 You know I'm curious Why 12 Apostles? I mean all the numbers in the Bible. Are they divine? Isaac Newton who I'm a big fan of he dedicated his life work with the Bible in mind And so I'm curious what's your opinion about the any numbers the dimensions type of knackle are all these things have specific Numbers associated with them are those particular numbers? Divine in nature. Well, I I think it would depend on on what you mean by the question I don't think I don't think math was invented by God. I don't think numbers are you know have some sort of You know, he had a spiritual life or something like that. I wouldn't use the word divine I I I would say that I would say that the order that math helps us see and Understand in other words the elegance or the symmetry of creation of nature of Life as it runs, you know all the stuff that math applies to which is frankly just about everything All of that stuff math is is a human invention. They're out there different mathematical schemes, but they all Bring to bring into view Design and I do think design is part of creation. So ultimately numbers and math take us back to a Creator through through the root of the order and the symmetry That they help us discern and understand. So that's the way I would approach it I think it might just be a language difference there, but like specific numbers in in scripture I do I do think some of them have are there for more than just counting. I mean you have you brought up the number 12 specifically and Again while we do have the 12, which is the tribes of Israel, which is the apostles and then you put them together And you get the 24 elders and all that kind of stuff. I mean well while I think there is certainly Something to that. I also think that you know, this might freak some people out unless they've they've read fairly deeply into Some of the stuff I've done or if they read the poor tent Let's put it that way, but I think there are certain numbers like 12 That have to do also with the zodiac what I would call astral theology And I don't mean astrology like Miss Cleo, you know, like who am I gonna marry? How much money am I gonna make and all that kind of nonsense? The the assumption in the ancient world among Jews, this is why you have you find zodiac mosaics in Jewish synagogues What were they apostates? Well, no, they're not but their belief was that hey We read Genesis and it says that God made the stars and he made this the heavenly celestial objects and therefore times and seasons And this is language right out of Genesis. So so They're there they're put there by God and God's in control of them and we can look up at the sky ourselves and we can see patterns and So maybe just maybe if we really sort of watch that long enough Maybe we could figure out that God is either trying to communicate what he's doing or we could sort of Somehow understand that he's up to something and you get this in Psalm 19 And it specifically Paul's use of Psalm 19 again for people for people who've read The poor tent this is not going to be unfamiliar But if you go to Romans 10, we you know, this is Paul's discussion. I'll go back to verse 14 Paul is talking about, you know, the Jews and the Gentiles and all this stuff and the Messiah and he says in verse 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed and how are they to believe in him of whom? They have never heard and how are they to hear without someone preaching How are they to preach unless they're sent as it is written how beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news? But they have not all obeyed the gospel for Isaiah says Lord who has believed what he has heard from us So faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of God, but I ask Paul says Have they not heard? Indeed they have For their voice here and here he starts quoting Psalm 19 for their voice has gone out to all the earth and Their words to the ends of the world now if you go back in Psalm 19 There's a text critical issue in Psalm 19. It either says It's talking about the Sun Moon and stars, you know all that kind of stuff in in Psalm 19 And it says either their voice has gone out to all the earth. That's the Septuagint. That's what Paul quotes In other words somehow they believe that the stars could speak They could message something and Paul is actually saying he's actually connecting that idea to the gospel or at least to to Christ The Maseridic text says their line has gone out to all the earth and that's a reference to the ecliptic Of course, which is that the path of the constellations follow the constellations of the zodiac So I used that for an illustration to say that there was this idea that God could communicate things Through the heavens again, this isn't astrology as we think of it because it's it's you know Scholars refer to it as astral theology or astral prophecy It's it's an own genre much later in the Greco-Roman world and a lot of people I shouldn't say a lot of people some people think that revelation is largely an astral Theological book and I think there's something to that I wouldn't go as far as some others And I don't think that Paul is saying that you could look at the constellations and sort of get the Romans road out of it What I think Paul is actually alluding to here is Is what we read in Revelation 12 now? I can't prove that but that's my suspicion I think that the tradition we have we've we have preserved in Revelation 12 about And I actually take when John says I looked up at the heavens and saw I think you I think he's serious I think John is reporting in Revelation 12 what the magi saw in the sky at the time of the Messiah's birth And I think Paul picks up on that and so the point is that People could have known That a divine king had arrived and it just so happened that if you do the math Here we are back to math if you do the math You can arrive at a specific date that I think again not coincidentally Coincides with Rosh Hashanah Which is the day of the inauguration of every new israelite king and it also coincides with Jewish tradition about Noah and the timing of the flood and we all you know we go back to Genesis 6 and let's have a party there I mean, there's all these things again that are converging in the birth of the Messiah I think that that really yes that that some numbers in scripture do telegraph these sorts of ideas And and this is a little bit beyond your normal Gamatria If you're if you're familiar with Gamatria that that's when you certain languages they the letters of the alphabet Corresponded to numbers Greek does that Hebrew does that Aramaic did it you know Not not every language does but a lot of them did and so there are places 666 is the best example Where you know he gives you the numbers so you don't you're not supposed to guess at the number You're supposed to guess it what the number means and it's a human number. Well, no kidding You know it but that that that's actually a hint as to how to think about it It's Gamatria that number means something and not only does it mean something in terms of the letters that the numbers form But that has to be framed within a certain wider context, which is what a lot of people don't do When they interpret 666 and other things in Revelation The dove when Jesus is baptized, you know that the Spirit descends on him You know like a dove well, there is no Old Testament passage that that has that sort of imagery you go back to Genesis 1 the hovering It's not a dove there. We actually don't have a bird named, you know it but if you take the Greek word for dove and Put it into you know put it through the Gamatria mill the sum total of those letters is again I don't think coincidentally the same sum total as the letters alpha and omega again I just don't think that's accidental There's another one in John I don't want to bring up with a hundred and fifty three fish because I use that in the portent. That would be a plot spoiler but There are just things like this going on that transcend the text and I and I do think there is a biblical Numerology, I think a lot of what you'd pick up and read Sort of is too imaginative. It just sort of takes the ball and runs with it all over the place What the way? I think it should be approached is can you situate what you think is going on here a It does it have exegetical foundation and the thing I just gave you in Romans 10 does because Paul is quoting Psalm 19 Okay, does it have exegetical foundation and Does it make sense within the wider ancient Near Eastern ancient Mediterranean culture of the time? If you can if you can situate, you know what what you think you see In those two ways and I think you might be on to something so certain numbers do have You know that sort of appeal the number 40 I think is is artificial and what I mean by that is if you actually concord that it's like everything in the Old Testament happens in 40s again that that that's that is a little too coincidental for me I think that the point there is either a generational thing or it's a literary way that people back then would have understood as as Completing a generation or completing a reign or something like that. There's this completion aspect to it because it it just shows up everywhere, you know, it's It has its own sort of broad Associations because of where it's used so some numbers. I think certainly Have I guess I could say divine telegraphing because again under inspiration. They're being used to telegraph certain ideas But but in and of themselves, you know numbers. I don't think there's any divine quality About math or about numbers. I think it just depends on their usage. It's something that I'm going to to dip into again, because it's It's quite fascinating, you know, there's and because again 666 my mind just goes back to because If you're you know, if you're just doing Gamatria with 666 and you know, we've all read this stuff Oh, it was ten re-kissed here. Oh, it was this president. Oh, it was that guy. Oh, it's Nero. Oh, it's If that's all you're doing You're just scratching the surface. There are things that you are not thinking about and probably aren't even aware of that You need to be thinking about That will help you make sense of that Maybe for a different reason But I don't I don't want to get too far into that Because there's there's a number of directions it could take and again, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna pretend I'm a prophet I'm not a prophet But there are there are things that I could see as possibilities there that I've not seen in print Let's just put it that way It there one or two that that you could find in what I like to refer to as the fugitive literature You know again this this academic stuff that maybe ten scholars in the world will ever find that article and read it Which is unfortunate, but there are just things going on there at least potentially going on there that your popular prophecy writers Just put them away Just put them away that's probably one of the best pieces of advice I can give you and If you want some leads, I'm more than happy to give them to you But the the popular stuff just put it away