go if hope decides to go with a shower restroom trailer There is a one time fee of 30,000 But we're not exactly sure what it would the maintenance would be on that option Or to save some costs hope could, uh, choose to do portable restrooms And according to joseph it's around $4,000 a year to rent and maintain those, um restrooms So that is the research team's work what we're doing The safe lot data team that team Uh, is working on trying to find More and more what is the need and so with the help of amy scriber and our gis folks. We created a survey Uh, that is primarily being used by public safety right now And this is just a snapshot. So this data has not been Completely analyzed yet, but I did want to show council Here's the progress that we're making on on collecting better data So this is a survey that public safety has On their phones that is helping us capture Uh data around those who are experiencing homelessness that are living in cars and RV as you can see The number of folks in Cars is much less than what uh people that are living at RVs And you can see the number of operating RVs and non operating RVs and car Operating and not operating That those are the numbers that are that are are coming and we hope to have a much better picture By the end of march, um that that right now is our goal to to finish data collection So that we can come back and present some information To council But I just wanted to give you a snapshot to snapshot so you could see What we're doing and but it does more than just capture that it also looks at You know, what is their family makeup? Um, and these are all voluntary questions and contacts. Um, they don't have to answer We have the unknown You can see that the majority tend to be single Even though there are some couples and there is there was one at least at this point There was one family with children Um, and you can also see You know the vehicle if once you click vehicle it breaks down from vehicle to art to that other Picture of RV non operating and operating and and car operating and non operating But the majority of the of the contacts 72 so far Have been in vehicles either cars or RVs So we are collecting this data to try and Frame a better picture of who's experiencing it and what we're seeing out there Uh, and I think this is being very helpful to us to to give us a better understanding Of uh of the people that are experiencing homelessness living in RVs and cars So what is our next steps? Well, as I mentioned, we continue to gather data via survey until the end of March Uh, we are working on assistance capacity analysis So the housing exits team that's part of hsbc is doing a pet portfolio Of available housing and that was in the report You can see part of the work that they've done so far and hopefully we'll have more And then, you know come back to council for further direction But I think this is a great opportunity tonight to To get some further direction from council to try and find out what are other questions you may have Or other things you may want to uh us to research Council member mark Thank you, mayor pro tem My question has to do with uh people in shelters I know you were counting contacts there on that slider and that was my understanding But I also know that we have Up to 30 ish people a night In our shelters. So how did you end up with no contacts? So currently the only people who have the the And that's a great question and and currently the only people who are using the uh app are city staff So city staff may not be they so these are folks are these are police officers that are on the street And so they may not be going to the shelter to have those contacts Um, so that's why there's no context at the shelter because these are happening on the street as city city police patrol or get calls Okay, so they're not running that maybe they know the people that are on the shelter using the shelter So they don't talk to them But because the people using the shelter are on the streets most at the time aren't they? Uh, they are and there were some in the shelter, but again, I think it's primarily those that are getting called That are that are things that are vehicles that are being Getting calls on vehicles on the street. I understand. Okay. Thank you He's not getting any Can you hear me? Oh, there you go So I think part of this is and we talked about this before this is an evolution on this program And so right now it is just with the police department, but where we want to be Um, let me back up a little bit. There's some unique things to this that helps us get a cleaner data picture So one is the address auto populates or you can Versus having people manually and put the address and you get so many different addresses that you can't Bring those together. So that that happens automatically in in this app The other point is is it's connected geospatially So then that goes in with our gis system too So that we can see other things in connection to this now The key point is is they're still working some kinks out So they just have it with the police department at this point What we eventually want to do is actually get this app into all of our partners And so I know I was in the data meeting with Joseph and said I would like you all to have this as well as whomever it is it's Interacting with the population they have the ability to do this and then there's We have to then be able to put Boundaries around who can input put what who can see it and those are things We're still in the process of doing so at full implementation I would like to see a lot of people with access to this so that we can then get that broader picture And at that point we would not have apparent gaps That were puzzling the way I was puzzled about no shelter people. We hope but again, it's it This is information that they give to us and so how individuals answer that Could show itself in the data But we are starting to see things As they move through with this, but we'll know more hopefully by the end of march Okay, thanks And so ultimately again, so it really like like to reiterate what you all said We do want to get it into the hands of our outreach folks like andy and our new outreach person from The boulder shelter doing a diversion. So the idea we just Working out our kinks so that we can get it out to the community to be more effective in capturing the gaps as you just said Thank you Anybody council member christensen Thank you, mayor pertin And aberto I I think I think this is a very worthwhile program to do a pilot on I We had a lot of people from who are living in rvs come and talk and um I understand from this study why it's A better idea to do a pilot program on people living in just in cars because it's more cost efficient and There are less people and all that I do hope though that we Can find a way to expand this to rvs because It's a problem for those people first of all and it's a problem for everybody else too and um, you know, I I just hope we can move forward with it. I think it's this is a terrific way to start Well, we we can definitely continue the research again. This is just initial research There is much more research that can be done And we can look at different models that include rvs as well. So we we can right this is what Yeah, I appreciate your comments And if we can prove it out this way then we can expand it to something More like well for rvs and things like that. So Council member peck Thank you, mayor pertin I do want to make a clarification though. And if I if i'm interpreting this incorrectly Correct me that our when we Go to an rv safe lot. It is not a permanent safe lot. It is not for people to Live there permanently. It is a temporary Safe lot and they must be in our coordinated entry system because with boulder county Our whole focus is to get people into stabilized housing And so the people who are living in rvs Who will be in the safe lots are in rvs temporarily while they work out of That living situation that that is the same understanding that I have that this is a temporary Solution to get people into housing Correct. Thank you And I think that's one of the questions we've talked about that we may need to add is to say If this then this to get at that very question Because that's another level of breakdown in the data that will I'd be able to inform council You have 30 and of the 30 25 One at permanent then that's a different conversation Based on what you asked and that was something that We need to figure out how to put in Council member you doggle fairy so I guess in looking at funding because one of the things and when I've spoken with individuals living in their RVs I see it seems like I'm talking running into more folks who are in RVs as opposed to vehicles What have you done any research on safe locks where they do have the capacity to hold RVs? How how do they attain funding and how do they keep their program going? So I have seen some models that have RVs and again, this is we do more research What one of the ones that is happening in San Diego Dreams for change they have an RV lot But what they do and I and I can look more into their funding but the way that their RV lot works is They did not provide a dumping station or any other of those kinds of amenities And they lock it up But when when morning comes the RVs need to Leave the lot and go to a certified dumping station and dump Dump there and then they may return But that would mean that the RV has to be in good running condition and be able to do that And that they can find and access a place where they can dump So that's one model I've seen but again, I think more research is needed and I need to work on that So then it could be coordinating with facility with places that have facilities for dumping So then we can do a partnership and my understanding is that the agency doesn't coordinate That you just send them on the participants have to do that on their own Okay, okay, and then the other thing in looking at temporary What is the time frame? What is considered temporary? That's a great question. I don't have a good answer for you on what is temporary idea is And this is part of what the systems capacity team is doing to try and find What is the most viable option? How fast can we move people? Out of a potential safe lot and into housing or other type of bridge housing So for example, we are looking at things like master leasing and Locally funded vouchers. We are we are trying to explore the different gamut of opportunities for housing But I sorry, I don't have a really good answer on what temporary means. Yeah, because again, it's when people are Are looking for a permanent solution or when you are In a situation where you are experiencing at home with it takes even when you have like a financial setback It takes months and in some cases years to get back on your feet and build that capacity to be financially independent I can address what I do know what I do know Is that and joseph can can speak this as well Currently people in navigation On average are taking four months Three to four months to get into into their own permanent housing situation So I I don't know if that would be that would correlate or that would that would reflect this The potential safe lot model, but we do have that data. We know that it's taking three to four months To get somebody who goes through navigation and into housing Okay, so we would really like so the safe lots then if it could kind of mirror what What the trends are being? What the trends are are being done and and thank you all so much for putting this together You know One of the things and I hear comments all the time that people aren't treated with dignity or respect No matter what you're experiencing. I mean we a lot of us are one paycheck away from Being homeless experiencing homeless ourselves So it's it's really essential that we are treating our residents with And our constituents our neighbors with dignity and respect and finding options that will Will preserve that humanity and I appreciate that and you know just having taught in Title one schools my entire 25 year career I've I've had students who've lived in their cars And trying to to create that stable stabilization for for our kids And their families as well. So so thank you for the work you've done Well as a habitat homeowner, I'm grateful for the city for the work that you all have done as well And then the city has done. I mean that finding affordable housing in long months as cat you mentioned is not easy Councilmember waters Thanks, mayor bro. Tim Elevato, I agree with the comment that this is real helpful And so and just on the follow-on to this you made reference to Just just for my own clarity Uh Hope's going to move forward with their with their program That is correct as we continue to learn right do our own research And you made reference to what we want to learn from the The hope program It would be really helpful to me to know what is it we want to learn what are the specific questions That we would like to have answered Or as close to answered as we can as they move forward And I'll come back to what you know some of those Why I think it's going to be clear because well, maybe I'll just go now go there now There are some aspects I I admire what what joseph and hope is attempting to do here But this gets framed as a pilot and I'm going to sound you know, they'll be accused of of business speak here And um, but I but I have to say a pilot program with no end Is not a pilot program, but that this one has no ending A pilot program without a either a clear theory of action Or a model evidence based model that we're going to test with the questions that we want to answer with the test Does it it's an experiment which I think is fair But I think we ought to be explicit whether we're conducting an experiment or pilot program Because if it's a pilot program words like what somebody may do or could do Aren't very helpful if you're trying to learn something from it or we're trying to learn something from it So that's the reason for me to be explicit on what we want to learn Okay, because when it's somebody says somebody may do something It's like well or could do something or there's no we don't there is no end on this It's like, well, what are you what are you going to learn from that? So I think being explicit is going to be important Tell me about costs You know when I see here on the on slide eight of 13 rows up to 611 thousand dollars Is that the cost to do two safe lots In the hope program of seven units seven vehicles each No, sir. That is the cost for an rv Lot so they're separated into rv and vehicles And the the rvs So we're taking rvs off the board right for the for hopes purposes So it's the four 104 thousand For the four seven is that for one lot or two lots Joseph, I'll let you Thank you councilman waters. That's a good question. So My estimates were simply based on vehicles the 30 000 is a one-time investment for a Portable rustom trailer, then it's just maintenance the primary cost is simply security And the five to seven vehicles is only for our startup That would really be based on the capacity of the lot because One security person can handle up to 20 vehicles in other models. We've seen I'd also like to mention that the rv startup costs There is no current model that a city of funding that has that level of Of services for the rv lots that would be probably the luxury version of the country. It'd be amazing. Don't get me wrong If the city wants to invest in that but a lot of city lots are are so much more Of simple in nature. So in the materials, I thought you were raising the funds to do that As opposed to the city. We're not quite there. No, I I'm I'm going to be raising the funds for the 104 000 that's what that's what I that's that's what our funding campaign is going to be starting Next month. So and that that will be for for an entire year But is that for is that for one or for two because you because it looks like you're going to test Lots of five to seven units in two different locations Correct. So the dream vision for me is to have two Two different lots for two different clients. Hell adult individuals Families and children would be ideal. However, if I am only able to do one lot, I will look at current AT's or demand, but there's Most of the folks I'm running into are right now adult individuals because that's who we serve But I know there is a large component of families so um, I Love to be able to serve both in this in this initial setup and the in the priority in this case Would be the families or the individuals? If you could only do one if I can only do one I'm going to look at Uh, the largest capacity that I that I can initially run into which I mean it would be the priority be families or individuals If you're going to do one right you're going to separate families from individuals If you're going to do one, which is your priority that I don't have the answer to yet simply because Uh, I'm still gathering family data And I don't have all that yet. I I know there's a large individual capacity That needs to be helped right now um And I know there's I know there's demand for families too. So I can't answer that yet Simply because I don't have all the data yet on the families to you um, so it so if you do only one That your estimate is the 104,000 Correct. It's gonna At this point That cost will be the same for yeah, that'll be the same because I can have security personnel going in between both lots So so whether it's one or two you're s you're envisioning the same cost Or it'll be a little higher because I'll need either one more restroom the restroom. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah, all right um So you've got actually the probably 35 probably 34 of the 104 You'd have to duplicate or replicate in in both in both places and then you could share a security Personnel it looks like correct and part of our faith community and some of our churches have been really great And speaking with them like the heart of long lawn was here today Let's let her Some of our church facilities that do have showers are very interested in this project. So I might take that Yeah, so that's what I'm still trying to figure out what facility we best. All right. Thank you So alberto, I'm gonna come back to you Well, can I just add about the experiment and find so joseph didn't mention this book He and I have emailed back and forth and there is plans to do it Out six months three months six months Can you So for us it's initially we're going to look at this found a three month basis when you talk about pilot The summer months are the easiest obviously for for a lot of reasons So we're going to look at it for the three months in the summer initially just from a logistics planning standpoint How our faith partners are feeling about the program? We'll talk to our participants how they're feeling about it and it just as needed And to your point councilman waters this Will certainly last longer than a pilot. I mean these models are very successful I just think I think our language is important and and I think experimenting is okay I think it's actually that's what you do before you do a pilot So I think that's a good thing not a bad thing I just I just think we ought to if we could ever get together on what these things mean it would For me it would expedite, uh, you know the discussions and the thinking Um Are we So maybe either for joseph or for how we're thinking about this Are their fees are we thinking are we envisioning fees? Uh, to be associated with a lot so councilman waters and members of council. We haven't discussed that so again That's part of what we were asking for tonight is direction Uh, as a research team, we have not discussed fees So we will now go back and discuss fees and and try and find models that have fees for whatever it's worth I assume in our in the intake process. There is some income Data that we collect For for navigation services or yes. Yeah financial status, right? So I assume we could I don't mean testing is probably a stronger statement than it needs to be that But there's some some approach to establishing Ability and that would seem to me that If if there is no fee, this is a philosophical statement and maybe a question um, it just You know, my the mindset is Services for which people pay nothing They value in in ways that might reflect what that transaction is I just think if we're going to do this even if there's some dignity In even if it's 50 cents a night that there's some Fee that goes along with this just as just from a philosophical perspective So for whatever it's worth Um, and you know, I'm just one person talking I mean, I'll make my last statement here and then and then Joseph can jump back in When you if we're gonna if you're gonna come back to us with something It would be helpful for me. I don't know about others um to have it Because right here's a problem statement because of x we are going to do y Right and here's how we'll know if we're successful And that would all start with what if the goal is to transition participants in the safe lot to Transitional housing Then then there then there ought to be some performance some numbers in there, right? Well, no, we're successful when we've trans transfer or can I know what's the right term we've helped You know, we've we've we've we've helped All or some percentage of the participants in the safe lot transition to To transitional housing, right? However, we're going to label that That we have some kind of structure like that and then you can cite the evidence Or if it's there's no evidence that it's just a theory of action what that is but be explicit on it So so we it takes mystery out of things and you can learn as you go along and make adjustments But I think we ought to be clear on the front end Why we're doing it what we're going to do and how we're how we're going to know if we're successful. Okay Thank you Thank you, mayor pro tem I just want to make sure that we are not making Lifestyle choices on behalf of people who don't need lifestyle choices made for them And this is not to attack what's being done at all here but We did have some people speak very Coherently about the fact that they have made their lifestyle choice and They are fine living in rvs And it would be better if The city adapted in such a way that the rv population and The property owning population Just could coexist together a little better than they do We're not supposed to clap, but I'm glad you like the way I said it Um And so I do think that one Um, you know, there's a difference between living in a car where you don't have a bathroom And you don't have a kitchen and you really don't have much agency if you're living in a car You know, you're on your way to something better if you can possibly get there on the other hand living in an rv is a A lifestyle that you can change can choose and have agency about living that way And you just need to live in a community that that Is adapted to it in a reasonable way And it's also the biggest population people living in well maintained rvs was the biggest population that you've counted so far So I just want to put out that we need to Um Count when we're counting is as to whether people Um want to change their living situation or just want it to work a little bit better um, and to acknowledge that Um Adapting to the community's needs is part of the rv safe lot Uh Program So, you know, I I I think doll over here doesn't want to be yanked out of her Uh rv and it it's a very nice one and she's proud of it and she doesn't want to change that for an apartment And I think it's especially since um, we do have a place she can drive over to the Fairgrounds and pay five dollars or what ten dollars or whatever it is and do her thing over there um And then come back and park legally Even today But if she could park a little out of the way so that you know, somebody's Some parent with kids didn't get scared of her even though she doesn't look very scary to me Um, that that would be an upgrade for the whole city So I just want to make sure that as you go forward You're collecting that kind of information from people that you speak to and um That the solution that you come up with Takes all that into account You actually gave us a a question we need to add because Um, I don't want the data to be misleading and that operating means that they're fully operating Operating can mean that they can move It may not mean that they're not leaking in other issues And so I just leaned over to elli burto and said we need to ask another question on that Is it operating can it move and then is it fully functioning? Yes I don't think we're capturing that data because that tends to be It's the where it's not fully functioning and we get gray water and other issues Wastewater on the street that we tend to deal with in neighborhoods So we actually need to add another question to the survey and that's part of the Um intuitive piece of this well, and there's yeah, there's probably a I mean fully operational means you have at least heat That it doesn't leak waste And that you can move it from one place to the other if you don't have Uh, uh a clean out facility right where you're parking So there's at least three questions. I think um, and maybe we could ask for some uh advice for the people who have experience with the lifestyle As to what the Criterion ought to be because I bet they know So thank you. Yes council member peck Thank you, mayor pro tem I would like to just respond to a couple things that councilman waters Said uh about the pilot program. I agree that we need uh targets data, et cetera on a pilot program But listening to the coordinated entry and the length of time it takes to actually transition I think it would be very difficult to set a time on A pilot program to begin with Because if it takes four months to a year To transition into housing And the pilot program only goes for nine months It kind of I think we should Have it as an experiment to begin with so that we aren't We're still learning So um and as far as people paying for the lot I think that this is going to be a nonprofit more than likely Which means that we would probably accept donations rather than charging a fee So i'm not sure that we can do that under a nonprofit The other thought to think about is that if these are operational vehicles And people are working regardless of whether they're cars or RVs chances are you can shut this down during the day Because they would be driving if that is their main vehicle, they'll be driving it to work Dropping their kids off if it's family and they won't have a need for one during during the day unless it's some kind of an emergency So those are just things to think about as we go forward um and I To address councilwoman martin's uh suggestions If if this is a if This is a whole different conversation If the city is going to get into sponsoring a permanent Liveable RV lot and that is the luxury lot With uh, and I don't think we're from what I have Heard and what we were discussing that is not where we were going to go With trying to be a part of coordinated entry But that's just my opinion to have permanent living spaces such as it would be like a trailer park But with RVs, uh, I don't think the city At this point has had that discussion as to whether we want to go into that or not. These are two different discussions Thank you Councilman reprisians Thank you, mayor poten. Um in regard to what, um Both councilwoman peck and councilman martin's that Um concerning RVs, I think maybe we should ask People coming into this if we do, um Move forward eventually and have an RV situation The reason RVs can't, um goes Be in a mobile home park is that RVs are not legally supposed to be occupied For all year round they're not, um Designed to be lived in year round, but people do so I think Um, one thing I would like to see asked is if people would like the choice of being able to be Instead of transitioned into an apartment If they would like to be transmissioned into a mobile home Because that is a that would give them a lot more options. They could go Live at a mobile home park if they so choose um There are a number of things that are um Not up to code that I I don't know that we can ever Make it, uh, like a legal permanent RV lot because It's simply Not supposed to be they're not they're just not supposed to be lived in Uh, according to code all across the united states is my understanding from my My research, um, so anyway If if people wanted to transition into something That would be a little more livable But would still allow them the freedom of moving around I think that could be a good choice too You know to to help help them have more agency and still live the kind of life they want to live but also Give them a better living situation. That's a little safer council member waters My question about fees really wasn't so much about the What hope's doing and I don't know what hope can or can't do with collecting fees I was more interested what we're thinking about right if we're going to do something with the city So I guess a question to the city attorney If we can if we try if we can charge fees for camping we can charge fees for Parks and rec use we can charge fees for a lot of things we could charge fees. I would assume if we wanted to Uh for somebody to participate excuse me to participate in a safe lot Is that a fair assumption? Or what would maybe then you'll then you'll get to answer the next question What would exclude safe lots if you said no Mayor and council Eugene may city attorney the fees that you Listed are usually for a use of a city service or property. Wouldn't this be the use of city if it's a city? I'm talking about a city safe lot. Oh for a city lot not the whole project One would think that you could probably charge fees on those Yeah, and I'm not talking. I'm not trying to make money on this. I'm just saying that uh, there's something there's something about That and I just think that ought to be part of you know, when you bring it back that that'll be a question I'll have we can talk about it then but I wasn't thinking about it so much for Hope they'll do whatever they want to do with with that. Um, I do think I'll just For me If we were to go in the direction of the of an RV park that would be have more permanence to it, right? This is not about transitioning Obviously, there are different expenses that we're going to occur and I would I would I wouldn't while I might support the idea. I wouldn't support it without expecting if people are going to participate There is a fee that they pay not just for for dumping but I mean there's a public investment in creating a space and that Participants just like they would in a campground There'd be some probably nominal fee that would go along with that if it's a city operation So councilman waters, uh, my understanding from our conversations at the research is that I think there's an ordinance That bans rv parks in the city Is that correct joining currently our zoning code doesn't have any allowances for allowing rv parks So that's simply a code change that council would direct When I wasn't advocating going in that direction, I would just suggesting that if we're going to do it I'm going to come back to the feet discussion if we if that were to be a direction Okay, I haven't been able yet to chime in so I just thought I'd give a couple thoughts Um, obviously as we see the cost breakdown the difference between hopes estimates and and the estimates based off of an Rv safe lot from the city One concept is that the their permanent infrastructure improvements generally speaking I assume so for a 275 thousand dollar bathroom Facility would be more of a permanent structure than temporary structure Um, and I did when I went to school out in california I had friends that went to school with me who lived in rv parks out there And so I take it that's obviously I don't know what the ownership structure of those places were but I obviously imagine they paid a fee to live in those rv parks and They seemed like perfectly decent places to live as far as if you decided that's what your You know preferable style of living was and these people I went to a fairly expensive private school And these folks that were going the same private school with me lived in rv parks. So I mean it makes no Real determination on where you're going to school what you're doing That's just how you choose to live and and your your mode and So if it's really just a change of code at the city level, it's something we really need to consider because Obviously not everyone's looking for transitional, you know services into permanent dwelling units of uh, you know brick and mortar If you will and so I really do hope we we consider that going forward Not just the safe lots for cars because obviously if you're living in a car that seems to be a much more Necessity for transitional services because Folks are not generally choosing to live in cars out of lifestyle choice Versus an rv, which is a completely different different style. And I do agree with the statements are previously made about Mobile versus fully functional as far as rvs are considered And I'm sure there are folks in rvs that are looking for Transitional services as well. So I think we we do need to consider the the full gamut Here as we as we move forward To really address also the problems or some of the concerns from our residents who are worried about you know the folks that are in front of their homes or in their neighborhoods and And so if we can provide safe places for both folks that want to make that lifestyle Choice or folks that need a transitional service I think you know it just does a full service for both the folks in the rvs and the vehicles as well as our folks That are you know living in homes where these tend to congregate if you will As such I don't really see any more comments I thank you so much elliberto and and the full task force for bringing your report to us and we look forward to Because as as was mentioned not the final report and and seeing some of the other Proposals brought forward to the council So as such we'll move along with to the 2020 legislative bills recommended for city council Position with sandy cedar assistant city manager sandy cedar. Thank you sandy cedar assistant city manager and I have four bills for your consideration today Two of them regarding mobile home parks. So Part of the conversation so the first one is house bill 20-10 17 Concerning treatment of individuals with substance use disorders who come into contact with the criminal justice system So this bill is well meaning it provides safe spaces for people to be able to bring Drugs and be able to get help But it mandates it in a way that is contrary to the way that we are doing it with our angel and network today This also creates an unfunded mandate And so even though we appreciate what they're trying to do with this bill and staff is working with the Bill sponsors. They the wording has not yet changed. And so at this point The staff recommends that city council opposes house bill 20-10 17 House bill 20-11 96 concerning updates to the laws governing mobile home parks So this bill defines new terms for the purpose of the mobile home park And the dispute resolution basically it strengthens the rights of residents in mobile home parks and because this is important This issue of housing and their rights are important to the city council staff recommends the city council supports 1196 House bill 20-1201 is another mobile home park bill and basically provides the Homeowners in a mobile park the opportunity to purchase the park under specified circumstances It lays out when notice needs to be given to those residents and how that might be conducted Again, this strengthens the rights of the mobile home park owners And so city staff recommends that city council supports 1201 I should note that both 1201 and 1196 are up in committee tomorrow So if the if the council does decide that they would like to support these bills I have some contact information with boulder county if you're interested in going down and being part of the The conversation and the bill and you know signing peace so Bill committee the last one house bill 20-12 94 concerning replacing the term illegal alien with undocumented immigrant As it relates to public contracts for services This does exactly what you have already done and removes the requirement for illegal alien Certification but instead replaces it with undocumented Um immigrant so of course we would rather have a full repeal, but this is way better than nothing So we would suggest that you support house bill 20-12 94 This is a study session So I might remind the council that if you'd like to take positions on these bills Your first motion needs to be to suspend the rules of procedure to do so and then to take your positions council member martin Council member martin. Oh I moved to suspend the rules And then I moved at the count. Okay. Oh do we need to well we'll take we'll take that vote for I was just looking to see if anybody had any objections We'll take the vote any The vote on the motion all in favor say aye. Aye all opposed The motion carries unanimously six to zero Um, and then I move that we the council accept Ms. Cedars recommendations as written Second for all four. Yeah, thank you any debate Seeing no debate all in favor say aye. Aye all opposed The motion carries six to zero with mayor bagley absent Thank you very much and if you're interested in going to the committee hearing tomorrow, just let me know after the meeting All right. Now we're on to mayor and council comments Councilmember christensen Uh, I forgot earlier to mention this but um the city staff Wrote a very very I thought a very good letter a very compassionate and sensible letter about the problem of meth Meth problems and classifying everything as a one size takes all I I wanted to congratulate them for doing that. I thought it was a terrific Thing to gather a whole group of people from staff to to try to Explain how this sort of one size fits all does not fit anybody And the expense it causes and it's horrific for the long line housing authority, but it's also for well Everybody um So I would like to um At least personally get some follow-up on that what what comes of that I think we'd all appreciate it though. Thank you Councilman peck Thank you, mayor pro tem I was going to give kudos to mayor badly. I will anyway, but it's too bad. He's not here This friday on the 21st A group of people are going to fort worth to talk to bnsf executives about our peak service and the corridor getting modeling and Caught so hopefully some costs for the entire corridor Mayor bagley is going and our chief transportation engineer Tyler steamy is going which I am very happy that they're going to bring back that data so that we can move forward on this project um, and I I have to say that tyler is the only engineer that is actually going And this is a modeling project. A lot of people are going just to give their input But we really needed an engineer and I'm proud that tyler is going because he's uh He's great So I look forward personally to having that data brought back to council And uh, hopefully we can move on with this project Seeing no other comments city manager Thank you city attorney Comments I move adjournment All in favor All opposed we are adjourned