 Hello, hello, hello, everyone in YouTube and land. I want to apologize. Yes, we're live on video now. I wanted to apologize for the fact that I can't make this smaller now. What happened? What's the email about? What is it about? Yeah, no, I mean, I read the email. But it was a reference to another huge Facebook that has all the asterisks. What were the asterisks? Oh, there was an email on a previous show that you haven't had a chance to listen to because you have jelly. And in that email, he said, nobody uses Facebook. I don't use Facebook because of this, this, and this. And it turns out like, oh, but he has to do a lot of things to not use Facebook. And he also uses Facebook for work. But that's work, so it doesn't count. But nobody uses Facebook. Yeah, but nobody uses Facebook. And so this guy's like, well, wait a minute. I don't use Facebook at all. No copy odds, no workarounds. That's what that's about. Len, what are you drawing? Oh, don't you wish I knew? Oh, wish you knew. All right, announcement for the folks here at Nertacular. The shirts have arrived. And Dave wanted me to tell you that after DTNS, so don't all leave, because they also just got them and they're busy like certain things out. But after DTNS, they will be available out at the merch table. Woo! And those are all the details I have. Spread the word. I don't have time for that. He's already funded. He doesn't care about it. This is like any relationship. We're both just going to start putting even less effort into that. He's going to say it's mustache, like it's over. Oh, no, that's saying. If I could be right into my wife asking if you don't know her, she has green hair and she's probably smoking, streaming, just let her know that the mustache is green and it's not going to work. All right, are you guys ready? Let's do this. Let's. I'm going to do this. Hey, Tom, did you need me for the tech panel? That's about to start? No, he'll understand. Wait, who's that? Brush. He's a reader. I know we're good. Yeah. Thank you, man. And everybody text at Schwed and Twitter, no, we're good. He's at SHWOOD on Twitter. No comment, we're good. Cool. All right, here we go. Daily Tech News Show is powered by you to find out more at thedailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is The Daily Tech News for Friday, June 30th, 2017, live from Dirk Teculer, 2017. Yes! I'm Tom Merritt, streaming from the lovely Snowbird Resort in Salt Lake City. Well, actually, in Snowbird, Utah, we're outside of Salt Lake City. Yes, that's that. Big, big thanks to Richard Rompolino for hosting the show yesterday, filling in Bob's travel. Let's give Richard a big hand. He did a great job. Of course, we have a lot of folks here on the panel today to chat with us about the tech news. But Len Feralta, even though he couldn't make it down here, still on the hangout, if I say hey to Len. It's great to be here at Snowbird and Nurtacular on July 4th weekend. Yeah. You are here. You are literally here with us. Yeah, I am. I feel one with you. There's a little Len in all of us. What? No, we'll just stop that right now. Of course, also joining us right here and the panel from our far side, Mr. Steven Schleicher, host of Critical Hit, Major Spoilers. You were showing me some cool VR stuff you were messing around with earlier. Yeah, so you were talking last week earlier this week on Sir Parking and the Tech News Show. But you were talking about how VR might be better for the streaming if you only used half of that. And so I've got a Y360 camera that's supposed to be pointed upwards, but I decided to point it outwards, which would give you that 180 degree experience, 180 degree experience. I've been experimenting with some more game stuff. How would it work if you were sitting at the table with your fellow gamers and be able to look around and see what everyone else was doing and when it comes to data, you can have data pop up and help people's heads. And it was actually surprisingly easy to put together and do. And as great as your 360-step of discovery was, 180 might be even better. I think that people might be honest on that. Well, I think... Ladies and gentlemen, Justin Grover, young host of Thursdays. I think you're smooth as silk. Yeah, I actually kind of agree with you. I mean, as awesome as... Sorry, the best experience that you can have with the discovery video is that I did with Brian for discovery in Toyota. By the way, y'all knew Rap Porter. Fantastic. Not a sponsor of data tech partnership. Not a sponsor. I just have a personal preference for me. But the best experience was on a vibe when you downloaded the full files. And that's 4GIG. A lot of people, A, don't have a vibe and B, just don't want to randomly download 4GIGs for each for 12 ISOs. So I think that, yeah, reducing the footprint of VR is a huge part of making it mainstream. And Patrick Beja, joining us as well, from Frenchman.com. Woo! And from Finland via France. Yeah, if we're here in person. Yeah, interesting trip. You can touch me here. Thank you for that consent. Right, okay, let's move on. All right, yeah. It's so weird to be doing the show with actual being together. It's kind of, we don't really know how to be, I have to act. Yeah. I'm like, oh, Tom, you're here. I can actually do it. I can see that you don't hate me. Well, I always do. Jury's still out. No, he hates you. All right, let's get to some tech things you should know about. Mac OS Hi Sierra is available for the public to try out in beta. New version of the OS comes with a new file system. That's not scary at all. Support for a higher quality, more efficient 4K streaming and Metal 2 for better graphics performance and virtual reality. There are also upgrades to the photos app along with a bunch of other things, but I'm not going to try this out on any of my production machines. Are you guys gonna try it? No. Not being needed. I mean, it's really a minor. It's a behind the scenes update. Yeah. I think about what we're trying to do. Yeah. You don't want to skip search though. Maybe, maybe, maybe I'll keep it down. I'll keep it down. So yeah, Mac OS Hi Sierra, YOLO 420, please. The Washington Post reports that Twitter is considering a feature that would let users flag posts that contain mislead and false or harmful information. Twitter's Emily Horndold post that there are, quote, no current plans to launch any type of product along those lines. I like this. This is not just a no comment, but in my mind a very different no current plan is to launch any type of product along those lines. Well, you can just stop watching that post. Yeah. You can imagine how that would be exactly as the article says, you know, used for, I mean, misused. And that would be another nightmare for Twitter that they don't even need to have. Even though it's a real issue for them that the thing, whatever it used, the solution might be worse than the product. Yeah, I don't know. You know, one might say that it would kind of drag you into like a bad place, like maybe like a portal. Hashtag, portal to hell, hashtag help portal, like maybe one of us. Something like that. Yeah, one might say that if they were you. Thursday, Facebook announced on Thursday that back on May 22nd, so they're just releasing to the public, the Ocula Autonomous Aircraft completed its second successful test flight and this time landed without incident. The first test flight, if you remember, ended with a structural failure during landing. So flight time was one hour, 46 minutes. It rose above 3000 feet, doubled its ascension rate to 180 feet per minute, although it only cruises at 10 to 15 miles per hour. This thing is not meant to go fast. It's meant to be able to fly for a long time over a particular area. Facebook wants ocular drones to fly for up to 90 days at a time and offer internet access to a 60 mile wide area. So another step down the road to drones flying around delivering wireless internet right to our ground. I think this is fantastic. I mean, my parents live in an area that is still rural where they can't get either fiber or cable or any kind of internet access. But this is something that's a big, classic big step up and hopefully we can spread that range around even in a larger future. Well, and you gotta figure that there's gotta be a hardware technical solution that's better for those kind of areas that have been driven satellite. Obviously it has its problems when it comes to bandwidth. So this seems, you know, obviously people have always casted a side eye at Facebook whenever they profess to just bring the internet to everybody. But as long as this kind of research is going on, I think it is a net benefit. I think the big question is gonna be, is it gonna be more cost effective than the upcoming cell networks like 5G and 4G? Especially if you're gonna provide rural network or developing countries access, it's going to have to be affordable. And, you know, flying huge drones and balloons and things like that doesn't necessarily sound like the most cost effective way to deliver internet. Yeah, it would seem like it would be useful in some really remote areas, but hopefully any country that has, you know, can build up an infrastructure with mobile would be able to. And the idea with Google and Facebook is they want to sell ads to you. So if they can deliver the internet even at that amount of cost and you start using Facebook or Google, you'll give them money somehow. That is the goal to use. Yeah. Is this better than the wooden idea that's built up a bunch of ways into the same area? I don't know that it's better or worse. At this point, I think that the jury is like, You're trying a bunch. Well, I'm sorry. Yeah. We haven't decided yet. I'm right here. I know. No, I think I would like to see them in operation. I mean, it's one thing to do a science project, another thing to actually operate a business. I'd just like you to bring up a good point. There will be a battle of oculodrones shooting down balloons, squirrels toting laters on the balloons, fighting back. The other question I think is, do you want your internet delivered by Facebook? Or them to me. Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. Do you want to be locked in it? That's a very good point. I mean, yeah. Look at who we buy it from now. I feel like they're like cuddly teddy bears. It's all relative. You're right. Sony will begin manufacturing vinyl record albums for the first time since 1989 at a factory in southwest Tokyo starting in March. In the K-reports, Sony will make Japanese songs out the past as well as popular contemporary albums. Sony is recruiting retired engineers to advise them in the process. I want to do a quick insta poll. First of all, are there any retired engineers who know how to run a vinyl plant? Sony's looking for you. Yeah, update your LinkedIn. Second of all, how many of you have bought a vinyl album in the last month? Look at that. That is 10 to 15 percent of this audience. Yeah. I have not bought one myself, but I received one from our birthday. I mean, it's all about with the digitization of everything. People want a physical item to represent their attachment to whatever they're buying. And if Sony is thinking, all right, we need to get it on this, it means that it's an actual market. We all kind of suspected it for the past few years, but now it's definitely confirmed. Yeah, they outgrossed streaming in the UK. And then they were the only thing other than digital that was growing as far as music safety. And the interesting thing is that they're going to be making old songs as well as new ones. Yeah. So they wouldn't... Well, that's so much of that market. I mean, what I think we are seeing emerging here is just the idea that retro tech is cool. And it's something that we haven't really thought of because there's been such a steep curve in terms of technology that we realized that there are things that were like analog or we had collections for that now just don't exist. And as the soldier is always a pole on the heartstrings, why not these other elements as well as the fact that vinyl obviously has its own rich sound. I know everybody who buys it said, I hate you, but I don't want to... Well, I mean, if you're going to buy an object to go with your digital recordings, because the album that I got had a download with it. You took a sheet of paper out of the sleeve and downloaded the digital recordings. So, yeah, it's the object that represents that. You're going to want a nice big vinyl art. I mean, no one's going to buy cassette tapes. Yeah, right. I mean, we say that now. We say that now. The origins of the galaxy, if it works for you, it will. Well, sure, yeah. I mean, look, Baby Driver is out this week and it features its protagonist using an iPad or an old click wheel like iPod. So retro tech, man, it's in. Now, some of us are old enough to actually remember using violin. Okay, all of us are old. But, you know, there's another... There's a new demographic that for this... To them, this is brand new and I know a lot of those people that fit into that age group that they only want to buy vinyl. So this seems like a big weekend for some people to jump on board with this. Yeah. A lot of people my age... Dude? I remember. I know our huge vinyl slides now. So that is absolutely true. Facebook has rolled out its mind. It has a Wi-Fi feature to its mobile apps. Tap on the More tab in Facebook and choose Find Wi-Fi and that will show you nearby locations of public Wi-Fi and a little about the business that offer them. I wonder if that's an advertising opportunity. Businesses have to choose to share their information with Facebook so it won't be a comprehensive list. Yeah, you're not gonna get every single public Wi-Fi available because Facebook has to go collect them. But Facebook is not charging them to join, as I understand it. Although Facebook probably gives them an opportunity to spend some money in other ways. I mean, you know... What if everybody, of course, had the same icon but whoever pays was yellow instead of blue? Yeah. Do you want to share the hours that you're open to be correct? Well, I'm trying to figure out whether we're a gender list. No, no, no. You're right, you're right. I was thinking they were... They're probably just doing this as like, hey, we'd like to get you on this map so people know how to discover you. You can boost that post, essentially, by doing X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Facebook and Google. They're advertising companies. Anything they do, and I don't think that this is a cynical way to look at it, it's just how they make their money, will relate to advertising. Will relate to a way to... No, of course, buy advertising. You get it in front of the people that they feel are targeting the most. So I'm from a town of about 30,000 people and there's two cable companies that offer both internet and cable service. And they are kind of like what's going on here that they are trying to get their free Wi-Fi into as many businesses as possible so that when you go in, when you access the free Wi-Fi, it's this is brought to you by company A or this is brought to you by company B. And then the hope is that people are like, wow, I really like the Wi-Fi brought to us by company A. Maybe we should consider switching from company B over. So this is maybe not a new idea, but it's just growing into a larger, more national brand. All right. Dubai Police showed up autonomous miniature police cars set to go into operation. Tom Merritt is on the sale. I know, try to get that out there. Operation by the end of the year, thank you. The cars are the size of a toy car and will use biometrics to identify wanted criminals. I'll give you a minute to factor that in. Any small quadcopter equipped with a camera can be launched from the small car as well. This is kind of transformers a little bit. Meaning transformers? Singapore-based OTSAW. What's happening? They're showing the video behind it. Oh, right. Singapore-based OTSAW digital will deploy the cars as part of the Smart Dubai initiative. Really smart Dubai. I mean, from the city that's going to do flying autonomous drones to deliver you from place to place with a single occupant comes small cars that will be scanning you to see if they're a criminal. Dubai has got a lot of money, folks. They're swimming in it. And you know what? Maybe they're investing in these technologies and some of them are not going to work out and they're just going to be as dumb as we think they're going to be. Maybe they're not. I can't imagine that a bunch of other cities, countries, whatever could find a use for those technologies and they might be meeting the charge there. I mean, it's funny. It's a funny story because it's small little cars, right? It's a not funny story because it's scanning your face constantly in a surveillance state. And then it's also just like, well, but if you could find a balance between how funny it is and the scary surveillance, there's something really interesting. It's the most adorable version of Robocop. I mean, maybe that's what you need. It's like, if we're going to create a surveillance state, let's be the key. Oh, look at you. Look at you taking all my bikes. Look at you. We already have lots of CCTV cameras in many cities. Let's just make it a mobile. Yeah, it's just making it mobile. But I can absolutely imagine if some person from, you know, Dubai representatives goes to, I don't know, London that just had a terrorist attack and tells them, hey, we can have this thing that runs around and can identify people that are known criminals in the crowds. Only known criminals. That's it. Only. Well, undesirable. I mean, undesirable. The point is some political appointees might think, well, this might be a good time to push. And these are going to look ridiculous, in my opinion, in 10, 20 years when everything is just a small flying camera. Well, that's what I like about this corner is that it might think, oh, what happens if someone decides to go down the street, or down the dark alley, off that little helicopter often. Yeah, yeah. Germany's Bundestag passed the Network Enforcement Act Friday requiring social media companies to remove, quote, obviously illegal content from their services, including things like hate speech, defamation, incitements to violence, and the like. Within 24 hours of notification, if they fail to comply, they could face fines starting at 5 million euros. And if they repeatedly fail to comply, those fines could go up to 50 million euros. Less obvious criminal content still must be taken down, but you get seven days to do that. Law goes into effect in October. And some organizations are saying they might challenge it with the European Union saying this is not consistent with the EU law. Wow. Okay. So enormous kind of words. And obviously, you have to remember that Germany is not, has different laws when it comes to free speech and hate speech, as does a lot of Europe. There's so much to discuss here. Michael, just specifically to clarify that point, it just means that hate speech is not something that, you know, you can maybe face some sort of, like, this is an illegal act. Exactly. They're very strict laws. And it is actually criminal to engage in hate speech in most of the European countries. Just to take the sort of, a different view, I think, that most of us are going to have on the panel. I'm the first person who used to say, we shouldn't deliver the keys of regulation of these things, of the speech to those companies. We don't want Facebook and Twitter and Google or whatever to be deciding what is legal or not, or to be enforcing it even. I sort of changed my tune a little bit in the past few months or a couple of years, because we're as fantastic as that idea is on an idealistic level. We're realizing, I think, that a lot of this doesn't really work. So I'm wondering if this might not be, and there's a lot to discuss here, but this might not be an okay-ish compromise. Basically, we need to define who says this is illegal content, because here they're not really specifying it. But if we have a greed upon way of deciding which one is illegal, and I don't think it's too far out to say, well, now you have to take it out. Let's not have a debate about whether these should be the laws. Different countries have different laws. Let's just say, okay, there's a criminal thing that's happening on Facebook. Is Facebook responsible for it? Now, when I first saw this, some of the stories did not include the thing about notification. And I said, well, wait a minute. From the minute something's posted, you have 24 hours to go find it, that's going to be very bad, because it's going to cause networks to either remove themselves from Germany or to remove lots of posts and put in filters and shut down conversation. Just in case maybe it's illegal. Yeah, making this so that you don't have to go find it, but as soon as you know it's there, you have 24 hours, changes the conversation. Now, there's still plenty of organizations saying that still has the effect of making these networks lean to the side of eliminating speech just to be safe in case somebody decides it was obviously criminal and they didn't, and that has a chilling effect on speech. So I guess my question here is that in terms you hit on it, what is the limit for a company like Facebook or Twitter before they say, well, Facebook, Germany, so long friends, what are you saying, is that it? I'll be the same. I'll be the same. And now all of a sudden that just redirects to Facebook and France, where you have all the same accounts. Why don't they just block German IP addresses? Why don't they do something else? To be clear, Facebook's not taking that tone. Right now Facebook's saying we're working with the German government to figure out how to make sure that we keep criminal content off of our networks. And already it seems like some of these are getting, some of these laws is already sort of getting watered down in response to some of Facebook's work back. But I do wonder, like, what is that line for them? How many times they've got, they have to get popped for 50 million euros before they're like, you want to know what, you've made the cost of doing business here too much. Well, as long as they're, I think they're making more than, you know, a few times 50 million euros in Germany. But I mean, that's, we don't really know. But I, what concerns me, which might lead them to go, all right, you know, goodbye, this is too dumb, is some of the things like, you have 24 hours to remove the thing that is obviously criminal. Okay, I think most of us could understand how that would work. But then you have seven days to remove things that are less obviously criminal. Oh my God. That kind of sort of may be criminal. Well, basically what the, go ahead. I was going to say, so we're going to have to question this. When does, when do you change the hate speech into something that's not as obvious? And how much harder does that make it for Facebook to go and search this stuff out? And do they, I think, turbines because the way that they're delivering these messages, it's chance change. Well, and that's a good point because that could keep the message up for longer. Because Facebook has seven days in those cases. But what, what the theory behind this law is, is when you Facebook, see criminal content, you'll remove it. Now, you guys are taking too long to do it. So we're putting a law that says, look, when everybody agrees, oh yeah, there's no debate, that's criminal. You only should take 24 hours. You shouldn't take longer than 25 hours. You should have enough staff to be able to remove this stuff. When it's something that's criminal content, but it obviously took a while to determine it. You maybe had to run it by a couple of lawyers and stuff, then we'll give you seven days. All of that obviously are not obvious, is determined after the fact, though, in court, if they are found in violation. So they have to guess like, okay, is the court gonna say this is obvious? I guess, I guess we just yank it down. And they're gonna be yanking down more things than they would if they were given a little more time. And that's the argument Facebook's making is, look, this is just, we want to follow the spirit of this law. We don't want criminal content, but you're not giving us enough time to be accurate. So some of the things they've been doing in the past few months is working with third parties to try and determine what is, on a wider scale, objectionable content. And maybe if we're looking at this with slightly rose-colored glasses, maybe this will encourage them to perfect those processes and come to kind of a consensus where, of course there are always gonna be content, there's always gonna be content where you're not sure, but if you work with, say, three, four different outside organizations and you're like, we're gonna run it by them in a really streamlined process and they will say, yes, this video of a, I don't know, beheading or something is obviously criminal. And when they have vetted that criminal aspect, we will remove it within 24 hours, maybe for those extreme cases, because I think that's the way normal people, normal people are looking at this. They're like, well, look at that example, this one is obviously criminal. It should be easy to determine somehow. And yes, it's fuzzy, you're not quite sure how that somehow works, but common sense dictates that, yes, you look at this, anyone reasonable would agree that this, in Germany, would agree that this is criminal. So if it encourages them to perfect this process, throw those extreme cases, I think it might be positive in the end. I'm not 100% certain. It all depends on how it plays out. I still think 24 hours, I get why they want to put the pressure on it. I still think it's a lot to put on someone, any network, and it does, it doesn't directly threaten safe harbor. Safe harbor is the principle that, I'm not responsible for the content my users put on. It doesn't do that because it requires a notice, and it might have the same effect as doing that, because content will get removed because of the speed at which it goes that might not be removed or need to be. And then ultimately the problem with Facebook is, okay, that seems good, but how fast do these notices come? How often do they come? How do you even get them? Is it like center-raven? Yeah, exactly. Is there some authority that tells you this is illegal? It's like some government organization is telling you this. Well, I think user reporting plays into how that can be gamed, and then you have to look at it. What do you dial like 511? That right there is why Facebook is saying you're not giving us enough time, because we get so many reports, many of which are not criminal at all, plenty of which are not obviously criminal. It's hard to sort through all this. So that's why this less obviously criminal content must be taken down within seven days really bothers me. Because if you limit the law to obviously criminal content needs to be removed, you can sort of get a process to determine, you know, again. You still have to review everything. Yeah, sure. That takes time. I agree. But it's less of a kind of worms, hashtag help portal, than being, well, we might think it might be maybe criminal, and you have seven days, and like that's too, I don't know, it's not clear-cut enough. And I think, and often, I'm sure you have a really interesting perspective on this, speaking of the languages, but like a lot of times these stories, you wind up finding out that the stories on day three, four, and five are a lot more illuminating than the one on day one, where somebody is rewriting a story that was printed in a foreign language that doesn't exactly capture the nuances of everything. So I'm with you. I feel like there has to be, if you're going to make it a law, and you're going to like levy these kinds of fines that you have to appeal through a court or something like that, you need to be as specific as possible. Like that is just, that's only fair. It seems like now is a good time for people who want to become lawyers, to become criminal policy lawyers. Yeah. Hit up Berlin, baby! Looking at this stuff at two in the morning, trying to decide whether this has to be taken down. And just to wrap this up, don't forget in Germany, the criminal content involves things like hate speech. You could easily see this law in the United States where the criminal content is just child pornography or incitement to violence, terrorism, et cetera. And so try to think about it, not just around like, well, that's a law that we would never have in my country. Think about it like, okay, what are the things that are actually criminal to post where I'm from, and how fast and how much do I hold responsible? Facebook, YouTube, et cetera for removing that. And I think the other thing is, when you look at like posting an article or video, you can't imagine how they would review it. But does this include comments? Because a lot of the issues that we have in Europe, like post a hate speech in a comment on something because people, you know, pylon with anti-semitic content, you know, it absolutely does include comments. Exactly. And then do you have to actually go in and review all of those as well? Yeah. All right. Well, that is a look at our tech stories. Real quickly before we wrap up today, message of the day comes to us in regards to your statement on Tuesday that nobody uses Facebook, which by the way, I mean, we all know that Patrick wasn't literally saying that no one can't use Facebook. Show me one. Show me one. So we have one guy yesterday who wrote, or two days ago wrote in and was like, well, I don't use Facebook. But he also had a lot of caveats and ended up that he actually had to use Facebook for work. We got another email that says, look, I had to write in after listening to you read the email with the guy who doesn't use Facebook but had all the asterisks. I am probably a better example. I use no Facebook product at all that I am aware of. So he's no WhatsApp, no Instagram, et cetera. That said, I'm not a technophobe. I'm actually an IT infrastructure architect an active geek in my personal life with a home AD domain, a 20 terabyte Plex server, PF sense router, et cetera. I just do not like Facebook and social media in general. I use LinkedIn strictly for work networking and as a kind of living resume. I do Reddit for entertainment, Hangouts and SMS occasionally Skype to talk to friends and family. No Facebook Messenger, Instagram, et cetera. My main point is not the struggle some may think it is and as that guy's email really just seemed to prove I know I am in the Midori and have no problem with that. I just think it's important. People know it's not essential but thanks to the great show it's been a proud patron since about then. Have fun at your event. So yeah, obviously I don't think anyone says that everyone in the world uses Facebook. I think there are some people who don't. I might be slid in there's a little bit here but doesn't Facebook build profiles of people who aren't logged in via the, you know, light button? Oh, you're adding Dakota to your earlier statement there. Yeah, yeah. That's true. I mean, in a sense, well, he doesn't use Facebook. Okay, yeah. Some people don't but two billion. Yeah, that's a lot of people. And maybe a better way to phrase it to address him is some people, many people find it hard not to use Facebook, not that they couldn't. They just find that there's social pressures. And I think also at this point it was a different conversation even five years ago but at this point, of course you can not use Facebook but there's also outside pressure as he sort of alluded to to use it if you want to stay informed about I don't use Facebook all that much but many people want to stay in touch with their friends and families and the point is today the social network for that is Facebook. There's no more, you know, Orca or Google Plus or whatever. There is a Google Plus. Yes. And the folks who respond to me on it will be very angry with you. Both of them. My point is, my point is I suspect they don't use Google Plus for that purpose, right? Facebook is to stay in touch with their friends and family see the pictures of their cute children, babies and cats and dogs. Probably wants to. Obviously will. Yeah, we don't discriminate. But yeah. All right, well that is it for this episode of Daily Tech News Show. Stephen Schleicher, thank you for joining us. Where do we find more of you? Major Swirlers.com. Excellent. Go check it out. Our young congratulations on the first round funding of the Kickstarter Action News. Well, it's not great. Keep scrolling. So if you have not checked it out, go ahead and do it right now. ActionNewsGame.com. We are now funded. So it's definitely going to happen. Don't worry about that. But we got more cards that we can put in the game and a few surprises along the road for stretch goals. So go ahead and check it out. ActionNewsGame.com. And you can find more of Patrick Beja at FrenchSpin.com. And follow me on Twitter, not Patrick. And not Patrick on Facebook, which, you know, is a fine platform. Unless you're that guy who did that one. Yeah, right. I mean, LinkedIn. He doesn't like social networks anyway. Just listen to the podcast. Kind of makes sense. All right, let's check in with Len Peralta. What have you been drawing, Len? Well, you know, you guys had a great discussion but since this is a live at NerdTacular event, I wanted to do something for the NerdTacular people. And this is a first. Someone actually ordered this before the show ended. Wow. Somebody was keeping track. Someone is keeping track of me, which is a little bit scary. I think it's through Facebook. But yes, you can actually purchase this non-official NerdTacular print for NerdTacular. 2017 right now at LenPeraltaStore.com. Of course, you've got two people dancing. One wearing the Obey Henry shirt. The big word that is famous for Scott Johnson fans. If you don't know Scott Johnson, don't worry. It's Fert, F-E-R-T. And there's a little snowboard at the bottom. Kids ask, or parents ask your friends. Yeah, and a snowboard. That looks great. So, LenPeraltaStore.com. Folks, go check it out. Thanks again to everybody who came out to NerdTacular 2017 and joined us here. Amazing crowd. Stick around if you are in the building or if you are on the live stream or if you're listening to the patron version. We are going to do our Quarterly Analyst Hangout, which means I update you on how DTNS is going. We take questions from our analysts in our Slack. And you folks here in the room will get a chance to ask questions as well. Don't forget to support us on Patreon, patreon.com, slash DTNS. Big thanks to all the patrons who are here in the audience. Take yourself around to the floor as well. Thank you for making this show possible. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern, 20, 30 UTC at alphakigradio.com and diamondclub.t. We're at facebook.com slash dailytechnewshow. And our website is dailytechnewshow.com. Back on Monday with producer Roger Chang, as our guest. Talk to you then. This show is part of the FrogFans Network. Get more at frogfans.gov. We hope you have enjoyed this program. Thanks everybody, that was great. And Len, as usual, the art is amazing. Oh, thank you so much. I wanted to do something special. This is a very special event. So, of course, why don't I do something for you? Well, speaking of something special. Yeah. Len, you recently did a commission for some folks here in the audience, right? I did. I was approached by someone named Anthony, who said he was going to be at Nurtacular. And he asked me to do something special for his friend Kent for his 40th birthday. And I think we have what I did for him there. That's right. Kent, you want to introduce him? Yeah, go ahead and talk it out. So, for my 40th birthday, Kent went out and reached out to bunch of diamond clubbers and bunch of frogfans. People have got some videos made for me for our podcast on my birthday. So I had to show them all to him. And we've got an original Len proleto artwork done. Got assigned by a bunch of people here. And Kent, come on up. This is you for your birthday. By the way, if you are not aware of the ideas to be done on the digital page after the podcast on ritual misery, it is a great, great, great blessing. You guys should sing happy birthday. We've got three, two, one. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Kent. Happy birthday to you. Thank you. We can show the audience here. Awesome. Thank you, Lynn. This is awesome. Thank you. Looks great. Happy birthday to you, Kent. That's fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen, big old happy birthday. Oh, my God. All right. And then big Jim, Jim Thatcher, does the tech and trade podcast. And from time to time, you'll hear his voice on the show doing a promo for tech and trade. But since he's here, and we've had some pretty big trade-related tech fallout from that ransomware that happened earlier this week. Yeah. Actually, that was a little bit complicated. Okay. But we've got other stuff to talk about. So real quick, before we get into the Q&A, we're going to hear from Jim. Meanwhile, Hammond right here has got the mic. So if you've got questions, he's got the mic. Make sure to raise your hand and call him over and get your questions ready. Go ahead, Jim. And now it's time for taking a journey with your host, Jim Thatcher. It's Friday, June 30th, 2017. And I'm Jim Thatcher, live from Nurtacular. And today I want to discuss something you came up on yesterday's DTNS when we talked about Elon Musk turning around and having the hyperbole tunnel, the barrier from LAX to Sherman Oaks. And one thing I would inform Mr. Musk to look at is to consider not only LAX to Sherman Oaks, but if we're in LA anyway, why don't we go ahead and look at going from Long Beach Harbor in LA Harbor and making the hyperbole out to the Inland Empire? There could be a lot of cost savings with this. There's a lot of environmental concerns that are going on with trucks. And if you consider Long Beach and LA together are the largest West Coast trans-Pacific airport in the world or in the U.S. this, you are going to find that it would be a lot of sense to take at least the 40% of the traffic that stays there and goes to the Inland Empire anyway to get it out there as fast as you can without having trucks. But that's just my sense. We're taking trade. I'm James Thatcher. Yeah! That was perfect. That was perfect. Good job, man. All right, so we've got questions coming in from our analysts in the analysts slack. And so if you're on the stream or you're an analyst in the audience, you could go into slack. I guess you could also ask in person. And go into that hashtag questions section if you'd like to ask us some questions. We'll get those going here. I'm also going to be levelating the show while we do this. So you'll be in the audience. We haven't watched that happen as well. I published the show. We don't have any questions yet lined up in there. We have one here. Let's go ahead and start with that one, man. Hi, my name is that one. Colon fields are southern Illinois. And the utmost in my life used to be the difference in the town between the cities and the rural areas and the rural areas. I live in a rural area. A lot of people don't have internet. Friends don't have cell phones. They still don't have cell phones. And it just seems to get worse every year. Steven, you mentioned that about your friend. What do you guys see happening with that? I mean, we saw the journaling thing, but that's not the only thing that's going on. Yeah, my first reaction to that because my sister lives out. By the way, which corn fields of southern Illinois are you near? Robinson, okay. Yeah, yeah, not far at all. My sister's outside Greenville. And she deals with this. Things slowly come out to her. So she's got the internet that I had five years ago, right? And they'll eventually come. But I do, this is one of those cases where I think there needs to be some kind of equivalent to the rural electrification project. Because it's not that you don't keep, I mean, people out in rural areas can go get a phone. They get Amazon can deliver to them. That's not the problem. It's the connectivity that's the big problem that underlies everything else. Well, and I think you have a great point of view on this. But I think the fact that these companies that ran it, we can understand whether they're there to sell you ads, and that's why they're getting you into their ecosystem at the internet, is encouraging in that there is hardware, there is money being spent on other deniers that have made obviously this quantitative decision that it's not worth it to extend their service this far into those areas. So the more people that are looking to get internet in the hands of everybody, and that includes everybody from Google Facebook, the current ISPs, all of the telcos, and, you know, Elon Musk with SpaceX, I think we are probably going to see more connectivity over the next 10 years in those areas specifically based on new hardware. And I wouldn't look at just a big company to take care of this. The way that Fiber came to Western Kansas was that there were a bunch of local telephone exchanges that basically said, this sounds crazy, go back in the early 90s. They're like, we're going to just form our own, literally called Google Telephone Company. And they decided to invest in infrastructure. And over the course of the 90s, by the time you hit 2001, there were people in farming communities that had Fiber to their core before the bigger cities had Fiber to their core. So that's something to look forward to. Before Lawrence. Before Lawrence. I know. Yeah. And so it's really amazing when you look and see what they've done and how they've come together and say, we're investing in infrastructure because we know that that is the future of what Western Kansas needs. It was a huge step. And when you look at it, farmers and kids would come into town from go to college and they would talk about how slow the internet was in town. And they're like, we've got Fiber. We've got everything coming to us in Fiber. So it's really amazing. So look to the small rural telephone companies to hopefully come together to bring that Fiber and the connectivity that the rural communities are going to need. If only they were allowed to. Yeah, that is a specific problem. I mean, looking at this from a filthy European point of view, there are a lot of things that are problematic in this current situation that the U.S. is in. I think one is the lack of competition. We often talk about it on the show. I think it's ridiculous that the U.S., the champion of the free market and the competition, is not having a healthy competitive market for internet infrastructure, which is essential to the economic growth, especially in those rural areas. And I mean, you have that example. In Europe, we have the same issue in Finland. And I sometimes go to my wife's family country house, which is very remote, not as remote maybe as some of those places in the U.S., very remote. And the way they got Fiber, because they did, was community initiative. And those are being stopped by the big end. It's one of those, not to get political, that's not the goal here, but it's one of those issues where it shouldn't really be a political issue. It should be, yeah, we need it, and it's not happening. How do we make it happen? And it seems like common sense that people should kind of agree on at least one of those options. But yeah, I think the irony is that it's happening everywhere else. And for some reason, it's not happening here. So it's worth looking at why it's not happening here specifically, and not just wait for the Facebook lane or the Google elevator. Well, on the flip side of that, with my parents, which are on the other end of the state, they're still on a party, for anybody that knows what the party is. That's what I'm talking about. Over the years, there would be only people on that party. But the company that's supposed to be rolling out the internet in the area is only starting with roads in the north-south, and they're on an east-west route. And so every time they're asking about when are you going to start the east-west route, they're like, it's a good year to do that. So it's just crazy to see some of this stuff. So I do feel that we're even more... And just to bring everything to the point, I think that we obviously have such a hard time trying to figure out what is the best and the worst part of the way that we run things in America, which is decentralized decision-making. And so when you have chronic bad decision-making, like many local cities and counties do, when it comes to laying new lines or making companies share those lines, then to me, if I'm betting on a horse, I'm betting that you on Musk is able to crack satellite internet on a level that we were able to see. Then everybody realizes, oh, well, no, we should actually be forcing these companies to be checking. All right, we have a Slack message from Dr., one of our folks who supports us. Hi, Dr. How do you think the internet should be legally monitored and controlled? Do you think government should be able to control what their citizens can access, or should they not be in control at all? I mean, I think he knows that the answer to that. You both of us know, but where on the scale do you think that should be? We're figuring it out. For me personally, I think the big, important thing to keep in mind in that difficult process that we're all going through is idealistic views are great, but at some point you need to be a little bit pragmatic about things, and that's true for basically everything, but yeah. It's a really hard question to ask, and it's not like we don't have regulations here in America, especially when it comes to, you know, murder somebody. Not anymore. I mean, I'm always going to wind up airing more on the side of, you know, less control. Less control, just because I do believe that there's a lot to be gained from the freedom of nature of the internet and we've seen the fruits of that so far, and I would like to continue. But you're right, I mean, as we move more and more of our lives on the internet, then we have to understand that this is not just this place, and of course we're all Western merits, this was our home, and now all of a sudden all the sips are moving in and really coming up the words, but it just means that there will be more regulations, the more people are there, the more regulations there are. I think one of the issues we're facing is that most of us come from this idealistic view which is fantastic, which I share, that the internet is free from regulation and open to everyone and that creates things that we could never have seen in any other way. And we have that heritage and it allows for everything that we have today on the internet. And it's really hard for us to, and the fear has always been, well, it's already now, but at some point the government is going to get in and regulate everything and that's what we don't want. I think no one wants this. On the other hand, some things are kind of screwed up and yeah, yeah, that's my comment. Gadget Virtuoso has a follow-up on that idea, how long before there's a UN body to oversee issues like this and what came out of Canada this week as far as, well, the Canada issue particularly where they said, well, you have to take this page down from all of your sites. We don't care if it's outside Canada. When do we need an international body? Forget whether it's the UN or not. When do we need the governments of the world to get together and go, hey, there need to be some rules because this is a global internet and you can't stop it from being a global internet? When, when, Justin, can you give us a date? We're going to, where's the overrunner? I'll put the overrunner at five and a half years. I, I, I, the fact that you said UN and I know let's take it outside of it but you're always going to have the same problems when you are working with an international organization because if it's not a, you know, as close to possible negotiation between powerful countries, countries will always use something like that a seat at the table to decide the rules of the internet as a bargaining chip or other stuff. And it's you know, it's not worth it to try to establish guidelines and frameworks to do it but I think that is smart. But ultimately, what I think we're going to face is the rest of the world does not necessarily share our beliefs that things should be kept up on the internet. There, there is some restrictions in other parts of the world that for their country they can make that decision but if they're at, at the table and we are all moderating our views it is going to be more restrictive than some of the other countries. Right, you don't want China and North Korea to be to have veto power at these things but I mean, whether it's the UN or of course something else it's not certain that their decision as you were mentioning Tom was, well, you can't take something away from the internet because one country says so, maybe they're going to say yes, you can and that's a problem. Yeah. That was the debate around internet and the domain name system, right? Just the administration of domain names cause people to freak out and say, no, we don't want governments involved. Which I was very much in that camp but it's also, there's another way of looking at it which is if you have different layers of government or of decision making in order it creates sort of a balance as well so if Canada that has local quote unquote interests says yes, you should be able to do this then you get a second chance of someone saying no you shouldn't like, you know, judgment appeals court, supreme court, whatever and in order for something like this to go through it has to go through all of those layers and be agreed upon at all of those layers and one of those layers if it's large enough might have a different interest so you have different kind of, you know, quote unquote points of failure and if one of that says no you can't do that then it doesn't happen which often is the case in the EU has a much clearer view on those complicated issues and they're not as much bound by the local politics of these issues and so often the EU is going to say no, you can't, you know, that's not right and so the local countries that are admired in you know, terrorism issues and all of those might take decisions that are a little bit rash and are shut down by I mean what's the worst that could happen? Right, exactly What's the worst with the EU and our member countries? Yeah, I think the only other thing that I would say about that is you know, maybe not a UN but maybe a NATO maybe something where there are countries that chair a similar mindset and set a framework that they can then invite other countries into that might be something Alright, is this my corner going away? You could be threatened in a conceivable scenario I don't have anything to say We got another question from the audience, go ahead Hi, this is Dave from Alberta When it comes to hate speech when I hear both passing laws against hate speech it kind of scares me we'll try not to get too political but if you've got a ruling left in the EU you're going to label things hate speech they're just criticisms and disagreements like a few disagreeing with social justice warriors and you know, they can term that as hate speech so, you know, it's just kind of a kind of a slope when I hear what about laws like that? Yeah, and that's why we very clearly didn't want to discuss them in the show because that is an entirely political topic there's nothing technology about it and that, to bring your question into what we do talk about on the show that is why it's so concerning putting that kind of responsibility on the social networks because yeah, the same argument about, well, if you make this kind of speech against the law and one political party interprets it this way and then a different political party gets in office and starts interpreting it another way it could affect your ability to protest, it could affect your ability to express your opinion no matter what it is do you want the social networks to be in that position because essentially what this German law could do is outsource that and say, hey you know what, it's up to you to make sure nothing criminal goes up and so what we were debating was that space of like, okay do they have enough time to accurately assess it whatever kind of criminal it is in whatever country and will they err on the side of getting rid of things that they shouldn't and therefore cause that effect that you're talking about where the kinds of speech that you think are all right get removed because, well, we'd rather be safe than sorry. And I just want to add the kind of things that we consider hate speech in Europe is kind of clearly defined and there's not a lot of slippage in that definition it's kind of like if you say you know, Jews should die that's a piece of hate speech if you say social justice warriors should die that's not cool if you say, well I disagree with what they're saying that's okay and I don't think that reasonably anyone would label criticism as hate speech or at least it has to be begin now we're getting into a policy discussion after the technology once you have the acts it is up to who is wielding it to decide exactly what to hit and what you're saying is the act seems to be wielded fairly responsibly and what other people say is yes but for how long that's where that goes and this is classic I salute you sir for something that I share which is classic good old fashioned American paranoia which I'm with you because I always have that same tingle down in the back of my spine whenever we talk about this stuff Big Jim, do you want to ask your question or do you want me to read it out of the slack okay we'll do Hammond's next person then we'll do Big Jim so I'm going to return back to a little bit for the show are you looking to branch out and have more shows or are there major format changes coming up soon with these 3DS? no on the more shows thing Justin always laughs at me because I've got an idea for a show he's like I bet you do I can't promise that I won't be able to stop myself but I probably should I am at capacity beyond the capacity of shows right now but I've always got ideas what I've been doing now is Scott Johnson and I have been cooking up an idea what would have been a new show in the past but we're going to try to fold it into current and create a show out of that so with Daily Tech news show to answer the second part of your question I definitely have ideas for not changing the format we had a great conversation in Slack about what's important to people about the show and why they like it but sort of molding the format and even expanding it a little so one thing I can clearly say I want to do more of is a standalone interview episode I've had a couple of those in the feed in the last couple of months and Roger and I have talked a lot about identifying people that we wouldn't normally have on the show necessarily because they can't hang with like here's 6 stories that just happened I mean these guys didn't spend all morning preparing for our topics but they're so good that I can throw like that Germany story already complex Patrick can look at it Steven can look at it and just be like okay we got smart things to say about this that's not a skill everybody has but those people who don't have that skill have an expertise that we'd like to take advantage of so I'd like to do more of those kinds of episodes and I've got other ideas for things to experiment and try what's that? oh the strike it's a real shame you know they weren't able to come to a deal and collective bargaining we hope they get back on the field soon it would be a shame to lose a championship because of collective bargaining it would be, it would be a real shame Big Jim you've got the mic, good alright okay so here's my question on the slide what would you say is the basic how how does Microsoft and other OS providers force the push to be security gadgets, corporations that are very resistant to upgrades the impact on this is no important than just the one company but it will help everybody and might speak specifically about those things you got any go? so we have smart things to say about stuff okay I've got an answer for you there was an article today that I almost put it in the line out you can find it at daddytechnewshow.reddit.com one of the top voted ones that Microsoft is in the preview putting in place some file access some permissions by folder so that you can say nobody but these three programs get to do anything to this folder and if some other rogue program comes in we're going to stop it so that's something Microsoft is developing that would give extra protection but the other thing is patch your stuff that begs the question or brings up the question how do you get companies to prioritize that and maybe the answer is you have want to cry and not touch it I think something that changed over the past few weeks and longer than the past few weeks but definitely would want to cry is that idea that you don't want Microsoft to be doing stuff to your OS because it might break what you're using it for and certainly that's obviously still true and still the case but I think more people understand that as we push more of our business life and actual life in those systems then maybe it's really important to make sure they're kept safe and that also implies automatic patching in many cases and I think there's been an awakening in this country and around the world in terms of understanding what personal and business security means things have been affected on a scale that we haven't seen and a lot of it is ultimately stuff that probably is not intensely hard to fix and I think that on a personal level the fact that a residential election for however you define it being affected was indeed affected by a spear phishing attack that's something where it's a technical hygiene now blown up large for the entire country in the world to see as an example and business wise I think for a new generation of IT professionals this is the kind of stuff that they are going to market themselves on and they're going to make themselves strong candidates in the workplace certainly comes down to the right issue of something that auto-passionate Dr. has another question sorry are you going to do a cooking show Tom? That's exactly the kind of trouble I get myself into as I do it's cooking and I'm like I can do a show out of this I know, I know that would be perfect how could I turn the one time that I have to listen to podcasts and do another show that keeps you from listening to other podcasts it's a disease Hi I feel like I'm just living life waiting for self-driving cars to really be a thing I'm just enjoying all the cars so I've kind of digested the idea of everybody having to get vehicles but the self-driving thing is just like no, no, no I don't see how it can be like just widespread and I think about how weird the internet is so I'm kind of curious how long do you think it could take for self-driving cars to be really normal and why that's a great way to phrase the question how long before they're normal because we have them technically there are self-driving cars on the street being tested right but not even just how long before the driver doesn't have to be in there but how long before they're normal that's a good question electric cars have been around for forever they've only really become more used in the last 15 years so and ultimately that was the tech problem 40 years I'm gonna say 40 40 for normal I'll go more aggressive I'll say closer to 15 and I think part of it is that we all are already kind of seeing and it's gonna come to big cities or I think trucking trucking is gonna you know there's normal for transportation when I'm in a downtown of a major event and then there's normal for most places those are different timelines I guess I would turn the question back to you and ask would you be comfortable what do they have to do to please you I think these sweet sweet driverless darlings I mean I'd like to take one now but I think I think see one thing I'm worried about is like the side safety which that's been the main one but I'm like what is the price for using it you know like is it gonna be just a little bit cheaper than when will it be normal when it's cheaper and more efficient because since that happens man does things change real fast when it's cheaper and more efficient as scared as I'm gonna be the minute I get in one for the first time I know intellectually I believe that it is safer than these things disconnected from a car driving them around and I think that will likely be the case will it be as cheap everybody keeps saying oh it's gonna be so cheap because you don't have to have as many cars it's like you know what it doesn't matter how much it costs to run it doesn't matter on demand and where you think you can make the money and is it gonna be a luxury service maybe to start out it's gonna have to be and it might take a lot for that price to come down yeah I think it's everything is coming together you know it's kind of like an AI it's still kind of wonky but everyone's working on it and things are advancing really fast there's definitely a price thing there's a tech thing there's an infrastructure thing so to be at a certain level for it to be a viable option but I would go back to that famous saying in the tech industry that tech people tend to overestimate what can be accomplished in 2 years and underestimate what can be accomplished in 10 so I wouldn't go that aggressive but maybe double that so we might be overestimating what's gonna be happening in 4 years but probably 20 years will be surprise and that's gonna make my 40-20 because my 40 is based on a lot of people who know this space saying it's gonna be 40 years before we really got this perfected and that principle of like they always overestimate it does make me think we'll make it work we're gonna go back to what was the darker challenge where they were doing the soft driving cars going on since the early 80s and we're still just getting the point out it's like okay let's test it in public what happened with Deep Lighter and that you know it was just what 5 years ago that it really took a leap forward and that's what we're seeing how we're seeing all of the you know incredible capabilities of computers now and so really it started working 5 years ago and already we're pretty far well anyone like the 2 year electric car for example the electric cars are taking off because batteries have gotten better batteries got better because we started using batteries and more things and we needed them to be more robust and smaller and more compact so now that batteries are better electric cars are far more prevalent than they used to be Tech Dad, one of our analysts not a question just says efficiency will be the thing that will get people to want to get into the self-driving cars he's like 3 plus hours of driving in Seattle for what used to take an hour if you can cut that down with self-driving cars that'll be a big thing so does that mean we're gonna be living farther away from where we work as well like you can work in your car yeah if suddenly it's like if the 30 minute commute from my house to Eileen's new office became what it should be which is like 10 to 15 minutes then yeah, suddenly you can't you can crack yellow traffic to the amount of money you give back at teaglass 1976 they said will the driverless car market be the new subscription service pay a monthly fee for your driverless car I think that's a possibility and pick up your nature box alright let's go to an in audience question I got two things one I just put a year and a half ago or two years ago you thought of the whole parking show you guys the instant pot on your show the instant pot yeah the pressure cooker oh right the connected pressure cooker right I think Belkin was involved in that anyways and I bought one I love it my girlfriend bought one and she puts me desserts and meals and they're incredible so yeah this is kind of an odd thing I forgot things there so the cooking show would be just press the button yeah that's about it ladies and gentlemen Mr. James Belkin here we go so my second one about the party line I grew up in a party line I grew up with Satellite TV the big 10 foot fiberglass dish because the cable company wouldn't run a cable another 600 meters off the road to my parents house and that's not where I paid for it which was it was an outrageous amount but nowadays with the rural areas there are a lot of wireless technologies that is not necessarily 5G cell service but there's been a lot over the last year so how do you guys feel about coming along would that be better than saying flying drones is there an investment in it I think it's hand in hand because that kind of stuff will help where you can put the towers and my sister one of the services she tried at rural Illinois was a microwave service being in wireless internet to a rooftop antenna that company just ended up going bust because they couldn't keep up with the speeds that ended up being available to her through DSL which came to her area and stuff like that but I think 5G wireless that's going to help fill the gaps or vice versa 5G can become a service that a lot of people can take advantage of in areas that are built up and even not that built up towns of 5,000 or less can get along with good 5G wireless service once it gets rolled out to them and I used to be very skeptical of this as replacing wired ethernet but I think for a lot of people it will and then for those places where like well it doesn't really make sense for us to put any kind of 5G service out there because we won't get as many customers and our customers that do have it don't drive there that's where you have the ocula flight that's where you have the balloons and things like that I guess I have no box I mean it's amazing that my parents still can get these in international they're literally a 30 minute drive from Ford's Kansas reporting so I don't know what the answer is in those cases it's not a technology problem yeah a couple pieces of housekeeping here usually on these analysts hangouts that we do the Q&A with the Slack I keep people up to date on how DTNS is doing and hopefully I want to do that DTNS is doing great my latest measure has been can we get one patron more than the previous month and so far this month we've been held to that so we've got minutes left in the last day of the month so hopefully not enough people quit by the end of the day that it stays that way but DTNS is on really solid footing we'd like it to start growing so that we can do more things that we have and hire some more people to do some interesting things and maybe have me be able to take more days off and stuff like that but because of the continued support of so many patrons many of who have been with us right from the beginning that's on solid footing I kind of answered the rest of my state of things with your question earlier so otherwise it's just that we're going to keep trying to do what we do better make sure that we're delivering the same amount of information in an amount of time that you can keep up with which is one of the reasons we gave Daily Tech headlines as an option for people who maybe they love listening to DTNS but they miss a day or two and they just want to catch up there's all kinds of ways that you can cobble together what we're offering there I want to throw it out to Roger and even Len because I know I see the Len still hanging out with us if you guys have got anything to add it's hard to break in when we're talking live is there anything that you wanted to chime in with? Me? Yeah you or Roger No I was just listening I was just listening Yeah that's cool Roger anything from your end? You wasn't No this happens all the time because we didn't pick titles I just named it live from the reticular we didn't find out when he muted himself he couldn't unmute himself so what's happening right now happens almost every show we can't hear Roger he quits Chrome restarts it rejoins and then we can hear Roger I don't really have much to add really the the only thing that I might have had a topic on was kind of the the Germany Facebook find for hate speech because someone already mentioned and you guys addressed it pretty well because I had this conversation with Tom before on a completely different topic but it was political is that for any kind of law or kind of ownership put on civil liberties you kind of want to turn it around and kind of think of it as well what if there's a party or a group in power that I don't like how can they then use that to limit my ability for free expression and everything is a balance and it's not an absolute balance it's relative balance based on the community the people that governs and so different places are different some work some sort of work but yeah it's there's a bigger discussion I mean it could be very well it could be a very good test case to see if it's something like this could be a broader reaching at the same time you know when certain countries crack down on twitter or facebook feeds we consider that to be overly authoritarian or perhaps dangerous because you know information isn't falling so that isn't to say that this is the case but you know things that look similar might always be the same Any thoughts on the state of the show or anything? The state of the show yeah I like it it's a good show Roger Fixie produces a pretty good show do you guys agree? yeah I think I mentioned this last time but I would try to integrate guests into the show don't necessarily have the same flexibility as other guests we have on the show to show up at the same time it's a discussion Tom and I have had about like separately do we roll it in do we roll in I don't do that a raft of other things yeah I just want to say something publicly if I will I'm just really happy to be a part of Daily Tech show for the past couple years and it's really amazing that you've been able to let me draw on Fridays I can't think of another tech show that does that and it's a really great opportunity to be able to do that so I hope that we can continue and I hope everybody likes it and you know just let me come along for the ride I love it personally I think it's great you do great art and it's always fun to see the different takes on stuff excellent thank you I mean like Lens are working so I think the show would be the same so Lens you are a credit my friend to Daily Tech New Show give it up to Lens by the way I wasn't fishing for compliments at all no I know you were at fishing you don't fish alright what's our next question Hi there my question deals with politicians and regulations they make on technology I remember one of my strongest early internet memories is here and politicians drive the internet with a series of tubes and we've come a long way since then but I notice that many of our politicians are over they don't grow often involved with this technology as a teacher who's not much older than the students that teach in high school I have trouble keeping up with it you all on a daily basis how do we address this issue generally over maybe so we have a kind of politician regulating the technology how do you educate them further I think it's tempting for us to think oh it's old people who don't get technology and I see that many of you in this room are old people who absolutely get technology so it's not it's not determinative that just because of your age you don't get technology I think we forget that our elected representatives aren't experts in a lot of stuff there's all kinds of issues going well maybe we don't forget you're right but we forget like if you want to bring it to a little less of a shrill example in your own head bring it down to your local city council they're not experts in water management they're not experts in asphalt they're not experts in all kinds of things even in policing that you need to run a city so they rely on experts to inform them and help them gain an understanding and the same goes for your national governments as well which is you need to make sure that you're electing people who are willing to listen to reliable sources and take advice and understand the problems not just in technology but all arenas that's certainly the biggest part of the problem I think but it's also true that technology can be fast and changed a lot of things absolutely from like a destroyed industries and building ones up from nothing so it's also expected I think that there's going to be a little time needed for those groups to go for lack of a better word adapt to the reality of the new world of the new industries so those politicians that maybe aren't experts in many things need to also be surrounded by not just the people who have been there forever who know about draining water and policing but also include people who know about the real thickness issues of the technology world and maybe that's taken a little bit because we know the technology world but it's very likely that there are people working in I don't know gene therapy or like Elon Musk is frustrated that things don't move as quickly like I mean other fields that also feel the same way and technology has a big impact if you're into technology and tech that mentioned this in our Slack and you have the time and resources volunteer to help your local government understand technology may not be able to listen but tech that says he does that in his local community so you may be surprised in fact the universe around you it will always make you happier if you put some effort into what's going on and I would only add a caveat to your statement that I don't know if the young elements of our representative democracy are all that smart about technology either so you know I wouldn't just put it on the orange hatch I wake up and pick on orange hatch I mean sometimes you get a dimsy-do I think the demonstration part is probably the most important right now at the same time as the series of tubes it was Christmas time a daughter gave her dad an iPad or an iPod and he was playing around with the team back and they were talking about mental neutrality and he was like the senator was like does this mean that I could lose the access to the halon and I'm against this likewise if you're high school or grade school but as even someone like me when you're looking at technologies that the schools are using to help keep their parents informed the teacher sends home a note that says hey we want you to get on board this XYZ program my wife and I are like nothing about this it sounds dumb it sounds stupid but then as soon as we see what it's doing and helping us to communicate with the teacher and helping us to see how the school is running then suddenly it makes a lot of sense that this piece of technology is wonderful and we couldn't live without it affect local gadget virtuoso and our Slack also asked if the milestones on Patreon are still valid the one that is there is still valid but we do, that's another thing that Roger and I have been kind of talking about we need to sit down and talk more with the rest of the co-host too about maybe coming up with some achievable future milestones yeah you know there's there's a lot that DGNAS offers and I think plenty of people that are here that support the show that would like to engage more with it get more out of the Patreon some of my people want to kick up the Patreon for that so I think that there's a million different ways that people go anything else is just talking about conversations that we've had can I give you a free plug what's that? if you're not a patron of the Daily Tech YouTube you really should because there's a bunch of phone's content that you only get from that feed which I find so encyclical and invaluable that that's the reason why there's a weekly column you get as a patron and Tom and I do a pre-show on Thursdays on Thursdays when we're not traveling with the tech glitter and those are often as long if not longer than the show is us talking about the show and I think it's really fun and I always really really enjoy doing it I'm not a playing news it's our pitch mea newsroom don't do it Teaglass 1976 asks who's your favorite patron every every second it's a new one or maybe that should be a milestone just you who's ever listening become my favorite patron make us hit this milestone exactly all right do we have any other questions yes we're starting to run low on time but I think we can fit in a few more anyways I appreciate it so my question is this when do you think AI will make a lot of decisions like humans do and how do you think we will react to them so for example would be like a car deciding to gear off and hit someone or not or making choices for us that we have personal AIs and they make kind of a flawed decision almost purposely and then how do we deal with that but it makes a choice that's almost human asked are you talking about malevolent AIs I'm assuming before they realize they could just take us all over yeah baby steps to evil yes they are adapting to us realizing we're doing it with humans they have to make choices that aren't necessarily there was a story that I read and was also on we have concerns another fine podcast if you haven't subscribed to it about introducing intentional essentially incompetence into AI for a particular kind of problem solving helped speed up the problem solving when you made the AI just a little dumber it actually made things work better and I won't you don't read the article or listen to the episode we have concerns although Jeff cannot it gets it all big shots big shots I love Jeff I do and I want to explain why I think that soon I will you should you should get that episode to read that article because it's really interesting why that effect happens and that could be the kind of effect we're like oh well we need to build in a certain amount of error to make things more efficient in which case it could lead to unintended side effects like you're talking about yeah I mean AIs make mistakes all the time sometimes they are you know on various new changes sometimes you know they are failed so I think we are in for more of that as technology continues to fall it's almost like the question is when will they start making wrong decisions I think we can almost be asking when will they be making the right decisions because now they're kind of cute little toys we're not there yet and at some point we're going to rely on them for some stuff and they're going to be making so I think we'll know it's not like one day it's going to be that works and everything's fine and oh my god they made a mistake it's going to be you know slowly that's not a cat that they identified a couple of quick things from the Slack and then I think we'll take one more question and we're going to have to wrap things up BioCal did you want to say it on the mic or yeah alright we'll come right back to you Hammond if you could shuttle the mic over to BioCal over there he last 1976 says can we expect more weekly clickbait articles what he means is my column in the Patreon this week was titled why the iPhone isn't that important my first sentence was I know this sounds like clickbait let me explain and you'll have to be a patron to read more about that but no I don't want to be that was clickbait I don't want future articles to intentionally be clickbait I don't want this in mind for a particular reason I think it also said if you have a certain love of the evocative headline what was my first job at Sina with right headphones five hot asian phones got me in trouble alright so BioCal yeah we're going to have a question about politicians kind of have been technologically savvy this time of the same time recently my local rep and she pushed hard for Aaron's law and for men's property and I found out throughout this multiple times thank you for that and telling me to keep up the good work so just talk to your politicians local senators state senators encourage them on those topics they are listed an hour after working for it there's also the belief that people inside physical mail is still something that is counted quite a bit in Congress letters postcards that is something that people take very very to heart so it's like mine right to attack is cool keep those telegrams alright we got one last question and it's back on the topic again kind of the hate speech I don't know how many of you here are caught up on Black Mirror or not those years have been not how much squeezing is Facebook and other companies going to take financially before they start considering murderous fees to solve their hate speech problems so you mean charge for removal or I mean how long are they going to I guess put up with people using their platform to push their agenda I guess you could say before considering alternative methods like murderous fees murder people who hate speech I thought you were saying murderous fees that's no fees like in a high murderous fees makes your question make so much more sense to me so what they just going to charge the extremists like that's not going to work murderous fees the potential for murderous fees from Facebook Twitter probably from Twitter before self-driving cars I mean that's what their platform is not murderous fees but expressing your opinion so that's the whole issue they're core business from the issues that the core business causes so they're going to tolerate it until they die from it they're going to try to weed out the toxic uses of their platform but it's not like they can say alright you guys I mean we're going to shut things down good bye Facebook is done so they can they wouldn't have to shut down they just said the murderous fees yeah that's true so the problem then becomes identifying the people that you're going to send murderous fees to they're just you know moving the problem to another level what's the liability for accidental B death wrongful B death it's a whole system yeah because the AI screwed up it all makes sense well big thanks to Len Peralta for joining us and drawing today thank you Len welcome thank you for having me thank you Roger Chang from producing from our home office in Burbank California I know you're not in Burbank it's a sound better than Glendale thank you Stephen Schleicher for joining us Justin Robert Young Action News Patrick Beja Dr Patrick Patrick Beja I'm Tom Merritt thanks again to all of our patrons especially our analysts and everybody who supports the show at patreon.com big thanks to every single one of you for coming out hanging out with us right now you guys are the best