 And we're all set. OK, thanks, Nate. So we do have a quorum. And here's Sid, yay. Sid, right, there he is. OK, so. It's on vacation. Sid at the beach or wherever he is, or wherever he's pretending to be. That's actually 30 seconds for my house in Cape Verde. Wow. Woo. Really? Sid. Yeah. When you sit back in your chair, your shoulders disappear and just your head in the middle of the. Yeah, it's one of the vagaries of Zoom. Yeah. OK, so I think all the board that's coming aboard, at least as far as trust members are concerned. I do have a few announcements. First of all, we have a new town council liaison. The new town council liaison is Jennifer Taub. But unfortunately, she's not with us this evening. And Paul is also not with us this evening for the same reason. They are both attending the town council's TSO committee. And I can't remember what TSO is. Town service or town services or some town services on something. OK, sounds good to me. Anyway, and there's a lot of conflicts between the night that we meet and the night that that group meets. So, oh, George, town services and outreach. Thank you, George. OK, thanks to George, Ryan. Anyway, so I sent a note to Paul asking him whether I should ask this group if we could meet on Tuesday or Wednesday evening instead of Thursday. I'm reluctant to try to an afternoon time because the last time I tried that, like we're shaking our head, no, as is Erica. Too many people working. So that doesn't work. So would is there anybody who couldn't do it on a Tuesday or a Thursday or Tuesday or Wednesday evening instead of Thursday? I'm planning board meets Wednesday nights. And so I've been going to their meetings and it's like, you know, every other Wednesday. But last year for seven months, it was every Wednesday. So I have something every other Wednesday. Two that's kind of I mean, I could make it work, but. OK, but it looks like Wednesday is hard. Monday is out because that's when town council meets. So I will try out Tuesday on Paul. And if that seems like it would be better than Thursday for him, then. I think I'll move the meeting unless somebody right now says, now that's a terrible idea, John. I just I have something on Tuesdays, but I think it's the first Tuesday. So if this were the fourth Tuesday, if it's moved to still stays in the same week, I think the fourth Tuesday would work for me. Well, this we've been doing the second week of the month. Oh, the second. OK. I'm going to make let me. If the second Wednesday would, you know, technically works for me as long as the planning board doesn't lead to an actual meeting. Yeah. I can do a second week of Wednesday, not third, though. OK, well, I will try. Second second Tuesday, right? Yeah, I think that I think that. The sooner that it's if you do it, the sooner that we know so we can get it, like scheduled out in advance, the better. Because I understand. Of course, you know that I'm just right. No, that's good. And so first choice would be second Tuesday. Second choice would be second Wednesday, right? OK, I'll try those out. OK, so. As of. Our next meeting. Which will be. It's April 14th. Yeah, April 14th. We should have two new members. Paul is nominating two people who were interviewed a week or two ago. And I expect that they will be approved by town council. I can tell you who they are. The first person is Risha Hess. And Paul's description, which goes to town council, was as follows. Miss Hess returned to Amherst, where she grew up. She has been a public health communication consultant for over 20 years. She is passionate about affordable housing, public health and social justice. She has direct experience in finding housing in an expensive rental market and with individuals experiencing homelessness. And then the second person is Ashley Jensen. Miss Jensen stated that she would bring the perspective of a person living in the community as a person of color. She is a therapist and social worker whose clientele includes very low income and unhoused individuals. She is very interested in housing policy and is working toward a master's degree in public policy at the University of Massachusetts. Her interest is in helping people navigate the sometimes baffling process of finding subsidized housing, a process she has yet to discover on her own. So, Risha and Ashley will probably be joining us in April. I certainly hope that's the case. And I know Ashley, I think attended our last meeting and I thought she might be with us tonight, but I don't see her yet among attendees. So that's good news. The bad news is that Lucia Tarowski has resigned. The press of her commitments to her graduate program in public policy have made it difficult for her to meet her obligations to the trust, which answers your question to me, Carol, via email shortly or a little earlier today, which was, did I miss the last minutes? And the answer to that is no, you didn't miss them. We're short of minutes for January, February, and we don't have anybody doing minutes tonight. So, but I think I will try to catch up for all of those meetings. The minutes probably won't be as extensive as they have been, but hopefully they'll be sufficient for our needs. And I'll be sending those out before our April meeting. So those are my announcements. Anything else, Carol? So is that a position that you'll be trying to replace? I presume. Yes, we will. Are there any candidates yet or is it too early for that? It's a little early, and Nate and I have yet to talk about this, but we should launch a search in the near future. OK. In the past, actually, Rita has been the person who launched the search and she's out of town at the moment. So when she returns, I'll be talking to her about launching a new search or Nate and I both played a role in it. I know that I contacted various programs at the University asking them to post the announcement that Rita had developed. So hopefully we'll get on that the next week. So sorry about that, but it is what it is. Let's see. So the next item is discussion and review of the request for funding for East Gables from Valley Community Development, East Gables, also known as 132 North Hampton Road or Amherst Studio Apartments now has a new and a final name, I hope we'll find out for sure from Laura Baker very shortly. I did send out the proposal. She used a document at our request for proposals for trust funding that we developed three or four years ago. And, well, now we are using it. So that's what she used to make the request, which is good. It's more extensive than what the Community Preservation Act Committee would have required. On the other hand, CPA fund cycle is such that it's not available right now. And that cycle wouldn't begin till next fall and the money wouldn't be available, even if it was approved for close to a year after that. So I think, as I said in my notes, the costs of construction have been rising. People may be aware of that considerably. And as a consequence, Laura, she'll maybe tell us a little bit more about this, has found a significant shortfall. She's asking us to cover a part of it, but she's also asking the Department of Housing and Community Development to cover the lion's share of it. And as with other proposals to DHCD, it helps if local government has some skin in the game. So, Nate, can you promote Laura to the panel because I don't want to do this presentation for her? Although she's not going to present or do an extensive presentation. She's really here mostly to answer questions based on the proposal that was submitted. She was denying my request, John, to be a Corona's panelist first. So I think she wants it to be a really simple presentation. Oh, my lighting is so bad. It is, you. I have the irrelevant comment that I like your haircut. Looks even better when I have decent lighting, Carol. Sorry about that, everybody. That's why I like. I'm not sure we should be commenting on someone's appearance. So I am here at your discretion. I have the proposal. All hundred and some odd pages queued up could walk through that, could give you a just quick overview. I also brought a budget with me that shows kind of our one stop budget, which is our funding application budget in comparison to our current budget. Maybe I'll just start big picture. So we find ourselves with almost a million dollar shortfall. A little bit unexpectedly, we had we had a generous budget, but costs have been just increasing faster than we can keep up with them. And in particular, there was a spike in lumber prices in January of about twenty twenty five percent, just as we were trying to get our contractor to sign something and they balked. So when we went out to bid for the construction for this project called called Now and Forever East Gables, we had a construction budget of five point one million. Bids came out back ranging from five point eight five to seven million. We value engineered with the low bidder, which is Western Builders, down to about five point six million. Then the lumber spike hit and now we're at about five point nine million. So it's been a little bit of a roller coaster. I will tell you that of the gap that we have, we've already have commitments from DHC to fill most of it. So they're going to put in a little over six hundred thousand dollars in additional funds. Really, they basically insisted that we also ask the town and they're doing that to all of the developers, not just Valley, who are trying to close deals in Massachusetts because they are all over budget. And some of them buy multiple millions of dollars. So it's a huge issue for the state to try to so everybody's budget back together. So they said everybody has to ask at their towns and cities and that everybody has to put in some of their own developers fee. So we committed twenty five thousand of the fee that we're supposed to earn from the project as what's called a deferred developer fee. So so we put something in. They just kind of like everybody, everybody has to put something in the pot to try to close these gaps. So the other gaps, the other gap fillers are we are doing Passive House certification for the project. We will get some incentive money from that about a hundred thousand. So that was the other source that we kind of added to help try to fill this the gap that we were facing. So our budget bumped up about 10 percent. It's I mean, honestly, it could be worse given what's happening in the world of construction. When I reached out to the town, I was told and it's true that CPA money were kind of off cycle for that. We're off cycle for CDPG and the ARPA money is pretty much already committed. And there is a question about how ARPA money will get used with tax credit, affordable housing that's unresolved. So that kind of left the trust last one standing. So hence the application and I think I'll stop there and just let people ask questions or if you want me to go through the application, I can, but hoping people at least got to glance at it before the meeting since it's lengthy, whatever your pleasure. Laura, I think it would help me and maybe other people to talk about the fiscal context of the request. So, you know, your total costs now are, you said, six point nine. What were they before? How much money was the town planning to put in before? And if you add the hundred, what does that come to? So questions like that would be helpful. The town had already made what I think is an awfully generous contribution to this project. And it's it's a point that we made several times to this date. So the town had committed 500,000 in CPA and about 248,000 in CDBG. So close to 750,000 with this if this additional hundred thousand were awarded from the trust would bring a total to just under 850,000, which is a little over 30,000 per unit. So as you think about your guidelines, I know there's some guidelines with respect to how much per unit you want to have go into a project. Can folks see this colorful budget? Yeah. Yeah. OK. So what you're seeing here is this is this is the one stop application that we put in, and this was the grand total of that application. And this is today's budget, and that's the grand total down there. You can see the town's money coming in, CPA money coming in here and then CDBG money coming in here. You can see the increases that have happened from the state, primarily here. So we had received originally 400,000 of state tax credits. We were granted an increase up to 550,000. What's what you should know about tax credits is that the state program is a five year program, so you got 150,000 over five years. So it's more than it sounds like. And then you sell them and the yield currently is here, eighty one and a half cents per credit dollar. You can see our developer fee going in here. This is this is the request that we're making to the trust this evening. And this is the passive house incentive funds. We also were able to get some solar tax credits because we were intending to put a PV system on the roof and we can monetize that as well with some tax credits. And then you see a construction loan coming in and going out again. So it's short term borrowing and a bridge loan financing that comes into the project and then it gets repaid from permanent sources. So we are at a total development cost. So we were at three twenty four now we're at three fifty six. And I will say it seems like a lot. It is a lot of money statewide. I think people are are struggling to stay under five hundred thousand per unit, which is horrifying and that might be a little different. These are very small studio units, so they're probably going to cost less than three bedroom unit would. But you still have to put baths and kitchens and elevator and mechanicals and all of that kind of expensive parts into the building. Does that answer your question, John? Yeah, and I just have one comment. Yeah, which is it looks like with the added hundred thousand, you're asking the town for I lost track of it. Eight hundred and forty eight thousand. Thank you, which is less than 10 percent of the total cost of the project. That's true. And it's just over thirty thousand per unit. Right. So I I think that's reasonable given other projects that we funded or this town has funded that are for affordable housing. They might be a little bit cheaper than thirty thousand per unit, but not much, if at all. And, you know, for the town to put in less than 10 percent. Again, I think is reasonable for an affordable housing project. Obviously, from my point of view, it means that a lot of other money is being leveraged with that 10 percent. So the town gets back a project that's worth almost ten million dollars for its costs, which are a little under a million. So it seems like a reasonable deal to me. You know, and I did talk to Laura about it a little bit earlier in the week. So personally, I feel it's something that we should support. Yeah. And I just put just one comment. I think the hardest part for us is, you know, we go in at the beginning, town puts its money in early and we say, oh, this is it. We're never, ever, ever coming back to ask you for more money. This is one of the few times that we've we've had to do that. So I feel bad about that. But I also know we have to do what DHCD tells us to do because they give us without them, there's no project. So anyway, sorry, Carol, to cut you off. That's OK. No, that's fine. I just wondered, there's another Amherst line on here. Amherst Housing Authority for fifty thousand dollars. Yeah. Is that I mean, so does that mean that there's actually those five hundred, two forty eight and fifty and another hundred. So it's actually another or is that something different? You know, that we have a couple of other local sources that I consider private sources. So the Interfaith Housing is a local private source. Amherst Housing Authority, essentially someone donated a house to the Housing Authority and they sold it. And it created this little pool of grant funds that they had available at the Housing Authority around for my understanding is a long time. So Nancy Schroeder advocated for them to grant some of it to this project. So it's not public money, per se. It's not money that was came through public channels to the Housing Authority. They decided to use that grant to support this project, which I think is a pretty powerful statement, honestly. Housing Authority is, you know, they need their money. So it was it's very impressive to me that they did this. Yeah, I agree. And for people who don't know it, the Interfaith Housing Corporation is something that was established, I don't know, 25 or 30 years ago for development of affordable housing. I think it was Village Park, is that right, Nate? Anyway, Village Park was ultimately sold and the Interfaith Housing Corporation as an investor received money and they had that money for a while. Some of it went to fund Craig's Doors or specifically Craig's Place. But ultimately, they are also interested in funding actual affordable housing. And so they granted $100,000 to Valley Community Development. I think we either have a commitment or are expecting a smaller commitment of additional funds from Valley Community, not from Valley, sorry, from the Interfaith Housing Corporation. They were kind of holding off, maybe deciding how much and what amount because they had earlier made some pledges to Craig's Doors for development. They hope Craig's Doors might do. But at this point, it doesn't look like Craig's Doors is going to be doing a development. Anyway, so, well, that's a little bit murky, but they're probably going to go out of business when they decide what to do with their remaining funds, which are. I can't remember exact amount, but I think it was under $50,000. Let's see, Erica's hand. Yeah, thank you. So this seems very reasonable and I'm very well thought out. And I agree, just having experience with the state. We like to see local towns be engaged and in kitchen. My question is, and this is probably a tougher one, which is that I heard you say you don't like to come back, but you're just breaking ground and we've got a few years ahead. How do you maintain? How do you ensure you, you know, those costs are maintained? Yeah. Oh, keeps me up at night. So we are due to break ground this month. We're expecting about a 14 month build. So that is that is the development period. The operating budget, which is what plays out year to year, is a separate budget based on rents coming in and expenses going out. So we're just looking at the initial, you know, production of the units. So what we've done here and we're really trying to hang on to is this construction contingency line, which is currently at 10 percent. We originally had a rosier view of things and have a lower percentage construction contingency. This is our best protection to get through construction and not dip even deeper into our developer's fee, which is what happens. So we've negotiated with the general contractor kind of a special arrangement around material price escalation that it can't exceed more than five percent of the total contract price. So that helps protect us and then another five percent, because there are always things that are not correct on the plans that have to be dealt within the field. And then down below, the other place to look is the developer fee. I mean, this is the part, you know, we'll get 25,000 less if it goes into the project, but then this is all money at risk. So we don't get to draw this developer fee until after the place is rented up and operating break even. So again, this is the other kind of backstop against, you know, you know, really to ensure that the project gets built and it's required by the big money investors up here, tax credit investors, they won't release their funds until we get to that final stage of the project. Thank you, Laura. Sure. But we're nervous. Everyone is the builder is nervous, the subcontractors are nervous. It's been a wild ride for folks trying to work in this field. So, Laura, if this is going to be East Gables, yes, where do you plan to put West Gables? I know, we just thought we're just talking about that. Well, there's the Gables, which is also a project. It's a condo association in Northampton. So I don't know where we put West Gables, but. Yeah, we played with all names, you know, because we have Gables on every side of this building, South Gables, North Gables, Green Gables. OK, are there other just to clarify, if this were granted, can you explain a time frame when it would be needed to be committed or how that would work? Yeah. So as I mentioned, we're trying to close and begin construction next week. So we want to move quickly. It's more important to us to have the commitment. A lot of these funds we don't have physically in hand, and we won't need them day one. We'll start to need them as we go through construction. So we could schedule with the town an appropriate time to actually draw down the funds. It could be four months, six months, whatever is convenient for you, folks. We try to draw this money before we use a lot of the construction though, because that bears interest and this doesn't bear interest. But that part is flexible, but we are hoping to that the committee can work swiftly on a commitment. You know, I just having sat through many meetings during which this application was developed, I would say that part of the impetus for it was to give access to money that could move faster than the typical CPA and CDBG cycles. And this is maybe a good example of that kind of situation where we need to move quickly. And you'd be drawing down this probably with the other town funds that have been committed, like the half a million dollar CPA funding and that the CDBG money. CDBG money is spent, it went into pre-development. So we're just looking to draw the CPA money and we've had conversations with Nate. Well, you know, we'll coordinate with the town to the logistics of how and when to draw the funds. Other questions or comments? The other good news is we already going to have an affordable house and deep restriction with the town. So if a lot of the legal side of things is already done because the town already has money in the deal. The more you spend, the more you save. OK, you haven't started the process of looking for people to be in the pool of individuals who would be selected, right? We have not. So I don't know. There was an article that came out recently and I think the reporter included that people should kind of call next year if they want to. We've already started getting calls from folks and it's just it's too soon. We don't have an application prepared. And so it's really probably the very beginning of next year that will start doing a lot of marketing and outreach in the state. At least verbally has approved the town's local preference request, and so there will be a preference for units for Amherst residents or employees or folks who have kids in the schools. So we'll be trying to spread the word, you know, most intensively throughout the Amherst area. And we do affirmative marketing as well. So we'll be reaching out to kind of underserved communities to make sure they know about it, too. Yeah, I think one one thing that occurs to me is reaching out to people who live in the large rental projects in town. There are people, I mean, some people are OK in the sense that they have housing vouchers or other kinds of subsidies. But then there are other people who are living there who don't have those. And so subsidized units would indeed be helpful. OK, maybe we ask some of. Other town organizations or committees to get involved in that in some way. Yeah, we have a pretty, you know, it's a pretty detailed outreach plan. We do kind of hit all the social service agencies and places like that. We'll actually put flyers up in town and we'll do a pretty put an ad in the paper. You know, we try to use multiple website. The trust might want to put it on its website and we'll we'll really try to get the word out because the lottery is your best chance. I mean, the waitlist for places are so long that it's a unique opportunity for people to get housing. Laura, we submitted, though, the justification for local preference to DHD already, right? You did. Yeah, OK. Yeah, there's also a racial. There's a racial equity group in town that has a website. So we should make an effort to post an announcement there as well. Yeah, I mean, I think I think in past projects are, you know, with Beacon and others, just the way, especially with social media, you can post things. I feel like the word does get out, you know, then through different, you know, with they, you know, we have paper flyers in town hall. We distribute them as well. And I feel like, you know, we do emails, I email people. So I feel like it definitely gets out there more than, say, like 10 years ago where maybe it's like, yeah, you have you have to come to town hall and read an ad and a newspaper. Yeah, really. So I will I will tell you when we were marketing Sergeant House, which is a pretty similar project in Northampton railings group. Oh, my gosh, dozens. They sent us dozens of applications. So they they, you know, worked one on one with people who didn't have housing to fill out those applications and come in. So, you know, there's a strong audience from Amherst. Yeah, I'm sure family outreach of Amherst would be interested. And there's a third group. Well, the Survival Center. Yeah, certainly. Yeah, all of those groups would probably be interested in advertising. OK, is there any further discussion? I just wanted to make a comment, you know, when you see community based organizations providing some support, what's really missing at the three colleges, I know it's out of our control. But, you know, each of the colleges, I can't remember the formal name of the group, but they each have a group that intends to do kind of social service type projects. And students can receive academic credit for it. I just can't remember what the names of those groups are. But each of the colleges, UMass, Hampshire and Amherst all have these groups. So if you query me, I'll dig it out. So on Friday, I was participating in there's a capstone project happening around creating permanent supportive housing for folks who are homeless and have students from Amherst College and UMass participating. And the Amherst College students have already identified a college owned piece of property that they're going to go to their college and ask for so they can build permanent supportive housing there. And they're I was very impressed with the students. I mean, they're they're young, young in the race of the world. But, you know, really smart, really dedicated, really on, you know, on point. I was it's it's impressive with this person. So I think it's interesting, Erica, because it's like that it's not up here. It's it's it's the students that are the, you know, the future. And that's where we need to mobilize, I think. The person at Amherst College who heads the group I'm trying to think of is Sarah Barr. I don't know if you know, Sarah. But I can get in touch with her. Yeah, there's there's stuff happening at the colleges that's quite a bit more left of center and proactive than the normal town down stuff. OK, students at Amherst College are really interested in this particular project at 132 Northampton Road. I think that's kind of what woke them up because it's right there. And it was so controversial. So there's been spin offs from that, which is nice to see. OK, so I propose that the Housing Trust allocate one hundred thousand dollars of its funds for to Valley Community Development to supplement earlier town support for its project at East Gables or 132 Northampton Road. Is there a second to that motion? A second. Is there any discussion, Rob? We just be reminded of how much money we have. We have one hundred and one thousand dollars. I'm teasing the we are four hundred thousand right now. There's still some incumbrances that can be liquidated. So the trust probably has quite close to about five fifty and then, you know, there's CPAS that are, you know, in the process now. So, you know, and then of that five hundred thousand, which is unencumbered, there's still probably about one hundred thousand, one hundred fifty thousand that's encumbered. So, you know, the total trust right now probably has about six hundred and six hundred fifty thousand. And I believe the CPA recommendations to town council for the Housing Trust was an additional two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So if town council, sorry, I sort of asked for more. I did, Laura. That's what I'm hearing. Next year, it's good because the next project trust had, you know, a fair amount in the rental assistance program, but, you know, we were reimbursed through covid and cares money. So, you know, if that had all been trust money, we'd have a lot less. So we're really fortunate that we were able to, you know, get reimbursed that way, otherwise we'd have, you know, maybe just two hundred thousand dollars to, you know, a little over that available. OK, are we ready to come to a vote? Looks like we are. So I will ask people to vote as they appear on my screen. Erica. Yes, Carol. Yes, Allegra. Yes, Rob. Yes, and Sid. Yes, and I'm a yes. So we vote to approve these funds six to zero. Thank you very much. We really appreciate the town support. Great. Well, thank you for coming this evening, Laura. Of course. And we appreciate the work that you're doing. Thank you. As long as you're here, you want to give us an update on your possible home ownership project, or is that premature? I will give you an update at an undisclosed location somewhere in Amherst. We have optioned a piece of property. It's a little over eight acres. It is in the Qualified Census tract, which opens the door for financing through really the only home ownership program for development of any substance in Massachusetts. It's called Commonwealth Builders through mass housing. And so we've we're kind of in the site feasibility stage of doing some tests on that property. So far, they've been really favorable. And so we're looking at applying for acquisition, financing, as well as pre-development financing to kind of advance that project. We'd be looking at somewhere between 26 to 30 units of home ownership housing. Probably, you know, a mix, you know, some singles and duplexes. It's we're kind of it's not co-housing, but it that's kind of the aesthetic that we're looking at and the pocket neighborhood kind of design where, you know, the houses are small and efficient and kind of clustered together. And then you have open space for the whole community to enjoy. So we're super excited. There hasn't been hardly any home ownership development of scale. I mean, Habitat has been chugging along and the community land trust as well. But the scale is just it's small. And we we know because we offer mortgage assistance in Amherst. It is getting I mean, I look at the MLS almost every day and the stuff that's coming for sale in Amherst is, you know, six to eight hundred thousand. It's gone in a day. I'm like, there's like four houses for sale. Oh, my God, it's it is unreal what's going on. So anyway, we're excited about that potential and we'll come back to you. When we start raising money for it. Well, I think all your efforts, this is great, Laura. Thank you. OK. We're going to move on to the next agenda item, but not exactly in order. The next agenda item was supposed to be talking with Dave Zomek about ARPA Fund. Oh, Dave just joined us, I see. He just came from a. Capital projects meeting for the town. He had a prior engagement, but now he's joined us so we can move on to talk about ARPA. I will say there's one. Limitation to what Dave can talk about. They are actually looking at specific properties and started a process of evaluating one property in town. He will not be able to talk about specific properties that they are looking at because, honestly, he doesn't want those properties to be grabbed up before they can move ahead with them, which is always a risk. I know it's a risk that Laura has talked about in the past, which is why she talked just a minute ago about an unidentified property in Amherst. So Dave will join us and he will, I think, as I said, an email or to everybody, including Dave, talk about the process of deciding what to do with ARPA and what kinds of programs or projects the town is considering for the money that's available, both for a shelter and for affordable housing. So Dave, thanks for joining us for doing your second meeting tonight. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. We can't see you. And there's no way to make my video, Nate. I don't know who's. Yeah, sure. I'll probably get a panelist, Dave, and then and then that should work. Well, Dave's joining us. I want to just echo what Laura said about home ownership. Valley is running a program and they emailed later this evening a little bit before this meeting and said that they're having trouble just given the home prices and the competitive nature of investors buying properties. You know, it's a we hear it, but it's it does happen. So it's interesting that, you know, we funded home ownership programs with CPA for a number of years and, you know, it takes a while even just to find, you know, two to four to have eligible buyers to be able to purchase a home, right? So it might take a year and a half to get four people to buy homes. It's just it's really difficult. So it's exciting to hear that there's some maybe some new development. Yeah, the Amherst Community Land Trust is in a similar situation. I think they still have CPA funds for one additional home purchase. Is that right, Rob? And they're working. It's like the gap, right? So it's like the money you need to the, you know, it's like the home price and then the money you you have to qualify for and everything. There's just a very narrow window of income eligibility for Amherst residents. So, yeah, John, I guess I'm going to take my cues a little bit from you. You and I chatted earlier in the day and we're in a little bit of an odd situation here in that I think we had hoped to perhaps have an executive session with this group. But we're unable to do that, I think, because it wasn't included on the agenda. So I feel like I'd love to answer questions from the trust. But again, as Laura was was careful not to, you know, talk specifics in her earlier presentation about what what Valley is up to. I'm in that same situation now with with the town. I guess I'm happy to talk in general about, you know, some of the efforts we're we're looking at with with regard to the ARPA funds. And then, you know, I'm also happy to kind of update you on other other developments. I'm staring also at your agenda to make sure that we are in line with Open Meeting Law. So how would you like me to proceed, John? Well, I think almost in any order. But I'm certainly curious about the process within Town Hall for deciding what ARPA projects to pursue. Um, you know, I'd like to know in general what you think the likelihood is that there'll be a project that gives us a permanent shelter. Because I know that's of interest to at least one, if not more people who are present here tonight. As I said to you on the phone, a priority for housing trust members has been supporting home ownership. And so the question is, you know, what's the role of ARPA funds potentially in supporting new home ownership problem projects? There's a way in which they might possibly. And then at one point, and I have to admit, this is my pet project. I'm not sure anybody else feels as strongly as I do. But I had talked to ECAC, that is Laura Drauker, and also Stephanie Chickarello and others about potentially using ARPA funds to provide some support to the larger landlords, potentially in Amherst, potentially others as well, to electrify their heating and to do other things that would end up reducing their heating costs and improve the quality of units, particularly air quality. So all of those at one point were things that we talked about and that we presented at least to Sean. And so, you know, the question in my mind, and I think other people's mind is where are you and what can we do to continue to promote these ideas? Where do we fit in also in the decision making that you're now undergoing in town hall? OK, that's good. I asked for direction. There's a lot there, a lot to unpack. So let me let me try to see I can start off and I'm happy to take questions and and and we'll go from there. So I think as most people on the call know, it was probably late December, early January that that the town manager really you know, began to finalize with lots of input from the community, from you all, the various categories for the use of ARPA funds arriving at about a million dollars for homelessness and in the search for a permanent shelter and then another million dollars for affordable housing generally defined, not not not specifically defined in various categories. So on the so my staff and I have been looking. Let me start with with homelessness. We have been exploring, investigating, analyzing a variety of different sites in town. We've been in touch with with Kevin Noonan and Jerry Weiss talking about what are some of the the logical spots for that? As as Laura indicated a few minutes ago, when you look at some of the real estate prices in Amherst, it's a little bit, you know, the sticker shock is is hits you in the face very quickly. I know there's been a few properties on the market that we've looked at that are still in play. We probably have four or five sites we're looking at with regard to the potential for a permanent shelter. I did want to throw out there that as you all know, currently, Craig's Doors is using three sites, the University Motor Lodge, the Lutheran Church, and now the UU, at least for the remainder of the sheltering season. I won't go into detail, but, you know, I think it's public knowledge that the the UML has been used effectively by Craig's Doors. I give them kudos and great credit for creatively using the UML. That that model has been used across the state, i.e. that model of of hotels, motels across the state to help people help sheltering organizations and keep people safe through the pandemic. So we're definitely interested. The UML is, you know, has been talked about in public meetings and it's it's an intriguing site. So I will put that out there because it's been put out there before. It's not a state secret, but we're looking at a couple of other sites as well. We, you know, they're Craig's Doors. Again, kudos to them for for really combining the use of the UML and a congregate site or multiple sites now in the same year. So I think they're probably sheltering north of 50, 55 people at this point. So definitely, you know, there's there's no change in our commitment to utilizing that million dollars that has been set aside in ARPA funds to search for a permanent site for for a shelter. We're not calling it. It's not, you know, we don't know, you know, obviously we have a good partnership with Craig's Doors. We hope they will be our partner on sheltering for many years to come. But we're looking for a shelter site that will serve the town and whoever is the operator of that site for a long time to come. So that that searches underway. Um, it is only the first part of March and we realize that Greg's Doors does not have a permanent site. The Lutheran Church has been incredibly generous as has the UU and before that the First Baptist Church. So we realize that they have been moving around for the past couple of years and don't have a permanent site. So we realize the urgency of that of that effort. We do have the homelessness and re housing group. That group was started by town by Paul Bakerman and was initially staffed by Mary Beth Ogilevitz, who left town service back in the fall. And I've asked Nate Malloy to help me with the various things that are kind of on my plate, that being one of them to kind of restart that group. And our first meeting in a couple of months will be next Friday, the 18th. So I would encourage people to to to, you know, tune into that meeting and they are specifically focused on the homelessness piece. So maybe I stop there. And before we talk about affordable housing and other other other categories under the ARPA funds. You're optimistic about finding a permanent location for the shelter. I would say I'm persistent, John. You have to be, you know, real estate, you know. Again, you know, I'm following Laura Baker, who I have great respect for and Valley CDC. And I remember five, seven years ago, you know, Laura and her team talking about just mining the real estate opportunities and Amherst looking for sites and looking for sites. And lo and behold, after lots of work and persistence, they found 132 Northampton Road. And we were all very familiar. I won't, you know, go through that again. But it's not easy. None of these, you know, finding the real estate, finding the right zoning, the right setbacks, the right seller is challenging in any market, but the Amherst market is particularly challenging. So I am persistent and, you know, we've got great folks working on it like Nate and Rob Mora is helping us and Chris Breastrup and others. So we are, we're committed to it and we're persistent. We I'm confident we're going to find a site, but we're going to it's going to be a challenge no matter where we find that site in Amherst. Other questions around the shelter and the future for Dave? I will just put out there one other piece, which is. And I do this with a little trepidation, which is, you know. Is there a piece of property? Is there a building that is that is, you know, suitable for a congregate shelter versus is there a site where a congregate shelter could be constructed? And those two, those two options are different. There's, you know, the same goal, but, you know, I look back some years ago, I was not involved, but certainly when the Survival Center was many of you probably remember when the Survival Center was in the North Amherst school in the basement of the North Amherst school and folks there, their board of directors and their executive director rolled up their sleeves and said, we need to do better for the Amherst community and for the region. And they formed committees and Lynn Grissmere, who happens to be the president of the town council now was part of that effort, as well as dozens of other people. And they said, you know what, this is important for Amherst. We need to do better. And lo and behold, they found a site. They did a capital campaign and, you know, thousands of people use the Survival Center every year. So I'm just putting it out there that it may not be, you know, finding a building that is move in ready and turn key. And, you know, here are the keys and and let's go. It may take a bigger effort and I'm just putting that out there. OK, so should we move on to other uses of ARPA funds related to housing? And I don't know whether you want to talk about affordable rental housing or home ownership, whichever one you want to choose first. Yeah, so let's start with that, John. I know I'm just glancing at your agenda. I know Strong Street is on there. And John and I chatted briefly a couple of hours ago. And, you know, I think staff and I, you know, Nate and I, you know, chatting in the office with other staff in the planning department, we are very much in favor of, you know, exploring the opportunity for home ownership, you know, opportunities in Amherst. So we haven't really said of the million dollars. We we we have your memo and we have your, you know, your your, you know, the memo which outlines, you know, priorities as the trust sees them and we don't disagree with those, you know, we agree with with those. I wish there was more than a million dollars in that in that fund, because as we know, a million dollars when it comes to real estate of whatever kind doesn't go that far in Amherst and other parts of Massachusetts. So we're supportive of going for opportunities for home ownership. And again, Strong, Strong Street seems to be a good property to explore for that purpose. The town owns it. There's some complexity. I know Nate's probably going to update you if he hasn't already on some of the due diligence there. So we think Strong Street that that parcel or those parcels could could be the, you know, an option for us and we want to explore those. We're also interested in additional affordable rental units. So we have a couple of properties that we're looking at for those as well. Knowing full well that for either one of those, we're going to have to come back to CPA in the fall. Again, that million dollars cut up, you know, going all in one direction or two is not going to get us across the finish line. So we're going to have to come back to CPA. And I told John earlier that, you know, I think an annual ask of CPA in the half a million to a million dollar range is probably going to become the norm if we really want to make a dent in some of the things we're talking about here and address some of the comprehensive housing policy goals of the town council. So I think it's kind of all speed ahead on Strong Street and then continue to explore some other options that I'd be happy to go into more detail with you at your next meeting in executive session, but I can't really talk about specific properties right now. I will say without, you know, without getting too far off your agenda, you know, Hickory Ridge, I know I've been talking about it and other people have been talking about it for many years, but we are very close to the finish line on Hickory Ridge. Once we own Hickory Ridge, our master plan process will kick into high gear and we'll begin to look at all the interests and ideas that people have put forth for Hickory Ridge. And one of those is affordable housing. And again, we're obviously open to that. There are, you know, six plus or minus acres on the frontage there that can serve some different uses. So home ownership, affordable rental in all categories, absolutely. I think, again, without getting too far off your agenda, I think we'll have an announcement about, and I don't think we can go into detail, we'll have an announcement about East Street School and Belchartown Road parcels very soon. So I'm excited about that too. And we're gonna need funds for that as well, because I think at all likelihood, the chosen developer may come back to the town and say, we need some additional local funds to make that happen. Yeah, both developers, part of their proposals ask for at least a million dollars in CPA funding. And I don't think I'm giving any trade secrets since it was in both proposals. So we're gonna definitely be seeing that ahead of us. So the one thing I would say, John, and again, I'm not an expert on energy conservation. Stephanie Ciccarello certainly, you know, can speak to that more than I can. And, you know, I will tell you, my leaning is toward building new units, not to say making units that exist more affordable through energy conservation is not a high priority. I think it is for the town, but I guess I lean toward using ARPA funds and CPA dollars toward getting us new units, either affordable rental units or affordable home ownership units. Again, my word is not the last word on that. I'm just telling you my professional, I guess, bias a little bit. So. Take questions. Other questions for Dave? Well, I'm glad to hear that Hickory Ridge is close to closing. Also glad to hear that we should expect a formal announcement on Belcher Town Road, East Street School site that is a selection of a developer within probably possibly tomorrow, maybe early next week. So that will be closed out. I know when you and I talked, Dave, you were saying that, you know, if we're gonna be able to do something on Strong Street or possibly elsewhere, you would be interested in looking to the trust to develop an RFP as we did for East Street Belcher Town Road. And I think that's something that we'd certainly like to have a hand in because we have priorities that in general sit with the towns, but that get reflected in the RFP. So we definitely wanna continue to have that as part of our role. For home ownership, I know that, well, Valley Community Development is not ready to ask for funds yet for their proposed project at an undisclosed location in Amherst, but I'm assuming not this year, but maybe next year, we'll hear something from Laura on that with respect to the Strong Street property. I know that even before anything else happens on that property, there needs to be a commitment to bring in a road and utilities to service the site so that houses or duplexes or whatever it is that gets built there will have both of those kinds of access, that is road access and utilities. And that's something that in past has been funded by CDBG. It also is something that could be funded by ARPA. And again, it's in the context of seeing that as a home ownership development. I know that the other potential home ownership opportunities from the Amherst Community Land Trust and the program that Valley Community Development is currently running with CPA funds could use a different additional funds to help support home ownership in other places in town. So where do those get into the town hall discussions about how to spend ARPA funds? That's a good question, John. That's why I asked Dave. I mean, I don't have an easy answer for that. I think, I guess my cautionary note is that a million dollars sounds like a lot of money but it really when you're talking about real estate, when you're talking about development costs, it's really not. So one of my worries is that we dilute this million dollar pot so much that we don't get tangible results that we want. So, or that it's so diluted that, you know it's just not helping us move forward. So, you know, I think we need a little more time to investigate some of these possible acquisitions around town before we make some of those decisions. Again, my leaning is toward projects or initiatives that create more units in town. But again, I'm not the final say, I think ultimately Paul Bachman, you know directs me and directs Nate and the rest of the staff. Getting back to East Street, or excuse me, strong treat for a minute. I don't know if Nate wanted to comment at all. You know, I know that he's working on some of the due diligence there. I don't know, Nate, if you can say anything about road costs or road development or, you know, whether that would potentially be rolled into a project there. It's a little hard. Well, not hard, but yeah, go ahead. Sure. Yeah, strong street, you know I've reached out to the state and to, you know, have a consultant on board and they haven't provided too much new information. We had said at the previous meeting, you know it was looking, it's looking really like maybe 12 to 16 units, you know possibly duplexes, ownership units. I've been speaking with Rob Mora. There may be a way to develop it without a full subdivision road. It's a little tricky to try to save costs. I think at the last meeting we also saw that most of the site was national heritage, rare and endangered species. And so we have to, we have a concept plan that we're trying to refine and get back to them. And they said they'd work with the town to determine if there could be impact in that area. And so, I mean, that's kind of the first step just because so much of the site was mapped as rare and endangered species. And it wasn't, I think there's, they've actually been on site and surveyed it. So it's not as if it's a hypothetical. Sometimes, you know, it's based on certain parameters. It really is something on the site there. So yeah, I mean, I think that in the next, you know, a few months we'll have more information. We can decide, you know, how to move that forward as a town project. Is it something that the town bears the cost of, you know, horizontal infrastructure? Like at Olympia Oaks, you know we put block grant money and other money into roadways and site development and then vertical construction was with a developer. So I think that, you know, that it, you know I think it could be a possibility. It's not 25 units, you know, as we were hoping but I think it can be some home ownership units. It's also just adjacent to the qualified census tract that Laura had mentioned. So most of North Amherst is this qualified census tract. The border is a strong street and so this used to be a year ago this was part of a qualified census tract. And then with new census numbers, it's as of 2022, it's not but we could petition funding programs and say, well, we're just across the street. And so, you know, there has to be a certain number of units that make it work there but we're still trying to see how we could kind of bundle this as a package and get home ownership units there at strong street, you know could our money be used there? Maybe we haven't even discussed that. We're still trying to figure out what's a good kind of development concept for that. One other thing I was gonna say about ARPA money there is 150,000 that was budgeted for resident support. And so that's something that's getting close to being ready. So, you know, funding for rental or mortgage arrears and for utility support. So, you know, Sean, myself and other staff are figuring out how to, you know, program that money and who could help administer it for the town. So there's 150,000 for, you know, support there which is in addition to the million dollars, you know, the other pots of money for housing or homelessness. So there's 150,000 that will be made shortly that can be available to residents. I think the other thing to keep in mind is that, you know, Nate and myself and my staff are in constant discussions with a variety of different kind of players in the real estate market and Amherst and there certainly is interest in some of our village centers from the private sector. So we're constantly having conversations with developers who might wanna, you know, look creatively at redeveloping some of our sites. You know, we certainly saw the North Square project up on Coles Road and Sunderland Road and Route 63 come in, you know, six or seven years ago with 130 units and 26 of those affordable. And that took about a $2.7 million TIF to get that project, you know, to the finish line. And so I think, you know, projects like that and that might look for a TIF or might look for CPA funds for additional affordable units are possible as well. I honestly could see in the next year or two having kind of a significant number of CPA projects coming to the committee to the CPA see, you know, really competing for affordable housing funding. I think, you know, it's great to have partners like Valley CDC. We're gonna have the East Street School and the developer for the East Street School and the Elstown Road site. And I'm pretty confident there's gonna be others. So I think it's gonna be challenging to kind of find local, state and federal funding to make some of these projects happen. I mean, it's a good thing to have. It's a good problem to have, right? We're gonna have some very creative projects coming our way and we need to roll up our sleeves and figure out how to provide as much funding as we can at the local level so that they can, you know, get that match that we all count on at the state level with federal or state dollars. So, but I could see the next two or three years being very competitive for CPA funding in the affordable housing category. We haven't honestly, because most of the other, many of the other projects come through the planning department, you probably have noticed that we have not, you know, Hickory Ridge was voted on a couple of years ago but we have not brought forth a significant open space project in the last year or two. So I think a lot of our work on open space has been done over the past 40 or 50 years. There may still be a parcel or two that we wanna pick up but that allows for more room for other projects in other categories. So not to say we're done, there's some other farmland we'd like to protect but until those landowners are ready to do it, it's a voluntary program, you know, we won't have large open space projects coming through. So we've talked a lot. I'm curious if there are questions or comments or additional direction the committee would like to give Nate and myself input feedback? This is maybe, I'm not sure I exactly understood about the $150,000 that can be, I mean, that seems like not very much month. If a million dollars isn't much, then what $150,000? So I'm not sure I quite understood what that might possibly be good for and I'd love to know more. So that was part of the original spending plan for ARPA was emergency assistance funds. So it's up to 3,000 for a resident if they are in rental arrears or if they need help with utilities. So there's some money at the town's programming for that, some ARPA money. So we had been using COVID and CARES money and now some ARPA money to help with that. So the idea is that it could help anywhere from 30 to 50 households with, right, I mean, it's short-term expenses, right? It's not creating new units, but it's something that if someone is, you know, facing eviction or shut off or something that we have some money that could be of assistance. So we're seeing more requests for that recently. And so it's something that, you know, had been a part of the initial budget of ARPA money and it's something that now we're trying to use just because we're hearing that it's needed. So it's kind of more for helping people who are already in homes stay there in one way or another, short-term. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's different than like Dave said, the million that we have to create units or to address homelessness or affordable housing per se, but it's, you know, it does help. So right, it could keep someone from becoming evicted. You know, we're also trying to have that, say for instance, family outreach or other social services in town work with people who are receiving this assistance and work with landlords to just keep people housed. So when we did the rental program for the trust, we asked landlords if they would be willing to for, you know, forgive rent or get into a payment plan or, you know, slow the eviction process. So it's something, you know, it's just something we can offer to try to help, you know, no guarantees, but part of the goal of the program is to prevent evictions and utility shut off. So that's... I just like, we put a lot of work into making a whole system and ways to apply. And so how would anybody even know about this or how does it actually get to be used since it seems I don't get the connection between the money and what connects them? Luckily the trust program was a good model for this ARPA money. And so like I said, it's not finalized yet. It's something that we're trying to put together, but, you know, it'll be advertised. It'll go up through different media channels and, you know, there's ways just to let all the, you know, agencies know it's available through the school. So I think that once it's available and up and running, I think the word will spread pretty quickly. I would just add, it's a great question. I would add that we're doing kind of an analogous program for local businesses and restaurants. And again, trying to help them, even though, you know, we're hoping that we're moving through the pandemic, restaurants and local businesses are still struggling. So, you know, we're looking at some modest amount of the ARPA funds to go toward helping local businesses either stay afloat or become more nimble and more creative about how they reach their customer base. Because we suspect that there's another wave of closures coming with restaurants and or businesses. So we're trying to bolster them to see if they can get through to the other side. Just to come back to Carol's question on the housing side, do you anticipate having or contracting with a group like Community Action to administer that $150,000, Nate? Or do you think the town would administer it correctly? I think we're going to have, maybe have some agency administer it, but I think just to reduce overhead costs, you know, staff will be doing some of it too, just to, you know, have more money go directly to beneficiary. So we have an ARPA manager on staff and then myself would help, you know, process payments and get things moving just so we, you know, but I think, you know, some agencies might be helping or at least help get the word out or help receive applications and determine eligibility. Okay, thanks. Any other questions for Dave? Dave, I appreciate you're joining us this evening. I think rather than coming next month, it might make more sense to wait at least a couple of months before the things that you have in mind are moved along a little bit further and then to plan for at least a part of that to be an executive session. Yeah, I'd love to come back. May, I think would be, two months would be a really good time, I think. And if need be, we could go into executive session to cover some of the other updates. And again, I'll just, I'll leave you with, I think be prepared for some exciting news on East Street School and Belcher Town Road. Those two sites will be making some announcements there. And then you'll also be hearing about Hickory Ridge very, very, very soon. So happy to come back and talk with you about all of those, so. Great, thanks again for coming, Dave. Thank you. Hopefully you won't have to have back-to-back meetings on the same night in May. That's what we do, it's all, it's good, good night all. Good night, thank you. Okay, now we've touched on what would be our next agenda item which was Strong Street. Nate, do you wanna add anything to what you've said already? No, I was just gonna just go back to the executive session. So, to go into executive session, the trust did it before a while ago but we have to put it on the agenda. We have to state a reason. There's a few, I think there's up to 10 reasons for through mass general law that we can go into executive session. So we have to state that on the agenda and then if it's through Zoom, we'd have a separate Zoom meeting just for the trust members. So we'd have a public meeting that the public can attend and then we'd have a separate Zoom just for the trust and Dave and whoever's presenting. We do take minutes during that and they become public when it's no longer needed to be an executive session. So we couldn't just jump into it tonight. Dave said he would be willing but we have to follow the right process. So for Strong Street, I don't have too much. I do think Rob Moore has been a great resource and he's optimistic we can make something work. He said even if we have to staff us to hire some engineers and others and we would be kind of the developer at first. So we might even try to design it, engineer it and permit it and then get it kind of developer ready and then put it out to bid that way. So we're still entertaining what's the most efficient route but it is a, there are a few legal questions we have to look into because it was, I mean it is a subdivision and there are lots that were purchased on this paper street. So we saw the plans and so if this does move forward we're gonna have to look into a few of those things and possibly talk to the owners of those properties just because there are lots that are essentially floating out there but legally there's a street there on paper. So I think it's interesting. I wouldn't say pessimistic but it is definitely a challenging site and I think we found a way to make a grading work. But it won't be as big of a development as we thought. Questions for Nate? Okay, well, I guess we'll get regular updates. I do appreciate the work that you and Rob are doing to move this along. It turns out certainly it's not as simple as I had hoped it would be, it looked like it was eight to 10 acres that we're gonna be available. I know, I mean the subdivision plan had drainage going right into wetlands. So even when it was permanent as a subdivision they showed drainage going into a wetland. And so I'm not sure exactly how I think for subdivision purposes, they can do the subdivision is just road layout and lots but if that were actually to be permitted to be built it may have been that four or five of those lots were never gonna be built anyways because of the way they were proposing to do drainage. So on paper it looks good but once you start getting into those details. Okay, the next item that I had on the agenda was the age and dementia friendly survey. And so I thought I would update people on that. Basically we did a first wave of mailed surveys and we sent out 500 surveys. And I think I'm not quite sure of the exact number but I think the response to that first 500 is gonna be in the nature of 125, 130 which is a remarkable response for a mailed survey. So we're talking about a return rate that could be greater than 25%. I am hoping to do a second mailing. And the reason I wanna do that is because I think we could get another 100 returns. You think, well, everybody who did it the first time they're done and the people who didn't do it, well, there's no point in re-contacting them but actually if you look at the literature on mailed surveys there's absolutely a reason to re-contact them. You definitely get a significant return the second time around. And again, if you look at the literature there are ways to go back a third time, fourth time, fifth time and sixth time. So you can literally get it up to 75 or 80%. I don't plan to do that. I'd just like to do the second wave. If we got another 100 surveys that means we'd be in the neighborhood of 40, maybe 45% which would make me quite happy. I think that's a very good return rate and it will give us a representative sample, reasonably representative sample of households in Amherst. Now, for better or worse, I should say that most of those households responding are gonna be people who are white and older adults because 90% of the population of Amherst over the age of 55 is Caucasian. There aren't a huge number of minority residents over the age of 55 in Amherst. If you see minority figures or percentages for Amherst, they're really boosted by the presence of the university. So the question is how do we increase the numbers of persons of color as responding to the survey? And Sid and I are working on a strategy that I hope will work. Basically, we're each reaching out to 10, no, five or so people. And what? That's it, five to eight people. We each reaching out. Yeah. And we're asking the people we reach out to contact five people or potentially more to and ask them to complete the survey. So with any luck, we'll get at least 50 to 100 additional surveys from persons of color, which would mean that the representation of those groups, while not random, would at least be better than it would be if we didn't do that kind of outreach. There will be other outreach efforts also that may bring in additional people from communities of color. For example, Haley Bolton, who's the new aging director in Amherst, will be asking Donna Hancock, who runs the Meals on Wheels program that's located at the Bang Center to ask people who are in her portfolio to respond. And I don't know how many persons of color that is, but I do know we're talking about a low income population. So it's certainly worth it to be doing that because we're not necessarily getting low income people through the mailed survey. So there are various things that we're gonna do to try to improve the quality of the survey from the point of view of representation of persons of color, but also to assure that we have a reasonably representative sample of the community as a whole. And like I said, I'm really encouraged by the initial return rate from the first mailed survey. And I am pushing Town Hall to do that second wave. And really the people who are doing the work are mostly myself and other volunteers. There's some work certainly required by Marine Pollock, but with the exception of Marine, it doesn't depend very much on Town staff. And her contributions are mostly creating labels, printing surveys, and printing envelopes where necessary that have posted on them. So the surveys all get out. In the first survey, I should say, we included both English language and Spanish language surveys in the envelope. Of the 100 plus surveys we've gotten back, it was only one Spanish language survey completed. So I am pushing the Town on not using that as a strategy because we save on printing and postage costs and it doesn't really yield inclusive representation, even though on the surface it looks like it might. So there's no point in doing something that doesn't work even if it looks good. At least that's my point of view. We'll see if it's shared. Any other, any questions or comments about that survey? Carol? Two questions. One is when you do this, that's what you're calling a second round. Is that actually to the same 500 people or is that a different bunch of people? It's the same 500 people less those persons whom we know return. Yes, some people we don't know because we had return addresses on the envelopes that came back and a few people tore off the return address possibly to preserve their confidentiality. I mean, as it is, we opened the envelopes and kept the surveys and the envelopes separate. So we don't know the identity of people who filled it out, except where they put their own names on the survey they returned. John, oops, go ahead. I'm sorry, you had two questions. I'll ask the question later. My other question was just how, what will be the relationship between these mailed surveys and the surveys that happened in other ways like that electron, I filled one out online, for instance, that came from Amherst neighbors. So was there any connection between these or are these two just totally separate activities? Well, the survey is the same. Same survey, right. It's the same survey. So then the question is, what are the differences between surveys that we got back? I mean, if we got surveys back, which we will of people of different ages, you'd ask, well, what is the 55 to 64 group look like versus the 65 to 74 or all of the groups? So the answer to your question is, Carol, what is the group that responded to the mailed surveys look like versus people who we got from any other source? And one of the things that I'm sure you did is when you filled out your survey, you indicated that your source was Amherst neighbors. So we can compare surveys that came through Amherst neighbors versus Craig's place. We're hoping to get a sample there versus people in Meals on Wheels program versus, versus, versus. And once we look at those differences, then we can decide how best to combine data across all of the sources. Okay, thank you. My question was a little similar. So I was one of those random ones, right? So I got it in a mail, but it was easier for me to do it online. So I did it online, I submitted it today. So there's going to be a second round. So considerably I could get another one in the mail, correct? Possibly, if I didn't know that you just announced that you sent it, yes, that was even more probable, depending upon whether you kept the return mail address on the envelope. Right now, the envelopes are trickling in. We got a lot right at the beginning. You know, like we go to the postal box every couple of days and there'd be 30 envelopes put in there. When I go to the postal box, there's three. So they're trickling in. And essentially what we expect to do is take the envelopes and use that as the basis for eliminating all the labels that we used in the first round and just asking, you know, the remaining 350 to 400 people, whatever it is who didn't respond the first time to respond on the second wave. Okay. Great, thanks. Thanks. Any other comments or questions? I mean, I guess Sid, sorry, quickly Sid to your point. I mean, I wonder if people film out online if they would just, if it's a self-addressed envelope, right, would they say completed it online? I mean, I guess, John, that's one thing. I'm thinking about what, you know, the reason why you're having the different categories and tabulating the data, if they filled it out as a random survey or a, you know, online by Amherst neighbors, to me, when you just aggregate it all and it's just all, you know, and you still could have that as a part of the data, but I think it's, you know, it's, you know, anyone who's whatever, you know, 55 and older, whatever the target audience is, it seems strange to me that, for instance, like Sid, you know, or people who get a paper survey in the mail, they might say, well, I'm just gonna do it online. So you might have 30 people who completed it online, but actually received the mail survey, but you'll never know. And so I'm sure it's, you know, it's necessary to say, well, these, you know, 10 people submitted it by Amherst neighbors and these 10 people did it through Craig's Doors and these 10 people did it through Meals on Wheels. Theoretically, I should know if Sid did it online, then when it came to responding to the question about where he received the survey, he would have said, oh, I got it in the mail. Because that's one of the options for where you received the survey. So if people do that consistently, then we would know. Then the other question that you raised, well, what's the difference if I get the data from one place versus another place? Well, let's say we get data in the random sample back from ultimately 200 people. Who do they represent? Well, I would argue that they would represent the 5,000 people over the age of 60, 55 who live in Amherst. And so what I want to be able to do is say, those results that came from the random sample can be generalized to that whole population over the age of 55 in Amherst. Which I can't do with the so-called convenience samples. That is the data that is collected in another way. So that's the reason for having a random sample in the first place. It's not just a way of getting in surveys, but it's also a way of trying to understand what the need might be or the interest might be or preferences would be for the entire sample of 5,000 whatever plus older adults who live in Amherst. And that's very important. If we want, for example, to justify having an older adult development at Hickory Ridge, well, what's the need? And so we can do that by generalizing, by generalizing ideally from the random sample that we have. That's why that piece of it is important. Not that the other piece isn't important because from the sample, from that sample, we don't know enough about certain other people, necessarily low income people, persons of color, et cetera. So that other data supplements that so that we can better understand the need. Did I answer your comments? Yeah, I mean, I haven't talked to Marina how PVPC normally does it, like how many, what's the typical response rate or how do they outreach? But I was hoping that there'd be a large enough response outside the random sample too that is meaningful. Oh, I think there will be. Someone said there were 200 surveys that came in through Amherst neighbors. So that's very significant. PVPC's experience is that that would be a lot of surveys from any one community. So I think between the various sources in Amherst, we're gonna seed five to 600 surveys. And the number could even grow to be larger, given other ways I want to publicize it. So we're gonna do a lot better than the other communities that PVPC has sampled. And in general, all of their data have been convenience survey data. They've collected meetings they held or in other ways and just combined it. And I want to try to do something a little bit more elegant, the liability of the training that I've had. It will be curious to see how different what you get from a random sample is from what you get from some of these other, more focused samples. It's just curious to me to see the difference. Well, hopefully we'll have an answer to that, Carol. I would say, but not for a few months. Okay. What else did I have? Yeah, East Street, Belcher Town Road. We may know tomorrow or early next week. According to my conversation with Dave, Paul Backelman wanted to talk to the executive directors or presidents of both way finders and home city housing before there was a public announcement. So Paul needs to make those calls and then he'll be ready to make an official announcement. I did send a note about our priorities for the town comprehensive housing policy. You all saw it. I got thank you notes from both Lynn Grissomer and from married manager, Hanneke. And Dave, who also said that, yeah, that the town planning staff is looking at what to make priorities. And so I assume that was also appreciated, at least Nate promised us that it would be at our last meeting, I think. So that's all in the mill. And exactly what comes out, I can't tell you. But at least we've put our or in so to speak, which I think is good. Yeah, the CRC's discussed it twice, the comprehensive housing policy and how to prioritize. There's a number of strategies and goals and objectives. And so they're thinking about creating a table and trying to maybe do some additional outreach. But we have some ideas in terms of planning staff we can do zoning changes, regulations and certain things. The CRC can recommend policy level changes. And so there's probably a number of things that'll be prioritized for the next year. As Dave mentioned, I think funding becomes critical depending on what project. So for instance, the project Laura mentioned, the home equity program, it's an equity builder program, so they only want a 10 to 15 year deed restriction. And that could be something that's challenging for CPA or CDBG, it's allowable, but something that's not typically done. And so if this project were to move forward, how much support will it get in votes for funding? If it's not your typical 50 or 100 year deed restriction, and so I think it'll put, see how the policy works. I like the idea of it, right? We've talked about it, that it's really difficult to gain equity if you have a deed restriction and it caps your resale price. So we have someone who's been a homeowner for 10 years or longer and Amherst may be 12, and they're looking to sell and they actually can't, they're not going to get much equity. It allows someone, else to buy it at an affordable rate, but they've been a homeowner for 12 years and they really aren't getting much more than they paid for 12 years ago. And so I think this program is a really unique opportunity, but it will put, it'll say, what is the town's role in terms of a project like that? Is it funding? Is it policy? Is it zoning? So I think there's a few things that we're looking at how to, what to move forward in the next year. So yes, John, it was appreciated. You know, we're, you know, I think the inclusionary zoning was great to get past. And so there's a few other thing pieces and we'll see what, you know, what can come about. Yeah. Just to follow up on something else you said. It was like two or three years ago, the community preservation act community said to valley community development. Regarding their efforts to establish a home ownership program. That they had to put a, is to keep the funding available or keep the, the status forever, essentially. And, you know, at the time, I didn't think much about it. But now that we're much more conscious of the importance of home ownership and wealth development, it probably is time to ask the community preservation act to change that policy. Right. So for instance, right? The new comprehensive housing policy, you know, home ownership is a, is an important goal there. So. Right. Maybe that means CPA committee has to change its. You know, its practice as well. So I think those are the things that we're looking at. You know, how do we build on the policy? No, I agree. I mean, they really wanted they, I think valley even agreed to a 15 year increase in their deed restriction for first time home buyers. Which, you know, if you're, if you're at a 50 year or 45 year deed restriction, I mean, that's. More than as most homeowners are not going to. Right. Take advantage of that. Okay. So that's something we might propose to change. Carol. Well, at least there are definitely situations in which what happens by having the long term deed restriction is that the appreciation ends up to get shared. Between who gets to live there next and who gets to live there. And then the other thing that we're looking at is the value goes up to get shared between who gets to live there next and the people who go away. Because it's not like you can't, you just not like you don't get none of it. If the, if the value goes up. So I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't think it's quite that simple. I understand. Of, of how, of how it works with community land trusts. I know there's places in Burlington and the Burlington community land trusts where people. There was a deed restriction. So I don't, I don't, I don't know. The land belong to the, to the land trust and the homeowner got enough money to go and buy something else that didn't have to be. Restricted like that when they left and then somebody else got a chance to start out there and do the same thing. So I don't, I'm not convinced. I guess that's all. I don't think it has to work so restrictively. It's how you're describing it. So I don't, I don't think it has to work. So there's a, there's a certain affordable unit that's on the subsidized housing inventory through DHCD. Their resale restrictions and other things really do limit it. So, you know, you'll be a homeowner. You'll have those responsibilities in terms of. Mortgage property maintenance, heating costs, everything. And then after 30 years, if you go to sell. of someone without a restriction would have. And so you're almost like a renter. Even though you're on your home, you know, you don't have that wealth or that, you know, that asset to really to pass on or to do something with. So you can pass it on. Well, not really. So you can never cash it out. You can never take advantage of it. So, you know, so for instance, like, you know, my house is indeed restricted. So if I needed to sell it and do something with it, when I'm older, I can. But if someone is an affordable unit, they can't do it that same way. So I, you know, I, I see what Carol's saying, but I also think that the way the deed restrictions are written are, they're, the idea is that somewhere else where I can get into the unit. But in terms of the person trying to take, you know, have some, some equity out of it, it's very minimal. It sounds like what you're saying is in order for the person to make a profit on it. Yeah. Or to get, to get anything from it. But why should you, why should you profit on it? You should, you should have a house to live in that's affordable. And then somebody else should be able to live in that house. But everyone else is not. You shouldn't be able, you shouldn't be making a profit on your house. That shouldn't be the reason that you have a house. The reason you have a house is to live in. Well, I think 90% of America thinks it's to make a profit off of. So I know they're wrong. They're wrong. Well, I'm not disagreeing with you, but that's, that's, that's the way it works. Right. So that's how, that's how people gain wealth. But, but you can, but you don't have to gain all of the wealth at the expense of the community. Right. You get, you get, you get a reasonable amount of wealth. You, you, you are buying into that house and building some equity in it. And you get that equity out and then you can go somewhere else. That's Carol was saying. It's the problem, the reason the houses are, are too expensive because everyone is trying to flip them. And it's, you know, if we, if we can, if we can keep all the houses down, that's better for everyone. Well, I think when we start to look at a possible change in policy, we need to figure out a way to allow people to get a reasonable amount of equity out of a house that they got assisted in purchasing. But also for that, the end result of that to be that somebody else can't purchase it. We don't want that outcome either. So we figure out how to do both. Yeah. I think I think it's, I don't think it's impossible. I think it's possible. Okay. I don't have anything on legislative advocacy. I did look briefly at a new Chapa report earlier this afternoon, but there didn't seem to be anything particularly exciting in it. I think the progress continues to be made on the transfer fee legislation, but apparently it's being strongly opposed by real estate interests in Boston and elsewhere. So the fate of that bill is uncertain. I know that the city of Boston itself has proposed its own transfer fee legislation, which is a little bit different than what the statewide group has proposed. One of the things that I was told was in the Boston proposal was an element that had to do with tax relief. Maybe for older persons who own their houses or, but I never actually found out what that provision was. It did sound interesting. And I know that's an issue for people in Amherst. So it maybe, if that becomes part of a statewide legislation, assuming there is statewide legislation, that would be of interest to us as well. John, is it the right to counsel and the sealed background checks? Aren't those moving forward as well? I think that they are, Nate. Yeah. That wasn't in the most recent Chapa report, but I don't think those are as high a priority for Chapa as they are. For example, for the Western Mass group to end homelessness. But yes, those are moving forward. I think you're correct. Okay. I have one other item. The terms of two trust members are expiring in June. One of those people is Allegra. And I have recommended to the town manager that he asked town council to reappoint her. And she's aware of that and has a brief assignment in order to be sure that that moves forward. The other person whose term expires in June is me. And I do not anticipate being reappointed. I have been on the housing trust for six years for probably at least half of that. I've been the chair. And then prior to that, I was on the town housing and sheltering committee for probably five or six years. I lost count. So I've been doing this for a while. And for anybody who wants to celebrate at the end of the month, I will have my 78th birthday. So I think I'm ready to turn this over to a younger person. And I think anybody who's now on screen is younger than I am. Not me, but okay. Not you, Carol? Oh, really? I'll be 79 in May. Oh, wow. Well, you have to get your 15 years of service than Carol before. I know. I don't have any years of service though. So it doesn't matter. So there'll undoubtedly be somebody new appointed in June or July or maybe August. But that'll be the only open seat that is mine. But the obvious implication is that we have to decide who the next chair of the housing trust would be. Which we can do what we want. So for example, if you all want, we could elect a co-chair at the next meeting and then that person would be ready to take over in June or July. So if somebody is ready to announce that they are a candidate for the chair or for co-chairmanship, that could be done at our next meeting. And then we could move forward to make sure that we have a smooth path for changeover. Any questions or comments? We don't have to make a decision now. And typically every board and committee, even if we're not electing a new chair every year, just reaffirms those appointments. So in July, August, September, there will need to be a vote of chair or could be vice chairs. But some structure will need to happen. I think it's also in the bylaw that the trust has a leadership position, whether it's chair, vice chair, and maybe, I don't know if we should have a treasurer or something else. Whatever it is so far, it's been more honored in the breach than the observance. I would just say that those are some really big shoes to fill. I don't know. I can't imagine. I just, I can't even imagine you not being here. So that's all. Well, thank you, Carol. I've begun to imagine it, I would say. Clearly. And you certainly deserve to. I mean, you know, hey, I get it, I get it. But from this side of the thing, it's like, wow. I appreciate that. Thank you. I want to echo that. And I think, you know, what's also hard is watching you, you fully commit to above and beyond. You're so involved in all the different aspects of, you know, from homelessness to really housing people in terms of home ownership and then also a climate, you know, change in efficiency. I mean, it's just, it's just amazing what you're doing. And also listening to you say that you're busier than when you were working. That's the hardest part. Some of us are still working. I'm not sure that's quite true. I'm sure most, if not all of you are aware of Paul Farmer, who passed away in the last couple of weeks. And I think it was a piece by Tracy Kitter that I read in the New York Times. He wrote a wonderful biography of Paul Farmer called Mountains Beyond Mountains, which I would strongly recommend. One of the things Paul Farmer apparently would say when he went to bed at night is, how are we possibly going to keep all the promises we made? But then when you woke up the next morning, he'd get out of bed and say, we haven't promised enough yet. There's more that we should be doing. And so I have never been a Paul Farmer. He's one of the two people I know who whose work and achievements are just so stunning that you kind of are forced to sometimes say, well, you know, what have I done with my life? And Paul Farmer is one and Brian Stevenson is the other. People know Brian Stevenson. Anyway, so somebody else can go to sleep at night worried about how we're going to keep all the commitments we've made, but then work up the next morning and say, hey, there's more really, we really should be doing. Okay, I think we're just past nine o'clock. So I will move to adjourn. And there's still some public attending. I don't know if we have any public comment. I assume somebody would have put up their hand if they had one or had something they wanted to say. I should have said that I invite that earlier in the meeting, but and there was a chat during our discussion, Rob and Carol that said, you know, said, perhaps there's a formula that keeps house houses affordable for the next buyer, but is combined with a separate fund that provides some percentage of equity for the seller. So yeah, I think there's ways to, you know, like we were discussing, I think there's ways to make it happen. You know, I do think that it will be a change from what we what are typical practices, right. So, you know, some of the, in terms of home ownership and deed restrictions. So, you know, they were just offering a suggestion. So I think there's probably a way to make it work. Okay, I'll just ask for a quick voice vote. All those in favor of adjourning. Hi. Hi. Are there any nos? Then I think we are adjourned until April 14. I think it is. Hey, thanks everyone. Mom, we'll have two of these people. Thank you. Thank you all. Happy birthday, John. Not quite there yet, but getting close.