 This is free talk live, and it's the live Sunday edition of the program joining you in the studio tonight You've got me in and me mark coming up here tonight The topless event has happened go topless org 60 cities worldwide including New York and our very own Hampton Beach, New Hampshire on a rainy day in New Hampshire we will talk about that and I'll try to find a picture of the event to post up on our Facebook page at some point so be patient with us on that one We're actually gonna start out with instead of your calls. We'll get to you and your thoughts and please be patient We can still talk to you about anything, but every now and then mark We do have special guests here on free talk live sometimes they've been on before and this one has mark Can you introduce our guest? Yeah, this is Stefan cancella. He has You know, I guess his name has been made sort of in the Liberty Movement as Surrounding the ideas of intellectual property. He's an intellectual property lawyer but I think in many ways he gets kind of pigeonholed and He's written on a variety of topics and I he's an attorney. He is an attorney, right? He he sent me an email last week just kind of Clarifying Sending some articles that he'd written clarifying his position on what law means and I thought it'd be better if he just came On and explained it to us. Okay, Stefan. Welcome back to free talk live Hey, thanks a lot. What motivated you to to write out write the email to mark What was it that you heard on the air that was I guess inspired your comments? I heard you guys talking and you were talking about Restitution and punishment and people working off their crimes, but one thing you said was you just kind of had an off-hand comment where you I Know it was informal you're on the radio But it was like you equated law with what's written down or what the legislature makes which I would call those statutes Actually, I don't generally call that the law Personally, right, right. Yeah, I figured you kind of misspoke or we're just speaking informally, but I just wanted to write and Talk about what law is and how the one of the great mistakes that is made now even by libertarians quite often Is we think of law in terms of what has been decreed by some source, right? And nowadays that's the legislature, which is you can call legislation or statutes So that was kind of one point. I wanted to make how We could we sort of lose sight of how the very notion of what law is has been corrupted by the state's monopolization of law Well, law is just basically a series of what you could call legally enforced rules that govern social You know interpersonal social conduct in a given region on the earth nowadays that field has been monopolized by the state Provision of law. So law is just you know, a regular set of Interactions governed by some kind of regularly enforced social rules So I know that in English common law that essentially law was enforced with Generally without the power of the executive branch the king and being involved judges would sort of you know Circle around or whatever they people would hold somebody they felt to be You know guilty of some crime or another the judge would hear the case and whatever the punishment would be would be Meeted out and that sort of thing and it wasn't exactly a monopoly because you were a judge based on In many cases whether people would use you and hire you I Think there's there's something to that although I think libertarians sometimes or have a little bit too much of a rosy view of the English common law as being a kind of proto-libertarian type of legal system it is an example of a more Decentralized legal system that is decentralized courts and also there were different legal systems There was the canon law the church and other there was equity law and there was you know the regular king's courts, but they were decentralized and the difference between a decentralized system and Legislative system, which is what dominates today is that There's usually someone who decides the result between two parties that have an actual dispute And he tries to come up with a just result There's no guarantee that he would but the result is only between those parties and only binds those parties So anything the judge or the jury says it's outside of the Necessary confines of the dispute before them. It's called dicta just words So if a judge says, you know a wins he gets ten thousand Dollars from B because he damaged him and he said and by the way, I think that in the future Everyone should have to not discriminate based upon sexual preference. That would just be called open or dicta It would be ignored. He can't legislate from the bench if he did know where the court would follow it So that limits the power of these individual tribunals Interesting. So is that is that the way things are today? I mean judges because judges give their opinions all the time while sitting up up there. Did does it matter now? They do and dicta still is is is a tenet of The law but the thing is the role of judges has been changed the role of judges now is is is Very rarely to try to find the just result in a common law type setting When they do the results are usually common-sensical and they're okay But I would say 90% or 95% or more of what judges do especially federal judges is their job is not to find Justice in a given case or controversy their job is to interpret Words written down on a piece of paper, which is the so-called law, which is legislation or a statute So their job is just to interpret the Constitution or some federal or some state statute Even if they don't agree with the result even if the result would be unjust like copyright or the Constitution itself They just have to read the words and their administrative Functionaries there. They're basically civil functionaries of the administrative state. That's correct. Now many times They'll have lawyers sitting up there kind of doing a judge work And pretty much all judges are attorneys. Well, they are attorneys, right? But sometimes they'll have people who are practicing also doing judge stuff as any of that ever fallen to you You mean practicing attorneys being appointed to be a judge not appointed But so much asking if Stefan has done you were set up there Only in moot court had law schools. I think it'd be an international law judge I just sometimes they you know the the the ones that it seemed to be so more servile We'll get an opportunity to sit up there and just play judge and then they have to go back to work after that It's what I've what I've seen Well, I mean I think the main types of judges are the ones in states which are usually elected So they have to be politicians or the ones that are appointed in the federal system So they have to be somehow part of the establishment, right? They have to be appointed by by the president So they're always servile to a degree But even the good ones even if he wants to justice, they just don't have the ability to do it The thing is statutes are notoriously vague quite often. Oh, yeah, and they're vague because they're not objective Because they're just the crease of a legislature and quite often ambiguous terms will be put into legislation on purpose because that's how a political compromise was reached between the two or three or Four different special interests They just want to get a bill out there to get credit for it and they figure we'll just pump this to the courts They'll figure it out like the the Americans with Disabilities Act says you have to make reasonable Accommodation for people with a disability. I love that. No one knows what it means It's just so it's up to the judges right and the judges have to make a decision in a given case And so there is sometimes wiggle room and when there's wiggle room Then that's when the lawyers the advocates on both sides have a leeway or an opening to try to make moral arguments to Try to get this sort of justice-based fairness type concerns into the judge minds But they're just trying to push them or nudge them a little bit too little too late I mean the system is is messed up and a lot of the times these You know these legislators are attorneys as well. And so they're essentially just writing themselves new business It's a lawyer industrial complex Well, I certainly think that's true, of course but the problem is not the fact that there are lawyers in politics or that lawyers are the Executives even or the judges You know the problem is the conception of law is emanating from a sovereign or a source Instead of it having a root in some natural intuitive Sense of justice or the natural laws we sometimes would call it the very idea of legislation Corrupts and perverts the idea of law Can you give me some idea of some something you'd rather see in its place sort of from a judicial standpoint? Well, I mean if you have a state system, it's never going to be Perfect, so even in the common law that's never gonna be perfect. We as long as you have humans involved I suppose perfections out of the window Correct, but what my point is that even if you have a decentralized like common law system Like the common law or the ancient Roman law by the way So one misconception people have is that they think of the common law is this kind of decentralized Kind of free market type system in reality You had the Roman law which was older which was a decentralized system as well And then you had the common law come about later, which is a second decentralized system. All right, Stefan hang on Let's continue this discussion. I want to talk more about what is common law I mean, honestly, there's a bunch of people that call in and they'd blather on about common law But what does it really even mean 855 450 free? That's our toll free number. Maybe you get a question for Stefan Kinsella 855 450 3733 live Sunday edition of free talk live This is free talk live the live Sunday edition continuing it now We've got Stefan Kinsella with us attorney Is into a lot of the intellectual property arguments normally that's what we've talked about with him in the past He is against intellectual property and his blog Stefan Kinsella Dot-com I believe do I have that right Stefan that is right. That's S-T-E-P-H-A-N Stefan Kinsella K-I-N-S-E-L-L-A we'll put a link on our Facebook and Twitter for you as well so listeners can check that out. We'll continue talking with Stefan about what is law here in a moment? Yeah, but what we found what I found for my family is I found a way to handle this Obamacare law in a way that is beneficial to me So what it is is it's liberty health share and it's a health sharing organization as opposed to an insurance company and You know insurance companies obviously they take in money and they you know pay out to people who need it But the health sharing organization they do that they allow you to work with Families individually it cuts out all the overhead and for my family. It was about half price So I would encourage you to go to liberty health share org Now obviously if your company's paying for all your health insurance I guess you got nothing to worry about you know cut hitch a co-pays or whatever But if you've got to do your own health insurance check them out liberty health share org and the numbers 855 58 liberty 855 58 liberty liberty health share org All right, so back to Stefan Kinsella from Stefan Kinsella calm Stefan you were talking about law and What it really is mark use the term law when he mentioned Obamacare, but that's not a law right that's a US code isn't that what they call it? Well, that's that's right as part of the United States code So it is a type of statute and basically all of federal law is statutory law there There's something called federal common law, but it's not really federal common law. So Even the Constitution people think of as being this majestic document. It's really just legislation It's a little bit more elegant a little bit more general in most particular legislation But even the Constitution is is a legislative document right something decreed by somebody Which has some kind of authority in the states and the state courts which are more similar to the English courts The judges have this body of common law which developed over time in England primarily and Rome before that Which was the result of judges deciding cases and then their decisions were considered Presidential right so that is this cost theory decisive Which means one court that comes after it's supposed to follow the result before unless there's a really good reason Not to so in this way law develops Incrementally over time as judges and courts try to find just solutions to problems that real people have You're saying that would be what common law is That's what common law is but what's happened over in the last 100 or Plus years is that legislation has become more and more the dominant source of what's called law That's the results The rules that the courts will give it effect to and that the executive branch of the government enforces so at this point in time You could look at common law unless a statute has over overridden it right and that's more and more of the place More and more of the case Statutes govern almost every area of law now So statute law has become the dominant source of law and that's how people think of law now How does one okay? So I see what you're saying so without the statutory law then there would be common law How would one determine what common law is doesn't seem well common to me I guess so what happened is especially in appellate courses that's an appeals court's cases where the judges are really looking at what The law should be where there's a legal dispute not just the question about the facts like who committed this act The judges usually announced their opinions in a written decision and over time Those are collected in what's called cases and people can read them and then legal commentators like Blackstone or Other specialists in the law they will codify them. They will write private Treatises this is done in America now even today with the American Law Institute They called the restatements of law of course the restatements of law Nowadays summarize not only the common law that's developed but also the statutory law that's encrusted and grown up around it But it's like a mess It is a huge mess, which is one reason attorneys There are so many attorneys and they get paid a lot in this hyper specialized and it's harder For the common person to know what the law is even though doesn't really know what the law Yeah, most of the enforcers themselves don't even know what the law is there's been multiple times or what they even What their statutes say? They you know usually have to look up stuff before they even bring a criminal charge I'll arrest somebody and then figure out later what they what they are arresting them for But mark you there are so many laws they can choose which ones they want to use to go after whoever their current Right, and I know mark has a question But I was curious since we're talking about these different types of law people call this show these legal theorists call the show all the time I guess not all the time but often enough over the years and they bring up this thing about Maritime law that there's this gold fringe on the flat morale and morality law to Admiralty What's the difference is there a difference Admiralty law Maritime law whatever they you know They say this is like the law of the high seas, but yet it's in our courts. Is that a total conspiracy theory? What is what's what's your thought on that? I think it is a it's a total conspiracy theory These are the common law court types and they they use the term common law as well They think there's some significance to whether your names and all capitals But these people have also succumbed to the fallacious view of law because they think of law as What's been written down and decreed by the legislature, which is why you'll hear like an income tax protester now? I'm an income tax protester because I think the law is Immoral and illegitimate, but I wouldn't I wouldn't deny that you will go to jail if you don't pay your income taxes So it is a law right now. It's just an immoral law or a bad law But you will hear these income tax protesters if you say it is actually illegal to evade income tax They will say show me the law you hear this all the time now. That's a that's a legislative mentality They want you to show them in what they call the law books They want to see it written down in black and white Basically, they want you to show them a decree from the legislature Which shows them what the law is so even they are thinking of law as what comes from the legislature Well, they really mean is show me the the statutes that somehow obligate them to pay, right? I think so but the problem with that is, you know, the statutes are so vague not an income tax Actually, they're not that vague but in general the statutes are so myriad and complex and vague that all we can really know Is what Oliver Wendell Holmes the famous Supreme Court justice said he had what he called the bad man theory of law And he said if you want to know what the law is you have to think like a bad man And he would only try to predict what a court would do if he went before a court And that is really where the rubber hits the road, right? What are courts going to do? So what the Constitution means is what the court says because that's really all it comes down to in today's system It's basically naked force of the state against people So whatever the rules are that the the courts and the executive actually in force is what you could say the law is I Like what Mark Stevens definition of laws and opinion backed by a gun. Yes, that's exactly right I agree with that. So mark you had a question for stuff. Yeah, this one this is sort of the second part of the the email that you wrote me and I think that I Think there might be a point of contention here. So let's go for it There's sort of we were talking about what how we would if in the case of a multi-millionaire that perhaps gates broke the law Right and poor Bill Gates. He always gets used to these young samples So we have a murderous Bill Gates out there and perhaps he goes out to decide to kill people because in our new system of Restitution All he has to do is restitute say maybe say he's calling killing homeless people the restitution on them's real low or Whatever and so he says like yes, I get to kill lots of people because they're cheap They're only thirty thousand dollars apiece, right, and you had some kind of way that you thought that might be dealt with And you can tell us that in a moment stand by Stefan Kinsella is with us via Skype sounding good By the way, you can join us via Skype as well Skype usernames lrn.fm But if you've got a question for Stefan call toll free at 855 450 free if you want to play online poker with Bitcoin You need a site that's trustworthy and technically sound the site managers of SWC poker dot EU have proven their commitment to bringing you great gameplay from a site you can trust SWC poker dot EU they have lots of new games too including Chinese poker and their krill leaderboard is open right now It's a beautiful site easy to use with lots of players go on over to SWC poker dot EU now and have some fun with your Bitcoin SWC poker dot EU This is free talk live it is the live Sunday edition of course you're welcome to join us here on the radio waves at 855 450 free especially if you've got a question for Stefan Kinsella. He is with us here from Stefan Kinsella comm He's an attorney and as you might imagine has some opinions about the law So we're gonna continue with that also if you want to later you can call us on Skype at Skype user name lrn.fm how would you like to save 20 25 percent maybe even more on Whatever you want to buy on Amazon because you can do that the trick is you got to get Bitcoin and then or First whether you get the Bitcoin first or not you can go to save at purse Com now if you've got Bitcoin then you can load it up at save at purse calm and instantly start going out to Amazon and ordering the stuff that you want and There's actually a purse instant that allows you to get stuff without having to wait But if you want the big discounts the 20 percent 25 percent possibly more I got 29 percent off these headphones I'm wearing if you want the big discounts you do have to wait for a little bit You put your order in and then somebody will fill it for you. You can watch the video. It's super easy to do It's like two minutes video is very short two or three minutes or something save at purse Com just go there and get started when you sign up through our link save at purse calm free talk live We'll get a very small portion of each of your future purchases through save at purse calm speaking of Bitcoin And as an endorsement for Stefan Kinsella, I've actually paid him Bitcoin Really for services and I think he's the only probably the only lawyer I've paid in a decade. Wow, okay, that's cool So Stefan you're back on free talk live You were I think gearing towards a point about restitution when we went away Yeah, let me see if I can summarize kind of quickly What you guys had talked about on the previous show was the so-called the millionaire problem, right? Like if we have I mean you were talking about the problems with the punishment-based system Although mark was talking about You know, maybe people would be in prison working off their debts that kind of thing I think there are serious problems with that Randy Barnett has written about that the cost of a punitive system are very high I do think in some special cases you have to lock people up or banish them somehow because they're just standing threats to the community But by and large I think a restitution-based system is what would tend to evolve both because it tends to rehabilitate people Give them a way back in it's cheaper to administer all those kinds of things that said I think that libertarians Have an intuitive sense like most people do that basically punishment or some kind of retaliation or retribution is sometimes justified So the way I would put this is that restitution is not really the primary right the victims have Retribution actually is the primary right and I've written on this before in my my rights theory my punishment theory Why is that basically well because the victim basically has the right to do back to the aggressor what they've done to them And I have a theory I called a stop-all which is an old common law concept a stop-all Which means you can prevent someone or a stop them from saying something in a court or an official Proceeding if it contradicts what they've said before and my libertarian sort of take on that or insight is that if you've committed aggression Against someone you really have no grounds to complain if something similar is done back to you Which is basically the idea between I for an I or the Lex talionist right the right of retribution So in my view the whole basis of libertarian rights is based upon the right of the victim to have retribution or to retaliate Against his aggressor there was a recent case out of Iran where a woman had acid thrown and in her face and was blinded by a suitor that a sperm suitor and she instead of doing a whole variety of things including prison and Restitution and all these sorts of things she demanded the court put Acid and dude's eyes and so the court to yeah, they put acid as eyes from what I understand I'd have to go check you know the news story But as as I was hearing it basically she wasn't going back on our now Stephen aren't you hearkening back to barbarism here I mean don't we want to move ahead even though what you're saying is probably true that you know I for an I seems very justified in a lot of cases and I can understand why people would want to get retribution It feels like some sort of catharsis. I guess I feel like ultimately it would be very very unsatisfying I'd rather check And there's that yeah, and yeah, so I mean why are you going to bat for that? I guess well So what I'm actually agreeing with you I think that in practice especially in a free market system that this actual administration of punishment would be too costly And it would be too counterproductive to be to be really systematically enforced or institutionalized I think a restitution system would be what would be put in place But my point is that seems like the more humane system to me I mean as they say Blind and all he's saying he's saying it's the more likely to mm-hmm Yes But my point is that getting back to the millionaire problem that if the primary right of the victim is to basically punish their their aggressor What they would tend to do is use that right and they would negotiate with the aggressor for some kind of restitution payment And if you had a millionaire like Bill Gates who was some kind of sadist and what he thought he could go around and Just commit murder and just pay the victims families off That wouldn't happen because there wouldn't be like a fixed award set by a legislature like a schedule of fees Right, it wouldn't say a life is worth three million dollars and that's all that sounds really cold Yeah, so rather what would happen is you would negotiate and so if a billionaire commits murder then the victims family could negotiate with him they say listen we have the theoretical right to Subject you to torture and put you in prison for life or to execute you and because he's a billionaire He might be willing to pay five hundred million dollars or maybe ten billion dollars to get his way out of it So there wouldn't be a fixed penalty for crimes It would depend upon the circumstances and so the millionaire problem that you alluded to would basically disappear Because you're talking about the eye for the eye basis of this. I have no dispute with it I do there's some Scandinavian country that Charges people speeding tickets based on how much they're worth in some time like a decade ago Some dude got like a hundred thousand dollar ten thousand dollar speeding ticket I don't know what the number was but it was a large speeding ticket basically because it was worth a great deal and From a legislative standpoint sort of going after somebody on a sliding scale Punishment that bothers me, but when it comes to you know the right of the victim to Essentially it act upon the aggressor what they'd have done to them then I can see Why that would be an issue so Bill Gates for instance stole a hundred dollars out of the you know The wallet my wallet just sitting around a table from me He'd be liable for a hundred dollars and perhaps a punitive amount But that punitive amount wouldn't be that big of a deal Because it's you know, it's just still a punitive amount. However, if he did something to harm me bodily I essentially am able to go into negotiations with him and say look a hundred thousand dollars is not enough for a Broken leg dude and poor Bill Gates. He does not deserve this kind of These these analogies but so in your case you owe me significantly more than a hundred thousand dollars I'm gonna need to see 10 million bill Yeah, exactly. So I wouldn't be a decree by the legislature a sliding scale set by the legislature This will be the result of private negotiations based upon the victim's objective right to retaliate in Like fashion to what the aggressor has done to them and it just seems hard to me to say that the inflicting retaliatory Forests upon an aggressor like he's done to the victim really violates his rights now I do agree it's barbaric and that probably we wouldn't see that put into practice on a wise widespread basis But even if you didn't have it in practice you could tell the jury so right now the juries Have no standard or whatsoever you tell the jury just you tell us how much the damage It should be for what was done to this victim and they just make up a number ten million dollars one million dollars At least you could tell the jury you should imagine in your head What would what would have been negotiated if punishment was an option? So at least there's some objective standard the jury could take into account Stefan I really appreciate you coming on to talk about this with us here tonight very informative I like what you have to say and you do have a blog it's Stefan can sell a calm looks like you're updating it relatively frequently I Do and I also blog on intellectual property stuff on C4 FIF org sees the number four fif org C4 s is or F F a center for the study of innovative freedom C4 I F right I'd like to say that I often you know when I I go after Stefan can sell his bigger articles for the intention of sort of finding a basis Intellectually and philosophically I think that he he often parses out on a very detailed and minute basis Issues that it appeals to me for writings if people have similar You know desires to look at liberty issues in this way Stefan's writings are worth Taking into consideration Stefan. Thanks again for coming on free talk live tonight Stefan can sell it calm his website You can join us here our toll-free number is 855 450 free now It is the live Sunday edition and that means it's the same as always open phones about whatever you want to discuss Coming up the puritanical glee over the Ashley Madison hack. Maybe the Koreas are going to war troops are on alerts There's a lot that we can talk about but you can also join us 855 450 free. This is free talk live This is free talk live Ladies and gentlemen around at the United States and around the globe today took off their tops at various different Locations including Times Square where over 300 or around 300 Bear chest demonstrators were parading. We'll talk more about free the nipple that campaign here in a few moments And if you are there and you want to enlighten us as to what it was like Feel free to call us up toll-free number. I imagine it was like being around a bunch of people without shirts on Yep, 855 450 free. Well, I hope that's all it was. I wonder what the nudists think about this stuff You know like they're wondering around with no clothes on at all And it's just kind of like is it like watching a kid on training wheels, you know So proud of themselves nudists generally aren't walking around in public with no clothes They have nudist parks and beaches for that purpose mark sure, but I would suspect I would suspect nudists would be very supportive of this So if you want to join us here our toll-free numbers 855 450 free, let's go to Sarah listening in Virginia Sarah you're on free talk live with Ian and Mark Hi, thank you so much for taking my call go ahead with your thoughts I just wanted to see what you thought about a situation that happened today. I tried to send money to a friend's mom in need and The company I don't know if I'm allowed to say but the company Pretty much Made me wait for four hours. You can say what their name is. We'll just say allegedly in front of the company So what was the alleged company? I could send money within minutes With the application and yet it kept saying that was processing Yeah, this is just a I'm sorry to interrupt I am familiar with both of these organizations the main two players money Graham and Western Union And so I know what this process can be like was this your first time ever going through a money Graham send No, it was not. I sent some money to a couple of my in-laws Right before Christmas and how did that go? Well, it took more than a few minutes. Oh, yeah I was prepared for that. Yeah, but you know, I called them to find out what was going on after an hour And they said, oh, you know 15 more minutes and you're up for approval Okay, so I waited another hour and overall I spent Two over two hours literally on hold Someone to talk to me over several different calls and they kept saying you're up in line next few more minutes a few more minutes So at the end of four hours They send me an email and say they need additional information So I called them and waited on hold another half an hour And now they want to know why am I sending this person boy? How was the amount? May I ask? $500 okay and For me then this is why I'm calling you. It's not just a complaint, but my concern is if you have a violation of privacy To ask me why I'm sending someone money. Okay, so Well, yes, I mean, it's obviously a violation of your privacy. There's no doubt about that Can they do that? Yes, they can legally absolutely do that And in fact they probably have to do it legally there's probably some kind of law That they're following some sort of know-your-customer Legislation that is mandating all money's what they call so-called money transmitters now This is a legal term But you know, it's basically somebody who takes someone else's money and then sends it elsewhere to a third party And so these money transmitters are dealing with all manner of different government regulations that are incredibly intrusive and invasive to your privacy and so odds are good. They're doing this Simply because they have to in order to obey some kind of government dicta Which would mean of course that you have no leg to stand on legally as far as you know any kind of Threat of a lawsuit or anything like that. This is just how they do business and It's interesting too because usually it's the first time with money Graham in Western Union where it's a huge hassle to set up the account and go through all of the you know requirements as far as Identification and secret questions and then they you know takes longer than you expect it to of course Whenever a company says it takes just minutes. Well, you could have several thousand minutes that you could be waiting But I just felt like and I told them I said the reason why this person needs the money is none of your concern It really felt like a violation That probably set off some some red flags right there. So did it ever transfer through did it ever happen? Oh No, they refused right. I said my reason is that she needs money and I'm helping her Well, then they asked are you gonna be sending her more money in the future? I said well, I doubt it, but definitely not today You know and the reason is she's getting evicted. It's a friend's mother. Oh, man. She's been through a lot She lost her husband recently Usually when somebody needs money Graham, it's because it's urgent. Yeah, there's a big deal going on generally Right somebody needs money because something's happening that needs to be dealt with immediately and so people are willing to pay Incredible fees and they're willing to jump through these ridiculous hoops holding for hours at a time Just just so they can send these Federal Reserve notes these us dollars from one point to another through this old money system And Sarah are you a new listener to free talk live? No, I am not I I listened to you actually we only get your show on Saturday night Oh, okay, so you're calling you're calling in Norfolk Yeah, well, thank you by the way There's another reason There's another reason that you need to Consider here or something to consider and that is that you don't want to put your money in the hands of these old Companies anymore these guys they are so bad at customer service. They're so expensive Oh, what was the fee if I might ask you sent $500 what was the fee to actually send that 500 even though you didn't get Well, right? Yeah, even though it didn't happen. Do you know, do you remember? Okay, but going through another company would have been $45 So, you know, it can be done for a relatively affordable amount if you're willing to jump through the hoops and cross your fingers and hope that they Actually, you know approve the transfer and then by the way, there's also issues with the person picking it up So if if you send the money and you're successfully able to send it, but your person on the other end Let's say they don't have a government driver's license. Well, they can't go and pick that money up So it's just gonna sit there and there's so there's all kinds of ridiculous requirements on them to what you're getting to And is Bitcoin so if for whatever reason you were able to you know You had some Bitcoin and you could send it to this this friend and this friend could pay their rent in Bitcoin Then it would have cost you minutes and literally taken you I mean second tens of seconds. Yeah, it's not minutes You can you can send I meant to say pennies I meant to say pennies and literally it would have cost you pennies to send and it would have by pennies I mean two cents three cents To send it and it would have taken you tens of seconds to go log into your Bitcoin Well, it log into the account and send the the longest portion would be the logging in the actual sending of the money with Bitcoin is literally An instant. I mean it's confirmed It's it's seen on the other end within a flash of a moment. Yeah, I always double-check though because I'm sorry. I have heard You speak of Bitcoin, but I still don't have a full grasp of what it means. It just sounds like some You know bizarre out there concept that I just I mean, I'm studying from a master's degree. I mean, I'm not Right now I'm smart, but I still just don't I just don't fully grasp it. Yeah There's definitely a learning curve with Bitcoin and it is a new idea. It is a decentralized money It is money that is essentially internet money. It was issued by someone anonymous We don't even know who Satoshi Nakamoto is and it wasn't created by banks. It wasn't created by governments And basically Bitcoin is good for a lot of things and one of those things It's very good for is transferring money instantaneously around the world to anybody without having to ask permission first So there's no application process when when you go and you open a Bitcoin wallet It's as simple as downloading if you have a smartphone you download an app for your smartphone Open the app and you've got a wallet. So there's no, you know, fee. There's no applying There's no government bureaucrat that has to approve. There's no, you know requirements for Just jumping through ridiculous arbitrary hoops. So I highly recommend you look closer into it So is it safe as my bank account my all my information I would say it is safer than your bank account But it's your responsibility to protect yourself with bitcoin You are the holder of your own bank account unless you want to give another company the ability to hold your account for you There are companies that will do that like blockchain.info But by the default setting you are your own bank essentially with bitcoin So you'd want to protect your bitcoin wallet just like you would protect your real wallet in real life And it looks Is there a way like is it it could it potentially be profitable to You know like the transfer of funds with bitcoin versus dollars Well, when you say profitable you mean someone making money transferring bitcoin. I'm not sure what you're getting at Well, yeah, like, you know exchange rates like sometimes you can make money off of exchange rates with other countries And so I wonder if sometimes Yes, there are people who play what they call arbitrage Where they buy bitcoin at one Exchange and then they'll sell the bitcoin at another exchange to make money There are people that that do that and they play the market You know watch it go up watch it go down and we'll tell you how to get some bitcoin here in a little bit Sarah check out check out bitcoin.com if you want to learn more about it. That's a really great website Hour two is coming up. This is free talk live if worse comes to worst Will you be prepared you don't have to be a survivalist to prepare for the unexpected Storing necessary supplies like food water and emergency equipment is simply taking Responsibility for ourselves and our families when it counts the most strategic shelters.com offers emergency supplies and a secure way to store them and provides protection for loved ones in the event of an Extreme natural or man-made disaster to find out more visit strategic shelters dot com This is free talk live. It's the live sunday edition. You can join us here Our toll free numbers 855 453. That's 855 453 733 tonight. You've got Ian and mark So we were just talking about bitcoin a moment ago We had a lady on the line who was having difficulty I don't want to talk about the topless event here in a little bit But she was having some difficulty with money grant Which is one of the the two big players in Moving money or money transmission as the federal government calls it non-banked Money transmission. So, I mean, you know, you can wire money from bank account to a bank account with a relative ease And it's relatively inexpensive. Yeah, that's true. This is sort of uh moving service for a lot of people Which is a lot of people a lot a lot of people especially in international countries There are a bunch of people who are serviced by western union A lot of people in the like new york city when you're in the right neighborhood like china town or whatever every other Storefront has we've got money gram or we've got western union Either one or the other Because people are constantly sending money back home and to family members and things like that I recently heard a story from a friend who um, basic I think he had an account with bank of america and he was upset about a I think it was an eight dollar and fifty cent charge That the bank had given him and he decided that he was going to take his business elsewhere and screw them Um, you know, I'm not I'm not dealing with this kind of customer service And they ruined his credit over eight dollars and fifty cents Ruined it. He can't get he can't get a credit card. He can't get a bunch of things So, you know, there's there's problems with having bank accounts, but they have advantages too. So it's really it's a They are a double-edged sword. You got to be very careful with those things those people are gangsters Well, I mean that's a very Gen if I had an eight dollar and fifty cent dispute with a convenience store I think we could work it out without destroying my life for the next five years Those people act like bank bank those banksters act like gangsters. They have they have ends with the government They use the monopoly on force to get what they want. Yeah, I will stand behind that terminology I'm sorry. I'm not going to consider the nice ladies behind the counter at my local bank to be gangsters You don't think that the the the guys that run gangs have moms and Sisters at ants Look mark There are people in the banking industry because not because they want to use their connections with the government to screw people But because they do want to provide banking services to people that that's what they are driven to do Is involved in ruining someone's credit over eight dollars and fifty cents Edith as a bank is a gangster too I don't think that the Individual tellers are the ones that are making the decision to ruin somebody's credit I imagine that goes to some sort of review Some kind of you know There's somebody in the office that checks that information when they see that there's certain delinquent accounts and then they do certain things I'm not defending the what they're doing here mark But to just make this blanket statement that all people involved in banks are bad people I didn't say all people involved in banks, but I'm willing to go ahead and go ahead and say that The fact is right. That's exactly what I'm going to say you work at a bank You work for gangsters and if you work for gangsters Got some news for you. You're a gangster. All right, so I'm gonna bank gangster. Yes They act like gangsters. They operate like gangsters. They're gangsters Um, I will say that recently there was a court case Uh, I think it was in Germany where they found the guy that was doing the accounting at Auschwitz or some other camp where they were killing, uh, Jewish folks They held him responsible and found him guilty. He's like 97 years old The guy was the accountant Of the camp he took people's like belongings and stuff like that and and wrote down what they had So if they can find this guy guilty of murder Of being involved or accessory to you know, hundreds of thousands of cases of murder Then somebody who works at the bank who's involved in Muscling somebody over eight dollars and fifty cents and ruining their life for, uh, you know five years Are the contractors? I mean, look, I'm the first person to say, hey, the government's a criminal gang It's a criminal enterprise that uses the force of violence to achieve its political and social goals And you are willing to say that banks are franchises of the government because they work within the federal reserve system You're gonna say that a bank that everyone involved in a bank is in a gang Then you might as well say the same thing about everybody who ever accepts any government contract You might as well take, uh, you know take everybody who's ever worked on a road and also include them in that as well Like any uh, private construction firm that was hired to build a road or something like that Are they also gangsters? I don't think so. I think they're benefiting from the monopoly of the state There's lots of people who are benefiting absolutely. Well, what makes that how do the banks? Uh, qualify is different from everybody else. It's benefiting banks. How do they qualify? Yeah, I'm not talking about the federal reserve bank, which is obviously a very special bank with special, uh parameters surrounding it But just the average community bank or whatever Well, if they go and run someone's credit over eight dollars and fifty cents and by the way I wasn't talking about A community bank. I was talking about bank of america because I believe that was the uh, the one that was quoted in this Uh story as I heard a general statement about bankers. Okay, fine I understand. Let's run this to the absurd a one Location community bank that benefits off the federal reserve system that doesn't host That doesn't hold assets for the amount of loans that they give out Um, you know the variety of things that are done the federal reserve system is crazy. There's no doubt about that Yeah, they operate within a crazy system and are benefited in in that way And they choose to go after a young man who has uh, you know Dispute at an eight dollar and fifty cent charge and ruin his credit for uh, five years Then yes, they follow they fall into that same category So you're only only if they go after somebody with an overcharge like that is is when their bankster is just not By default because it's not like you meant everybody who was in a bank is defaulted gangster Uh, I think that there are people who run better gangs and worse gangs. Yep Yeah, generally, you know the the term gang evokes the idea of violence against other people like threatening violence Hey, you better, uh, you know pay up, but we're gonna make this store look pretty messy You know that kind of thing the I don't see that with banks Uh, necessarily your credit rating is really important for sort of doing business in life You can't get you can't rent a place. You can't get a cell phone You can't do a variety of things. So when you hold hostage that over again, I'm gonna go back to eight dollars and fifty cents Then yeah, you qualify as that person all banks in the same way that a loan shark who says look I'm gonna break your leg if you don't pay what you owe me is acting like a gangster Therefore being a gangster. Yeah Okay, so how many uh What should the amount be at which somebody overdrafts an account that and doesn't make good punishments should be Commensurate to the crime. Okay, and therefore I'm gonna have to look at each individual case in a case-by-case basis Our experience union and Equifax also gangsters. I don't think so necessarily somebody might be able to make the ones with the credit reports Somebody might be look There at the credit report isn't what's being held hostage here There are companies that sell gold and that doesn't make them bad people just because somebody might steal your gold Let's go the phones here. Uh rob is in pennsylvania. I'm still not clear on what you're saying though, marx You'll have to clarify whether every bank is a gangster or every banker or just the ones that hit people who have eight dollars in Fees, uh, let's go to rob listening in pennsylvania first though. You're on free talk live rob Hi, um, it almost seems like uh, this is may Sounds like uh, almost like a stage Argument between you two because no definitely not stage. Um, but why would you say that? I'd say that because I've listened to you Ian argue about You know with the robin hooters and the meter maids. Oh, you know, these meter maids are supporting aggression They're supporting the state and then I hear mark making this financial argument about, uh, you know The teller being connected to a financial gangster system And I listened to marx argument and your argument and you really believe the same thing When it comes to government and banking, but then you're having a disagreement Having a disagreement, but then it's just I don't know if we believe the same thing It sounds to me like mark believes that everyone working for a bank is involved in a criminal gang enterprise And uh, I don't agree with that. So I don't think we agree at all and this is definitely not staged I'm not sure what would make you think this is staged How could you, uh How it seems seems like you're having a disagreement to have some to have um content for the show I understand that you've said that like twice now. I could assure you this isn't staged He wants to be convinced if um, if I don't believe what you're saying mark I'm just curious to try to understand what you're saying to me There's a huge difference between somebody who goes around and threatens people on the streets with the theft of their vehicle Well, they don't actually steal them, right? Which is what they call someone who steals them for them. They uh, that is what they do That is what a parking enforcer does. He just hung up by the way Uh, that's what a parking enforcer does that's totally different than someone that's providing voluntary services at a banking institution Completely different and how mark you can say that uh, they're tantamount to one another or similar I'm still bewildered by so we'll come back here and you can share your thoughts with us At 855-453 that's 855-450-3733 if we ever stage something on the show We'll let you know about it like there was this one april fool thing like a decade ago that we did It's free talk live This is free talk live. You can join us here. Our toll free number is 855-453 Is mark being hyperbolic when he says that bank employees are working for gangs I say so you're welcome to call in and join us here or bring up whatever's on your mind still to come The topless events happening in something like 60 cities Internationally today that was going on. Maybe you were part of it. You can join us here toll free at 855-453 So we were talking about bitcoin earlier and Ian you said you're gonna tell I can't remember what the late the lady caller's name was but uh, you think sarah Tell her how to get some bitcoin and this is the easiest way to do it Also, it has the lowest fees. It's express coin.com lowest. I've been able to find Express coin com and they're the best choice for getting your cryptocurrencies. They've got bitcoin They've also got light coin and doge coin and dash coin and a few other things over there They make it fast safe easy and inexpensive They are a licensed money services business. They get your crypto currencies To you and all you have to do is pay with a money order or check You just start off at express coin.com. It doesn't matter whether you're in the us or canada They can make it even, you know, allow you to do it from your smartphone with their app expresscoin.com use coupon code FTL as FTL is in free talk live and you can get up to 40 dollars worth Of the cryptocurrency of your choice with for no fee zero fee express coin.com coupon code FTL All right, so uh, we're going to talk about the topless event that happened here in uh, new hampshire New york city dozens of cities all around the world. You're welcome to join us But uh mark we were this is for real. So like somebody called in doubting this discussion that we were having I'm actually shocked that you would be So callous towards the people that are working in the banking industry and it's not a perfect Business, it's certainly something that is absolutely a protected class of business by the federal government There's no doubt about that But it's not like you can go and open a bank and provide protection services for people's money and various different money services as well Uh, it's not like you just go and open your own warehouse bank Remember we used to have wane on the show with us a long time ago and he knew a guy I think it was in california who opened up a warehouse bank that was in washington state But it was somewhere in the west coast he got targeted and shut down because of that. He didn't have fdic insurance He didn't go through the typical banking channels And you know that's certainly there are certainly bankers who would have supported that man being shut down There's no doubt about that but in the same way that there are people in the radio business Who support targeting of pirate radio operators? There are also people in the radio business who support the pirate radio operator So to just paint everybody in banking with this brush of your gangster I've never felt threatened to go to a bank. I've never felt threatened In any way to use their services. They it is a limited competition industry No doubt there's a lot of critiques you can lay on the banking industry But you know the tellers are not criminals. They're not doing a criminal job. They're not in gangsters The um, so a gangster is somebody who operates a an organization or within an organization that is usually created by legislation So, you know running numbers or uh prostitution meaning they're doing something that's illegal drug running The opportunity was created to make money because of legislation the opportunity was um, you know created Be by legislation and in the same way the the government creating sort of regulations on who gets to be a bank And who doesn't especially you operating within their federal reserve system is remarkably similar to You know opportunities being created Legislatively so they fit that and um, you know also a gang is kind of characterized by Like the bad gangs and the reason people would use the terminology um gang characterized by sort of draconian punishments for stepping over the line um Now, uh in this case that I was talking about a young man had his had lost his Basically had his credit ruined by a bank. Um That had uh, ruined it over $8.50 a dispute over an $8.50 charge. This is someone you know Yeah, there's somebody you know too And we had he told the story right here in the studio off the air And I don't want to reveal his name because I don't know what his preference is as far as this goes So over eight dollars and fifty cents this bank enacted a draconian operating because they have a privilege created by legislation Used a draconian Punishment for sort of stepping uh, you know out against them And that is why I'm using the terminology gangsters now when you work for that organization and you see this happen once Twice again and again young people's credit being destroyed over and over and I've heard stories like this again I mean, I had a girlfriend that had a very similar story. It was some bounce check charges but You know, I mean there has to be a path back and when these banks don't have paths back That's when they operate like a gangster like gangsters do and when you operate like a gangster You're gonna get called gangsters when you work for that organization over a course of years And you see these things happen again and again and you turn a blind eye to it. Yeah screw you. You're a gangster My problem is Is that you seem to be just conflating all banks together calling everybody who's involved with banking gangsters But then talking specifically about a bank one bank in specific. No, this is two banks Remember, I gave you another example There are one was a local bank and one was a national bank You're talking about banks that have not created a path back allegedly We don't know we didn't ask this person who you're referring to at least I don't recall that part of the conversation of well, what would it take to you know? Make things right said he couldn't get another account with them I knew a guy who was had banking issues and that bank wanted $400 for the path back So there was a path back $400 for an $8 and 50 cent church. No, I wasn't talking about that guy That's the kind of thing I see though. I don't know what the amount was that he was uh in arrears Okay, I don't know. I don't know either all I'm saying is there was a path back You were acting like there's never a path back and maybe there is in some cases and maybe there aren't in others I don't know it would be interesting to actually have somebody who works in banking to call in and talk about this Because you know, they also are dealing with a bunch of scummy people a lot at banks who are trying to take advantage of the system And are you know crooks and are actually engaging in fraud So there is a there is a reason why some of these punishments exist. Are they all uh, you know used justifiably? Probably not but to say that just because some banks have done those things that all banks are equally as bad Or all banks are somehow criminal enterprises seems like you're you're really stretching Well, I look Ian if there's this magic bank out there that has reasonable fees for reasonable problems Then i'm for that but that is me giving an opinion They still operate in a system that has been created by legislation That gives them an advantage over say me opening a bank in competition and not asking the federal government Everybody in every legislative area. I mean anything with a license. They're protected too. I agree with you So let's you know our plumbers criminal enterprise too because they've got a license. I don't think cartel I don't think that they do if they operate a business that um, you know, like I gave two points, right? The two things that characterize your business as a gang, which is that they just essentially created a legislation And that you have sort of draconian punishments for crossing either of those things or definitions of a gang You're just making that crap up Maybe that's your definition of a gang but the actual definition of gangster for instance You were talking you called them gangsters specifically earlier the uh dictionary definition according to the free dictionary Is a gangster is a member of an organized group of criminals a racketeer A member of a gang of delinquents a member of an organized gang of criminals, especially one who resorts to violence Okay, so there's no violence involved in forcing people to go out and get a bank account Or to use the banking services. You don't need to do it There's a there's a system in place that that's like saying hey look, um, you know as long as uh You know if you use the roads, you're not a libertarian and that's a it's a specious argument I I wouldn't either but we have to have a bank account. That's our toll-free number 855-450-3733 I know you don't have to have a bank account to operate. There are people living off of bitcoin completely Are you searching for your soulmate someone you can trust who will never betray you or Co-operate with the nsa Stop searching with easy dns. You found a keeper easy dns does it all domain names web hosting and managed word press hosting Easy dns stands up for your internet freedom and with servers in canada. They do not cooperate with the nsa Go to easy dns.com. You'll love their services or get a full refund They guarantee it and they accept bitcoin. That's easy dns.com This is free talk live and you can join us here the toll-free number is 855 453 that's 855 450 3733 Uh, and you can also join us online. Just go to free talk live dot com Please enjoy the features that we have for you there if you get online whether it's through your smartphone tablet laptop desktop Whatever you use windows mac ios android linux We can help you protect yourself online. You can use pro xpn. It is a virtual private network They encrypt your online data which means that your bank Or anybody else that might be trying to snoop on you on the internet Will not be able to do so uh effectively because you'll be encrypted Through pro xpn pro xpn.com now. I should clarify. You're not encrypted when you reach the bank So that's probably not uh an accurate thing to say people who might be trying to steal your bank account information However would be uh flow mixed by pro xpn as well as anybody trying to monitor you So your internet service provider will not be able to steal your information either when you use pro xpn pro xpn dot com use code ftl 50 And you can get 20 50 off the regular monthly price for the lifetime of the account When you buy an annual account with that code ftl 50 at Pro xpn.com by the way, they don't keep any logs of your activities whatsoever at pro xpn and they've got more servers than ever before they're using open vpn the gold standard Of network encryption. It's the real deal and it works. Well pro xpn.com use code ftl 50 and take back the privacy That is your right whether you want to comment on the banking controversy here or Toplessness you are welcome to do so. Let's uh go into the daily mail story about what happened today all around the globe There was a lot of coverage given to hampton beach in new hampshire The free the nipple campaign go topless dot org However is also involved and they're the ones who are organizing dozens of Events all around the globe today on uh this this sunday as we're doing this live edition of the show According to the daily mail bear-chested protesters took to the streets of 60 cities around the world on sunday That's today as part of a campaign to free the nipple One of the biggest events for go topless day was a semi naked parade through new york city Where officials are debating whether topless tip seekers should be allowed in times square There's been an issue recently with topless women, uh, I guess offering themselves as photographic material You can you know get your picture taken with a topless girl That's kind of an interesting issue because I mean, you know, do we want times square turned into Essentially an impromptu nudie bar I mean many of the many of these nudie bars make make their money by gals who are wearing Very little including, uh, you know nothing on up top and then they you know kind of give you a private dance Which is you know tantamount to gyrating against you. I don't think that's happening I haven't heard that yet times square, but I think that the person who's arguing against this would say that's what's next What's next and you know, I wonder what the answer would be of anybody who's supporting The sort of the free the nipple campaign is is it okay for people to You know rub up against each other. I think public displays of affection are okay Yeah, I mean it's certainly something that some people are going to look at as tacky It's something that a lot of people are going to be uncomfortable about But ultimately I think people should be able to express affection publicly Well, I think that public displays of affection today can already be pretty classless and kind of grody and that You know, I I can see the point that people might have that are against this campaign Rachel jesse is an actress and model who leads the go topless group in new york city She explained that sunday's topless campaigners want women to have the same right as men to go topless in public She says our goal is for gender or equal gender topless rights to be enforced worldwide freeing women's nipples She said now in some places like new york city Hampton beach here in new hampshire and other places it is legal to actually be topless as a female In fact go topless.org On on their website where it shows a map of the different events that are happening all around the globe There are indicators on the map whether or not it is legal in each location For the protesters to actually be topless So there are still a lot of places where this is illegal and there were cities in which it is illegal where people did protest Today daily mail has a whole lot of photos. We'll post this link on our facebook and twitter here in a little bit. Yeah thinking about my argument there about the You know the the public Newtie bar, I don't think that it's likely so and the reason is you don't think it's likely someone's going to start Grinding on another person for a five dollar tip. I think for five. I definitely think they're not but let's let's call it 20 Um, I don't know what they're doing with these ladies are charging something for these photos on the streets I don't imagine it's 20, but I could be wrong. Well, um, my understanding. That's what private dances cost and These sorts of clubs. I haven't been in one in a very long time So street dancing is going to be cheaper though, right? Like I don't know the answer ian you know like I but I think that is unlikely because There are nudie bars in america where the girls wear have to wear something up top And that's wearing something up top is currently legal On time square, right? Like you can wear a very thin bikini on time square. You can be that's legal In new york city fine, um, whatever it is is that you don't see a lot of it happening With because of it's not because of toplessness that this is not occurring. It's not occurring already What's not occurring people being talking dry docking is not occurring with bikini women Let alone topless women. I got you dry dry docking being a slang term for a lap dance Something like that. Gotcha I prefer not to go into it police in mid mid man hatton blocked off several streets to traffic So around 300 topless protesters could parade throughout the city Appearing bare breasted has been legal in new york since 1992 But mayor bill de blazeo and public or police commissioner bill bratton are now trying to get semi nude painted women banned From the city's time square The women like many costumed characters in the square pose with tourists to get tips But de blazeo and they're less uh interesting or more interesting depending on your preference But I mean like these these characters they spend time getting dressed up I mean when somebody's spraying themselves all over and uh, you know shiny paint or whatever They're also I think shortening their lives. It can't be good for you to do that. Um, but no that lady died in gold finger because of that Skin can't breathe you These people are doing a great deal The gals are taking their shirts off. I guess they're born with with their assets. So, you know, whatever Governor of new york, andrew kwomo said the practice harkened to the pornographic so-called bad old time square of the past And uh, he these people believe that they are a nuisance that are trying to do something to put a stop to these women Using their assets to make a little bit of money Sunday's parade in new york was just one of many events to take place in 60 cities around the world for go topless day Although they called it free the nipple. So I think there's some confusion There was free the nipple in hampton beach Which happened on go topless day and go topless Dot org is different from free the nipple somewhat because free the nipple is actually a movie About the women in new york who had done this sort of topless activism. Anyway, there were several events It wasn't just a hampton beach in washington d.c One woman stood in front of the white house while posing like the statue of liberty One your arm is going to get tired pretty quickly doing that It well, you know, she made it long enough for the photo. I'm not for the picture Yes, uh in edinburgh scotland around 50 people mostly women took off their tops to the city's main street or in the city's main street The royal mile they staged a sit-in for two hours much to the amusement of passing tourists and shoppers Can you have a sit-in? If you don't actually have a place to sit in can you have a sit-in outdoors? I think it's a form of strike. It would be what it what it is But okay, I mean I get the idea when they say a sit-in I mean generally the when I think of a sit-in. I think you go into like a politician's office and It's a form of trespassing almost, right? Yeah, you don't leave. It's closing time. You're at the office and you're not I think you can call it a sit-in if you don't have your shirt on because there's an aspect of Illegality to it or at least sort of counter So, uh, you know counter moors, all right We'll talk more about what happened all around the globe today If you were one of the ladies or gentlemen out in support You can call us up toll free at 855 450 free Maddie is on the line in north carolina. Maddie. You're on free talk live Hey, how's it going guys? You're on the radio. Um, I work in the finance industry and I just wanted to Maybe share some of my experience With the audience and you guys in my perspective. Excellent. I definitely want to do that here stand by We're gonna get to you here maddie. Uh, he works in the said finance industry So I don't know if that's a bank. Does that mean he's a gangster mark in your man in your mind if he works in finance I don't know man. I'll let you go free talk live at 855 450 free. You can take control of the airwaves It's free talk live the live sunday edition you can join us here on the radio waves at 855 450 free Whether it's banking or toplessness. We will talk about it here on free talk live We got more to say about the go topless free the nipple events that we're going on Globally today that's still to come also your calls and thoughts about whatever you want are certainly welcome as well Our toll free numbers 855 450 free. We've got skype skype username tonight is lrn.fm joining you in studio It's Ian and mark don't forget you can join the amp program for five bucks a month and help get free talk live into more ears all around the globe And it's really helpful for us when you join the amp program So thank you to everybody who has done so everybody whether they're a past amplifier or current or you're considering it I really appreciate it. It makes a big difference for free talk live It allows us to more effectively market this show and get on more stations Bring more internet listeners on board and you get perks like access to the amp only call in lines amp only Facebook group which is a really great group and more go and get all the details and get signed up with any major Credit card through paypal or visa or mastercard right over at amp dot free talk live calm That's amp amp dot free talk live Dot com we'll go back to mattie who says he's in the finance industry Mark earlier sounded like he was calling all people working in banking gangsters But he clarified that it's only the people who work for banks that will screw somebody's credit over an eight dollar overcharge That kind of bank right mark draconian You know the ways of dealing with customers and maybe that's all of them I don't know but mattie you're on free talk live go ahead. What what did you want to share? I totally get that and I love the concept of topless banking. I think that that would be wonderful Yes, now that is a way that a bank could really Yeah, I guess set itself apart from the the competition. I'm surprised that hasn't been tried go ahead Differentiated self and in the market. Yeah, no doubt. Um Yeah, so I I work with deposit accounts and I guess what I wanted to contribute was I've seen a lot of instances. It is the consumer's lack of education And knowledge on how even basic finance works They call this a lot of those types of issues And and i'm not trying to justify or condone the actions of the financial institutions. Yes It's You know, I I'm just trying to do my thing too. I'm just trying to make a little bit of money myself Yeah, I think that um people do I think uh, I think people are ignorant of how uh, you know finance tends to work and these sorts of things Everybody gets behind um when it comes to you know bounce checks and and you know shortfalls and and that kind of thing And it's not like the banks don't try to get that to happen, right? Like they'll make the uh withdrawals on the day before they make the deposits After them and that's a pretty crappy thing to do. So if for instance, um, you make a deposit after 2 p.m Ian yeah, I fall so you make a you make a deposit at 3 o'clock in the afternoon And then you go out that night and you make some withdrawals off your debit card at Call it 11 o'clock at night. There's been many hours between those two things happening So a reasonable person might assume that hey, I'm covered because the bank's got this You you you may get lucky, but it's it's just as likely if not more likely that the bank will say, okay Here's all your withdrawals have racked up and now we'll make your deposit at 9 a.m And you're there for you have overdraft charges and you know, you've got to pay them Yeah, knowledge is power. There's no doubt about it I The deposit agreement the contractually binding documents that the deposit or it enters into with the deposit institution When they hear the account or use the debit card clearly defined of the terms of the contract or That particular consumer they do make it real clear what the fees are I mean, it's not you know, it's not like it's hidden I've seen websites that have like really weird things in those terms of service like they um, you know They want your soul or your firstborn child. Do you think that that is a legal and binding contract if you click? I agree to it. I mean if you agree to it, then Yeah, but I don't know okay. You're not a gangster. You're a psychopath Oh, I'll I'll agree with mark on if you think that the terms of service me clicking I agree and not reading the terms of service means that you get to take my child from me and turn him in to say I don't know a slave of yours. Yeah, you're a psychopath, dude Yes, that contract is not binding because it is not fair It's not even really a contract. I'm gonna be on mark's side with this Although I think he's being mean with the name calling tonight Uh, I I think that in the case of these these terms of service Almost every terms of service that I've ever seen has some kind of statement about how they can change the terms at any time Some of them don't even require them to give you notice of those change terms Generally, the banks will give notice. They'll send you a letter full of really micro microscopic print that you don't read Yeah, and so, you know, the if you can change the contract at any time. You don't actually have a real contract Uh, in my opinion and let me ask you this if I wanted to send the bank Changes of terms to the contract. Do you think that it would be binding in any way? You could try scratching some of the terms There have been there have been decisions out there. There have been you pick it up, man There's no he's right. Maddie's right about that. You can change terms Yep Yeah, you and they can refuse to accept it. You know if you just won't have a bank account You can go through the the bank account agreement and cross out the fees if you want to and they're probably gonna say no But you know, you could in theory try to do something like that Maddie. I don't think that you're a psychopath You don't think he's a psychopath for saying that it's okay to take people's kids away. No, he's not saying that That's that's a far cry man. That's rendition right there. I I was speaking tongue-in-cheek just playing double back Thanks, Maddie for the call mark's just in a mean mood tonight. I appreciate it Thanks for the call our toll-free number. You should have gone and seen some breasts today mark Maybe it would have had a calming effect on you Yeah, 55 453 855 450 3733. I didn't go either. I didn't go to the Hampton beach Free the nipple thing it's two hours to go to you know participate in that event Yeah, it was a long way away and one of the things that happened Uh that went wrong. I think with this particular besides the bad weather here in New Hampshire It was rainy and kind of cold today at the beach Um besides that they canceled the event on facebook in the morning And I think that may have uh contributed to fewer people than who would have come out Otherwise it would have come out coming out. We'll we'll talk more about the topless event Bruce is on the line in new york or excuse me not new york city north carolina bruce john freetalk live Hello gentlemen, how are you doing listening in ashfield at w w n c go ahead I guess you call me old-fashioned and I do love the female body But if you're gonna have it in a bar or on a nude beach I could go with that but for women worldwide who want to just walk around. I think it's trashy And slutty. Why is that? Why would you is it trashy and slutty when a man does it? He shouldn't but it's it's I gotta say it's different. You gotta know why why because he doesn't have That's female He doesn't have that female Basically, I don't know how's that different and children walk around looking at these women Walk around down the streets in the supermarkets Aren't you just a hypocrite though bruce? I mean look there's no difference between a man's breast and a woman's breast between a man and a woman I mean That's you really Shooting low here, you know There is no difference besides average size between a man's breast and a woman's breast And besides the fact that a woman's breast is more likely to lactate. I mean really you're talking about baby feet I'm dripping going around the street. Yeah, I think lactation is a different issue I just it's morally wrong Okay, that's my in and uh as far as mark laughing at that girl that died in goldfinger. I think that was pretty pretty bad That was terrible. You really trashy. He's being nasty tonight. You know, it's uh make believe He is it's make believe that. No, I just I just think the world would be a lot better off If people kept their tops on if women kept their tops on is that what you're saying? Kind of yeah, I don't understand the hypocrisy though. Why is it okay with you for a man to be your top? Excuse me I guess you're not very much of a male if you can't see the difference I didn't ask you what the difference was. I already told you the difference is that women's breasts tend to be larger than men's Breasts there are obviously some men that are exceptions to that and some women that are exceptions to that rule So that's the difference. It's one of the big differences But I still don't understand why it's okay for a man to show his breasts Is it wrong for a man to show his breasts if he's a big man? Do you see wanting to go around without your shirt? I see it a lot during the summertime Well, yeah, that's okay. I think that's okay. We know you think that's okay. That's because you're a man, right? Well, yes, and I am so it's okay for you, but it's not okay for women Why because their breasts are bigger? Well, there are men with big breasts. So why is small ones? So why is it okay for a man, but not a woman sir? This is real simple Because it's a sexual Organ does that mean you can't control yourself around a woman with her her top off? I just find it disgusting and to be you think sex is disgusting No, I told you I love women Man, you got some issues. Hey, thanks for the call tonight bruce 855 450 free that's eight. I love women, but don't you dare go around with your top off He mentioned grocery stores and I imagine men can't go in grocery stores with their tops off 855 450 free join us here hour three of free talk live coming up New Hampshire is under quarantine as walking corpses devour the flesh of the living Max is 11 years old and surviving alone Slow moving and non-thinking the dead swarm his home Now he must apply his porcupine freedom scouts training to improvise his escape Look for survivor max on facebook read reviews on amazon or read chapter one at survivor max.com This is free talk live it is hour number three of the program live sunday edition Of course, we'll take your calls about anything you want to discuss a lot of people attended at various different cities around the world The free the nipple aka go topless day That was happening in new york city as well as our very own hampton beach here in new hampshire where About two dozen women apparently showed up and were topless I want to talk more about that event because apparently some people feel real strongly about this Even though they can't really explain why uh one guy um a moment ago explained to us tried to explain to us that It's sexual so therefore women shouldn't when pressed He really had to be pressed to get this out of him Uh, but what you know, he claims that the difference between a male being topless and a female being topless is that it's sexual for a woman to Be topless, but aren't there women out there who go gaga over a topless man with you know a six pack or whatever? Well, I think that uh, you know, what is sexual is uh arbitrary, right? And there are women who go gaga over a topless man, right? I've seen this if a woman wants to You know if a woman wants to not wear a shirt she should be treated under the law the same Now mostly this isn't about necessarily the law as much as it is about societal pressure And because it's legal in new hampshire to I don't really care what your what your what your preference is if it's not illegal Like I think you should be able to in your own mind come up with whatever conclusion you come up with Upon seeing somebody without their shirt on that is what a free country is about So if men can walk around with their shirts off then women should be able to too now, obviously it depends on the place Um that they're you know that they're at Um and that sort of thing So if a business say wants to let topless men in and doesn't want to let topless women in I further defend that business's right to do business that way. Absolutely. So that's all I've got to say About public property here not private property. I think most women don't really care about this particular right I think the vast majority of women are like, you know, no, thanks I'm not going to be going topless whether you're not I get the right to do it or whatever one of a Lady around here that we know says she doesn't while she supports them She's not willing to go out and do it because she's worried about what will happen at her job So a lot of women I think support this mark, but they're afraid to come out And be seen supporting it because of this stigma That is attached to it. We can continue the discussion here Especially if you were actually out at one of these topless events today all around the globe We'd love to hear what the uh, you know, what was it like for you? Were there a bunch of creepy guys around just leering at you? Uh, did anybody get arrested? How was the reception from the other people who are around you? Let's continue though with your calls and thoughts. We've got skype. Our skype username is lrn.fm And that's where will coley is on the line from tennessee from muslims for liberty. Hey will Hey, what's up guys? Welcome Thanks for having us. Yes. Um here Funny enough. This is uh, this this toplessness discussion is uh, uh, a debate that's been going on in society for Well over a thousand years in truth If you look at old historical documents discussing the time Of the the prophet Muhammad living There were women from certain tribes who walked around in the marketplaces in mecca and medina bare-breasted because it was a uh cultural tradition of that particular tribe and we know that that's something that continued to happen For well over a hundred years after Muhammad's death because you see other scholars like imam malik Uh complaining about this practice still continuing Uh on into like the eight hundreds Now just to clarify something I mean the common understanding about a lot of the people followers of islam Is that they're very very restrictive measures. Everybody's got to wear a green sack over their head They're a very restrictive measures specifically for women in the way that they can dress and I can't imagine that Uh toplessness is generally considered acceptable in any kind of public or in many I imagine private settings Uh in that religion But it sounds like what you're saying is the muslims were tolerant of uh those those ladies in that tribe Well, yeah, because it was their culture. They weren't held accountable to uh islamic dogmatic You know Practices because they weren't from the muslim community. They were from a specific pagan tribe Um, most of them are described as africans So you have and you know, we still have some of those african tribes that exist today that you can see You know discovery channel and national geographic videos about you know, these african tribes that still continue to go topless in in the modern day So, you know, the the previous collars, uh You know making it out to be a trashy or You know something of that nature if if it's something on a cultural basis If it's something that a culture sees as as appropriate, I don't see how you could Attach that kind of a connotation to it and if a person from our culture has decided that they feel That this is something that is liberating for them individually Then I I just I don't see how in a free and individualist society, which america claims to be that That should be denied to them that they should be denied that ability to say, okay Well, this is what I feel makes me feel free or this is what me feel makes me feel more comfortable Did the prophet muhammad say it was cool for women to uh go topless? Well for muslim women muslim women have a specific amount of modesty that's expected of them on a religious basis But women who aren't muslim that doesn't apply to them because well, they're not muslim So why would it well, obviously in certain countries there are rules for all women, right? And uh, yeah, unfortunately They they decided that they knew better, you know, these are modern political leaders that rather than deciding to follow the example That was left and leaving Different peoples to do what they choose to do right they chose Uh a hegemony over principle So I've read an excellent book that your friend dobby barker wrote voluntary islam And it really goes into some detail. It's a short book, but it's it's very interesting On how very voluntarious friendly the the true kind of orthodox muslim belief system is And what you're pointing out here is that there are certain power seeking People who consider themselves muslims who are the ones who are enforcing these rules But the the and that politicians today in the united states apparently are more restrictive than muhammad was Yeah, basically. Yeah, I mean because like I said, this is a something that we know from the writings was taking place During his time when he was alive in the marketplace in mecca and in medina And that it was still continuing in the in the time of imam malik So at least 80 to 100 years later because he mentions the practice still happening So now we know that not only has was it something that the prophet muhammad Saw in his own time But it was something that he left alone and those people who came immediately after him who knew him directly Also left alone. They didn't outlaw it. They didn't say that, you know All these women had to cover up and follow islamic guidelines like the saudi government does That they left it be that it wasn't there It wasn't their place because it wasn't their culture kind of thing about the saudi government Um, this is something i'm unclear on uh, the the wahabiists as i understand it are kind of People that don't necessarily have the sanction of government, but they don't have but they're not controlled by the government either So somebody might go out and chase in a woman for not wearing a veil or for driving a car or whatever it is that their preference is And it's not like there's necessarily a law that supports that person This is my ignorance by the way, and i'm willing to be corrected. There's not a law that supports that person It's just that there isn't nobody's going to do anything to stop them because they've got god on their side or whatever No, no, no, there are there are actual religious police that are that are endorsed by the state and saudi They go around and enforce religious doctrine that comes from the wahabi sheikhs, which are um, they're a patrilineal religious uh leadership the the The current al-sheikh Uh is a direct dissented Descendant of muhammad ibn abdel wahab al-sheikh, and they there's been a Alliance between the family of al-sad and the family of al-sheikh for a couple of hundred years and that's Was that's what it looks like part of part of that whole like, you know, try validity for each, you know Like the religious group needed validity through political strength and the political group needed Religious validity, so they basically created a symbiotic relationship got it and validated each other But that was you know that was back in like the 1800s when all that stuff happened Always good to get the muslims for liberty perspective on things. Thanks, uh will for your call tonight He dialed in on skype. You can do the same thing our skype username is lrn.fm So, you know, that's good to know Uh, and that's what I figured would would be the case having read voluntary islam great book highly recommend that you can get it over at fpp.cc And you can join us here toll free at 855 450 free, you know, I'd like to say that um, I think it's really great when You know liberty leaders like stefan concella, and will coley call in to this show There's more coming up here. This is free talk live This is free talk live the live sunday edition continuing here topless events happening all around the globe today The daily mail Reuters, uh more articles are coming out basically as we speak There are about four of them before we started the show now a couple dozen are out there I'm working on putting one together for free keen.com. I'm trying to find a picture of the ladies Where they are not censoring themselves There's a photo on the daily mail Where there's a line a line of the ladies that were out in on the beach It at hampton in Earlier today and apparently the weather was kind of bad So they actually were underneath some sort of uh, I don't know. I've never actually been to hampton beach But some sort of covering there's some sort of covered area Haunting type thing that they were that they were in and they're I imagine the Photographers since they're photographing for these mainstream media publications They can't allow nudity to be shown in their photographs So they probably ask them to cover up from what I understand There is a version of this where the ladies are uh are actually showing uh, you know their toplessness To the cameras So i'm looking to find the uh the uncensored version of it if you happen to have that Please feel free to send it over to me at en at free talk live.com Since I blog over at free keen.com, which is an internet based site There are no such restrictions on me And so I feel like the whole point of the topless event is for people to be topless and equal About being topless. So should show it as it was, you know, not the censored version of it if we can't So there's news here from the daily mail I want to continue with what happened all around the the globe today for go topless day or Aka free the nipple, but also bitcoinist.net is where I want to send you to learn more about bitcoin In fact, if you're already into bitcoin bitcoinist.net is great because they are a destination for information about the bitcoin And digital currency industry the ultimate resource for bitcoin industry news reviews education and the latest from the crypto currency ecosystem The bitcoinist.net website. That's b i t c o i n i s t bitcoinist.net They integrate a community forum. They've got breaking news for bitcoin and other digital currencies Plus they're covering fintech and blockchain tech news whether you're a beginner to bitcoin. They've got a great beginners guide There's also sophisticated bitcoin network statistics and more go to bitcoinist.net And it is the platform that serves the need of everyone to look looking to keep up with bitcoin and digital currencies From beginners to experts. That's bitcoinist.net as we go to the phones to the fun Let's talk to james in arizona on skype. Hello james Hello james sound like you hung up. No, he's still there I'm so sorry miss will phony from muslims for liberty who to correct the record that mark edge on one of his f Facebook pages that he put on the internets about me because he gets his rocks off smearing me uh mark edge last time i tried to challenge the uh The phony to something that he said about brandishing cops brandishing weapons on peaceful muslims in oklahoma last october Which didn't happen by the way You can google it. There was a interesting news story with the woman that was dressed like a member of the kkk But in a brown suit instead of a white one with eyes. I have no idea what you're talking. I know I know you don't have any you can't go all the way back to a call that happened in in october And expect people to know he does know what i'm talking about mark. Do you know what he's talking about? I remember him talking about fish James talking about it at one point minister edge may i respond to your comments that i noticed you took down from the internets as well Because I actually did respond to your comment on your f facebook page about me But those comments seem to seem to have disappeared. I don't know why are you referring to the things James witt says facebook page A mark and e and both know what i'm talking about but for the benefit of the listeners Yes, but mark all of a sudden knows what i'm talking about but won't respond because mark Did you take down a post that you'd made about james if i did i don't comment I'll come down the post. Are you moderating comments? I don't think so. Are there other moderators on that page? Where are yours? I don't know the answer james. I don't know what you're talking about. That's the answer Then i'll rewind remind the audience that mark edge said I didn't know what I got tripped up by Will phony because I didn't know what I was talking about Well, the question that I asked will phony knew what I was talking about because it was his words I know he remembers suggesting that cops were brandishing weapons on his friends But he switched you know, what's really great on national radio James's little nitpicking about people on the internet words mark edge on look james what I want to understand here I'm I gotta say i'm confused. Are you so what you're saying is that mark deleted some comments of yours on the James witt facebook or the things james witt says facebook page Is that what this call is about? Hello All right. Well, thanks for the call if you don't want to talk then we can't have conversation on the radio So it sounds like he's upset mark that uh some comments were allegedly deleted from the things james witt says facebook page This is a page you've created because james this man who just called will sometimes send what you consider to be threatening Uh statements to you via our skype messenger spends a remarkable amount of time talking about my death Yeah, he doesn't specifically say he's going to kill you had a couple of threatening statements But there have been some things that you've been concerned with yeah And you have decided to create this facebook page to I guess catalog some of these statements Sure, um, have you ever erased a statement that you have posted on there? He said well, he said it was comments not the original post Have you been moderating comments on the james witt page if I did do it? I did I don't do it on a regular basis Um, and so I couldn't say one way or the other uh, like I just don't remember doing it if I don't remember it Okay, are there other moderators? I can tell you this I am beyond the point of dealing with james witt fairly right like I I've moved past that point whatever this is until that man starts, um, a Apologize me. I don't know if he has to apologize for threatening me He just has to start acting differently and like, you know not acting like sort of a belligerent weirdo Um, and if he stops acting like that Then I'll pull that page down like I know that that page upsets him But I think that he loves it because he goes on there and he comments away like he's a he's a star on that page Oh, really? I mean he's I haven't been to it for a long time. He is now I mean now that he's on there. He's got him made himself a facebook profile with no picture Right. He's just got that little blank facebook thing. Okay, and then he just goes on there and rambles on Are you sure? Yes. I've seen the writing style enough. That's how I get these these aren't I don't go through the the, um, Archives and listen to the show. These are just cutting pastes from our skype here where he'll you know Prattle on and in the process threaten us So just to clarify, are there other people who are moderators of that page? So it's you your page. Yes Okay, so if somebody erases a comment that it would be you. Yeah, and if I did you don't remember that I love the fact that I did it to him. Like I just don't care You know like my page and you're a psychotic weirdo So, you know, whatever if it may if it makes him crazy fine good So anyway back to topless ladies and gentlemen there were some gentlemen that were topless in fact according to one of the attendees at Hampton beach today. She said I just got another like at things james witt says great. Congratulations. Just saying So anyway, the topless event one of the attendees said there were probably 40 or 50 Apparently 40 or 50 people that were in attendance in total Yeah, about 40 or 50 the more excuse me about 40 or 50 supporters And then maybe about two dozen or so women that were there lots of people there We're taking pictures and many of the ladies were more than happy to be photographed with some of the people that were there with their cameras We'll talk more about it and you can join us here with your thoughts at 855 450 free That's 855 450 3733 were you at one of these topless events that happened today? And hopefully it was uneventful. Hopefully nobody got arrested. I haven't heard of that yet, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen so Share your thoughts 855 450 free plus coming up the puritanical glee over the ashley madison hack The three most important things you can do for free talk live are one share one episode a week on facebook And some other social networking site two buy the things you buy online through shop dot free talk live dot com Three give five bucks a month to the amp program It's my firm belief that free talk lives amp program is the best use of your charitable dollar among liberty oriented organizations Support all the organizations you love, but make sure you give five bucks a month to amp at amp dot free talk live dot com approximately 300 people attending The topless event today in new york city's time square And many more in cities all around the globe something like 60 Cities participating in this event that happened all around the globe today dc However, only had one woman standing in front of the white house She was posing like the statue of liberty edinburgh scotland had about 50 people mostly women taking their tops off in the city's main streets They staged a sit-in for two hours there and hampton beach in new hampshire bare-chested women and men Took part in a photo call to show their support for the worldwide movement Although the weather was not particularly good in new hampshire today for this go topless had been Urging both men and women to stand up with topless pride on august 23rd To honor the 95th anniversary of women's equality day and to support the passage of the equal rights amendment Now, I don't know what that is. I don't know what the equal rights Amendment is that is that something from like 95 years ago? Or is that some sort of thing they're trying to promote today? They said the passage of the equal right right amendment. Yeah, okay All I I was a kid when this was going on, but I would say this was the early 80s there was a movement to get an equal rights amendment and I think it was mainly based on women and The idea was equal pay things like that it's actually 1923 it was introduced for the first time Okay, well, there's a push. I'm gonna say in the early 80s. Yeah, there was a ratification deadline of march of 1979 Okay, for this. All right, so I guess it was a long long time in the works. All right So, uh, let's see also spokeswoman rachel jesse said centuries of gender inequality and exclusive male rule created major Planetary imbalances that could prove fatal to society. It's time for change It's liberating. What to do with taking your shirt off Uh, it's liberating she said and empowering great women to free their bodies from repression freeing nipples and bodies Freeing minds or freeze minds as well restoring self image and self esteem And I think that these ladies have done a great job and I really I'm bummed. I didn't go to some extent But there were a couple of issues that prevented me from doing so because I've you know, I participated in the infamous Topless Tuesdays that happened here in keen about five years ago now Actually one of the more controversial events that liberty activists have taken part in Here, so I I was of the mind to go and participate in this but the problem was And I understand why they did this but the facebook group that or the facebook event for this Event that happened in hampton beach today Specified that there was no time that people were supposed to show up There was not a specific location beyond hampton beach, which I imagine is a fairly large place And so there wasn't any you know specific location or time So the idea was and I understand what they're they were thinking the idea was well This is a normal thing that we need to make this normal for women to be seen topless And so the idea was just show up and go to the beach So you bring your family you bring your friends or whatever you bring yourself And you just go to the beach and you have a day at the beach as a topless person And that was kind of the the the concept there and I get that I can understand why they wanted to do it that way But at the same time like they didn't want to be a spectacle people are buoyed by the presence of others that agree with them They're that's true. You know they emotionally strengthen numbers. Yeah strengthen numbers and I think that they would have had the I think it's a better idea to put a place and a time And you know put it at a time early so that people can get there early and then stay as late as they'd like But that way they are surrounded by people who Support them and that sort of thing now apparently they did find one another some of them did because because they wanted to Well, yes, there's that but the weather was also bad And so the whatever few people were actually at the beach today because it was apparently rainy and somewhat cold in Hampton Beach, New Hampshire They all kind of coalesced underneath one particular structure there And so it was probably a little easier for them to find one another given that the beach wasn't packed with thousands of people As it could have certainly have been had it been a super nice day today So that was one of the missteps of the event was that there wasn't a specific time and place to meet And so I didn't want to go out. I didn't know what the weather was going to be like first of all But I if the weather was nice, I certainly didn't want to go out and just you know Show up on a beach with thousands of people and okay now what right? There's nothing there's what do I do there? Right, I mean I can go and play some volleyball go swimming or whatever But you know I can go to any beach any day and and do that I I'm definitely interested in The activism side of these kind of things and so that's why I think that the upcoming event that they're supposedly planning In Laconia, I think it's gonna be more interesting because Laconia is the only place in New Hampshire It's a relatively small city On the in the so-called lakes regions sort of on the eastern side central eastern side of the state They they do have an ordinance a town ordinance against being topless as a female And that is contrary to state law. So it's an illegal ordinance But apparently it has been enforced during like the bike week that they have there. I imagine that's why it exists this bike week And and as long as people just pay the fines then no one challenges the illegality of it So these ladies are now planning an event which has yet to be announced as far as which day it's going to be But that's going to be happening in Laconia in downtown Laconia And there's no way you're not going to have a spectacle that way right You're going to commit civil disobedience against a bad town ordinance that you need to have a time for There needs to be a very specific location You don't want to have people dispersed throughout the city of Laconia If you're going to be doing civil disobedience, you're going to have people together in one place for the reasons You specified why people want to be in groups mark. It's especially true if you're actually going to be You know facing arrest for for doing this So we'll continue to update you as that story develops The other big mistake that was made today with the topless equality event in Hampton Beach Was they had this facebook event? Which was huge Over 1100 people said they were attending this a few hundred people said maybe 1100 people that's a lot of people for a protest event in a place like New Hampshire It's a small place. So I was pretty blown away by those numbers now. I know that's not going to be what shows up I knew it wouldn't even be I was hoping, you know, even on a good day I was hoping to see a few dozen people and there actually were a couple dozen ladies show up and then a few dozen more supporters Uh, we're there. So I think considering the weather considering the fact that there wasn't a specific time I thought that was actually a pretty good turnout But the thing they really blew was the night before so last night Somebody posted on the facebook event that tomorrow morning we were going to delete the facebook event And I didn't understand why that was but I also felt like, you know, these ladies don't really know me I don't really feel like I should make a stand and say, hey, you shouldn't do that. Maybe I should have posted I don't know if anybody did but here's why that was a terrible idea. So anybody that's organizing an event keep this in mind When you delete the event everyone gets a notice that says such and such event was canceled I did see that. Um, actually they I got that and I I think I I don't think I said I was going to go to that event Um, so I think you got the notice. I was invited Did you say maybe Probably not. No, I don't I don't really click anything on regardless You got the notice that it was canceled Right, but I bet you didn't go to the event the night before and and read the post that said Hey, we're gonna cancel the event in the morning, but don't worry. It's still happening Yeah So had anyone happened to have gone that night and read the event page Which probably not even a tenth of the people on that page have bothered to do on a regular basis So basically no one in the event saw the fact that the event organizer was going to cancel the event in the morning But yet it was still on and all they got was this notice saying the event's been canceled So that probably was a besides the weather Another major contributor to why some people didn't go to the event in Hampton today Yeah, I can't imagine why they chose to delete it, but I'm sure they had their reason I don't know what the I can't even unfathom what the reason some some tactical reason, but I don't know what it would be All I can say is as far as the toplessness goes it seems to me the very few women are interested in You know being topless there were over 1100 people who said they were going to attend that and it was mostly women commenting in that group There there are 1.3 million people in America and in New Hampshire And there may be people who came from outside of New Hampshire too. So yes, I get it And I'm not saying that I believe that I have to support people That are looking for more freedom in their lives Even if it's an issue that I care very little about So they have my support It's just that they don't really they haven't captured my heart as it were So, you know, there you go. Well, I'm grateful for them. I'm glad they went out and did it I'm looking forward to round number two when they actually go and do civil disobedience in Laconia I will definitely be there for that That's worth the trip 855 450 free that is our toll free number We've got skype as well. You can join us here skype username is lrn.fm We'll talk a little bit about puritans here in moments. And of course, you can join us on the radio waves 855 450 free that's 855 450 3 7 3 3 This is free talk lives live sunday show This is free talk live Whatever you want to discuss can go if you dial in toll free and join us here at 855 450 free with you tonight You've got ian and mark 855 450 3 7 3 3. Don't forget. We've got skype skype username is lr n Dot fm since we've been talking about the topless events and we actually had one relatively puritanical sounding collar who Was totally fine with women Well, well he wanted women to keep their shirts on but he was totally fine with women or a men keeping theirs off Which is the whole point behind these topless events is to make Women and men equal In society's eyes, it's already equal under some of the laws under some of the the statutes In some states like here in new hampshire It's technically legal for women to be topless in public But that doesn't mean that it's done commonly And it doesn't mean that there isn't this social stigma that we experienced earlier with this collar surrounding that Now a related story from first look dot org, which is glenn greenwald's new website new ish I guess this has probably been around for about a year high school students He writes have long read the scarlet letter the 1850 novel by Nathaniel Hawthorne said in a puritanical It's a story about a woman who used to live in a town in the mid 17th century It chronicles the life of a woman who was found to have committed adultery And as punishment, she's forced to stand before her village with a letter a attached to her dress The intent is to forever publicly shame her for her moral transgression As the Atlantic noted in 1886 the punishment of the scarlet letter is a historic fact Historical fact the moral premise of that it's also a legal thing Places there's no legal. It's basically a social thing about not women not being able to go topless The moral premise of that ritual is animating its animating righteousness is by no means an obsolete relic of the puritanical era It is as vibrant as ever Busy body sitting in judgment of and righteously condemning the private Sexual acts of other adults remains one of the most self satisfying and entertaining and thus the most popular of public spectacles It simultaneously uplifts the moral judges Distracts them from their own behaviors because they're focusing on other people's sins and thus not their own And titillates to condemn this. I simply must immerse myself in the tawdry details of their sexual acts He's writing that in parentheses to see just how current is the mentality driving the scarlet letter Observe the reaction to the ashley madison hack Ah now we've been talking about this hack over the last couple days here on the program As you know there are now as you may know there are now more than 30 gigs worth of data that has been hacked and released From this website that promotes itself as a pro infidelity venue where married people can find sexual partners and have an affair There was even a guaranteed a fair package where if you paid $250 a month They would guarantee that you would have sex outside of your marriage And that probably meant they were hiring a prostitute, but that's another matter The data published by the hackers includes the names physical and email addresses and credit card purchases provided by the users Along with whatever information they posted about their sexual desires and proclivities The primary justification offered by the hackers was that the scout the site was a scam They claimed the female profiles were fake and the site demanded payment in order to remove users profiles But ultimately they did not remove the data as they promised Uh the hackers of course portrayed themselves as fraud fighting vigilantes They threatened to release all of the user's data unless the site owners remove the site completely But there was also a significant component of sexual moralism to the hackers self-described mission in their original manifesto They echoed the moral paternalism offered by gawkers max reed to justify his site's outing of an obscure married financial officer of a magazine company the hackers proclaimed too bad for those men They're turning cheating dirtbags and deserve no such discretion Unquote in yesterday's statement announcing their data dump the hackers directly lectured the users They were exposing with this sermon for one. We have no clue Whether these people are cheating or not Now i'm not gonna say i'm not gonna say that i that i believe that a lot of relationships in america Are open relationships, but i i will say this that if uh if you are in an open relationship My guess is it's a lot easier for the gal to uh to go out and get some strange that it is for the guy And that um, you know these guys may very well have been using this service for that purpose now the website States what it's about But that it would serve a married man in an open relationship well because he would be getting a woman who is not looking for A relationship in the same way I can see what you're saying I think that's true mark that you can't say for sure what each of these users were up to on Ashley madison's website. However, you can presume that uh, many of them were likely looking to have an affair Well, I that's the stated purpose of the website But you could also it could be a guy who's not in a relationship at all That's just not looking for ties that wants to tell a woman. He's in a relationship that way He's just you know, he isn't dealing with the women that are trying to get in a relationship Well, that's why they have tinder for though, right? I don't know look I don't think tender has a lot of holder guys on it would be my guess. I don't know the answer Learn your lesson. I don't know either learn your lesson and make amends said the hackers embarrassing now, but you'll get over it Unquote the cheating scoundrels of ashley madison got what they deserved was a widespread sentiment yesterday despite how common Both infidelity and online pornography are tweets expressing moralistic glee were legion Websites were created to enable easy searches of the hacked data by email address An australian radio station offered to tell listeners on air if their spouse's names appeared in the database And informed one horrified woman that her husband's name did The washington post actually promoted those newly created searching sites under the encouraging headline How to search the ashley madison leak Helpfully linking to a site that will quote tell you if an email address or phone number Appears in the leaked files when the leak was first announced last month the post published a similar article Headlined was your spouse on ashley madison a new breed of private eye is ready to help Hmm the names of prominent figures appearing in the database have already been published some of whom insist they never use the site It's hard to overstate the devastation to some people's lives from having their names published as part of this hack Not only to their relationships with their spouses and children But to their careers reputations and depending on where they live possibly their liberty or even their life What appears on the internet is permanent and inescapable All of the people whose names appear in this database will now be permanently branded with a digital a Whether they actually did what they are accused of will be irrelevant Digital lynch mobs offer no due process or appeals And it seems certain that many of the people whose lives are harmed or ruined by this hack will have been guilty of nothing Because it could be hard to explain if you're not in an open relationship To someone who is your lover that your information was found on this website Even if you didn't actually do it right because you could use Anyone's email address to sign up for an account things get a little stickier when someone uses your credit card data To run a charge on an account under your name then it starts to look a little bit more like you actually did this yourself Uh, but you know there are situations that someone could get into here where they're accused of being a user of this site And they weren't well hold on um, there was a situation with uh the guy from the who I can't remember what his name You know, I can't say I'm a big uh remembering of names of entertainment people but Um, you know those that care will remember his name that sounds right where he was investigating online child porn So he claimed so he claimed well, why would you think he was doing in something else? Isn't it more likely that somebody's investigating how easy it is people say it's easy to find child porn online How do you know it's easy because somebody told you or because you went and checked yourself If you believe it's because somebody told you you You know, you're the what's you're the what's wrong with this world because you just believe crap people tell you If you went out and found for your um tried to find out for yourself. Well, then you run the risk of getting arrested This is one of these problems these conundrums. So people could be going on and simply investigating Ashley Madison by creating an account and if they created an account, but they didn't buy anything I don't think they're guilty of anything other than just sort of You know, why wouldn't this is about having to explain that to someone who is you know Finding out on their own that their lover was on this website could be a difficult thing to do right? Like oh, no, I wasn't using it for the intended purpose of the site as glenn greenlaw points out here Some might just use the site as pornography because it titillates them Or because they're attempted attempted to cheat but are resisting the urge Or because they're married but in a relationship where monogamy is not demanded Or because they're researchers or journalists observing this precinct of online interaction or countless other reasons This permanent highly public shaming of these so-called adulterers is not only puritanical But reckless in the extreme since many who ended up branded with the scarlet a may have done absolutely nothing wrong This underscores how invasions of digital privacy can be misleading as they are invasive It's similar to the nsa's analysis of metadata with whom one communicates Where one goes to determine who is a terrorist and who should be targeted with drones Algorithmic assumptions of those sorts can lead to looking at someone who visits taliban hotspots and communicates with al-qaeda members And declaring them based on that data to be a leading terrorist when in fact the terrorist is nothing more than the pakistan bureau chief of al-jazeera Engaged in that behavior in order to do his job But let's confine ourselves to a discussion of those who actually use the ashley madison site to cheat on their spouse with the worst possible sense of the word namely used it to find and have sex With someone outside of their marriage despite a vow of monogamy Even in that scenario adultery as adam johnson put it is a moral misdemeanor Something the law does not even punish to destroy someone's reputation and life over it is so wildly out of proportion To the actual transgression put the rest of the story on our facebook and twitter You can check it out. I think it's excellent And you can share your thoughts with us on it tomorrow at your leisure or bring up anything you want That's the point of free talk live and Join us online by the way in the meantime over at free talk live.com if you're not on our facebook and twitter You can find those at news dot free talk live.com and that'll link you right to it See you tomorrow Keenvention is coming up fast october 30th through november 1st Get your tickets now at keenvention.info Keenvention is an intimate event where you can meet dozens of key liberty activists from across the shire Including oathkeeper chris reatman libertarian presidential candidate daryl w perry radical agendas chris can't well Neocache radios dr. 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