 My name is Doug O'Keefe. I co-produce these chats with Christina, who's here and she's doing the filming for us this evening. And with Mistress Joanne Gatti, the purpose of these chats is to record for posterity the stories of the people who shape our community. I have the pleasure this evening of interviewing March Summit under an hour. And then at that point we will turn off the cameras and we'll have an open Q&A and you can ask whatever you'd like to ask. That's when some of the best questions come up. Well, March, let's just start right at the beginning. Please tell us where you grew up and a bit about your family. Originally I was raised by my grandparents and I grew up on the north side in the Logan Square area. And I actually went to that school that called on fire and I can't remember the name of it. Our Lady of the Angels of Christ. I actually went there before the fire. And then my grandparents raised us, my brother and I, until I was 12. And then my mother married somebody who finally was taken to two kids. So we moved to the south side towards Avenue and I went to Chicago Vocational High School. Graduated from there, maybe. And that's about it. Did you know anyone who was lost in the fire at the school? No, no. That was a little after I was there. But I remember, that's loud. I remember when I was on the north side with my grandparents behind our house where we lived. There was this big commotion of cars on the streets. And there was a German couple that they arrested for because it was from the war and they were spies. And that was like something that the whole neighborhood had to run out and say, you know, it was a big deal. Do you know what spying they were doing? For Germany. You don't know, was it atomic secrets? No, I wasn't old enough to really comprehend all of that, you know. I could care less who they were spying for. Well, as a youngster, you worked for the local phone company and you had a very interesting experience there. Please tell us a bit about that. Yeah, during high school I worked part-time for the phone company. And then when I graduated, I went full-time. And I had already come out. When I was in high school at 14, I met my first girl there. And that was it. And of course my mother found out that I was gay, so she politely asked me to leave the house. And I said, fine. And of course my darling brother said, you could stay in my house, just leave my girl alone. And I said to him, I go out with prettier girls than you do. So I went for the phone company. And I was always out. I mean, I looked at me. There's nothing feminine about me, you know. But I would have problems at work with the bosses. So then I would find out who their girlfriend was because they were usually married and having girls on the side. So I would make sure I got involved with their girlfriend and take them out for a couple drinks, take them home, have a little fun, let them go back. And then the boss never bothered me anymore. It was wonderful. And that was in the 50s, so yeah. I was a bad kid. Yeah. Well, how did you know that these women would be amiable to that? Oh, they let you know. There was no problem there. How did they let you know? They just say, I'd say, would you like to go out and have a drink? And they'd say, I'd love to. And I said, can you get your boyfriend to give us the money? And they'd say, yep. And I said, OK, let's go. So let's take a step back. You mentioned your mother didn't take you coming out. What was your relationship there? How did that transpire? With my mother? Yes. I didn't like her. See, my grandparents, when my grandmother, her and I, before she passed away, we had a long talk. And she told me that when my mother was pregnant with me, my brother was always in Europe. And I was the one coming out. But she had gone upstairs. She was living, I guess, what would be my dad's house. But I never met the man, so I don't know who to know who he was. She tried to abort me by throwing herself down the stairs. She took hot muds through baths. She beat on her stomach. And when she was going to be born, she went up to the attic and something to my grandmother, who lived just a half of life, a way to come over. And she went up there. And I was out. And my mother was sitting there. And my grandmother says, tie the cord. You've got to cut the cord. And tie it. And she wouldn't do it. If it wasn't for my grandmother, I wouldn't be here to aggravate all these women. So I was not wanted to be in with, so I didn't care. When we were preparing for this chat and discussing some of its topics, you mentioned Calumet City afforded you quite an outlet. So please tell us about that. Calumet City, well, first there was a bar I believe it's around 99th of the Southwest Highway called Little's. And she was a gay woman who ran a bar. And we were allowed to go in to the side door. And she would put us up and say, oh, there's my bubble tea. And all these straight people bought it. But we couldn't dance or anything. We could just drink in her bar and have fun. And that got boring. So then I found Calumet City. So state line is where the gay bars are. And it was the music box, which was the woman's bar. And right next door was the ups and downs, which was later called Mr. B's. And then later on, when the music box closed, down the street was our place, which was the bus bar because that was mixed. And I love mixed bars, you know. Why did Calumet City have these things about the city of Chicago? Because they didn't have Mayor Daley out there. He didn't like us. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Fascinating. Mm-hmm. What strong memories do you have about your days in Calumet City? Anything stand out for you that was unique to that situation? Yeah. I met a lot of interesting people there. I mean, people would think it was weird because some of the hookers used to come in our bars because it was safe. They could come in there and have an actual drink and not have to produce, you know. And I would talk to them because they were interesting. You know, most people think that guys go to hookers because they want to get... And it's not that, you know. They want things they can't ask their wife or would you put a frozen sausage up my ass? You know, or something like that. Or wear a feather and run around naked and, you know, and tap the doodle-doo and the guy can talk, you know. And then they call us queer. Okay. Outlights. I mean, I loved it because I had learned so many things from these people. They were interesting. Why do you even have to take a second for that on myself? Oh. You said that the gay scene during your high school years was very restricted. Please tell us a bit about that. It was very hard. I mean, you couldn't get caught, you know. I mean, you had to be... You had to have a fast car. That's the first thing. If you didn't want to get beat up, you had to have a fast car. So I had a GTO, which was pretty fast. You know, because, you know, you pass these teenage guys, they have people, you know. And so you had to take them off running. You had to be very careful in those days, you know. If it wasn't the mayor's people getting it, it was the teenagers, you know. What was the duress code you mentioned? No. You couldn't wear fly-front pants. It should stay buttoned like a man's. So if you were in a bar, like when the volleyball got raided, we all had to run in a van and turn our pants around, put them on backwards so we could get out actually. That was called male impersonation. I didn't have anything down there. I wasn't impersonating anybody. I used to don't wear it public. You know, I needed it. I just didn't. I just didn't. But wasn't it something like you had to have three items of women clothing? Yeah. That was hard because I didn't like to wear brows. You know, I still don't. My aunt bought me a training bra. They called it, you know. And worked. They trained them. They stood up and I didn't have to wear it anymore. I was like, alright, I like this. They trained them. They got out of it. Well, at least tell us about the Chicago Bar Ways. You had to keep something in your shoes. Yeah, money. To be allowed anybody that got caught. I was in the Midget Bar. I'm a matriosh of the Keds. We were out there. I can't remember exactly where. It was on the second floor. The first floor was a straight bar. You went upstairs in the back of the bar. There was this room. It was just all gay women. And if the cops came, you just go to the window, kick out the screen and jump on the second floor and take it off from it. But then the cops got wise and they were waiting down below underneath the windows for you. Especially during elections, you really had to be careful. They took you to State Street with all the hookers and throw you in there to sell the hookers. So much fun. What did it cost to mail somebody out? 20 hours. Get back then. Do you know how many of these raids you ended up being a part of? I didn't get caught. I was a good runner. I didn't want to spend the night there. I'd mail a lot of people out. But I never got caught because I ran. Or I was smart enough that I'd drive back to Cadillac City and hang out with Derek. This is how we say it there. One street is all gay and the next street is all hookers. So what do you want? Wow. You're a high school girlfriend. Let's take a look. You're a high school girlfriend. Your high school girlfriend. Let's take a step back. You mentioned your high school girlfriend. You had a very convoluted relationship there. Please tell us a bit about that. Oh. Well, she was... I met her in high school and we went out. It was really cool. Like almost downtown. We went to the movies and I drove her home all the way back there. There was a hail storm. I was 43rd in the house and I lived in 100th. So she said, no, you better stay overnight. It's not good driving home. I said, okay, so I called my mom. I said, I'm not going to come home. That was the end of it. We were friends, you know. But then later on, I would call her up and say, hey, you want to go to the show? She'd go, no, I have something to do. I went, hmm, okay. But in the meantime, you want to go do something? She said, no, Pat and I are... Oh, okay. She said, we're going to the show. I said, listen, can you wait? No, she lived in 63rd. So I drove to 63rd. I got in her car. We drove to Pat's house. I got in the bathroom and I needed a blanket. I waited for her. I took the horn for her to come out. She came out and she went, hi, buddy. And I jumped out and went, hi, buddy. So we went out and got drunk. And getting drunk in those days was going by in a bottle of orange juice and a bottle of vodka and sitting in your car, you know. Yep. This is beautiful. Tell us a little bit about your work that you were doing at that time for the phone company. I remember when we were talking about this, you had a very interesting system that you were employing there at your work. I worked on a mainframe, and Watts systems, you know, which I don't know if anybody remembers what Watts were. It's a special system that the phone company made up for businesses. And I would have to do research for my boss all the time. And then I'd do it all and then she'd take all the credit and get the dinner and get the candy and all that stuff. So they set up a big, big thing that they wanted done and she said to me, can you do it? I said, sure. In the morning it was supposed to be you I called in sick. Oh, pity, she didn't have nothing to turn in. She wasn't happy with me. She couldn't be there to candy with me, you know. What were the logs though that you had to maintain at that time? You said that you had the log calls or something like this and people would take your logs. You had to type, when you were typing for whenever the operator would fill out a paper form and you had to take those and actually type out a bill from all of those. And then they'd go into another room and they'd calculate what it cost them to do all that. Those were the days I tell you. IBM cards were fun. But your dad had an interesting hobby. Please, speak with us a little bit about his movies. Yeah, well, my stepfather. I've never done my dad. I love my stepbrother. I already had him for four years and then he died. But he taught himself everything. He only went to the second grade of grammar school and he was so intelligent. He taught himself to be a photographer and to develop pictures and he would do trick photography and things that nobody was doing, you know. That dark room and I would work with them. Then he'd go to the mill and he'd go to work and lock it up. I know what's in there. So I thought, hmm, never lock the door on Marlon's because he doesn't like that. So I thought I ought to get in. I got in, found the projector because he would get these guys from the mill that would come and he'd say when so-and-so would come he's going to give you four hours but I knew they were slow with the bag and I'm thinking, why don't you pay four hours for a Mickey Mouse though? And it was silent. It wasn't even sound, you know. So I set up the projector and I called my brother one day and I said, what? You gotta see what I found. I was porno movies. It was fun. Who was he like? Who was appearing at him? I don't know. They were silent movies. They were horrible. They were horrible. It didn't look like fun to me. I'm gonna tell ya. Well, you've said you're a gay woman and not a lesbian. Oh God, don't break that up. Everybody hates what I say. But I am. I am a gay woman and I will stand my ground on that. I have always loved more gay men friends than I do gay women friends. Because I love their company and they're not drama. You know what I mean? Well, you're drama to yourselves and they're drama to themselves but you and me, we don't do drama. You know what I'm saying? We have fun together. In fact, I found a picture of all my old, I called my old girlfriends and I gave them all girls names. Dan was Dan of May because he was Polish. There was a whole bunch of them and they're all still alive. I'm happy. They're all over the country now but I found them all. They're all my girlfriends. Tell us a little bit about them. What about them stands out for you? Oh, the fun we used to have. We'd go to parties. We'd go to straight places and like this one guy, Dan, he was a good dancer and we'd dance together and nobody realized we'd be doing attraction and stuff and he'd say, do you think they're going to know? I said, no, they're stupid. I'm doing the lead. They don't know it. I'm doing the boy's part and he's doing the girl's part. We come out of the dance room and they go, hey, you guys are good dancers. Thank you. I can't follow. I've never followed in my life and I take my little boys and they follow for me. I just never learned to go backwards. And I can't wear heels either. So I can't make ginger oddries either. How did you enter the bar business? That was a quirk. At one point I was working for a colleague feedback at night. I would be like her kind of a half-assed manager because I was working downtown for shell oil and computers and I would get off at midnight and she said to me, would you mind going in? She had to get in this, which was a great drag bar. And she said, would you mind going down and just, you know, watching the bar clock it out and tell me what I need to order, put the money away and stuff like that. I said, sure, no problem. I started hanging around different places and I ran into a guy that wanted to get rid of PQ's, was called and I used to hang out and then I heard that Eddie Dugud was going to open a bistro and I said to him, you better clean this bar up because I'm going to tell you something. Right now you're packed to the reactors but once Eddie Dugud opens you guys aren't going to have any business. No, no, no, no, we'll be okay. Eddie, you can open. You could go to through PQ's with a full stick sideways and not hit anybody. So he got frustrated and I said, okay, I'll tell you what. I'll run this bar. Let me clean it up. I want to change the name to Miz which was my initials and that was my niz outed and we could run a cool gay women's bar. And we did. It was a great bar. Everybody was welcome and we had fun. We had a ball team and my daughter was the good luck charm to the ball players. It was a great bar and when it finally went down I was sorry to have to close it but it got to the point where I had to close it. What years did you have that? 70 to 73. But it was a lot of people don't notice but one new year's day after the bars you don't get liquor deliveries right after the new year's eve so we opened that night and we were running out of vodka and it was about 15 to 20 below zero and I said, well let me put it on the street because I do a couple of the bars on the Erie and the gay boys had a bar but theirs was closed so I went to Joams which was on State Mary I said, do you have any extra vodka? I'd like to borrow some or pay you for it or whatever and they said, I went okay so I'm heading back to the bar and I get just to the alley and I hear three quick footsteps don't scream and I thought, oh no you're back in an alley at 15 below zero you're crazy and I hear the disco music in my bar and I thought, no this ain't happening to me and he threw me down and within a split second it said, get your ass up Marge and I did and I just kept punching me and punching me and I kept my head about me and I finally waited for him to lose his concentration he dropped his glove and to my bottom never caught him either because when I get in my bar of course I was bloody in half clothes half ripped off of me and I said, this fucker tried to rip me and I want him, I don't want to kill him I got my keys to my car my gun jumped in my car next thing I had four dykes in the car with me and I said, okay we're going to go look for him you're not going to hurt him take his pants down six bullets for his dick nothing else he won't hurt another woman as far as I'm concerned that took a while to get over well please tell us a little bit about the gay scene here in Chicago in the seven days it was cool it was cool, I like it see I don't know I frequented all the bars I'd go to little gyms women gay women wouldn't go to little gyms because it was an all men's bar they sure have dirty pictures I love those pictures because I made fun of them you know that was before he went to movies he would show a picture and this guy's thing would be laying on its side and I would see he'd play with it for so long he'd broke it you know but though they're in the morning before I go to my bar and the manager and I would just have fun but I had good times with all of them there's some neat bars and the sad part is there's no more women's bars because women don't drink as much as men and don't go out all the time and that's the story you've mentioned a couple of times that there were a lot of really neat bars which ones really stand out for you? ah together this that was relatively nice bar that she had a phenomenal drag show there uh Sparrows oh god, here we go Kings Ransom there's another fun one there's a lot of waist bars and drag bars Gold Coast, I love the Gold Coast downtown I used to stay there at night we'd carry chanches and we'd close the bar and get totally wasted we never could end up at a girls bar there's a lot of bars but then we had the Swarm Club there's a nice bar and when you buy a nice bar it's still around that's amazing there's a lot of great ones to go to I mean then we had Miss and Hers how did Miss and Hers came about after the Miss the guy that let me have that bar had a bar on Lincoln Avenue and the same guy that was running PQ's was running that I said okay, let me have that let me have your bills and I'll take care of it so he said okay, so I changed the name to yours and hers, I'm Lincoln Avenue it was now where it says do not enter for the parking lot but so it had a little kitchen in the front and I thought oh this is cool so we had the kitchen and I said my mother at that time was a singer so we started doing a little bit of music and Judy Tanuda was one of our first people she finally admitted she started his and hers, thank you very much after all the beers I had a buy for people to stay there so they wouldn't leave but they didn't understand her either I did, you know but that's how it started and then when he sold the building to the hospital we had to go look for another building so I looked around looked around and I found the one on Addison with the help of a bunch of nice gay guys that are summer here, summer gone we got that together and that became the best bar I ever had you said that his and hers had the best open mic in the world also talk to the old town school of music I'll tell you that Michael Smith and all of them came there and performed and I had a thing I didn't want to discriminate anybody but if you wanted to play in my club you had to do a free gig on Sunday for open mic so I could hear you God bless, they all did it but you know it was really strange after all of this is done I'm on the L station waiting for a train one day coming when I was working downtown and there's always musicians down there and it's cool I will give you money because I know it's rough being a musician so I put $2 in this guy's guitar case and I stepped down to the train and he said thank you March so we evidently performed at my club at some point so it made me feel good you know what challenges did you have with his and hers? difficulties, challenges anything that made it interesting to run well, the neighborhood was a little I think the Latin kings around that neighborhood and when I first opened this guy came in and looked around I called the patrolman he had a coat over his shoulders and a cane and he looked around and looked around because when I took over the bar they go okay, Puerto Rico forever so we got word of all that so anyway he's looking around he goes you need protection I said oh, from what? you could have a fire oh no, you're not going to do this to me Rudy I said you know what, this club is heavily insured set it on fire I can get out of this goddamn Puerto Rican neighborhood and get a nice bar and he left and then I have a problem with some of the leather boys coming to little gyms to my bar they get jumped by the Mexican guys, the kings and I had to go out and explain to them look, if you're going to smoke I'm not going to call the cops on you but if you touch my customers I'm going to call the cops they're not gang members, they're simply gay boys and the reason they wear leather is because Kremlin wrinkles so much that's my favorite line today and that was it, you know I treated them fairly you don't mess with my people and I won't mess with you and it worked, we never had a problem how long did you have the bar? almost 20 years what made you give it up? the city took it away because I wasn't established it couldn't be that we did the gay dollar campaign and pissed all their aldermen off and pissed Mr. Antonopouloukas for the secret service in Chicago, made a fool out of him let's explore that a little bit I did want to ask you about the gay dollars what was all that? okay, my buddy Frank Ellis who ran vocals down on Park Street I was in this bar one day and I said, you know they're complaining about the Evergreen Food Store because they wrote a bad article that they're about the gays don't let them sneeze, I didn't touch you you didn't get AIDS, you know this is why AIDS was like everybody was afraid of it and I said, yeah, but they're picketing and gay people are walking through and the gays are picketing and the gays are going and shopping what's the sense of that, you know so he said, well, what do you want to do? I said, I don't know, let me think I was in the bar I said to him, how many people you can get he said, I think I can get one I said, okay, me, my daughter you, and he had me be there at 9 o'clock in the morning on a Saturday at the Evergreen so we met there of course we called Kit Duffy in the meantime told him what we were doing went there, loaded up four shopping carts heat to the rafters with everything we could find and we'd stop in the middle of aisles shopping because we'd be talking and blocking the aisles but I said, no perishables in the carts so I don't want to do it so we did that and when we got ready to leave our carts in each aisle and nobody could move them and we walked outside and Kit Duffy came in and she said they will be back every Saturday morning unless you put a retraction in the paper and make a sizeable donation to an AIDS organization and he said, hold on got out his check book it's $500 enough he said yes, in fact that it was so he brought out a check she came out and she said, okay, it's done so we thought, that was easy so we went and had breakfast and I said, what did you do about the city hall bullshit, you know so I thought about it, we designed a stamp we got $17 million stamp and not a lot of people like Kevin running in their wallet it had to be a red stamp we got to make it red so it shows up, you know what was the city hall doing that was so bad it wouldn't pass the ordinance what impact do you feel the gay dollars had for the city for the community I think it helped get it passed because nature's health couldn't get it passed it was a bad one but Frank and I both paid for it he got audited for four years I got audited for four years you don't mess with the government unless you're ready to take the ship and then throw it, should it I said, okay, fine I'm not doing nothing wrong but then when it came time they wanted to make a bigger L I ain't giving up them how did the community respond to the gay dollar campaign no, nothing but as a bar owner and as an established member of the community how did you confront the AIDS crisis that was hard that was hard, I lost a lot of friends a lot of friends and all you do is visit a banana hospital and offer to be helpful that's all you could do I mean I cracked a couple of them in the head at your shades and I said, I hope you have a rubber on that thing in your mouth, you know I mean, you guys didn't come out seriously you didn't take it too seriously for a long time and then they said wouldn't they come out with this thing dental dams for women by getting a ham sandwich through a plastic bag dental dam you don't want to eat it, don't go make sure what's going in there before you get there that's all sorry, you know me you can tell me by now I can't change by the way my daughter is 40 oh my god how did you come to have your daughters on you when I had the Miz one of my customers she said to me, why don't you know you'd make a great parent you'd like kids, I said I do I get involved with women that have kids I could care less about the women I like the kids and I didn't like the way they treated them she said, well why don't you be a foster parent think about that so I did I got four foster teenagers my first one was Brighton and then I got three other teenagers so they were very troubled kids and I had problems with them I really didn't want to go into too much detail but I had to give them back because they created problems for me with Tonya I almost lost her but I kept Tonya I had Dr. Tonya and I kept Tonya in touch with her real mother because you should know who your parents were not that I ever found out a very old man a garbage man, who knows but I wanted her to know that this is the woman that gave birth to her where is she now? in Virginia that's why I need a copy of this what does she do in Virginia? she plays mommy she has two wonderful children my granddaughter is gorgeous my grandson is autistic he doesn't talk so she's very useful but she married a great man I made sure whenever she brought him home not married, that's not marriage material nope, that's not marriage material I took him out for her when she was younger when this age thing started and I said you better be down, she's going to be making it with some boys eventually brought some rubbers home I said no love, no love wow you're telling me it's 14 I said if you think they're not doing it at 14 you must be dreaming somewhere honey we don't do it at 14 we didn't even know what it was all about at 14 but these kids nowadays they know everything so I taught her it's okay as long as you're protected how different rather than we rephrased that you've seen the community evolve over the years how different is it now from when you were young I liked it better back then it was closer, more camaraderie more friends you could walk into a bar and they didn't have to be wondering if you know anybody in that bar or if anybody I'm walking into a bar now and they look at me like what the fuck are you doing here I said I'm here to check the bar stool I got for you it's just that's part of I guess growing up but I liked it when we had our own places and we had neat things and it's great people found out we had better bars than they did so now they want to hang out in our bars tell us a bit about your movie crimes of hate that was, yeah you know made a lot of friends with that one that was Gary Chichester and Bill Vonnardy who had lost a friend who was beaten and murdered behind Christopher Street and there was they were attacking and raping gay men and killing them and so nobody was doing anything about it and the bars more or less put pressure on the papers if you produce anything you can put advertisement in there the Lerner Booster kept putting things in there so we decided we were going to produce this movie crimes of hate so we had everyone on Halsted Street we interviewed people there and they all admitted that even if they got jumped they never reported everybody was afraid to report you got to report, you can't be afraid and that's the way it started so it aired three times on channel 19 mm-hmm it was really fun all of us on a Saturday morning downtown at Chicago Cable Access RJ and Gary Chichester drunk out of our minds still in the morning trying to do camera work oh my god it was fun, we drove crazy but you had to take the class to be able to get the cameras out you know who carried the camera not the big guys this one why were you having to carry it because I'm the only smart one no, I had worked with cameras before so I liked it it was interesting I thought it was a pretty good little piece we did we proved our point how do you see the community today regarding that violence issue is it a better situation? no, it's still happening on Halston Street there are problems, there always will be I mean I don't care how many rules and laws you pass you have to reach the people and stop pointing fingers at everybody you know I mean if if you take a black man and rip this skin off do you know he's black? no, do you know what I'm saying stop, not this you know and we don't want us children thank you very much you need that for the straight voice what's the biggest nice conception about you? that I don't have any heart what are you laughing for? you have to go home with me tonight I want you to all know the love of my life right here Janane and I met on Facebook and we were on app and it was just kippetson I was kippetsing with maybe from Starbase we always kippets on Facebook about certain stuff and she joined it she's interesting and we got to talk and I said we'd like to meet for a coffee I said well we can meet for something I don't know I was just looking for a friend I had just finished my boutwood cancer I just got a gear clear I was looking for anybody because I was balled at it by then and I had this crazy hand that my friend Ari who was the very beginning of my talks was my type buddy she came in from Phoenix, Arizona in front of this crazy baseball cap with air sticking up out of it and I all thought I never lost my hair and I would get in the elevator and say goodnight but she's like well we can meet for coffee well in the meantime she gave me her phone number and I had found out that she had a lover for 40 years who passed away from lung cancer and I thought oh god I have to tell her I'm balled I'm going to meet her which is going to go for a walk around the lake so I don't know if you know it but chemo is natural right? where are you? it is natural it steps the shit out of you and so I tried a walk I tried to exercise as much as I can because I've lost a lot of strength and I said to her I don't know I just want you to know that when you meet me I'm going to be balled because I just finished my chemo and she said that's okay she said no I know people that are balled so we met and we walked around the lake we had a nice talk and we partnered our ways and when I got home it was an email from her and she said I won't give you a microphone and she said if you're not really interested so that's what you should say she said I have feelings and if you're not interested let's cut it off right now I said no I'm not ready to cut it off because I think I finally met my soul mate yep you go back in time and revisit any spot in your history what would you want to revisit and why? hmm I don't think I want to go back there no no I mean it's memories and I liked them but some of it wasn't good times you know I had a lot of rough times in my life I lost my house I didn't have a house, there was a running house and a fire and Thanksgiving I spent watching it burn down I had nothing I had a couple of fires like that and that day you couldn't get renters insurance so everything in your home was a total loss yeah so no I like it where I'm at right now hmm well that concludes the formal interview this lady sure went through everything that I had to ask