 Since the Taliban took control of Afghanistan on Sunday, August 15th, 2021 they have been concerned about the rights of women and children in the country that is now called the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan. Now despite press conferences held by the Taliban basically assuring citizens that the rights of women will be respected, Brookings Institute's researchers, analysts and experts say that they doubt that that's a likelihood to speak more on this and on the rule of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Let's invite Mr. Danik here, he's a lecturer of philosophy at the University of Lagos. Good morning Mr. Ikeri. Good morning. I want to get your assessment of the general overview of the takeover of the Taliban in Afghanistan and then delving straight into what your rule might likely look like. Thank you for that, for having me. Now we do know that the Taliban have always constituted a serious threat to the government of Afghanistan and in fact, not just Afghanistan, the entire region has been under serious threat. Unfortunately this time around they've been able to take over the government of Afghanistan. Yes, but when you look at their modus operandi and all that they have done in time pass, the question you will ask is how assured are you that these people can actually guarantee the freedom, the security, the protection of the lives of the people, you know. So in this particular sense that they are now in charge of government, although the EU has said even though they are not a legitimate government, they will be, they will, they don't have a choice but to deal with them, not to what extent is an issue. So I have my fears looking at both the way in which they took over government and the oppression in time pass, whether of, you know, they can actually guarantee the liberty, the liberty of the people, particularly the issue of women and children, you know, I have my fears about it because in the first instance they are not a law, you know, established institution or not, a law established government. So how are we sure that they are actually going to abide by the laws of the land? If they were so law abiding, how come they change the way the president, you know, so these are some of the issues one will look at in terms of trying to access the pledge that they are going to protect, you know, everybody, particularly women and children, it gives me a lot of concern as a matter of fact. So what you're saying is the world shouldn't take their message seriously because they've put out a message saying that they will respect, you know, these rights and the likes but, you know, it doesn't seem very likely from what you're saying. In my own view, I don't think it's something that we can go to bed with. I don't think so. So Mr. Ikere, we know that from 1996 to 2001 when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, they were very strict in how they regarded and treated women. They closed girl's school, they banned women from working and even for the men, men who had shot beards were penalized and even though they're now saying that they're going to make sure that, you know, they obey women's rights, we're seeing a story here that what the Taliban is doing is that they're going door-to-door to find people who are similarly against them and are working for the U.S. and NATO. What really might we see in the coming days in Afghanistan? Thank you. That again establishes or confirms my fears because if there are people who are going to be loved by them, who are concerned about the liberty of people, they will not even engage in that search or try to deal with those that they claim or they feel might have been in support of the U.S. over the years. And looking at the activities in the past, the strictness, the toughness with which they descend on people and the rest of it, establishes that same fact as well. So my worry now is that, yeah, even if they claim to protect the rights, the liberty of men, women and children, the question as is on what background, on the laws they are going to give that will be so tense, so tough, that the law on its own that is going to take away your liberty, is it on democratic principles, is it on the rule of law? And if it's the rule of law, what law? You know, these are the questions that we arise as well because once they give those kind of strict laws, for instance, you want to go and deal with people who do have long beards, you want to deal with people who have these, who have that, we already conflict with their liberties, it gives a lot of fear. So I think that the whole world, particularly the United Nations, should watch out carefully and see how they can actually deal with this situation, that the rights of people, that their liberties is actually guaranteed. Now that you've brought in the UN into this, we know that on Tuesday, German Chancellor Angela Merkel put out a statement asking and urging other European countries to accept refugees from Afghanistan. But with the perception of the country, do you see all the European countries opening their doors and opening their arms for refugees from Afghanistan? I want to think that they will compile all cooperates because the EU has already issued a statement that despite the fact that they recognize that this is not the legitimately elected government of Afghanistan, they are going to deal with them. So how they are going to deal with them is what we are yet to know. But if it is anything to go by, it means that they must have to as well cooperate in a manner that the refugees are taken care of. Because without that, how else are you going to deal with them? Is it by way of, after all, it's not going to be by fights? And already the situation has created a refugee scenario. So one way of dealing with them is to ensure that you first, you accept these refugees, go into whatever negotiations you are going to make in order that there will be a situation that will be bearable for the people. As for the Taliban, they are already a group of people who are addicted to a particular lifestyle. For them, that lifestyle is the best. For those who are not keen to their philosophy and the ones who are going to have the challenge, and that is what is creating the refugee situation, if they are so assured that these people can guarantee their liberties and their rights, do you think people will be fleeing away? So these are the challenges really. Let's also talk about the origination of where this type of philosophy came from. There currently are rallies in Afghanistan. Some Afghan people are protesting against the Taliban already, and that was in the news yesterday. But can you share with us the origin of this type of philosophy that the Taliban has? A lot of people would argue that this isn't pure Islam and this isn't what the Koran teaches. And so how is it so powerful that it has been able to give birth to the Taliban? And of course, what we are currently seeing in Afghanistan. Thank you. Now, the origin would be very difficult to see. It is this point or that point. But then look at a few things that have been taking place over time. You will recall that crime in a way is one thing that attracts people when they are jobless. Now, again, when you find religious doctrines that are being marketed or sold to people, that people cater with some kind of persuasion, religion is one thing that are oppressed by faith that once you hold on to it, you don't use logic to handle it. And the moment you key into a religious faith, the tendency is that every other value will come under it. Now, these people have been able to market a particular style of religion. The word Islam will be made to understand the means peace. So I don't know how peace becomes fight. So you will find out that this. Oh, sadly, we lost Mr. Kiri there. But to bring you up to speed, we've been talking about the Taliban ruling of Afghanistan and how it's likely to be in the coming days, coming weeks, months. And only God knows if this would be able to basically be addressed before it spirals out of control. But I want us to take a look at about five key promises the Taliban has made to the Afghan people and to the world. Now, they've mentioned that the rights of women will be respected, but they put the caveat they said it's going to be within the confines of Sharia law. But we know that people have expressed fears that that might not work. Mr. Kiri, we have you back. Welcome. Yes, thank you. I was trying to draw, you know, a background. Yeah. And that, you know, faith, it's the way it works. Okay. In such that every other thing comes under it, faith can separate a family more than anything else. So now the one of the Taliban, if the word Islam means peace, and they are telling you that they are Muslim Islamic members of Islam, it shows that they are the extremist group. And once you go into extremism, obviously, you are creating a new set of values. And when you look at the way discipline is enforced by some of these, you know, religious beliefs, you will be able to wonder whether there could be any sense of humanism in the practice, you know. So for the Taliban, they've been able, you know, to impress themselves on a set of people who perhaps at a point, either they were politically, they maybe even the displaced or economically disadvantaged. And along the line, they were able to make some provisions to cater for them. And they have now just like what you have in Boko Haram, there are people who are seen be recruited despite the fact that what they are after is bringing mayhem upon people. So in such cases, even Boko Haram offers people money. We'll see video where people are recruited into Boko Haram and they are telling you they don't even know what they are going there for. So somehow these people make some provision for their people. And such people believe that this is the savior. Along the line, they establish themselves in such a way that they are so enmeshed in all devices, even in their own particular beliefs to the extent that when they unleash that on the general public, they believe that that should be the standard of life. Yeah. So that's the real challenge we're having. Mr. Ikari, I've, you know, listened to, you know, sadly, I think I shared this yesterday. I listened to a couple of podcasts where people were detailing their fears, you know, people who are currently still in Afghanistan. Including journalists. Including journalists who had assisted the United States and assisted the West all the while that they were still present there. And so that's a very, very strong fear if those people would survive. There's a person who also was interviewed who said that nobody should take the word of the Taliban seriously because they will find these people and they will behead them according to him. But I want you to share your thoughts on if the Afghan people can take back their country. Is there that any possibility in that, seeing how the Afghan army almost basically fled and surrendered, can the Afghan people still take back their country? Well, even the Taliban, they are part of Afghanistan. Some of them are from the country, you know, so they are still part of the country. So to say whether they have that people can take back their country, they are the ones in charge, except that they are not the legitimate ones that were given the power and authority to govern the state, you know. So for the others, who will be looking forward to reinstalling order in the city, the kind of order they used to have, is going to be a very tall order. That will mean that the rest of the world will have to come to their rescue, you know. Because if you continue with the line of action they have taken already, they are prepared for anything. So, Mr. Ikeri, what we saw in 1996 to 2001 was US, you know, takeover, US invasion, you know, the US occupation actually of Afghanistan. Now they pulled out, the Taliban took over again. Now, if we're looking at a situation where world powers come together, Russia, China, because right now I don't see the US, any possibility of the US going back into Afghanistan from the body language and actually the words of Joe Biden, he actually said there was no right time to pull out of Afghanistan and, you know, they're living with the consequences. So other countries coming together to intervene in Afghanistan, do you see that as a possibility? Because we saw what happened when the US stepped in and when they pulled out. So do you think countries who decide to, I don't know, let the country deal with it themselves because maybe they go into the country, they occupy there for a while and then they come back and the Taliban comes back stronger? Yeah, now look, you look at it from this angle. You now have a refugee situation. Is there Afghanistan that is now hosting the refugees? No. You see, what's the problem of this kind happens to any country? It's serious to the neighboring communities, the neighboring countries. Practically the rest of the world suffers part of it. So if you wait for the Afghan community to address this issue, then what you are saying is that the refugee situation should escalate and that there would be a situation in which people would be in a kind of bondage. So what was the essence of the United Nations, if not to address challenges of this kind? So they must find a way of coming to negotiation with these people and ensure that they restate order. But Mr Aikere, we know the Taliban negotiations amnesty, we've seen how they act when it comes to this and how nations cannot exactly hold them by their word when it comes to negotiations and peace deals. First of all, when we lost you there, I was basically reiterating about five promises the Taliban have made and when I look at them, when you take a closer look, it then seems like it's promises that they say they would not fulfill because first of all they've promised to grant women freedom and rights. In the confines of Sharia law, people are afraid that that might not happen. They have said that they are going to pardon everybody who worked to the US, all the enemies. But now we're seeing that the Taliban have been going door to door looking for people who actually worked with the US to attack them or imprison them or punish them. They've also said that they're going to ensure security in the embassies. We don't see any likelihood of that happening. They said that also they're going to make sure that they ban narcotics. We know how the Middle East is with drug use. Also, they have said that there's not going to be any use of Afghan soil against other countries. So, when you take a look at the promises that Taliban have made and what we've seen with two of those promises going south ways, do you see it as maybe these are things that they've said that they would actually do, not things that they wouldn't do? I've told you clearly that I have no confidence in the Taliban. In the same manner, they are not ignorant of the fact that even the US occupation of this place was equally not a genuine and sincere something. They know that the West, particularly the United States, equally has a lot of shady deals. So, when you know that this person is not plain and you are dealing with such a person in a plain manner, you are obviously just deceiving yourself. So, they understood very clearly too that this is the nature of the US as well. It's like they have to find a way to see how they can just market themselves, see how the world can embrace them and see them as who are really out for something serious. That's why all those promises are coming out. Even some of those promises, the sharia-based promises, they are as good as bondage, some of them. I'm not aware that sharia means women to become president one day, I don't know. It doesn't. Well, it's really funny how you've mentioned that they have to be accepted. It's a funny place to be in, to know that a terrorist organization will be accepted by other countries. I'm not sure how that even sounds to anybody. That includes also on social media because Facebook, Twitter and the likes don't seem to be shutting down Taliban pages. They've allowed some of these things to thrive. But I want us to go back to the start. As far back as you remember, the Taliban have been growing in strength and have been thriving because of support from certain quarters, I believe. They have had some level of support, maybe from terrorist financing nations. And like you also mentioned, the U.S. have some blame or some shady deal. So Mr. Akari, who would you say should also hold a huge part of the blame for what we're seeing today? If the area of blame is what you are looking for, it's going to be a very serious situation because in the first instance, before you begin to blame, they found that it's eating cassava. You should blame the cassava that refuse to grow downward and choose to grow upward. So something has created a situation for them. And that is why all of this is happening. So rather than go for blames, we should look for ways out of this lot jam. And one of such ways, like I said, is for the United Nations to do what is more proper to guarantee a situation whereby the liberties of people are protected. Yes, that is the most important thing because if you go into the issue of blames, on both sides, obviously you will find some levels of sexual places of blames. But the most important thing is the people. How do we address the challenge people are faced with? How do we address this issue of refugees? Because at the end of the day, it's equally going to affect the issue of food, food supply. So we must look at this holistically and see how best to address it. And I'm thinking that one sure way of doing this, obviously you will not send anybody in the United States to Afghanistan and say you want to mediate over one thing, they will not listen to you. I even don't think the United States want to engage in that. So let it, that the umbrella of the United Nations for this issue to be escalated to the point that we can't get to a resolution and amicable resolution of the crisis. Finally, how do you expect the other parties here, the silent parties, Russia and China, what role do you think that these other nations might play in this conversation? We do know the kind of conflict, the kind of rivalry that, you know, if you like, call it blood. This time I don't know if the blood is actually cold or hot, you know. I think what should be done as long as all the nations mentioned are part of the United Nations, let the United Nations as a body take over this challenge and address it. Otherwise, you will find these commissions of several interests, the whatever Russia and the rest of them. Yeah, because there's always this battle ground of who is superior. That battle of supremacy, if we allow it to survive, the people will always be the ones who suffer because these are like two elephants. When they fight, the grass obviously will suffer. So let's ensure that the grass is nourished so that it doesn't suffer. Dana Kera, lecturer at Philosophie University of Lagos. Thank you so much for your time this Friday morning. Thank you. Absolutely. And of course, best wishes to the Afghan people today and we hope that the best result is achieved here, hopefully. This is where we wrap up. You can join us on our social media platforms to catch up on any of these conversations that we've had this morning. 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