 Welcome back Tisha. Hi everyone, thanks for joining us today. My name is Alex McKay. I'm VP of programs and Interactive Grants for Rasmussen Foundation, which is a place-based funder located in Alaska. At this session, investing in artists and culture bearers is part of the arts culture and creative economies track. It was put together by the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts. I'm really grateful for that and excited to share some of the artist's work and investment in processes versus products. I think people often think about creativity and arts in terms of the product, but really there's a process and infrastructure that really is behind it all. What I'd like to do is, before we really launch, you know, I think that we really hope that what you get out of this session is to know that there's much more to the artistic process than what meets your eye. Like with any industry or project, there's an infrastructure that needs to support the work, and sometimes this infrastructure is really invisible. You know, we think of as funders infrastructure as being, you know, mortar bricks, wood, but really it's made up of people and ideas. And so I think that in this area in particular, there are ideas that you'll really hear how they started, how they've evolved from ideas and to what might just look like a product, and what inspires them to move it out into something that's a pathway for others and really inspirational and really foundational for communities. What I'd like to do is to ask each of our presenters and who we have is Quachum, Steven Blanchett, Ingval Gutu, Tisha Creer, Sakia Harris here with us, and I'm asking each of them if they could introduce themselves, and I'll start with Quachum. Yes, I'm going to start with Quachum, and I'm going to introduce him to you. Hello, my name is Quachum, also known as Steve Blanchett. I'm calling in from Juno, the traditional homelands of the Shinkett people. And I am originally from the southwestern part of Alaska in a community called Montresa, and I'm a music and black, I'm a musician, primarily, I'm also a cultural educator. And I currently, you know, on top of performing and performing in my band, Bommiua, I work as the Art Education Director at the Juno Arts Humanities Council and, you know, just do a lot of advocacy for the arts and for music and for culture on things like being on the board of the Western Arts Alliance, where I chair programs such as, you know, Advancing Indigenous Performance and Black Arts at Wa. So yeah, that's just a little bit about me. Poyana for joining us. Thank you. And then I'd like to go to Tisha, and if you could introduce yourself. Greetings, everyone. My name is Tisha Creer, and I am talking to you right now from the middle of my juice bar in South Oak Cliff, Dallas, Texas, where I have been born and raised. I've spent a lot of my life, I'm a theater baby. I spent a lot of my life doing arts administration as well, working for the city, and working all over this town in various capacities. A few years ago, we started a company called Susu Cultural Business Incubator as a way to support and stimulate the local creative and cultural economy by supporting local creatives. And it was the hopes of creating a cultural business hub or acquiring properties so that we have space to do the beautiful things that we do. So we did a series of pop-up markets for a couple of years in vacant lots throughout our town, and we four years ago acquired this property that we're on right now through a non-traditional loan from a family foundation. And we are looking to acquire more properties so that we can house even more creatives to do even greater work. I'm glad to be here. Thank you. Thank you, Tisha. Now I'd like to turn it over to Ingill to introduce yourself and your work. Yeah, hi. Thank you so much. My name is Ingill Wattengustu. That name is 100% Norwegian, and I am 75% Norwegian, 25% Swedish, extremely Caucasian, and a happy Alaskan dweller since 2002. When I came kind of with the circus up to Alaska and after three days decided to stay and I haven't really ever regretted that or been close to even be bored with that at a single moment. I quickly got involved with the arts and culture in the local area, which after having been on the road with music and theater companies for more than a decade, it was very nice to lovely to find a community that I could be part of and kind of thrive in and help contribute to. In short, what I'm doing to contribute and to thrive now is to run a non-profit organization called Northern Culture Exchange, and that organization has been in existence for about eight years. It's an umbrella for a lot of different initiatives and projects run by people who want to do stuff without necessarily running an organization, and so we help each other, we share information, we share financing opportunities, and we share bookkeeping and all of that kind of stuff, and we are spread over a large area of arts genres, but primarily we're focusing on music right now and we're also even portioning off a kind of music part of what we do into a second non-profit called Music Alaska. So those two things, maybe that's enough for now, after maybe to say that what we actually run is a music festival, an annual music summit, an under-21 open mic, a performance series, and kind of advocacy and professional development initiative for musicians. And then I'd like to finish the introductions with Zakiya Harris. Thanks everyone, it's my honor to be here with you all today. As you've heard, my name is Zakiya Harris. I'm the granddaughter of Evelyn Light and Mary Jane Rose by way of Richmond, Virginia, currently residing in my hometown, Ribliff, since I was two years old of the beautiful Oakland, California. I consider myself to be a cultural architect working at the intersections of art. I am a performance artist, a singer, a dancer. I do theater work myself. I'm also all about personal transformation. I do that work as a life coach. I'm also a spiritual entrepreneur. Currently, I'm overseeing a project throughout Alameda County that's really focused on Oakland as the epicenter called ArtsWeb. And so we have created a black and BIPOC, but really centering black, the black led creative cultural ecosystem. In the words of one of my dear sisters, Ashara Ekundayo, really speaking to the fact that many times black artists are art as first responders. They are the first responders in the streets, moving the conversation not only about what it looks like to lift up the creativity of a city, but also what it looks like to advance equity and social justice. And we all know that Oakland has always been traditionally a hub for that. And for that reason, we want to make sure that because of this economic pause that we've all received, that we are centering the black led cultural creative ecosystem and they have an opportunity to tremendously benefit and restore the historic marginalization and disenfranchisement of those communities. And so that's why we are working specifically around the strategies of real estate acquisition, black led cooperative structures, as well as integrated capacity building as a different form of capacity building. I also want to acknowledge that we are on stolen land. We are on Ohlone land and Ohlone territory. So we're also grappling with the realities of what it looks like to trade and market and sell and exchange land that has been stolen. And so that's definitely something that we've been in discussions about and really thinking about how to be to restore, be inclusive, and to acknowledge that history as well. So thank you for having me. Great. Even though I'm prepared, you know, with for all of your artists, when you hear all of your stories together, I'm just so impressed. So it's really exciting how much work and influence all of you have. I just want to acknowledge that. So to get into the meat of the conversation today, I think I want to, I'm going to lead off with Tisha. And I think that you're hearing what each of these artists do. And then you're hearing sort of the, the kind of amazing extensive things that they're doing for the community. But what I'd like to know is sort of what inspired you to do this kind of what what does this work mean to you in terms of the community, at least at the beginning? Well, it's so many layers to it. But, you know, this particular project that I'm working on right now, it comes, the inspiration comes from the fact that there is no fresh food. There's no fresh food in my neighborhood. And I'm hungry. So we created a space so that we could get food. And then in addition to that, you know, honoring, you know, the cultural root of our food and transforming it into the healthiest version possible brings a lot of stories and a lot of connections. So that was the, you know, the first inspiration for this. And, you know, just the fact that, you know, I'm watching my entire neighborhood on top of the vacant lots. As we go into developing these areas, we're not included in the in the voice in the in the development. And so, you know, just to show that, you know, locally led responsible property development is probably the most innovative thing that you can do. You know, and so that was the the inspiration for that part is to be able to capture some of this land that is here. Because as I started, you know, like I said, I grew up, I came up as an artist. And when I started doing teaching artists and arts administration work, I started to look at the landscape of the of the city. And I started to see how much systemic racism is just so deeply involved in our urban planning. And so, you know, I just wanted to look at ways that we could capture land and like sister Zakiya was mentioning, you know, looking at economic structures, their new economic structures, but their old economic structures, that's why I call it SUSU, you know, and it's this idea of working in a circle and getting out what you put in, you know, capitalism always wants a percentage of cut of tax, but there is value in working in a circle and getting out what you put in. So these are the basic tenets of my inspiration. Yeah, and I'm struck in the conversations we've had that you are part of this is the community you grew up in, I believe, is that right? It is. And I think that as investors or funders, sometimes we come in with ideas, there's a great idea that works in another community and we want to spread that idea and kind of fund that idea and kind of bring it to a community. But it seems that the approach you're taking is you're from the community and you saw a need in terms of the food that you couldn't get in the fresh food that's often not available in marginalized neighborhoods. And could you talk a little more about how you expanded from your juice bar and creating healthy food for the community into these sort of pop-up stores and real estate? You know, what inspired you to do that? Because that's really going a step beyond. Yeah, it kind of went the other way around. It's like one of my colleagues, people knowing here, Clyde says, you know, people a lot of times when funders come in, they want a feasibility study. And with people who live in the neighborhood, we are the feasibility study. We are the study. We know what we need. We know what's missing. And a lot of times we've erected creative ways to make that even happen. So what happened was is there's this whole body of people that are creative, making creative things, making products. And not just products, but serving the community in their creative and cultural way, being the culture bearers. And so, and then I was looking at all the vacant lots. So it's like, well, let's take what we do, put it together and pop them up in these lots and serve our people right there, as well as proving the economic viability of how these vacant spaces can basically make money in addition to serving. I know it's not all about money. And I know sometimes when we start to talk about money, it starts to feel like it's the evil thing. Like if you connect your art and your culture to making money, then suddenly it's like you're selling out. But, you know, I think that that's a big part of, you know, the things that I work with inside of my community is us getting over that leap and realizing that you can be righteous and be economically sound. So yeah, so it was about like showing that inside of all of these vacant spaces. And to be honest with you, I wasn't necessarily going to start with the food, but we decided to focus on this one mile strip of land about five minutes away from downtown. And this first place that we were able to acquire is just a small little space that you see me in now. And it said food. It said food. So we listened to it. And that's what we erected. We have a body of concepts and businesses that can go depending on what the space calls for. So it also just inside of there, we did a, you know, like I said, it's called SUSU. So we did a lot of like SUSU circles and economic exchange just to kind of practice that arm of collective work and collective responsibility. So you didn't have to do a community survey or a feasibility study or value because you, as you said, you are the community. Yeah, survey happens on the porch. That's great. Or at the church, you know, or whatever. That's the survey. Right. You're always in survey. So I'm going to turn, thank you for that. I'm going to turn it over to Kwa Chun to talk about your work. And I know I'm familiar with your band, wonderful band, really fun, but it's more than that. You know, there's, there's more that really brought you to the music and what you do. And I wonder if you could talk about kind of marrying your culture, the black and you pick culture and so the language and cultural elements and what inspired you? Yeah, sure. Guyana. Yeah, that really, I want to say first, you know, to Zakiya, thank you for, you know, bringing to light, you know, stolen land and having that question of how to transit transaction on that, you know, I'm still on my homelands and, but I think about it, you know, thought about this many times. Like, for those of us, for many people, if they want to learn about their culture, about their history and about their ways and their practices and their heritage, they have places to go back to. You can go back to Europe or all these places around the world. But, you know, if we start to lose our culture, our languages and those heritages, we don't have a place to go. I can't, there's no place for me to go back to or our people to go back to. So that, you know, that real, that knowledge of that is, it weighs very, very heavily on, especially indigenous people here in, you know, in the Americas, Alaska. But, you know, so, you know, I, in my lifetime, you know, I grew up speaking my traditional language, which is my first language. And so it's a huge part of our identity and who we are. And when I was young, we had many, I mean, large, the Yupik language is right now currently, you know, second behind Navajo is the most widely spoken indigenous language in North America. And so when I started, when we started seeing this, our languages start to kind of slip away from about 90% of our people spoke our language when I was a child, when I was born. And in my lifetime, we have seen that dip below 50%. And that was, it's just devastating. We've have seen languages in my home state with 22 different traditional languages. And like main languages that, you know, that doesn't even, you know, not counting the dialects. We've seen a couple of them, and just in the last 15 years that have gone extinct. And it's devastating to community. It's devastating to, on so many levels, because the language is just a part of it. So my music, you know, we sing, it's very intentional that we sing in our traditional language, in our traditional mother tongue. It's an Inuit language, part of the Inuit language family. But the dancing, traditional dancing is also a big part of our performance. And so this performance of dance and music in our language, that's just, that's a huge part of it, right? And each one of those elements really interlinked in so many ways. So let's just take dancing for traditional dancing, for instance. So with the dances, you need you need drums, like the one behind me, artists that paint on these drums, our dance regale, which is our dance fans, our headdresses, our Gus Bucks, our Bilu Bucks, which are our boots, many people call them mucklucks. The drumsticks, I mean, all these just layers and layers and layers of knowledge and history. And that's just one element of our culture. So these are things that we're fighting for. You know, we are on, you know, we're fighting to keep our culture from becoming extinct. It's endangered. All of our languages back here in home are endangered. You know, I'm here on Tlingit land down in Southeast Alaska. And there's just a couple thousand people of the Tlingit people that speak the language, you know. And that's just just, it's so close to losing so much of who we are. So that was kind of the impetus, you know, when my brother and I and Asi and Irina and Christopher, you know, this core of our group, when we decided to embark on this idea of utilizing our culture and to make a statement and a career in music. Thank you, Qichun. I think, I mean, that's wonderful, just sort of tying all of that together. So community and culture is just really part of everything that you do. But you, and I know that it's gone beyond that practice, just from knowing you and knowing the work that you do. And could you talk a little bit about how you've engaged kind of the broader community and how you're kind of laying the path forward or what I would say is starting to lay the path for others. That's not often what a business does, let's say. You know, you can invest in a business and you're just doing your business. And there are extra pieces that all of you are doing that are not monetary. And again, I agree, there's nothing wrong with money. It's really what you do with it. But could you talk about that and how you've expanded what you do to include others? Yeah. Oh, man. You know, doing this, being in this life and being a part of this, what I see is not, you know, just as a movement, that's really the, it's not about the money or anything like that. I mean, I don't hardly make any money off of it. We just, I mean, but we still continue to do this. Because, you know, we're warriors. We're warriors. And we see other warriors out there. You know, when we started, we're about 25, 26 years that we've been together as Bamiwa. And, well, we kind of, in the beginning, you know, when we started this, we were seeing, we wanted to bring people with us, right? We wanted to pull this, I guess, in a way, we were talking about this a little bit, because, you know, we're in Alaska and talking about the snow, we have to break trail, right? Because, you know, the person in the front is really struggling to break through that snow. And that deep snow, it's just a struggle. But you just keep going. And those that come behind you on those trails have an easier time. You know, and the more and more and more people that you have, then you have, I mean, a well, well, well take a well traveled trail, even on the ice and snow. And so, you know, lately, I'd say in the last five, six years, we've been seeing a lot of young indigenous artists, artists like Byron Nicolai, artists like Arius Hoyle, who are also performing and singing in their own languages. We're trying to uplift them as much as possible. So when we can, we take them with us on the road and on a show, throw them onto a track on, you know, I have young Arius on a couple of my tracks on my new album. And so we just really, we're trying to like uplift, uplift those, because that's the way it is that we do this, right? We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for our ancestors, that, you know, continue to sing the songs, to continue to drum and dance and to teach us those ways. My mom, Alvin Marie Mead, she was, she's a huge reason why we're, we're doing this, you know, she's a traditional dancer herself. And, and she didn't, she, she really was, you know, she is that one of the reasons why we continue to do what we do, because, you know, she, she, for us, having an elder, you know, like, I see her now as an elder, right? She was just my mom, my mom for so long. But, you know, she's there trying to do the same thing. She teaches language, you know, every day she's fighting for these things to keep our languages alive, our dances and our songs. So we carry on that legacy of, you know, of those that come before us, so that those after us will be able to continue this as well. Beautiful. I mean, I think for people who are funders, and they're thinking about infrastructure, you know, you try to think about, you know, how solid is it? Is it sustainable? But it seems to me that in the creative process, if it's the passion that drives you, sustainability is built on it, because there's a recognition of who came before you, who shouldered you stand on, I think, in a lot of cultures or in music or creative areas. And then this idea of bringing people along. So the work and the infrastructure is already there. The investment is the passion. And then the funders are really just coming to add some fuel to that. That's wonderful. I want to turn it over to Ingville, who I know also has, you know, there are things that we all draw upon, whether it's, you know, I know in your family, there's a strong musical tradition. And that's really driven your passion for music and theater and performance and communication. And luckily for Alaska, you brought it up here. Could you talk a little bit about that passion? And maybe then we'll go into a little bit about the sort of infrastructure that you've been building so that others can really come forward. I mean, you supported me so that I can come forward a little bit more with arts that I love. Anyway, I'd like to turn it over to you to answer that. Yeah. So thank you. When I, so passion, I want to also mention the other side of my family, which is language. So I learned to read very early from my dad, who is kind of, you could say, the keeper of the traditional language in Norway. He's the editor of the main dictionary of the Norwegian language. So language has always been a very important part of our family. What's kind of really ironic in a way is that the experience I had as a younger person was being a part of a minority language, which had been the ruling language. So there's like, I've seen in just in my little lifetime, not that old, things sort of be overturned and politically, things move in this way and that way. And not just politically, but people's actual conception of history and what truth is moves faster and faster these days, but has this something that what reality really is and the value of where you come from, what you represent and a culture which is threatened or one that's on the move. It can be a subjective experience and it can be changing hopefully for all of us and everyone we work with it will change positively. And so I think that the thing that made me settle in Alaska, which has been kind of the root of the work that I have been fortunate to be allowed to do because I am kind of a self-taught organizer. My background was in theater and in music, obviously, and also sort of just academia, then coming to a place that I suddenly felt like there's a need for some engville here. I remember sort of saying that. There's like, this place could do with some engville and I didn't even know what that meant. I just felt totally sort of like welcome to contribute. And that has been the thing that has kind of warmed my heart that there was very few questions about, well, who are you? Where do you come from? What are you? You know, none of that, which actually I experienced when I go back. It's more complex to go to a place where you were born and where you grew up because there's so many layers. So in one way, I kind of honor and have huge humility for people who are working in their home place because for me, that's actually more psychologically complex. I feel like I have more freedom to contribute. And that's really what I want for myself. If I was going to take anything, it's a satisfaction of having done something for other people. I think that's a very human trait in all of us. There's nothing special for me or that's just what I was looking for. And I therefore believe, I think I learned at some university course that what's very strongly personal is typically also universal. So you're personally individually deeply experienced truth. You can be pretty sure that you are not living among Martians. So there are humans on this earth and we all sort of share that and you'll be able to communicate. So as a performer, I have been always seeking truth and some that could allow me the moments on stage or in other performance situations as a real true connection with people because it makes me feel whole. And I think that is what translates into the community work and the discovery, the continual discovery of what all these different things mean to put together organizations, framework, infrastructure and so on. And so I started a festival because I needed friends. Like Tisha once said, where's the food? And I'm like, where are the musicians? So in a way, I started playing with some people and we formed this jazz festival, which is now 14 years old in a juice bar with the smoothies. And we were all sitting there going, you know, yeah, that was cool. You write music and I looked around and everybody here writes music. We all have an hour's material. What if we started a festival? And we did. And it was this kind of crazy one day, hot and sweaty, believe it or not, Alaskan summer evening. And now 14 years later, a lot have evolved. And the nonprofit came out of the need. Everything's organically kind of happening out of the need to fund it and to have more control over the organization of that. We had fiscal partners. We learned what we could do bit by bit. We've also never really done a feasibility study. We do our work based on listening. It's kind of listening to the ground and then building trust. And that was what I was going to say decided I was going to say today that I think that my main interest is to build my drive, personal drive is to build connections and build trust between different players and be they different artists, because artists can be so possessive about their capital, which is their idea. They think they're the one that has this like, okay, now here's my juice bar, here's my band, and I'm not going to share my recipe or share my scores with you. And it just seems like it would be better if everybody in a small place like Anchorage, Alaska or other cities would know about each other and work and share. And I do think that I've played some part in making that kind of at least an option, a viable option for people in the community. And those paths that we those trails that we blaze, they can be blown back again. So we have to kind of keep, we have to make sure that there's enough people continually that follow us or go with us or teach us things because we may actually be in the slightly less optimal direction to our goal. So I do think that there's this whole sort of path to what is your personal truth and trying to be authentic and stand by that and not be too distracted from it and kind of do things that the community needs and be honest about this is what I think the community needs. I could be wrong. So it's kind of an open invitation to people to share their best. And I always ask people who want to work with me. This is my last thing. What do you like doing? What is it that you would like to contribute? And then they get a chance to start from their point of truth. And hopefully that takes away a lot of worries on everybody's part that they've been allowed to come in to a place as who they are. That's beautiful. Thank you. And I think that people are starting to hear there's a theme and there's a reason why this is the panel. I think that there is this understanding of community, which I think social capital investors are trying to invest in or how to strengthen communities or people, but it really starts from your own culture and your own drive and passion and being true to that and then finding your community or living in your community and listening to each other and being the decision makers. And I think that I know for me personally as a funder, that's really important to think of and that you see, you know, I'm in a very linear business of funding with evaluations and feasibility studies and dashboards and outcomes, but that really some of the best work that can be sustained really is organic and comes out of the needs that the community recognizes whatever community that is, the music community, the Dallas community teacher works in, whether it's a cultural community. And so I'd like to turn it over to Zakiya and maybe you could answer this as well. Sort of, we know there's a vast array of things that you do, you're a performer in many ways, but you're also sort of a kind of a life coach and person that inspires things and an architect of all kinds of creativity. But could you kind of go back to sort of the source and sort of share that with us and sort of what motivated you to get into the work that you want to say? Jazz hands, echoing everything that's already been said on the call. And I'm a child of the African diaspora. I practice Indigenous African spiritual traditions specifically ifa. And so in our tradition, we believe that your destiny is something that you come into this incarnation of this body with in many ways you chose it in the heavenly realm. And your opportunity in this earth and in this realm is to really remember, remember yourself. And so in that sense, I feel like this practice chose me. It's not something that I definitely chose. I was on, I was on a linear check box lifestyle of going to college, getting a degree. I did two years of law school doing all of the things that I was told to do because I was told to look outside of myself for my redemption rather than looking at who I was, what are the gifts and the special sauce that I actually bring and how can I bring my gifts to the world and how can I use education to really refine that. So I went through a major kind of transformation in my own life over 20 years ago where I really had my whole life kind of turned upside down and I made a commitment that I was going to stop compartmentalizing my work, stop compartmentalizing my life. I'm not going to be an artist in one room and then show up with my spiritual community in a different way and then show up at my job and be a different person that I was going to show up integrated and show up full. And I think as that relates to my arts practice, that's essentially what the call I have heard from everyone on this call as well as cultural creatives around the country and around the world. You know, I watched Oakland go from a place of shelter in place where our downtown corridor was completely vacant and empty and then it went through racial uprisings where it was completely destroyed. Then that destruction was then put up a bunch of boards. It was boarded up and all of those boards artists descended upon and made some of the most beautiful protest art murals that have kind of gone viral. And so we see this constant relationship between artists showing up and kind of moving these conversations of social change. We see these conversations of things being integrated. Artists wanting to be able to really hack the nonprofit industrial complex, hack the traditional models of finance and banking which have been historically racist and supremacist. And so people to the point of so many on the call they're not looking for another study. They don't need another map. They don't need another research paper. They don't need another advisory board. Everyone in their community is the own experts of their story. And so what I'm seeing in Oakland and I think across this call and across the world right now is a deep, deep sense of accelerated collaboration where people are coming together and people already were doing that. But because of this moment and because of this urgency of this moment, I think there's definitely been an acceleration of collaboration and people saying, but we don't want to go and just recreate the same systems that we've created. So yes, we want to acquire land because we know land is about maintaining place, but we also want to acknowledge the people who this land we're stolen from. Yes, we want to build our organizational capacity, but we don't need to all go out and hire our own CFOs, our own marketing and communication strategists, our own grant writers. How can we share those resources? How can we share the whole? I think the philanthropic community has been very generous in many ways because of COVID, because of the racial uprisings, but it's still maintaining a status quo system of what true liberation looks like. Single-year funding, funding that is not multi-year, forces, very small organizations who are already working with maybe one, two, maybe three full-time staff, if they're lucky, to have to figure out how they're going to manage these funds, but it's only a single year. They can't go out and hire anybody. They're also become complete rapid response agencies for the communities that they already were serving. So they're supporting them with COVID relief, supporting them with navigating these times of uncertainty and building the bike as they ride it at the same time. And so I think that we all agree we need to take a step back and truly use this wake-up call that Earth Mother O'Neillay has given us all. We've received the gift of this global pause button, this gift of this opportunity to take a step back and truly reimagine systems that are required. And so as people of color and BIPOC and Black, Lead and Indigenous communities are organizing, we also need our white, and I don't use the word ally, use the word co-conspirator. We need people who are ready to go to town with us and get locked up with us and hold themselves on the line with us, our white co-conspirator communities to really support us and what that those leverage points are to support us in reimagining those kind of historically racist institutions, specifically banking and real estate. One thing I'll share around that and what that looks like for our work in Alameda County as well as Santa Clara County is we are looking at new forms of metrics. One of the evaluation systems that we brought in is called the Community Cultural Wealth Framework. This is a framework that looks at non-financial metrics as an opportunity to demonstrate wealth, to demonstrate the currencies that every community already has, currencies such as creativity, currencies such as agility, currencies such of collaboration, being able to navigate and to move forward in the midst of all these things. How can we document that? How can we put that on a value statement? How can we put that on a financial statement and be able to truly take it to the bank and also know that as we're taking it to the bank we're not interested in the typical methods of loaning money and paying back debt. There needs to be restoration and there needs to be reparations and so that means that money needs to be given without anything attached to it. So we can get off of the hamster wheel of every year you have to do new work, you have to do new things, new things, new things in order to just kind of make that deep investment. And so I think that as we're watching the polarization of our country, we're watching communities be split apart because of these systems that now is the time to really reimagine them in new ways. And the reality is if any of us are still doing the same things now that we were doing pre-COVID, we're not doing it right. If we're still just interested in maintaining status quo methods of moving forward, then we're not moving forward and we can't use words like innovation because we're not being innovative and so that's going to mean taking chances, it's going to require taking risks, it's going to be required that there's not going to be the same levels of outcomes or roadmap that we're used to because we're going to have to move forward on uncharted territory. And so I'm hopeful that with our intention in place with holding the intention of really trying to reimagine an equitable just society for all that we're going to get there, but it's going to require a new mindset. Yeah, that's fantastic. One thing I forgot to mention, if any of the participants want to ask a question, please type it in the chat and I'll try to catch it. We just have a few minutes left and I think, so as a funder and there are funders, funder participants, we are coming to a table that we asked to come to through various routes and that table has already been set. There are tables that have traditions, practices, processes, procedures and things that are not necessarily grounded in community. Even for myself, that's something I need to think about. I was born and raised here and on Denyland, which I didn't know actually until I was out of high school, which is really just a horrible thing, but there's been a wonderful renaissance. And so that's very much more a part of what's happening now, at least in the Anchorage area. But what is it that you would all say to people who are at the table? So some of us are taking the more traditional route. You know, some of us we're gatekeepers in each of our ways. But we are also people that are culture bearers, language bearers, indigenous people. We're all indigenous somewhere. We all have the ancestors whose shoulders we're on. We all have a vision for the future. And that's why we care about social capital. So is there something that you'd want to say to funders to consider when, you know, so to help us move from this idea that we're coming in to fix something, or that we can heal something to where we can encourage and support those in the community, whatever community that is, to set the vision and direction. Because that's really where the inspiration is. So I'm kind of opening that up to you. And maybe one of you could think about that and kind of respond briefly. You know, I want to be honest, I grapple with this notion of a seat at the table. I think we need new analogies. I don't know how a group of people who've sat at a table, and you can pick whatever timeline you want to pick from, where you're choosing the timeline of the 2020 years of patriarchy and white supremacy, or we're choosing the 400-plus years of this so-called United States of America. We know that there's been an oppressive class that sat at that table. So I don't really want to seat at that table. I think that we need a new model. We need a new infrastructure. We need a new system, a new way of thinking about things, rather than just bringing new people to the same table. So I always struggle with that analogy. I know where you're going with that, I know that there is, and I'm using this word oppressive class. My 15-year-old daughter actually just taught me that term because that's the term that she's been asked to use, not saying white or saying upper class or lower class. There's oppressive class and the oppressed class. And so I think the oppressive class of the philanthropic and the private sector community needs to come off of the resources that are built on the blood, sweat, and tears of the oppressed. And just to do that, and without anything in return, just to make that investment, to trust that those communities know exactly what needs to be done. And unfortunately, one of the reasons that they're not able to really get those projects off the ground goes back to that lack of capacity because of that funding model that I said is very one oftenness. And so organizations aren't able to build the leverage to attract the national funding, to attract the next level of funding, to get to the next level, to take the time and the bandwidth, to just think about and to dream and to imagine what new methods and systems look like because so many of our communities have been functioning as first responders have been functioning as firefighters are always putting out a crisis. And so there needs to just be time to reflect and not have any outcome, any outcome at the end of it and trusting that just that investment will bring the outcomes that we want. Amen. I'm going to be very super brief. I just want to talk about, say something that one of my sister, Fada Cardona of Payacho Dallas here often says, she says, you know, there's always a lot of big investment to scientists and researchers without question, they'll get millions of dollars to research this thing. And it doesn't necessarily have to come out with a cure. It's just a couple, you know, and why can't we invest and have that same trust in the very people who have kept, you know, these communities alive. So I just want to put that there. Great. Anything for Tim or Angel? I would love to say something, but yeah, am I, I'm squinting on the microphone, but that's actually Stephen's microphone. So I am not muted. I feel as a traveler, because that's really what I've always been. I'm sort of hovering slightly detached from both whatever my own background might be and any of the issues. It's just, I don't know if it's personality or whatever it is. And it's not like I don't want to have roots anywhere, but I just tend to keep to sort of want to look for the 360 and that don't want anybody to feel like left out of those or whatever. And I love it whenever anybody reinnovates or, you know, recreates or turns upside down some kind of concept and makes me think again and feel again, because I'm an improvised, I'm a jazz trumpet player. I mean, I don't want to play the same piece of music. I don't do sight reading and then I put it away. I'm often too much into doing new things. So I really, really do honor the new look that we need to have. I don't want to have a go at table, class or any particular, you know, poor words. I mean, they're just words. They come from something just like people come from something. We stand every concept we try to do is sort of stand on the on the shoulder is standing on the shoulder something else. And we sometimes can perhaps put it have, I don't say it, I don't be very careful. I just want us to connect. And so whenever whenever we do connect with truth and our own truth, and our best intentions, I think is what what can move us forward in whatever direction we want to go. I, it strikes me as something that I feel like we're trying to do is create slowly but surely and individually in our own communities in a new kind of indigenous culture, we all wanting to become indigenous to the thing that we're doing because that's where we feel safe. That's where the language is known. It is common. We have commonalities. We have ways of doing things that everyone's behind. And we have beautiful traditions and memories and rituals and ways of doing things that are 100% owned by or I don't know the percentage but are fully owned by the participants. So whether the symbol for that is a table or a circle or whatever it is, it's definitely non hierarchical and it's coming together and it's flexible. And I think it builds on the trust and it doesn't alienate anyone. And I will just hope that we look at each process that we do and we are seeking funds or when funders come to us that we are the same people. We are in the same room already. And so there is just the need to have this gentle conversation or doesn't have to be gentle but a conversation where we really turn kind of almost every stone and see we create new concepts together and that we listen to each other. And I think it comes down to things that we've learned as good ways of behaving with each other as we were younger as well. And I think that taking these sort of very basic values that we hear in cultures that have been around for a very long time and that we heard in our own indigenous again I think is having the faith and the trust to be very open and human in our interactions. This seems to be the new way and I just really welcome that. So thank you. There is a question that I want you to think about either from the comment I want to make. Someone asked if the panelists have thoughts about how they interpret the word indigenizing and sort of the ways that we're using indigenous in our conversation. We are nearing the close so I just want to say thank you all. I think that artists and creative people who are connecting to kind of the heart of what they're doing and and having that drive what they do really is the future. You know that those are the things that are going to help our community you know whether it's you know in a way kind of weaving this fabric you know connections and trust and community making and kind of tying the past to the future and kind of building that path to the future or on Quachun's analogy of you know kind of stomping the path through the snow so that it can be there and it gets stronger and stronger every time and that path is really connection. I think that there is something I'm Zakiya said I thought was really interesting about not compartmentalizing you know wherever you are to not compartmentalize you know you bring your full self to everything that you do and I would hope that the biggest takeaway for the participants in social capital is that you also each of you is also needing to bring your full self to what you do whether it's at a table at a circle whether you're you know it's with a hammer to you know knock down the house whatever it is that your plan is ultimately and whatever you're doing and that you bring your full self and that there is infrastructure to invest in and that there are communities and people and energy and ideas to invest in and that that's what you look for not the kind of proven practice you know you really look for how you can support communities cutting their way through the path for each other and others. We are at the end I love this conversation it's just been such a gift to talk with you all and be able to have this conversation I feel a little selfish about it I get to ask whatever I want to ask so that's sort of my power in this position but as we close is there anything that you'd want to say in response to the indigenizing or any kind of closing thing you want to say as people kind of are closing out um should I open that up too yeah and everything you know in being in the place right I mean I'm here in my home there and when we woke up and we found ourselves as tenants in our own homes right we had to find a way to to to maneuver and get through that and and the really instead of really molding and shaping into the ways that we felt that or thought that we had to right in this new in this new world that didn't work we found ourselves in in in places and and situations in our culture and our social structures that have just been just just been just being destroyed so our best way that we have been doing it is just going back to ourselves and going back to who we are and and if that's indigenizing or decolonizing whatever it is that's what we as a community have found works best for us and where we're now moving forward as a as a community in ways that we had never in the last in the last hundred years yeah and it strikes me that all of you even if you're learning from your ancestor and that built you you're you're you're doing you and no one can do that better and there's really nothing more valuable you can offer the world so I think we are at the end I thank you all that was great I thank the participants for joining us your Bobuena Center for the Arts for helping to put this together it's really been a pleasure so thank you go forward don't compartmentalize be integrated be full and and we can get this done we can all connect we are thank you so much thank you