 I think it's the end of the day and so a lot of us want to go and hit the bars but me too so I'll try to see how well we can do this presentation so you enjoy the bar and not drink in distress. So my name is Mohan, I'm the CTO of Chain Yard. We are a pretty old blockchain company at almost seven years and my colleague here Gijo and what we will talk today is I got a I got plenty of slides so I'm going to try and see how I can do it effectively but this particular thing that I'm sharing with you is not theory we actually worked with a real estate property company in Kansas and essentially the whole goal was to see what is the best strategy in order for us to operationalize it but it's so what what we did is essentially work with them look at the details we looked at all the choices of blockchains that are effective and so I want to share my experience here of doing it so there's no right answer or wrong answer because we are constantly going to evaluate how we are constantly evaluate how our solution has been designed and improve upon it so we are still working with the client and he's still working with his legal and so on so that's the experience I want to share with you all I hope you enjoy so moving forward so there are a lot of things that we will go through this particular thing is why blockchain for real estate property management rentals and then how was it what is the use case about the basic concepts that we need to know and how did we solution this now if you really look at the real estate portfolio of opportunities you know there are plenty of things that blockchain can be very useful for like titles property records in North Carolina there's a law that at least many states may have this law that you have to have land records for at least a hundred years essentially whether it was used for trash dumps or there was an oil spill or what happened then there are others like you know a fractional ownership is taking a lot of traction because people want to invest in real estate and so they how is the best way for us to invest in a real estate property that is distributed stake which means you don't own the property but you have a stake so that you can earn returns and mortgages building supply chain and reinvestment but all these blockchain use cases may not be very business friendly the business model may not work because you may not make money they sound very good on paper but one use case that we did take with this particular client who came to us with that is about how to manage rentals so why why blockchain for the rental property market is there are you know rather than talk about the regular advantages of using a blockchain the real advantages for this particular use case are customization so this particular rental you know property management company they wanted a package and they wanted to package their assets into district you know into various opportunities for investment so they can customize it rather than a right or a standard way of real estate investment the second is transparency you can actually see the documents that are associated with the property whether it is investment worth it what are the returns on rentals and so on and so forth so there's full transparency third is liquidity data sharing liquidity because you can try to tokenize it and then tokens can be easily swapped for you know fiat currency or for other tokens so liquidity is pretty efficient in this data sharing then tokenization and staking you know essentially you can stake it into liquidity pools so the tokens that are there one can stake into liquidity pools and earn you know what do you call dividends so you can earn returns on staking or even yield farming then there is agility because traditional real estate investment it's very difficult for one to get out of the market because the turnaround time or the cycle time is much more than record keeping so you got an accurate record of the property the maintenance records the history of what do you call its valuation going up and down in the market and lastly collaboration which is an opportunity when people are when builders are turning around homes and you know remodeling it redoing it and so on so you have collaboration between builders the contract laborers the property owner and so on and so forth so there are many different advantages of white blockchain and real estate now the use case that we are going to talk about is this is an existing company that is based in Kansas so what they want they do a lot of real estate rentals so one of the issues that they face is like for every property they had to go to the bank and then they had to get a loan and for which there is credit checks and so on and so buying property becomes a headache because every time their credit checks and then the ability for the bank to give them a loan to buy the next property and the next property so what they felt is that tokenization or fractional stake in the properties that they want to acquire might be a better approach if they allow investors like all of us the small investor then probably there's an opportunity for us to invest and provide liquidity in acquiring new property so our goal was to see whether we can leverage what do you call tokenization DeFi and NFTs as part of the solution which is the client's interest so the requirements that were very clear to us was that we don't want to do KYC on this but we want to deal with accredited investors only but accreditation or KYC would be done outside our experiment here then buy and sell stake with minimum latency so they want to invest in the property but if the property is not doing well they want to get out of that market that rental market so how quickly can you do that compliance with security reporting and tax laws so you do not want to you want to follow the existing process so for example they have to report they have to have a report to the IRS or they want to report on taxes or they want to report on how the investments are doing so all that should follow the traditional process so what we want to do is to put a bubble around the solution so anything inside the bubble will work with tokens NFTs and the process of liquidity pools anything outside would follow a traditional process you know which means paper reporting using their traditional systems heart wallets because they want to easily do transactions meaning like I have tokens for a particular property I want to swap it for tokens of another property or with fiat currency I should be able to do that with minimum latency and the last one last is like coexist with existing investors because there are senior investors who are used to traditional processes so everyone does not want to follow the tokenization model so how can you have both the legacy model as well as the new tokenized model work together so those were constraints provided to us so if you look at so essentially our proof of concept and as well as our strategy was what is the business model how does this company make money doing this you know is blockchain really essential so we have to look at the business model we wanted to look at the uh technology architecture whether we should use a public blockchain or a private blockchain whether we should use Binance Smart Chain or whether we use Ethereum we wanted to also look at the tools that the liquidity pool options that are available then what is the implementation plan so we did a strategy study and as part of the strategy we also wanted to look at the ability to leverage you know the the DeFi contracts that are already available so if you really look at PancakeSwap or you know any other you know swapping Uniswap they provide you with the contracts which are not changeable so what are the opportunities for us to extend contracts that are out of the box and yet and meet the solution goals so some of the concepts that we need to be familiar with as part of the solution I'm assuming that many of you are familiar with so many different talks going on here but things like what is an asset an asset is anything of value you know a property like a house or a car the value of that property can go up or down so sometimes you may lose out on the value of that asset or sometimes the asset may gain value so what are assets and then there are fungible assets which means like assets that can be swapped like for like so one ten dollar bill is the same as ten one dollar bills so those are all fungible assets then you are familiar with what is blockchain you know what is gas because in all these solutions one has to consider gas as part of the transaction costs you do have options to choose which type of blockchain Ethereum Binance Smart Chain or any other EVM based blockchains we do know we want to know what is NFT I'm assuming NFTs are something that has been quite talked about here but non fungible tokens that means an asset if there is a token it can only be it has a unique identity and that it cannot be swapped for another token so every non fungible token has a unique identity and you cannot swap it for any so for example if I lent you my laptop I need my laptop back it's a unique laptop I cannot get another somebody else's laptop in exchange for what was borrowed from me we also know what is a token a token is a piece of data but essentially it's a piece of data you know and it contains certain information such as a token ID a token name the description of the token how much can be minted out of that on that token and then the business rules associated with that liquidity pools those who are not familiar there are liquidity pools which are nothing but automatic market makers you're familiar with NASDAQ which is an exchange these are decentralized exchanges where the market makers are automatic which means pairs of tokens can be created in a pool and we will talk more about it and finally the wallet so these are all like essential components essential concepts that we we must understand before we build solutions that are related to tokenization DeFi and NFTs so the key you know this is the analysis of the problems so the way we analyze problems is slightly different from I think every company the way they look at things so what are the organizations that will be participating in this particular solution so we have the real estate company the company that actually is is wanting to do the solution which is our client we have property LLCs and we'll talk so each property that is there in the market is managed by a separate distinct LLC model which means it's a separate entity that manages that particular property then third-party KYC a third-party company that will that will do KYC for us meaning like accredited the investor and then and then crypto exchanges are like Coinbase from where you have to buy Ethereum for paying gas or BNB for playing you know for paying gas gas and other or exchanging your tokens for your fiat dollars for USDT or other types of tokens so we need an exchange so those are all the organizations now the personas that are that are participating in this particular solution the property manager the pro each property has a manager or maybe a group of properties may have a single property manager the role of the property manager is to effectively manage that property collect rentals convert them into dividends and then issue them to the investors we have the investors they are the ones who are buying are having a stake in the property many properties one property it can be or it can be in the holding company then there is a renter who actually rents the property and pays pays what do you call the rent which is converted into earnings then you have liquidity pools and I used a pool here but a liquidity pool is is a pool where pairs of tokens are available from investors so for example I could put into this pool USDT comma some property token which means it's a pair that means anytime an investor is there equal values of both those tokens have to be dropped into the pair by the investor and then borrowers can borrow from this pool by swapping one token for the other so USDT could be swapped for a property token or a property token could be swapped back into USDT so a pool represents a pair of tokens and one to you know and investors have to always invest pairs of tokens of equal value that means if I put 10 USDTs I have to put equal and property tokens as part of the pair now swappers can just simply swap so people are typically used to going into the crypto exchanges and buying tokens and selling them right that's the traditional model by which almost I know all the crypto investors do they go to coinways buy some USDT buy some ethereum and if it goes up in price you know they sell it to make some profits but liquidity pools is the concept by which each one of us can become investors and each one of us can become borrowers so it's a good uniswap and pancake swap are all good examples of liquidity pools then transactions you know these are the transactions add liquidity into the pool or create a pool anybody can create a pool as an investor tokenization swapping one token for another registering your property redeeming your tokens buying and selling all our transaction types that will work on this and finally what are the assets that we are dealing with so we have the property which is the one that we are going to convert into that we are going to issue an NFT against we have LLC tokens and holding company tokens so now let us look at how this model will work now at any point in time I'm not making sense please feel free to stop me but let us see how this works right so the first step in all this and I try to animate this is that you have the holding company in our case it is our client what did our client do the first thing is they issued prop you know holding company tokens so look at it as a company issuing shares and I call it HE and a holding entity t1 tokens so there's all tokens you know if the holding company thinks that I want to issue one million dollars worth of tokens they will issue one million worth of HE t1 so issue entity tokens and also accredited and register investors so every investor is registered with the holding company now what I'm describing is the approach we took based on existing regulations and de-risking our solution okay so don't question me on why I did this it is really because we wanted to de-risk the holding entity as much as possible but I can give you the reasons why we did that the next step is for you know so there is a property that the holding company wants to buy right there is a property in the market they want to buy so they buy the property and then they incorporate associated with an LLC so every property that this company buys it give it incorporates a separate LLC to manage that property then what happens is they can they issue an NFT against that property now the NFT did not play a big role in our solution today but their idea was that in the future that this property could be floated in the market in the form of tokens and as the property value goes up the ownership of the property could change so that was the intent of issuing an NFT against the property then tokenize that property so now the property value let us say you know they want to issue stakes for investors right so if they want if they thought they wanted to issue a million tokens they would issue a million tokens for investors like us to just have a stake in the property so that anything that we earn out of that property can be shared among the stakers right and then essentially a property manager is associated with that property so his role is to collect you know rent and process the dividends so there are many ways in which the dividends can be processed he could collect the rent in dollars and then convert it to USDT and then give it to the investors so there are different models by which you can do this now what happens is the holding company can create a liquidity pool where US dollars into holding company tokens T1 right so that is one liquidity pool so if any of so once they create the pool what they would do is they may have a million USDT with equal an amount of T1 tokens for investors to take right so if I want to be an investor in this liquidity pool I would go into Coinbase buy some USDT with fiat currency I'm just using Coinbase as an example and then I would come here as an investor as a borrower I can borrow T1 tokens by putting in USDT you want to learn more about liquidity pools it's a good way to learn or you know so if I want to be an investor I can put equal amount of USDT and T1 tokens but I don't have T1 token so I can only be a borrower right now you can also create liquidity pools on the property so T1 comma T2 that means these tokens T1 tokens represent the holding entity and T2 represents this particular property now what is the idea is that if you wanted to invest in this property you would buy T1 tokens from here you go to this pool you drop in T1 and you buy T2 so that's that's how liquidity pools work right and why do you need the exchange because you cannot buy USDT you want to buy USDT by putting in US dollars so you need exchanges and so finally investors are here so they can invest into this property by dropping in you know they can buy T2 token their T1 tokens here and they can use the T1 tokens to invest in this property but liquidity pools are got basically two functions in each liquidity pool you can add liquidity or you can swap tokens you can swap T1 for T2 or you can swap T2 for T1 so those are the two functions you have or you can add liquidity by dropping the pair of coins of equivalent value into that pool right so what do investors do they can buy tokens any of those tokens they can add liquidity to the pool they can swap LLC tokens for fiat currency so if you want if you want to get out of this market you take all your T1 tokens put it into this pool get your USDT and you can exchange your USDT for fiat currency so investors can do those things or investors can receive dividends in their wallets so each one of these investors in this particular property have bought a certain amount of T2 tokens and so when dividends are issued they will get equal amount of those tokens you know basically if the dividends are paid in dollars they can go to coinbase and convert those dollars into USDT or they could or the corporation could also give them T1 tokens as their dividends so essentially that is the model right so the contract that we had to write in this is these are all the contracts so there is there is an investor so there are rules around investors how much they can invest so basically when you define the business model you have to be very clear what are the business rules right it's not I mean minting tokens and exchanging tokens and exchanges are all very easy to do it's it's not rocket science but the real science comes in is what are the business rules so there are business rules for investors how many tokens can they buy how long should they hold on to the tokens before they can redeem it rules of you know what is the percentage yield they will get for their investment so those are all rules so we build it in then there are holding company rules like the holding company contract essentially maintains a registry of the properties that they are buying and what tokens are they issuing you know and then they have rules on LLC you know LLC templates if you are familiar with Ethereum we use templates as part of the approach to spin up LLC contracts and then issuing holding entity tokens you know this holding company manages LLC so you have LLC manager which manages all the contracts each LLC contract it also manages LLC tokens it also manages the property template which describes what the property looks like and then the DEX consists of we used pancake swap in this particular project so pancake swap gives you the following contracts okay if you go to a unit swap unit swap has got its own contracts so you can use the pancake swap contracts to create a pair I said you can create tokens so you can create a pair of tokens t1 comma t2 to create a pool you can use pancake factory and you can use the pancake router so actually these three are the main contracts for adding creating a liquidity pool and adding liquidity into the pool so you so if you were to summarize and then obviously you have tokenization contracts you have the ERC 20 for issuing tokens like t1 and t2 you have NFT which is allowed which allows you to what do you call issue an NFT against a property that is another contract you have the token template which allows you to mint different types of tokens so I use a standard token template to mint t1 token contract t2 token contract and so on and then distribution rules so how do you distribute the dividends and how do you distribute whatever you earn out of the what do you call liquidity pools actually give you liquidity tokens based on the amount of investment you do or also you can you can earn what do you call what is known as yield farming you can take your tokens and invest in other pools and so on so there are a lot of things by which you can make more money out of the investment you've done so these are the contracts that are essentially used in our in our example and then these are all the application contracts that we have we have authentication the standard password wall the basic LLC report the investor report so I said everything has to behave as though our our model is traditional model so this works at the holding company level they print these reports for reporting purposes tax purposes for investors and so on so these are all application components nothing to do with the contracts so critical considerations when you build such a solution is smart contracts are to be resilient because you do not want to lose you know money that has been minted you want to make sure it is not stolen out of your wallet so you really have to do a good testing of your token contracts and your liquidity pool contracts the second is your business structure you've got to completely define how your business structure will look what are the business rules of the holding company and how many tokens can it issue at the holding company level and then what are the rules you know how do you create LLCs for each property what are the business rules around that what are the legal regulations around that and then how many tokens can be issued against each property what happens if the property suddenly is destroyed by an act of God or what happens if the property loses value so you are not always going to make money you might have invested in a property but that property could have lost value because of various other reasons like there was a there were some unforeseen events in that area so people do not want to rent the property so those are the rules that you have to understand and formulate around the business structure and the business rules such as if we collected x amount of rent what is the way by which it is distributed so how much of it will be you know say if I collect 100 a rent of let us say 100 then how much of it will be withheld by the holding entity how much of it is going to be withheld by the LLC how much of it goes to investors and then how much of it goes as gas fees so you got to have the complete structure of how you would distribute that and that is built into the contract then you have wallet integration it's not even you build custom tokens if you if you have metamask and you go into coinbase it is easy to look at all the standard tokens but if you have mentored your own tokens then you have to know how to integrate your wallet to the token addresses that you have mentored so wallet integration is critical and finally governance so how do you manage all these properties that are part of the holding entity you know who are all going to give you know who are the ones who make decisions on the business rules associated with this particular solution so the holding entity cannot make ad hoc what do you call rules or regulations around each property or around the whole business model it has to be collective decision making and what is that governments governance model look like so these are very critical considerations when you design the solution but the solution has got a lot of risks right when you build you know I you know everyone talks very sweetly about DeFi NFT and stuff like that but there are a lot of potential risks around that and what are those risks so one is how do you build the solution what are the key considerations when you start doing business analysis and business and the technical analysis and actually implementing the solution and then what are the potential risks so there is impermanent loss so impermanent loss refers to the to a case where let us say a liquidity pool is essentially a formula base so for example uniswap if I want to put a pair of tokens t1 and t2 the way uniswap works it's an automatic market maker which means and it works on a constant principle t1 star t2 is equal to a constant that is how liquidity pools work they are all based on formula it is not based on an external market report or a market research so if a if you put a token that is associated with the property into a liquidity pool its value is going to go up and down based on the supply and demand of each token in that pool and based on that formula you know I'm hopefully making it um making it simple but if I have two tokens t1 and t2 in a pool then the way uniswap works for example or even pancake swap as t1 star t2 is equal to a constant that is how it works so if you withdraw t1 tokens then the supply of t2 goes up and the formula then reprices the price of those tokens it is based on an algorithmic formula it is not based on market research right I mean it's not based on market input so one of the risks is you bought a property right and the liquidity pool is constantly pricing it based on a formula but the property value has gone down let us say you you put a token and the token value is 10 usd the token value is 10 usd t1 but the property value in the market has increased to 20 the liquidity pool will not reflect that and you have a loss of 10 dollars right so that is called impermanent loss so there is a risk of impermanent loss if you don't design this properly especially if you create a pool let us say usd t and ethereum usd t is always pegged to one dollar so it is not going to be volatile but ethereum is going to be so volatile that your investment sometimes you may have impermanent loss because ethereum sometimes drops drastically or sometimes increases and you have a loss of value in your investment so that is a big issue with liquidity pools and they are trying to solve that the second is fee changes so changes in the fees can always happen with depending on the blockchain that you use protocol upgrades there are new protocols that are coming in and those protocols may work differently from the way you design the solution you have security hacks people get into your wallets and then you lose your tokens so you got to build you know you got to be considered of this and unanticipated regulatory changes what if somebody says you know these tokens have to be taxed because they are really considered as real estate securities so when you model the solution you have to make sure that these critical pieces are considered and these critical risks are addressed so no so that is why you know our entire poc was to test how do we be resilient against all these considerations and these risks and everyone has to do that otherwise most of the solutions fail you know i mean i have not seen one successful project in the defi space other than borrowing and lending or insurance and stuff like that but you know the celsius case celsius was a centralized decentralized exchange and they went bankrupt they went bust because they did not securitize or collateralize their their investments for borrowers so architecture was pretty straightforward so we have web 3 application and contracts so we used initially we did benance smart chain and then we tested it on ethereum and in this case though the swapping the liquidity pool that we used was uniswap and pancake swap both are available in fact pancake swap is derived from liquidity swap from uniswap and the contracts are available publicly and you can actually program them to create your own pool and your own investment swaps you have the application api in this and then the off-chain database to have things like property records you know investors want to see what the property is where is it located how much will it give me in terms of rent and so on and so forth so all that is stored off-chain and then obviously you have the user interface and then you have the metamask wallet that is integrated into this so if i invested in a property i can see how many t1 tokens i own in that property or how many sorry how many t2 tokens i own in that property or how many t1 tokens i have with the holding company that i can invest in any of the properties that the holding company has so if i were to summarize t1 tokens that are issued at the holding company level are used for investing in any of the properties so the way the company wanted to work is they wanted to use their own tokens they wanted to mint their own tokens at the holding entity level which which i call t1 tokens those tokens can be used to invest in property one property two property three so basically you will go to a liquidity pool use the t1 token to swap it for t2 tokens for property two t3 tokens for property three so essentially you can use the holding company tokens and that is how we build resiliency from impermanent loss right so we don't want the fluctuation of external crypto to affect our investments so this is our architecture it it details out what is happening in each one of the layers the the top layer focuses on how do you set up the whole environment the application manages the property catalog the property document details views about each LLC how is it managing the property what was the rent collected how much did investors make on each one of those properties there are investor views so that they can see their balance at any point in time or they want to add liquidity or swap their tokens and then there's a dashboard and then the contracts are liquidity pool contracts which are pancake swap or uniswap we use these contracts we out of the box and then we use tokenization to mint tokens t1 t2 we actually extended the erc 20 and erc 7 21 so one of the things is like I've used a lot of publicly available tools and the deficiency in many of these tools is that you know you have to build the rules at the token level because if you build the if you build the rules at the application layer then somebody coming out from outside anybody can access a token contract if you know that address correct if I know the address of a token I can go and interact with that token so the token has to behave the same way whether you come through coinbase whether you come through be a you know benance us or whether you come through the application its behavior has to be always consistent and the only way to build consistency into these tokens is when you put the business rules within the token so the token in our case t1 and t2 actually have business roles with checks who is asking me to buy you know who is actually wanting me to send these tokens is it an accredited investor so those rules are actually built at the extended token level and not into the application so those were things that we wanted to test the second thing we wanted to test was that we did not want anybody who is not part of the solution to be putting money into the pool so we didn't want somebody coming in from the external world and putting money into the liquidity pools so we had to build rules inside these token contracts to say if you are not a member if you are not a registered member of this particular entity holding entity you cannot add investment into the liquidity pool or you cannot swap so we had to take those rules and build it right into the contracts of the token so that is very critical consideration if you want your application to behave the same whether you come through the application whether you come through a metamask interface or another wallet interface or you directly talk to the token address and similar potential applications for this kind of a rental you know where you want to earn dividends by investing in assets there are many different applications of the same model so I can use the same model that I've shown you for investment in private aviation a friend of mine has seven aircraft and essentially they have what do you call fractional investment he is a majority shell holder but the rest of them is tokenized and basically investors like us have an investment in that aircraft so if the flight is full they make money if the flight is empty they lose money but of course that's a good application of how do you want to you know create an nft out of your aircraft and then how do you want to make sure that you can tokenize the seats or you can tokenize the flight flight hours and then investors can have a stake in this aircraft and earn dividends car rentals oil and natural gas right essentially a rig is usually shared by many different oil drilling companies so the rig is very important in terms of an asset you can token you can nft the rig and you can tokenize the asset and as the rig is being shared by different oil companies you can start earning dividends so dividends can be in the form of tokens or dividends can be fiat currency converted to usdt and usdd converted into a property token or an asset token and finally art and interior decor rentals so i used to be you know in the early days of my career i had a friend all he did was buy very expensive artwork and he will go to different homes and he will change their artwork every week so some of the some of the folks had rich art in their homes and the reason was he would rent they would rent the wall to him and he will come and put a different picture every time on their wall and there would be expensive paintings and so that's a rental business so if somebody want is somebody had a rich elegant taste and they wanted different artwork so the art rental business art can be tokenized and then the rental business can give the renters or the stakeholders in that art dividends based on the rentals with that you know chain art often follows a methodology that is tell me when you want to come up okay chain art always has a methodology so when we do an assessment of any client we look at the following things we look at the business which means what is a monetization model what is a funding model what is the market adoption because without adoption your solution will fail and we look at the legal and compliance rules so that is our solution approach so we look at the business the technology whether we use public private or hybrid whether the platform you know and what kind of a platform or network we want if you want public do we go with hedera do we go with ethereum or we go with binance we also look at the structure of their of the network and all the technology components so I told you I'm using pancake swap contracts we have to look at which contracts we want to leverage out of the box and which contracts we want to extend and lastly we look at one time capital expenses ongoing operations and how do we govern is you know govern the solution so that's our approach and that's exactly the approach we followed here and our model for decomposition is to look at various aspects of any solution so this is the model that we follow for every client that means when we go into a problem we do a detailed analysis of all the aspects so this is the dimensions by which we assess that business case it is not that we dive straight into chain code or into contracts we look at what is the business model the organizations involve the personas the assets the contracts that need to be built what integrations are required what are the policies and procedures audit and compliance requirements transactions and business events information what kind of articles are needed in terms of getting secure data what are the application components what is the portal interface that sits on top of the application and what is the mobile interface that is required and finally what kind of an environment are we going to deploy this and how so this is our approach typically for every you can say opportunity and we have a series of things that we go through within each one of them before we actually design the solution and and figure out whether it is feasible to build the solution whether it makes sense or not with that i'm going to just give it to ji jo here who is going to say some things come on oh okay if you ji jo you can talk quickly and ask yeah i think i think we are already time's up so so maybe maybe there's only one line i probably wanted to add that chain art started a blockchain journey along with hyper ledger in 2015 when hyper ledger was was being developed at the ibm labs around with the Linux foundation so we got the opportunity to do the testing of the fabric at the labs and after six years of the journey i mean we were not known as chain at at that time we were known as our parent company called it people corporation after six years of our journey i think the last year everest everest group published a report about chain yard i mean they they're assessment metrics out of 23 it companies and chain yard was way up in the top as a one of the major contender on the blockchain services right so i think i will stop at this point and we do have a product called trust your supplier and and we can stop for a few questions and let's take a question i think that's what she was going to ask about those slides okay sure there are people on the virtual audience so if we can ask how long does it take you to set one of those systems up in regards to helping a client with a new holding company and all the llcs how long does it take to get all the information together our six weeks to do the it takes anywhere from four weeks to six weeks to do that assessment and analysis and typically if you are doing a we don't do pocs anymore because most of the concepts on blockchain are proven what we do is proving some of those critical pieces whether they they will work or not so for example in this we didn't do a full poc we wanted to see whether you can make modifications to the you can extend the token contracts to have the business rules of the llc and the holding entity and then can investors add to the pool and how does the pool behave when there is permanent impermanent loss or whatever that is so to that extent we built so this particular thing took us about six weeks okay just to prove the you know do the assessment based on our approach and to do the poc which i call proof of feasibility but normally if you had to build the solution after that it is it is much more easier because we understand what we need to build so we always have the fundamental fundamentals laid out and if the fundamentals are clear it's a breeze for us to build depending on the size of the solution obviously sometimes it takes three months to do an mvp and sometimes it takes 10 weeks to you know more than three months to build an mvp but but over the time over time we have built so many applications a typical assessment for any solution typical assessment as i said strategy development is four to six weeks and a typical approach for building the solution an mvp is about three months and and then hill one hill two to refine that solution based on whether it meets your client goals and the adoption is good is three three months of what do you call incremental hills to make the solution robust or or productionize it so you know this this presentation i have uploaded so you have all the slides and you have the email address obviously it is a little complicated for me to talk on many different concepts all the time but in order to do justification that what we built i think like i had to skip through a lot of the concepts or muddle it up as i went through so i hope it was enjoyable and you all had something to learn from our experience