 And we are, yep, we are live. Excellent. Well, thank you everybody so much for joining us today. We are the OpenJS Foundation and this is our monthly AMA where we spotlight all of the cool goings on within the foundation. This month, we are going to be talking about OpenJS World and our speaker submission, which is now open through February 15th. And we have members of the OpenJS World Program Committee who will be talking through all things CFP. Before I hand it over to our moderator, Joe Seppi, I wanted to let you know that if you have any questions during today's AMA, you can drop it in the YouTube chat or you can ask us on Twitter at OpenJSF. And with that, I'm going to hand it over to Joe. Great. Thank you, Rachel. And thanks everybody for joining. Thanks, Jory and Divya. Why don't we get the conversation started with some introductions? How about you, Jory? Why don't you start? Not only introductions, but also tell me about the first talk that you gave as well. Sure, yeah. So I'm Hunky Dory Jory Burson. I'm the OpenJS Foundation Community Manager. And my first talk, my first tech talk was actually at Tecla Homa in like 2012 or 2013. I can't remember exactly, but Tecla Homa is like a wonderful local community back in Oklahoma City. And they do an event called Thunder Plains JS. And I was so excited. I was last to go that day. I was so nervous and I ended up, like I think it went terribly for me actually, but I learned a lot and I've learned a lot since then and I'm excited to share about that today. Cool. Thank you, Jory. How about you, Divya? So I'm Divya. I am also a member of the OpenJS community. And my first talk was actually at nyc.js.org, it's a meetup group pre-COVID that would meet up and that's when Vue had just come out, Vue.js. And I had been using it for the early days, you know, coming around. And they asked me to give a talk about how Vue is different than React and Angular. So my talk was on comparison of the three frameworks and it did not go as well as planned because I was the first person on stage and there were way, way more deeper, you know, projects being demoed after me and I did not have anything to demo. I just stood there and I was talking for 40 minutes. So I was super nervous, but I was like, okay, at least I did it. That's fun. Yeah, I miss events and stuff. I can't wait to get past COVID. So I am Joe Seppi. I work at IBM as an open source engineer and advocates. I'm the chairperson of the OpenJS foundations cross-project council. And my first talk was at Cascadia.js in Vancouver. I can't remember, maybe this was 2014, 2012 somewhere in there. It was at a really cool theater and I was like second to last and I, you know, was before Tom Dale which was really intimidating because I love Tom and that's where I met him. And anyway, it was intimidating. The talk went well. I can see actually in, when I watched the video I can see there was a moment where I paused in my head and said to myself, why do you feel like you're gonna throw up? Cause you're doing pretty well. Just calm down and keep going. And I did, but I could see that little pause in the video and I watched it, it cracks me up. But yeah, that was my first talk. Technically I did a warmup talk for that at NYC, what were we called then NYC HTML5 or something? And Dominic DiNicola was in the audience and he kept correcting me. And he'd be like, actually in the spec it says this and actually we just updated that. Anyway, it was great to have him in there. He was fun to be a little bit of a, you know, the peanut gallery. Always added some color to the talks, which was fun. Anyway, so those are our first talks. I actually think that Jory wasn't honest. That wasn't her first talk. It was her first tech talk. Maybe we'll get into the actual first talk later. So where should we start? We maybe let's talk about what is open JS world first. It's an event that has sort of evolved over the years. This will be the second year as the open JS world events, the year previous to that. Well, I guess a couple of years previous to that was the node JS, node plus JS interactive events. And then before that it was the node interactive events. So this event has been going on for many years. Vancouver, Montreal, we were supposed to be in Austin last year, but got derailed by a pandemic. But yeah, this event's been going on for a long time and it's one of the flagship node events and now has expanded beyond that. So it's an exciting event. I don't know, Jory, do you have anything more to add on the event itself? Well, and so I was thinking about adding, we all just shared our like, you know, little stories of getting started. And I hope if you're watching this and wondering if you should kind of get into the world of delivering tech talks, what you'll note is that despite the stress, perhaps embarrassments, you know, the relative success or failure of each of our like origin tech stories, we survived. And we've gone on to give like, I think plenty more talks since then, sometimes you just got to rip that bandaid. And so I hope that you have, you know, out there have your first tech talk story to share with us soon. So that's only, I wanted to add on that. Yeah, and then on the, like our event, you know, I think one thing that makes OpenJS World unique in the world of like open source JavaScript conferences is that for a while there was a bevy of very like focused conferences, like, you know, React or Backbone Conf. We had Backbone Conf for three years. There was three years ago, there was a Backbone Conference. And OpenJS World doesn't promote specific frameworks or projects or tools or, you know, libraries. It's a place for like all. And I think that's one of the important like evolutions of the conference over the last several years is like a move more toward being about the ecosystem generally than about, you know, one specific project or another. Yeah, good point. And I'll add too that traditionally we've had the collaborator summits alongside the events. And I think, you know, we still need to figure out what we're doing for that this year. But that has taken a similar trajectory and expansion. You know, it used to be very node focused and collaborators would get together and discuss, you know, specific stuff to Node.js. But over the last couple of years, that has also expanded. The collaborator summit is open to, you know, all the projects and beyond. So it's really, the event overall has really grown in a great way. It's really about like what concerns you. Like you are a JavaScript developer and whether you happen to be a JavaScript developer for Node or any other open.js foundation project or any project, any JavaScript project generally like there doesn't even have to be a foundation project. What's on your mind? Like what problems are you having? Because this is a group of people who care to have that conversation with you, I think is my experience. You mentioned Vue being a project that you were really interested in and involved in. That's not a open.js foundation project, but you know, if you wanna come talk about that. Yeah, so I mean, I've given, I think like being in the JS world, we have so many frameworks and libraries and stuff. And I think that open.js is world actually, you know, adds more of a nicer layer because it's very inclusive. And that's like, you know, you have some people that like Vue or like Node or like wanna know more about JavaScript or some cool library or something. You know, I feel that instead of just focusing on like a particular thing and limiting the audience, I think this is like a more exclusive, like open to everyone sort of event where, you know, people that are amateur to like, you know, professional like super JS developers, I can say, you know, are can join in and you know, learn something from each other. I think it's a much more open community and much more exclusive, like inclusiveness is there. And I think that's why I think open.js world is fantastic. That's great. Cool. So moving on, I guess what's, what are the details of open.js world this year? It's June 9th, right? Yep. And also, you know, obviously last year we were a little bit disrupted by this whole pandemic and you know, that's something we take very seriously. Actually, we were really monitoring that quite closely. Last year we made the call to make it an online event. This year we've done so preemptively just gone ahead. Even, you know, in June, we just want everybody to be safe. So we're making that a virtual event. We're also doing things a little differently where we're gonna be premiering content like the keynote content on YouTube live. So people can come together and watch it together and we'll have a chat, you know, forum for that. And then our breakout sessions, which I'm hoping that folks watching this today will be maybe inspired to submit a conference talk proposal for. You're gonna have the opportunity to record those and submit them in advance. So that takes away a little of the pressure. You know, if you're like worried about delivering something live, you know, don't be. Because you don't have to deliver it live. You can record this in advance and that actually opens up a lot of creative potential. If you're curious, like Joe, like didn't you, you and Michael did a whole thing last year where you had like a set and then Lizzie Prater and Peter Hottie of Moddable, they were talking about like IOT stuff. Like they edited a whole bunch of stuff and got really creative with it. You can do that in this case. And that's one of the things that I like about a virtual conference that, you know, plus some content concepts. Yeah, yeah. And you can edit, you know, if you mess up, you can retake and it's all fine. You know, I'm enjoying doing the, as much as I miss live events, I'm enjoying doing this recorded content. Cool. So we are a part of the OpenJS World Program Committee answering questions here. And people may wonder, what is a program committee? So, you know, the three of us, as well as several others get together on a weekly basis at this point, trying to be prepared for the June date and talk about, you know, a variety of things related to the events. Obviously, you know, format and everything was discussed. We're figuring out keynotes and talk links and such. But, you know, we also have representatives from across the Project Spectrum at the OpenJS Foundation. So folks from, you know, Node and, what are some of the other projects that we have? I'm kind of blanking now. Appium, Webpack, Dojo, there's 37. Would you like for Vita? No, I just met in the regular attendees. But yeah, we've got a variety of folks joining. You want to expand on what we're doing in the program committee, either Jory or Divya? I think in the part of the program committee, you know, we are really like looking at to provide the best experience possible to the members and the community as a whole. So, you know, we also look at a lot of like issues that come up on, you know, that have been given to us or posted to get up on our repos and things like that. And then we have a discussion on what is the best fit? And it's just not like people in the part of the community. I'm sure, I know that I was a participant for many months before I got to join in. And I definitely chimed in in a lot of the talks. It's open to join. And, you know, if you're not a member, you can always come in and, you know, listen into the talks and give your feedback. And if you have any questions or any queries of sort, those can be answered. And I think that we try to do the best we can to make the best decisions and best help possible to the community by discussing it and then coming up with a solution that is very inclusive and taking in suggestions from everyone and actually figuring out or be also like, let's say we don't come up with a solution, we list them out on the repo and let us take a vote, you know, or let us sit there and see what the community feels about it or what the people feel about it and then give us some feedback and suggestions. I think one of the things I would add to Divya's response is that, you know, you don't really, we've got a nice group of folks, many of whom come, you know, every week, but not everybody because it's a time commitment. And that's fine, right? Because it takes all sorts of people and all sorts of volunteers to put on an event. And if someone, if you're like interested in learning how to put on a tech event, this is a great group to come follow along with because we've got a lot of, first off, we've got the Linux Foundation's events team is always there sort of in the background, providing like what they've learned from the many different events that they put on, kind of what's possible, tools that we may not have heard of, that kind of stuff. So I just feel like I'm learning something even though I've been part of several different tech events in the past. And then secondly, you know, even if your time commitment is only just a few hours, then there's opportunities like getting involved with the CFP review process, which is really like, what kind of things do you wanna hear about? If you were going to this event, what talks do you wanna like, what problems, again, what problems do you have and which talks are maybe addressing those problems? And that's something that we have to have like broad community input on in order to put out material that's relevant. So. Yeah. Yeah, and that's a good segue too. We can start to talk about the CFP process. I believe it was opened up in what, mid January, late January, somewhere in there, but regardless, it's open now. And is it February 15th that the CFP closes, correct? And I assume that if you, what's the URL for the event? Is it openjsworld.com? I'm gonna, should I type that in? I don't actually recall the full URL and... Yeah, that works actually. Yeah. Openjsworld.com, which redirects to an openjsf.org page. And from there, you can submit your talk, you can register for the events, we have a few keynote speakers already announced, which I guess we can share here. Analytical, Anna Lytical, YouTube coding educator, coding drag queen and Google engineer is one of the already announced keynote speakers. Kian, the CEO of NearForm. I'm not gonna try to pronounce his last name. I feel bad that I never, I don't know it. I know how to say his first name. And Lynn Clark, who's fantastic, senior principal, software engineer at Fastly. I've seen many of her talks and they are wonderful. And Scott Hanselman, the partner program manager at Microsoft will also be speaking, another great speaker. Is Scott doing a panel, if I remember correctly from our program work? Yeah, Scott will be doing a panel. I'm really excited about Scott's panel. I think the primary focus of that is gonna be really geared toward folks who are, because Scott mentors a lot of people in tech and a lot of people who have come from sort of the like non-traditional, what we think of as non-traditional backgrounds, like they maybe have switched careers. They were a lawyer, they were something else and then they've come into coding. And so Scott does a lot to support that community. And I think we've got some co-panelists with Scott, Scott will be moderating, who work and support specific communities like veterans in tech and that kind of thing. So I'm really excited to see and hear that panel. Yeah, yeah, me too. It looks like we have a good question from YouTube. How many keynotes do we expect to have for this 2021 event? Great question. So we will probably have nine keynotes. That is the, that's the plan. Some we are working on announcing later just because it's kind of nice sometimes to have some surprises and we have some that are not quite finalized, but we anticipate to be finalized soon and we'll announce. And there we're expecting them to be roughly about 20 minutes long. Is that right? Maybe the panel might be a little longer. Yep. Keynote talks are typically about 20 minutes. We may have some messages from like really big sponsors, you know, the platinum level sponsors for the event will probably get just a few minutes to share some remarks. And then Scott's panel, we think we're talking about giving 35 minutes for that. But that's all details of the program which often change between now and the day of. So I wouldn't want to commit to saying that that's exactly what it's gonna be. The other thing to share just as a reminder since it's gonna go online, these will all be things that you can watch later. We'd love for you to watch live. We really want you to watch live if you can. But if something comes up and these will all be on YouTube for you to refer back to. Yeah, yeah, watch live is encouraged. And I'm, you know, wondering about some watch parties. We should work on them. Yeah. Yeah, cool. So what I thought I had a question there for a minute off of that, but now I can't remember. Oh, I was gonna mention, we had some really great keynotes last year. Fantastic. So if you're curious, you know, go on the internet and look that up. Spoke with someone from NASA, an astronaut. Yes. She was really, really great. Lots of good talks from last year. Cool. So yeah, we had started this conversation on the CFP process. You know, we encourage folks to submit their CFPs. We haven't started looking at them yet because that will happen after the process is closed. What, I see one question here. Can I submit more than one talk? And the answer is yes. Right? You know, we probably would not choose more than one talk but you're happy to welcome to submit more than one. Yep. Any guidance on that, Jory, Divya? Yeah, I definitely would say submit more than one if you've got more than one idea. And I think what's important is that, you know, you are putting out an abstract that you are passionate and excited to talk about, right? And so if that happens to be more than one thing and trust me, I feel you, I have opinions about lots of things, then great. But we'll probably just take one of your talks and one thing that I saw happen a couple of times last year and last year's CFP was people would say something like, oh, I've submitted a second talk and, you know, I'd really rather talk about this one. You know, so it's like, okay, you can do that too if you wish. No penalty or judgment for that. I have a question. Yeah, I think that would add to Jory's point. I think, you know, if you have two different talks, I think that's great. But I think that it's more about also like how much different they are. Like I don't, I feel that if you do submit another talk, don't just submit something that's like an additional add-on or, you know, just a little extra layer and with the other talk, it would just make it better. So just be mindful of that. Good point. Yeah, good point. And so I have a question. As a program committee person member, can I submit talks? You can. So here's the deal. We're recruiting a lot of people from the community to review CFPs. If you also want to submit a talk, you are perfectly allowed to do that. We have some functionality in our review tool that allows you to decline to review a talk. So you can say, I'm sorry, that's my coworker, my best friend, you know, my boss, whatever. So I'm not gonna review that because there may be a conflict of interest or that's my talk. There's a conflict of interest. So we have that capacity in our tooling for you to say, I have to decline to review this. So as long as you're okay, you know, with declining yourself, you don't get to vote for yourself. Is it a blind CFP process? It is not. That is something that, you know, frankly, I'd love it if the tool were capable of allowing that for us. But the way that it's, if you're familiar with like submitable or other sorts of review tools, you get a frame that says, you know, here's some of the details of the person's general application. Like for example, it'll say like, you know, it's a talk submission or it's a workshop submission, you know, that kind of thing. And then on the next screen is the abstract and that, which is separate from the first screen, which has their name. So what I do as a reviewer is just jump to the second screen and then I go back and, you know, if I need to fill out some gap in my understanding of what this submission is about, I might go to that first screen, but you can see who submitted as a reviewer. So it's not entirely blind. Okay. Great. And I'll just remind folks that if they want to ask questions, they can do so in the YouTube chats or on Twitter. If you look up my, at Joe underscore sepi, I have a tweet about this happening. Feel free to respond there or at the, you know, tweet at the openJSF Twitter handle. Cool. So another thing we can talk about and I think we've touched on this, but session formats, right? It's the keynotes will be live, but anything beyond that will be released day of Netflix style, pre-recorded playlist and, you know, maybe we'll figure out some watch parties, but that's the plan. This is actually an old JavaScript class. I don't know if you can see it. It's sort of a little bit of yellow is still there. It's from one of the JS comps. That's funny. Cool. Should we talk about any of like our, I guess, diversity goals? Maybe is the term I would use? Sure. Yeah. So, you know, I think one thing, you know, we've been practicing for a while is that on like when we have panel talks or if we're gonna have talks where there's maybe a co-presenter, we wanna see some diversity there. So we don't have like, you know, all male panelists or anything like that, or, you know, that we just are asking the question of like, we want everybody to submit talks regardless of who you are, where you are, et cetera. There's no pre-requirement there. We also wanna ensure that the people who are presenting the talks are, you know, excited to present that material and are qualified and are like the right people. And there may be some times where we wanna know, like, great, this is an important question. This is an important problem. It's an important project. You know, are there others beyond like, perhaps what we typically see white men in tech, you know, that could come add perspective, add, you know, a different frame, you know, of reference to that material. So having this rule of like no manals as I like to say, I think make sure that we've got lots of representation on stage. Great. I'm getting something from our producer. Yep, the keynote diversity is already 60% confirmed to date. So that's a good start. Thank you, Rachel. Cool. Yeah, and of course that's something that we have, we have, you know, a diverse group of voices in the program committee itself and definitely are working to have that reflected in the event overall. So let's get into maybe some like dos and don'ts of submitting a talk. Yeah, let's just open it up to Divya and Jory. What are some dos and don'ts that you think of in terms of talks of middles and abstracts? So actually one of my favorite things that comes to mind is that don't use, the talk should be like, should be wide where a wide of audience can come from a different, like let's say people are from different backgrounds, different skill levels, can come and really enjoy the talk and get a good gist from it, rather than making it either too technical or too basic where it's like you start it all excited and people are getting into it, but then you never get that spice or like that meat as you may, you know, from that, it would just feel like, you know, that the talk could have been better or it couldn't have been avoided, type of thing. Yeah, that was one of the first things I learned in that talk that I had mentioned my first talk at the beginning of this AMA. When I gave the dry run at the meetup events, when I wrote the talk, I kind of assumed that, you know, everybody knew a lot of stuff already and kind of aimed for more technical details and a bunch of people came up to me afterwards and said, oh, that was interesting, but you kind of lost me at this point. And so that was helpful for me to go to the larger event, you know, I kind of rewrote some of the talk to make sure that I did try to reach a wider variety of people, make sure that I explained things well enough for people new to the concept, but I had enough, you know, depth there for folks who were a little more experienced. So that's definitely something to keep in mind. Yeah, I think one kind of way that I think about it is like, it's not really a talk about you showing off how technically smart you are, right? Like it's, the goal is to provide a talk that is technical in nature, but tell a story that other people can generally follow. And so it's not, like we're not, you're not there to prove that, you know, all of the intricacies of like, you know, the jQuery, you know, plug in ecosystem or something very obscure like that, that there's some value or some story that you have to share as a result of something that you learned from that, you know, it's different than like, than showing off like that, that technical, you know, aptitude and yeah, showing how smart you are. Oh, I guess it kind of on Divya's point too, like you're kind of hinting at like, themes of reviewing what you, what you're gonna say for perhaps technical jargon that people may not know. Like one thing I'm really bad at is always using three letter acronyms for things. I'm like, oh yeah, it's just, you know, the W3C does a APG, XYZ, people are like, what is any of that mean? So, you know, just make sure you're kind of watching for that jargon or those things that may be accidentally confusing to people and also for like inclusivity in like your language. If you're telling a story or making, this is always scary, like making a joke and a talk. You know, cause that's either gonna go, maybe it'll go well, maybe it probably won't cause you'll expect people to laugh and they won't laugh and then you'll be like, oh, sorry, dang, I really needed people to laugh at that so that, you know, so anyway, so just caution when you're telling stories or trying to share an experience that you think might be relatable to other people, it might not be. So, you know, just evaluate that. I was gonna say, Divya, real quickly, I rushed through my jokes, so then I don't, you know, I try to make sure they're okay, but I just rushed through them so I don't have to worry about people laughing. I was gonna say that, you know, also do make sure that you're here to like educate and inform people, not make fun of like something or, you know, downplay some other tech that's out there because that can happen because I know that developers, being a developer as myself, we have some very strong points or opinions on tools or frameworks and libraries and I think that, you know, talks are not for renting, they're more for like educating people and letting them know like, you know, why you're so passionate or why you're so like into this further framework or like this library and this technology and promote like wellness. I think that you can keep the renting and offer Twitter and, you know, other things. So just be very clear and mindful of that because not everybody is gonna know and, you know, not everybody's comfortable with that. Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. I don't think you should really be bashing any technology unless it's PHP, but, you know, I think, no, I'm just kidding, I'm kidding, just kidding. That's a really good point though, Divya, thanks for bringing that up. What other do's and don'ts do we have for a talk submissions? And I think definitely kind of getting back to related point, which is tell a story, you know, take us, you know, if you're presuming a talk and maybe it's a talk where you do have what you might consider to be a controversial opinion or you have a perspective that you think is on how something should happen that's not shared. Tell us the story of how you got to that. You know, take us on a little bit of that journey with you so that even those who may not have the like technical familiarity with that technology can sort of follow your logic or follow like, you know, what steps you took to sort of reach those conclusions, right? And I think that is always, and people like storytelling, like, you know, start with like, I was start with whatever started you down that train of thought and people love that. What we don't love is to maybe start before, let's, I was gonna say like start too early in that storytelling process. So, you know, this sometimes happens is people will start like, well, my name is so-and-so. And, you know, I got started in 1991 with, you know, something, and unless that is relevant at all to the exact problem, like we probably don't need all of that backstory. We're not talking about a novel here. We're talking more about like your kid's chapter book or something in terms of story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's a good point. And I have an 11 year old, you know, who we obviously in the pandemic are schooling at home. And I talked to him about like, you know, essays and, you know, beginning, middle and end, you know, set your story up, kind of get things started, dive into your journey and what's going on there. And then, you know, make sure that you're driving towards a conclusion. So when you wrap up, it kind of pulls everything together and makes sense. Yep. Yeah, I also wanted to add saying that don't be too light also on the details. Like if you're giving a talk, like you want to also praise yourself, but don't be just like, I used X, Y and Z and it was awesome. Like why was it awesome? Like what did it solve? Like what got you so excited to give a talk on it? Like, you know, be such that you are pacing yourself by giving out certain details or like also getting the audience members excited along with you. And really telling about that journey. Just don't like, you know, come to a conclusion and like leave people ahead. Like I'm not trying to say that just don't give too much or too little, but just be careful about how much you give out. But make sure that it's something that you think is justifiable. Yeah. So what about in terms of like actual submissions, you know, and thinking about your title and your abstract, you know, I encourage folks to be descriptive and creative and you know, you're essentially selling your talk, right? You want it to be accepted. And so you're really trying to put your best foot forward. And then, you know, we can expand upon that but I'll also add sometimes the tool offers like a little extra one. Like, you know, do you have anything else you want to share with us? And I always try to make something like personable there and probably silly, but like try to bring some of my character to the submission. So that's, you know, when you get a, when you're looking at an abstract or whatever, it's just some text, but if you try to bring yourself to that and add some of your character into it in any way that you can, I think it's, you know, if you can get that through in the CFP process, then that's great. I think that's like a way that you kind of signal to the reviewers that, you know, you're gonna have some storytelling to share, some flair, you know, something that will capture people's attention and cause them to really listen to not just the words that you're saying, but also the underlying like meaning and that there is underlying meaning and message there. So I think, and I also think it's also, it's a little tricky sometimes, right? Where you're like trying to sell that, you know, like idea, but also do so in a way that isn't so overtly selling, in some cases, a product or selling a company or even a specific open source project. The sales pitching is something we wanna keep entirely out of the program. This isn't one long commercial for different projects or companies or products out there, but you are right. Like you've gotta like kind of sell a little bit, like why this could be a special thing. So I think that's important also in the submission process, you know, do take to heart, like that sort of when we're not there, this is not a captive audience for you to market to, but, you know, perhaps something more. Yeah. I also would say that, you know, in the submission process, do articulate all the things about your talk. Just don't assume that the reader or person who's reviewing the talk is gonna understand everything because they are, it's a real person reading and they might not have all the technical details or knowledge that you were to present. So I think like, you know, whatever you think is actually important, just articulate that really well or you can break it down into smaller points, but do make it sound interesting and make it sound so that, you know, it gets even the person reviewing and, you know, into it. And it's like, okay, you know what, I think this might benefit as a talk. And I think that is also another key point to keep in mind. Yeah, good point. Yeah, I sometimes actually write, I don't know how common this is, but I write a talk title and abstract first and I try to figure out like how I can make that really enticing and interesting and make it a talk that like if I read it, I would wanna go see it. And then I write the talk to like kind of fit that, you know, that setup. Yeah, and, you know, one other note we have here is, you know, take advantage of your character limit. Don't, if you have more space to explain what you've got, you know, make the most of what you've got there. Yeah, and that's one of the things that I found last year in my, in participating in the review process was that there were a lot of times where I was like, well, this may be there's something interesting here, but like I wish it told me more and it would be because they, in the abstract section, I think there's something like 400 or 600, like there's a lot of character limit and then we'd get just maybe a couple of sentences and it just wasn't enough to really communicate with clarity, you know, what this talk would really be about. So definitely take advantage of the full, the full sort of... Yeah, that's available. And then I think maybe to kind of wrap up this conversation, the section of the conversation, you know, the talk doesn't need to be about an open JS project, you know, anything that is bringing value or something interesting from the community overall, we're interested in. Yep, definitely. And even it doesn't even have to be specifically like about a project, if it's, you know, we take talks that are sort of more sometimes focused on developer culture or, you know, workspace needs like mentorship, other themes that are relevant to, you know, your interest and your concerns as a practitioner, you know, then let's talk about it, talk about it all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. You know, I don't know what the right word for it is, but all those sort of soft skills, culture, you know, a variety of different areas that aren't, you know, even technical, I think, can be very interesting talks. Especially if there's something like new or something that has changed. So, you know, for a while, I think we got a lot of talks that were like, you know, getting started in open source. Well, obviously we've care about that. That's an issue and a concern. There's also a lot of existing material now, that kind of the open source JS ecosystem has matured a bit. And so the question is like, well, what is new that may not be discoverable or what's a new idea that may not have been presented yet? Can you share that with us? Because that's, you know, that's, otherwise it may not be something else. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite talks was from that Cascadia event was by Jen Turner. And it was more of an aspirational talk, but it was like, this is a really, really great talk. So, yeah, you know, think outside the box, you know, bring something interesting to the table. And then, you know, first time presenters, we definitely want to encourage folks to, you know, submit talks if it's your first time. If you want any sort of mentorship around talks, I mean, certainly feel free to reach out to me. You know, I think you could probably ping the open JSF GitHub, sorry, Twitter handle and see if anybody's available to help. I know many of us would be happy to to give some mentorship to first time presenters, but we definitely want to encourage people to, you know, don't be shy, join in the fun. Well, yeah, not only that, I think we have a channel on our Open JS Foundation Slack workspace for Open JS World and for mentorship. So feel free to pop in there and ask, you know, ask the community for a review or tips or whatever. There's lots of helpful people there. And there's also a lot of great resources for folks over the years. A number of blog posts have been written, but one group that really does a great job curating a lot of helpful content is the Global Diversity CFP Day Group, which is a day, a year. They used to get everybody together in person. This year it's virtual and it's on February 20th. So check that out. They have like kind of localized chapters that can do some mentorship among folks, but they've got videos and lots of blog content resources, that kind of thing that you can take a look at too. Yeah, good point. The Global Diversity CFP is a great resource. Any other resources that come to mind for folks for looking to submit a talk? I think that there's a number of also materials on the Linux Foundation website as well. So the Linux Foundation does a lot of material for just like general open source best practices, trainings, that kind of stuff. And they've also got a lot of stuff on their blog from the events team about how to put together a good abstract and that sort of thing. So check that out too. Great. Also, I think there's a great post by Scott Hanselman and he's given a great, great post. I think it's absolutely worth reading it on how to give your first talk. And I think you can learn a lot from it. Even if you have given talks and you wanna refresh her, I think it's a great place to go, got a refresher. Yeah, yeah. Great. And I would encourage folks too to talk to their coworkers, their community, people that they're engaged with and bounce ideas off of them. I work at IBM, so it's kind of a big company. So we've got a Slack channel for everything. But we have one called Presentation Help. And basically it's a great group of people that wanna help other folks give talks, but also we raise awareness of open CFPs and we were having weekly dry runs if you wanna give a talk to your colleagues and then have them give you feedback. So that's, if you don't have that, maybe consider starting that at your workplace or community. We did that at Voku, which was where I worked when I gave my first tech talk. And I remember, we did it over lunch. So everybody came into the room and I had my talk and I gave my presentation. And there was like the silence afterwards. And I was like, oh no, and then this old guy, I won't name him because he's like so sweet. He was like, let's work on this a little bit. And I was so glad that he said that, but it was just like, so it's worth it. Do do that, it'll also give you a lots of memories. Yeah, yeah. When I worked at the New York Times, I started a weekly JavaScript internal meetup like a brown bag lunch kind of thing. And it was great. And it was also another great avenue for people to try out their talks and get their toes wet in the water with speaking. So if you don't have that available to you, see if there's a way that you could start it. Otherwise, reach out to us. Yeah, or we'll make time in the community slack. We'll find a time and we'll just pull some folks together. And I know people are down for that. So down, so down. I also have a great suggestion, like if people feel afraid to talk on camera or even for the dry run, great suggestion would be recorded and send it to us. And maybe someone takes a look at it and can give feedback. And I think that way you're not too nervous for getting that anxiety written for giving the talk. And I think that would be a great way to. Yeah, great suggestion, considering things will be recorded. Just record something. Yeah, hopefully that takes a lot of pressure off of people. Like when you say, okay, well, I can record it and I can like, if you're a whiz with this sort of thing or just want to totally nerd out in a perhaps unhealthy way, go edit the heck out of your talk and premiere and add some like motion graphics and stuff like that. Like why not? You can do anything. And that's a unique opportunity that this format I think provides. So give it a shot. Yeah, I agree. Cool, so maybe let's touch on like tracks. Are we having tracks here at OpenJS World? So, yeah, sorry. No, go ahead. Go ahead, Jordan. Now I'm all excited. It's a conversation. Let's go. And so, I think beyond tracks which may kind of, because what we don't want to do is put it in somebody's head that the only thing that we really want to talk about this year is DevOps or something specific or serverless architecture, whatever. That's not really what it's about. We do have some suggested sort of areas of focus that you could say, oh, it's kind of in this bucket if you want. But we typically let the community tell us what they want to talk about and sort of curate from what we've been given themes that seem to continue to pop up. But things that like make a good talk, you know, rather than say like DevOps specifically or cybersecurity or whatever, think about things like, you know, whether you have a case study of how you implemented something or how something's working for you. Case studies are great, you know, if there's like process improvements that you've discovered or like a new workflow that you think is more efficient or fits teams that look like X, like that's a great kind of way. I love theory-based talks and sometimes history talks, cause I am a nerd. We don't often do a ton of those because it's not a historical conference. I would totally go to a JavaScript historical conference, but yeah, anyway, yeah. What am I missing, Divya? I think I'm missing a couple, I don't know. Yeah, I think, you know, I think we need to also like look into like, so the thing with the tracks is that, you know, a tracks kind of like generalizes it or like puts it like in the mindset that, oh, I think I chose like the track of DevOps or like cybersecurity or like, you know, JavaScript quirkiness and things like that. And then your talk is just focusing on that. But I think instead of doing that, just pick a theme or some theory or, you know, as you made some like cool thing that really, like you feel like, you know what, the community or the benefit from this or they're gonna really dig this and just come up with something and then put it in a track, I think, because that way you have your talk and then you're able to evaluate it and see that, you know what, I think it would fit DevOps or I would fit that quirkiness or that, you know, like really cool new track called JavaScript world or, you know, getting excited about and just like, or as, you know, Jory mentioned JavaScript history and then you can get in here and like that. But yeah, so I really think that just more about, it's more about themes and then focus on the talk. That's the main thing though. And I think you just gave me an idea for like a track that we could like suggest is like Quirks mode JavaScript, you know, like that could be all. And yeah, so there's a lot of different sort of ways you could go, like just, you know, let your abstract express your idea as opposed to letting a track sort of confine where you go. We've got sort of a general program for things that don't exactly, you know, for square pegs that don't exactly fit into the round tolls that we've pre-selected, you know, just express yourself. And I think you'll be totally fine. Yep, cool. So let's maybe just quickly touch on the review process and perhaps even use that as a call to action as well if folks want to get involved. Jory, do you have details on the review process? Yeah, so we're currently recruiting folks for participation in that process. We typically, we try and get like 20, 30 different developers to come give us about a few hours of their time. Last year, I think it took me about three and a half hours to review just over 200 something talks. And then we will open that process to the reviewers after the CFP is closed. So nobody takes a look at those until they're all the way in, your application is done. But then we get the reviewers together. Everybody reviews all the talks and then there's a scoring system that is not disclosed. So I don't necessarily know how Joe reviewed the same talk, for example. And then once everybody's reviews are done, it takes a few weeks to get through. And that many people come doing the talks can take a little bit of time, but we try and get that done fairly quickly within about two or three weeks. And then we will get together, take a look at a spreadsheet that the LF team generates for us that says like basically here, here's how it went. And then we can kind of as a team decide because there's always some where people are like, oh, this could absolutely be a talk. Absolutely we need this. And other people who may feel differently. So we talk about those and then typically we'll have that announced. Well, I actually don't know exactly what day we've decided to announce. We're gonna try to have these all announced. It's the goal, but hopefully fairly quickly. So nobody's left wondering. Yeah, great. All right, so folks can reach out to us, the OpenJSF on Twitter to express interest in getting involved there. And generally just if you wanna get involved with the work that we do, we try to do as much of it in the open as we can and be welcoming and keep the barrier to entry quite low. So if you go to openjsf.org slash collaborate, on that page you'll find a number of resources on how to get involved. You'll find a link to join our Slack. Our calendar is public. It's a Google calendar. So you can add it to your calendar if you are interested. You know, the GitHub repo, Oregon repo are a great place to kind of lurk or figure out ways that you can get involved. We primarily work in the cross-project council repo. So definitely check that out. The CPC meets every other week and those meetings are also open. But generally we'd be happy to have folks get more involved and try to be welcoming about that. So please consider it. Anybody else, any comments to kind of wrap this up? Mm, comments. I just would say to those who may be on the fence or may be thinking like maybe this isn't the year for me to do this because of everything, hand waves. You know, I would encourage you to reconsider that position. I think that giving talks is one of those things that can really unlock a lot of professional growth in a person. And so just give it a shot and you know, whether it's with the OpenJS World Conference or with some other event that's happening online this year, you know, I think it's important to share now maybe more than ever. So please, please don't be a stranger and sign up for a talk or sign up to propose a talk and sign up for the conference. We would love to see you. Yeah, I ended closing. I would just like to say that, you know, be excited, be passionate and, you know, just go ahead and do it. I mean, you know, it's also virtual. So there's a lot of like advantages to be virtual than in person. And I think it gives you more time to prepare and record, which is a great thing, which I wish we had all the time. But so I think that, you know, I think we're excited to look at all the talks that come in, but you know, just go ahead and do it. It's a good point. Who knows how like the virtual expectations may change? Like maybe we'll be seeing more like funky contents on the live stage, you know, moving forward. That'd be cool. Yes, aspirational. Great. All right. Well, I think we are out of time over time. I want to thank Jory and Divya for participating and Rachel for helping us make this happen. And thanks to everyone for watching. Either now or in the future. I hope to hear from you, you know, in the variety of places that we are available and hope to see you around soon.