 Mark Schlaufe, the host of think tech Hawaii's law across the sea program. Today we have a special program. My guest is Tenzin Kiyosaki. Tenzin Kiyosaki has had an interesting life. Tenzin was born and raised in Hawaii. In 1985, she was ordained by his holiness, the Dalai Lama, and practiced as a Buddhist nun for 27 years. From 1999 to 2005, Tenzin was the first Buddhist chaplain at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Tenzin is also an author. She's the co-author of the book, Rich Brother, Rich Sister, and she wrote with her brother, Robert Kiyosaki, which was published in 2009. In 2012, Tenzin returned her monastic vows and currently works as a hospice chaplain in Los Angeles, California. And she's written a second book titled The Three Regrets, which will be available in March 2021. Tenzin and I are also related through cousins. And it's just remarkable to see you. I'm so glad that you're my guest today. Aloha. Welcome, Tenzin. How are you? Thank you so much for inviting me. I was pleased to watch some of the shows that you have hosted and the wonderful opportunity to to share and also to be with you as well. Well, OK, so let's let's dive into this. I mean, you've had an interesting life, as I said. And but also you're you're dealing with very strong thoughts and ideas and folks that deal with life and maybe the end of life. What is a hospice chaplain? What are you doing in that? What does it entail? And, you know, why did you get into that? It's just been such a gift to be able to do this work. And I actually, even while I was living in Colorado, I volunteered at a hospice. And then when I came back to LA, I returned to LA to host one of the Dalai Lama's visits. And after that, my teacher said, stay in LA, but I needed work. So this job was open. A friend who worked there as a social worker kept asking me to apply. And I did. And I've been there now for 12 and a half years. The work is so inspiring because I get to be with people at a time in their life when all sense of pretence is really gone. And we're dealing with having to say goodbye to this life. It's an honor to be with them. Many of the people don't want many people in their homes. Sometimes they don't even want to see their best friends, perhaps because their speech or their memory is compromised. So I am honored that they will allow me in. Oftentimes people don't want me in there at all, either. And I respect their wishes. Now, the brainwari. What do you do? I mean, I mean, so it's folks dealing with end of life. And and, you know, when I when I first heard about you doing this, a couple of thoughts went through my mind. One was a Woody Guthrie song. You've got to walk through the valley. You've got to walk through that lonesome valley. You've got to walk it by yourself. And also the 23rd song, which was a favorite of my mother, you know, walking through the shadow, walking through the valley of the shadow of death. I mean, those thoughts, I don't know why they came into my head, but they did. I mean, is that I mean, is that what you're dealing with? Or can you can you kind of tell me how you're dealing with it or what you're dealing with? Yes. Well, generally, there are three of us on a team and the nurse is primary because it is hospice, medical focused. Then there's a social worker who handles a lot of the paperwork, the legality services that are available for them. And then my work is more of the heart, the spiritual heart. How are you coping with the reality that you've been given a terminal diagnosis or that your spouse or your parent or your loved one is no longer able to recognize you anymore because of dementia, because of Alzheimer's. And so how do you cope with these issues? So it's much more on the level of the emotions and also on spirituality. For a lot of the patients, they will have a church or a temple or a priest that they're connected with. But, you know, in these generations and times today, a lot of people will say they're spiritual but not religious. They will not be churchgoers or templegoers, but they have an affinity towards interest and love of life in nature, perhaps in creativity in the arts. So my work is not so much to go in and say this is how it is. But much more on meeting the patient and the families where they are and to see what is on their mind at this time of life. What are they coping with? How are they dealing with the news that they are terminal? And how can I help and assist in that way? So you're not really coming from necessarily a Buddhist background. You're there to help them. And what are what are they dealing with? And do I mean, how do they tell you? And what have you learned about life and death from these folks? A lot. Generally, we are trained and interfaith as chaplains so that we can work with them regardless if they're Catholic or Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist or no faith at all. And so we are there to really pay attention. And I think the biggest tool that we go with is called active listening, where we listen to what's going on. So they may say everything's all right or I have no problems. But yet at the same time, their actions, their face, their the people around them may be expressing a whole different energy or concern. And so it's to be able to listen with all of our senses in a way to, you know, and most of the times I'm in people's homes. So you get a lot of information by stepping into someone's home. No, sometimes it's very cluttered. Sometimes it's pristine. There may be a lot of loved ones present. They may be totally alone. Some just are are being very stoic and don't want anyone in their house. And yet they are slowly declining. So as as part of the team, I go in to really provide some. I guess a grounding for them to be able to say what's on their mind, to say what their concerns are, their aspirations, their joys, how they'd like to live their remaining months, weeks or days and to be able to see what I can do to assist that happening. Sometimes it's hard for them to even voice what's going on. Many people will say, I want to live longer. I want my health back. I want to regain the use of my hands if I'm arthritic. I can't even ride on my electrical chair anymore because my hands are too crippled to adjust that I'm bent bound. What can I do? And so, no, it's how do you, as you are saying, you know, how to find joy, how to find hope, even in a situation of being terminally diagnosed with an illness that there's nothing that the doctors can do for you anymore. So it's it's quite an impactful diagnosis and to cope with that and the grieving that one feels. Are they are they I mean, are they afraid of death or have they come to terms with it? And then what do you what I mean? What do you tell them? What what what is your what are what are words? Do you tell them when they talk to you and express their feelings about the end of life? Sometimes they won't tell you that they're afraid, but you can see that they are. Let's not talk about it. Don't mention the H word hospice or the C word cancer. And it makes it a lot harder because everyone has to tiptoe around that. Don't tell mom, she's got this. Don't tell my husband, he's got this. And so to me, that's very sad and unfortunate because it cuts the openness and the conversation to a very limited scope. So I see what I can do to try to slowly touch upon things, but if they clearly do not wanna talk about it, then that's not for me to change. So I go in there to work on some other things to see if they would just like to talk about how they like to golf or how they enjoyed gardening or how the spouse now to take a break from the incessant and increasing needs for caregiving of a spouse that their only break is to go out in the garden and tend to the flowers or something like that. And so I just work at where they are. And yeah, I'm cultivating the art mark. And it sounds like you're trying to be there for someone that they can talk to. And you're also respecting their wishes. You're also dealing with other people, their family members, I guess, and friends too. And there might be different viewpoints. And so you're kind of like a, well, in a way like a third party that comes in and can be there to talk to different people so that you can take it in. And I guess you're taking this in and holding it there or are you letting it go? But I mean, you're taking in the words from all the different sources and allowing them to express themselves. Maybe that's, is that right? Yes, I wouldn't hold it in here. Fortunately, what's beautiful is I have the team and every week we get together now by phone with the entire team. We have a medical director and a supervisor and then all the nurses, social workers and chaplains get together. We used to meet weekly in person, but now we don't do that. But so we have an opportunity to share. And we also use email. We have everything kind of in code because of highly protected information for the patients and their families. So I'm able to discuss and share my concerns and even before our meeting, I will send an email or I'll call the team if there are some big concerns. Yeah. Is there any, you know, without discussing anything private, is there any particular hospice experience that has affected you greatly? Oh gosh, I, many of them have. And you know, there are some people that your heart just goes out to you, just love them instantly by their character, their personality, their joy. And you just love them. And you know, it seems like they're on for a while. And generally someone who is assigned to hospice, they have to agree to it as well. They have a terminal diagnosis of six months or less. However, we currently have patients on that have been with us for over four years because they keep qualifying. And generally these are the patients with dementia or Parkinson's or some Alzheimer's condition where it's hard to determine how long it's going to be. And it's just a slow demise. So there are many that have been very curious. You know, how have you studied this? How do you work with this? How have others faced end of life because it's something that no one is exempt from. Every single one of us is going to face this. And so the patients that have really inspired me are the ones that are very candid about what's going on and yet just share a very curious or a curiosity about what's coming up for them, how they can cope with it. In my new book, Coming Up, The Three Regrets, you know, I contrast regrets with those that have overcome the regrets and were able to really share or to turn things around to work with resolving regrets even at a time of end of life. So, yeah, I named some of the patients but everything is couched in different name, different culture, different diagnosis, different place, you know, so that I can respect their privacy as well. But yeah, so we had one patient that was on for a while. He was with us. He was very ill. And yet within the time he was with us, his wife came on service with us and passed away before him. And yet before he passed away, you know, he was a professional person and he was in his 90s. So he kept his other life of being a surfer, private to his professional team and he'd go surfing a lot. So one of the social workers was able to arrange for he and his wife to go by van, even in his wheelchair with fat tires, to wheel him across the sand and put him in the water. And even though the water is so cold here, he just was mesmerized by his feet in the water and looking at the sky and just being out of his bed, out of the four walls and just taking in this vast world of sea and sky that he lived in, you know, outside of his work. So there's some people that are willing to try it out, even when they've got the challenge of being not really a bed bound. Well, you know, and what I hear also is kind of, it kind of is really nice. I mean, you're not alone. There is somebody there that cares for you or and will be there. Really, I guess it's your choice too. But there are people available. And is that, I mean, how does that go with your philosophy about life and, you know, your background in Buddhism and just looking toward the end of life? How does that all come together? I mean, I guess it sounds like people are helping each other. That's really a strength. I mean, am I seeing this right? I agree with you completely. And I think that this is where it's important, which is why I wrote the book too, because we want to prepare while we're well, while we have good health and while we're living and relating to others, that we cultivate good relationships, that we cultivate opportunities so that we're not filled with regrets at life end. And that you have this kind of receptivity and openness to build this strength to work with others. And my Buddhist practice too, the first teaching that the Buddha shared was everything is impermanent. Death is inevitable. The time of our death is uncertain. And the only thing that can really help us at end of life is our good heart, our mind, our, you know, he would say the Dharma and Buddhism, but regardless for me, when I'm most of my patients are Christian or Jewish or no faith, it's like to have a good heart, to have this kind of what has been buoyant for you in your life and to work with it. And for me, it's like using your time now that you have realizing that it is going to end one day. And it's a very sobering thought, but it can also be an impetus for us to really use our lives well and not be procrastinating, which I'm also guilty of, but I don't know much. You know, we can really make good use and I was just reading something by the Dalai Lama and he was saying, you know, it's like the best way to face end of life or best way to face death is with joy. How can you face it with joy? No, it's something that's going to happen, but, you know, can you turn around and look back at your life and say, oh my gosh, you know, I did want it, I wanted to do, the family loves me, I enjoyed my career, I was able to travel some and to really see that, you know, we completed a lot of things rather than being stuck in bed saying, I want to live longer when we don't know how much time we have left. So the Dalai Lama was saying, first is, you know, can we pass away with a sense of joy in our life? The second level would be that we would not be afraid of that and leaving this life and saying goodbye to everyone. And then the third one would be to be able to die without regrets. You know, I hear you talking about several things that cross all religions, you know, have a good heart, have friends, have joy in what you experience in life. Now, we have a question from a viewer who asks, you know, you deal with all sorts of people as a hospice chaplain, how about atheists? Is it harder for them to see these things? How do you deal with an atheist as compared to somebody who has maybe beliefs and Christian beliefs or some other religion, Jewish? Is it harder to deal with those folks? Well, you could also say that Buddhists are atheists because the Buddha said, I'm a teacher, I'm not a God, you know, so it's, so I feel the people who are more difficult to work with are the ones that are really closed in who maybe have a lot of anger or just don't want to talk. And to me, my heart goes out to them, but I, again, I must respect where they are. I did, when I first started, I worked with a woman who wanted to see me, but she believed that there is nothing after this life and that you just become dirt, that's all. And her son was a physician and she was an international woman who traveled and skied the world over. And so, you know, I would go to visit her and the first she wanted to see me. And when I would start talking to her just to introduce myself to assess her, she would start screaming. And so I would just stop and sit with her and we ended up having a few months of chats, no, to just kind of talk about her philosophy because we all have a view about end of life and a view of if there's a spirit that goes on or not. And, or like she said, you know, we just become dirt, there's nothing. So as a chaplain, I don't know how people are going to be that in their medical record I might say they're Christian, but when I go to see them, the patient, that had one patient who told me, I haven't been to church since I was 10 years old and my parents would give me a dime to put in the offering box but I'd go buy a candy bar instead. So, you know, so their level of involvement is varied. And, you know, I think what you've said though is that you're kind of there as the friend and you are the one that is talking with them about things that they can find joy in life about and you're trying to bring them closer to that. It sounds like, I mean, that's what I'm hearing. And also that you're expressing to them with your own heart that it's good to have a good heart. And acceptance, you know, acceptance. Okay, now we only have a couple of minutes left. What, you know, do you have any regrets and how do you deal with the stress of life and the inability of death yourself? I mean, what is your personal feelings about these things? I realize it's giving me the opportunity to put my things in order as well. And I do have regrets. I think it's normal to have regrets and that to have no regrets at life is wonderful. However, the regrets are telling you it's like a tap on the shoulder. Like there's something to be resolved. Something to, maybe you need to apologize to someone or have a conversation with others. So, you know, we can see regrets as a good thing to. I like that. Regrets are a good thing that makes you think about it and gives you an opportunity to do something with a good heart that'll bring joy and that maybe create a friendship. And all of those are the things that you've been talking about and they transpire and they go across all religions and non-religions. Doesn't matter. And to bring a nice, well nice, a bring a good completion at end of life as well. Yeah, I like those thoughts and it's difficult. I mean, you've had an interesting life and now you're dealing with the end of life of other folks. And it's at this time in our society when we're dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, we have to think about these things. And that's why I wanted to invite you to be our guest today. And thank you Tenzin Kiyosaki for being here today with me. I look forward to your new book and it sounds like it'll be interesting and something that will help us all enjoy life actually and think better about where we're going. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. Please give my best to Cheryl and I'll send you both a book. All right, oh, thank you so much. Aloha. Aloha.