 argument seriously lied, I think it is. Yeah, a lie down with a kid. A calf and the shell graze, a young shall lie down together. Some people have dreamed this kind of utopian vision of a peaceable kingdom, but on the surface at any rate, naively, this is completely ecologically illiterate because Ina gene has lifted upwards and tragically so many people today do no false allays and we know. I'm advancing. Yeah, this is it. Anyone who is. If I'm advancing too quickly, just let me know. It is fantastic of reality and whether they believe in the election of a good life. Excellent. At this stage, would you like to take some questions from the audience? Actually, you're you're holding up quite well. So what, because of the fact that you can't directly hear what people are saying, I will basically repeat the question that I hear coming from the audience. Okay. Go ahead, everyone. All right. I got one. Yep. Richard Harvey joins with a question of his just a minute. I'll say really quick too. So we've got a bunch in the chat and then we'll let people kind of go. Maybe if you can also like raise your hand, there's a little option to do that. And oh gosh, how do I get back there? So Michael, and I'm going to rely on you to if any additional questions need to be shared that are in the chat or whatever, I can't click anywhere. I've got my hands full here. So if there will take questions from the audience, but if you want to interject, just go ahead. Okay. Okay. So we'll we'll let Richard go. And then I've got a few from Jenny D and from Trevor and from Connie. And we've got about 1520 minutes to do this. So go ahead, Richard. Okay. So we have about 15 or 20 minutes here left with you, David. And I'm now hearing Richard's question. And I will relay that to you. Okay. So for everyone who can hear me directly, there's a great sequence in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy where a cow that is very much looking forward to be butchered because it's been caused to experience the process as intensely pleasurable and also has been made as intelligent as a human comes out and tries to get itself eaten. And it's a really funny sequence and everyone should read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy again. So question, why not create a biosphere where natural processes as they exist now are not merely subverted, but are simply made pleasant or preferable to organisms that are presently victims of suffering because of the natural order. So Richard asks, why not create a biosphere in which the things, and I'm already forgetting some of it, but the things that are presently happening to the organisms in the biosphere become pleasurable to these beings instead of what was the alternative, Richard? Entirely subverting processes as they exist. Instead of entirely subverting processes as they currently exist. Yeah, thank you very much. So I'm going to share with you that ironically or serendipitously Richard shared the cow, the anecdote of the cow that wants to be eaten in Hitchhiker's Guide before he asked the question. So you guys were both thinking on the exact same wavelength here. I have another question. So this comes from Janati Stolarov and he says, given that it's meat consumption is still highly advisable for health, he says, basically, do you think that the widespread advent of lab grown cruelty free meat will be the necessary step to convince many people who are not comfortable with veganism or vegetarianism to basically go for that? Do you think that this will be the key component for a society-wide shift toward avoiding the killing of animals for purposes of food consumption? Thank you. So because we only have time for one or two more questions, what we're going to ask everyone to do is to post additional questions that they have in the campfire and I can't guarantee because of the technical difficulties that we are experiencing that David will be able to stay on the entire conference, but we will make sure that we relay these questions to him and get his delayed responses. David, we'd love to have you stay on if you can figure out what's going on with your audio, but we totally understand if the conference experience isn't sufficiently blissful for you. Excellent. So what we'll do then is as we receive questions for you, would it be all right if we shared your email as well with the audience? Okay, excellent. Okay, so we will share both the PDF and your email, but in the meantime we've got time for one more question and I'm going to go ahead and ask this one from Jeremy Hadfield. He says, what is suffering or to state the question more technically, how do you know if the mental state of a sentient being other than yourself is suffering? Understanding what suffering is seems to be a prerequisite for negative utilitarianism's project of reducing suffering, but I don't think there is a strong technical definition. How do you determine if you have reduced the suffering of a non-human animal with any epistemic confidence? Magnetic radiation, lumps you with animals, essentially to Prince of Russia uniform.