 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump. With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode, that one goes in the vault. Of Mind Pump, we had a good friend of ours, Christina Rice. Yeah, we always have a good time with Homegirl. We love her. She's a young lady, she's got two podcasts that she does. She's a smart lady. She's got a blog, she's got a great social media presence. So me and Adam met her a while ago, right? We went down to LA, did some of our podcasting hard trips. Yeah, it was a good six months plus ago. Super impressed by her. She's a very, very smart girl and super open. And you'll hear in this episode, where we interview her, she actually shares some very personal stuff about her journey through wellness and health. Her podcast, she connects to a younger crowd. So like girls in particular in their maybe 20s or teens. So her message is similar to ours, but a little bit different because of the crowd that she's attracting. But we really like her message. We really like her. So we'd like you to check out her podcast. So her name's Christina Rice. Her blog is addicted to lovely.com. Her podcast, she's got two of them. One of them is straight up Paleo. And the other one is actually adultish. And you can find her on Instagram at addicted underscore two, that's T-O underscore lovely. So without any further ado, here's Adam, Justin and myself talking to Christina Rice. So I'm gonna ask you a quick question without saying Justin or Adam. Is it really gonna be quick? That's a good one. Without, she listens to the show. Without saying Justin or Adam, who's your favorite mind pump host? Without saying Justin. Doug. Yes. Doug always wins. She's smart. Where's Taylor? He's out there. He's doing his little mysterious stuff. Yeah, he's doing mysterious stuff. He likes magicians around. I just never gave me feedback about your package. Oh, it was great. Yes, I did. You saw my Instagram. Yeah, I saw. Did you read that book? No, I'm reading something else right now. So it's on my list though now. You're so sweet that you sent us gifts. And they were all thoughtful gifts. And they were thoughtful gifts. I pride myself on being a really good gift. Are you really? That's great. The total time was horrible at it. That's very nice of you. Don't expect reciprocation. So. That's okay. So I wanna tell our audience, we talked about you on one of our episodes, but I'm gonna talk about it again. Thank you. We had an experience first meeting you. So me and Adam went down to LA to do one of our podcasting hard trips. This is where we just go nuts and get on as many podcasts as possible. We just own this. This hashtag is ours. Just as many as we can do at once. And we were like, all right, we'll take everybody who comes on or whatever. And you were in contact with, I don't know if it was Brianna or. Katrina. Katrina to book. And she's like, she talked about you. And we're like, yeah, we'll do it. We got time. We can meet this person. She's like, I'm gonna go to the show. She seems like a fan. Let's do this. So we show up to your apartment to do the show. And you know, the door opens and it's this real young lady ready to do the podcast. And within 15 minutes, we were so impressed with just how, like you're a little hustler. Like you bust your ass. And then, and then you were, you were not intimidated to interview these two, you know, grown men and you're. Beasley. With the show that you follow. Like you were asking good questions. You weren't necessarily intimidated. It was really cool. You didn't see nervous at all. No. We had such a good impression. I wasn't, I was really excited. I was nervous that I wasn't gonna have enough time, which of course I didn't. Cause I told you I could talk to you guys for 500 hours. But also, I mean, that's the power of a podcast is, I feel like I know you and I don't, I mean, I've met you twice, but I mean, and I'm sure everybody who listens to you feels the same way. Like they feel like they know you. Oh yeah. And people tell me that, you know, people will come up to me and say, I love your podcast. I listened to your podcast and this might seem weird, but I feel like you're my best friend. I'm like, it's not weird. If I listened to somebody every single week, you know, for two years, I'd probably feel like, yeah. Well, think about that. We talk about this all the time that we, I mean, if you're a listener, if you actually listen to the show almost every day, like there's a lot of people that do that. I mean, I'm communicating with you more than I do almost anybody else in my life. I don't dedicate two to three hours. I'm just communicating. Communicating to somebody other than on this podcast. And so if you're consuming that every other day of our show, I mean, shit, I'm basically talking to you more than I'm talking to any friends or family or anybody else. So of course. Now, do you find too, like when you like shows, you identify with some of the host and stuff. So what do you identify with with Justin, Sal, myself? Which parts of each of us do you connect with? We like to hear about ourselves. I think that you guys like just fish for compliments. See? Call them out on that. Of course we are right now. You know what? I identify with you guys. She just springboarded right back at you. That was the right answer. I identify with you guys as a group because I have the same ultimate goal. I like that you guys are no bullshit. I like that. I mean, this is something that a lot of people hate about me is that I'm just so straightforward and blunt and I speak my truth, my mind. I state my opinion and you guys do the same. And you have the same ultimate goal of just like getting real health information out there. And that's my goal too. And that you do it and probably the best way I've ever heard anybody else give that information. That's why I love you guys. Awesome. So you have two podcasts. You have Actually Adultish, which you've had now for almost two years. You have Strictly Paleo. Straight up Paleo. Excuse me, straight up Paleo. How long has that been on? Like three months. Three months. You blog? How often? Usually like three times a week. Three times a week? It varies. It used to be every day and I was dying. Okay, so you're posting pictures of foods that you're making that are paleo or healthy. Your Instagram, you have, how many Instagram pages do you manage? Is it just one or do you have? Now I'm just doing one. Now you're just doing one with how many followers? Like 18,000. You post 50 Insta stories a day at least. Yeah. Are you counting? Sometimes a hundred. And you're going to school trying to get through all of them. Do you guys actually watch them? I watched the first 10 and then I'm like yeah, like trying to like get through it. So you do all this stuff and you go to school. How do you find the time? I don't go to school, it's online. What, fine, you're learning something. Where do you find the time to do all of this stuff? Like how do you find all the time to do this? I have no idea. My days are very structured. My days are very scheduled down to like every minute. What does it look like? Wake up in the morning, what do you do? Okay, wake up in the morning, rebound for five minutes to get that lymphatic drainage going. Okay. Oil pull to lighten my teeth. Clear out the toxins. Do you do oil pull every morning? Wow, oh shit, you're like my, such a bio hacker, I like this. No, seriously though, well I do those things but I won't be as detailed. I usually work for like an hour or two. If I'm working out that day, I'll work out first thing in the morning and then eat breakfast and I will see. The rest of the day is just either clients or podcasts, like if I have something scheduled. I take a break every like two hours or so to like go on a walk and then I take like a lunch break and then after seven p.m. I'm doing that all day and then I'm storing when I'm on my walks and checking social media and posting when I'm on like my walks. And then after the day's done, then I usually eat dinner and then I will just work on my blog or I'll do homework until I need to go to bed. Do you go out? Wow, like do you go out with friends and stuff? No. I mean if I- You're on a mission. I don't really, I mean, no. How do you disconnect then? Like if you're so, if you're constantly tapped into this that's like the biggest issue right now is like I need some space. Like if I get a free hour, I want to just like post it on the couch. I don't want to go out. Are you a Netflix and Chiller? Yeah. Yeah. What's your favorite Netflix shows right now? Actually, no, I actually hate Netflix right now. It's so dry. There's nothing on there. What, there's good stuff. What do you like to watch on there? You don't like Stranger Things? Dude, dark. Okay, Stranger Things but it's done. Dark, dark. What's dark? There you go. What is it? If you like Stranger Things, you'll love it. I'm super picky. I'm just into it. Is it scary though? No, it's like Stranger Things. It's scary-ish. Very thought-provoking. You'll like it. Okay. Those are- But I don't like to watch things that are that thought-provoking like on the reg. Because you're trying to- Because I don't want to think. You're just trying to- You know, I want something that's like- We'll get you coming back though the next day. So give me what you would normally listen to. What watch? What are- I mean, I'm re-watching Desperate Housewives. So she's really watching mindless stuff. Yeah. Trying to chill out. I like 16 and pregnant. Oh, I bet. I bet. The re-runs. So you're so hardcore with what you're doing. You have a passion, obviously, for us. One of the first things we identified with you. But where did you get that work ethic? Because you're 22 years old, you're a kid, and I haven't met, I don't- The only other- I used to hate when I was 22. I know. I fucking used to hate it. Well, you know why. What were you doing when you were 22? Some barnacle calls me a kid. Tell me what you're doing when you're 22. Being an asshole somewhere. I was the same thing. We're all good. I was 19, I was managing gym, 19, 20. But that's what I'm saying. It was so rare that like none of my friends did that. Like I guarantee you none of your friends are doing this kind of stuff. They're not, but I think just in general, people nowadays have to hustle harder. I mean, we're such a fast moving generation with technology. But yeah, I mean, a lot of people my age are just, you know, they graduated, they moved back home. There's something wrong with that, but we're also, I think there's a problem when you're sitting on your ass and not trying to figure out what you wanna do. And my thing is that I spent so much of my life waiting for like better days. I was so depressed for so long and just like waiting, like I just gotta get through this. I just gotta get through high school. I just gotta get through college. And then now I'm done with college and I'm like, I am ready to live my best life right now. Like I'm not wasting any more time. Like, I mean, there was a time when I didn't know, like I like literally thought I was gonna die at one point. And so after that, I was kind of like every moment now, like I have to take advantage of it. Yeah, we gotta go back. You gotta go back, cause you're obviously passionate about health and wellness for a reason. There's some personal reasons. Let's talk about that for a second. Okay. Do you want long version? Whatever, just tell us. This is a podcast. Whatever version you want. Everything we do is long version. So, okay, so what do I start? So my whole life, I had really bad digestive issues, but didn't realize, you know, I thought it was normal. So I didn't notice it. Didn't really know it was abnormal till I got to college. And- Now how did that happen? You were in class and you're farting all the time. So I was like, hey, that's not normal. No, but you know what it really was? What it really was, was when I would spend like weekends with my boyfriend, and I'd be like, he'd be like, why do you never poop? And I'd be like, other people poop a lot? This is a thing? He'd be like, you like don't ever poop. And I'd be like, shit, this isn't normal. Like- You had no idea. Everybody knows. I was like pooping like once a month if I was lucky. Oh my goodness. Shit. Like if I was lucky. Like some, like usually longer. So you were not diagnosed with anything irritable bowel? No, I mean, I thought this was normal. Wow. And like, I was embarrassed of it growing up in, you know, I played volleyball like my whole life. And there were so many things I would, or and I did dance before that. And there were so many things I would skip and I would tell my parents, I have the flu. I would tell my friends I have the flu. And I was really like, I was just curled up in a ball on the bathroom floor in pain because I needed to shit and I couldn't. Like it was so bad. And this was when you were in high school? I mean, it was my whole life and it got worse and worse in high, yeah, it got worse in high school. Oh my goodness. And your parents didn't see any of this as a kid or did this start happening when they stopped, you know? Okay, my family has digestive issues. They just don't care. Oh, I see. Like so I learned from a young age, like it's normal like to poop once a week and it hurts and you know, it's an all day event. And like, I thought that was how it was for people. I thought people just didn't talk about it. Wow. So you had- That's kind of fascinating. So you had digestive issues and you had mentioned- And it was always bloated. So like it was just like the running joke growing up. Like it always looked like I was nine months pregnant. Like, and I was just used to it. You know, I just thought, I don't know, I just thought that was the way it was. And you had mentioned depression and stuff. So you at the same time, you're depressed. So it's obviously contributing to the mental state. Yeah, it was all wrapped up. And I mean the depression was more like that started really bad in middle school with like the bullying and shit like that and self-confidence and you know, girls are mean, boys are mean nowadays. And that was also with the rise of texting and the internet and you know, people are making websites, talking shit about people. It was intense. Like for like sixth graders, like the crap that was going on. And so that kind of- Sixth graders? Sixth grade. Making websites? Yeah. Does somebody made- I'm glad we missed all that. I literally can't even. I look back and I'm like, what the fuck? Wow. So you're doing this in your- Yeah, in college. You're not realizing, now you're realizing, oh, I may have digestive issues. Yeah, I'm like, this is kind of like- How did you tackle it? So, okay, at the same time, I was just generally depressed with my life because I hated college and I hated everything. And I didn't, I felt like, I've always had this problem where I just always felt like the odd person out. I mean, it's hard for me to connect with people my age, honestly. I don't give a shit about, I mean, I got to college and my party days were in high school. I got to college and I was like, okay, I'm ready to be a grandma. I'm over this. And everybody in college, everybody else in college was like, this is the first time in my life my parents aren't paying attention to me. And they're all excited. I'm like, okay, I'm ready to lay down. I'm over that. I was just really unhappy and I hated school and I didn't know what I wanted to do. And all this, it's turned into binge eating disorder. And so I was just bingeing really, really badly. Were you purging also or just bingeing? No, I was just bingeing really bad and I was just feeling like a piece of shit. I felt disgusting and like the bingeing made my stomach even worse. So it was just a big pile of crap. Like, well, not. Now, this is you looking back at yourself and being able to objectively look at it. But when you're going through it, do you feel it and see it or are you numb to it in a sense? No, I felt it. Oh, you did? Yeah, I just, it was not. But still, fuck it, I'm still doing it. Yeah. And there was just one night where I just remember like I was bingeing and I just, I felt so sick and I was like, this has to stop. And I was like crying like tears streaming on my face. I was like hiding in my dorm room like nervous my roommates gonna come home and catch me. Like, and I'm just like, I can't fucking do this anymore. So, I mean. Is that when the light bulb went off? Did you change right then and there? So the next day, it was pretty like, I was like, I'm gonna pull my shit together. Like, I'm gonna, I mean, also at this point, sorry, there's so many different facets to this. That's all right. I forget about my own life. So I had a chronic case of mono. You'll find this interesting. Like a year and a half of mono. Wow. So I had kind of just come off of, you know, I've been really active my whole life. I played volleyball, I did dance. And then so running into college, when I got mono, it was like a year and a half of laying on my bed. So you had severe symptoms of mono? Yeah. Cause most people, a lot of people don't know this. Most people at some point in their life have been infected with the mono virus. Well, I never got the typical throat thing, but it was the fatigue and like the fever. Like it was pretty intense. And like there was a time, like I thought it went away and then it came back. And so I was just feeling like crap because at this point in binge eating, I'm depressed. I was just sluggish and gross. I hadn't like moved my body. Like the most movement I was getting was just going to class and then I would come home and just lay down and fall asleep. So I had also put on weight, like, but nothing. I mean, I'm not the kind of person that really shows when I put on weight. Like I've always been small. But so after that binge, I just woke up and I'm like, I need to pull shit together. I was like, I want to start exercising, eating healthy. Like I'm not going to binge anymore. And I really did turn it around. But that sort of led me into, it started off good. I reached out to my cousin and he taught me more about fitness. Well, at first I tried the whole cardio thing and that didn't work. Where are you doing tons of cardio? So I just, you know, I tried to run the track. I was like, I don't know how to like be in shape without a sport, I realized. All I knew was like there's a track so I tried to run, didn't work. Then I tried to go to the elliptical because that's what every other girl was doing. I hated it. And then my cousin was like, you should try lifting weights. And I was like, okay. So he got me into that and I loved it. Meanwhile, I was just became obsessed with like learning about nutrition on the internet. Not realizing at the time that like the health information wasn't health information. You had to sift through a bunch of bullshit. Yeah, I mean, at the time I just thought that everybody was supposed, I thought healthy was eating low calorie and no fat and you know, just very typical. I mean, my homepage was bodybuilding.com. I'm not joking. Like I was eating like big tilapia, steamed the, you know, like, like plain rice. Like I was just very. Now you know the irony of it is, it was probably an improvement over what you were doing. It was a huge improvement and I felt so much better. And I was actually. Were you starting to get regular bowel movements and depression? But I was just starting to feel better. And especially with my body, like weights changed my body. Like for the first time I like, I was getting toned. Like I had muscle. Yeah, and I loved it. Like it was, you know, like I didn't realize before, you know, I never felt like I needed to lose. It wasn't about losing. I like, I was gaining weight and my clothes were falling off of me because my shape was changing. And I loved having that control over my body. Like it gave me this sense of control. Like, I mean, going on the elliptical, it's like, what the fuck are you doing? You know, it's like, what is this giving me? Besides I'm tired and I hate it. It was not really giving you the same look. Taking away from you. For the first time. Yeah, yeah, it was like three weeks of just like using dumbbells. Like, I mean, I had totally changed. Like I looked different. You know, it was like, how can that actually happen? Digestive issues were still happening. But I was feeling way better. I go on a trip to San Diego. I am like, cheat day, gonna eat some fro-yo. Fro-yo, fuck, that shit. So I don't know what happened. I'm gonna assume there was some bacteria in that shit, but for a week I was so sick. So I, for like a week straight, I was just like shitting my pants, throwing up at the same time. Oh, terrible. Like literally for a week. Like I couldn't move. I was, I felt like an old lady. Like I was just like, what am I doing? Like, and I was freaking out. After about five days, there was like an hour where I stopped, like I wasn't throwing up. And I made it down to the health center. They laughed at me, told me I was pregnant. Oh, what? Told me the only test they would give me was a pregnancy test. And I'm sitting over here like, should I be eating gluten? Like, and the guy was such a fucking asshole. Like, don't even get me started on the UCLA Ash Center. I could, they're horrible. Just so everybody knows they're horrible. Not just me. Like everybody who goes to UCLA and goes there knows that they are, it's horrendous, that medical, whatever. It's horrible. Yeah, so I was like very, I had PTSD because I'm like, do you know how much work it took me to get down here without shitting my pants? And you're gonna laugh at me and tell me I'm pregnant? I'm like, I definitely am not pregnant. And so I made it back up. Then I was still just throwing up, pooping my brains out. Nothing was stopping. Made it back down. This time I got a different doctor. She told me to take metamucil. And I was like, I literally feel like I'm dying. I'm like, I couldn't keep food down, you know? Like, so my parents, it was also my birthday that weekend. My parents and my sister came down to see me. They thought they were gonna hang out with me. They were really just gonna, my mom was just gonna do my laundry because I was just gonna shitting my pants. Like, it was horrible. And so finally she took me to urgent care and that doctor was the first doctor who was like, took me seriously. He was like, you know, you should really try going gluten-free and dairy-free. And I was like, all right, I'm down. Because at this point I had researched this enough where it was rolling around in my brain in terms of the digestive issues. But like, I wanted some authority figure to be like, you should do this. Like, this is a good idea. I wasn't just gonna do it. Just to confirm it. I wasn't gonna just gonna do it because I mean, I didn't wanna give, I didn't wanna give it up if I didn't have to. So after that, finally I could function but my digestion was definitely never the same. Like that was kind of like my trigger. I set everything off really badly. But I went gluten-free, dairy-free. Two weeks later, I felt like, I woke up and I literally felt like, like I didn't need to wear my glasses anymore to class. Like I literally could see clear. I had so much more energy. My joints weren't hurting. Like it was insane. People don't realize that when you have an intolerance to food, it is an immune reaction. And your immune system covers your whole body and it can display itself in a lot of different ways. Everything from, like you're saying, joint pain. It can affect vision. It can affect your sense of smell, your sense of hearing, how you think. So it's what you're saying isn't... I know some people are thinking like, how could it affect the... Your immune system affects everything. And if your immune system is on this hyperalert, kind of inflammatory state, yeah, it's gonna show up in a lot of different ways. Yeah, and the mental clarity. I mean, I've always been smart. Like I've always been the smart one. And I was like, oh my God, what was I doing before? Like my cognitive performance in class is like, it was crazy. Like I just, I felt so much smarter. And I was shocked. I was like, how was I doing this my whole life while I was eating this crap? So my digestion didn't improve, but all of those, I was like, I'm never eating gluten or dairy again. Like I'm not doing it. But meanwhile, I'm like, what the fuck is going on with my stomach? Like now at this point, it's even worse than ever before. So I start researching more. And I think just seeing the power of how gluten and dairy affected me, I was like, food is gonna heal me. And I became... God, how old are you at this point? 19. 19. 20. I was somewhere in there. Great awareness that day. I was just, I mean impressive. Like I was, I became obsessed with this idea, like this food can heal me, like make me feel better. And so I just started researching. At the same time, I start seeing different nutritionists because I was convinced that nutritionists would like know what I should take out or add into my diet to help me. Like because I was convinced that was linked to my digestive issues. So I saw so many fucking nutritionists in LA. You know, supposed to be the best of the best celebrity nutritionists. Every time I get the same damn thing, they just give me a meal plan and it's the same meal plan. Every time it's like a thousand calories. And I'm like, I'm not in here to lose weight. I'm in here to fix my digestion. And every single person I saw was just telling me the same thing. And they didn't, I could tell they didn't know. What were they saying to you? Like low fat, high fiber. I will tell you, I'll tell you what was breakfast. A cup of oatmeal with water, lunch, a piece of fish with a side salad, dinner, a piece of chicken with some steamed vegetables. God, wow. Yeah, it's stable. And I was like, I can't do this. I like, one time I tried following the low calorie thing and I didn't last longer, like two days. I was like, I can't function. This isn't gonna work because I need straight A's. Where did you finally start getting answers? Yeah, I was gonna say, was there a functional medicine practice? So I, my acupuncturist, I started getting acupuncture. Yeah, I started getting acupuncture and I freaking loved her. Pamela, she's shit. I loved her. And she was the first person. She's like, I wanna give you a stool test and check out what's going on. Get a stool test done. And I have Candida and I'm like, fuck yeah. Like if I get rid of the Candida, like all my answers will be solved. Like, you know, I was like, this is it. This is the Candida. So I go on this Candida protocol. Which is what, like it's kind of like, it's no carbohydrates. Yeah, so no fruit, no starchy carbs. Keto diet. No starchy carbs. Yeah. Similar. Paleo, like, you know, no sugar. But at this point I was like, all right, I'm so down with this. So I do it and I, what you have to understand about me is like, I'm very good at falling roles. Like, I'm too good at falling roles. And so I clung to that thing. You know, the things on the list that she was like, just have these in moderation. I was like, I'm not having those at all. You know, it's like, it's like the thing with exercise. It's like, you know, the most is the best. You know, like more I get better results. That means even more is better, right? That's what you think. So I cling hardcore to this and I was doing it all wrong, like not meaning to like, I just, I didn't have any fat in my diet. And when you go that low in carbs, you gotta increase the fat, right? So I was literally living off of protein and like non-starchy veggies. But for the first time in my life I wasn't bloated. I wasn't pooping, but I wasn't bloated and I felt great. And I clung to this. At the same time, I'm clinging more and more to my exercise because that was the one thing in my life I could control. That was the one thing in my life I had control over. Like, I hated school. I felt like I couldn't control that. I couldn't control the relationships in my life. I, there was just nothing I liked except working out. So that grew into an exercise addiction. And at the same time, I'm going on this candy to diet. What was your exercise addiction? What did that look like? Just you're at the gym every day lifting weights? Yeah, like, and it wasn't even, it was too much for my body, for me with the amount of food I was eating. Like, it was like, I had to lift weights for an hour and 15 minutes every day. That was it. Like I had to do it and I had my routine and I had to exactly do that routine, never change it, like very OCD. And I was just, and then I was like obsessed with reading, readingbodybuilding.com and reading what the chalkboard mad was saying and my body green, I just became obsessed with consuming this information. And meanwhile I'm dropping a shit ton of weight. So I'm a small person. I dropped 40ish, 50 pounds in this band about two or three months. Oh, shit. Yeah, but you should tell, where do you walk around right now? Tell people so they understand. I'm like 120 right now. Holy smokes, that's a lot of weight then. I'm usually, like my whole life, well this is so, my whole life. Almost a third of your body weight. I was around, I was around 110 most of my life. When I got, when I had mono, I was at like 130. And then I slowly like was dropping it and then I got down to like 70 pounds. Oh my goodness. There's Mysterio, you were one of those. Hey, hey, look at that. He's so handsome. Yeah, so I was like 70, 73, I think was my lowest. But obviously everybody around me was pretty concerned. I had severe body dysmorphia and like did not, like I knew I was dropping weight, but I didn't, what I looked at, what I saw when I looked in the mirror was not what I looked like. Like I look back at pictures now and it kills me. What did you see? I mean, I just saw the same girl that I looked like in high school. You thought you looked the same? Yeah, like I just thought I looked the same. Like it was easier for me to see it in photos because I would take pictures and I would look and I'd be like, I look so horrible. Like I hated the way I looked in pictures. I hated it, but I just like wasn't really seeing it. And then I kind of started to see it, but I wasn't seeing how bad it was. I had a similar experience where I was at a friend's house and we had done a workout, whatever, and it was hot, we had our shirts off. And I looked at a mirror that was reflecting off of another mirror that had my reflection in it. So I had, so I saw myself from an angle that I don't normally see myself in. And in a split, for a split second, I didn't recognize that it was myself, which was the greatest gift I could ever be given because for a split second, I was object, I could objectively see myself and I had recognized that, wow, I have muscle. Whereas when I looked at myself in the mirror, knowing I was looking at myself, I always looked skinny. I always looked like I don't have any muscle. So for a split second, it was like a moment of clarity. And being able to look at pictures of yourself and stuff kind of provides that a little bit, right? Gives you a little bit of objectivism. Yeah, no. And I took a lot of pictures actually during that time and I would just delete them and I'd get frustrated. And at the time I was like, why do I look like shit in all these pictures when I don't look like this in real life? That's what I thought. When in reality, the picture was showing what I looked like, I wasn't seeing it in the mirror. But I mean, I also was so insecure because I hated it because no clothes fit me. Everything was baggy on me. I didn't like the way I looked. Like I looked like, I hated the way my arms looked. I was so insecure about my arms because they were too muscular for me. Like, you know what, like in Chex Mix, those pretzels that look like this? You know what I'm talking about? That's how I felt like my arms looked. And I was like, it looks horrible. And I was like embarrassed. What? And I couldn't, I just like couldn't wear any clothes I was just wearing like baggy dresses, no pants. And I didn't want to like buy new clothes because I was like, well, I'm going to gain more weight but I couldn't gain more weight. And I was hungry and I was eating a lot of food and I was confused because I'm still not pooping and I'm eating like a whole chicken at every dinner. Like- At this point- You're eating the same, but the same low fat- Yeah, at this point I was eating a huge volume of food but like not that much fat. I mean, compared to what I eat now, not anything. But I mean, I was eating like pounds of meat with every meal and like it wasn't leaving my body and I was losing weight and I was scared. Like I was like- So you're identifying now at this point like, okay, I need to gain weight, this isn't good. Yeah, and I'm freaking out. Because and I just felt like a piece of shit. I mean, just all of the things that come along with being that low weight, I was phrasing. Like besides the fact that I was just getting looked at like I was a freak of nature. Like, I mean, I was freezing all the time. My hair is falling out. You know, like I can feel, I couldn't even sleep because I can feel my knees knocking against each other. Like I didn't like when people touched me, I didn't want to hug anybody because I was literally scared they were gonna like squeeze me too hard. Like, I mean, I felt it, right? But I was so worried about my digestion and at this whole point I'm still convinced. I'm like, this is rooted in my digestion and like the candida left, but by this point I had become really orthorexic and I was really afraid of carbohydrates because eliminating them was the only thing like that made my stomach feel better. Yeah, so I'm like, I was like, I thought if I just started eating carbs again I was gonna get candida back. God, what a lesson in what works for your body now is not what's always gonna work for your body. I mean, you did what you had to do to get rid of candida but you had clung to it to where now it's no longer serving you, now it's going against you. Are you going to school for nutrition at this time or are you, this is before? No, I'm just like just healing, yeah. Okay, so this is before? Yeah, so. You didn't know where you were studying before that? Yeah. I studied psychology and film. Okay, so you didn't know at this point you weren't thinking I'm gonna get into this field of health and nutrition, you're just focused on yourself with that. Yeah, I was just trying to fucking stay alive at this point. Now when did you start putting together that I need more fat in my diet and I'm working out too much and all that? Well, I knew that the exercise was like, I mean it was controlling me. It was just this mental thing, like every day, like I wouldn't hang out with my friends because that's when I'm going to the gym. You know, it was just like controlling me, like let alone that it was, I shouldn't have been working out when I'm not eating enough, like when my body, when I'm so thin, like just mentally I knew it was controlling me but I just couldn't, I couldn't let go of it. How did you break it? We're getting there. Oh, okay. Give me a minute, give me a minute, let me. Oh, I just had fast forward, I don't know what happened. I'm seeing a shit ton of doctors because I'm just really scared. I'm seeing GIs, I'm seeing endocrinologists, rheumatologists, all these people, everybody's just telling me you're anorexic and I'm like, I'm not anorexic though. Like, and this was the issue, is everybody in my, like nobody believed me. Nobody believed me, like my roommates believed me because they lived with me and they saw what I was eating and that's what was also scary and like, you know, my sister and my cousin came down one weekend and I know it was just to like, they just wanted to make sure I was eating but they were just saying, we're gonna help you and like, you know, it was hard because everybody around me was just looking at me like, it's just that look, it's like, in their Heather thinking, I know you're anorexic but nobody wants to say anything and I'm the kind of person I'm very direct, like, nothing pisses me off more than seven. You don't want to elephant in the room, you don't want to like bring it out there. Yeah, no nothing makes me more upset than somebody who beats around the bush. Like, just fucking say what you're gonna say. Like, I just get to the point, right? And so when you're trying to like, small talk with me and I'm sitting here like, and I'm like, I'm dying right now. Like, can we talk about it? Like, let's talk about the fact that you're looking at me and you think I'm anorexic. Like, just ask me. Like, just fucking ask me. Help me trouble, help me trouble shoot this. And like, nobody would talk about it. And when I would try and bring it up, they'd avoid it. You know? Oh, that's funny. And like, but I know, like by the end of that weekend that they came down there like, yeah, you know, we came down just to make sure eating but at this point we're like, scared because we're seeing how much food you eat. Like, like that's scary. Like you're eating this much food and you're still dropping weight. I'm like, yeah, no shit. Like, and so meanwhile I'm freaking out because everybody thinks I'm anorexic. At this point, I mean, I was in therapy and they are telling me that I need to go to a treatment center. I'm like, are you fucking kidding? I'm like, if I go to a treatment center for something I don't have, I will then become anorexic and my gut issues will not be addressed. I will not get the help I need. And then I will literally die because at this point I'm realizing I have malabsorption. Okay. Like I have severe malabsorption issues. Like either that or there's a fucking hole in my intestines because I don't know where the hell things are going. Like, and like, and I was so pissed because nobody's believing me, right? Like, you know, I get an endoscopy and a colonoscopy done, nothing shows up. Like I, God, how frustrating is that? All these people, professionals that you're seeking out and no one has answers to you. Yeah, and I'm getting pissed and I walk in every fucking appointment. You know, I'm seeing the best of the best. I walk in with my fucking file, all my tests. I get test run. I mean, getting test run was like my job. Like literally, I was doing all these weird ass tests and like getting blood work done pretty much every other day. You know, and I'm like, I'm struggling here. I'm still a full-time student and I, I've, like I was always a straight-A student. I've never gotten A-minus in my life. I work my ass off with everything I do, right? And like, I don't have a car. Like, I'm like, I'm in the middle of no, like I have nobody who believes me, right? And every doctor I go to is just like, you're anorexic, you just need to eat some food. I'm like, oh my God. Like, you guys are crazy. And so I, and I walk in there and I'm doing all this research, like, for myself, by myself and I bring all my lab work and all my tests and I bring in all my piles of research and studies I've read and like, do you think I have this? Can you test me for that? I want you to run this test on me and doctors get intimidated. Like, they don't like it. Or like, I'm like, have you thought of this? And I'll see their face and you can tell. They're like, I didn't think of that, but that's probably a good idea. Are you quizzing me? Yeah. You can tell, I can tell. It's like, they're like, oh, you know. And they're like, no, you don't have that. I'm like, no, but I might. You just don't want to admit that I just came up with a better idea than you. You know, like, yeah, pretty much. Like, so there was just a lot of that going on and it was hard for me at the time. I mean, looking back, I'm just bitter about it because, you know, at the time, I want to believe that these doctors are the experts. Like, they're supposed to help me. But I went in there every time and I felt like, why do I know more than you? Why are you a GI and you don't know what SIBO is? Like, are you kidding? Like, you know, shit like that. Like, I was just so frustrated. And so, and I'm freaking out now because it's getting like, they made me interview to go to a treatment center. They were gonna send me to Arizona for anorexia. And I'm freaking out because I'm like, give me a good GI. Like, like, I'm eating food. You know, I had to bring people with me to appointments to vouch for me that I was eating. Like, that wasn't an issue. I wasn't afraid to eat food. And- God, how frustrating that had to been. That had been so frustrating. Yeah, and what was hard, it was like, even the people who were vouching for me just still didn't understand it. I mean, I didn't understand it. And so I could tell it was kind of like, I mean, I know my parents are, my parents didn't know what to think of me. And it caused a lot of problems in my relationships with pretty much everybody. Like- Right, I bet a lot of people thought you were lying and probably throwing up behind closed doors and bullshitting them and stuff like that because no one had answers. Doctors were telling you it's anorexia. I'm sure they're all believing the professionals too. So, what a toll it probably took on your family and your friends and everybody else too with you. Yeah, I lost almost every relationship- Wow. In my life. Wow. And so I felt very isolated. Like the only person, the main person that I felt like was there for me was my therapist. And like at this point, my nutritionist. Because I found a nutritionist, it took me a long time to find a nutritionist who like listened to me and believed me and clicked with me. And like she was amazing. But she was the one who like sat me down and she was like, you have to understand that like, there's so much stress on your heart. She's like, if you don't stop working out, like you could have a heart attack. And like you could die. And like when she just like looked at me and said that I was like, holy shit. No one's like sat me down and told me like, you can die. Like no one said that to me, you know? And like that kicked me in the ass. And I went home and I cried and I called the few friends I had laughed and I tried to like argue my way out of it. I was like, she told me I can't work out anymore but like working out is my only stress reliever. It's the only thing that makes me happy. And I tried to like give skin. My friends were all like, I think you should listen to her. You know, like, and then after that I was like, okay. And I stopped and it was really hard. And at first it turned into like, let me see how many calf raises I can do while I'm brushing my teeth. Like, you know, like, yeah, like trying to cheat it. And it took some time but like that's where my therapist helped me. And I gave up. And I think that that was the most important thing for me to do. And I realized, I mean, I know I stopped working out completely and guess what? I didn't get fat. Like, well, the issue was I mean, I stopped working out and I ate even more food. And I mean, at this point I'm eating probably like 78,000 calories a day. What? And I'm dropping weight. Whoa, whoa, I did not. And this is crazy. Yeah. You were eating that no fucking way. No way. Did you already know? Like what? Am I jumping the gun here? I mean, excuse me. I don't know. You were eating 7,000 calories and you were, holy. Wow. That would have just, that would have been my fucking weight. That would have been my fucking weight. You know, kind of knowing your personality where you're like, I'm gonna determine to do something. I could see that. What? Like that I was eating that much? I could see that you're like, I'm gonna reverse this. So I'm gonna push. Well, it wasn't even like, yeah, but I also was fucking hungry. I was so hungry. Like, I mean, when you're 70 pounds and you've been like training. Yeah, your body's obviously, you're not absorbing everything. And you're not getting all the nutrients. So it's still starving. Yeah. And I'm like, so I was starving and I wasn't absorbing it. And so this was when, and this is when I'm like really freaking the fuck out. Like something's going on. Big time. I'm like, I'm laying in bed all day. Like I'm doing nothing. Like, and I'm dropping weight. Like, because I dropped to like, and at this point, every pound is mattering. And I also got sent to this psychiatrist who basically was like, you're anorexic and you're lying. And it's unethical for any doctor to treat you. So I got cut off from every other doctor. I got cut off from my therapist, from my GI, my endocrinologist. I got cut off from everybody and they weren't allowed to communicate with me or treat me until I passed these tests that would determine like, if my tests were at a certain level, I had to be sent to this treatment center in Arizona. And I was like, oh my fucking god. Like, and so that was horrible. So how did you, okay, we'll keep going. Cause I'm really perplexed on that. I know I can't let you just drop, I just can't leave you off the cliffhangers. Like every five minutes. You dropped the five to seven K calorie to like fucking a half hour into the story. I want to know what happened. I mean, I can't, I, if you came to me when I was in my early 20s and you said, I would have said the same thing too. I'm like, this, this bitch is lying. She's fucking going behind. She's, she's running around the corner, sticking her finger down her throat and throwing it. There's no way she's consuming five to 7,000 calories a day. And she's 75 pounds. I wouldn't believe it. Well, it's hard for me. I mean, the whole thing's hard for me cause I still don't fully understand it. And I mean, we'll get into this, what I'm dealing with now. It's like, I still have things now. But like, I mean, and during, it's hard for me also to tell the story because you have to understand when you're that thin. Like, I mean, I couldn't think. Like my cognitive function was gone. Like people don't talk about that enough. Like I was, I felt stupid. Like I would forget what I said the sentence before. People would ask me a question and I was like, what did you just say? And that was a huge blow to my self confidence because my identifier, my whole life was, I was a smart one and I lost that too. So at this point, I'm like, I fucking have nothing. I have no friends. I cannot, like my body is withering away. Like I didn't know, you know, like my family, I felt very abandoned by my family. I just, I didn't know what the fuck to do. And at this point I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna die. Like I literally thought I was gonna die. So I took a quarter off school, which was a huge deal for me. Like to me that was like failure. Like that was failure. And I was so embarrassed and I didn't do that by choice. Like thankfully I passed the heart test. So my heart rate was high enough so I could see my therapist again. And the thing was that she, you know, she told me she's like, you know, I feel horrible because I was just kind of not saying anything but I should have stopped them because she knew that I wasn't anorexic. But she was like, but she told me, she was like, you know, for a long time I couldn't tell you that she was like, I wanted to believe you. But like I was also like, I didn't get it. So I thought maybe you were still lying. Like, like nobody believed me. Or maybe lying to yourself so much that you believe. Yeah, that's what would be going through my head. Yeah, I'd be thinking she's so convinced but she doesn't even know. Yeah. And I mean, thankfully, I mean, that's the nice thing about like having roommates, you know, like I mean, like at college it's like, I mean, there's no way I was gonna be hiding that from my roommate. So that was like my one saving grace. Like my roommate, like who's like my best friend. Like, I mean, she knew. And I was like, okay, I'm not psychotic. And at this point I realized like, I had to hand over a lot of the decisions to other people because I knew I was like, I'm not in a state of mind to be making these decisions. Which is why the school thing for me, I was like, I told my therapist, I was like, you just need to decide for me because like I can't make smart decisions right now. Cause I couldn't trust myself but I also knew I wasn't like lying. But I knew that like, I couldn't trust myself in terms of like, I mean, you know that I hustle. You know, and so I was like, doing school is not gonna stress me out more. You couldn't trust that. Yeah. And also this whole issue of like not, still not understanding the effects of stress on health. Which is, you know, nobody wants to admit that but it's like, you can't heal when you're stressed out. No, it's part of health. Yeah, like, right? But I didn't, I was like, what's the difference between me laying on my bed doing homework and me just laying on my bed doing nothing? Like besides me getting a quarter behind in my life. Cause at this point I'm desperate to get the fuck out of UCLA. Hated, I hated school. Like, and it was just this huge fight and whatever. They told me, you can't go back to school. I tried to wiggle my way out of it, walked to the center, tried to, I literally was like gonna pay full tuition to take a two unit class cause I just would not give up the idea of going to school. I didn't, I didn't like, I was so worried about how people would judge me. Like for taking a quarter off school, which is so stupid. I'm like, I look back, I'm like, shit, I should have taken a year off. I should have quit. Well, looking back, I should have dropped out. Like honestly. Well, you, you already said it. You identified with that. You're the smart girl. You know, you got the grades to get into a school like UCLA, you're kicking ass while you're there. Superstitious, yeah. I mean, that's- Your greatest strength. Your greatest weakness. Right, you identify with that. So I could totally understand why that would be a struggle to let it go, you know? Yeah, so I took the quarter off, ended up being like the best thing ever, right? But slowly started, I mean, I was like, okay, if I told myself I'm taking this quarter off, I'm gonna figure this shit out by the end of this quarter cause I'm going back to school in winter. So literally eight to five every day at doctors for 10 weeks. This is what I'm doing. Getting all these random tests run. Finally, I mean, my GI, so much fighting with him, whatever. But he went listening to me. I was telling him for weeks that I had SIBO. It was a big fight. Then I finally convinced him to let me take a test. And then it came back negative. It was this huge ordeal and it came back negative and I was pissed cause I'm like, I know I have it. And then I start arguing about, you know, the accuracy, the validity of these tests. He's like, no, blah, blah, blah. He's like, you know, SIBO, we don't even know if it's real. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm dealing with this. It was this huge thing, but he gave me the antibiotics. I was like, just give me the fucking antibiotics. Gives me them, I take them, and something happened. Like, didn't fix me, but at least like I pooped. Like, and I was like, okay, that did something. Like something's going on. And I was like, I want another round because I know a lot of people need two rounds. And at this point, he had gotten so, basically all of my doctors hated me because I'm that girl who's calling every day. Like, are my test results in? Like, I wouldn't have tested for this. You wore them down. Everybody hated me. Yeah, like, let alone the fact that when I'm in the room, I'm questioning them and asking too many questions. Well, God, it feels like life or death for you at this point. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't imagine your size. So that's like relative to me eating 10 to 12,000 calories every day. If I saw myself dwindle down to 100, I would fucking freak out. I'd be like, I have cancer. And then if I was, and then I'm going to see doctors and they're all telling me I have anorexia and I'm like, no motherfucker, I'm eating 10. I would be, I would be scared to death. Yeah, I was like, where is it going? I literally thought there was a hole in my intestine. Like, I was so pissed when the colonoscopy, nothing came back. I was kind of like, and the colonoscopy didn't even work because I like, they made me drink that stuff and nothing happened. Oh, you're supposed to like, it's like liquid drain out. And you should be pooping right away. My parents were like, my mom would literally, my parents would come down and cook enough food for like three small villages and they'd like freeze it for me so I'd have it for the week. And like, they would see what I was eating and like, my dad, I would hear my parents talk about me. He's like, how is she eating so much food? I don't get where it's going. And they would argue about it, you know? And like, I'm like, I don't know either. And then nobody knew like what to do with me and I was still getting blamed. Like, I get sad, like my dad sat me down. He's just starts crying and he's like, you need to gain weight. And I'm like, what the fuck do you think I'm trying to do? I'm like, are you kidding? I'm like, you're the one who just cooked me five pounds of steak and I just ate it, I'm putting it in. And he's like, and he starts crying. He's like, I know, but like, you need to gain weight. I'm like, oh my fucking God. I'm like, I mean, like, I don't know what else to do. Like, you think you're freaking out? Like, how do you think it feels to be me right now? When like, I'm eating more calories and now I dropped down to 73 pounds and I have 74 last week, like it doesn't make sense. Like, I was doing everything I could to fight for myself when no one else was, like no one else was. And like, God, I'm so pissed. Like, anyways, so my GI basically just ghosted me when I was like, I want round two of antibiotics. Just ignored you. He just fucking ghosted me. So hard. Like, they wouldn't answer my calls. One time I, like they picked up and she fucking hang up. She hung up on me. I recognize that voice. They hated me. I'm sorry I was annoying, but I'm like also like, if I'm not annoying right now, I will die soon. Right, right. God, it was a disaster. Anyways, at this point, I was like back to my food, back to my research. The only people that were still in my corner were my nutritionists and my therapist. And so I finally convinced my nutritionist. You know, I brought her all this stuff on AIP and like, you know, Crohn's disease and colitis and the effects of grains and gluten. And she finally let me go paleo, which is like what I wanted to do. Because at this point, okay, so after my carb fear, sorry, rewind, I forget. So after the orthorexia carb fear, I mean, I had to just start eating carbs. But the problem was I had really severe reactions. So I would faint every time I ate a carbohydrate. I would literally, I remember eating a fucking cube of butternut squash and I passed out. And I was like, what the hell? So obviously this made me even more afraid of it. Right, I'm like, I'm passing out my mini carbs. Like, my body doesn't want it. But it was basically just like my body had like, I didn't know how to metabolize. It didn't know what to do with it, right? So I had to slowly build it up. Like it took a long time. And then they were like, you need to eat quinoa and grains and rice and like gums and lentils and I fucking hated it. And I was like, oh God, and I felt like shit. But I was like, okay, I'll do this cause I gotta recover. At this point, I had realized like, I need to do what, like food is a prescription. Like I don't care if I like it or if I don't. This is what I'm eating. Just gonna do what they tell me. Yeah, I'm just gonna do it cause I don't want to die. Like I don't want to die. Like sorry, worked too hard. Nah, at this point. Like, so I'm eating this stuff and I finally convinced my nutritionist. I'm like, just let me, I'm like, I'm still eating carbs. I'm just not gonna eat the grains. I'm not gonna eat the legumes. Like just let me try it. And she finally was like, okay. And about a week or two of that, I put on some weight and I was like, fuck yeah. So that was kind of what like triggered me to, like that's what started healing my gut at the end of the day. Getting rid of those foods that were obviously hurting me and then very slowly I was putting on more weight. Did you ever figure out why you had an inability to gain? No, I mean at this point. It's like a mystery. It's like a severe malabsorption thing. Although at this point, I mean, I'm convinced that this, I'm waiting on test results right now that I got a parasite when I had that fro-yo and that kind of stuck with me the whole way. But I put on weight and that's basically what allowed me to put on weight and I got to a weight where I was like, I was fine. Like I was a normal person, but like I still, I was like, I could still use another 10, 15, 20 pounds. And I reached kind of a plateau and then I found a functional medicine doctor in LA through my boss at the time. I mean, during this time, I had been doing so much more research and this is when I got really into blogs and... Were you sharing the story that this whole process or was it after the fact? It was more after the fact because my blog started off as like a beauty blog. Like I didn't, this had nothing to do with it. Like, and then I realized like, I know all this information I should, I should start putting it out there. And I kind of started to, but I was also embarrassed to at first. Right, right. It takes a lot of courage. Yeah, it was a slow thing, but I started working. I was really passionate. I was more so passionate about the eating disorder side of things. So I talked more about like my orthorexia, my exercise addiction, like gaining weight. And that's how I found my boss, Jordan, who wrote the book, Breaking Vegan and she was like a big face in the ortho, like talking about orthorexia and the eating disorder community. And so I went, met her, I became her intern and she was really great and hooked me up with her functional medicine doctor. And this was the first time I had an experience with a functional medicine doctor and somebody who practiced integrative medicine and took a holistic approach and didn't look, I mean, like I was a psycho. Like he was, I told him my whole story and he was like, yeah, that makes total sense. He's like, I totally think you have SIBO. I totally think they should be eating paleo. You're not crazy. Like you're doing everything right. And he was the first person who was receptive to my ideas and- You finally feel like validation. Yeah, yeah. And I was, I wanted him to tell everybody in my life, like she's not crazy, you know? And he wasn't threatened by when I asked questions. He just answered them. He's like, oh yeah, good idea, I'll look into that. You know, like something, you know? And I was like, thank God, like it was a collaboration, not just somebody sitting there trying to tell me what to do and tell me I was an anorexic and lying. Now you're gaining weight still at this point because now you're looking at you, you look like a healthy young lady. Yeah, so I had, I mean, I was like, I was like a fine weight, but I had reached kind of like a plateau. Like I wanted another like 10, 15 pounds. Like I was like 105 and I looked fine, but like I just wanted more. Like, and at this point I'm like, I know I'm like, my hormones are fucked. Like I need more weight. Like, you know, like, and at this point I was also on the pill and I was so scared of what my period would actually be like, is it there, you know? I never lost my period that whole time because I was on the pill, right? Like when you're 70 pounds, you probably wouldn't have your period, but you know, those nice fake hormones, but whatever. So he tested, he gave me just so many tests and I retested for SIBO as positive. I found out I had a bunch of other bacterial overgrowth. So we treated those, you know, did, you know, different healing diets, cerebells, antibiotics, blah, blah, blah, did the whole thing. And after that I felt better than ever. I was finally pooping. I was like, fuck yeah. Like, it was crazy. My bloating went away. I felt really good for a while. And then a few months later, some of my symptoms started to come back and it's never been like how it used to be, but I was like not, like my bowels were off. I was getting bloated more. And I was like, I want perfection at this point. Like. You're free. You're free to go and back. Yeah, so then I started doing more tests and things and found out I had Candida again and a few more bacterial overgrowth. And sort of since then, well, this is the issue now is like, I've had this mysterious case of Candida for almost a year now. It's not going away. And so they're trying to figure out what's going on and so I'm trying to get to the deeper root of things. And so right now I'm waiting on my parasite test results. Yeah, because I found out, I mean, I had been, I have asked, I've taken so many parasite tests before. Obviously that was like one of the first things I've always asked, but I'm just finding out now that the test, the tests I've always been given aren't the most comprehensive. They're hard to catch. They're hard. They're hard. And I've only ever taken like a one day stool test for that. Like, and you can't do one day, right? So I feel like this is the first legit test, but my, but honestly, even if it comes back negative, I'm putting myself in a parasite protocol. It's not like you're in a different part of the country too that you can identify. Well, oh, I forgot this. Oh, there's more. Oh, 7,000 calories I was eating by the way. I was in Thailand. So part of like, I went to Spain for two weeks. That quarter I took off school. Damn, you know what? You just had like the fucking perfect storm. It's like, you got everything. You got everything that you got struck by Zeus. I thought there was a parasite in that fro-yell for sure. Like, honestly, that thing triggered, like that was, that was bizarre. Like, I don't know anybody that was weird, but I went to, I ended up going to Spain. That was my reward for hitting 95 pounds. Woo-hoo, you guys are going to Spain? Yeah, so I went to Spain and I visited my friend who was studying abroad. And that was the, you're gonna love this. That was the one week in my life. My digestion was fucking perfect. Wow. Hmm, yeah. Stress. Thanks, thanks food industry. Right? Like, you know, it was crazy to me, but there was one day, like everything was great. And it was like the second to last day I was there. And it was like the most American meal. We went to a smoothie shop. And like I got like a, like such an LA smoothie. Like it was the most inauthentic thing, right? The rest of the week I had been just eating like pork and vegetables and lamb, right? And I got this smoothie and I come home and I was just, I mean, I got sick, like for like a solid day and a half. I was not. There's probably a combination of like Sal kind of quietly said was the you're on vacation, it's a reward thing. So you're probably in a happy place, vacationing, your stress levels are probably lower. Plus you're eating these whole natural foods. It was probably a combination. It is so hard to identify. And this is again, part of the problem is we try to separate the psychosomatic from the physical, from the whatever. We try to separate everything else and say what is causing the problem when it's all the same. It all doesn't, look, I tell you, I had a client who had a physical injury that caused such trauma to them because it prevented them from doing the things that they loved, it prevented them from working that after they got healed, after the surgery was done, after they did the rehab and the function is good, they still felt pain. Yeah, the pain is still there. It was, and the pain caused them to move a particular way which then caused the physical part to happen as well. And it took real work on the, am I attached to this pain? Am I afraid of it because of what it did to me? And when this person connected the dots, it just vanished. It's very difficult to separate all stuff. It's all the same. I mean, I forgot the name of the disease. But I mean, there's a disease that's literally like, people will feel like crazy pain in their legs all the time, they can't walk. People will be paralyzed when it's in their heads. And doctors, it's this whole debate. And then people are like, well, it's not real. I'm like, well, that's still real. I mean, I think, I don't care if it's like, if it's happening and you're feeling this, it's real. You know what one of the number one off the label prescriptions for antidepressant drugs is for? Pain that cannot be found with MRIs or X-rays or whatever. So people go to the doctor with back pain, nothing's wrong with you. They can't figure out what's going on. Sometimes they'll give them antidepressant and the pain will go away. Yeah, cause they know it'll just make you feel better. It'll make you feel better. And I'm not advocating for the use of SSRIs for pain, but that just highlights that they're, number one, it doesn't matter if you feel it, you feel it. That really doesn't matter. It's still, yeah, it's still real, it still exists. It just might be mentally driven. Well, I mean, that goes back to what I was doing with my GIs. I'm like, there's something wrong with my gut. Like, and you're telling me, well, the colonoscopy is clear, endoscopy is clear. You don't have celiac disease cause the blood test says no, I'm not gonna get into that, but like, you know, and I'm like, I don't care what these tests say, like there's something wrong. This is something, something's happening. Yeah, and even the SIBO thing, like, you know, he's like, you don't have SIBO tested negative. I'm like, there's something there. Like, frick it, like fix it. After you went through and you, cause you shared this story on your podcast, right? Yeah. How many, how many girls reached out to you that shared a similar story or? Oh, so many. And that's what scares me. It's like my story. You know, when I put out my story, people are like, you have such an incredible story. I'm like, my story is not that unique. People just aren't talking about it. Like, I like, or even if you don't relate to every single thing that happened, like there's something in there that every woman has dealt with. Well, that's what I believe everybody has dealt with something that you, that you just went through all of it and an extreme level of all of it. It's like you have something mysterious, something's wrong with me. I can't figure out what's going on. And either I accept it and like, this is just the way it's going to be now. You know, that's chronic pain, chronic illness, you know, in modern societies, we don't really have issues with acute illness anymore. I mean, we still do, but not, not nearly like the problems we have with chronic illness where we have no, we have no solution. Now, now looking back at all this, I mean, it's, what you went through was incredibly challenging. As you're telling me, I'm feeling what you're feeling as you're telling the story. And I can't imagine having gone through that at your age by myself, living on my own. Right. But do you ever look back, and I don't know if I said this on the podcast or when we had the technical difficulty, but I don't wanna say it again. Like, do you ever look back and think to yourself, this was a total gift because without all of this shit that I've gone through, without all of these challenges, I wouldn't have the knowledge that I have. I wouldn't have the passion that I have for helping people. I wouldn't have been shown or given the gift of knowing what my destiny is or the direction I need to go. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like blessed that it happened because I mean, part of why I was so depressed and lost before was like, I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do. And like, nothing sounded good to me. I felt like I was just trying to like, there's this pressure on people in college and even in high school. Like, what are you gonna do with your life? You know, and I was like, nothing sounds good. And I came out of this experience. I'm like, this is what I'm doing. Like, this is what I'm passionate about. And like, you know, you ask, you know, people don't, they're like, I don't get how you do everything you do. I'm like, I love everything I do. Like, I am doing what I wanna do forever right now. And I'm 22, I'm right out of college and I'm doing it already. So yeah, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do the hell out of it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not gonna waste time. I'm not gonna waste time. Like, there's no, there's no time to waste. This is exactly what we identified when we met you. This is exactly what we felt because you can tell when you meet someone, I mean, I know I can. I've hired lots of people that have worked for me and very few people that I ever met where I feel like I can feel the purpose. I've met a lot of good people. I've worked with a lot of good people. People who worked hard, people who were successful, but it's rare where you meet someone, you talk with them, you hang out with them and you leave and you go, that person has purpose that know what they need to do. That's greater than themselves, greater than money, greater than, I mean, when we asked you, we sat down with you and we started talking business before the podcast came on. We're asking you all these questions about, because you've got your two podcasts, your blog, you've got all these people following you and we're asking like, is this how you may earn your money? Is this how you and you're like, we'll know. And that's not shocking because you're doing it because of, it's your purpose. Yeah, and I think that's another sad thing as I think too many people now, they won't go, even people who know what their purpose is, they won't go after it, they won't do it. And I get so much pushback now, one more person asked me, when are you gonna get a real job? Well, you know what? My job is real, just because you're too scared to leave your nine to five and do something that you actually like doesn't mean I have to do that. I would rather hustle hard and do what I love than sit there and hate my life and just follow the status quo and like nothing great ever happened from somebody who just did what everybody else was doing. Like you're not gonna get anywhere, just doing the same shit that everybody else is doing. I think it was a gift what you went through because for you to know that at your age is rare. Oh yeah, force you into a level of awareness that the average 20 year old won't even experience until they're probably 30. Yeah, you did 30 years of life school in like two years. Hyper educated now. I think also it really helped me in terms of relationships in my life, like I do not tolerate bullshit. Like I would rather have no friends than like friends who are fake friends and there are so many people I saw during that experience who was there for me and who bounced and the people who bounced it's like I don't have time for you. Like, you know, I don't, and at this point all of my close friends now we connect on such a deeper level because we have similar experiences. Like any aspect of that story that we connect on versus I realized pretty much every friendship I had before that was just based on circumstance. You know, people I lived near I went to school with, you know. It was comfortable. Yeah, especially in college people are, so many people are just, you're just friends because you're going to parties together because you're in the same dorm. Proximity, yeah. Yeah, you know, and like people get so confused when they graduate and they're like, I have no friends anymore, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, that's because they weren't real friends and the only thing you guys talked about was who hooked up with Johnny last night. Like you don't connect on anything real or anything deep, you know? Like, so it's. Do you think that's more common now than before? Or is that just, is that a norm for all college students? Do you think that we're becoming more disconnected with our relationships? Do you think so? Absolutely. Yeah, I think people are just, I mean people don't sit there and talk to each other. I get so irritated whenever I try and hang out with my friends and they're just on their phone. I'm like, I'm literally physically, and I get pissed because I'm like, you have no excuse. I live so much of my life on the internet and like when I'm hanging out with somebody, like if I'm having lunch with you and I haven't seen you in six months, my phone is not, I'm not on my phone. Like it's away. Like I'm trying to talk to you. So, and you, you don't even have, you don't have an Instagram with people following you. No one cares what you're doing. Like you better, you better put that shit away. Focus on me. Like I feel like disrespected and I people, when people hang out, they're just all on their phones. All they're talking about is who's getting the alcohol and when are we going out tomorrow? And I'm just like, all right. So are all your friends as old as we are then? No, no, they're younger. No, okay. I have like three or four close friends who are my age, but they've all gone through things like me, you know? And most of my friends are like late 20s, I would say early 30s. My issues, all my friends are married. So whenever anyone to hang out with, cause they always want to hang out with their husbands. Yeah, lame. Those lame husbands. Yeah. Nourish people. So who do you, who are you talking to on your podcast? Like who are you trying to reach out to? What's your, who's your message for? Like me three years ago. I mean really like this younger generation of women, like you're 16 to 30 and you're getting these messages and you're dealing with these things and you're told to grow a liar or you're almost pushed into an eating disorder. I think so many of us are just almost forced into it with what we see on media. And also just kind of growing up with my job. It's like, I think a lot of women would almost be ashamed to kind of do whatever they want and not give a shit about people. And I'm very, I'm very polarizing. Like there are a lot of people who really, who really hate me. Really? Yeah, because I really speak my mind and I'm really blunt and I mean. You're doing something right. I appreciate you later though. Yeah, I mean, I'm like trying to teach you a lesson. You know, but it's like. People don't want to accept her at all. Yeah, you know, but it's like the same trait that people hate me for, other people love me for. And I'm like, yeah, don't be afraid to like say what you want. Like I think as a woman, so many of us are taught like that's not okay. Like so many times in my life, I've said the same thing that I know if a man said it, no one would think twice. You know, if I say it, I'm a bitch. If I say it, like I've gone too far. Like if he says it, hell yeah. Like, you know? And so I just want to empower women. You know what? So I experienced that relatively recently. So my daughter is, she's eight and she loves her friends. They play together, but she can also, she's also a little bit of a leader and she can be quite assertive, right? Yeah, imagine that. And I heard somebody refer to her as bossy. This is a term. That's a term you'll never hear. You'll never hear a little boy be called bossy. You'll hear a little boy be called assertive, but not bossy. And I heard it for the first time and I smiled and I thought to myself, I'm doing something fucking right. She's gonna be fine. And that's what you're saying is absolutely true. There's definitely things, and there's things on the other side too for boys too. Like, you know, if you're a guy, you can't. Right, you can't cry or you can't talk about your emotion. I was at a party. I was at a party with my girlfriend the other day and I am like, I love kids. Love kids, especially babies. I can't help it. I love baby. If I see a baby, then I'm gonna figure out a way to hold. I'm gonna figure out a way to hold that baby. Here I come. I'm the guy at the party. You're a creep. Exactly. You're at the park. Give it to the baby. Exactly, yes. So I'm at these parties and I'm like, I'm trying to figure out a way to make people feel comfortable so I can hold your baby for the party. And it's funny because I have this conversation with people and I said, you know, because everybody's like, because I'm a guy, right? So everybody's like, oh my God, he loves kids. This is so wonderful. He's so, and I'm like, you're only saying that because I'm a guy. And I said, this is actually, it's in public, if I see a baby and I wanna comment on how cute someone's baby is or say something. I gotta be careful because I'm a man and they're gonna think I'm some fucking weirdo. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I have another woman came over and did that. I remember apologizing for like, swatting like a wasp off of this little girl's head because I saw it there and I like swatted it off and I looked at the mom and I go, sorry, there was a wasp right there. She's like, no, no, no. She's like, no, thank you, you know? But I felt like guilty, you know? It was weird, but it's like the thing. You wanna be conscious of that. It's true. It's absolutely true. It goes both ways. So you have haters too. What do they hate on you for just for? Well, you do a lot of what we do. Yeah, you do a lot of what we do. It's a wide variety. You expose, I mean, right before we got on air and maybe we go this direction, you were sharing with us some of these names, big name Instagram girls that are now selling workout programs online with no real credentials or experience. They've just basically got themselves in shape following another program and now they're basically multi-level marketing style. I don't have an issue with people who don't have credentials. Right, right. No, you're right. The big thing I'm passionate about is like this whole idea that people need credentials to know shit because I'm sorry, when I was 19, I knew more than pretty much every doctor I was in. Well, you saw, yeah, your own experience. Like, sorry. So this is, and some of the people I admire most in the health community and I think they're the smartest people. Yeah, like, they're not doctors so I'm so sick of this bullshit. Like, well, you're not a doctor. What do you know? Right. Like, okay, you can take your doctor's advice and we'll see how far you get, but that's all right. You know, unless you have a broken leg, but whatever. I have an issue with people just like putting bullshit out. Like, anybody, whether or not you're a doctor, if you're putting bullshit out or like, I don't, you know what I mean. Sure, I'm impressed. And feeding into the overtraining line. Right, yeah. Because it's personal. Because you want to help. Yeah, yeah. It's personal. How did you, I don't know, I think we asked you this, well, how did you find our show where you just on the podcast? Ben Rainfield. Oh, okay. Oh, really? Of course you liked it. I heard you guys on his and then I started listening to you and then the rest is still. Were you already listening to him consistently or did you just happen to come across that episode? No, I was listening to him consistently. Oh, okay. And then you was wrong. Because, you know, I just like dream of being a biohacker. So, he's great. So then, yeah, I heard you guys and I really liked you. And then I just started listening to you. Do you still listen to Ben? And, yeah, I do. Cool. Not every episode, but a lot. Every episode of Mind Pump. Yeah. No. No. You guys like, it's too much. What's up, Ben? It's too much. We love you, Ben. Yeah. So, and then I was listening to, I don't remember which episode, but you guys were talking about social media and messages being sent to young women on an episode and I was listening to it and I actually was listening to it. I was in the shower where I was listening and then I literally was like, I gotta get these guys on my podcast. Go out of the shower, go out of the dress and I ran over to my computer and I emailed, your email and I was like, if this works? Like God bless America. But yeah, and then I emailed and then I was so surprised I got an email back and I was freaking the fuck out. That's so cool. And I was so irritated because no one, no one else knew who you were. Like none of my friends, why no one would be like, you guys, do you know what just happened? Like no one could. No one thought it was cool, right? Yeah, no one thought it was cool. I just got on Mind Pump's code in my house. Yeah, I was like, cool, who's that? Yeah, exactly, everybody. And I was like, shit. But now that you've been on my podcast, now people know how cool you are, so now they get excited. Yeah, I got a message from my cousin who I was spending a lot of time with, probably about four or five years ago and he's off doing his own business. And I kind of shared with him before this all started, like the ultimate direction of this. And so he's always kind of known about it and he sent me a message. This is just literally last night and he's like, man, it's so crazy how much Mind Pump is exploding. He's all, and I said to him, what do you mean? And he's like, oh, I know it's so big now that there was people that I used to tell about it, he said, but now people come to me bragging about the show, telling me I need to listen, not realizing that you're my cousin. And he's like, that's crazy that it's come full circle like that where random people are organically finding and stuff too. At some point, the right message gets out and then the right message is the one that... It takes time. It resonates, it resonates. And so we're seeing people like yourself, like here you are, you started podcasts, had no experience podcasting, had no idea what you were doing like we did when we first started and you have a relatively successful podcast. You're shining beacon. You have a hope. You actually more successful. I'm surprised you didn't turn that into like a story. I almost did. I almost did. It's like a new hope. It's like a lightsaber. Your podcast is more successful than like 95% of the podcasts out there. There's a lot of podcasts that are out there and you're doing decently. Well, you have a good message. It's resonating with people, people need to hear. I hope so. I mean, I just... I want people to stop dealing with it when it comes. Like, and that's why I'm so interested in this younger age group. Like, I wonder like, what do you think about for your daughter? Like, what are you worried about? Oh, all the things we talk about. All the things we talk about. And it's like, how are we gonna combat this? And I look at these younger girls and I remember how I felt when I was 9, 10, 11, 12. And like, it's just all accelerated even more, you know, especially with technology and I'm worried because I'm like, I'm feeling this way. You know, when I'm 19, 20 and I felt, I remember how I felt when I was 12. God, no, I mean, it scares a shit out of me. Well, the exciting part and what's unique and different is that we have this medium now that didn't really exist 10 years ago. That's right. Now they can find podcast like yours. Could you imagine Mind Pump being around when you were going through that process but back up, you know, at 17 years old you've tripped on Mind Pump and you've already been listening for like, I'm sure stuff that we've talked about already in the show would have already led you in the direct, for sure you would have been talking to Dr. Roussio or, you know, or Chris Kresser or somebody else that we've had on the show. If you, I mean, you would have already been all over that because we've talked about so. Also, we gotta think that this young generation that's coming up. Well, the issue, what's hard though is that now it's like, we're just so over saturated. Right, right. And my message is so, for me saying my message, there's 20,000 other people with blogs putting bullshit out there. That's true. But you know what, Christina? It's all competing. I'll tell you what, your story is not a tragic one. Your story is a success story. As what you went through and the challenges you went through, you had the resources, the ability to do your own research, which if we just went back 30 years with those same symptoms, you would have been dead. Oh, I know. You would have died. Well, actually no, but would I have even gotten to it in the first place? That's a good point. That's a good point. But you had the ability to research and read. You yourself are obviously made of different stuff. You're very determined and focused and you learned and you're intelligent. And it's a success story. You gotta look at it that way. I think, again, your story comes out so passionate because you lived it. And it sucks to say that, I look, I went through my own shit and I know. And I look back and I'm like, you know what? Had I not done that, I'd still be that meathead trainer. You know, 100%. Yeah, being resilient to all that stuff too. It's helped, now you can be very clear what your message is and you can cut through not trying to have the niceties attached to that. You can actually speak to people. There's also empathy. When you have a young girl come to you and say to you about how they feel and how no one's listening to me, nobody understands me. Rather than you, rather than the average person be like, well, maybe you're great, whatever. You empathetic. Yeah, no. I think that it helps me so much with health coaching now as a nutritionist. I mean, people who work with me, they tell me, I picked you because they always say, you know, even though you're young, I picked you because you get it. And no one else gets it. I'm like, yeah, I get it. And at the end of the day, I mean, for me, in my own experience, that was what was most important to me, I'm like, I don't need somebody who has all the answers because no one's gonna have all the answers. But I need somebody who gets me you know, and who is gonna help me and like lead me and like, I mean, I get it. You know, I lived through a lot of this similar things to what most of my clients are. Now, off air, we were talking about your relationship with your parents and I was alluding to my relationship with my parents and I know, and it took me till I was like 30 years old before I really started to piece this together that, you know, it was really, it was rough. It was off and on. I'm good with my parents. I'm not so good with my parents. And what I found out was I held on to a lot of animosity because of what I went through. And so it would be very easy for them to trigger me. They said something, right? Like, do you find that you have a similar relationship with your parents? Like they can't talk about health. They can't talk about fitness. They can't talk about anything like that probably around you. Does it trigger you and what's your relationship like with them now? I think there's a lot of resentment on both sides. I try not to talk about, it's not really with the health or fitness stuff, but I don't like to talk about my job really with my family because it just turns into, well, when are you gonna get a real job? I don't understand what you're doing. It doesn't make sense. If I get, this is the question, I didn't understand this question. When are you gonna get a job? Oh no, why can't you get a job in the industry? Like, what industry? What does that even mean? Yeah, like, what is the industry? You know, a job in the industry. Like, I'm like, what fucking industry? Like a job in the industry, I understand. Like, I'm like, I don't even, it's like this whole thing that nobody really knows what I'm doing. You know, my extended family literally has no idea. I'm pretty sure they just think I'm sitting in Los Angeles like laying on the beach doing nothing. Don't trip on that shit. People still think shame's shit about us. Yeah, and I'm like, okay. I mean, it's hard, they didn't know, they didn't know what to do with me then. And I resented them a lot. They resented me a lot because they didn't understand. They thought I was lying. And they also, I mean, they cut me off from the rest of my family. I mean, during that time, I had told my parents I was so stressed out and I was like, this stress, I cannot deal with this stress for like my heart, for my health. And I told my parents, do not contact me. I will contact you when I'm ready. Like, and that made them fucking mad. So they told my whole extended family, like me and my uncles, my cousins, do not contact Christina. So I was just cut off from everybody in my life who I was close to. And I didn't know that my parents told everybody not to talk to me. So I thought everybody just bounced. Like I thought everybody just, and I was like, like I'm, and so I felt all this was something because I thought everybody, you see me, you see me withering away and you're just ignoring it. Like, because this is the thing though that pisses me off. If I was anorexic, most people who are anorexic are not going to be like, I really want to get treat, I really want to be in treatment. Like, like, you kind of have to have somebody take responsibility, like you need to go get help. You have to have somebody kick you when they ask like, you're doing this, I'm making this decision. And I'm like, so if I was anorexic, I probably wouldn't have been fighting for myself. And I would have just died probably because I wouldn't have stopped. Do you find, because you've gone through this like over addiction to exercise, orthorexia where everything had to be super clean with food, the fear with carbs. Do you, have you found a deeper root to that? Does it feel like it's just trading one for the other? Are you still dealing with anything like that? Or do you have a tendency for that? I think it's like, I mean, I have like an addictive personality in general. I think it just comes back to this issue of control. And like I've learned to use that control in a healthier way. And it also, it also just stems so much from just being unhappy with myself and my life. And like now that I'm like so happy with everything I'm doing and I really love my life, like I don't feel like that anymore. You know, it's like, I thought that by controlling those things, I could fix it. And if I fix that, like life would be great. Like, you know, it would be better. And it wasn't. And it's like, life is good. Like I don't need to do that, you know? Do you think that stems, that trait stems from one of your parents or something that happened to you as you raised or the way you were raised? Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, my whole life I was just looking for validation and approval. I felt like no one was paying attention to me. I mean, that came with my OCD with school was like a huge thing. Like I was, a 99% was not good enough. Like I needed a hundred percent. Like I spent my whole life studying, like stupid shit in school. And it was like life or death. And I just, I was just looking for validation and I wanted somebody to say I'm proud of you. You're doing enough. And I never, I never got that. I never felt that. I always felt like a failure. Like the only things that were pointed out to me were the things I was doing wrong. You know, I was a straight A student. I was not doing drugs. I was drinking a little, but like responsibly, you know, like I was a really good kid. And I remember getting so pissed because I'm like, you would not get like, especially in the environment I'm in. I'm like, you should see what the kids around me are doing right now. Like, cause I'm the only one in this room not doing coke. Like, you know, like don't tell me I'm a bad kid. You know, and so whenever I would get critiqued, I would just get really butt hurt about it. Like I would just be so pissed. Cause I'm like, how, you know, I just never felt like I was, I just felt like what do I have to do for somebody to pay attention to me? That's how I felt, you know, and I just never got it. And it took me a long time to realize that I don't need that from anyone outside of me. I just need it for myself. Awesome. Were your parents like militant or did they have religious background or what made them so, you feel like made them so controlling or made them feel like they didn't, you know, you never had their approval. They just kind of, I mean, they weren't, I guess concerned with me. Like my mom. Probably cause you did everything so well. Yeah. And my parents also resented me. My parents a little scared of me. My mom's told me this that, you know, I scared that like she felt threatened by me because I was so smart when I was so young. I mean, when you talked about when you were younger and you were that kid who was always call people out and like I was that kid. I was a smart kid and people didn't like that. And like, I know my parents, they got a little afraid. And like my mom has told me, she's like, you know, she would talk to me on behalf of my dad on like, why isn't dad talking to me? And she's like, he's a little scared of you. Cause I'm very like, I mean, my family, the reason I can talk to you guys is because I grew up, if I want to say something, I got a yell and I got to get in there. Like we're all opinionated and we all bust each other's balls and like, you know, you just got to get in there and scream and yell and there's things are like flying. And you know, it's a disaster. So my mom is a hustler and she's always been a hustler and I learned from her, you know, she would work from six, you know, she works across the, she'd drive an hour, work from six a.m. to 10 p.m. at night and pass out. Well, damn. I learned like that, that's hustling and like that success, you know, and like my dad was always really successful too, but he's not as like intense as my mom. My mom was like really intense. So I think that's kind of, they were just, no one was really paying attention to me. My sister needed a little bit more help. Like, and I didn't like, school came easily to me. Like I made friends easily. She had more struggles. Yeah, she did harder time in school. She just like needed help with more things and I just always did everything on my own. Did you watch the movie, Younger Sister? She's my older sister. Did you watch the movie, Wonder? No. So in that, you got the kid who has, I'm not, but he's, you know, he's got the issues and they show the movie from the perspective of him, his sister and then his parents. And his sister is this wonderful girl, good student, good, but her parents have no time or energy to spend on her because they have to deal with her brother. So she feels like she's never paid attention. Can you identify the strengths and detriments that you got from each of your parents? I hope they don't listen to this. No, I mean, I think- Mine pumped small, that one. I think my mom, my mom, like I just said, she taught me to hustle and she taught me. She is like a badass. Like everybody is afraid of her in the best way. She speaks her mind and she does not apologize for who she is and that's where I get it from. That's why we butt heads a lot. Like we're really similar with that. So yeah, I think- We'll count that as a strength. Yeah, I consider that a strength, but it's also the weakness. It's also working too hard and driving yourself into the ground. And I tell her now, it's like, you know, you need to leave the office earlier. You have to pedal a little bit. Yeah, and like, because I have the same issue, I can't turn off. Like I can't turn off and she just works too hard. And I think also it's just so hyper focused on what she's doing that it ends up being selfish, not meaning to be, but she's just so hyper focused on like what's going on right now, like what's dealing in my life, like not considering what's happening with other people. And that's something I try to really be cognizant of because I know I can easily fall on that trap because I'm just my brain's buzzing. I think my dad, well, I don't, I mean, I have his like sense of humor, like the dryness, the sarcasm, and also the same thing, like he will just say what he thinks and he says some pretty controversial things that he doesn't think twice about. And I get that from him too. And he's a really hard worker as well. I think that's why they were drawn to each other, but I think he's just, he's so stubborn that he can never see the other perspective. And I think that this whole experience, I was always like that too. I was always right. Like I was always right. And this whole experience I went through taught me, like I don't wanna have that trait anymore. And it's like, I know what I know and I'm very open about I'm not the expert on this. I don't know this, like teach me more. Like I have so much to learn from so many smart people and like I wanna learn more and more and there's so many people who are so much more intelligent than me and like that's great. I don't wanna be the smartest person in the room ever because how am I gonna grow? Versus like, you know, I think that sometimes he gets caught in this trap, like he's always the smartest one in the room. And like you're not gonna grow that way. You know, you're not gonna learn from other people. That's the trait that I recognized in you when we first met because I knew your background with UCLA. I knew that what you've been doing with nutrition. I knew that you understand all the conversations that we've had on Mind Pump. But what I was most impressed with was someone of your age not trying to impress us or try and act like you're smarter or as smart by talking like that. A lot of times when I meet somebody who's younger, really, really intelligent too, they feel this need to like, it's- Overcompensate. Yes, overcompensate for it. And it's super common. I mean, I remember being that guy for a very long time too, always trying to prove how smart I was, improved everybody like that and took me a long time to let go that and work through that insecurity. It's very common when I meet other really intelligent young minds. I didn't get that with you at all. I was really impressed with, you know, the fact that you, there's a lot of things that we would be talking about that you were actually very well read on and you didn't feel the need to- You didn't have to overstep, you know. You could listen and let us kind of run through the thought, which is, that's rare actually. No, no. Thank you. Yeah, very rare. Well, I try to be, like I really, like I try to be very conscious of it because I know how easy it is. Because I think, I mean, I experienced it a lot. Like the ageism thing, you know, I'm told, well, you're only 19 or 20 and I'm the doctor and I know. And I just want to scream, no, you don't, you know. So it's hard to fight, it is hard to fight that urge. And I know a lot of people my age feel that way. But there, you know, there's always something to learn from anybody you're with. Yep. Well, that's awesome. We are super pleased to have you here. Thank you so much for inviting me. Yeah, yeah. This is so fun. Yeah, I don't think it'll be the last time either, man. I'm really excited. No, we gotta do some more stuff with you. I hope not. Yeah, no, I love hanging out with you guys. So real quick, run down all the places these, I mean, we're gonna do a whole intro for you, but all the places these guys can find you. Because I know you got the different Instagrams, you got the two podcasts, you got the blog going. So my blog is addictedtolovely.com and my podcast, one is actually adultish, which is on iTunes or actuallyadultish.com. My other podcast is straightuppaleo.com or iTunes straight up paleo and on Stitcher, which you guys are on now too. Awesome. Good work. And Spotify. Yeah, so that's pretty much where you can find me and on Instagram, addicted underscore to underscore lovely because some person took it without underscores. I can't get them off. Yeah, that's how we see it'll be another thing. Oh yeah, I hope so. I'm always, I'm always popping up everywhere. I always tell people, I'm like, I'm not hard to find. Just search me, just search me. Yeah, I was saying the same thing. I feel like an asshole though. Just Google me. Just Google me, it's easier. Don't Google me, you'll see some. Yeah, there's all I want you to see. Not the images anyway. Excellent. All right, check it out. 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