 The next item of business is a member's business debate on motion 5 911 in the name of Emma Roddick on mental health stigma in the workplace. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put and I would ask those members who would wish to speak in the debate to please press the request to speak buttons. I call on Emma Roddick to open the debate up to seven minutes. Thank you very much. I want to first thank all those who supported my motion. It means a lot to me that there are signatures from every party to feel supported in my own workplace, a workplace which can often feel like the wrong place to have any sort of perceived weakness and where my disability is frequently used as an adjective by some to describe things that they don't like. I am the first MSP to be elected with a known personality disorder and I have my problems with that term but it is important to me to have a part in making things better for others who suffer not just the same symptoms but the same judgment and stigma that comes with that diagnosis. When I read a report by Centerd, a mental health organisation in my own region, which referenced CME's recent Scottish mental illness stigma study, I knew that I had to share it with the Parliament. When around half of people surveyed still believed that someone would keep a mental illness to themselves at work for fear of being passed over for promotion, bullied or even fired, it should be clear to everyone that there is still a huge problem to overcome. Centerd's report is well worth the read and they have since I lodged this motion published even more research into the experience of young people in the Highlands. It is particularly important to highlight that in terms of stigma they have recommended more qualitative research to better understand where we are now, particularly on how it is affecting women and minority groups differently. I hope that the minister will be able to specifically respond to that ask in his reply to the debate. I have now met over 30 organisations that work in mental health during my time as an MSP. This summer I went to Port Tree to spend some time with service users at Sky and Lechals mental health association, sitting for a couple of hours and talking about what the organisation meant to them. I remember in particular one common theme, why they loved coming to spend time there. It is like a family, one said, but without the judgment. Most were not looking for specialist service, they just needed a place where they could be themselves free of stigma. Another organisation that works closely in my region is Support in Mind Scotland, who wrote to MSPs ahead of this debate and talked about the need for training to overcome workplace stigma. One of the first things my office manager and I did last year was take SAMH's training and I am working on getting my whole office mental health trained. I want my team to be able to come to me or their manager with concerns and equally I want those who are in my role after me to feel that mental illness is not going to stand in their way. As a young woman, the assumption is already that I am not smart or strong enough to do this job and that gets worse when it is public knowledge that you have a mental illness. During the election campaign last year there were letters to editors, there were blog posts, even Reddit threads discussing how incapable I might be and listing symptoms that can be associated with my diagnosis and asking, does that sound like an MSP? I hope that it does now. I honestly believe that understanding of depression and anxiety are improving and I think that acceptance is too, but when it comes to severe and enduring illnesses like personality disorders, schizophrenia, diagnoses that people still find scary, there is also a severe and enduring belief that those of us who suffer from them are dangerous, can't work or should be avoided. We are still passed over for promotion. In the spirit of what she has just said, I am one of those people who has never publicly said that I have a mental health diagnosis, so I think that this might be a good time to say up in the MSP for the last six years and I suffer from depression and no one has noticed. I thank Gillian very much for that contribution, which I think absolutely makes the point. I know the trope of the crazy person and especially the crazy, lonely, traumatised old woman being the easy baddie in a story is a tough one to get away from. I think that it is hard to overstate the importance of language in perpetuating this attitude. In questions to the minister recently following the publication of the Suicide Prevention Strategy, I heard many colleagues talk about the importance of responsible reporting that media outlets should follow well-known, highly publicised guidelines on reporting suicide, mental health and bereavement. I then sit in meetings in this very building and listen to colleagues describe things and people as crazy, insane, madness, nutters, psychos, talk about political suicide or even wanting to slit their wrists. But language actually matters and nobody should understand that more than us. We deal in words, we use words to make and win arguments, to change laws and to convince people to wander out on a rainy Thursday and bother to vote for us. Our words have even more power than most and I don't think it's asking too much, as someone with a mental illness, that those words are chosen with care. Because when you use language irresponsibly, when you make mental illness something scary or something to laugh at, when you talk down a colleague by saying, she's crazy, she can't cope, I wouldn't want to be left alone in a room with her, you are perpetuating stigma. It's important that we as MSPs, as well as employers across all sectors, recognise the importance of responsible language. See me outline the need for people to be able to talk openly about their mental health if we're going to overcome stigma. There will be many MSPs and members of staff in this building who have mental health issues and flinch every time they hear derogatory comments from people in power. They might withdraw a bit, they might be less likely to ask for help and they might feel that they are not welcome in their own workplace, that's not okay. I am grateful to all who tweet on World Mental Health Day or suggest they want to raise awareness of mental illness and prevent suicide, but if those same people in their workplace turn around and repeat stigmatising tropes and make offensive comments about colleagues with illnesses, they are part of the problem. Every time they use a diagnosis as an insult or a punchline, they ensure that we will not succeed in tackling stigma here. I don't say this to offend or call out anyone in particular, it is a long process and I count myself along those who need to do better. I have worked over the years on replacing some of the words and phrases that I learned growing up with ones that don't relate to disability, so instead of saying, that's mental going, that's wild or that's ridiculous, so let's all of us do better and lead the way in Scotland becoming a more accepting country, which doesn't stigmatise those with mental illnesses in the workplaces. The hardest thing here is that I could talk to you for probably 12 hours about this issue, my experience, the experience of constituents, the different impact in the Highlands and Islands and rural and island communities, but I'm out of time so that will need to be it for today and I look forward to the other contributions and thank everyone who stayed behind today to contribute or listen. Thank you. I now call Karen Adam, who's joining us remotely to be followed by Sue Webber. I want to firstly thank my colleague Emma Roddick for bringing this motion to Parliament and for setting out clearly many of the issues surrounding mental health support in the workplace. I would like to say as well that it was quite apparent that I myself have a mental health condition and that is panic disorder, which is due to PTSD and that was obviously apparent in my first speech in Parliament when my legs didn't work, so I'm glad that we're talking about this today. Stigma and discrimination can have a devastating impact on the lives of people with mental health problems. It can stop people from reaching out for the right help and support and it can leave people feeling isolated and they may also find themselves being in fear of judgment and dismissal. The worry is always there that they may be thought of incapable of doing their job. I'm certainly in that bracket and, like my colleague Emma Roddick, very capable. If they disclose their personal health struggle, there's always an underlying worry there and it is a reality for many. The workplace is a huge part of our lives and as much as our home life and social interactions really need to be places of safety and security, our workplaces should too and we should take steps to improve working conditions. Over the decades we've seen improvements in the workplace for health and safety, mostly looking towards physical health and safety and this I think should also apply to mental health and safety. Providing much needed support for employees where prevention and early intervention is easy to access is crucial. Reducing stigma and raising awareness in the workplace can be transformational and education is key to addressing that. Given the speech today, I feel empowered by it and I'm grateful for that opportunity. If we create a culture from the ground up, we ensure that employees are educated and that helps to get everybody on board and that is surely vital. We cannot tackle mental health issues in the workplace without addressing bullying and ignorance and how we act with each other is vital. I've been encouraged by the outstanding work of CME Scotland and I warmly welcome their partnership involvement with vulnerable groups that do statistically experience mental ill health the most. For example, their work to tackle mental health stigma and discrimination for the LGBT community is pioneering. It's important to note the holistic approach which is needed to tackle mental health stigma. Often there are some very complex layers to it, so to cast that wider eye over those issues is vital. For example, I represent a coastal and rural constituency with unique mental health challenges being faced by farmers and fishers and their wider industries. I commend the work of the Scottish National Farmers Union and the CFIT programme, which both work with its members to protect the mental wellbeing of all those who are working in those industries. It offers much needed support and vital services. Reducing the stigma must come from within those industries themselves as they know their members the best. I also want to take a moment to recognise all those individuals who work so incredibly hard to raise awareness and provide support. Too many to mention all of them, but they do try hard to amplify the message that we are sending today. Many of whom have been impacted themselves by mental health issues, either personally or from someone that they love. If I can be obliged, Presiding Officer, I would like to mention one of my constituents, Danny Thane, from Fraserborough, who will take to the streets of Aberdeen to sleep rough for a month and rely on the kindness of strangers for food and drink to raise awareness and funds for a mental health retreat after his devastating experience of losing three close friends to suicide. In conclusion, Presiding Officer, we must surely encourage and work with employers and other stakeholders to ensure that a workplace culture allows employees to prioritise their own mental health and wellbeing without fear of stigma. I am proud that, in Scotland, we are moving towards a fundamental progressive shift to a human rights-based policy approach, where being much closer to complying with international human rights standards will address many of the issues that were raised in the motion. Of course, that alone will not help. We need that foundational cultural change as a priority, and it begins with all of us. Thank you, Ms Adam. I now call Sue Webber, to be followed by Kara Mawkin. Are there any four minutes, please, Ms Webber? Thank you, Presiding Officer. Mental health stigma in the workplace is a very important issue, and I would like to thank Emma Roddick for bringing it to the chamber today and for her very personal, empowered and heartfelt contribution. Thank you. We all know that Covid-19 pandemic has had a very negative impact on the population's mental health, and while that has raised public awareness and increased conversations taking place about mental illness, we are still a long way from eradicating the stigma that surrounds it. That can particularly be true in the workplace, where it is still common for employees to experience discriminating and unfair treatment, often because of pre-existing attitudes towards mental health conditions. Unfortunately, the stigma and the fear of judgment often prevent employees from disclosing their mental illness or from seeking help. Emma's motion highlights a report published by Centred, a mental health charity in the Highlands, which showed that around half of people believe that someone would not disclose a mental illness at work for fear of the adverse effects for their employment. Support in mind believes that mental health training is a key element to establishing a flourishing workplace, and training staff in mental health can help to break down stigma and discrimination and build awareness. They deliver the Rural Connections project, which aims to improve mental health and wellbeing and reduce mental health stigma throughout rural Scotland by providing in introductory mental health awareness and training. Following that training, 87 per cent of participants have reported that they feel more confident to talk about mental health with their staff or colleagues. That evidence highlights how mental health training is invaluable to reduce stigma in the workplace by increasing people's knowledge and breaking stereotypes. It can be difficult for employers to put themselves in the shoes of those suffering from mental health issues. Knowing what to say and what to do and what not to say and not to do is key. I know that that is only too well. On reflection, I know that when I managed a large group of remote workers in a previous life, I had team members who were struggling with issues that I could have handled better. That was almost 20 years ago, and much has changed since then in terms of awareness, HR policies and training and awareness for leaders. Following what I could call a mental health crisis of my own, it gave me the empathy and understanding of the issues, the challenges, the fear and the anxiety that comes from disclosing that you are struggling at work. I was fortunate that help was available through our employee assistance programme, and after a short period of absence from work, I came back on phased return. The support from colleagues and customers surprised me, and I can still recall how I felt coming back to work. As I said, I was fortunate. Understanding and empathy goes a long way to reduce stigma. It is also important to highlight statistics that show how poor mental health in the workplace can impact our economy. Almost 13 per cent of sickness absin days in the UK can be attributed to mental health conditions. It can cost Scotland's economy £8.8 billion a year. Reducing the stigma is an important strategy for supporting people with poor mental health to stay in and return to the workforce. Changing our workforce culture plays a huge part in that. I do not believe that anyone can disagree that the stigma surrounding mental health issues is both wrong and unfair. As we have heard today, and we will no doubt hear more, more work needs to be done by employers, public health agencies and the Scottish Government to tackle the stigma, too. However, it starts with each and every one of us taking a leadership role in doing so. I, too, would welcome the issues that are being addressed in the new Scottish Government mental health strategy. I thank Emma Roddick for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I hope that the member knows that I greatly admire her honesty about the issue, and I admire the way in which she champions the issue. Although we may have some political differences, I find her contributions to the chamber to be absolutely excellent, and I know from many people that she works very hard right across her constituency. It would be welcomed in the future if the Government perhaps could put some time in their own debating time into mental health debates. I think that that would show the commitment of the Government to improving mental health services in Scotland. I do not think that the minister will be surprised if I add that scrutiny of services is key to the way in which we improve them. Perhaps the minister could come back to that in his closing remarks. I believe that there are a few more important things than the mental health and wellbeing of the population. There are a few more important places to remove the stigma surrounding mental health difficulties and discussions surrounding them than in the workplace. We spend so much of our time in the workplace, and we should feel safe, secure and able to open up if we require to. That is why it is important that we listen to the words of some of the organisations that have done excellent research. CME, as mentioned in the motion, as well as the Royal College of Psychiatrists and Eunice in the Trade Union, have consistently called on greater action to take mental health matters and to take mental health matters seriously into the workplace. The economic impact and, in general, the impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic are well known, but the impacts on the mental health of the Scottish population perhaps are not always what comes to the front. Sam H did an excellent report, and he reported that, during the pandemic—I quote—people reported feeling like a burden and anxious about adding to the pressures of the health service by asking for help and support. That is very significant that you would think that mental health was something that you should not have approached health services. Even though we were putting out that message that health services were open, is not it sad that people felt that mental health was not something that we should come forward with? We have to remove the stigma. Struggling with mental health does not make an individual a burden, but our reluctance to talk about mental health in the workplace and in wider society shows how much further we have to go and highlights how badly we are at letting people down, our own colleagues who desperately need to talk at times, but to feel that, in the workplace, it is uncomfortable or inappropriate is not good enough. Moreover, we must also look at the pressures on our own mental health workforce here in Scotland that the Government may have responsibility to. I quote from Unison in the Scottish Borders. It has called on the Scottish Government to deliver a staffing strategy that will alleviate at least some of the significant pressures that are facing our health and social care workforce on a daily basis, which undoubtedly will impact negatively on the mental health of those workers. It is important that we talk about the workforces that we manage. Yesterday marked a historic moment as nurses in every health board across Scotland, including more than 92 per cent of those RCN members who voted in my area of NHS Ayrshire and Arn supported strike action. We know that a lot of what the workforce is talking about is the pressures in the workplace. This is a decision taken by an NHS workforce who, for years, have been understaffed, resourced, paid and valued, and have now said loudly and clearly that the pressures of working in the NHS at this moment in time, including the pressures on their own mental health, and that has been well reported, are too great for the pay terms and conditions that they receive from the Government. The RCN, the wider trade union movement and those workers have my full support in this, and I hope that they do have from other members in the chamber here today. I want to quote from the Royal College of Psychiatrists who said that they gave us a briefing and that they believe that mental health should really be treated as highly as winter pressures in the NHS. This is how important it is. In concluding, we must remove stigma, and I thank him for bringing this debate to the chamber again. I, too, would like to thank Emma Roddick for bringing this important debate to Parliament, and I agree wholeheartedly with the points that she raised in her speech. Her honesty never fails to inspire me. I do not have a mental health diagnosis, but as a young-ish woman who has a disability and is faced language in this job that attempted to rubbish my impairment, I have a lot of empathy with the experience that Emma Roddick outlined. We cannot underestimate the power our own actions have on others' ability to engage in a safe and sustainable way, and Emma Roddick's points around language should be taken on board by us all. According to Seamy Scotland, 56 per cent of people with a mental health issue have experienced stigma and discrimination. A Scottish mental illness stigma study published in September 2022 reported that 77 per cent of survey respondents felt that they had been unfairly treated at work due to mental health stigma. That clearly shows that, while understanding of mental health issues is increasing, people are still being treated unfairly in their place of work. While employers may make commitments to being inclusive, that does not always result in better experiences for employees. A 2022 mental illness stigma study conducted by the Mental Health Foundation Scotland, Seamy and others, revealed that although employers claimed to be inclusive or had national accreditation, some respondents described it as a box ticking exercise. Commitments mean nothing if they are not followed through in practice and a workplace culture where people are being penalised for having mental health issues and where many are too afraid to speak about their diagnosis clearly persists. Some respondents in the study spoke about being forced out of employment or being treated differently after taking sickness leave. It is shocking that, in 2022, people are still being forced out of work due to mental health issues. Clearly, there is still much more work to be done around ensuring that employers understand and, most importantly, carry out their responsibilities to employees who experience mental health issues. As the motion states, people with certain mental health conditions are more likely to experience discrimination. According to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, employment rates among people with more common mental health conditions are around 60 per cent, while the rate of people with schizophrenia employment is around 10 per cent. It is not enough to raise awareness of workplace stress, anxiety and depression, although it is extremely important that we continue that work. We also need to improve understanding of mental health conditions such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and personality disorders. One respondent to the Seamy study spoke of failing a workplace medical for a teaching role due to her bipolar disorder diagnosis. Her would-be employers quoted the Glasgow-Binlory tragedy as their rationale, implying that her condition made her dangerous. That the employer felt justified in denying the respondent employment due to her diagnosis shows a complete lack of understanding of the rights of people with mental health conditions and how discrimination works. How are people supposed to feel comfortable revealing mental health issues or conditions when they know that it could result in a loss of employment, workplace, discrimination, loss of wages and so on? The study's recommendations are clear. Improved resourcing, prioritisation, knowledge, awareness and understanding lie at the heart of respondent's views on how to achieve change. It calls for dedicated training in specific settings such as workplace, as well as accountability for individuals or organisations that perpetuate stigma and discrimination. We need to create a culture where employers are informed, understanding and responsible, where inclusion is not seen as a box-taking exercise but as an integral part of an employer's responsibility to their employees. Crucially, we need to ensure bad practice is identified and addressed and training is delivered where necessary. I wholeheartedly agree with the wording of the motion. More work needs to be done by employers, public health agencies and government to tackle mental health stigma, and I want to thank everyone for contributing their own experience to this debate. It's never easy to do, but it is brave and itself is helping to reduce stigma. I now call Audrey Nicol to be followed by Graeme Simpson, who will be the last speaker in the open debate. I want to congratulate my colleague Emma Roddick for bringing this debate forward. I thank her for raising the profile of such an important issue. On 7 July 1988, I was a young officer looking forward to a long weekend of duty, when I learned of the horror of the night before the Piper Alpha oil platform disaster. A phone call followed to recall me to duty, and within a couple of hours I was deployed along with colleagues to Aberdeen airport to await the arrival of the first of the personnel lost in the explosion and who had been recovered in the early stages of the emergency response. Our duties took us into the environment where they had been taken to await their final journey back to their loved ones. I put on my oversized white paper suit, my disposable gloves. I was given a clipboard and deployed into the area. I took a deep breath. The sense of dread and emotion was overwhelming, but I had to be brave. I just had to be brave. Nothing prepared me for what was to come, and no one prepared me for what was to come in the days ahead. I considered myself a strong, resilient woman, however the psychological trauma for many myself included, and the stigma associated with seeking help was profound, but it was of its day. I was lucky that I was able to access specialist support from an eminent psychiatrist whose pioneering work on PTSD in the police populations at that time was in its early stages. Since then, policing research has consistently shown that those most impacted by poor mental health are less likely to receive services and that stigma and attitudes about treatment are factors in that. Recently, the criminal justice committee has been considering police mental wellbeing in Scotland, and we have taken evidence from stakeholders and police officers. We have heard about the challenges and organisational factors that officers face, long hours, workload and organisational culture, and that the removal of stigma often relies on the values and attitudes of individual supervisors. We have heard of the slow burn of deteriorating mental health and the failure of supervisors to recognise change and act on it, helping officers to access the right support at the right time. The lack of clear pathways into specialist care was also concerning. However, we also heard very positive experiences, a supportive culture tackling attitudes and stigma in one policing division, and informal sessions run to offer officers a space to talk about their mental health. Police Scotland is working incredibly hard to respond to mental wellbeing within that tackling stigma and the negative attitudes and beliefs about those with mental illness. It has strong partnerships with many organisations working to tackle mental health stigma, including SAMH, CME and many more, but there is much to do. The committee has now written to Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority to highlight our findings and suggest follow-up work, particularly around training and robust data collection. We are keen to support the work required to improve awareness, create pathways to support and address stigma in the workplace that still impacts so many and can ultimately see people leave the career that they love. I am determined to continue that work and to support tangible progress with tackling stigma sitting at the heart of our efforts. I thank Emma Roddick for providing me with the opportunity to contribute today, and I wish her well in her own efforts to eliminate workplace stigma once and for all. Thank you very much. I also thank Emma Roddick for bringing this debate to the chamber and for her powerful words earlier, and indeed those of other members. Deputy Presiding Officer, over the past few years, I have been visiting our ladies' high school in Motherwell and talking on various tricky subjects to their higher politics students. A few years ago, I set them a challenge to write a speech for me, which they did and which I delivered here, about bereavement services. Today, my speech has been written by higher politics student Eliza Mohamed, who attends Taylor High but who joins the class at our ladies. I thank her for doing that, and I thank her for coming along today to listen to it. There she is, our embarrasser. Anxiety disorders are the most common and pervasive mental disorders, and that is why this debate is so important. The CME Scotland's CME in Work scheme four-stage programme helps employers to improve cultures, policies and practices relating to mental health. CME in Work can save money for employers and improve the working lives of every one of their employees. The national programme to eliminate mental health stigma and discrimination has been awarded £5 million of Scottish Government funding for five years. The continuing investment in CME, which has been announced alongside the launch of their new strategy, called With Fairness in Mind, will allow CME to carry on their important work as part of the wider national response to the mental health impact of the Covid-19 pandemic. Wendy Halliday, who is CME's director, said that stigma and discrimination can have a devastating impact on the lives of people with mental health problems. It can stop people from getting the right help, support and it can cause people to lose their jobs. It can leave people isolated and for young people they can find themselves being judged and dismissed when trying to reach out. She goes on. That is why the launch of the new five-year strategy and the continued investment in the CME programme from the Scottish Government are so important. There must be this ongoing commitment to ending the deep-rooted stigma that exists in Scottish society, especially in workplaces, education, health and communities. She is right. CME want to see a change in the way support and treatment for mental health is thought about. They believe that tackling stigma and discrimination and addressing the barriers they create is essential to any action to improve mental health. They are right about that because the figures are stark. 70% of people polled believe that people with mental health conditions experience stigma and discrimination in their lives and workplaces. Those living in rural and remote areas can feel particularly isolated and that can contribute to anxiety and depression. According to the results from a 2020 national survey on drug use and health, approximately 7.7 million of non-metropolitan adults reported having any mental illness, accounting for 20.5% of non-metropolitan adults. In addition, 1.8 million or 4.8% of adults in those areas reported having serious thoughts of suicide annually. Those are quite frightening figures. Half of the people in problem debt have a mental health problem and there are several ways that the rising cost of living can affect people's health. Being unable to afford sufficient food leaves people malnourished. Being unable to keep a home warm leaves people at risk of developing diseases and more importantly affecting their mental health. Almost 40% of people with a mental health problem say that their financial situation worsens their mental health problems. It becomes a vicious circle demonstrating that more work needs to be done by employers, public health agencies and government to tackle mental health stigma and those issues must be addressed in any government mental health strategy. Thank you once again, Eliza. Thank you Mr Simpson and I now call on Minister Kevin Stewart to respond to the debate after seven minutes. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Today's debate has been thoughtful, personal and empathetic and I think that these kind of debates show Parliament at its very best. I'd very much like to thank Emma Roddick for raising awareness of this important issue in Parliament and I do not think that anyone out there could say that you are not smart enough or strong enough to be in this chamber. I think that we all have a duty to show people out there that all of us, all of us can come here, all of us can contribute no matter who or what we are. I should also say to Ms Roddick, Presiding Officer, and I'm going to deviate ever so slightly. As we have been having this debate today, we are obviously being watched by many and somebody has sent me a message saying, it's great that we're having the debate around about discrimination and stigma in mental health but we also need to do better in tackling stigma and discrimination in the workplace for those who have autism on our neurodiverse and that's maybe a debate for another day but I think that we are here today doing the right thing by talking about these issues and my plaudits to those folks who have told us about the issues that they have faced, to Gillian Martin, to Karen Adam, to Sue Webber, to Emma Roddick herself and to Audrey Nicol, and three of us from Aberdeen are at the front here. Whenever we hear about Piper Alpha, it gives us goosebumps. I have to say that people that I know who should have been helped to a greater extent after that tragedy were not and trauma remained with many folk for a long time, so we must do better. During my tenure as Minister for Mental Well-being and Social Care, I have had the great privilege of speaking with many people with lived experience of mental health and wellbeing challenges and know firsthand the detrimental impact that stigma and discrimination can have on people's lives, whether that's in relationships, employment, healthcare settings or other areas of life. It can also make it much harder for them to seek support when they need it most, but when we remove those barriers, people can better access services and support, feel valued, included and respected. Tackling stigma and discrimination around mental health remains a key priority for this Government. That's why last year, as others have said, we announced £5 million of funding for CME over five years. That shows the value that we place on CME and the important work that it does to tackle stigma in workplaces and communities right across our country. Evidence shows that over the pandemic there has been a shift in how society discusses mental health. A poll of 1,000 people in Scotland in August by CME and census-wide found a 60 percentage point increase in the proportion of people who say that they would have the confidence to start a conversation with someone about their mental health. That's up from 24 per cent to 84 per cent today. Almost eight in 10 of those questions agreed that they would have the confidence to talk about their own mental health today, and 96 per cent of people said that they would be willing to support someone who was struggling with their mental health. However, although it's positive that people are talking more openly, this very debate proves that discrimination and stigma have not gone away. As noted by the Royal College of Psychiatrists and Centres Research, it's clear that stigma can be particularly challenging for those with mental health conditions. That's why I'm pleased that CME broke new ground in developing the recent Scottish mental illness stigma survey, which was published in September. The survey, sadly, highlights how people with severe mental illness have been impacted in so many aspects of their lives, from relationships to employment and many areas beyond. However, I thank the minister for taking the intervention. As we've heard today, the workplace can often be a major contributor to poor mental health, particularly due to low pay, insecure work and poor working conditions. At STUC Congress this year, the union of shop, distributive and allied workers, USDOR, highlighted how strong collective bargaining rights are crucial to better terms and conditions and better support for mental health at work. Does the minister agree that trade union recognition and collective bargaining should be promoted through the Scottish Government's fair work approach to improve workplace mental health support? I declare an interest as a member of unison before I continue, Presiding Officer. The work that I'm doing on national care service shows the importance that there is in sexual bargaining. I've been a trade unionist for many a year, and I encourage people to join unions. Fair work is at the heart of resolving some of the issues that we're discussing today. Through our refreshed fair work action plan, which will be published this year, we want to ensure that those facing barriers to employment can access the support that they need. In August this year, I visited WGM Engineering in Livingston, where we discussed the importance of challenging stigma in the workplace, and I had the opportunity to hear about their approach to supporting good mental health and wellbeing at work. We know that businesses are at different stages in developing mental health strategies in their workplaces, and that is why we are working to ensure that employers have the support that they need to promote good practice. This year, together with Public Health Scotland, business organisations, trade unions and mental health charities, the Government launched a digital platform to signpost a range of free mental health and wellbeing resources for employers of all sizes across a range of sectors. That work complements the CME and work portal and programme for employers, and I encourage all members to have a look and promote those tools, because they are very valuable. I have also been taught today about the stigma that exists, the discrimination that exists in certain sectors and in certain communities, and we must do more there. I will write to members about what we are doing with ethnic minority communities, women and rural communities. That is an extremely important area. We are investing heavily in community mental health and wellbeing, as members already know. We have made that investment to CME to ensure that we get that right. Presiding Officer, I want to finish on this point, because I said at the very beginning that this has been a thoughtful, personal and empathetic debate. People have told us about the challenges that they have faced, and none of us should be afraid to discuss those challenges. Once again, plaudits to those who have done that and plaudits to Emma Roddick for being so open and transparent, for bringing that debate to the chamber. Without doubt, she is smart enough and strong enough to be here. One of the politicians that I admire most is a person who many of you will not have come across. He was a councillor in the city of Aberdeen. He was an SNP councillor in the city of Aberdeen. He had previously been a Labour councillor in Grampian region. A man called Jim Kiddie, who always told his story about the challenges that he had faced with his mental health. He served on the Milan commission that looked at mental health here in Scotland. He is somebody that I look up to greatly because he was open and honest and told people as it was. I think that we should all be a bit more like that, and then we would be in a much better place, not only in workplaces, but right across our country when it comes to discussing mental health and wellbeing. That concludes the debate. I suspend this meeting until 2.30pm.