 So at Churchill High School, Janice Hart helped us prepare portfolios to get into Carnegie Mellon. And Carnegie Mellon at the time offered in our senior, in our junior summer, and you could apply to go to art camp here at CMU. And that's, and it was a three month program or a six month program, a six week program. I can't remember which, but I got into it and that's where I met Herbolds and a number of the other professors here and created some of the best work I think I've ever done. They were, they were inspiring and they were amazing professors. We painted the elevator in the fine arts building at midnight one night because that's what you're supposed to do. And I think there were about 15 of us in the class and it was fine arts. It wasn't graphic design at the time. And Herbolds would come over to me and he would bop me on the head when my piece was done because he said that I had a tendency to noodle it, those are his words, to sort of overdo a piece. So it likes just say, oh, it came too quickly and it probably needs more. I need to do more to it. So he would say, no, stop here. And then I got into Carnegie Mellon, saw Herbolds again, which was one of my mentors and then got into the graphic design department because I needed to make money. I knew that artists were going to, not that they were going to start, but artists were going to have a hard time making a living. And being an immigrant's kid, I needed to make money. I needed to show my parents that the money that they saved and got me into college with was going to go towards something. So I thought a graphic designer would be great. Although my parents thought I was going to Carnegie Mellon to become an art teacher. I never told them that I wasn't going to do that. I figured they'd find that out at graduation, which was fine. I also, because Carnegie Mellon was expensive, Pitt would have been free. Carnegie Mellon would not have been free. I took night classes. I basically went to school as much as I could and finished most of my requirements in the three years as opposed to the fourth year. And my fourth year CMU requirement was that you took a senior independent project, and that was only completed in your senior year. And that's where I got a jump start on so many things because my professor at the time was a gentleman named Dennis Ichiyama. I got an amazing guy. And he took me under his wing and he created the design publication department within the design department so that any of the other colleges within CMU who needed a brochure or a poster or a logo or an announcement card or an invitation would come to us and we would design it. And since I was the senior that had the most amount of time, I was given a lot of these projects right off the bat and because I needed to fill my requirements. So I probably worked as hard or if not harder as all of my other assistant colleagues at the time. The fact that drama was on the first floor, architecture was on the second floor and we were on the third floor. All those disciplines doing whatever they do all day long and all night long because literally it was all night long, but we all fed off of each other's energy. And their energy was mine and vice versa and you would see somebody dressed in costume and you would be inspired or you'd see one of the fine artists splattered in paint or working till three in the morning or falling asleep on the studio. The architects were great because they had their desks and on top of their desks they would cantilever another desk and put hammocks and stuff so they literally were sleeping above their desk. I took advantage of everything I could at CMU because it was just so cool. It was so neat and some of these professors, you would hear their name and you'd go, there was one professor, I'm sorry I'm going to forget his name but he stood in the park on Flagstaff Hill every day and would rotate every 15 minutes to get a full body tan. So he had a tan all year long. He had grayish, whitish hair. I will remember his name if it kills me. Very cool guy. Half of the freshman year we created a geodesic dome. So in 1971 we're making a geodesic dome. We cut out all the shapes, all the triangles and we ironed them and we sewed them and we inflated it a couple of different times and that was I think the whole university thought we were nuts. I mean because they would watch us doing this stuff and they thought we were crazy and you could fit at least 25 people in our dome. It was not small and it looked like a big igloo. CMU was where people went in the city to get art, to get a poster. I think I began with this senior project with Dennis Uchiyama at CMU and made inroads into the film department and the Carnegie Museum and did some freebies or did some things at prices that were just minimal because I needed the portfolio piece. I needed to say that Carnegie Museum was my client and I think just because we liked each other and the lady that was working the PR department then was Mary Kay Poppenberg and I think it was nice to have another female along. She was Italian, I'm Greek so I think that probably helped a little bit. We would create two of the posters at a time so that they would print two up so we would save on money and printing cost and get a better product because we could use two different inks as opposed to always using one ink. And I also wanted to create an image for the film department so that each poster there was a thread of something you would see in each of the posters that looked the same. We were taught to design things in a grid because everything could then fit into this grid and it gave an identity to that particular client. So I created this sort of grid format for the film department and Bill was on board with that. He was on board with so many things because I can't say the word progressive isn't cool. You have to say something like he trusted us. Milton Glazer was a huge influence on I don't know, on my work, but how I saw things. Once I started to see and understand how he would look at things and to slim things down, take away a lot of the frill, don't get bogged down in all the information but find the points of information that need to be expressed and get those out fast and quickly before you lose your audience because you have, what, 30 seconds or 10 seconds of someone's interest before they're going to turn away and look at something else. So you need to get their attention right away and I think that is... I don't know if he's the one that influenced me in that way or just my needing to get information out there quickly that sort of is the way I've... I create everything. Whether it's a plate of food or a poster or a piece of jewelry or what I'm wearing, I usually make sure that there's one piece that overrides everything else and then the rest is sort of background but I want them to see that one thing and make a decision whether they want to approach it or engage with it longer based on that one or that one and a half things that I find to be the essence of good design or a visual attraction.