 Later for those of you who are joining us for the first time, the purpose of the coffee chat is to highlight the activities of units from the University of Michigan who are engaging with minority serving institutions. We also use this as a vehicle to highlight exemplars from across the campus who have a demonstrated commitment and evidence that supports their commitment and engagement with minority serving institutions. We also serve as a space where we can share research to expand our understanding and awareness of minority serving institutions, broadly speaking, of partnerships, research that supports our understanding of the students who attend these institutions and that we say we want in our graduate and professional programs here at the University of Michigan and and beyond so it serves as a space for both scholars and practitioners to share ideas best practices and other resources related to these recent these relationships and also to support students as a transition from a minority serving institution into graduate or professional program, particularly our one institution but also beyond as well. Again, I'd like to thank you all for joining us. Before we begin our conversation just a couple of housekeeping items. First, I would like to ask for you all to mute your mics. When not speaking, we'll have some time throughout this discussion and at the end for questions and discussions so please feel free to unmute yourself at that time to engage in at that moment. If you prefer not to speak verbally then you can also use the chat function I'll be monitoring the chat function along with my other Rackham colleagues. Also please feel free to use the raise hand function as well to engage in the discussion. Also, please feel free to enable the the transcription feature if if you see fit that can be found below with live transcript I've been able to on my end I believe you all can see it, but it should be an option available for you all as well. Lastly, we want to emphasize that this discussion in all discussions, facilitated by the Rackham Graduate School followed the IGR community guidelines. So with that we are in support of respectful or want to create a respectful respectful space for our invited guests for our participants to learn grow and share their vulnerabilities. So please keep that in mind be mindful of the intent and impact of our words and the impact that they may have on discussing our thoughts in this particular space. As you are for those who are just now joining us this meeting is recorded. So the folks who are unable to attend can tap into this resource moving into the future. With that, I would like to move into introducing our invited panelists for today. I will have Dr. Mike Holden when, who was an assistant professor at the University of Denver's Morgridge College of Education, and he's also a faculty affiliate affiliate at the Scrivener Institute of Public Policy and the interdisciplinary research Institute for the study of inequality. His research examines and the benefits and consequences of public policy instruments and expanding or constraining the operations of colleges and universities with the specific focus on federal diversity initiatives. In addition to his academic work, Dr. Wynn has extensive professional experience with federal policy as well, having served as a senior staff member in the United States Congress. Dr. Wynn currently serves as a commissioner on the Denver Asian American Pacific Islander Commission, a member of the board of directors for the Southeast Asia Resource Action Center and continues to volunteer and provide research consulting for education and civil rights organizations. Most recently he was a lead author on an amicus brief on behalf of 678 social scientists in SFFA versus Harvard, which was cited by the US Court of Appeals for the first circuit in their opinion. Dr. Wynn completed his undergraduate studies at the University of California Berkeley in his graduate education at the University of California Los Angeles so if you all don't mind let's give Dr. Wynn a huge round of applause and thank you for joining us in this space here today. And with that I'll turn it over to Dr. Wynn. Well, thanks so much Edmund and thanks for reading my bio sorry that I should have said something shorter. Sorry about that but thanks so much for for the warm introduction and for for having me I'm really honored to be here and to share more about Annapesie's and and how they sort of fit into the whole MSI ecosystem so let me start by sharing my PowerPoint here and let's see. I think let me get this to go right. Okay, so I'm hoping now that you all see the main the main screen right you're not seeing the presenter view but the you're seeing the proper screen. Okay, cool. I did a whole class lecture about a month ago in the wrong view and it was very embarrassing so so thanks. So, yeah, so today I'm going to share more about this one particular MSI Asian American and Native American Pacific Islander serving institutions. Known as as Anna peasies, which is you know just a mouthful for for for a designation and so if you have trouble pronouncing it I usually say think of it like a person's name. The person's first name is Anna and their last name is peasy so Anna peasy and makes it so easy is as I like to say so. Before I formally begin though I'd like to I'd like to start with a land acknowledgement. I'm here at my institution at the University of Denver and so it's really important for me to recognize that that my institution do you reside on the traditional territories of the Arapaho the Cheyenne and the Ute and and the Treaty of Fort Laramie, both of them, as well as the succession of Ford 426 within the treaties of the Confederated tribes of the Arapaho and the Cheyenne remove these Indigenous nations from this land and so it's with much gratitude that we recognize their descendant communities that the northern Cheyenne tribe of Montana the northern Arapaho tribe of Wyoming and the southern Cheyenne and the Arapaho tribes of Oklahoma. We also recognize the southern Ute tribe and Ute Mountain Ute Mountain Ute tribe, which are Colorado's two federally recognized tribal nations. DU actually has a very tragic and horrific past in its founding and and and so and so we want to recognize that as well as work towards reconciliation and so in that are we are University author report the John John Evans report which I have a link here and I can I can send out down the line. That details are the are our university's founders in in their involvement in the Sand Creek massacre so it's important for us to share that and to acknowledge that and then as well as the land acknowledgement as a way for me to sort of think about and frame the type of work that I do in and very much so the presentation I'm about to give today. So with that, I would love to do a quick poll here but I realized that I had to set that up beforehand on the PowerPoint. So maybe I will. I will just sort of look to see I'll stop sharing and look to see hands real quick to see if have any of you heard of an appease before or is this a relatively new thing. A couple thumbs up. All right, this is great. This is I got to say this is probably one of the first times I've talked about an appease ease and it looks like about half the people in the room up have heard about it before so that's fantastic. Let me start sharing again. And so that that is fantastic. Okay, so, so I think you all know that that an appease ease are are one of actually 11 different federally federal MSI programs. I know we often hear about HBC use HSI tribal colleges but within sort of the federal purview of MSIs. There's actually 11 different different designations, each with their own funding stream, each serving a specific target population, and really it signals a federal commit to a certain extent right signals a federal commitment to students of color and and their higher education needs and so I hope that this slide shows you certainly we're going to talk about an appease ease today but some other ones that that tend to get, you know, are not as discussed as much in the literature. So just just to share that there are typically more than more than we're we're often aware of. So let me also begin then by sharing the, the an appease origin story or how they sort of came into existence, the an appease ease are the newest MSI designation, one of the newest and. And so, they were created actually in 2007. And so what Julie park and Rob turn she argue is that the work to create this federal designation really came out of a desire to increase the capacity of Asian American Pacific Islander organizations and institutions, as well as a frustration that the API needs in education were ignored or unknown. And really this motivation was fueled by advocacy efforts by community based organizations and institutions. In order to counter stereotypes about API's and to ensure that Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders were understood as a minority group, and to attach significant federal resources and funding to realize those beliefs. That big that that that big stereotype that feel the advocacy efforts to create an appease ease really stem, really is this model minority myth right I'm sure many of you have heard of it. It's this stereotype that Asian Americans Pacific Islanders achieve this universal unparalleled academic academic success right it the stereotype lumps. And all of us into this model Stacy Lee calls it a monolithic monotone, thereby eliminating ethnic cultural social class gender language, sexual generational achievement and other differences that that sort of do not represent the diversity of our community. Five major misconceptions about the model minority myth in higher education and that one it's API's are not really racial ethnic minorities. They don't encounter major challenges because of their race. They don't need any resources or need any support. Overall degree attainment numbers is equivalent to success. And of course, as we said earlier in the previous slide that they're also either viewed as all the same right as this monolithic monotone. But what we really know instead is that the community is really, really, really diverse if you are to disaggregate the racial group into two distinct racial categories Asian American and Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander. There's, there's so many more ethnicities within that these are just a handful right there's, there's in many cases over 50 different ethnic groups represented here in the United States. And so, there's no way that that all these groups can can really meet all of all of these stereotypes right when it's so so unbelievably diverse and this is just talking about sort of ethnicity and rather than all the sort of intersectional ethnic minorities that that that API is also also inhibit and identify with and so what you know we were to just look at one sort of variable and one metric. And I just noticed here that when I copied the slide over the the the ethnicities are a little bit off so I apologize for that but if you just sort of look at educational attainment within just just by ethnicity within API is and this is using census data. And you can see that there's huge and major differences between, between groups and within specific subgroups and so. And so really this, this approach to creating an appeasies was born out of really graphic like this was, which was that much of the knowledge and understanding of the educational experiences of Asian Americans and so vendors is sort of hidden. In the cover it you realize that indeed API needs need resources similar to other other communities of color, and that was sort of the big push and motivating factor for the creation of an appeasies. If I can continue with this this origin story actually dates back 21 years ago to in 2000, when the Congressional Asian Pacific American caucus or KPAC, as we call it, hosted a forum to discuss API and education issues. This actually was followed up subsequently by by a summit hosted by a C rack the Southeast Asian Southeast Asia Resource Action Center I should get that right because I'm on the board of directors. They follow that up with a summit specifically on Southeast Asian issues in education in 2001. So, because of the events put on by KPAC and C rack, the newly created White House initiative on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders or we are be issued a report with recommendations for the creation of a federal designation for API students and API serving institution if you will. So, following sort of that that that that trajectory, then Congressman underwood congress member underwood, hopefully you can see my mouse here I'm circling over him. This is the first legislation to create to create an API serving institution in 2002. Interestingly, though he actually left Congress, and he's from he represents Guam by the way he left Congress to run, run to be Guam's governor. And so the bill was later introduced in the next session by representative who out of Oregon, and and using the same language to introduce the bill. And then at the same time, a Senator boxer of California and Senator a cock of Hawaii introduced the Senate companion bill with the House bill. And at that time, Congress member who struck an understanding with Congress member of Buck McKeon, who then was chair of the House Education Committee to advance legislation. And Congress member McKeon, in that instance, asked the government accountability office to draft a report to to gather findings on the educational experiences of Asian American Pacific Islander students. And so it was a year and a half later after Congress member was request to advance this legislation from from Chairman McKeon that that the GAO release that report. The GAO, which is a federal agency, of course, an executive federal agency implicitly noted that they were not allowed to say that Congress should establish and create an Asian American Pacific under serving institution. As a federal agency that they're unable to do that. But, but instead they did so implicitly by noting that one there wasn't an API serving institution designation. And that, and they indicated that API college students at that moment in time had to rely on other MSI's HSI's HBCUs, tribal colleges, etc., in order to be to be served and so after that report was was issued there seemed to be some some really interesting momentum. Because Buck McKeon seemed to be working well with with with Congressman Wu. However, if you sort of remember your congressional history at the time this is not 2006 Democrats actually regain control of the House. And so, Representative McKeon who's actually a Republican. Now is no longer the chair of the Education Committee, and instead now the rank then ranking member now chair, George Miller, who the Democrat representing Northern California the Bay Area specifically became the chair of the Education Committee. And actually, in as chair of the committee and as a Democrat representing the Bay Area specifically the East Bay, which is just actually has a huge Southeast Asian population, and just just north just outside of UC Berkeley took over as as chair and he was actually quite convinced that an API designation was necessary. He actually argued that that if you were to create an API serving institution, it would be, it would be serving schools like Berkeley and Harvard was sort of his argument and so it's actually rather curious rather interesting that, or maybe to a certain degree, I should be actually sort of unsurprised that that that even Democratic members Congress who represent large Southeast Asian populations still have a sort of a misunderstanding and and and lack the context for for Asian American But nonetheless, thanks to the the huge efforts of C rack other API organizations in Washington DC of course members of the Congressional Asian Pacific American caucus, they were able to share research and information to chairman Miller, who then, who then realize Okay, yeah, this actually makes sense, and that, and that anti PCs are necessary. And indeed they weren't there to serve schools like Berkeley or Harvard, but instead to serve institutions where API's tend to enroll in which is actually community colleges and regional comprehensive universities. And so with that they, the legislation that had been introduced since 2002 was actually slid into a larger higher education bill, the college cost reduction act college cost reduction and access act of 2007. And so that bill move through the House in the Senate, and it was subsequently signed by then President George W Bush in 2007. So, again, if you if you're, if you're a federal political junkie like me you'll know that once a designation is created and passed and put into law as statute. It still requires of annual federal appropriations to be funded. And so that. And so it was authorized via via the college cost reduction act and production access act, but it would needed to be funded and so. And so after that bill passed Congressman Honda, who actually is is my former boss and I was on his staff for seven years. He passed a help pass an appropriations bill that included the initial funding for for an appeasies. And so that was how that's that was how it was created it was. I must admit a lot of lessons were learned. A lot of lessons were actually learned from the, the whole endeavor and experience in creating Hispanic serving institutions, which were created about a decade before. And so, if you sort of look at it in timeline wise, when the first bill was introduced in 2002, until the law was signed in 2007, a five year period to create a huge initiative like an appeasies is pretty spectacular. And so so much credit is actually given to the Latinx community for helping and consulting with API legislators and community advocates to help push and take the lessons learned from from their 10 year endeavor to create HSI's. So, so as I said, and appeasies were created in 2007 we of course as researchers think of it very much as a federal racial project. But it's unlike other other it's unlike HBC use and trauma colleges right and some more similar to Hispanic serving institutions, predominantly black institutions in that an appeasies are actually a competitive grant that provides funding for institutions, and really with two two main goals. It's to increase. This is part of the federal government is to increase access of API as well as increase persistence through retention programs. Now, because that because an appeasies are are a competitive grant. That means that not in all institutions are going to qualify and so with that. So, really this rest on to primary federal criteria one is that the institution needs to have a 10% undergraduate student enrollment that where the undergraduates identify as Asian American Pacific Islander they use iPads for that. And then the second is if the institution meets the higher education acts section 312 b basic eligibility criteria for title three and title five programs. That's a mouthful what does that really mean sometimes in the literature you see that it means that the institution needs to have 50% pal pal students. That's actually not 100% accurate. And so, section 312 bees actually has a lot more elements to it one is that actually in addition to the Pell eligibility and I'm sorry Pell enrollment, which the statute actually argues as as requisite enrollment of needy students and so, in other words, the 50% pal is one of the many metrics and institution can use to demonstrate. And so what you see here is that they have needy students other other types of finance forms of financial aid also qualify. It's an unbelievably complicated formula. And of course there's a second finance formula that requires the institution to have lower than dollars. And so what you see here is that this is an important important aspect because what it does is it. It's there intentionally in order for community colleges and regional comprehensive universities to be to be prioritized above say an R one institution that that will have a medical school which then would certainly bring up their expenditures. And so, and so that's a really important distinction to point out within the eligibility, and then of course specific to an apetite are sort of geographic requirements so so it purposefully purposefully identifies regions of the United States and in the specific where where institutions or an ap eligible institutions could could be. In addition, it's not if you actually dig a little deeper into section 101 of the higher education act. That's where it also defines that for profit institutions are not eligible to become an apesee and by the way these are really similar requirements for HSI is and all of the other what we like to call enrollment based minority serving institutions. So, given all of these requirements and eligibility requirements. What we've seen over time is that 217 colleges and universities across the United States have been historically have historically met these eligibility requirements, but given as you know shift in institutional expenditure, how sometimes institutions strive to move up in their Carnegie classification, they may slip and out of these eligible statuses and so as of right now currently in 2021. The US Department of Education recognizes that there's about 162 currently eligible institutions so you see there's actually some really really big for fluctuations over time. And then of course, of all of these institutions since 2007 38 colleges and universities have been funded as an apesees. So not a whole lot right not a whole lot given sort of the the number of institutions that currently eligible as well as historically been eligible. And then and then if you sort of put it in sort of context within post secondary education the United States and apesees really represent about 5% of all colleges and universities in the United States. But if you look at sort of this other other other pie, they enroll nearly 40% of all API undergraduate students. And so, yes, there's not a lot of them, but but they certainly, they certainly enroll the lion share of API, you know, 40% so very very concentrated API students at these institutions. Certainly over time, we also see that the enrollment has gone up right if you compare community colleges in 2013 to 2018 that there's a significant rise same thing in 2013 to 2018. A less of an increase, but, but certainly more I look forward to actually re crunching this data when when more updated iPads numbers come out for for 2021. Sort of in the same vein, with respect to degree attainment for API is same thing right we see a huge rise in increase over time. And so see it as well as bachelor's degrees of undergraduates at an apesees across the United States. So, in other words, I guess all those slides really represent is that an apesees as as little as they are in in the United States, they certainly are doing the lion share and educating the majority of the plurality of API students in the United States. And so shoulder, you know, enrolling quite a bit and graduating quite a bit. And so, as I mentioned earlier, right, there there's those three types of, I'm sorry, two types of of an apesees one is that they are eligible to be funded and then, and then of course the 38 that have actually received funding since 2007. And so what we see is that when when these 38 institutions receive federal an apesee funding, they typically establish an apesee programs on campus a specific, oftentimes, single unit on campus to serve API students. And this chair Nishi argues that you can sort of divvy them up into the responsibility into three primary categories right academic and student support services leadership and mentorship opportunities, and research and resource development. And so, with respect to academic and student support services. What we really see on the ground mean is that that they are creating critically and culturally relevant responsive curriculum, academic counseling career development, leadership development, learning peer mentorship, peer tutoring. All of this is sort of operationalized often in in in new or or classes that are that are like Asian American studies ethnic studies classes, where they're weaving in culturally relevant curriculum into into not just classes in the humanities sciences but also in stem in stem fields. And of course, there are a host of benefits to this type of approach right the literature tells us that that we see all sorts of academic and social cycle, social psych, psychosocial benefits that come from this type of pedagogical approach. And certainly, with respect to this context of an apesees, there's there's emerging new empirical research that demonstrates all of these, all of these sort of academic outcomes from from the work of apesees. And I can share all that literature. If you'd like. We also see that that an apesee programs are offering leadership and mentorship opportunities. This includes a huge and wide range of co curricular and leadership development, both on and off campus. And so again, these are framed with a critical lens that recognizes API student experiences and of course, as always, culturally relevant and focused. Again, it borrows from from ethnic studies, ethnic studies model of connecting the Academy to the community. And certainly an apesees are our natural bridges they can be natural bridges that connect API communities with API students on campus. And so we've seen that these leadership opportunities really are designed with the intention to enhance student civic engagement in their communities. And then of course, lastly, research and resource development. The federal funding that comes in is is oftentimes used to to fuel new academic research to expand new understandings of the API experience. We've seen some schools uses to disaggregate data on their campuses to show the diversity and complexity of API students, and we've also seen other institutions actually give out micro grants to their undergrads to engage in research, and not necessarily education research, but any types of research, or on API on the API experience. So it's it these three sort of together really represent some of the all the sort of different initiatives that we're seeing at some of these 38 different different apesees. Now, I'm getting close towards the end of my PowerPoint here but I certainly want to, to show this chart. As I mentioned, an apesees are the newest newest MSI, one of the newest MSIs to be created in 2007 actually predominantly black institutions were created at the at around. time in the same legislation. But if you sort of look at at at funding levels and this is last year's funding levels 2020. You'll see that there are some that the anti pieces are are are are not funded at very good levels. And certainly, you know, it's hard to not compare them to other MSIs. But I certainly don't want to just do that alone right but but certainly recognize that, that given sort of the, the large number of institutions that are eligible and at this when I made this chart that was 160 rather than 162. So sort of the the annual appropriations of a little over 9 million a year. It was sort of boils down to, if you were to divvy it up evenly amongst all 160 162 institutions. What's on about 57,000 per institution, which is not a whole lot. Unfortunately, now I'm certainly not arguing that funding should be pulled from any of these other MSI designations for an apesees that that's the last thing I want to do. Instead, I would argue that the the the pie should be increased for all of these 11 different MSI designations and in doing so, would also increase funding for for an apesees. And, and, and so looking to the future actually that's, let me hopefully you can see my mouse. Let me just bullet point first about about overall MSI funding. And so what we're actually seeing in in in the Biden Harris administration's American families plan right there, their new domestic policy that they just introduced. I think last month, it actually shows increasing funding for all MSI all 11 MSI initiatives by by by five times. So that's really, really wonderful to see so it wouldn't be just an apesees getting a five time increase it would be all of the other MSI designations also receiving a times five increase which I think would be fantastic. And so, so with that, looking sort of to the future of an apesees. We know that we expect more an apesees to be on the horizon. In fact, right now, there is a new grant competition that's that. And so schools are actually in the process of applying to receive an apesee funding. What's rather interesting is that the Department of Education has added a preference priority category. So that schools that have never received funding before receive extra points in their application. So this, I guess that is intentional from the Department of Ed. So that institutions that are not those 38 have a have a good shot of getting funding this cycle. Certainly, I'm sure if you if you had someone come and talk about HSI's that this dual designation situation is a rather interesting one. What it means is that institutions can sort of, it can only be one MSI at one given time. When we, when we know that if you look at a lot of it, an apesees, they're actually also all eligible for the most part to become Hispanic institutions, yet federal statute doesn't allow for school to receive funding for for both at the same time. Now that's actually not 100% accurate. The caveat is is let me see I can go back to slide. Hopefully you can see my mouse is that all of these MSIs are are funded actually into two different accounts there's a part a account and a part F account. So what that means is that a school cannot receive a and a PZ part a grant, as well as an HSI part a grant at the same time. However, a school can receive an HSI part a, as well as an and a PZ part F. So it's unbelievably complicated. And, and it sort of doesn't. There's no rhyme or reason why. But instead, the dual designation would allow schools to be able to apply for either part a or part F. And it doesn't matter and if they if they meet more eligibility standards for all MSIs can just apply for any of them, which I think, you know, sort of makes more sense right given that that a lot of these institutions are predominantly white institutions that over time, given shifts in enrollment demographics become eligible for all these different MSI designations. And so, and so schools can be very compositionally diverse. And in doing so should be able to be eligible for more than one one designation, especially from the viewpoint of administrators and so that is something that had some momentum. Maybe about five years ago and then it sort of went away so I know that those conversations are beginning to to to be brought up again. As I mentioned, as I, as I actually I didn't mention but what we're actually also seeing is that there's an increasingly large number of R1 institutions as well as private institutions that are striving and becoming an appease ease in minority institutions. It's a rather interesting phenomena. I point that out not that it's, it is necessarily a bad thing. But that remember from from when I shared the, the an appease the origin story that the original intent of the legislation was to make sure that funding was provided to institutions that tended to be less resource right so community comprehensive universities. Now we see, we see a lot more R1s thinking about and also private institutions thinking about applying for and finding ways to actually meet the eligibility requirements. And so you look, and certainly there are lots of students of color at these institutions and so I'm not necessarily arguing that that's a bad thing but certainly with respect to equity and for community colleges and for regional institutions as well as private institutions, that is certainly something important to talk about and to think about sort of the future of of an appease ease as well as, as well as MSIs. As I mentioned earlier with respect to funding, we're seeing, you know, the Biden Harris administration is is is all in when it comes to increasing funding for, for MSIs, and then of course, given this pandemic. We've actually seen in this, I think, fantastic that in the, in the, in the last three stimulus bills. The CARES Act, the CRSA, as well as the American Rescue Plan, all had specific MSI provisions within the legislation to make sure that MSIs, including an appease is received additional support and funding, which, which is fantastic. And then, lastly, given that an appease are the new kid on the block, and, and a little over a decade old now, there continues to be a need for much more research. And luckily there is, there is a growing and emerging body of literature, and young and new scholars that are working to contribute to this area and so really given their significant role and, and oftentimes innovative practices in educating a large proportion of API students. I really think that an appease ease are backbone for API students in the US post secondary education system. Of course, as more and more colleges as we seen in the trajectory become an appease ease are eligible to become an appease ease really incumbent upon policymakers. Those of us in higher education to think about and recommit our efforts to strengthening this program for the next generation of API students. Certainly there's much more to be learned from, from an appease ease and the work they're doing. And so, and so doing so I think will greatly benefit not only the practice that's happening at those institutions at an appease ease, but as well as that at institutions that are not an appease ease, but yet are still serving Asian American and Pacific Islander students. And so with that I would would be happy to answer any and all of your questions. And also on this slide here is the very many different types of MSIs. I'm sorry, very many different types of an appease ease across the country. And as you can see, there are a lot of community colleges, schools in the Pacific schools in the Midwest, West Coast, East Coast. And then of course, different types right Pacific University in Oregon is a private institution. You've got our ones like Minnesota and Maryland, as well as regional comprehensive like San Francisco State University. And, and UMass Boston and Queens College. So with that, I will stop sharing my PowerPoint, and that way I can see everyone. Great. Thank you so much, Dr. Lin for that presentation. It's great if we can just give him a quick round of applause, whether virtually or audibly or however you see fit. Wonderful. Now we'll take a couple more moments here to, you know, engage in a little bit of discussion here I invite you all to, as you all, since you feel comfortable to, you know, turn on your cameras to engage. And I just want to add one quick reflection that I that I have here and, and again extend my, my thanks once again. So when I first came into this role in 2017 I looked at all the DEI plans across campus and many of them identify engaging with minority serving institutions as a way to strengthen the educational pathways in the graduate professional education for, and I'm using their language underrepresented minorities right, and almost always that MSI man historically black college in a university, which I'm a huge proponent of I'm an alum of a historically black college but I think the value and this type of discussion is saying is highlighting that there are many more institutions out there that we could be engaging with and culturally and intellectually responsive ways, and there are more students out there that we can be creating pathways that are are in many cases often overlooked because we go with the institution that we are most familiar with so that's part of the reason why I want you to come into, you know, highlight highlight these institutions, a little bit more so again thank you, thank you for that. I'm going to open up the floor for, for questions here. And I know it always takes a couple seconds before we get the first question off the ground so I'm okay with living in. Oh we don't hear Sasha has their hand raised so. Thank you for that wonderful presentation, Dr when I've learned so much. And so I'm actually working with a team at Michigan looking at where our focus our research focuses really mental health and young people and we've recently become very interested in. Well, we've always been very interested in MSIs because we've had a few in our survey work, but it's been really hard to engage them. Actually, I've learned so much because, for one I've been calling an appease is a NA PI s eyes and so just having a short term has been really helpful. So I was wondering. So it looks like there's about 160 eligible and appease but only 38 that are funded so I know you talked a little bit about eligibility but I was wondering what it exactly means to be eligible so like I noticed you calculated all of the eligible institutions when discussing MSI funding. So is there some benefit for the schools themselves to be like an appease eligible but not an appease funded. With respect to funding before. First things I should, thanks to I should probably start by saying thanks so much for the great question and for sharing that I'm glad that that the yeah and appease is the that you can easy to learn when you think of it as a person's name. So great, great question. And before the pandemic. I would say, I guess there really isn't a benefit to to being an eligible and appease from a monetary standpoint, right, certainly, when institutions become eligible. Oftentimes you see schools put out a press release saying that you know they meet you know they're, they're, they're designated now which is actually not true per federal statute. It's actually I was talking to somebody else about this this morning. It's actually the Department of Education spot because they misuse that language in their in their in their on their websites but in law. They do not schools do not become designated if you read you know if you look at the higher education act. So that's a fun federal fact if if if you care about any of that stuff. So, so, so to a certain extent, I think it's great that schools strive for that and then they, they put out a press release hopefully to meet hopefully that means you know that they, even if they're not receiving funding that that they are beginning to show some commitment to serving API students on their campus in whatever way they can with whatever resources that they currently have. In a in a coven world though, as I mentioned, you know we've Congress has passed three lot three stimulus bills, right cares act CRSAA and then most recently the American rescue plan. And in those three, those three pieces of legislation those stimulus bills. And there was, as I mentioned there was specific carve out funding for all MSIs. And, and in that though that the funding was actually given to all eligible institutions and not just funded or previously funded institutions. And so if you were eligible, then you received funding because of your eligibility status so that's actually the first time ever. For HSI this goes for predominantly black institutions this goes for Alaska native serving institutions native Hawaiian serving institutions, all those other. What I like to call an enrollment based MSI so this is actually the first time, at least from what I've seen that the federal government has provided funding for eligible institutions. So, so yes there is now a benefit for it. And hopefully my hope is because they receive funding under those designations that then if schools didn't know that they were eligible. Now we'll think about potentially figuring out how to apply and or serving either their API Latin X, Native American and African American students on their on their campus. So that answers your question. Yes, it does. Thank you and I'm sorry I don't want to take up too much space I just have a really quick follow up question to my question which was. So you mentioned in terms of the funding you mentioned that a lot of times, these anti PCs could also be categorized as Hispanic serving institutions. So based on this funding chart that you discussed like would it make more, what would it be more appealing for schools to to kind of apply for Hispanic serving institution funding because they would get more money. So like, for instance, you know my home state, I mean, my home state of California, every just about every anopeezy, every eligible anopeezy is also eligible to be a Hispanic serving institution. So, so there's a lot of overlap there, you know, in states like California and to a certain extent in Illinois and in New York. You know, so there's a lot of overlap there. If you look at that funding chart again, and I can share a report that we had with up with the exact same numbers. And certainly, institutions that are that are eligible for HSI, there's a lot more funding attached to that. Not only is there more funding but there's actually two other HSI designations that are federal, federally funded right HSI stem and post back to these for Hispanic Americans right so those other types of HSI is and so and so there's actually, if you add it all up there's actually a lot more money in HSI is and so there's actually, you know, no empirical research to show, not yet at least I imagine someone will eventually do that type of work to sort of see the tensions that play out between it does it how does an institution decide which of these designations it wants to go for. And so I think we can avoid those tensions by essentially opening it up for all institutions right, but I do know from sort of firsthand gossip knowledge that that that certainly they have been institutions that that have been awarded both have been awarded a HSI part a and an APC part a, and then have decided to go to withdraw themselves from the an appease grant because the HSI grant was double sometimes double the amount of funding right I sort of can't fault anybody necessarily for doing that. I mean, I can't fault the college admit a college president for doing that because they certainly want as much money as they can get, especially if they're an under resource institution. But I also want to acknowledge that there's there's a lot next students that that that need services and support at these MSIs and so maybe the best solution is to make sure that all minoritized students on the college campus can can can can receive resources from the federal government should also note that those percentages are like our arbitrary right, I mean, how did they come up with 25%, how do they come up with 10% for these, you know, the, you know, this was, you know, these are federal as Gina Garcia says these are federal constructs that policymakers made up just sort of put given given. Those those percentages just sort of based on us population numbers right at the time API is made up about 5% of the national population. So they said, oh yeah 10% seems right about right. So, so that's sort of how how, and it sort of also falls in line with other types of MSIs. So for the non tribal serving Institute, non tribal Native American serving institutions. That's also a 10% requirement. So, you know, they're sort of trying to make the using other MSIs to sort of keep match up and and keep things somewhat consistent. If you want to say that Congress members have infinite wisdom that's sort of the, that's sort of the, that's sort of the thinking there. Thank you so much. Thank you for the great question. Hi there. I have a question for you. Thanks so much for Professor Nguyen for that great presentation. I work with a lot of Asian American and Pacific Islander students that you have I coordinate one of our ethnic graduation celebrations and the Asian and Pacific Islander celebration and it's one of the most recent So, in my opinion really complicated because we're trying to serve Asian students, Asian American Pacific Islander. And so I kind of have two questions for you if we have time, but my kind of overarching question is how is the creation of an appeasies. How does that bring in Asian American and Pacific Islander students into programs that are, that are for underrepresented minorities which do not include Asian American, which don't include a API students so how do they kind of get folded in or are there new sorts of programs created for API students. And with that, is there, are there different services provided for Asian American students versus PI and Native Hawaiian students or is it, they're all kind of lumped together. What a great question. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. You know, the answer is sort of, to answer sort of your most previous question is sort of yes and no, right. You know that other the slide that and you mentioned this and the other that one of the slides I had shows really how diverse and complex API's are and and that's just broken up by ethnicity right not even including all the other intersexual identities that that that that API's hold and so the sort of complication here is that it is. As you mentioned that sometimes API students are not understood to be have minor ties identities right and so a lot of institutions won't include them in their in their in their u r m variable right if they use that term still underrepresented minority in their u r m variable. And so, and so that that that can be a huge problem right and a lot of that sort of is is again focused on on that stereotype that we can, you know, we're trying to shake all the time that model minority that we're trying to shake but that it is so pervasive. It is so pervasive in that you had members of Congress who represent underserved Southeast Asian populations think that and if he's not necessary because all API's go to Harvard and go to Harvard and yet those are their constituents. And so it is pervasive. It, you know, he's a progressive liberal guy I don't want to hate on Chairman Miller who's, by the way, on that slide, all of those members of Congress, as well as President Bush obviously all retired now are not serving anymore in the house so just a fun fun point. But, but but so it that that stereotype that understanding or lack of understanding of API is so pervasive I think that that makes it really really calm makes it harder for folks to understand potentially as well as for us to think about how do we provide programs and services. Just to answer one of your other questions and certainly because of the diversity and complexity. It also means that students are going to have different needs they're going to have different life experiences right. You've got, you've got East Asians who have a very unique history of immigrating to the United States you have Southeast Asians who came as refugees. Native Hawaiian native Islanders who were always here and are are are in their lands were colonized through settler colonialism right so all of those experiences are so different. And so having to be able to I think what makes me on the PC so great is that if use if those funds are used intentionally they can provide specific programming and funding for all of these unique populations. Why are we if it were so different why are we all lumped together. Some of that has to do with with the way we're all racialized to sort of be the same right, but also, you know, in you know, in the words of Dr. Yanley spare to us coming together as a pan ethnic movement to create political power. And without that, that that the fact that we're racialized and thus sometimes treated similarly. As we as we call us together through pan ethnic movements then we can create political power to, as I sort of talked talked about at the beginning. Push in advance legislation to create these, these initiatives so that duality is playing out all the time right is that we are coming together because we have some shared experiences but then we're also simultaneously very diverse very complex very different have different needs. And I think the message I always like to give is that it's not one or the other it's always both for API communities always both at the same time. And that needs to be that's that's sort of the message that I'm constantly trying to push and advocate for. So that was really long winded hopefully I answered your question in that process. Thank you. Yes. Unfortunately, we are at time and I want to respect every everybody's time. Once again, thank you all for joining us and kind of engaging in the space. Thank you, Dr. when for your thoughtful presentation and thoughtful responses provided here within. I hope to have you back again in the future to whatever extent you're willing to join us. And then lastly, I want to invite everybody out to our next coffee chat, which will be held June 23. I'll drop the registration information information will have folks from Fisk University Vanderbilt University to talk about their fixed master's to PhD bridge program that they have there. But again, Dr. when incredible. Thank you for your time energy and for a good day much appreciated. And then thanks so much for having me and thank you all for attending and maybe if I ever have the opportunity to talk to you again, I'll explain why the word Native American is in there when, when, when anti pieces are not intended to serve indigenous populations but that that can be for another time. Thank you so much.