 Go ahead, Randy. Do you okay? Okay. Welcome to the Meek SIG monthly meeting and we are here with Brett and our guest speaker who Brett will introduce in just a moment. And in the meantime, I am posting the code of conduct for our meetings, as well as the antitrust statement. And I will also be posting our link for LinkedIn and our Discord. So anyone interested in those joining us, we would encourage that you encourage you to join us on LinkedIn, as well as on Discord and on YouTube, on the YouTube channel. Thank you, Brett. Thank you, Randy. Welcome all. I am Brett Russell, co-chair of the Hyperledger Media and Entertainment Special Interest Group. Today, we're going to mash it up with Todd Holmes, associate professor of entertainment media management at California State University Northridge. We have a lot to chat about, so let's get to it. We will delve into the many issues the entertainment industry faces, including the music industry. We would like to take the discussion to where the potential for addressing some of these industry challenges can be had with me technologies, specifically blockchain technology, and ultimately drill down to the chain of custody and generative AI. Good morning, Todd. Welcome to the Hyperledger Media and Entertainment SIG. We are happy to have you here. Thank you, Brett. It's wonderful to be here. I appreciate the opportunity a lot. Thank you, Randy. Thank you, Todd. Todd, we'll start with the big news worthy, and that's the Hollywood Stripes. Can you start us off with your perspective on the writer's guild struggles and the eventual settlement, and then your thoughts on the current SAG in the studio dilemma? And then maybe we can roll this discussion into some ways we could possibly use technology to help them solve some of the challenges that they face. You have the floor, Todd. Thank you. OK, thank you, Brett. So, yes, the negotiations are still taking place in terms of the actors. So we'll touch on that in just a minute. But first, the WGA, the writer's guild of America, was able to work out a deal at the end of September. Fortunately, that ended that strike that went on for, I believe, 148 days. So a very, very lengthy strike, very close to being the longest strike, writer strike in history, only off by a few days. It was highly anticipated leading up to this. Industry insiders felt that this was going to happen this year, and a lot of it. There were several key concerns, and a lot of these are similar in terms of the actors with SAG. So one of them was the residuals question, which we'll touch on some today, and trying to come up with some sort of bonus for streaming content. And that's, in a lot of ways, people looked at these strikes as sort of almost being streaming strikes because it's due to the kind of the new technology has kind of changed the financial structure a little bit of the industry. And that is something that needs to be explored, certainly looking at the business model there. But there were a couple of key things. So, as it came down to it, the final resolution was in terms of the bonuses on residuals was essentially that shows that would bring in at least 20% of the people that are subscribed to a certain streaming platform. If you're bought in at least that 20%, then within 90 days, that means that basically there would be a 50% bump in the residuals or a residual bonus on top of the flat rate. So that was important. There were some discussions about the writer's rooms concerned there and making sure that people were going to be compensated fairly. And because one of the fundamental issues is that streaming shows typically are shorter, a shorter number of episodes. So that means, obviously, then less time for writers and actors to be tied to that show and then compensated. And then also that can mean, of course, more time in between, you know, the production of different shows that you're involved in. So looking at that, that was, it was determined that basically, yeah, there would be within these writer's rooms, you'd have three of your full-time writers and you'd have three additional writers and producers and their pre-protections that at least people would be compensated for at least 10 weeks worth of work, 20 weeks worth of work for episodes that were going to be, you know, longer in length. AI was a big issue and is certainly a sag after, as I'll talk about in a minute, but with the WGA, one of the biggest concerns was would AI be used as source material? And essentially, the agreement was that if AI, if you have bring-on writers and you send them some content, some ideas, they're AI generated, that the people, the writers need to know that they're AI generated. They also have protections the writers do in making sure that their intellectual property, the scripts that they've written, are not going to be used then for without their consent or without being compensated if this were the case for this material to then be used to train AI. Now, in terms of sag after, that strike is still ongoing. I, you know, from everything I've seen, the resolution is imminent. I think it's going to happen within the next day or two. Basically, they've been meeting continuously over about the last 10 days. They had some talks through the weekend. So I think some things are going to happen there. Some of the key things there would be pay increases for one on what they call the minimum basic agreement. And essentially in year one, initially, SAG was asking for 11% the amp T. P. The, which is the union for the studio. So no, we can't do 11%. But we would do a 5%. Well, in the, in the recent weeks, though, the amp T. P. has decided to raise to up to 7% for that first year of the new contract. Where it's sag after has been willing then to drop from 11% to 9%. So there's sort of they're getting closer in that negotiation in terms of the residuals, the same kind of situation that amp T. P. is proposed the same deal that they worked out with the WGA. And that's one thing that they did one. Final, as they said the other day on Saturday, this is their best, the last best and final offer they are offering now very similar to what with the case with WGA, that if a show brings in at least 20% of the subscribers of a streaming platform that basically actors will be, their residuals will be doubled if this happens again within the first 90 days of release. So, so that was a key development will be interesting to see how the actors respond. And that's where things stand right now. We're waiting to hear from the actors. The actors have wanted. First, they wanted a 2% residual increase. Then they dropped it to 1%. Then they went to a 57 cents per subscriber. And like I said, the MPTP has put that offer out there. So we'll, we'll certainly wait on that. And of course, with AI to concerns there about potentially. People, you know, having their likeness be used and the idea is that people want to make sure they're fairly compensated for their likeness being used and making sure that if, if an actor is sort of digitally scan that it that it would be approved for only 1 project. And whereas the studios want to say, okay, we can, we can scan an actor's likeness and use their likeness throughout an entire franchise. Well, that's one place where the actors are kind of pushing back. So those are, those are kind of the key issues and where, where things stand, but hopefully the sag after a strike will end in the next couple of days. Next couple of days. That's what I'm hoping. I don't know. At least all indications are saying that, but, you know, I might have might have pie on my face here in a couple of days, but hopefully, hopefully that that will be the case. And like I said, right now sag after is just reviewing that as the MPTP AP MPP T said, this is our final final offer final best and last offer. That's interesting. Tell me what is the, with respect to the writers. I guess the first question I have is, why didn't the sag, the writers stay on strike to support the sag actors. I mean, it just seemed the sag, the actors went to town and, and were supportive of the writer's guild and they, they put a lot of pressure on the studios. I guess maybe they knew the, that their time was coming up as well, but I just found it interesting that the, that as soon as the writer's strike was over they guys, Jesus, they just left the picket line drop their, their placards and and beat the feet. Did you find that interesting or what, what do you think. No, no, I did, I did a little bit right I certainly noticed that I mean I will say there are certainly some exceptions the rule there are some, some WG members that were still picking with the actors but, but you're right I think a lot less so than the support that the writers provided the writers. I think a lot of it is just the fact that the writers had gone on for so long from early May until the end of last month, without being on a right without being able to work on projects I think that they were just desperate to get started and and and start creating content. Honestly, as I think that the main thing but you would hope that maybe there'd be a little bit more, a little bit more support from coming from the other side. Yeah, yeah. What is the, in your, in your opinion, or from the best of your knowledge, what is, what methods are actors and agents. What measures are they taking to ensure that they know that their likenesses and that scripts and content isn't being either replicated or manipulated or used, whether BAI or any other way that it was generated. Is there something in the contract, is there some tool that they've talked about, and how do they know they can say don't do it but there also has to be some measure of the ability to detect and then the enforcement is another issue altogether because that's just lawyers but the detection I think is a pretty important component to that agreement was there any discussion about that that you're aware of. Nothing I'm aware of a specific tools but certainly I do wonder about that is, I mean, the, certainly the actors and their attorneys certainly are saying okay yeah this is a, this is a contractual thing we'll make sure that all the legal verbiage is in there. The contract certainly but you're right in terms of how do they enforce it how do they really know. As far as I know that there's no way for them to really to really know what the studios are playing on doing or what they're doing until content is released and then, but even then it may be that the actor is not even realize that their likeness was used maybe in a, in a, in a franchise and they said okay well yeah you can digitally scan me one time and use it for that but then they use it for the for a sequel or something. You know I guess if they see that but a lot of cases your actors are not always going to see that so. That's a great question certainly that's somewhere where technology would be of use, certainly to be able to catch that and maybe come up with an automated way of flagging that watermarking that, however you want to describe that but. Yeah, yeah there's a number there's a number of tools I mean in generative AI and in many cases is just inputs and outputs are just different medium and that's really what blockchain I mean the Bitcoin is inputs and outputs and that's really what it comes down to. And the proof that an input and an output happened and and the history of that being documented so the same thing has to apply in in any industry that is going to want to be protected against that sort of a replication and digital money was never successful over the years until Bitcoin was created in 2009. It was tried, but the mere fact that you can replicate a picture of gold a billion times and they all look the same. You know suggests that there are certain other components needed in order to take something from a from a real life format into a digital format and and and improve its authenticity. So that's a very interesting thing and it's and it does surprise me that that detection that some kind of detection model wasn't elaborated on during these contractual agreements and then and then we're faced with the same thing with the current sector that that go ahead. Yeah. No, that's going to say and maybe some of these conversations are taking place perhaps people discussing the potential of using you know generative AI to be able to to work around some of this, but at least in terms of everything that I've read or from my understanding none of this has been publicly disclosed in these conversations. So the, the challenge is going to be not only enforcing the the challenge is going to be for the people that are looking for the protection, knowing where they need that protection. Would you like, is it going to be always after the fact I mean after movies released now an actor can use a detection tool to find out if a likeness has been has been used in a film and and then go after the studios what's the likelihood that an actor or an actor's agent or someone has the resources to go after the studio after a film is released is this something that is would be an impossible task or is it something that should be created or stopped before it can happen or what's your opinion on that. The best way to the best way to manage a a an infraction let's call it an infraction to the any of those agreements. Sure, I mean I think the best way to do it is if you can if you can stop it before things were actually distributed if if there's a way to use AI technology to be able to to pick this up in some way that it can be flag so that then an attorney and the actor themselves or or writer in certain cases would be aware of these things before the actual distribution takes place because it seems like to me the most anything you know try to nip it in a bud try to take care of it before it. But it's only going to escalate further once the content gets out there. It's going to be from a legal standpoint more complex and probably more costly for the studio. I would imagine trying to do that then and then if it then if it extends out so I think that would be the place where you try to pick that up. Yeah, yeah. Are we slowly moving away from the the the the theater model I mean is it is it when a when a film is produced or when there are productions in in the in the entertainment industry specific to film and television or specific to film. Are we moving away from the model of opens in the theaters and is there and then it goes into secondary which is the which is streaming and things like that or is everybody looking at streaming because that's where the volume of viewership is what what are your thoughts on that. Sure. Well, I think the traditional windowing model I think still still stands as the dominant way that yes that you have these these exclusive windows where again the theatrical run and then later it goes to to pay TV or or something like that. A premium channel on cable and then it goes to more general cable than to broadcast that model has been a place for a long time I think still dominates but you are seeing some. You know, examples of cases where certain films they're trying different things to distribution of course we saw during the pandemic for instance HBO Max was releasing films at simultaneously what was going on in the theater. Of course that was in the midst of the COVID-19 lockdowns. So that was a kind of special case scenario but we still see it. We're still seeing it some some recently with a few film friend or a few films that are being a whether toy with that idea. Okay, let's do a simultaneous release on streaming versus the theater and I think it depends on the type of IP the type of content you're looking at as to when you can most effectively do that. But I still think yeah I still think at least for the time being the kind of the traditional window model, you know stands firm. So in the, in the grand scheme of film production. Who is that who is the dominant force, in your opinion, in terms of. I guess volume is it the net flexes of the world is it Amazon is it is the big studios like who is going to win this war of coming you know subscribe to us and, and that's all you need. Or will it will that ever be the case go ahead. Sure. You know so are you are you saying volume in terms of sales revenue or volume in terms of production. Yeah, content content like every day. Yeah. Sure. Well, that's that's interesting question I do think that if you look at at least for right now, perhaps the streamers such as Netflix have an upper hand or at least Netflix specifically does other streamers because they have a capability and they pride themselves on producing a ton of content. And a lot of their original content and some of their original content is done quite well critically as well as in terms of revenues. And but they, they themselves have a big advantage of the other streamers, based on just the sheer fact that they're actually the only streaming platform and so far being able to turn profit. The streaming platforms are not able to turn a profit and they're actually kind of cutting back some of them on the amount of productions that they're doing in an effort to focus on specific productions and making those particularly, particularly profitable. Now, you know, I know that Disney Francis is hoping to turn the corner another year. I know some of the other streamers are also hoping that they'll turn the corner but start becoming profitable and Netflix. And so far and a lot of that comes down of course, being the first mover managed being the ones that were the first to the table and the ones are really up into the whole industry to begin with. You know, I think certainly your, your, your, your major studios and looking outside of streaming certainly they, they still have a lot of, you know, influence obviously and of course they're tied into to overarching media conglomerates that also where they're streaming platforms, you know, and things like that, such as the case with Hulu right and Hulu being being mostly run now by Disney. So there are some of those relationships so I think at the high level. I think there's still those major companies still have a great deal of great deal of power because they've got different ways of releasing content but if you break it down more specifically and come into a few notches off of those corporate ladders and you get into those two divisions of companies I think yeah I think streamers in terms of the amount of content will have some of those advantages because if they can just some efficiencies that they have built in in terms of production. But like I said, other than Netflix though these other streaming platforms are not able to come profitable right now. With SAG and with the efforts to bring more equality to the industry is there going to be fewer big stars and more little stars and I mean I can't help to bring up the residuals that in the news that the cast of friends were getting $20 million a year just in residuals and so it just it shocked me to see that those numbers and some of the numbers with Seinfeld and things of that nature. What are your thoughts on on how this this recent revolt of the of the little guy is going to shake up the bigger part of the industry. Yeah, I know I think it's a great question and I think you're going to you're going to see different different philosophies put forth in terms of production I think you're going to see in a cost cutting measure yeah some of these. Some of these production companies trying to work with, you know, lesser known actors, things like that where they and of course, the nice thing with the potential tools of AI and for predictive analytics and things is that we can have a better sense, specifically the types of content or the types of of stars that are really going to resonate well with potential audiences so I think when you have more audience data like that you will make it easier than maybe identify some of these up and coming performers or lesser known people that can certainly save you a lot of money because you're right. Certainly looking back at some of those shows, just a tremendous amount of money being being spent going out there for residuals because there's such an incredible syndication market for show like friends or Seinfeld aftermarket, and everything is something massive so but I still think yes you're going to have some producers though certainly the larger companies, those that have a little deeper pockets that are still going to a lot center their content around certain audiences realize and hey that a certain performer is going to bring in a particular audience and that's an audience that they really desire. Again, based on their analytics and their analytics is showing that yeah you cast this, this certain group of actors in a film that they're going to bring in this audience, and they're going to bring in, you know, certain amounts of revenue so I think you're going to see different philosophies but like I said I think that the capabilities of a generative AI in terms of being able to do audience casting and understanding audiences better and how to market to them better. I think those are only going to improve so I think that will, that will be something that again will lead to a lot of cases. Yeah smaller smaller stars being identified though but those that would resonate as well with potential audiences. We're talking about big money we're talking about equality in in technology right now we have the ability to. The ability to create a smart contract that can automatically make a payment to somebody, based on certain criteria based on certain elements of a program. What are your thoughts on on the crypto industry. And within the entertainment industry, including the music industry and automatically making payments to people that that are involved in a production so for example the if a song is played on the radio it can easily be picked up and monitored. And if a person was supposed to be paid or the creator or a co creator or someone involved in that production is contractually going to receive a percentage based on our dollar. Get paid that automatically using crypto in real time over the internet. What are your thoughts on something as efficient as as that. Great question Brett, you know that is a game changer that would be I think that would be tremendously helpful. It would certainly make things a lot more efficient. I was reading recently that there are is estimated about $2.1 billion every year are being paid out in residuals and about 15% of that though is unclaimed or does not get to the appropriate to the actors to the writers. And so that equates to 300 million dollars that just ends up kind of landing or staying in the the coffers of the of the studios and not being distributed to the talent behind it so I think that that yeah I think that's a real game changer is very much needed so that we don't have things like that we don't have some 15% of this slipping through the cracks and there's a way that you can you can deal with this because I was also reading the yeah it's a real hassle for some of these people whether they're either trying to collect residuals from a past show or maybe even from maybe their their late father or whoever else you know someone may have passed away their errors or trying to collect that if it's an older show particularly it can be problematic and can take a long time for that to be worked out so I think yeah the capabilities of blockchain technology the capabilities to have these smart contracts would be tremendous and I think there's a to me I feel like there's a real opportunity there to be able to automate that system and make sure that this happens in real time people are getting paid more quickly it's a much more efficient system than the way it is right now right now it's very messy. There is, you know, different Excel spreadsheets that are used and things get held up when they go back to the unions, when that when the payments go to the unions and then goes to the, again to the performers or the talent or their errors. I think there's a lot of a lot of problems there. Do you think that those problems are sufficient that would keep people from entering the industry, you know, you're very close to that, you're at a level where you're teaching about it, you're constantly looking out for the latest trends and things of that nature is it because of these challenges and even what did I see yesterday with Spotify changing their payment model and extending the period or increasing the number of songs before somebody gets. I mean it's really crazy how when it's so centralized like that as you can see that it's just a one sided deal for the big guy all the time. So are there people that are just aren't interested in entering the industry because of that challenge and that they're going to swing in coffee and hot dogs until they get that big call for a movie part with, you know, Robert De Niro like tell me give me your thoughts on that. Well, I think it certainly can be a detractor. Yes, I do, particularly when you consider just residuals alone that, you know, for a lot of actors I think I read it's around about 40% I believe of the way that they are compensated. They come through come from residuals and maybe 30% for writers so I think it's a substantial amount. And I do think that the yeah that that could hold some people back from entering the industry, realizing that hey look am I going to be appropriately compensated for my work is my work just going to be out there for videos to make money on but then I'm not going to be receive benefits, the appropriate benefits I'm supposed to, I'm supposed to receive now of course. You know for a lot of people though it's it's enough of a, you know it's their dream is their passion and they're going to to enter the industry regardless of the risks or regardless of the issues with residuals and other other types of related things. And I do think yeah I do think that it certainly did will keep some people away from the industry and certainly be a detractor for those that are deciding okay I this is definitely what the industry I want to enter. I want to be a writer I want to be an actor. I want to be a director, but just these things certainly hold them back in terms of their, their level satisfaction that they feel toward their work and potentially could lead to some of them saying I'm going to go and do something else or, or getting involved in. Yeah, you know another industry related or not. Yeah. We're talking about money here income. Tell me what. Let's go back to funding. Let's look at funding. Let's look at the, the, what drives funding in United States as you know I'm in Canada and investment tax credits up here without the tax credits that are afforded investors in film and television, and the very strict rules that they have. There is no, there is no film industry. And that's the way I see it in Canada. Any thoughts on that. And how important is it that the accounting side of the film production music production whatever is as important as the quality of the content. Let's talk a little bit about that. You're saying accounting in terms of Sorry, but to invest, you know, to raise funds to put together a production. Aside from a studio having the ability to open up their bank account their own wallet and fund these things for several hundreds of millions of dollars. But for a, for an indie producer to go out there into the public market and find funding. The necessity to have accurate banking or accurate transaction records to the necessity to be able to properly account for every dollar that's put in there. So that an investor has the ability to use that as a as a tax advantage to him. This is these are the sorts of things I'm talking about. So the work that's involved in accounting for investments is is as important as the content of that film or production itself is without that money you're not going to build the production. Your thoughts on that. Right. No, absolutely. I mean, yeah, for their independent producers, it can be, you know, it can be a real real challenge, right? Because you're trying to, you know, put the money behind everything for, you know, from producing the content to be able to market it to be able to work at distribution deals. And yeah, and it's very important to be able to to have tools in place that'll that'll keep track of your transactions with with different parties and making sure that you're all that is in line. And obviously, yeah, in terms of investors, investors are are going to want to look at that. And of course, that's a that's a very important part for an independent producer to be able to find these individuals and to be able to find these sources that are going to help invest in in their content invest in what they're doing. Yeah, so I think it's a real challenge. Now, certainly, yes, you, you kind of alluded to before, things like tax credits and things. And of course, that's, that's a key benefit, certainly for producing in certain areas. Right. I mean, we know that there's a lot of production, for instance, taking place in the state of Georgia right now, because it's less expensive than a lot of places. There's nice tax credits there. There's nice tax credits and at least in Vancouver, Canada, I know there's there's a fair amount going on up there. I'm not sure about yeah the rest of Canada, if there's if there's really places like that but certainly, yeah that that bodes well for the, you know, the independent producer certainly has to strongly consider any type of discounts or any type of financial that they can in terms of production or or efficiencies. And yeah, this comes down to looking at the tax credits to be able to have the appropriate people that and the appropriate technology they're using to be able to keep up with, again, all of your expenses and trying to do things efficiently as you can. Because you're right if you're trying to find investors, they want to know very, very much about where you stand financially, and they want to be able to truly see, you know, what your business model is and they want to understand what the what the revenue shares are going to be percent revenue shares will be with distributors for instance, things like that they want to definitely see that. Yeah, the, the foundation for that question really was was the fact that crypto allows the the immutable recording of all of these transactions on the on the blockchain. And this is where we're going to end up. This is where we're trying to end up today. That's AI blockchain. So if you were to build a complete production on the blockchain, everything can change a title to all your contracts and things of that nature, which are really crucial to the success of a, of a distribution deal. If you don't have all your change, you don't have your chain of title in place with all of your, your IP and everything like that, and then something happens after distribution you're, because you didn't get a, you know, a write off on something or you didn't get someone approval on using something for a film you're in big trouble. So the blockchain allows a lot of it brings a lot of efficiencies and it brings them automatically. So that's where I was going with that. And then of course the, you know, the crypto being paid in crypto is a and I hate even to use that word because it's not a nice word. I don't like it, especially in light of the, the recent FTX scandal that is all over the news every day front and center. But the reality is that we have the ability in, in this technology that we are in love with and that we are trying to build for the media and entertainment industry we have the ability to improve a lot and that's improve a lot from payments, improve a lot from contracts, improve a lot from agreements, improve a lot from the AI side of things. Again, we're, we're, we are going to be putting together a round table on blockchain and AI and I want to take this opportunity to, to invite you to join this round table and that's with some people in the U.S. That are, are, are passionate about AI and experienced in AI and I think it's going to be something that, that I know you will, you will be interested in, but we do feel very strongly and very passionately about the fact that the technology can solve a lot of the problems, some of the problems that I don't think the industry even knows it has yet because clearly if there's the detection tools aren't part of the agreement with the writer's guild and if the detection tools aren't part of the agreement with SAG and AM and the, in the studios, then it's all for naught it's like okay well we're protected but you know how do you know if there's a violation. Right, if you don't know and this is probably something that the studios are counting on. They didn't ask about how they're going to figure it out you know like. Right. Yeah so so so that's I mean that's that's my perspective and I, and I in your, in your travels in your, in the, in the education system and through the, the last few years. I've gotten some feedback from students and other faculty and things like that on this whole crypto blockchain. And if any of it is bleeding into the film or into your media and entertainment side of things if you are you getting any feedback or there's some uninformed and ill informed people that are that are within the within the educational system that the needs to be that need to be informed better what are your thoughts on. Yes, Brett, absolutely. I think I think one of the problems is yeah I think a lot of people are, they don't really understand it or they haven't really taken the time to really kind of research it understand what it's all about. I think sometimes there are some people have a negative connotation or they're, you know, crypto currency and things like that has a negative connotation for some people. I think largely that the capabilities here and all the positives here. So far not really being discussed I go to these academic and some industry conferences and I and I've seen very little right now about the capabilities of the blockchain and some of the things you talked about and being the fact that it's that you know it will contain all this information and that it's secure and that you can't change what's in the blockchain so it really hasn't been discussed a lot I will say that in several of my classes I have students do news reports where they talk about a current news, news development and we talk about as a class. I had a few students that did choose to talk about blockchain and AI, but still as a percentage of of all the presentations I've had it's still been a is still been a very small, small percent but some have chosen that have done a nice job but I think that in terms of my school in terms of other schools that teach film and entertainment television. They're not doing a very good job of really exploring blockchain and really exploring the advantages that can bring to the table. Well I'm, I won't say that I'm, I'm disappointed to hear that because I, I now am a fairly well connected to somebody that can maybe start fixing that. And, and that's maybe something we should talk about next time and or you know in an ongoing way and part maybe part of our roundtable on the blockchain and AI, that we could, we could include maybe your class or something like that in our efforts to. To bring awareness, where our goal is to build some tools and our goal is to build some detection tools that the industry can use on both sides and use those in a using a permissioned blockchain like. Like hyperledger fabric, as opposed to some of the a lot of people think blockchains are all public the Bitcoin blockchain is public anybody can go on there you don't know who's there. The Ethereum blockchain is also a public blockchain but there are some permissioned components to it so I think I'd like to leave the door open if you would agree to that and and and let's talk down the road about. About introducing some of this to your, your student body and your faculty and keep you in the loop and have you a part of our growing development of products that are going to only enhance the industry what are your thoughts on that. Sure, no breath that sounds great I certainly welcome the opportunity at looking forward to being part of the roundtable discussion you mentioned and certainly whatever I can do on my end to to help and certainly I'd be happy to do that and be happy to. To work with you to make inroads through not only educate higher education but also the industry, in terms of making some of these, you know, getting these companies and and the educational system to understand these capabilities and how helpful it can be to the industry. That's that's that's pretty awesome to hear. I have one one last question for you, and we don't have a lot of participants here and we'll see what Randy has any questions in a minute but one of the things I want to ask you personally is how did you get into the industry. What was your, what was the spark that got you going in the direction you're going to become an associate professor at a, at a California University, would you mind answering that question. Sure, sure. Are you saying more for higher education or more the entertainment industry. Well just yeah the entertainment side of and the and the education the blend of those two things that I think are pretty awesome. Thanks, thanks. Yeah, it's been kind of a unique journey. You know I graduated with an undergraduate degree in marketing and but at the time when I got into marketing I, I felt like I would enjoy a sales career but I didn't know what industry and and and I began to, I worked in a couple of different telecommunications did some other things but I guess I was about 25 and I came across actually friends of my mom and stepdad this this guy that was, was a vice president of this broadcast company Pegasus broadcasting and anyway, we met one time for for drinking just talked about and I had a sales background and he talked to me about the business industry and then later I met with his wife who, who ran an ad agency and I just, and we talked about Nielsen about numbers and all that I just realized that there was something I was really passionate about excited about. So then I went into that and then and then went into working in broadcast television first for Warner Brothers and up and networks before they merged become CW and I worked for for CBS as well I did some radio sales but during the time that I was working in network and working in broadcast TV, I started working on a graduate degree and at the thought was at the time either in 10 years I want to either be a professor or I wanted to be a general TV station general manager and anyway, during the time as a graduate student I had a chance to get a lecture for one of my, my business or media law professors and really love the experience and after doing it about the second or third time I said you know what I think, I think this is what I want to do moving forward and then then I started preparing myself to potentially enter a Ph.D. And I did that I was, did my graduate work at my master's at University of Florida and decided to stay there for my Ph.D. there University of Florida and I got into higher education I will say sort of the back of my mind. My, my parents are in higher education so I kind of had that a little bit in the back of my mind even from growing up but it was, but it wasn't something I was ready to jump into right away. I really was wanted to make sure I found the right industry for me and, and yeah so then I then I got into higher ed, full time in 2014 and, and took a job in New York, SUNY New Paltz. So I went from one big state system in New York to a big one here in California and I've been at Cal State and Northridge since fall 2017 so six years now and it's been great. I enjoy, you know, working at higher ed, I enjoy, you know, teaching and working with students. I really enjoy the research and going to conferences and talking to other, other people that are studying similar things or some different, different areas so it's been, it's been good but that's kind of how it's all come together and I'm very much it's very important to me to, to maintain good relationships with the industry I, I do a little bit of a consulting work on the side is something I want to do more of and definitely want to continue those industry relationships and, and potentially, you know, launch more of a more of a consulting business or, or something, something, you know, moving forward. So that's a little bit of kind of a little bit about my story but it's sort of a, like I said, first finding the entertainment industry but always in the back of my mind, the higher education route and then have that opportunity to finally teach if you do a few lectures and really find I really loved it so yeah. That's a great story. That is a phenomenal story I love that you're you're you're doing what you love doing and you wake up every day and you go to bed with a smile on your face and that's a, that's a great world to be in you know and and good for you and that's that's a lot of hard work on your part to get there. I have one last question for you what, if anything, would you change about the education system at the level you're at. Is that too broad a question I just and I and I was going to say specific to the entertainment field that you're in. But education is a big thing and I'm a big follower of us news and things of that nature but I'm just out of interest the. If you had if you had one wish and you could you could change the education system what would you do. There are no problem. Well I think it would be, I think, you know, more greater inroads with industry I think sometimes there. I think we do a generally good job in my department at Cal State Northridge but I have seen in other departments and other. In our industry than others but whether sometimes there's a little bit more of a of a silo there where it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be that way that it shouldn't be that, you know, we're in this ivory tower and we're separate from industry and the rest of the world and, like I said, I don't think our department is but I've seen it with some with other departments sometimes and I think sometimes there's not enough. You know, some professors are really good about about the latest industry developments and bring that in the classroom and bringing guest speakers and things like that I try to do those things. But there are some professors that are teaching some older materials some of it's kind of outdated. And some of them, they're not keeping up enough with what's going out on the industry. And I think certainly that puts students at a disadvantage when that's not being done appropriately. I mean, again, the most important thing I mean technologies are always going to change and the way things are being done and our main goal certainly is to teach students to think to be able to think and be able to process information and be able to create and develop from that. That's our primary goal but but I think we need to as best we can though, keep them up to date on what's occurring in the field, where it's moving in the next five 10 years so they're best prepared when they when they graduate. Good stuff. Randy, you have anything for for Todd today. Yes, I have a couple of questions. How did you get into blockchain and on the web three and AI technology. Well, it's something I you know I've been I've been passionate about for a while. But it's something I'm still kind of learning about. And, but yeah, I'm, I've recently started doing some interviews with people in the industry about AI and asking a few questions about blockchain and I actually just started doing this recently and I'm talking to. Particularly people that are impacted by the strikes and ideally I'd like to put together some sort of documentary of some sort or something to compile these these interviews and put them on, certainly on the near term on a YouTube channel, everything which I haven't yet yet launched but. But so it's always been interested in mind and it really kind of started was I was there were looking for volunteers or panelists for a panel about four or five years ago on AI and I volunteered I done a little bit of background research on it so I volunteer to do that but in preparation for that I explored a lot more in depth and just found a very, very fascinating. Particularly like predictive analytics and the generative AI and all the capabilities in terms of what it can do for production what it can do for marketing, what it can do for you all those things and of course, of course, tied in with what we're talking about today in terms of making sure that that there's more efficient ways that people can be compensated with the residuals and such. But yeah I certainly want to something Randy I want to learn a lot more about and, and I want to continue doing that and, and doing and talking today on this point and then in my conversation with Brett certainly I'm learning learning as we're going along here to so. Excellent. Yes, and same here as we are. Yes, as we are together. Yeah. Yeah, and, and just the this will be my last question. And how do you think that this technology can be used to make the streaming pro of platforms more profitable and maybe creating a segue where independent artists can kind of get in, kind of like more equitable access for like those that don't have the resources. How do you, how do you see that. How do you see blockchain and I play into that aspect of the industry. Sure. Now a great, great question. I mean I think in terms of the, in terms of the streamers I in terms of being more profitable. I think it does really help the fact that they can streamline some of these processes that they that in terms of production that you can, you can use AI in certain ways to help to do certain types of shots and to do that like using like drones like, you know, and doing like maybe risky or almost sometimes even physically risky camera shots and things like that where you can use a technology to do that. So I think that that instead of having to pay someone a lot of money to do that you can use those tools to do that. And I think the fact that yeah you can use the tools even in terms of coming up with additional initial ideas for programs and for content I think using that to you know at least as a maybe a starting point or something that you can integrate in with the creativity of an individual. I mean I think obviously I mean there's always a concern about AI displacing jobs and I look at it within a creative field like entertainment. We're always going to need people you're always going to because the one thing AI is not going to be as good at in terms of you know the creativity in terms of being able to synthesize and put some information together. I mean that's something that the human brain will do but but certainly using it in combination with with the human touch when at least in terms of content creation is really, really important thing. I think though in terms of the efficiency certainly with a lot of things we're talking about today. I think AI is extremely beneficial there in terms of you know efficiencies and residuals and making sure if you can automate that process. Everyone will be happier that way and certainly that will reduce costs to the streamer streaming platforms reduce the cost to the unions in trying to to disperse these payments and having to pay certain people money to be able to kind of reconcile that if you can automate that. You know certainly I think that that would be certainly a cost saver there. I think in terms of giving people the opportunity. Some of your independent people coming in or people again that are new to the industry and are trying to make inroads. They're starting their own production companies things like that I think you know all these tools are are going to provide efficiencies begin to help them in terms of yeah in terms of reducing costs and saving time in terms of not only. Creating content also marketing distribution to be able to I think in terms of analyzing particular audience segments I think AI technology is really beneficial for that and be able to use that to be able to hone in like okay so you have this content. This is an audience this isn't you know using machine learning. This is an audience that this might really resonate with and I think that'll help certainly your, your up and coming producers and people trying to make inroads to to appropriately market what they're doing it and have the right content to the right audience and then I think that automating the payment process and all that certainly is going to reduce then maybe amount of people you have to to pay for those positions but a lot of it the efficiency so I do think I do think it helps along the way and a lot I do think again and needs to happen in conjunction with with people as well and it might mean certainly in certain positions as I've kind of alluded to it would mean some job job displacement, but in a lot of cases it, particularly because it's a creative industry. It wouldn't because again you still need people to people to work with the technology and just understanding where AI tools, where they can really benefit you and then how you can use that in conjunction with with the human mind and people's creativity. Pretty awesome. Well, listen, Todd this has been a pretty awesome event today and we appreciate your insights. They're there. We have a lot more to talk about so let's let's continue the discussion. Today we had a pretty awesome discussion with Todd Holmes the associate professor of entertainment media management of California State University Northridge. And I want to thank you Todd for taking the time today. And we're going to see you again soon I hope. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you so much Brad thank you Randy. Thank you so much Todd and Brad. Take care Randy take care. Talk to you soon. Take care. Both of you. Thank you. Bye bye.