 as always you appreciate your feedback give us your thoughts as we start this conversation tonight on the bbi report remember it's all about understanding this report what is it that makes you tick when you hear the bbi the hashtag is the stand ke art ram aguko at y254 channel that is on twitter remember we are live on our website www.y254.co.ke give us your thoughts give us your tweets as we continue with this conversation we'll be sampling them up in at the telly end of this conversation now gentleman karebunisana and what makes me smile tonight is that you've carried the report and i think i'm the only one who carried two of them two you you carried two which are different ones there are only two question discussions in this country musabzi got bbi you are the event at bombas yes i was i was there you're also there yes let me start with you julius what is it that you know how was it there and from the event what do you make of the whole launch of the bbi just generally in your own perspective well the launch was an opportunity for kenyans to start discussing discussing something that they have because previously people had been talking about this bbi even without seeing it people had taken positions others rejecting others supporting without actually seeing what that's discussing so yesterday was an opportunity for us to pick it like now i have a copy so that when i am speaking to it i am speaking about something that i have read i have seen and from yesterday's bombas conference i can actually say it was good because this document is a good document it's a good document if you take time to read it what i would advise is that let us not jump into taking stands jump into taking positions jump into taking sides without looking at this document in details it's it's it's it's fairly wide it's fairly long the dp i remember saying yesterday that is a slow learner so i would actually say that we need time to read it then we can uh advisedly give opinions and uh have you finished reading the report i have substantially read the report so i can i can discuss it now uh-huh um what about yo kango how was the the launch in your own perspective yesterday first of all yesterday was not a launch the launch was done in kisi yesterday was to unveil what was launched to the public okay and that's why you could see the people who attended came out with that report i have read this document twice from page one to two hundred and four i've read it together with the accompaniments the annex one up to annex a up to annex i and therefore i can confidently say that this report was meant to achieve two important aspects of this country number one economy number two peace and that has been broken down into implementation matrix in matrix number one kenshin reforms there is a bill constitution of kenya 2010 2020 kenshin amendment of kenya 2020 there is the administrative action or administrative aspect of implementation that talks about for example i've seen an example of kbc being given there as um you know setting up uh you know what you call a 24 hour tv channel that will talk about our culture and values and also make them profitable the other aspect is policy one of the policies that impressed me is the policy on prompt payment so that our people as they do business with government whatever they can be paid earlier then the last one is legislative there quite a number of legislation that have been proposed and that's something that will be revisited but most importantly the constitution of kenya 2010 that we have today if you look at the 2064 articles in the question of kenya only 56 are going to be amended then the word economy has been mentioned 153 times that's how detailed i am in reading it on the report yes so i am confident but lastly i am confident and i'm a very happy party secret journal today that the issues that we presented during the validation 15 of them nine have been captured and just to give a very short summary devolution strengthening devolution we propose remember we were the first people to start the constitution amendment process kunguza musico one and now we are in two 35 percent at least the word development fund that we start measuring development from the word level you know so for me i am very confident that yesterday when the president said we are going to have a national conversation we do believe in the coming national conversation anything that the kenyan people feel should be added or what they feel that does not augure well then that is what we are calling a national conversion we are confident and fair enough to them this document will sort the two major issues that are being discussed and this is why we need to have this conversation right here especially on why 254 these are we need to have this conversation with you from home even as a youth remember the bbi report touches on so many different agenda absolutely and including the youth it touches on inclusivity touches on the judicial legislation and so and much more so mention that you give us your take in regards to this bbi report what is your understanding of the report let us condense it let us be able to understand the bbi report and i would like to start with the aspect of inclusivity still the jubilee party deputy secretary general kaleb kositani say this and i quote the bbi was hardly hardly made to create positions and that is what it did it was a premeditated initiative to create positions and that is a question is it a position making a gear document and how is it that you can be able to you know to to best understand this bbi if that is the aspect that honorable kositani is coming from jules well i totally do not agree with that that that position and like i already said there are people who are already taking positions on this document without reading it yesterday yesterday there was serious submissions that were made at obamas of kenya only to go back to the document to look at it in details to find that they were actually lies now i agree with my friend here he says although i didn't go into that detail that he has counted the number of articles that are going to be amended he says that 53 do you say 56 56 now do all the 56 articles talk about leadership the answer is no probably there is only one or two that talk about leadership that talk about representation and also the executive the executive so it is not true that bbi was hurried so as to create a position that that is sentiments of people who probably have not shared the document yeah there is this perception because of the creation of the prime minister's post the uh and other positions that are supposed supposedly or allegedly made for some specific people but of course as politicians would always want to sell to the public what they want the public to know or what they want the public to believe this is we are talking about a Kenyan public that today is quite enlightened i want to tell the Kenyan public to read this document themselves now this document does not talk about expanding the executive only expanding the executive has been brought as one of the solutions to the viruses that i mentioned earlier remember when you read this document you will see the the the committee talking about the challenges that Kenyans presented to them and then the proposed solutions that the same Kenyans gave to them now having read the thousands of pages of documents that they got from Kenyans these are the answers that they are now they are now proposing based on what Kenyans told them so if Kenyans told them that they want the executive to be expanded to answer some problem that also has been identified then so be it so bb bb is not just a document that was um you know drafted from any individual's mind it is from the minds of the Kenyans far from it bb should be read in context it's not a document that just comes from nowhere it should be read in context ok this is what you said i believe today uh the party gave its position there was a absolutely a press statement sent out absolutely uh you said this the bbi report rightly acknowledges generational tensions that have been fueled by feelings amongst us if being excluded left out and neglected in building our economy and in governance you have quoted me verbally verbally uh ram if you look at this report and i my colleague has uplift put it yesterday if you were keen even though there was very limited time and that's why i'm saying our role as citizens who love this country forgot about the party affiliations i not from jubiliam not from odm i am from a party patio lands but the reason why i agree with majority of the issues that have been presented in these reports is what i've just said this country has undergone a lot of tension every five years and even within the five years it has gone a lot of economic meltdown after political i mean after general election but this report together with the submissions that we did outlines a methodical way of solving the problems that are now ailing this country one of them is strengthening devolution i am passionate about it because where are the people of kenya the people of kenya are in the counties in the villages and in the smallest unit called the ward and therefore if this report proposes a five percent allocation in what we call a ward developer we will be guided by a statute then therefore it means that development will be affected but not only that aguko the report says that even that five percent of the 35 percent that is going to the county now going to the ward the ward development fund shall now be used to achieve the issues that we identify in article 43 economic and social rights this country the biggest problem is achievement of social economic rights and number one clean water and food number two health services number three security number four education if our people the 50 million of us cannot get that then there is a problem and therefore if you look at it politically some people are saying it is creating position in fact there is no position that is creating it has replaced positions that were there to make it effective i'll give an example today the report proposes to have a pm who is a member of parliament not a new creation do you know what it has done it has revealed majority leader the report proposes to have two npms who are still members of parliament the the majority leader deputy the report now proposes to create the position of opposition leader because after every election because it is contested we have people who have gone into this election and have gotten substantive votes and they are outside there they are not even in parliament but they are saying these government is doing one two three they cannot check it adequately because they are out and therefore the creation of positions is a fallacy what we should say it has established positions that affirm and strengthen what was there in terms of representation i am aware that even though we are talking about representation and the creation of positions in the executive they are also it has not taken position they are youths who claim that they also want to be you know involved in this position in the executive you know aguko before wakili comes in the positions that have been created and allow me to use the wording that i want kenyan to understand the positions that have been established and that's what the law says those positions have been established number one to ensure effectiveness in parliament number two to share power take power from the president and bring them to the parliament one of them the p.m. will be the leader of government business look at that how it is cascading down but the constitution of kenya also gives us a guideline in article 30 one 30 sub article two that the in establishing the national executive it shall reflect the regional diversity of the people of kenya do you know what that means it is solving the division and now making it inclusive means that cabinet now shall have the face of kenya now if youths say that they want or women say that they want then they are part of the regional diversity of the people of kenya they shall be included but the most important thing is that the establishment of those positions strengthens parliament because it brings now government into parliament and checking is efficient you understand how how how positive are you that this creation of um well it is just one among many solutions that creation of these positions including the prime minister's post and the leader who you know the this is a leader of opposition is going to promote inclusivity in the nation you know historically politics in kenya has been tribal based and in many cases we've always had two or three major tribal parties if any of the two or three major political parties win election nothing has always stopped them from forming government from members of their party and because i have said that they are they are they are tribal it means members of their party are also part of a particular tribal unit so if they are to pick members that form government from one particular political party which basically is one tribe it means government will be run by one tribe now my friend has said that the idea is to ensure that at least the top echelons of leadership the top five represent the face of kenya that means the government is restricted in the manner in which it forms itself the government is restricted by the constitution so that even if it is one party that wins election or one coalition of parties that wins election they have to ensure that if the president comes from this region of the country the deputy will come from the other region the prime minister from another region hold of which i would like to hold that thought let's take a look i'll take a listen at what the deputy president said yesterday the president from his side like for example here president uhuru kenyata i am here kimunya is the prime minister uh because he is the leader of majority we have jimi angweni who is a deputy as a deputy prime minister and maybe maoka maori as one of the deputies so what happens to the whole nasa brigade together with musalia and all these other people yeah that is what he wanted raya to hear and because he said he has not read the document he's a slow learner you remember he said it's actually because of him that i went and read this document page by page so so that i would understand if whatever he was saying are true but but but is whatever he's saying holding water it's not true what happens to the like the nasa leader what he's describing is the position as it is now if we were to have this kind of governance structure under the current constitution without amending it then whatever is describing is what will will happen meaning there is no there will be no inclusivity there will be no inclusivity if we are to create the position of prime minister and the two deputies and the head of state and this deputy under the current arrangement as it is but that is what the the the document is trying to propose to enlarge to ensure that it reflect the face of kenya of course kenya has how many how many communities over 40 five 43 yeah so we cannot have all the 40 at the same time but if you are able to have them regionally one from central another one from western from coast from rift valley that is what this document is trying to solve