 This is the Art of Charm Podcasts' show where we bring you actionable tips and strategies on how to better connect socially, boost your emotional intelligence, and navigate social behavior. I'm Johnny. And I'm AJ. This is a new month. Yeah. We are now focusing on a new theme. And for October, we decided that we're going to talk about networking. And I think, one, it's on everyone's mind, whether you're looking for a job, whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're just starting your career. How do I expand my network is a question we get all the time from our boot camp participants here in LA. Well, one of the things, certainly in music, it's the old saying, it's not how good you are. It's who you know. But that is across the board. For a lot of people, networking gets a bad rap, because we think about business cards and elevator pitches and going to events. And for a lot of us, especially if we're a little introverted or have a little social anxiety, it's overwhelming thinking about running the room, talking to hundreds of people and shaking hands and getting to know everyone. So we're going to dispel some myths around it, and we're going to share some stories about how we built the art of charm through networking. And I know in the past, we've talked a lot about social circles, but your network is a little different. So we're going to talk about the nuance there. But in building the art of charm, I don't think we could be where we are today without our network. I think that's a really important point to make for a lot of us, that we don't understand the missed opportunities when we are short-sighted, small-minded, and only think that hard work is going to be enough to get us there. Well, there is that. And also, everyone looks at us because we've been doing this for so long. And they're like, well, it's easy for you guys. You got the Rolodex. You know people. You've been doing this for so long. Well, there was a time when there was no Rolodex. There was no Rolodex. And we were just starting out. And getting even guests on the show was an difficult thing. I personally even remember reaching out to publicists and PR people to see if I could get people to come on the podcast early in our history. And for the publicists, they're like, what? A pod? What? Yeah, get out of here, kid. Quit bothering us. And don't call us anymore. But now, lots of people, podcasts are the rage. You can even say that they're still growing and it's the new thing. And we get inundated with people who want to come on the show now. But it wasn't like that in the early days. And some of our biggest episodes ever have come through our network. They haven't come from a cold email. They haven't come from a cold phone call or chasing a publicist or a PR. They've actually come from people in our network saying, hey, you should have this person on or, hey, I know this person who knows this person. So the value of your network, a lot of us don't realize until we really need it when we're desperate for it, when we need that connection, when we need that opportunity. And this is something we've talked about in the past on the show, this idea of developing social capital, developing yourself as a good listener, as someone who gives value, who's supportive of the people around him. And that is how you foster social capital, which we can use to build our network. And that social capital goes a long way. And for me to see people who abuse it or who are unfamiliar with how it works, it can be quite cringy. You know, certainly when you see maybe a Facebook friend hit somebody up and they're like, hey, I'm going to be in New York next week. Can I can I sleep on your couch? You know, I got some things going on in your body. It's like, well, I don't really, you know, I didn't think about it. And the thing about it is the person who's asking, you know, they see it as, oh, this is my opportunity to put my hand out and get some help in network where the other person's like, where is the value in this for me? And, you know, one of the things that that is difficult when it comes to the scenes that people run in, it's always about what can the scene do for me and what can this person do for me and where is this person at in their ladder so I can use them to get a leg up? And that is the wrong way to be looking at it. And and I hate to use a tire trope at John F. Kennedy said it best. It's, you know, don't ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country. So don't look at your social circle about what you can get from it. Right. Look at your social circle and look at what you can contribute to it. And social capital is how you build your reputation. Yes, it's how you build your credibility. It's how you become someone of value that people want to introduce you to other people. They want to network with you. They want to host you. But unfortunately, a lot of us view networking as transactional. What can I get from that person? And if I don't see value that I can get from that person, well, they're not worth my time. They're not worth connecting with. They're not worth talking to. Well, let's break that down. The reason that people look at these things transactionally is they probably started out thinking that they're going to be giving agreeable, positive people. However, after putting themselves out there, after at least what they're thinking is contributing to the situation and then they don't see it returned, you start to become embittered. The issue with this is because they're looking at it from a transactional lens. I've given value in, where's my value back? But it just doesn't work in that manner. And if you've been listening to the show, you understand the idea of high value behaviors and actions comparatively too low value behaviors and actions. If you've listened to the show, you've also realized that in there is the and how we give value doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get value in the exact same way that you have given it. And there's many different ways to give value in and get value out. And you need to be be able to recognize when they're coming or you've missed it. Right. And when you've missed it, you can feel burned out. Yes. You can feel regretful. You can feel frustrated that, hey, this transaction isn't working for me. My checkbook is in balance here. Well, Adam Grant says it best that you need to be able to see some sort of return to fuel you when when you're giving all the time so that you can continue to fuel yourself to continue giving. And this is why you have to open your eyes to all the different ways that that you're able to give value. So you're able to see all the different ways you're able to receive value so you can continue fueling yourself. And, you know, I always use this example. If I've given you a contact and I'm waiting for you to give me a contact. Well, you know, there's been there's many different ways that you could return that favor, perhaps you had taken me and the girlfriend out for drinks or that perhaps you didn't give a contact back. But you threw in a good word with a marketer that I'm looking for so that when I speak to them, there's a reputation there that has already been built. Yeah. And I think, unfortunately, we typically operate from the lens of the value that we give. Yeah. And some of us are focused on the contacts and getting as many contacts as possible and wanting to have a wide network. Some of us don't really value the contacts as much and would rather have the support to build the marketing funnel or to build the website. And unfortunately, when we look at how we get value back from others, if we're only looking through the lens of how we give it, we're going to miss out on a lot of that value and get frustrated. You know, the the other thing is think about some of the the higher value people who who really have it together and their lives are very busy and they're they're so busy that they have somebody handling that schedule. So, you know, that the value that giving back, you mentioned one of support or or even if you get time with somebody whose time is that much more precious when you're when you have nothing going on, you have time all day to meet up with people. So that there's the value that is there is not as important or is worth as much to the person who doesn't have that time, which all of a sudden that time becomes a very precious thing. And it's different for everybody. And this is why if you haven't listened to the value episodes, I would suggest you go back and there's two and you listen to those so that some of these ideas or a little bit are clear to how our represent our presentation. Yeah. And when we're talking about value, we're talking about giving someone attention, approval and acceptance. Yes. The three A's. That's that's what we're talking about. So we give people our attention by being empathetic listeners, by paying attention to what they're posting on social media. That's listening. They're LinkedIn. That's listening, seeing what they're posting. They're shouting out into the world. Hey, I want you to check this out. That's one of the ways we can give value, giving likes on Facebook, commenting as much as we talk about going offline and actually calling that person, meeting up with them in person, giving them your full attention. That's one way to give value. And when we're starting out in our career, when we're just getting our feet wet, when we're trying to get excited about building something that typically is the only way that we have to give value. And it's an important one in this attention economy. Well, and to go along with that, those who are listening to the show, I'm sure a lot of people are saying to themselves, well, I'm a high value person or I'm sure I have plenty of value to give. And the thing about value and being a high value person is that you have to cultivate it. It's not a switch that you just flip. It's something that you have cultivated within yourself that handles mindsets and your perspectives on things so that you're able to give value out in the world and be comfortable without getting it in return. In a way, yeah, and aware when it comes in. So you're appreciative of it. The second is that exact thing, appreciation, approval. How can we allow that person to feel good, accept them, help them feel as if what they're talking about on social media is the most important thing is something of value. So appreciation is celebrating the people in our lives. And we can do that in a lot of ways. One of the ways we can give appreciation is actually by telling them straight up. I know we talk about this in boot camp all the time. Being more appreciative of the people around you who are investing time and energy in you is a great way to give value. And then the third and final way we talk about is acceptance. And that's really welcoming into your network. One of the ways we do that is by exchanging contacts. Hey, meet this person. Hey, I got a referral for you. Hey, I think this person can really help you. That's another way that we give value and develop out our social capital. Now, why are we talking about all of this? I think for months now, we've been talking about social circles and conversation and building out our friend group. And a lot of times we don't think about our network. Your network is slightly different than your social circle. Yes, your social circle is your confidence. You're spending a lot of time together. You're really invested in one another. Science says your network is actually weaker ties. So it's people who, based on your credibility, based on your reputation, are in your network. They know people that you know. And if you could potentially need something, if you want to exchange some information, they are what is considered in your network. So sociologists look at your circle of friends that most of us have as people that live nearby. They have same interests and generally, they have the same life experiences because we probably met them through a life experience. Your network, you actually want to be a little bit different. Your network, you want to be more spread out. Your network, you want to be diverse from multiple disciplines, multiple backgrounds. You probably won't have the same shared life experiences. And having that unique perspective added in your network. So you have people who could be your mentor, people who could be your mentee. That's your network, which is, of course, slightly different than the social circle that we've talked about. And most people's social circles are fairly small. It's tough to invest that much time and energy in a lot of people. But your network is something that you can easily manage through social media, through LinkedIn, through Facebook. Simple check-ins can allow you to keep that network, keep in touch with people and look for opportunities to give them value. You know, it's funny, because we've been known to rail on social media and technology here at The Art of Charm. And I always, I laugh about it because it's an easy target. And it deserves to be the whipping boy for a while as well. However, when used properly, social media is a wonderful tool to manage your networks. Yeah. And again, network versus social circle, right? Social circle, spending a bunch of time farting around on Facebook or LinkedIn is probably not a good use of your time. But a few minutes a day, managing your network, reaching out to people based on what they're posting on is a way to cultivate that social capital so that when you do need a couch to sleep on, you do need a reference or you are looking for a job, you're not putting the other person out because they've felt supported with you for years. That's how we invest in our network. And I know myself in college, I didn't really think about a network. It wasn't on my mind. It was how do I get my social circle in order? How do I find the right person to date? How do I find the right people to go hang out with? And of course, in my social circle, well, we all went to the same university, we all work in the same lab, we all have very similar life experiences. Now I look back and I think about all the missed opportunities for networking, going to events, going to meet people outside of my immediate social circle is how you start to cultivate that network. And one of the myths that we're gonna be dispelling and certainly is about the whole idea of running around the room and trying to collect as many cards and the thing that you have to keep in mind in building your network is though you can certainly do things to speed up the process, nature in and itself and familiarity and getting comfortable people also go a long way. And so you have to have patience and building it and putting it together because certainly not everyone you meet is good for your network or your social circle. And of course, we've talked about that, we talked about in the program of what behaviors of high value characters look like so that you can welcome into your network because if you bring in somebody of low value who is looking to take, we understand those toxic behaviors, how they spread and how one person can wreak havoc upon a network and a social circle to a point where not only does it collapse on itself, no one from that feels good about trusting anyone ever again and you have to be aware of this. And one of the things is when you start looking around at your social circle and the people that you have and you mentioned something about, oh, they were guys from the lab or oh, we see them all the time. Okay, so why did you bring them in? What did you see from these people that allowed you to know that you're bringing in good character people that will help build up this network and social circle rather than tear it down? And a lot of times people looking at me are going, well, I really hadn't done anything. Well, we haven't screened it. So you don't even know what you have just because they're familiar and the propiquity is in place, doesn't give them the right to enter it. Right, and I think, unfortunately, a lot of us again are trying to play the numbers game and just get as wide and as big of a network as possible and not realizing that when you're not selective in who you let into your network and you do them a solid, you give them some social capital, you make an introduction, you put your name on the line for them and it doesn't work. Yeah. There is a reputational hit. And unfortunately there are, as Adam Grant would say, there are more takers than there are givers. Yes. And being able to spot them, look at those low value behaviors, allow you to prune the network so that the network is full of people that are supportive that you are comfortable supporting. And the other thing we wanna talk about here when we think about network is just how much of the world works through your network. Most of us don't realize that there are so many things happening through the network because we haven't really experienced them. And for me, as I said, in college, I hadn't experienced my network really paying off until I applied to graduate school. And my boss, when I just got out of college in the lab, put his name on the line for me. He was in my network. And all of a sudden I got into the University of Michigan PhD program because he put his neck out. That was the first time. And my dad didn't have a big network growing up. It wasn't really even something that we thought about. We thought more about family and social circle. And that was when I started to realize, wow, okay, just by someone putting in a good word, they can look past some grades. They can look past test score. They can look past a lot of things through that weak tie. I'm not being invited to my bosses' dinners for Christmas or holidays, but he knew me well enough to say, hey, this is someone that you should accept into graduate school. And not only that, there is now an obligation on your end to do your best to allow your boss to look good because you're gonna want him down the road to continue to have his name be worth something so that other people can ride that same train that you did. And that's why we wanna focus on building your social capital, not taking social capital, right? Building on that social capital would be over-delivering in graduate school, impressing them so that my boss, he earns a reputational bump through that as someone who's referring and recommending great people. And another big opportunity for the show, again, through network. At a party, meet some people, get introduced to someone who does PR at SiriusXM, all of a sudden we're being invited on SiriusXM radio show that turns into our own SiriusXM radio show. Back in the day. That, again, wouldn't have happened if all we were doing was focusing on hanging out with our friends, hanging out with our social circle. So network is important to at least spend some time working to build earlier the better. And I think a lot of us, again, try to build the network too late. We get ourselves in a situation where our friends can't find us the job, we don't have any options and we're like, shoot, I wish I had a network. Now I better start reaching out to people and start building a network. And you're hoping on a wing and a prayer that somebody goes to bat for you and hooks you up. And if you haven't spent much time contributing to it, it's going to be difficult, right? But if you are known as somebody who builds that network up, who contributes to it, who always support, you better believe that those people are gonna go to bat for you. Absolutely. And for us, all of these little bits of going out, putting ourselves out there, going to events, meeting people, it came down to first impression, having a great first impression. And one of the questions that I ask a lot of people who sign up for the bootcamp is, what do you think your first impression is? And a lot of us don't even realize or think about what our first impression is. No. We don't realize just how important it is. When we're creating weak ties in a network, your first impression goes a long way to that person feeling comfortable. It certainly does. So understanding your body language goes into it, understanding that adding value, being a positive person all influences that first impression. Well, there's a lot there about taking the time to learn about yourself. And obviously, if you're listening to the show, we know that you guys, or at least, are interested in learning. The implementation is much more difficult and perhaps there is a wall there. But if you're listening to the show, I'm going to guess that there is an urgency and a want to learn about yourself so that you're able to contribute and do better out in the world. And that first impression, not only can it be developed, if you've never taken the time to think about it or develop it, then it could use some work, but also there's the part of having to be honest with yourself to take the feedback when you ask for it. Right. Improving in this area is one of the easiest ways to start to grow your network. Because that first impression doesn't only impact the person you met. They think about that in connecting you with people. So that first impression actually has exponential potential or exponential damage if it's not handled properly. Well, let's look at it this way. Let's just say that you were a bit introverted and because of that, you have some natural anxiety of meeting new people and that's a difficult thing. I think all of us can understand that and knows how that works. Hell, I even think a lot of introverted people have to deal with that at times too. You don't know every party or event or social gathering that you go to. So there's always an initial fear of walking into the unknown. However, if that is not something that you normally do or you haven't been through the taking the efforts to get better at that, if you leave people leaving a conversation or introduction feeling a little bit weird like, wow, I don't wanna have to deal with that again, well, they're certainly not gonna recommend you for a job or a referral. Right, there's no opening of their network. There's no LinkedIn. There's no ability for you then to get in if your first impression is something that's leaving people wondering how what's this guy's or gal's deal. Yeah, and now let's say that you've done some work on yourself. You know how to make a good impression. You've went through some efforts to sharpen up everything and your conversation skills. So even though you may be walking into the unknown of a new social event, at least you've been around the block. You've had some, you've done some work on yourself. So now you're able to go in. You have a big smile. Your body language is open. People are engaging with you when you're able to speak to them. You catch a couple of emotional bids here or there. You make, you come back with a shared emotional statement. You all share a laugh and let's just say that's where it is. But that happened through a friend. You're gonna leave or that person's going to leave and they're gonna like, hey, you're your buddy that I met. He seemed rather cool. What's his deal? Right. Now the door is open. Oh, that's AJ. He's super rad. He's a great guy. You gotta spend some time with that guy, right? And now these doors are open and why are these doors open? Because of how you allow this person to feel in a situation that everyone knows and it's just slightly a bit awkward. Let's make no bones about it. Meeting people for the very first time comes with a bit of tension and pressure because you're both walking into the unknown. You either are going to have the skills to manage that tension and pressure and mitigate it and not allow it to be so heavy or you're going to bring in the tension and pressure and it's just gonna continue to add up till one or both you need to leave that situation. And guess what? You are not gonna wanna put yourself in that situation again. So if that is my first impression of meeting AJ, well, I see that guy again like, oh, I'm not heading that way. That guy's a little bit weird. Right, and then if I hit you up asking for something weeks later, you're not gonna open your network up. You're not gonna look at that as an opportunity to add some social capital. So understanding that first impression goes a long way and why are we going on and on about network because these weak ties matter. And you know we love science here. In the 1960s, Mark Granavetter, back then he was a PhD student at Harvard, set out to look at just this. And in his study, he has 282 men, how they found their current job and he tracked how they heard about the physician, who asked them for referrals, how they got the interview and just in general, who is helping them land the job. In his paper, The Strength of Weak Ties, published in 1973, he found that when it came to finding a job, a person's friends were eager to help and strangers were not. Well, duh, no surprise there. But the surprise was that casual acquaintances called weak ties were also very likely to offer a helping hand. And exactly because they were not a close connection, they knew of a lot of job openings that the survey participants would have otherwise never heard of. So having a heterogeneous network of people, a diverse group that can offer new opportunities, but let's talk about the other side of this, Johnny, new perspectives. Yes. I know for a lot of us when we see a problem, we have our angle at it, our low resolution view and our friends tend to have the same view. That's why we get along. We have the same temperament. We enjoy the same things, but guess what? That problem could be pretty tough to handle if all you have is one or three or four very similar perspectives. What happens when we have a large diverse network? Well, with a large diverse network, you have different perspectives because people have had different experiences than you have. They've learned from different places and they're bringing all that to the table. And by looking at a problem from many different angles, now the low resolution becomes high resolution and you're able to find your way through that problem because you get more information. And the thing about it also is if you're looking at it from your own perspective, not only are you getting one angle low resolution view of it, it is low resolution because it is distorted by your own emotions because it is your problem. And so you're stuck dealing with it and with everything that comes with it because it is a problem, like frustration, right? And when other people are able now to look at it, they're not distorted with emotion. They have a different experience and a different perspective and it helps you put a better picture together. Yeah, for example, and I always harp on this because so many of us, when we think about building our network, we only think about the people ahead of us. I just want that super smart person in my network or I just want that influential person in my network. We don't often think about, we wanna build a network with people who are just starting, who are at our level and who are ahead of us because each of those perspectives is important. And we have a YouTube channel, we're trying to grow it. The Art of Charm TV, you can check it out, you can watch us on the podcast here. And in trying to grow this YouTube channel, I've had a few different perspectives. I've had my own frustrations with trying to get views, trying to get subscribers, talk to some friends who actually have more successful channels. They include me in on something that's more important, watch time, right? Not knowing these things, I would have never realized that that's important, right? Now looking at the problem from my viewpoint of, I want more views, how can I get more views, right? That seems to be important. People who are ahead of us know, well, watch time is what matters, not the number of views as much as we'd like it to think. Then I started talking to a buddy who just started his YouTube channel. And he was telling me all these little things that he's done to get some action moving. And that perspective is also just as helpful. A lot of times when we only focus on the perspectives of the people who are ahead of us, we miss out on the opportunities for the people who are just starting out. They're hungry, they're solving problems, they're trying to come at it from a different angle, they're hacking things together. And all three of those perspectives are very helpful to your success. It's not just about finding the mentor, right? And understanding that a lot of times when we look past the people who are just starting out, guess what? Sometimes they're gonna zip past you. Sometimes they're gonna open new doors that you didn't know were imaginable. But if you look down on them, you're like, oh, he just graduated from school. Oh, he's not in the same field as me. He's not in the same industry. Why do I need to get to know him? We miss out on these opportunities. Well, like anything, once you put yourself in a mode to chase, things run away. And if things are running away, then they're gonna be difficult for you to capture. However, while you're chasing these other people, these other folks are working on the problem. They're growing their thing. They're concentrating on what they're doing. And guess what? Because they've done that, the people you're chasing notice the people who are working on their thing. And so they're getting that mentorship. They're getting that time that you are so desperately looking for that you could have had if you had been working on your own thing rather than chasing these people around. And we get the letters. We get hit up about coming on this show all the time. We see the people who are chasing us and the harder they chase, the more annoying it is. And it's like, listen, I would love to do some of these people a favor, but you get to a point where you only have so much time and so much efforts to be able to give out. And it's like, I know personally, I've said to myself, I just wish this person would just chill for a bit and work on what they're doing and build something that brings some value in for me to help them. And also, how many times have we been in a situation where people have said, listen, you guys are just not ready for us yet. But if you keep plugging away and come back and see me when you get some things moving in a year or whatnot, and then let's have another talk. How many folks in our network have passed us up or let us know that only to come back and fold once we got our acting gear and we're able to start- Months, years, later, right? And that's the thing. If you don't take the long game perspective of this, if you don't look at this as something that you're building your entire lifetime and something that will add value at some future date that you're not even thinking about, then it's that short-sighted viewpoint that actually makes you a taker. It doesn't allow you to build the social capital necessary to have that network. And these diverse perspectives are incredibly important. One of our previous guests, David Henzel, good buddy of mine mentored us. And he started a software as a service company, hosting and CDN essentially. And we were having some talks about some difficulties I was having with The Art of Charm and getting the business on track with some lead generation. And he said, have you ever thought about Live Chat? And I was like, yeah, we played with it, but it didn't really work for us. And he's like, no, I think you should really look at Live Chat on your website so that people who are on the pages that are the most valuable to you, you start interacting with. And I was like, ah, that probably just works for you. He's like, why don't you try it? What can it hurt? So went back, installed Live Chat, got some things going. That one thing paid off in spades over the history of this company. And that's again, due to the fact that my network, I'm not saying, oh, are you a coach? Oh, you're not a coach, get out of my network. Oh, are you a multimillionaire? No, you're not, get out of my network. I'm looking for diverse perspectives when I'm building my network because I know the value they add to me, not only when I'm having problems, but when I'm trying to grow things, when I'm getting excited about things as well. And we also want to wrap this with some myths. Plus some misconceptions. Now let's take a look at three common misconceptions that many people have about networking. The first we've touched on a little bit is this whole idea of keeping score, right? This balancing my checkbook, I need to make sure I get something out of my network or he doesn't need to stay in my network. He's of no value to me. It's not about keeping score. And if you are in the mindset of keeping score, you have switched to a transactional mindset. And this puts you at a hindrance because now you're second guessing and weighing all your options. When your first option should be contribute, it should be to give. And I know when people hear this, they're like, well, I don't want to get taken advantage of. I understand that. However, it is your social circle that you have built. So if you're getting taken advantage of, that's not on the other people. That is on the people that you have brought in. Yeah, time is our most valuable resource. We may not realize it, especially our younger listeners, but it is your most valuable resource. And if you are spending time with people who are toxic, who are low value, who are transactional, who are looking very short-sighted at things, it is gonna burn you out. It is gonna frustrate you. It is gonna exhaust you. It is. And anyone who, you know, when it comes to building anything and certainly in entrepreneurship, that transactional minds, the thing about entrepreneurship, I don't think everyone really, truly understands the epic roller coaster ride that it is. And us, even in 13 years, we still deal with the roller coaster. And there is nothing worse than waking up in the morning and being burnt out. Because in and building anything, if that takes your inspiration and your desire to go out and fight, well, then what's left? Because that's what entrepreneurship is. It's about seeing an idea through. And I think we're, even when it comes to your career, you're building your career. Of course. I think we're now in an age where we know the likelihood of us staying at one company, retiring from that company and getting a pension, is falling through the floor. The odds are you're gonna work at multiple companies, you're gonna find that you're moving and your career is what you're building. Right. As an entrepreneur, the company is what we're building. But when you are building, you want fuel. You don't want people who are tearing down what you're building. You need it. And there are gonna be highs and lows in your career. There are gonna be highs and lows in building a business. It's no different. The important part in all of this is if you are immediately keeping score and tracking whether or not this person has done you a favor or done something for you, you are then going to reinforce that and attract the wrong people. You are gonna find that you are only surrounded by people who are keeping score. That's the fallacy. When we think, oh, I'm keeping this balanced score and I'm keeping my network neutral, actually what's happening is you're self-selecting for other people who are keeping score and other people who are likely to take from you. And life is, it's not easy. And you need to be able to find that fuel and that inspiration wherever you can get it. And we have our executive VIP clients who you would think from, if you saw their paperwork of who they are right now, you're like, this guy's got no problems. These people have got money for days and a life that is more Instagrammable than Instagrammable lives. However, they wake up with their own issues and problems just like everybody else, regardless of how much money is in their bank account. And you hear these things, but until you're dealing with it, face to face and realize that this is true, that these people do have these problems and they look for those moments of inspiration and getting fired up and the fuel wherever they can get them because they're out building as well. And of course, for those of you who are younger, listening to this, that attention is what we're all craving. So whether it's a mentor situation, if you're looking up to someone, they are craving attention. They have their own struggles. So you can support them in ways that maybe right now your bank account doesn't show or your title doesn't show. So it's not to discourage the young ones who are trying to build the network. And those of us who are older, we're still networking. We went to breakfast this morning, networking. We're always looking at opportunities to meet people who are doing interesting things, who have a positive outlook and energy about them because they're a great fit for our network. You know, speaking with our meeting this morning and it was somebody that we've had on the podcast who would just happen to be in town and we were really excited to go meet this person face to face because we had a good interview. And it's funny because they wanted to talk to us because they're now breaking into the podcast space themselves, so they wanted some tips and things like that. You know, this person is definitely in a much better place and has been building businesses for longer than we have and there is a lot for us to be gained from that person. But for us, he asked us because he wanted to get our info on podcasting and we went to give to this relationship. Was there anything in it for us to go, oh, I hope we get back or this guy? I need this connection, I need this person, right? When you're going in, trying to build your network by keeping score. And now saying, oh, well, we had a great breakfast, gave all this podcast information. Now, where's mine? Where's my piece of the action here? That viewpoint actually stunts the growth of your network. To go along with that, you know, it was funny because we tried to have a dinner meeting and he's like, listen, my dinners are all taken for this week, but, you know, we're like, okay, well, let's do the breakfast. See, it is small things like that. So we had this breakfast meeting and me waking up this morning, I was excited. Why? There was something novel that was going on. This is inspiration. And in fact, there was nothing that we were getting out of this. It was for him, but it was the new doors of a new relationship that is that we get to open up and we get to contribute. So we're in the driver's seat here and that was a wonderful thing. But we are only able to see that we're in the driver's seat in this and having the opportunity to contribute because of the work that we have done on ourselves and the science that goes behind this that shows that. And I'm really excited for that relationship to continue to blossom. Absolutely. And understanding that trying to balance your network when you're building your network, when you're maintaining your network is not a good way to look at it. All of our network or the last 13 plus years that we've built together, we've had opportunities to give, give, give and then years later, we get something back. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. People are busy, people are focused on themselves but being generous, being generous with your attention, being generous with your appreciation and being more accepting of people and not being so judgmental are ways that we can stimulate and grow our own social capital. Now, I mentioned this other misconception a little bit earlier and this is a big one. It's not all about connecting with the top of the pyramid. Yeah. I find this time and time again to be one of the biggest mistakes that you can make is just pursuing the most successful people in the room to build your network on their backs. Well, it's easy to get in that sort of mindset because you see them. Why do you see them? Because they're getting the attention from everyone in the room. So your curiosity naturally goes up and you're like, hey, who's the group over there? Oh, well, they're this and they got that and they're doing this and because everyone seems to know them and they're getting all this attention, well, of course, we know that attention approval acceptance, flood your dopamine systems, that allows you to feel good. So of course you're like, well, I want some of that. So of course the natural inclination is to chase that. However, you want to be able to override those natural inclinations to go for a better route. And certainly it's still on the table that you're going to be interacting with that group. However, trying to find the value that you can bring to them will open some doors but a better route to this is to build your own and have them take notice and have them walk over to you. And I mean, we could talk music references all day. I know Johnny with rock and roll, whether it's rap, everyone talks about, they don't get excited about the people who found them when they were superstars. They're most connected to and give back to the people who knew them when they were small and they were just starting when they were nobody and open the door for them. So a lot of us with this idea of kiss up, kick down, look down on the people who are below us, who just started a podcast, who just started a coaching company, who just started their own business, who just graduated and is now starting their first engineering job and they're hitting you up on LinkedIn or they're coming up to you at the networking event or they're emailing you. All of us have this immediate urge of like, well, this person isn't successful, not give them my time. Guess what? All of those people that are hitting you up are go-getters, they're on their way to success and it is worth investing in them just as much as it's worth chasing the people who are way ahead of you. You mentioned a saying there that I really liked and I wanna make sure that people get it and it's from Adam Grant, I believe, which is the kiss up, kick down. Can you wanna explain that to the folks listening? Yeah, essentially it's this idea of shmoozing and trying to win over or brown nose, whatever you wanna call it, that people are the most successful in the room. Chasing after the most successful people and in the process kicking down. So looking at anyone who's beneath you is not worth your time, not worth being generous with, not worth giving value, has no social capital, therefore much like keeping score, I'm not gonna let them into my network. Right. And it's fascinating to me because over the last 13 years, we have welcomed into our network people who are just starting podcasts, people who are just starting companies and guess what? They're successful now. They have big shows. They have huge YouTube channels. And if we just looked at it as, oh, you're not successful enough for my time, they wouldn't be in our network. So that's a huge misconception of just chasing the most successful people in the room, realizing that if someone's reaching out to you for your time, if someone's doing it in a high value way and not transactionally are trying to abuse it, it's worth being generous. It's worth being generous with your time. And well, these things are difficult because as you get more successful, your time becomes more valuable and yet you're still looking to build out and bring in new worthwhile people to your network. So how do you do that? Well, we've given you the recipes for this, which is, and you can go back, it's throwing a dinner party and welcoming in some of these new leads and new people that you haven't had that opportunity to find that time, bring them in, let them schmooze with your friends, see how they operate. These opportunities are going to not only allow you to learn more about some of these new people that you've been thinking about bringing into your life, but you're also going to see how they operate in that scenario. Are they nice to the guests when they come in? Are they being open? Are they- Do they bring something? Yeah. We made sure to interact with everyone. Yeah. We have them value and attention. Are they on their phone? Are they being judgmental? Are they being rude? You know, these are all factors. The last misconception and probably one of the biggest, because whenever you say networking, it's such a loaded word, people cringe, oh God, business cards. Networking is not just about going to events. Yes. We have network, there are people in our networks that we've met in elevators, that we've met at coffee shops and in fact, one of our buddies, Derek, we met at a party late night in Hollywood. He happened to introduce us to a few people. He saw that we were strangers there, so he was very cordial introducing us. And we said, hey, we should grab lunch sometime. He's like, yeah, that sounds good. We followed up, grabbed some lunch. Next thing you know, he's opening up his network. He was a guest on the show. All of these opportunities, if you're simply looking at it, I have to go to this event to network. You're missing out on networking opportunities left and right. Yes, networking can happen anywhere and any place and it does. You mentioned the elevator. I have one for you. So for our audience who may be new or this is back in the day, but when we first moved to New York, we had got our place in a financial district. We're moving in and we had met a guy in the elevator and he just happened to work for Axe Body Spray of all the places. And you may be thinking, well, I don't understand how this got to do with the art of charm. So we chatted in the elevator. We didn't think anything of it. And then we had seen him in the hallways periodically and said hello. And one day he had mentioned, he goes, hey, you guys have a show on Sirius. And we're like, yeah, he's like, what is this show? And we're like, oh, well, it's about social skills and dating and yeah, it's about social skills and dating. It's a lot of fun. And he's like, oh, we are trying to break into some new marketing that goes out for men and dating. Would you guys want to come by the advertising agency and talk to us about your show and perhaps we can find some angles to work? And this is just weird. So I don't even know if you could still find it on the internet, but it was this bizarre art of charm meets Axe Body Spray. But the point being, it was a great connection made. And when we were starting, we got a very healthy check from Axe for our time when we were building and we really needed it. And I remember not only holding that check, but thinking just how excited that things were working. And it's these small things like that is the fuel that fires you up to wake up and go at it again that next day. And that is a random chance elevator pitch. There you go. Literal elevator pitch and these opportunities happen to us all the time. It's changing your view and realizing that networking is not confined to events. It's not confined to putting that badge on and exchanging business cards. Networking is happening all around you. And the better suited you are at pitching yourself, talking about what you do and helping people and being generous with your time, giving value, you start to develop social capital. And social capital, as we've found, can be just as valuable as venture-backed capital because these connections, these opportunities lead to more opportunities and led to a ton of growth with the art of charm, especially since we were just bootstrapping this business. Yeah, and something else to think about with all the technology that we have, it is so prevalent in everybody's lives. And I know that it's maybe a little bit even more prevalent because we live in Los Angeles, but this technology is available for anybody, anywhere. And you don't know who's standing next to you, who's working on a record, who has a podcast, or who has got this blog, or who's a food critic. Just, and it's amazing because if you're not putting yourself out and saying hello and looking at networking as something that you can be doing on your daily routine, then you are missing out because it is these tiny, small things that can turn your whole day around so that you are waking up early on a Wednesday fired up for the day to begin because you have something new and unique to do. And of course, networking is not just confined online to LinkedIn. Networking is happening on all of these platforms. It's happening in Instagram DMs. So you need to expand your worldview on networking. You need to realize that it's not just about connecting with the top of the pyramid. And of course, it's not about keeping score. The more you develop social capital by giving attention, appreciation, acceptance to people at your meeting, strangers, the stronger those weak ties will become. And I want to end on that. You mentioned of these opportunities for you to contribute of attention, approval and acceptance on these platforms. People are plugging away so desperately to make their things happen as a musician. I know that my feet is full of them. And I have friends in all the arts. And I have, because I live in Los Angeles, there is something for me to do every night if I had the time. Point being, when you're looking, you're like, how do I get started and contributing to the what is going on around me? Start there. Your friend who's doing an open mic poetry reading, man, if you showed up, you're going to blow their mind. Your buddy who has a dance recital, your friend who has the odd DJ set that's going on. You started a meetup group. All of these things showing up is how we start to develop social capital. If you're just getting started, you're thinking, AJ, I don't have the LinkedIn resume. I don't have this massive network. How can I provide value to others? Showing up, giving that attention is the easiest way to start developing social capital. Now, next week, we're going to talk about some specific networking techniques that you could start using right away. But until then, here's your challenge for the week. We'll build on this one next Monday. Get a piece of paper and a pen and list the people you want to have in your network. The important part here is that you're specific. We want you to come up with a persona or an avatar of who you're looking to have in your network. If instead, a certain person pops into your head, then turn that into a more generalized avatar. What is that person's personality, interests, etc. like? Think of how you would describe that person to someone who doesn't know him or her. And let us know who's in your list. We love hearing from you. You can send your thoughts and questions over to thearticharm.com slash questions or you can always email us questions at thearticharm. All right, could you do us in the entire articharm team a large favor? Could you go over to iTunes, give us some value, rate our podcast, give us a review. It would really mean the world to us and it helps other people like you find us. Now, if you've loved this show, you're loving the tools that we're getting on the podcast but you want to learn how to implement them and get real world experience, then check out our week long boot camp at thearticharm. We host you here in LA. Johnny and I work together to polish those social skills to help you build your social capital and grow your network. The Articharm podcast is produced by Michael Harold and engineered by Sam Jay and Bradley Denham at Cast Media Studios in sunny downtown Hollywood. Well, until next week, I'm Johnny. And I'm AJ, have a good one.