 So welcome everyone. I'm your track host for this session. Today we have Julia Simon talking to us about a vulnerable tale about burnout. So a couple of reminders. Keep your questions at the end of the session and you can also submit your questions live on meeting play app. I'll come over and give you the mic if you have any personal questions and don't forget to submit your feedback at the end of the session. With that I pass it on to Julia. Awesome. Thank you and hello everybody. I'm really, really, really happy to be here. I think we all are. That's why we're here to be doing this in person and also to have an opportunity for the folks at home to be part of the experience as well. So thank you all for your presence and attention to to this talk and topic. I'm actually just going to get the timer started. All right. Yeah, so I'm happy to be here and I just want to give a shout out to the CNCF and to cube con and cloud native con for having this talk. I'm here because I think we actually don't talk about these topics enough. And especially after this wild year that we've had of pandemic. I think everyone this is now a topic that I think is a little more trendy and it's something that everyone can relate to a little bit more in their lives. So it's nice to see your faces also because I do talk about deep dark places I went to on this journey through my burnout and also depression. And it's nice to kind of not be speaking into a screen. So thank you again for being here. My name is Julia and we're going to get started. So I'll just introduce myself a little bit. I am a mom. I have an awesome 10 year old. I am from Montreal, Canada. I work for a company in Montreal called cloud ops. They are awesome and I do community and learning and development for them. I am also part of the CNCF community. Five years ago we started doing meetups in Montreal and in different cities in eastern Canada. So we've been running those meetups for several years now. So you can check those out if you want to join our community there. I'm also an animal lover and a cyclist and I mentioned those things because they are important to the recovery of the this experience and this journey. So this is a user story. I know that we all like a good user story to hear what didn't work and then how the issue got fixed. So that's what I'm going to do today. I do want to just add a caveat that I am not a mental health professional. These experiences are my own. What happened to me, what I experienced, what I lived through, how I was able to kind of get myself out of it. So I just want to add that as something very important to mention. So when I saw the theme of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon, I was like, ah, perfect because I think we all are resilient. Humans in general are resilient and it's something that really could be the theme of my story. It's all about resilience and when you're not feeling good and you're feeling down, it's hard to remember that. It's hard to imagine that you can be feeling good again or that there will be light at the end of the tunnel. And mental health is something that I never really thought would affect me. I grew up playing sports and you just keep going and there's a lot of this, it's very taboo and it's very stigmatized. So it's something that for me was a brand new experience. And actually that's why I'm here today because it's something that I think we're again not talking enough about and something that can affect anyone. So I thought I was pretty mentally tough and actually that was a bit to my detriment because I didn't have the vocabulary to identify what I was feeling. I couldn't recognize the symptoms that I was experiencing. So it's something that I want to talk about more openly so that if you are feeling this or you know somebody who is, you can have that dialogue and open the dialogue. So again, I'm here to share my experience just so you understand sort of what happened to me and how I got out of it. And also again to normalize these discussions. So I've spoken with a lot of people here while I've been around and we're all human at the end of the day and we heard about that in our keynotes today. The people behind the tech are really important and the tech can't work unless the humans are happy and healthy. So that's part of why we're here today and why we can talk about some of these issues. So we'll start off with a pretty broad definition. Again, it's a bit of a buzzword these days, but it is a professional phenomenon and it's recognized by the World Health Organization now. It's something that is more and more commonplace, unfortunately. So what is burnout? So basically it can be it can manifest in different ways, but it's physical and or emotional exhaustion over time. So we all go through these kind of different periods in our lives where sometimes situations are more stressful. But this is a prolonged stressful time where many, many, many stressors are impacting us and we're not actually dealing with them or integrating that stress or moving beyond that stress. So I like to think of it as a bucket and you know there are things that go into your bucket and they fill the bucket. And at a certain point the bucket overflows because there's no drain valve to release what like the whatever is in the bucket. So that for me is how it manifested. For me it went into a little bit of a depression as well, mild depression. And what happened to me in that case was I kind of disconnected from the world. I got quite existential. I was cynical. I was apathetic. I wasn't really very connected to what was going on in my life. And that for me was a problem because the person that I am is very different from that person that I was at that time. So this burnout occurred in 2019. So it already has been a couple of years. Pre-pandemic, which was good because when the pandemic hit, I was like, oh great, everyone's just at my level now. So that was really, everyone was moving slowly just like I was. So that was great. So I also felt a lot of personal and professional ineffectiveness. And I would say this actually manifested for me more at work. So I had been at Cloud Ops already for five years at this time. And all of a sudden I was like, wait, I don't feel like I'm doing my job very well. What's going on? Like this isn't working and that's not working. Or I was getting requests for things and I was just annoyed. Where's this logo? What do you mean where's the logo? You should know this. So that's not typical of my personality. So that's how I started to recognize that something was off. I started to feel like things just weren't working. And I was no longer really motivated to keep trying. So I also had physical symptoms of that. So I started not sleeping well and my sleep patterns were not great. So adding that into the mix obviously created more, I guess, tension, stress, anxiety. Just in general, when we don't sleep, we can't function. So that wasn't a good situation. And then it really comes down to the perception that we have of our relationship to demands and responsibilities. So that's a really important one because we all see them differently. And we all have different demands and responsibilities regardless of what our situations are. But it's when the relationship with those things becomes, when it takes over, I guess, or when we start perceiving them in ways that are actually detrimental to us, that it really starts to build and cause issues for us over the long term. So I mentioned this slide because I am a mother, as I mentioned. And the responsibility for me was twofold. One was obviously my job and my work. But also in general, women and marginalized groups are actually starting from a bit of a different point. So we actually do have more responsibility and we take on more of the household and child-rearing chores. So it's kind of like I was starting already with a full-time job and then I'm going into my real full-time job, my work full-time job, my professional full-time job. And then I'm also expected to perform and compete and do all the things that are happening in that world. And that to me was a big challenge. So how do I balance all of these things and how do I excel at the same rate, at the same pace as my co-workers who are not dealing with the home job? So again, that was my experience. And we are all fairly aware of the equity pay gap and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's a lot happening on this level and there needs to be some form of recognition of what are the loads that people are carrying and this was a big one for me. In addition to those sort of societal norms, obviously our personal programming comes into this. So I have a very overdeveloped sense of responsibility. I like to make sure things are done, that they're done well, that everyone is well taken care of. Everyone's problem kind of became my problem, which was a bit of an issue. I like to make sure that I'm perceived in a good way and that I'm impacting people in a positive way. That can also create some issues when that burden is put on yourself. And so I was very critical of myself or hard on myself for always wanting to do a really good job all the time. So that's where the perfectionism comes into. And productivity for me was checking off a list. My self-worth was really attached to how many things am I doing, how well am I doing them. So all of these things really created a lot of weight, but I wasn't aware of that. So for me, the triggers were really layers of an onion. And as I mentioned earlier, sort of this idea of a bucket getting full. I also like the layers of an onion because things get compounded. So for me, there were, again, environmental or circumstantial things. And then there was the sort of personal programming side. So I went through a really challenging separation with my son's dad. So that took a toll. And then in turn I became a single parent. And that was, while wonderful, also a lot of responsibility and work. And then I went back to work, so after having my son. So I started in a brand new industry, this wonderful one that we're in in tech. And I'm not a technical person. So for me, the learning curve was really steep. I really wanted to make sure I was doing a good job, that I was proving myself and showing value to the organization that, yes, I'm meant to be here as well. So we all care sort of how we're doing and how we're performing at work and how people are perceiving us, quite frankly. And so I was the sole marketer in that organization. We were a small company for those first five years. So the options of what we did for work were infinite. We could be doing all kinds of different projects, all kinds of different growth. So over time that started to weigh on me because it was really overwhelming. There was a lot to be done. The team eventually did grow and that helped. But I think the sort of the overwork damage had already been done. And then for me, another layer of the onion was actually really what the element of overflowing my bucket was was grief. So my beloved dog of 13 years died and this really destroyed me. I already wasn't feeling great, but I had never experienced grief to that extent. And I didn't know how it was going to manifest. So you don't really know until you're in it. And so that experience really sent me down further into the rabbit hole that I was already in. So that paired all of those sort of external factors paired with, again, sort of my personal programming or what I was putting a lot of weight on, I guess, was this desire to please others, to make sure I was doing a good job, to make sure they saw value in me being around, proving myself the sense of obligation. So if somebody asked me to help them or asked me to go and do something, my default was to say yes. And even if it meant putting myself in a situation that I didn't want to be in, or that I was like, what am I doing here? Well, the other person's request or desire superseded mine and that for me, I didn't really realize it. And now I do. So we'll talk about that a little bit later. And of course caring what others think that kind of ties into all of this as well. I do just want to mention that, so for me, there are many layers to this onion. And in some of the discussions I've been having over the last few months, there is a feeling also of, you don't have to have a certain criteria list to be eligible for exhaustion or burnout. Just because you don't have all of these factors or have all of these responsibilities or have all whatever going on in your life doesn't mean that you can't feel exhausted and burnt out. So I just want to mention that because I had somebody say to me, yeah, but you're dealing with all this stuff and I'm just doing my work and I still feel that way. So whatever way you're feeling, regardless of your situation, especially after this time that we've lived through, it's cool. It's okay. It's part of who we are and it's important to recognize those things. So I just want to call that out because I think it's really important to mention. Okay. So I keep going and I'm in this situation where I feel very overwhelmed kind of all the time. And I'm swimming in my ocean and I'm watching people go by and all of a sudden I'm kind of feeling like, huh, this is getting hard. And I don't know if I can actually keep treading water, but look, everyone else around me is just swimming on their merry way. Okay, so there's probably something wrong with me. Why can't I do it? Why can't I continue and be doing what everyone else is doing at the same rate and at the same pace? So that for me was a really hard thing to kind of come to terms with and I figured, oh, I guess this is life. I guess we just have to suffer through it. And at some point, you know, we'll get to the end of this, but that was a bit of a sad realization, but that's really what I felt. So in 2018, when I started to feel really tired and full of the different manifestations of grief, I actually did go see my doctor and she had two recommendations. One, antidepressants. Two, get a puppy. So at this point, I was like, whoa, okay. So even my doctor is telling me to like cover it up and then do more. And that for me was really freaky. And at the time antidepressants for me were really taboo. And again, as I mentioned at the beginning, I thought, well, I should be able to handle this. You know, this is just normal life and everyone else is doing it. And you know, I should be able to do this and I don't need, you know, medication to help me get through it. And the puppy thing was just an insane idea and there was no way I was doing that. But all that to say that there was really this sort of weight of the burden of the responsibilities of all of this and I didn't really feel like there was a way out for me that made sense for where I was at that stage in my life. So I want people to know that you are not alone. And at that time I felt like I was very alone. Nobody in my circle was experiencing this. Nobody, I couldn't relate to anybody and that was part of the issue is that I couldn't, when I talked to people about it, they couldn't really understand what I was going through or they didn't know what kind of questions to ask me or what kind of support to give me. So then I actually finally break down and it takes me another year. So that was in 2018. And in 2019 I was really struggling and I was really suffering. So I mentioned that my sleep patterns were not good. I was crying all the time. I started to really question like myself worth because again at work I wasn't feeling like I was in the right place or like I wasn't effective. And that was really not a great feeling. So in 2019 I went back to my doctor and finally she was like, okay, we're going to take some time off. So that's what I did. So on a Friday afternoon I went to see my boss and I said, hey, I'm not coming in Monday. And I don't know when I'm coming back in. This was probably one of the most challenging things that I've ever done and I've given birth. So that was really hard for me as the person that I am because it felt like a complete failure. I felt like I was juggling all of these balls that I got really good at juggling and I was literally just dropping them and letting them fall and walking away, which is so counter to who I am and what I believe and what I stand for. So that was a huge, huge, huge step for me. And even though it felt like a failure, I have to say that looking back on it, it's actually probably the most courageous thing that I've ever done. And that for me was the moment of where recovery started to happen because I actually made a decision for myself and I didn't let circumstances kind of navigate where I was going. So I was in therapy. I did different talk therapies. I spoke with different coaches. I really started this journey of recovery and because I was off work, I decided, well, I'm just gonna throw myself into this. That's what a go-getter does. So I was really actively trying to get better and fix myself to the point where my doctor was like, Julia, you need to like chill out. And actually, you can't really fix that kind of issue like that. So there are different things that you can do to help, but really it requires rest and time and time to integrate and time to really think about what the triggers are and what's going on. So I did eventually end up taking antidepressants. I wanted to try to see what that experience would be like because it seemed like it could maybe help me. So I did that for six weeks and I started on a pretty low dose and I was on a low dose the whole time and I ended up having certain side effects. So I did go off them, but the benefit for me was that I was able to see the black hole from standing beside the black hole. I wasn't actually in it anymore in the tornado of that hole and not seeing a way out. I was actually able to stand beside it and be like, ah, okay, cool. There it is. Awesome. I'm aware of it now. One of the other things was that I actually really wanted to feel joyful again and I felt like it was a bit of a flat line for me. So I wanted to be really jazzed about doing stuff with my son and I didn't really always have that experience. So again, my personal experience, I tried it. I think it's something that is, for me, was very taboo, but I think it has its place in the world and it really did help me. One of the other things that I want to share with you and the kind of tips and tricks that I learned and it was just a different perspective. I had somebody advise me, like, okay, pretend like you have little Julia sitting on your hand and how do you take care of her? And like, she's so cute, you know, and there you are, little you sitting in your hand and she hurt her leg. So what do you do? Or oh, she feels sad. So what do you do? And that experience or that exercise of sort of taking care of yourself, I think we're really hard on ourselves and we don't give ourselves the time and care and love and attention that we need. And that really helped me to kind of see myself as the natural caregiver that I am, but to actually give it back to myself and that's something that you can all try. So yeah, so I did end up going through this and like I said, I stopped working. I was actually off work for about three and a half months to kind of recover. And because of the layers of my onion, it wasn't just a work situation. It wasn't just a home or emotional situation or a personal situation. It was really both. And I realized, hold on a second, like I don't know if I like what I'm doing. I don't know if I want to be doing this. And when I stopped work, the idea of it was like, it felt like I was getting out of prison and not because the job was bad or the company was bad, actually it was the complete opposite. It was because I wasn't feeling good at that point in my life. And so the relief of that and like really being able to take off the burden backpack and set it down for like five minutes was huge. And it's something I've never actually done in my life. And so that made a really big difference for me. So over time, as I mentioned, I did different things to try to feel better. I tried to take care of myself. I rested and these are some of the things that I leveraged to feel better. So I spent time outside and in nature and I spent a lot of time with horses. So that for me was really therapeutic. I live in a place where there's a mountain and on the mountain randomly, there is a police station and randomly that police station has police horses. So I would bike up the mountain in tears, crying, feeling horribly, but then I would get there and there were the horses and I could hang out with them. And just that time to be outside in a park with fresh air, seeing animals being around them made a really big difference for me. Gardening and kind of getting my hands dirty. I was actually just having a conversation with a few people earlier about how using our hands and doing something creative is a really good way of sort of disconnecting from our lives and our responsibilities. Exercise, of course, was a key one. I took time to rest, actually. And this is something that we, again, don't do very much or very often. I also have a meditation practice that I really relied on and I was really regular with and really strict about and that really helped a lot, too. Spending time with people that I love and I think when we're tired and burnt out, socializing is really overwhelming. And I think it's really important to sort of prune the friend and family tree because we should be spending time with people who add value to our lives and who energize us and who don't require us to give too much, I guess I can say, and people who are really there and supportive and people that you don't need to maintain them or the friendship for it to just be helpful. I grew a lot on my own and so learning to be patient with myself, learning to listen to my intuition and my body. So understanding like, oh, this person's asking me to do this thing or go to this thing. Do I actually want to do that? What do I think that's going to feel like? And sometimes the answer is really clear and sometimes you don't know what it could be and you could do something and it ends up being amazing even though you weren't sure about it at the beginning. So I think like really taking the time to feel into my body of like, how are things actually, how do I think this is going to feel and not just coming to it from a rational place. The other thing that is really important that I thought was awesome, my therapist always asked me, what's the worst that can happen? And I would answer, okay, and then what's the worst that can happen after that? This thing, okay, and then what? And then what? And so asking myself, what's the worst that can happen? I was like a bomb diffuser at that point. And so really being able to dissect situations and realize, okay, I'm actually really getting anxious about these things, but if I sort of like play the movie, it doesn't end up being so bad in the end and so that was a really helpful trick as well. I learned to set boundaries and to say no, which was really, really, really key, something I'm not used to doing. So that felt really good. And I also stopped judging myself for paying for some services. So sometimes I had to buy food. I was the mom who always wanted to make all the home cooked meals and bake and do all that stuff. So I was really hard on myself for actually buying pre-made meals, but changed my life. I really judged myself for having someone help me clean my house every month or two weeks or whatever it was. And I finally just accepted like, these are things that help me in my life and I'm willing to save my money and actually put a budget aside for these things and it's alleviating a lot of my stress. So then I went back to work after three and a half months and I realized, oh yeah, right. I also don't want to be in marketing anymore. So everything kind of happened at the same time. So again, I did some professional coaching. Yes, I invested lots of time and money into my recovery and I don't regret a single minute or penny of it. And that really helped me a lot. I was able to better understand my strengths and talents. And actually one of the exercises she had us do was to, she had me do, sorry, was to ask other people what they thought my strengths were. So people who are close to me, my close friends, my family. And that was one of the most empowering experiences ever because we don't always see ourselves the way other people see us. And that for me really allowed me to have the courage to go back to my employer who is wonderful and say, hey, I think I want to make a change. But because we're a small company in tech, there's not that many, there are not that many roles for non-technical people. Thankfully, the wonderful people at CloudOps allowed me to actually pitch this role that I'm currently in and there was a need for that in the business at the time. So I was actually able to pivot and change the role that I do within that organization and start learning new things. So this was a huge motivator, also scary because I was in a new world. But I really got there and I really was excited about the challenge of learning new things. I also work four days a week. Now, and this has completely changed my life. It allows me to have a little space to be on my own, to take care of the things I need to take care of, to be more present for my son as well. So it's something that I feel really strongly about and I hope that our collective work culture will eventually head that direction. So it's been two years. So I talked to you through my journey a little bit, but I do want to tell you a little bit about some of the key takeaways for me. So mindset shift. For me, I talked a little bit about this, but being able to set boundaries, being able to kind of process things in a different way, to say no, to not always give into this sense of obligation really helped me a lot. I stopped pleasing everybody and started pleasing myself and making sure that, you know, it's really that thing on the plane where you got to put your mask on before helping somebody else. I really started to embody that and I find that in doing so, I'm actually way more prepared and ready to help others because I actually feel good. So making sure that I'm fulfilled and strong and healthy actually enables me to do better work and be more present and be more effective actually for the responsibilities that I have in my life. I also, of course, learned to identify my triggers and to know, to just be, have a little more awareness in general in life about what's bothering me and what's hard for me and what's a challenge and why, and just have a little bit more of that. And also, you know, talking about therapy more, talking about these things and really shifting to, oh, this is not a secret that people shouldn't know about me. You know, as I mentioned, I'm really proud of this experience. I'm proud of what transformation I went through and what learning I had and that's why I'm here to talk about it. Okay, this one's going to be controversial for most of us here. So Twitter is not your best friend. I know that's like a really, I'm like really sorry to break the news, but this is a really big one because we spend a lot of time on social media and it's our go-to thing. Whenever we're bored, whenever there's a hole to fill, it's like we're on our phones and doing that. So I actually turned off all my notifications. I actually removed for several years social media apps. I really wanted to have the control of, okay, when I am ready to be exposed to these notifications or these messages, I choose to go in to read those things. They're not being pushed at me all the time. So really changing my mindset around social media helps a lot and FOMO. So the fear of missing out is super real and what happens when we're on these platforms is like, so-and-so is doing this. So-and-so is going there and this thing is happening. This webinar, there's all these things all the time and it's really hard to ignore the feeling that we can often get to be like, oh, I should be there. I should be doing that. Oh yeah, that thing looks cool. Oh, I got to write to that. All of those things that come along with it. So really letting go of the fear of missing out was key for me and it's like, I'm going to go to the things that I want to go to all this other stuff and accepting that all the other stuff is just going to happen and when you're ready to go into those things, you will be and when you come out of them, the world keeps going and things continue and you're not worse off for it. So yeah, it creates a lot of anxiety. So just to be aware and mindful of that and then a healthy routine and habits. I think this probably goes a little bit without saying, but taking time to sleep, enough sleep and resting. So there's a great practice called Yoga Nidra in case anyone is interested. I mentioned it because it's probably one of the most accessible things you can do. You can find it on YouTube or on Spotify or anywhere really and it's basically a guided body scan. So it's something that is really helpful and it's intentional rest. We are not often intentionally resting. So it's something that we really need to take the time to do. As I mentioned, spending time with people who enhance our lives, not people who drain our energy and general mindfulness exercises. So gratitude is also a really easy one. Journaling, just taking some time and space for yourself. So if you are feeling tired or you are feeling burnt out, please talk to somebody about it. You're not alone. You can reach out to me. You can talk to anyone in your circle who you feel comfortable with. You can find a therapist and talk to them about it and prioritize what makes you happy. I think the pandemic, if it's taught us anything, it's really about what do we value? What's actually important in life? You know, it's those things really matter and it's about taking stock in those things and appreciating them. And if you are in a leadership role or if you work on a team or you have the ability to help somebody, if you're not feeling burnt out and you're feeling really happy and healthy and good, how you can help people is actually ask people how they're doing. And don't just ask at a courtesy. Ask because you actually want to hear the answer. So it doesn't mean that you need to solve somebody else's problems or fix all the things. It just means that you care enough to ask or care enough to actually listen and to ask another question to be curious about how somebody is doing. So listen attentively and if you do have the ability to help somebody shift either their schedule around or to help them in some way with some flexibility, I recommend that as well. So on that note, I want to thank you all for your time and attention and presence and I hope this was helpful and if you have any questions or comments.