 Well, speaking of cookie, today is April 1st, and we have a no jokes episode. We're excited to have you here, welcome, thank you for joining us. If you were here early, you of course witnessed our green room chatter, and just as we do every Friday we reserve today as the dedicated weekly show for our ask and answer. We want to thank fundraising Academy for being the underwriter of every single Friday. And we also want to thank Bloomerang, your part-time controller, non-profit nerd, American non-profit Academy, staffing boutique, non-profit thought leader and the non-profit Atlas to be with us along with fundraising Academy each and every day for us to be here unscripted to have a wonderful casual conversation. Julia Patrick, thanks for starting this wonderful show and allowing me to serve as your co-host. Julia is the CEO of the American non-profit Academy. I'm Jarrett Ransom, Julia's personal non-profit nerd, but I can be yours too because I like to say there's plenty to go around. I'm CEO of the Raven Group. And again, so today, every single question is going to be something that you, our viewers, our listeners sent in and Julie and I are going to shoot from the help, but collectively we have over what, 50, 60 years of experience in the non-profit sector from our hips. So watch out Shakira, we're coming. Oh my God, when you put it that way, it makes me feel, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah. No. That's a lot of fun. I mean, look, my arms are disappearing. These hips have got some experience in them. That's fabulous. Well, it's true. And I want to remind everybody, if you want to see more of what we can do with our hips, you can see us on Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Vimeo, YouTube TV. And we now have a podcast. Yes. All of our episodes are being put up in podcast format. We're the 20 streaming podcast sites where you can, you know, queue us up and get us where you like to consume your podcast. So thanks to our executive producer, Kevin Pace, who's done all that. And it's really amazing already because we do a daily show, we're like jumping up on the charts here. And so we'll be reporting that out fairly soon, but we're really picking up some traction. And we want to thank all of our listeners. Okay, sister. Are you ready to go for the first question? No. Of course. It's really true. And you know what? This first question is hilarious. It really isn't, it's kind of breaks my heart, but I just thought it was funny. So I hate to say it. And also it's a name with help, which you know, but it's just a name. It's just a name. It's just a name. It's just a name. And a human service campus of a major city. My manager has told me that I need to be more circumspect. And not quite so jolly at work. I have tremendous respect for the seriousness of my work. But I like to joke around to break the tension. Is this bad? Isn't that fascinating? That is fascinating. Yeah. Right. And not so jolly. So name with held. I'm really glad to see you bringing some levity perhaps to, to the environment. One of my clients right along with you is a human service campus where, you know, there is some critical scenarios that, that take place. It's a very transient community. And there's a lot going on all of the time. And so, you know, we really do have to remind our P's and Q's when it comes to being aware and to observe our surroundings to make sure that, you know, everyone's safety is first and foremost. And like you, I like to joke. So I appreciate the levity. You know, I think that we need that. I have learned over my years that there's a time and a place. And so really understanding that if my mom were watching and maybe she is, she used to tell me that I had no filter at one point in my life, but I guarantee you name withheld. I do have a filter now. At some point, I guess throughout my maturity years, it has grown. And so I really do think it really depends on, you know, when and where you're using your, your jolly jovial side, perhaps in the staff meetings are perhaps during your lunch breaks, perhaps one-on-one with staff, you know, it's probably some of those better times, but really realizing when the situation does need that serious tone. And so I think there's a fine balance, but I'd hate for you to lose all that jolly. Yeah. I mean, I think it's like people who work, you know, they would say in ER wards, you know, that you have such high levels of stress that sometimes that behavior helps to kind of recenter folks and, and, you know, cut some of that cortisol that's like racing through your body because of that adrenaline hit and the joy of working and being, you know, I don't know jolly and sometimes we are so serious that it elevates a negative situation. And I think we can be compassionate, but we can be fun and human. And, you know, yeah, it's, it's really an interesting thing. I mean, you know, there's two different ways to look at this too. Are you laughing at somebody or are you laughing with somebody? You know, laughing at somebody has no place, but laughing with somebody I think has a place. It's, it's a fascinating. Yeah, good point. It's a fascinating thing, Jared. And I, I love, I know that you, you're working with a client in a really intense part of our community on some heavy duty steps. So I appreciate your, your response. So wow. Okay. Well, name was held. I say stay jolly. Stay jolly. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Okay. Let's, oh, let some. Okay. Our previous guest wants us to throw the show over to her. So just, it's April Fools and we might do that. I'm sorry, I'm sorry I lagged. I got a message through our portal and I was like, what? Okay. So I'm back on, she's back. Okay. So let's talk with Linda from Chicago, Illinois. I'm building a development team and I am the development director. And we're going to talk about this. How long should a new development officer be a part of our team before they are allowed to visit with donors by themselves or without one of our more seasoned team members? You know what? No one's ever asked us this question. Oh, Oh my God. It's hilarious. What's funny. I told you this would be a quirky show today. Okay. Okay. Okay. April Fools. Okay. For those of you can't see. Jared is pondering this very interesting question with a massive mug that is part unicorn. Part cow. Complete with. All unicorn. Oh, all unicorn. Okay. This was a mother's day present. It's a good thing. Okay. So development director. How should they be allowed or encouraged to go out on their own? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's really an interesting question. This is an interesting question, Linda. I've never been posed this question. I have a couple of initial thoughts for this. How seasoned is this professional? Have they. Like, have they served in this capacity and role previously throughout their life either, you know, as a staff member or as a volunteer as a board member. Or have they served in this capacity or have they served in this capacity? I think it's a great level of the person. As well as their ability to share the narrative of the mission. And I also want to say of the financials of the organization. So I really don't think there is a tried and true. Like you have to be here. You know, six months. You have to pass these proficiency tests. You have to be here. You have to be here. You know, fundraising Academy has some really good and strong courses that can help you with this. You know, our dear friend, Tony Bell talks about from the fundraising Academy, your presentation style. And I think honoring every individual's presentation style is really important to their success and therefore the mission success of meeting with this donor. So I don't think there's, there's a set timeline. And I think that's really important to the individual. And how experienced, comfortable, poised, confident that they are in a situation like this. Yeah, I think you're right. And, you know, maybe in time is not the, the measurement here, but it's number of visits. You know, to simply say, okay, I'm, you know, for the first three visits, we're going to have a more seasoned team member go with you. I think that's really the correct fact point or, you know, how to your point, Jared saying, well, these are some of the more stringent financial numbers or, or data points that we want to be accurate. That's right. With. And so, but wow, Linda, really interesting. I mean, never, ever been asked that question before. No, no. And I do think it's a great question. I love your response, Julia. You know, bring this individual or individuals into the fold, let them observe and kind of shadow other conversations, whether they're via zoom or in person in real life. I think that's, you know, all of these scenarios have different pros and cons. And I think that just really strengthens the opportunity. I also am a fan of role play. So if you have an opportunity to do this within your team or with your volunteers or board members, use this to strengthen the ability of your teammates. Do they have to wear costumes? I mean, only if you're into cosplay. Okay. I'm sorry. I could not help myself. Okay. Let's go to Antonio and from Houston, Texas. I've been watching a fellow staff member from our nonprofit who I think is amazing in weight would make a great fundraiser. Do you think it's a good idea to take someone from programming and bring them into fundraising? Yes, you do. I do. But here's the thing, Antonio, this person has seen the program. Like in its most intimate form. And so they can speak to the program, the delivery, the evaluation, the metrics, the success stories. Like they really know the program. So if they have the ability and the interest to, to share that as a fundraising ambassador, why not? Now I also want to say you want to be mindful of the gap that creates in your program team. So, you know, make sure that you do talk to your program staff or you make sure you talk to the leadership before you just kind of start poaching from within because that could also create some bad blood within your organization. And you certainly don't want that. But I have seen some fantastic fundraisers that have really come in from the program side. I think it's great. You know, I like what you said about talking with leadership. And I'm sorry, I'm like so fuzzy right now. I thought it was my unicorn. I thought, uh-oh, what did I pour in this drink? This is April for the April. Oh, there we go. Okay. She's back. Um, I think you're, you're right about talking with leadership of programming and saying, Hey, I reckon. I recognize something in this person. And, and I love what you said, you know, these are the people that witness the mission in action. And so even if you don't bring them in like and try and get them to become a fundraiser, even if you engage them into witnessing about what goes on with your donors, I think that would be super cool. I love bringing program staff in to talk. I'll share a very, very short story. Yesterday, this is a true story. Yesterday I met with the Parsons Foundation, which is a very large foundation here in our community. Some of you may know them as the owners of go daddy, which is also very well known across. Um, so it was myself. It was our COO and it was the program staff. And they were able, not the staff completely, but one member, she was able to give those true numbers within the program team. And so we collectively had different skill sets to share with a potential donor and a perspective, you know, investor to talk about the holistic approach within the organization. And it was a win-win because answers that I didn't know the program staff name. I love it. And you know, I think too, when we're talking to investors and donors, they want to know boots on the ground. What's happening. Yeah. You know, good for you. I think that's super cool. Well, I hope Antonio, that that gives you some ideas. And, um, I think it's a really great thing that you can recognize that and that you're looking. That's even more powerful. You're actually looking. Okay. Let's go on to James from Buffalo, New York. I bet it's still cold there. Is the COI policy that everyone seems to talk about just for board members. COI conflict of interest. That is a good question. Yeah. I just want to say good question. You, why don't you start, Julia? So the COI conflict. Yeah. COI. Absolutely. It is part of the 990. Form that you need to submit. And there's a box that's ticked. Are you, do you have a COI policy? And that's pretty much it. But absolutely. And it's a good question. Yeah. You need to be reviewing your policies every two to four years because of risk and how the laws change and all that. That's one of those things. Now. See, OI is designed to help. Create a more transparent. More thoughtful approach, especially to contracting. member and your spouse was, let's say, the CEO of a bank that your nonprofit was banking with, you would have to or you should acknowledge that and then whenever there was a vote or even a discussion about that banking relationship, you would recuse yourself. That's kind of an example of how that might look. Perhaps you are an owner of a company that is going to say they're involved in construction and your company is going to be part of a bid process for the nonprofit that you serve. Again, you would need to step aside and recuse yourself and that would be tracked in your minutes and declared. The COI policy, I'm starting to see more and more organizations extend that to their C-suite, which I think is kind of smart. For example, let's say the head of your finance department, they should not be engaging in contracts that the board might not ever see if there's any type of arm length transaction to somebody in their family or themselves. For example, let's say you're the head of HR and you have an in-law that runs as a staffing company. You would need to recuse yourself from any of those decisions that would make a contract viable or go through. It's that type of a thing that we're talking about. I agree. I cannot think of the attorney's name from Ogden. It was this week. Monday, Tuesday. We were talking about the bylaws as well as the policies and I do remember that. James, I have seen this mostly with the board members to Julia's point, the C-suite executive level in particular is also a really good kind of level of individuals within your organization. What I see the most instead of the COI is an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement. I think that's something that you might want to consider. Is it really a conflict of interest or is this a non-disclosure agreement? What are the difference and when do we use each of those functions in our organization? One thing you might want to think about is if you do allow your staff to have jobs outside of your organization, is that a conflict of interest or might they be sharing intellectual property that you might want to have disclosed and covered with that NDA? Again, I have really only seen this, James, with the board members, but I do think that you might also want to take a look at the non-disclosures. I like what you just said about that because oh my god, how many of those mugs do you have? This is hilarious. This is chewy. Oh my god, okay, that's an award winner. Hey, I think that's a good thing for as many different policies that you have. There is that piece of it that we need to be going back to our staff members in doing a review, and it can be many different policies, but as we share that and we try and reinforce that behavior that's acceptable and identify what's not acceptable, that could be done through a review, say the beginning of every year. Well, and for staff, let's remember that employee handbook, right? That's something that we really want to cover the majority of our staff, all of our staff, with your employee handbook. So just like Jeffrey Glazer mentioned, you know, it's not just your policies, your bylaws, but perhaps you also take a look at your employee handbook. I love it, Jared. Good, good job. See, you are a thinker. Okay, let's go to Judith. Oh, City withheld. What is your take on having two gallows a year? We're eyeing having an early fall and then a late spring event. These would support a cultural organization and be black Thai. Wow. My take on that is exhausting. That is my true take, no jokes here. But now what I have seen, Judith, is more of the breakfast model, which you might know as Benavon or raising more money. If you serve a statewide or multiple geographic locations, you could very well have multiple large black Thai events like a gala. And so looking at that, based off your community, maybe you have one in person, maybe you have one only streaming. Those are things that we have to truly consider right now. And so I would really take a better look, not to the fact of, should we do it, but can we do it? Is it expressed by way of capacity? Do we have the team? Do we have the volunteers? Do we have a committee? Because it is a lot, a lot, a lot of work. You know, I, given that it's a cultural organization, most cultural organizations have seasons. And maybe, and you know, so if it's a performance oriented organization early fall, that makes me think that that's what it is. Like it's a symphony ballet opera, maybe doing a black Thai kickoff, where you're kicking off the season because that's going to help amp up ticket sales or subscriptions. It's going to get everybody excited. And I've been, I've been involved in things like this, where we actually had these events on the stage or in the theater. And it's really fun. And then we kind of did, on several occasions, I'm thinking with opera and a ballet organization, two different organizations, we did snippets of what was going to be coming up. Oh, great. Right. And we had everybody like on the stage and seated. And it was really fun and different, you know, you're not sitting in a ballroom. And it was still very lottie-dop. But you know, most people, how many people in their life have been able to be on a stage or say, yeah, I got to go behind like, you know, the curtains and what it looks like. That's right. And I think that could be kind of fun. And then maybe for the spring to end the season or to do something that memorializes what occurred. But I agree with you. That's a heck of a lot of work. You would even mention, Julia, like the dress rehearsals. That's a great opportunity to have an event. I've been to our local symphony here and during intermission, they have like a VIP wine and cheese reception, which is really, really nice to be a part of that. So I think Judith, in particular, with it being a cultural organization, it allows you the opportunity to be creative. And I think that's that's a lot of fun. What if you even had like an understudy opportunity, where Julia, you were saying, you know, to be on stage or to really have that experience is something that cultural opportunities, cultural organizations have the great opportunity to do. You know, we always, I was a trustee of an Arizona opera for years. And we always invited our top level donors to something that was behind the scenes. And if it was, you know, we always for the dress rehearsals, we always had, you know, high level donors come, we would take high level donors into the practice rooms, because an opera, if you're close to a performer, you you can feel the power of their voice, which most people don't realize it actually goes through your body. And we would do that. And donors would be like, oh, my gosh, you know, they would just freaked out at how that, you know, literally bounced off their body. And it was a fun thing, even for me to this day is a fun thing to witness. So absolutely to engage the behind the scene things, I think is always great. I think it's meaningful. It's different. And having just one more black tie gala, maybe not the best idea. Wow, you know, this has been another great day. Jared, thank you for sharing your fabulous mugs. You're welcome. Happy. They're just fun, but but I definitely have the one here for fundraising academy. So thank you for being our underwriter for our Friday Ask and Answer. Julie, it's always fun to be here with you, and we are so grateful to have the continued amazing support from Bloomerang, your part time controller, fundraising academy, nonprofit nerd, the American nonprofit academy, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader, as well as the nonprofit Atlas. Absolutely. And as we enjoy this first day of spring and a day that oftentimes brings a lot of levity, we want to remind you, and I think ourselves, as I like to say, stay well, so you can do well. Thank you, everybody. Have a great and fun day. Thank you. See you Monday. Bye.