 It is seven o'clock on Monday the 2nd of October and I'll call to order this meeting of the Waterbury Select Board The first item on the agenda is to approve the agenda. Do we have a motion? I move to approve the agenda as presented All right, I have one piece of discussion Neighbor of mine on Randall Street Contacted us late Friday asking if we could add an agenda agenda item on closing off Randall Street during Halloween from 4 p.m. Until 8 30 or so 4 p.m. Well, no one 4 p.m. Tonight, I'd like to add that to the if you're so inclined to add that to the consent agenda Friendly amendment and I would include elm to yeah the end of Elm from airs to driveway On to the end of Randall Street Yes, apparently we have Okay, I'll favor the amendments a I I any opposed any abstentions All right now we're voting on the motion to approve the agenda as amended all of ever say aye Aye, aye any opposed any abstentions, okay, we have an approved agenda as amended Consent agenda items The minutes their quest for cater permit and the newly added closure of Randall and Elm Straits Do I have a motion? I move to approve the consent agenda With the amendment. Thank you All right moved and seconded any discussion hearing none all of ever say aye Any opposed any abstentions, okay? Consent agenda is also approved Now we have the public session anyone that has anything that they'd like to discuss That's not on the warrant agenda. Please Come forward to raise your hand and we will recognize you. Please keep your comments less than three minutes if possible Alyssa, I have two things under the general public announcement category One is I couldn't pass up another opportunity to plug the zoning update walking tour and open house this Thursday at five Starting here. You can drop in even if you can't make the whole thing Planning Commission member was in here earlier. There's flyers over there. They're gonna have boards Low-key opportunity to talk about zoning What more fun way is there to spend a Thursday? Yes And it's all on the homepage of the municipal website under news including a link to the flyer and a link to the fancy Story map where you can actually like there's a really cool slider where you can do your property current zoning to propose zoning So check that out update number two is I was on the Waterbury roundabout today and Lisa has Some updates she called it. I'm gonna get the headline wrong because I couldn't find it but like Potentially stormy news in local journalism and just to say out loud, you know, Lisa I think has done an incredible job providing local news coverage She broke down her finances for last year, which amounted to five to six dollars per hour of her time Essentially recognizing that she does tons of you know, unpaid time volunteering also get support from UVM And freelancers, but it takes money to make things happen So she is having a conversation tomorrow Tuesday, October 3rd from 6 30 to 8 about kind of like what is the future of the Waterbury roundabout and local journalism? because they clearly don't have a fully viable business model at this point and So That's gonna be in the library. It is in yes, Waterbury Libraries large meeting room, so I'm assuming SAL room come with questions ideas and suggestions So yeah, just wanted to say obviously thanks to Lisa as we've done before for all her coverage But certainly I'll be there and excited to think about things for the future All right Mike I Just want to give you a brief update if I can on the Town fair, I know what this will win and Michelle Ryan From the finance office went I felt it for me. It was a two days very well spent I really enjoyed it, but I'm just gonna hit hit some bullet points of some of the Interesting ideas that I have Took away from from from the meeting when I thought the idea of Creating a community of distinction. I thought that was a really interesting idea, you know Don't just give it, you know the recreation crossroads make your town a community of distinction Dominic cloud of the St. Albans City manager Also had some pretty interesting things He says he said the use use the power of public finance to do what the community envisions And I think that's something that we do already, but I think that was to me It Met home and so if you want public support, you know, you need to sell support for the project You know having Economist on what you what what you want your local options funds for as we progress into potentially Doing a local options tax with our charter Strategic engagement, I think we we use a lot of the things that they suggested to you do use a town plan Community surveys, which is some stuff that we have already done use the regional Planning Commission and use different town pairs to See what other Like-minded communities have been doing Just if people don't know Josh Hanford who used to be that was a commissioner of housing He's now I think he's already at work for Vermont League of Cities and Towns is at their Intergovernmental review kind of person, but he's kind of limited as to what he can do because You know when you go for the state government out to private sector, there's a certain cooling off period What's that one year I Think it's either I think it's a one-year till I you know someone said six months I didn't I didn't think it was six months. You'd probably know being an ex-state I remember I was told to stay out of the politics for a year Right. They also talked a lot about DEI You know, I think you know, you know They say how important it is to have welcome and engaging communities and seeking equity Committee members, you know within your town The I Can't remember his last name Doug the chief recovery officer He said Debris now is a Low effort, you know, it's kind of been done a lot He's then now starting to be real concerned about river debris. I know driving up route for it Looks like Yucca flats in some places. So a lot of rivers. I think the Winooski fared Okay, you know, there's definitely some some debris in in the river He talked about there's an issue of cash flow with municipalities and The shutdown is not not not applicable. So I won't even discuss that because we've avoided the shutdown and He's he talked about using abatement powers if possible with some folks which we have already done Ah talked about The Vermont Bond Bank Michael Gore he discussed that there'll be a lots of money available to municipalities affected by the flood To get money They're also very concerned about losing housing units Versus building back resilient. That's kind of a big focus. That's going to be coming up Out of all the disasters since 1990 this kind of says something 37 of the 40 disasters were flood related to was Snow related and one was a pandemic. So as you can see as everyone can see as we know very well here That flooding is a very key thing and he thought that it'd be useful to use social Equity and green energy You know would work for 90% in embersments reimbursements with Another couple of things They talked about paying attention to diversity issues, you know, I your standards in recruiting Staff members in your town You'll do a certain qualifications Don't always use tech degrees or Higher level degrees. Sometimes you could hire people who don't have a formalized degree I have very significant importance would be really really good and There was a discussion of how you communicate is as important as what you say really Communication is a very vital thing and it's not always the words. It's the method behind you know, what what you you contribute and the public sector is Very different. We can't compete a lot of times with the private sector Because the public sector is making good for society and you need to to market that what you know to people especially if you're saying a lot of millennials like to be involved in things that are good for communities, etc and They talked about the great resignation. I guess I haven't heard that term for a while is is is a reality Versus in the great re-evaluation I think there's a lot of people looking at different careers now, you know in communities at especially after the pandemic He also said focus on events with strategic Visioning versus relying totally on planning and that's something and I like the way that they have they talked about the the chocolate milk of tears has being You know people who are against something you have to sometimes look at Very different at different issues versus some people will look at what historically has been done and You know, they'll find ways to do things and They also had a test. It's the 5 why ask why five times. It's a really kind of Important way Mike in terms of next steps. I'm thinking I'm already hearing maybe some things for a next meeting agenda in terms of like follow-up for DEX and maybe we just put that on the agenda. Yep, and And It was just You know, that's just a real Very brief summary some of the real things that I focus highlights They're all there are a lot of things and I think you know, maybe there are a couple other things that I go into more depth at maybe another select board meeting I'm still kind of You know synthesizing what I heard here, but I don't know if Elizabeth you have any further comments on the town fair No, I wasn't able to attend all both days But I agree. I think in terms of quick actionable things DEI is something I'll propose when we get to next agenda Next meeting agenda because there's some time-sensitive deadlines. Mm-hmm Yeah, and Mike if you have other things that you do think Would be beneficial to discuss sure Let us know and get on the agenda also Roger. I know I already said my plug for Lisa's conversation tomorrow from 6 30 I say since she's here in person I just want to offer if she had any elaboration especially because we have more folks online at least right now in terms of what to expect Okay, not to put you on the spot, but if you want it You know, I'm not really sure what to expect to be honest For those of you, I'm not sure I posted a column today on the roundabout site It's under the business section and it's kind of about the future and so the status of how the roundabout is doing in general And it talks about how We're doing well as far as people using our website and growing donors, you know individuals sort of slowly But that we're still really not at a sustainable level of operation three years plus into it And it basically sort of throws the question out to the community like You know, do we want to do this? Do we want this to continue? We need a new plan We need more people involved and I kind of you know throw this out there to see who's interested I've already had some people Over the last couple weeks and I've been sort of lining this up. So I know we're gonna have some people there But I'd like to see where the conversation goes and what some ideas might be I don't I certainly don't claim to have all the answers But I definitely need help and it's it's a way to sort of put this out there to people I guess this is something that you value. Maybe we can get more people involved Because I certainly don't want to have the situation that we remember from a few years ago We're all of a sudden the newspaper just stop And and didn't really sort of give any advance, you know notice or or discussion and so I'm trying to you know Be proactive that way. What's the time again? It's gonna be in the main large meeting room in the library at 6 30 tomorrow night Until the library closes at 8 so And if anybody wanted to read the piece it's on the it's on the website under business, so thank you Any other public comments Hearing none, let's move on to the community Resilience of Waterbury Yes Both coming out Hello I'm Bill Shepulak, and this is Lou Schlegel as you all well know Tessie Yip and Nora and Janet. I believe are all part of crew and We're here to talk a little bit about that tonight just to let you know What we are what we're doing how we came about And what our mission and goals are so crew means community resilience for the Greater Waterbury area and It was established or initiated or Born if you will right after the flooding of July 23 and Really the beginning part of August Tom had talked to revitalizing Waterbury to To ask if they might consider being Fiscal agent for a long-term recovery similarly to what the town did back in 2011 after Irene because We knew then and I think We know now that the town doesn't have really the capacity to do the things that this organization is setting out to do Teresa Wood who was the chairperson of Rebuild Waterbury and was very instrumental in leading that group to raise over a million dollars and to rebuild probably 130 Homes to the condition that they were in pre-flood Kind of convened a meeting with RW and Invited a few people from the community Who she thought might be interested and helpful to come to the meeting and we met and We currently have 11 members on the on the committee We do have bylaws or almost have bylaws there they're They've been proofed and reproofed and I think tomorrow night. I hope that we're able to adopt them officially finally The bylaws will allow up to 16 members. We have 11 right now, and I think the 11 that we have Our good cross-section of representatives. There are people Certainly from Waterbury on the on the committee, but we have representatives from more town Dexbury Middle sex anybody from middle sex yet? No, so Crew as I said a minute ago Community resilience for the greater Waterbury area. So we expect that we'll be assisting and working with Households that are located in Duxbury, Moortown, middle sex, maybe Bolton and and Waterbury and We are meeting weekly right now every Tuesday evening at six o'clock at the Excuse me at the RW conference room in the steel block down the street Um FEMA uses these long-term recovery organizations or groups to help administer volunteer labor and to help Figure out which grants are Appropriate and how they can be followed into the community to to help We will be conducting some fundraising We have received About twenty eight thousand dollars so far the the major source of that first donation was Mark community foundation and We've had some Small other donations that have been made we haven't really started to Advertise or solicit donations yet We felt that we really needed to Establish the organization the bylaws And adopt a mission and and we have done that now so The mission is to help residents and businesses in Greater Waterbury to build back smarter from the July 23rd 23 flooding by providing technical assistance resources volunteer labor and One-to-one support if necessary to affected flood To to those who are Affected by the flood with a commute commitment to equity and environmental justice One of the things that we talked about and those of you who were here in 2011 and certainly Roger who has lived through both 2011 and 2023 as a flood Victim if you will This flooding was certainly a little bit different than the last time around for water break Fortunately, so We were much more like Montpelier and Barry the last time around We had over a hundred property owners who were impacted here The vast majority of which suffered basement flooding Really less than a couple of handfuls of people that had more than basement flooding Some businesses on Main Street, of course had some flooding as well as on Elm Street And then I think there was some Above basement flooding So We're in a different We're in a different mode of recovery this time around Last time we were helping people, you know, put drywall back in put flooring back in All kinds of you know, carpentry painting Plumbing all that kind of stuff was necessary Fortunately this time around we don't have quite that same need to the degree that we had the last time and there are certainly outliers who need Lots of help, but most people suffered basement flooding and I think the the talk around the last Several meetings that we've had over the past couple of months is that you know, it's only been 12 years Since Irene and how many years is it going to be before? We have another one. We hope it's years. I mean, you know, I mean could be Next week we hope but we We felt that What we needed to try to help people do this time was to do the The difficult things and the expensive things But things that will really Allow for greater resiliency in the future One of the things we've spent a lot of time talking about is how can we help people move? electrical boxes and panels and is there a way that we can encourage facilitate even the moving of heating plants now for some people especially that last That last element heating is is something that will be a long stretch. It's difficult to do Right now. We're concentrating on just trying to help people get heat because it's already October and Even though it's going to be 80 degrees for the next couple of days We know that that won't last long and people need heat. So we're not Necessarily worried right now about moving people's heating plants, but we don't think that this committee like rebuild waterbury Will end its service as quickly as rebuild waterbury did rebuild waterbury was in place for I don't know 15 18 months perhaps And when all the places were reconstructed they closed down and they weren't heard from again until Well ever but now here we are and the commitment I think that we are making the people on this committee Is that this will be a long-term process where we will look to educate people? We will look to provide the technical assistance necessary and to help Over time do the things that are just difficult to do but that are helpful So with that I think I will stop maybe you want to say a few words Liz there's a few other things on this cheat sheet that you gave me but Liz has been a lot of time Liz has really been You know a huge benefit to this committee. She has many many contacts in the disaster world she She is able to draw on her Professional job in the contacts that she's made there to Really provide lots of information and insight and I think we already Liz a debt of gratitude for the amount of time that she's put in and Anyway, so I'll turn it over to Liz and then allow you to ask any questions See this room in my dreams forever And I think that's where it started right knowing that it was going to take a lot Those three covering get people ready for the next one. I was just looking at the FEMA numbers between zero five six seven six and seven seven 184 FEMA applications. We all know that getting denied by FEMA doesn't mean you didn't need help. I had a conversation with Vermont Legal aid the other day and they're like It's definitely not clear to people That they are going to need to appeal and appeal and appeal again You know Janet and Tessa set up for us a FEMA You know kind of clinic here in the library before we knew FEMA would be located In what a very Mike you were one of the counselors for that and it's so clear that we need to restart that right that there needs to be one-on-one Buddy support for everybody who's affected kind of regardless of what they need Roger I think it was you who said we're all 12 years older Then we were the last time at the law herder to wrangle some of this stuff and they're definitely folks who Didn't get email You know since then so our goal is to have one-on-one support for everybody who wants it Some of it might just be venting some of it. It will be helping people do their FEMA appeals Some will be helping people chase down contractors Right. We'll partner we Tom Drake is on This board partnering very closely with the work that he's doing here so that he can say Oh, you need help putting together the Tetris of the money We can help with that right the crew will be able to help you with that So the idea is both to have folks who are willing to hold up their hands and say I want to help When we put out the initial call for volunteers We asked people if they would be interested in helping with social emotional support or FEMA administration support Fully half the people Right volunteer to do that So we'll be reaching out to them in the next couple days to say now we need you right like this is not what we need now we You know in our last canvas That Tom and I worked on we didn't get a ton of responses, right? We need to recan this so we can understand where people are You know the the for a lot of people the efficiency Vermont, you know rebates. They won't be eligible Or it won't match up with the equipment that they bought can we help close the gap for them, right? If they're still short of money, there are going to be a lot of Little bits of money available the Good Neighbor Fund right nor represents a Good Neighbor Fund works with Peter Right. She's doing tons of one-on-one casework, but it's going to be helping people so all those pieces together Right, they maybe can get a little money from their church a little money from this fund a little money from that fund Right contractors can give discounts. There's a lot of pieces, but someone has to help organize that because it's so overwhelming so that's the general idea and So we're also hoping right to have a whole bunch of people Who build locally build their own capacity to help other folk, right when there's trouble Right. I want us to be a community that gets good At dealing with trouble that gets good at living next to the river We don't afraid to be moving, you know neither does the river, right? And so we think it's going to work really nicely in terms of some of the big community conversations That what a bear will be having about community level resilience, right? What's the right thing for this municipality to do even as we help people look at their own house? Right at a conversation with a woman a week or two ago. She's like there's literally no one on my first floor No, we're on my first floor. You could put an optical circuit box Challenge accepted right there is definitely going to be Some carpenter or electrician who will be like here's where we can put that Hey, because what people need is actually a little more Tailored support than what they can get from efficiency Vermont or what you know They might be getting from their contractor because their contractor might not be thinking about the money Or where they can find the funds, yeah, and we we know when we realize that Even finding contractors is a difficult thing. I mean with what's what the needs are in Barry with the needs are in Montpelieu And the needs are here. So we will be Thinking about ways can we contract with can we crew contract with Plumbers or electricians to do this work can we collaborate with the town to figure out maybe the town has better buying power than we do We're not here to ask that tonight, but we're just letting you know. These are things that have been talked about at our meetings and You know, we're we're just volunteers without lots of resources almost everybody has day jobs and I Don't You know, I find ways to be busy and I've got an elderly mother that I'm taking care of so it's It's it's a challenge for for us as well But I think we're all we're all up for it and we're up for it for the long run It's not going to be like that there's going to be They're the frustrations we understand people Have to be patient Liz or maybe it was Nora showed us last week You know a chart that maybe they got from FEMA talking about the psychological ebbs and flows that people have and you know When everybody comes and helps them muck out, you know, they're feeling pretty good. Everybody's really happy You're kind of my hero and then everybody goes away and nothing is really normal yet and the psychological Skids again and people get depressed and some people get get in a situation where you know, they become immobilized they don't know what to do or where to turn and We're not by any means the only place that they can turn, but we hope that we are able to fill the gap for some of those folks one thing I mentioned last week and I know you'll be starting your budget considerations soon Excuse me I know Mike he talked about the VLCT town fair and talked about Abatements and I know you've had a couple of abatement of quest requests in 2011 with Irene The town and village together abated almost a hundred thousand dollars. I think it was ninety three thousand dollars plus and I don't think you're in that situation now Maybe the town could think about putting in its budget not ninety three thousand dollars But maybe twenty or twenty five thousand dollars in lieu of abating taxes and making a donation to an Organization like ours or another one that might Be able to use this money to do some of these things and you know, that was something I just threw out last week We didn't vote on it, but I did tell the group that I would mention it when I'm here and You know, I don't pretend to know what your budget Needs are you certainly have some flood related issues that you have to take care of so it's just something to think about It's it's not a demand by any stretch of the imagination So I think with that if you have questions, Liz and I can try to answer them. Otherwise we can get out of your way Bill we're you know recovering still but pretty much recovered from the flood and we've decided to put in heat pumps and I was wondering if that was something that was on your agenda as a Environmentally Yeah, preferable solution. I know the state of Maine's got a big program to push heat pumps And I was just wondering if that's yeah, I mean your agenda our goal want our first goal help hundred property hundred plus property owners and tenants With recovery rebuilding finding the help they need choosing choosing climate environmental flood smart options, so yes, we're hoping that we would be able to Where appropriate be able to help people figure out how to do that and You know, I think we all know those of us who Live in the fire into the building that old Buildings built, you know prior to the In the early 20th century or before sometimes not easily retrofitted with heat pumps But yes, we're we've had these conversations with efficiency Vermont and we're trying to steer people to To figure out how they can take advantage of rebates or other types of financial assistance and You know figuring out And that's the technical assistance that we talked about trying to get somebody in to determine whether a heat pump is something that is appropriate in this building or not, so So yes, we're hoping to do that like I Have a question and I Think it's a real important question because a lot of people I think what we Dodged about wood that you know we the damage wasn't as bad as it was But especially people who don't have really big projects It's it's probably overly hard to get contractors for those kind of jobs, you know The bigger jobs, you know contractors are willing to do I don't even just in terms of getting a little something done before Before the floods in my in my house to get a plumber to come in to do something was very difficult And I know him, you know, but he's backed up and just to get right after my knee surgery to get a banister put up it's like pulling teeth, you know everyone says well we're so busy and You know people who I know very closely. They just said they're just so backed up. I Don't know where the solution is because if there's a lot of people who need maybe they don't need a full-time Contractor like a handy. They need maybe more handyman types. I Don't know what the solution is and just I feel for the people who need work But it's it's going to be really hard especially because it's not just us It's Montpelier Barry Johnson, etc. So the Contractors in this whole area are just They're they're at their wits end. Yeah, we we understand that quite quite Yeah, so one of these things will be having an instruction committee, right? We'll both be reaching out to folks to sit on that You know Leap has already agreed to put that out to its members and you know kind of see if people are interested in that But one of the pieces about having the official designation from FEMA Right, which doesn't come with FEMA money. I want to be clear on that right, but it does me I mean we're on the map. It will be this is who's serving this territory Means that we have access To these volunteers some of which are construction our skills construction folks right and these are these are groups that do this all over the country and I say on these calls, you know on Thursdays for the Vermont boad Which is volunteers active in disaster and there are people saying when can we come? We just need to know that there's a group to host us and assign the work So that's you know, there will we hope right be be folks who can do that and then that there will be you know folks who are willing to Maybe do some of that handyman as a volunteer, right if we can provide the guidance and direction Cuz I think there's like I know from working with FEMA in the past disasters as To I don't think Them using like the small handyman Contractors kind of within their belly when they want more licensed people and stuff like that instead Someone who could you know do a little plumbing work, you know Electric, you of course you have to be a licensed electrician, but plumbing plumbing too, but but a lot of people do rely upon You know to get some basic stuff done. They rely upon people who are just skilled Not licensed and that's a that's a problem Liz or Bill are you able to get FEMA money for your volunteer work that you're doing? I know the town has been successful in getting volunteer reimbursement. Well, not successful yet There's some successful noise in the back In terms of what we will get access to from FEMA so the state has a Has put in a request for disaster case management money Right and that will be awarded And that will be awarded to first of the state the state will RFP and awarded contract Our hope like that, you know potentially would be capstone for the cap agencies and They will be available to us as resources and they will have access to the disaster Fund money that the state holds Right in and the Vermont Community Foundation money So it is not money to do the for us to do anything except we will be able to provide a conduit for access That people would not otherwise have access to because you have to have a case manager Right according to the FEMA rules Right to get access to what they call the last dollar It's a dollar of last resort. Was that the money that was just released today There was money additional money's the least of Vermont today. No, it is still and there's a This is so that there's a whole disaster case management though There's disaster CDBG. There's a whole bunch of different money that will come Right, there's disaster AmeriCorps folks that we will try to see if we can get one of But, you know, so we'll we'll benefit from that But it's not FEMA does not give recovery groups money. They give them access to money other questions Alyssa I Just wanted to start off by saying thank you to both of you and echoing Bill's comments about Liz Just thinking about a group of you continuing to meet weekly It's been a lot of weeks and that's a not insignificant time amount So thank you to you and thank you to the folks online as well who are doing this and being in it for the long haul And it really is adding a lot to the community. So thank you My question would be what is the best way for us as a select board and a municipality to receive updates from you all And just stay in the loop about what you're doing Is that just through the Tom being on the board and that type of overlap or would you envision some sort of regular schedule? Still figuring it out is a great answer to but just curious what your team would be Well, I think we can come anytime that you'd like us to come When things start to coalesce and things really start to to happen maybe will You know, they'll be press releases We as I said, we haven't really begun soliciting donations yet But we'll be happy to keep you in the loop any way that you ask You know, if you want us to come Every quarter to a meeting. I'm sure somebody can make it Are you gonna have a website or is there? Minutes open they're talking about that. Yes Yes, I think somebody has the capability Yeah, but Tessa just bought our domain today Yesterday so we're getting there right kind of the Femus number one thing is they want the bylaws and they want the MOU with our W. And I just want to put in a plug here. Our W has been amazing We're so grateful like we're so lucky to have this and so lucky that they have been, you know Christopher Adams and Matt Larson have been alternating board meetings like that providing lots of support and resources You know, Christopher's housing background is particularly cool and you know, Matt's nonprofit background is amazing So we're just so lucky that we have all these folks you know Mame and Bill were the only ones who are really doing this the last time around right and so lots of us are learning You know that the nuts and bolts of doing this, but it is I think it would be a collaborative effort With all the non-profits in the community Right from the Legion, you know to the senior center to the food shelf just for everybody to be able to say this is what's happening Here's where we send people and when the next pandemic comes the next thing, right? That we are able to mobilize people to take care of their neighbors, right? Which is something I think that what a very has been really good at over the years But it might be time to formalize that a little more Thank you for taking this initiative Mike. Will you be seeking 501 C3 status? We have that I know that's true Rw the bylaws Stipulate that you know, we're not for profit talks about 501 C3, but it's not a high priority yet All the donations will go to Rw For those of you are watching who might be interested in sending some money If you send a check, it's to revitalizing water brain Just put a note on the on the note line on your check that it's for crew They'll You know be making sure receipts are sent and it's fully taxed the doctor That's a that's a good way because especially people who are looking at making larger donations They do it for the goodness of their heart, but they also like the tax donation, right? Yeah, Danny, really, thank you so much and all the on the call And just for folks right now in town who might still be looking for help or want to reach out after hearing this Are they still emailing water brain? Yes for now. Yeah Yeah All right There's any more questions, so I want to thank you for everything you're doing and thanks for coming up and reporting Probably a lot of Next item on the agenda is road salt use Tom do you have I know that you've attached something? Mind talking us through this sure I spent some time Also reached out to friends with a new ski and haven't gotten any good Salt impacts on the watershed locally. There's some information on the website and we're not We're not one of their highest areas of concern the data. I do have is interesting and that Our salt levels It's for the summer period the data I have but our salt levels and the river century go up with every storm Which just tells you the home's actually all the room is throughout the summer So I can only imagine that in March and April. It's quite a bit worse We we put our heads together and thought about the roads My push pretty hard to get some consideration for some roads and Waterbury Center, I thought There are some portions of roads that are flat enough And straight enough that we could have concerted those areas Neal and flats is an easy example and flats is in the name But but their their pushback was essentially forget about the posts be them and so's are really 45 on our fifth month roads for people So they thought it'd be it just be unsafe in the end So the list we came up with is substantially in the old village probably entirely in the old village So And a little river road might be a great example because there's a brand new road that we just might never salt We left out a few roads just thinking about the traffic and especially the truck traffic But in essence where we didn't get an exact number of the mileage of paved roads we have but we're a 10-12% of our paved roads Price of salt this year is going from $82 a ton to 90 So any savings we get from this is is completely offset by the price increase in salt And and there's going to be consequences to this if this is adopted those roads Now the challenge they have is when it's really cold and the snowstitch to the road They just can't clear it completely So you wind up just driving on this hardpacks now for some period of time They're not super concerned about intersections They feel like the main roads are salted heavily enough that that the intersections sort of naturally, you know and migrates Onto the side roads a little bit And we'd spend a little bit more on sand naturally if we're not salting So this is not a cost savings measure. I think it's a measure that's a little bit better for the environment But I don't I don't profess to say there's a single nickel saved through this proposal The this item spent a lot of time in part a lot If you wouldn't if you remember Those of us that do remember Did you just run why this initiative came forward? Why are we moving forward with those salt policy? This came forward My recollection is that the request of Chris Viennes? Yeah Who has suggested to me at length that we both over salt and over sand? I'm not sure I agree at the same time. I think these are lower speed limit roads flat roads And I think we're not impacting public safety by doing this and there's no pride of authorship from from our perspective If you wanted to Say keep doing what you're doing and and you don't have to know cell policy I'm not going to argue against that if you wanted to consider additional roads or subtract roads or say hey, let's try this For a certain period of time That's fine. We're not we're not arguing for or against this policy We're a hundred percent agnostic from a standpoint of but also from environmental standpoint What you said earlier indicates that the soil is saturated with salt. Sure, which is probably not a good thing Okay, I Perked up when you brought up meal and flats and the speed limit because that is a constant complaint from residents of that road If if the concern is that if we don't salt it people will hit high speeds in a 40 mile-up on out You know if they're getting 45 50 miles an hour and a 40 mile-an-hour road and it's not salted They're gonna get in a car accident, but if they know it's not salted. Maybe they'll actually drive the speed limit It's on a bus and you know, there's no bus on sunset drive There's no bus only view terrace, but there's a bus on meal and flats and I want my kids on that bus to be a salty road I want him on a safe road. Okay, so I It's not about speeding for me. I have Well, it could be it could be both and then we did research a bit low salt policies and The observation We did a little bit of research made some calls But the real observation is you'll find areas in Vermont where you drive and you see a little salt sign and it's a discretion of the operator So what maybe low to one is not low to the other so we think if you want to control it no salt Is the is the only really to do that and most these roads that you've identified here road their dead ends or short The sort of suburban type roads that people are gonna have tough times speeding on like I Do agree that if people know that the roads are not solved it They will slow down. I think that's a it's it's a behavioral thing I think I'm saying everyone but there will be some people that I don't care what you do They'll drive like a bat out of hell, but I think I Know when I see those, you know, I've seen them in the Adirondacks quite heavily You see the no or reduced salt area You make the effort to go a little slow and I think that's where I think some people need to look at what What their behavior is, you know, we have had people come before us wanting to have like Guptal Road going going down to 25 hours at 25 miles per hour which I Know previous town Andrew and me agree. It's a it's a public thoroughfare and what the speed limit is Okay, so the problem is people are not going, you know, the 40 miles per hour they're going 50 and 55 and 60 miles an hour and you know, maybe if there is an Eternal advertising campaign that people to like slow down there are kids out there, you know The average person will get that message There are some that won't Yeah, I mean I hate to continue to rat out my son but Yeah, he's now 18 almost 19 and learning all the time, but He is one of those people that Will pass by a no no or low salt sign and not even see it And I don't think you're going to be affecting his behavior with with that sign And but you know putting up signs, maybe another question is that something that you're considering I know again personally, I feel like this is a Good way to start on roads where we're not worried Too much about speed See what happens and then maybe move to roads that are gonna have more faster moving traffic Other comments Danny. I'm curious how If we chose the proposed roads and implemented this winner What would be our method of collecting feedback or data to see success or not? In terms of like So it depends how we measure success is it is it by doing this and not impacting public safety Is it looking at salt in the news? I'm hoping friends of the news key can can be a friend to us in that regard Trans public safety there is there is Presumably accident data we can access might be surprised if there's not I haven't looked into that personally Do you have any idea of one year would make an environmental Positive impact or it would need to be a longer term. I think it'd be need to be a very long term entry So perhaps the first year would more be like making sure there wasn't a negative public safety impact and then ongoing environmental Yeah, listen, I appreciate the How did you phrase it agnostic staff perspective? I would say just personally I certainly am taking the recommendation of the public work structure and I report person at face value So I have no notes on the roads. I guess my thought is is this a pilot program You know, I I guess to say like I had no strong inclination to Adopt such a policy but recognize there may be merits. I guess my question along Danny's lines is like Do we try it for two months? And if we hear quite a lot of feedback in two months? We revoke it. Do we set an amount of time? We want it for I do want to just say out loud that I appreciate it That there is the note around if there's a storm that results in a significant layer of ice asking for discretion And certainly think that's a really important caveat to have to ultimately say we want town staff to do whatever they think is safe But let's say I'm not opposed to it I am not particularly championing it so my framing would be that we try it and in my view if there is no impacts Then maybe we'd want to continue it Could it be something that was in your like in your town manager report? Maybe monthly on for the winter or even bi-monthly and sure Kind of keep us posted Well, yeah We have to make the paper violent tar after anyway And then she'll put it in the paper great After listening to what Alyssa has to say I totally agree. I'm not I share the same opinion of the town employees we can either do this or not do this and This all to me this almost feels like a waste of our time because unless we get data That salt is going down on the river. It was all for nothing and we put we have created a potential Public safety risk by not salting the roads in that inevitability Well I say I don't think I think we're intentionally choosing to not create public safety risk by using strategic recommendations for roads Where there weren't safety concerns, so I Just want to be clear I think we're doing this because it is the desire to reduce salt usage without impacting public safety So that is a premise of my support of policy Okay in response to your question It's a very defined Scientific basis that salt does have an adverse effect on our rivers. Absolutely You know, it's it's a concern you tell cut any of the river river groups there they're getting more and more concerned about it So I think it's to me it's worth Trying and it would be nice to have some sort of benchmark is that how we can measure what the effects on our rivers Who would care to present a motion on this? I'll move that We adopt the no salt policy as proposed On a trial basis for the winter 23-24 season Moved and seconded any further discussion. I just want to point out a couple of the streets Wallace Avenue listed I think is actually Wallace Street If that's the one here in the village just past Crossroads. They still live And Healy Court is I believe H E a L Y just for you know, it's funny What do you I had that would he change this down really? So, I mean, I don't know what maps there are from the past So those are the only two that I noticed but other than that Is Randall being left out for yes, because there's drainage issues on Randall Who didn't know that? Oh Yes Yeah, you certainly can add it No, we'll just leave I Have a motion on the floor. It's been seconded any further discussion hearing done. I'll never say hi Any post any abstentions, okay? No salt policy Appointed roads for this winter Next time on the agenda is the committee application process Sure, so I just took a stab with the goal in mind of standardizing how Community folks can apply to be part of a commission committee or board Right now. I think the process is simply sending Karen an email They're coming in anywhere from I want to be on the board to like four page letters with six resumes So the idea here, although I didn't stipulate length in the first Paragraph it says I think a resume and a cover letter and we can stipulate I didn't say like one page But we can do that Just standardizing how the information is coming in so that when we're receiving it We know it's going to be consistent And without overdoing it. It's very simple basic information that shouldn't be a barrier to application and Yeah, I think I think there's more to talk about in terms of the process of our decision-making But this was the I think lowest hanging fruit to kind of ease the process along a little bit So happy to hear feedback This is mostly just an amalgam of a whole bunch of different towns throughout Vermont and took what I felt was not Not too big of an ask for folks and felt like good information for us to have so Ready open for feedback Don't one one question For the board overall is that would you intend to have Individuals whose appointment lapses and are reapplying fill out this form just something to think about I took that into mind. Oh, maybe I took it off. Yeah, I just put how many years have you served? So yeah, I think it would be up to us how much we wanted whether it's just this page and Not the cover letter and resume again or yeah, I don't know that we would need a Full application from somebody who's been serving but we have to reappoint them, right? and I Don't think it's a bad idea for them to fill out a short form page-long to If they want to run for another two years or whatever They're ten years and one other just a small thing I'd suggest thinking about is You know almost putting a check marks on this To let people know that All the select board policies that you adopt apply to those board members too. Oh, great So they should just be aware that We've got ethics comes with those things And there's a place on the website to find that You're suggesting that that application is is necessary for Appointment, but not the resume and cover letter. Yeah, that's what I would recommend And Danny, I think what we put was great. The only thing I would add would be and or a brief Yeah, we can make it like a one page because it maximum two pages because some people already have that More than two pages here Can you watch dishes I can make those Any other comments Alyssa own the other minor is one thank you Danny for making this I think personally I'm most interested in a short cover letter detailing Background experience and interest in the border commission. I think though we are incredibly fortunate to have really Folks with really relevant experience if you're really interested in attending a relevant boarding commission to me That does really count for a lot So I think we want to welcome that diversity of experiences personally I would be okay with ditching mention of a resume because I personally hate updating my resume I guess if folks do already have them Or resume but I can make it more clear that that would be off to me I think I'll one the consistency of a And I honestly think of this like we're calling it an application, but like a cover in form And then I would just say Karen would do for you in terms of you've been really good about giving us the terms And just figuring out what the best way I know you usually and put them in the announcement right of like what it is So we could just just making sure folks know where to find that information So you're not having to field all those questions like right now this says name of commission and term And so I think that's straightforward from your posting But just would want to check with you because you get the interesting point because you know, we have the once a year big Now we have a big conceit, you know, I don't even know off the top of my head what the term is an uninspired term is So I guess when I list it as an open seat, they can just put they can Yeah, they don't they don't have to say the unexpired 1.5. They can put open seat like we're gonna But I think what you're asking me illicit when you're reviewing them So, you know what seat they're interested in for this. I'm just ringing. I think and again, we don't think we need to work It out real time, but I think we just want to work a ball thing Exactly like and some of them have been easy like I know we had one where it was like Do you want the one or the two words and people could say either? But again for those we can also leave perm out, but it's I just think we are constantly asking And it's okay to not know but what I will Excuse me for a second. You think back Stacy Lambert Lambert. I think it's her name She actually didn't want the full right and that's what we gave her because we Strat of everything so be good There could be a real need for that to be there What we're resident yes, no Can we accept people non-residents? Yeah, I say this is a really interesting I have heard very varying practices to different talents I would say in practice in Waterbury my experience had been that almost everyone is a watery resident and I think for maybe DRB or planning Commission with your quasi judicial it's statutorily required But I have heard of other municipalities can't be in particular smaller and more rural municipalities We're having other folks the other scenario. I've heard is something like a homelessness task force Or sometimes Staffors from a relevant agency who don't may not live in the town maybe on a committee I'm not saying we have to do that But like I'm thinking of Leek which we mentioned which is our energy committee I know there is someone from efficiency Vermont on that committee. I do not know offhand if they are Things like that, but I would say our regular kind of statutory Orgst and stuff like that be hesitant to but yeah, I do again So that's the only because I work in some smaller rural towns I know there's some like planning commission members don't live in the town Which I find wild, but I don't know is disallowable And the other consideration here is that you know, we've got Duxbury right across the river here which has very small governance structure And depends on Waterbury for its schools Well, I mean we're together in a school district But the school itself is here and a lot of other services are based here and not over there and I'm just talking with Cindy Senning over the weekend and she was on the Restorative Justice Committee here in Waterbury serve for 70 years and You know, I don't know whether that's a committee over which we have any particular jurisdiction But you know, I don't know why we would refuse her just because she happens to live in Duxbury Okay, so I can take the suggestions and make some updates and then maybe send it your way Share with everybody and go from there Okay, thank you very much. Yes. Thanks Yeah All right next item is the local option tax policy Sent out a memo I didn't have a question about this I'm sorry. No, but why are we looking at this memo again? So The select board meeting when we discussed it at some length I Don't recall Tom Stevens saying this but Teresa Having an adopted policy Would make it a little easier for her to shepherd this through the legislature. I will say that Stowe Stowe's did Stowe's simply I Don't know if they formally adopted a policy for their position simply was to use it to reduce property taxes so Some towns have extensive policies and some towns have Essentially make the decision each year during their budget process, you know, when I read through it I came away with just two things that I might want to Adjust and one is that Well, you say that a formal housing was is one of the Areas where we could direct funding because it's part of For the economic development and community vital community mentality efforts I think it would be helpful to add Affordable housing in there specifically has its own category. No, we just economic development comma affordable housing and community vitality efforts And then the other thing was at the end You said that in Stowe, for example, the manager notifies the select board about his intent or their intent to a point Department head. Oh, that was the other part that That's from the other part of the charter that we don't need to have Okay, and this is just a local option tax policy. Okay I was just going to suggest that we increase that to 15 days as opposed to seven because Just to avoid having to have a special session Be able to deal with this on a regular our regular schedule Yeah, to me if you were to add affordable housing to that part of the policy Looks great to me Listen, um, I Guess use things one just to address your point right just I want to get clarification Tom You didn't say I think the language as proposed right now is saying that it needs consent from the select board But there's a specify the manner so we can say internally It's 15 days via email or whatever we want the charter isn't that specific I think because I completely agreed with your point when you said Roger that we don't want it to be seven days but we can after the fact determine what that looks like on The other I just want to say in terms of Policy so I guess one in terms of like why we're discussing it as I think as we're getting closer to public hearings I also just anticipate it's gonna be a question We're gonna get and want to have time for us to discuss and then in terms of policy are we saying essentially at a future meeting we could adopt a policy which is including all of the proposed bullets from As proposed by the manager I guess one I did want to say is I think since this we had the Presentation from the auditors and the whole overall deficit in the undesignated fund balance and I just wrote what auditors But to me I guess there is a question for us around like are we do we want to draft a policy with that 10% as A fixed number and then said the other 90% is to be proposed annually out of this collection of bulleted uses to be clear I wouldn't be supportive of that. I just want to Again not pigeonhole ourselves. It's this really hard balance between I think like we talked about like with ARPA I know we did get public comment to be effective like our folks gonna be able to weigh in every year So what's a policy that both again gives us big box parameters and then lets us To the extent we want to say, you know within those big box parameters This is what we came up with this year and again, I think within the if I'm counting Three black bullets plus four if we're including this fun balance piece We could probably do that I have a question Tell me to answer that first or Sure, so the fun balance piece It's gonna be a challenge to kind of take some time To sort itself out the way I envision this if we If we thought in a budget year $700,000 in local tax rate local option tax revenues would come in We'd basically budget for 10% of that to just go straight into our fun balance. So it'd be more or less off budget And I think I think all the numbers I presented have been pretty conservative. So I think we could do that And then I view I guess if I want maybe this one form the policy a little bit if I had to preview The 2025 budget You know, we've lost our local source of gravel and sand so we've got to go further for it We're thinking that our next Public works vehicles are going to be the big 10 to Mackville dump trucks because they can haul 16 yards and You've only got one of those now Our other trucks whole half that if not less and we we tend to do that work on bad weather days when we can't do other stuff So there's a couple big piece of equipment that we might want to budget for and buy in a future year and pay for with cash from the local option tax I Think a lot about recreation facilities You know, I'm we're nearing the finish line of getting some answers in the pool And I'm assuming if the community decides that they want a new pool I'm assuming it's gonna be a three four million dollar investment Never mind our small tired recreation building so there's some Some big numbers headed down the pike some are discretionary and some really are not And also I'd also like to in 2025 consider we've got some smaller debt I'm since like trucks that we bonded for and it'd be nice to just kill those with cash And then going forward our budgets easier because we've got the debt just out of the budget So I view it as a tool to in a lot of respects manage debt Which I think is probably the most effective way to use it. I was gonna just add There's also our Constituents are also going to be hit by an increasing Education tax and District is going to be going for another bond vote One of these years it'll probably go through to rebuild a significant part of high school Which is going to impact the their tax pocket book as well Cames next Mike No towns low buying equipment Have you thought about instead of buying like bigger dump trucks? weighing the cost of Truck you know, you know having a contract with you know xyz hauler to truck materials for yeah, absolutely and Is actually we were just talking about that last week If we buy a load of gravel right now in Barry We're getting it right. I believe it's 11 or 12 dollars a ton And it's you know, it's an hour round trip piece of heavy equipment We get it delivered it's 25 26 dollars a ton The chat so challenges, you know It's hard to compare those things if we get it delivered we can use that labor and our equipment for other things exact The challenge to simply hauling all the time is that when there's bad weather and we can't do road work We can frequently free one or two people up to go get gravel So if we're gonna do that it doesn't make sense to get it five yards at a time So we're gonna look into can we get a can we get a tandem with a trailer and get 20 yards something like that Because municipalities just love buying you know equipment and sometimes, you know large Corporations wind up leasing things, you know leasing services. I You know, if you've done the math, I kind of want to try to trust what what you're doing But I have to look at the cost of bonding for a 16 yard Dump truck Yeah, we'll talk about that more in the 2024 And if we did then if there's an intent to buy a truck, we're not gonna get it in 2024 anyway exact So yeah, it's a long-term challenge Part of my hope is if we had this taxes and in future budgets we could Ask the voters to approve buying things like trucks paid for with the local option tax Exactly, that's I think with the attractive thing is getting some outside sources to pay for some of these expenditures that we do have because you know, you know back in the old days, you know, we did the Town budget and everything's really discussed in finita, you know, those are the biggest items about you know Should we buy a greater? Should we you know buy a dozer and stuff like that? You know, hey, everyone has an opinion on those things Okay So we're tasked with right now just figuring out a policy so that we can sell the Charter in the state house and then after it's passed by the grace of God a Future select board can just change the policy Correct So this could really say anything as long as we can get it through the house It's in the charter. It cannot be changed. I'm not the charter at the policy Alyssa So I was going to say Aspirationally, I hope we envision a policy that will serve the community as well for many years and will help us to explain Our intent and rationale behind the charter to voters. So I guess like in terms of next steps I think in the spirit of the charter that we're not hoping this is in the charter language that we're going to sign next I Wonder if we have akin to the charter a nice one-liner of this policy governs spending for You know what a raise local option tax proceeds are to benefit one sentence that includes these four bullet points and then we could give Examples of proposed spending and then you know give this as informational, but really go for a again in the spirit of the charter like two sentence policy of saying that it's reductions or stability to tax rate funding for economic development affordable housing and vitality and efforts to streamline municipal operations as well as remove deficits period and Create that big box And then we have a second page to say here's some examples of what this would mean in practice That'd be my problem. I agree Do you want me to make that as a motion? Do we want to come back? Are you like the manager will not be here next meeting again? We don't have a time pressure to adopt it, but I felt like why not it's right in front of us. We've just discussed it so I can draft it before next meeting and Tomorrow Wednesday circulate it and give everyone plenty of time to leave them out here. Hopefully you'll have some still that's Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you. Okay. Great. I'll just warn you if I circulate it, which is which I can do is fine Just respond to me individually of comments. Otherwise, it's Great, thank you Signed warning of special town meeting Signed version And our signature is all warmed up today official this Okay, as that is going around we can launch into next meeting agenda. We have lots of nice from last meeting Yes I Mentioned I did run into this Cindy setting Apparently they had a fairly active committee that would Set up these circles restorative justice circles And bring both the victim and the alleged perpetrator in along with other community members and work through a process of identifying what what went wrong what can be done about it and how to reintegrate both parties and into the community again in a healthy way and She has since joined the school board and so she said that she's no longer involved But she thinks that there's still a committee at least nominally in place and she agreed that Generally, there's not a lot of activity here. It's more focused in the bad towns of My pillion and Barry but I would say we don't need to bring out their towns into this On what I'm restorative justice. She did a Oh at the town fair, okay, but it was in the public safety track, which I Okay Anyway, so the reason I'm interested is that I do think I would like to Acquaint if they're not already and it sounded like that officer Chuck quite win was not really familiar with it and It just seems like if this is an avenue that's available to them particularly for youthful offenders they should be aware of it and Understand how it works And we I don't know what sort of support they need Okay Back to the agenda for the 16th We have the Consent agenda and the nominations for the disaster preparedness committee Now is this When we're going to announce the nominations or this is going to be They assessing the candidates Assessing the candidates. Okay, has that been advertised? No, because I didn't have an application and I don't have a mission statement. That's right I've been busy. I will get that to you by tomorrow Is that going to give us enough time to have nominations? Yeah, we can move that to the session after if we need to Gotcha Let's go to shot if we're short we're short Okay, all right. Let's move away even if it's conservation and housing And we can always be time-intensive process and thoughts as needed. Yeah. Yeah Okay. All right, so The you'll be getting that information to you and then we can advertise for these positions and there will be interviewing Nominees in two weeks. Yeah, so what I'll do it from a porch forum post like I've done in the past, but I'll include a link to your Look at you updated tomorrow. Yeah Start accepting I think two weeks is fine. Yeah, I think people are going to see and they're going to do it right away Or they're probably not going to do it at all How about the roundabout? We do I think that's a great use of that time because Tom will be here Okay, and then there's another issue on which Tom is agnostic Which is the town meeting changes? I might suggest we name the agenda item town meeting format and plan For 2024 and beyond just speaking for myself I think that might be misleading and recalls quite a lot just to say we're having a session about what format We'd like to use if we'd like to use that format or have Conversation about a different one. I'm getting to my own personal views on this But oh, oh, no, I know I just don't want anyone thinking we're in Starting with the select board is especially for a 10-minute session. Yeah, we could have liked that The Grinch is going to kill town meeting. I would say yeah That was that was Karen. I just didn't want to cause undue stress and anxiety So what is the goal for that? It's been Discussed as to whether we should have town meeting on Tuesday Normally the day and Whether it should be at 9 o'clock in the morning doing which most working people Or many working people are working and do not have the option to take the day off unless they take personal time and towns that have moved it to a Saturday or a Monday night or Tuesday night Have found that they get more Participation yes, so it's a question about how What do we value within democracy and What Would make both sense So is that there's a goal for us to present sort of our opinions and then hear feedback from people who are here and If so then decide next steps or are we hoping to get more or hoping to get Additional public input between now and then or not until after we have that initial conversation Yeah, I don't think we have the time right now to we're not prepared for one and two We don't really have the time to discuss and come up with our Considered opinion, so I think it's more the latter just opening this up for Opinions and seeing what people have to say We can each state our point of view Mike. I don't know we're going to have uniformity on Among the whole select board as to which way I can't bet and you probably don't And just to remind her Any desire by the select board to change format of town meeting today requires approval by the voters Listen to that end I'm on wordsmithing round three and wondering about initial discussion of 2024 town meeting format. Yeah, just in the sharing with the public Intends that conversation to be and then maybe let's stretch her out to 30 minutes Settle on what you will I agree with all this change. I think that's a good one. I think too many people if they hear We're going to be clear. I think if folks have strong feeling I think we would love to hear that and with Danny around managing I just don't know that work. I personally have no intent of trying to do that outreach in the next two weeks And being informative and recognizing we do have this charter conversation happening at the same time You know again, we have an agenda item so I can share old views, but again my leaning has to do with some of those things. I Am wondering and I don't In regards to that only time because you've joked about it and please feel free to say no I'm not asking this but you've mentioned your proposed budget timeline In your dream while not wanting to hold you to it I don't know if any of that would be useful for that conversation just in terms of if you have broad strokes So that's not a formal request. I'm just saying if Hypothetically you said I it as a manager and planning to present a budget on this time frame I'm thinking that information might be useful for that, which you don't have to tell us right now I can but the history Before me is that the serious budget conversations didn't happen until the new year For the most part And I don't I don't think We need to wait that long because waiting for a couple months of spending to close out this year isn't going to inform 2024 that much So my goal is to give you a draft budget That I've gone through with department heads here Down to the tax Revy and tax levy and tax rate By Christmas so when we're discussing the budget In January we're understanding Hey, here's where we're at You know if the tax rate increases x percent and that's too high Then we can review budgets in that context But my goal is to not present Department by department first but to give you the overall view okay, I'm just looking Christmas It seems like our first meeting is going to be the fourth and then the next will be the 18th And then we won't meet until January if it's a tougher budget. I'll probably wait until after Christmas to email Please do we But essentially It'll be a question of arriving at that first meeting in January informed or less than informed Jumping we've got 30 minutes in the future. Thank you All right, anything else you want to put on the agenda anything you want to pull up from the parking lot I'll have one I don't for you Got a bevy of animal control we get it calls today Is her resignation was effective Essentially immediately for new cases she's gonna wrap up a few of you will sense But in reviewing our animal control ordinance it refers to a schedule of fees for civil fines An issue came up today regarding a habitually lose dog That at some point could potentially be addressed via fine We cannot find the schedule of fees So Rather than spend hours Researching in the depths of the vault. Maybe it's best to just adopt one Okay Bill is 34 years Any jumping off point whatever it is. It's obsolete. I mean If it's 30 years old $2 Okay, thank you as part of that conversation thinking about You know equity inclusion and and how we view our community. I wonder if we think about a fine being The right way to go and it may be but rather than thinking about it as that's the way we've done it So that's what we're gonna do is That the solution I think about a individually loose dog which I may or may not be this case The fine can't and won't be paid and won't change the situation and it's just going to enhance this or Continue to degrade the situation for which this continues to happen for that person and so As as we move forward with that it's just something that maybe we think about and be a part of that conversation because like Lights beating for some folks. It's impactful. So for some folks, it's not and for some folks is absolutely detrimental to their you know, well-being and finances, so Just I want to bring that up since we're starting to have the conversation and I know me out Obviously, we need to have it but just something to think about as we move forward with that discussion decision They were surrendered These and and they couldn't it was a dog because they couldn't afford to license it $15 Yeah, if we have fees of any sort that are on Pays can we leave the problem? You want a dog what you want a dog? You know when you lean a property You know, even if it's a Insignificant amount You may get paid by like a lead holder who's looking to go in there and wants to get rid of that with that lead So they may include that in there like if someone gets along so the town's do that And I'm thinking of for fees that are more than you know, $25 Right, so not so much and not so much relevant to this situation Right, so you mean yeah, I'm just saying if you have anyone paid fees Sure, so I'm a renter that can barely afford my rent and groceries and I cannot pay those fines Well, that's not good. You can't believe so that's what we're talking about We're talking about folks in a really specific situation who can't you know, I'm thinking of a whole lot. Yeah, so different probably yeah The answer to leaning a property is I don't believe we can I don't believe the legislature is authorized to lean property for for fines and fees Just for taxes and utilities Okay, okay outside of the leaning a property conversation to go back to Danny's point. I'm sort of gonna piggyback on your point and sort of not I Also think it is not fair to punish to penalize people Via their finances, I think it's dirty especially for working-class people However, even if we were to do something like that, we don't have enforcement To enforce anything. We don't have enforcement through the noise. We don't have lowering enforcement We don't have the cameras that are still in our parking lot so even if we were to hand out these fees these fees would go unpaid and What do you do you can't lean the house? You can take them to court What what is the at the end of the day, you know Like if we're finding someone 30 bucks because their dog got out 50 or whatever and then we have to take them to small claims court It's not worth it for us to do that Lisa you had something to say I Think Alyssa's gonna respond to my point was this seems ripe for a future agenda item For our next meeting, yeah, I just want to correct these bad behaviors I I think we're all the same pages wanting to correct it, but how we do that is a little bit of an issue Yeah, now listen January 10th, 2011 2011 2011 Ellis was chair The animal control ordinance fee was scheduled was reviewed Butler made a motion to approve the ACO feet schedule January 10, 2011 So if there's nothing attached to these minutes, oh, yeah, it's just pre-caring, but we know where to look That doesn't tell me where to look. I don't know. It gives me another place to try but you know, I appreciate it I looked online. I looked on the back of our website today to see if it was Hidden in there and not live So I can look at it Book 2011, you just January 10th, January 10th, I don't know what they did from packets or anything ahead of that But there was a schedule that they had And then there's this other little three-ring binder that we found little gems and Well, we got Bob Butler's memory Exactly hardwired And I can even ask Back up She remembers But in any case we're gonna have to update it or I expect we're gonna have to update it But we'll have it on the agenda Yeah, I want to see if Tom wants to be here for this but Mike and follow up to your conversation I know the Vermont League of Cities and Towns is running another epic cohort, which is ethical performance improvement program Epic it is. I'm like I knew it was ethical performance improvement curriculum or something like that. Um, anyway, it's a social justice Diversity equity inclusion type training It's a program where municipalities apply. I believe eight or nine went through the first cohort I don't have the deadline ahead of me But my question is I believe it does require the manager to be there so we might want to wait till Tom can be there But if it's due in early November, I don't know if it's worth us having an initial conversation at that meeting about if we're interested in applying Would you be interested in presenting I Can try or I can ask if someone else I mean, I am on the VLCT equity committee and we are aware that this is being run and I have materials on it But I don't know that I'm the most appropriate Okay Anything more on the training Emergency management training Applied by November 9th, so we couldn't theory wait till the 6th. Oh, yeah initial conversation. There's a conversation Mm-hmm Anything more on this I think we may be in the Ready to entertain the motion to adjourn So moved second Seconded all in favor