 This is SiliconANGLE's exclusive coverage of the OpenStack Summit. I'm John Furrier, joined by my co-host today, Jeff Frick. And SiliconANGLE is a place you want to go to, siliconangle.com is a reference point for tech innovation. Go there, emerging technology as well as the enterprise. Got it all covered. Go to wikibon.org for free research and the wikibon team is here. David Floyd is in the analyst meetings. We expect to hear from him shortly when he comes out of the analyst meeting. Apparently, a lot of great presentations from end users and implementations and the theme here at OpenStack is all about code, bringing code to the table, deployments, real production work. And our next guest is one of our favorites. She's also was a contributor, is still a contributor at SiliconANGLE.com. Now it works for Red Hat. Diane Mueller, welcome to the Cube. Well, thank you very much for having me here, Jeff and John. It's a pleasure to be here, as always. Great to have you. You've written some really good posts as a contributor to SiliconANGLE. And you're the past girl, we say, right? You write a lot about platform as a service and now you're at Red Hat. So, I see Red Hat has been a leader in many different areas, but also participating heavily in the cloud as well as big data as well. There's a lot of stuff going on, a lot of announcements, but we want to just talk shop here. So give the quick commercial on Red Hat, what's happening with Red Hat and one of the key cloud initiatives that they got going on. So we're here at OpenStack and it's amazing because there are so many Red Hatters here and you'll see the Red Fedors and I didn't actually get one yet because it's only been about 30 days that I've been on the Red Hat team so eventually I'll get a Red Hat. Yeah, you're working your way up. I'm working my way up the food chain there, from the straw to a real Red Fedora. But OpenStack is a really, really near and dear to our hearts now at Red Hat and we're probably, I think right now it'll be announced that we're the number one contributors to the OpenStack initiative and we've got people doing everything from heat to storage to compute and all that wonderful stuff and so at the infrastructure as a service layer, Red Hat is really going full-tilt boogie, putting a focus on what we call RDO, I think I have a logo here, the Red Hat distribution of OpenStack and we have a new release of that that's out now. As well as at the platform as a service layer you may or may not have heard of OpenShift. We have an open source project that feeds upstream OpenShift online and OpenShift enterprise products but what I really focus on is the origin which is the origin of all things, is the open source project that is a platform as a service, the next generation of platform as a service and as you noticed I'm a bit of a pause girl, I'm either considered a pause queen or a posicist, I'm not sure which but as a long time developer one of the things that's really brought the joy back into being a programmer again and made me want to come back and develop iPhone apps and all kinds of fun stuff is that platform as a service has made it really ridiculously easy to get my applications out there. Let's talk about, let's talk shop now about this because you're a geek girl and we love to, you post on, go to SiliconANGLE and search for dance posts, they're awesome but everyone knows SaaS, software is a service so you know there's a lot of SaaS mindset out there, you see things like Salesforce.com, we heard Josh from Piston Cloud talk about anything that runs on the app is out in the cloud but there's two other aspects that Amazon is absolutely disrupting, that's infrastructure as a service and platform as a service. Talk about what's the distinction between the two and why are they so important and what's fitting into what's buckets. So if you think about what infrastructure as a service is, that's the elastic compute layer, that's the layer of all the computing resources, the memory, the storage, where you put your data, all the instances that get spun up, so that takes care of all of the computing resources but platform as a service on top of that is the containers in which your applications run. And so what we generally see are the frameworks whether they're Python ones like Django or Flask or Bottle plus all the web servers, Nginx or Apache or whatever it is, all the services and frameworks and languages are made available to you in an automated way so if you're an applications developer like I am, when I go and decide I'm going to write a PHP program or a Python program, the language gets deployed, all the packages and dependencies are taken care of, the frameworks that I want to use are managed and all the insecure SE Linux if you're using OpenShift container and that ensures that the container in which my application is running, if it's on a shared host, on shared infrastructure, you can't have a noisy neighbor or can't have any privacy invaded and it shares resources as a good neighbor as well. And the platform as a service is really the architecture that manages all those containers, scales up the applications and down as they need to be and makes it so that we can all share resources on that infrastructure layer but we do it in with quotas and policies and all of the things that. The plumbing. The plumbing plus all of the things that the auditors and the compliance and the risk managers all worry about too as well as helping give IT and the people who are near and dear to my heart, the DevOps kind of folks, the control over who has access to what resources and quotas in a managed way. So it's really platform as a service is the thing that actually manages the expectations of the developers and the ops people as well and helps us get our applications up there really rapidly but not in a way that is going to eat up too much time. What is the state of the platform as a service market right now in your opinion? What's the vibe? What's it like right now? What's the sentiment? Well it's very, it's interesting because they're in the beginning there was Heroku and Engine Yard and all these public passes that really did some amazing things and they just really made platform as a service an expectation of developers. So it was really cool. But then what you started seeing is some of the privacy and control issues coming up and so there have been a number of proprietary platform as a service offerings coming up and people who are ISVs and hosts are also adding platform as a service and so you see a lot of that. But I think what's happened now is this huge shift to the open cloud and what we're seeing even in the past market is that it's the open source community-driven platform as a services projects that are actually taking off. So it's changing. It's changing because I think everybody realizes that platform as a service is a very important cog and they don't want to repeat it every single time. Nobody wants to reinvent the wheel for each organization. They want to build the open source mindset is to build on the shoulders of others. Yeah and I think that's the key actually when something is that integral to the cloud it ought to be something that all of the ecosystem folks collaborate on and make sure that the interoperability is there, that the scalability is, that it's, that it'll run on any cloud and that we don't waste time as organizations or as developers building out proprietary paths and I think what we've seen, the shift in the market I've seen in the last even 365 days has been tons of people working on and collaborating on the open source projects and if you go to, this is my only pitch, openshift.github.io, you can see- That's not a pitch, it's a URL. It's a URL. That's not a pitch. All right. It's not a pitch. Go to the URL. It's like a hashtag. Save the pitch. Go to the URL. We like that. That's good data. The other thing about openshift is on GitHub, including who's working on it. By the way, you're not a pitcher, so you're good with us. Sorry, cool. Giving a URL to information is not pitching. That's good resource. Good data. There are people, there are users. There are people, there's a new category that's just, is StarGazers. People who are watching your project so you can watch and you can see how that is just astronomically. The StarGazers are even joining in at more rapid pace as well as if you go and look at the members of who's contributing. It's well outside of just the red hat folks that open sourced the project initially. It's now people who are using our enterprise products are giving back. The people who are developers on openshift online are the public pause side of Origin. They're giving the feedback that's getting incorporated into Origin because what it is, is that open source project and as all open source, they're what feeds upstream commercial offerings. Just saying that it's really truly, I think, now an open source world in the PaaS market. If you're not working with an open source PaaS provider, then you're really reinventing the wheel in a way that you don't need to. Is more value delivered via PaaS as a development, assist or runtime? Assuming you're after running in a cloud and all your good neighbor comments because we all like good neighbors. Good neighbors are good things. But firewalls and fences are very good things. I think Robert Frost or somebody like that said the thing about a good fence is Mark Twain. Good neighbors are good fences. Good neighbors need good fences and that's really where the security issues come in and when you're choosing to PaaS. What PaaS does is there's sort of three audiences. There are the business reasons for having it because you want to manage your resources, you want to get the best value in ROI on your actual resources. There are the IT folks and the ops folks who are trying to manage all these demands for people to build up and spin up stacks and PaaS automates all of that. And then there's the developers. People like me that just want to get the resources. All the innovations in the developer community right now. And they need infrastructure, they need PaaS. Yeah, and nobody wants to wait six months for someone to spin up a stack and then find out that it's got the wrong version of Apache Tomcat or it's got an earlier version of Python 2.7 and I needed 3.3. All of that should be self-service. All of that should be on demand. Isn't that the main benefit of OpenStack? I mean basically you can build faster. Well I think you said OpenStack so I'll just correct you a little bit. It's the main benefit of PaaS. And one of the things that I'm really clear about is that just building a lot of pilot projects for cloud initiatives within inside enterprises will just spend all of their planning time figuring out how to deploy OpenStack or CloudStack, I said CloudStack at the OpenStack summit, or whatever the infrastructure layer is. And they forget to add PaaS. I mean we had Randy Bias basically said OpenStack wins. CloudStack is, you know, really. You choose, I don't care because my PaaS runs on it. Right, so for me it really, it doesn't matter. There might be some use cases too, right? There are some interesting. Well at 4.30 today I'm going to be demonstrating deploying OpenShift on OpenStack in the ecosystem one using Heat, which is this really cool new orchestration set of tools that have come out for OpenStack. And I think that's, it's interesting how the OpenStack stuff works really nicely with the OpenShift and how quickly we've been able to take these new innovations coming out of the OpenStack world. Tell us about some of the stories that you can share, and this has to be red hat related. It can be where you've seen some real good examples of use cases that are shining moments in the industry right now, using Cloud, using PaaS that you can point to as a leading indicator of this big mega trend. So I think, I mean in a lot of ways I'm a mobile app developer, so I think the mobile and what's being called back end as a service, the world's worst acronym. We have to keep a tally board. That is the worst one. Conscious of images, bad images. I think one of the things that the hidden secrets out there is that platform as a service and cloud computing has really helped, and Apple, creating the Apple Store, I'll say, has really helped drive the plethora, the variety of easy to deploy and build mobile applications. I think that's one of the key things that you've seen. It's not just games and things like that, but really core applications that we are able to really quickly get out because we don't have to wait for the services, the stacks, and so people can come with great new innovations. My favorite one right now is, and it's got a little bit of a scalability issue, but untapped. And if you go to untapped, if you're a craft beer drinker, and if you're here in Portland, Oregon right now, and you're going around, go to untapped and download their iOS app, or their Android app, and you can track all of your beer drinking habits here in Portland, and we can see where you've been. But it's little things like that that would never have happened if cloud hadn't. And it's just- Creativities unleashed. And what I say is that platform as a service has really made development fun again. It's like, when I had to go out and build a request to stack be built for me, or I couldn't just give my credit card to AWS and run my application when I wanted to, I had to manage all of that. I didn't want to do that anymore. You know? Yeah, it's a lot of mundane, you know, assholes. But the general surgeon's warning here, this is a label, you should know what's going on on your cloud, all right? And that's why an open source cloud is a good cloud. And the pause, you know, you'll get into some issues like if you don't pay attention to what's actually happening on your pause, or on your iOS level, and you just trust that the service provider is doing all the right things. You get into situations like RAP Genius and Heroku and the blaming war of who's responsible for that. If you're a developer, you're still responsible for knowing what's running under the hood. Just because it's easy to deploy, doesn't mean you shouldn't know what's going on. Don't ignore that, because I think that's, for a lot of startups, we get into this fun mode where, oh, let's deploy this app, or let's deploy that app, or let's just do it. And I think one of the backfires of the MVP lean ops, lean development world, is that people just did get their first app out there without really understanding what was underneath. And I think one of the things about community-driven efforts. Is agile not viable and mobile? Oh, it's definitely viable, but you really, I mean, it's definitely, you should. You still should do a rapid application development, do multiple literations, all that's goodness. But what I'm saying is you shouldn't do it blindly. And just because a pass is there, doesn't mean you shouldn't understand what resources it's using, what resources you're using, what the web servers are. What I don't like doing is configuring all that damn stuff. I just want it to work. Dan, great to have you on theCUBE and you're a contributor at SiliconANGLE. Now at Red Hat, doing some great things over there. Final question is, what are you working on now, both at Red Hat and personally, what are you following and writing about? So, right now, the bugaboo that I'm working on is security. So, I think one of the things that I've come to realize that in order to be good neighbors, you have to have good security. And what we're doing with SE Linux in order to secure Platform as a Service has been really my hot topic and my hot button because the thing called LXE containerization is just not enough and that's what I think a lot of the other Platform as a Service are using. And so what we're really trying to do is educate people about what SE Linux really is and how it works. And so that's what I'm focusing on these days as well as getting more eyeballs on the Origin project. Great to have you on theCUBE. Finally, talking shop. Great to have you contributing SiliconANGLE. Congratulations at Red Hat. Red Hat's doing some great things. A lot of good feedback on what's happening with Red Hat and the field from CIOs I talked to. It's all coming around to benefit you guys, all that work you did. Congratulations to the team at Red Hat. And thanks for coming on theCUBE. Great to talk shop. Dan, the geek girl, the past girl. We want to call yourselves a Python DJ at Python DJ. There you go. As a Twitter handle. Great to have you on. We love developers as developer world. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back after our short break. All right, thank you very much.