 Welcome everyone. Hello and good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to wherever you're coming from. This is the Hyperledger Foundation Health Care Special Interest Group meeting. And we are here to discuss some of the updates and developments in the community. So before I get started here, my name is Ray Dogo. I'm the chair of the special interest group. Thank you all for joining again. And before we get into a list of updates I've noticed in the last couple weeks I would like for any of you to introduce yourselves if you haven't already done so to the group here. So I'll just open up the floor to anyone here by the way this is being recorded and will be published on YouTube as well. So I can start this is my first meeting so I definitely haven't introduced myself to nobody in the group. My name is Sid Haniff. I'm based in Brighton in the UK. I'm sort of, I've joined for a couple of reasons. I've been working with a group of others around developing a platform using you know verifiable credentials for healthcare and healthcare data. So this seems, you know, a good intersection between, you know, the Hyperledger VC type bits and healthcare. I was going to say I feel like an imposter but this time it's really imposter syndrome in that I'm not healthcare professional. I worked a very long time ago on healthcare apps. So the others in my group are the healthcare folks and I'm the technical person. I have worked in healthcare apps a while back. And I'm also sort of part of the trust over IP foundation as a contributing member there. Again, around the verifiable credentials side, one that so so that's a brief hopefully not too brief introduction, hopefully not too long as well. Yeah, yeah, happy to answer any other questions as you go. That's fantastic. Thank you, Sid, for doing that. We appreciate it. And it's interesting you work on verifiable credentials. That is an important component of many of the applications that including healthcare that we need to figure out I think because identity is still is still an issue online. Anybody else would like to share their brief introduce themselves to the group. Right, I'm going to share my screen here as well. So you can see the agenda for today. Can everybody see my screen with the hyperledger meeting. All right, awesome. So without any further ado, I'm going to go ahead and just present some of the upcoming events that are happening really quickly. So in August, we have the Stanford Science of Blockchain event that's coming up in September 12 to the 14th, the Hyperledger Global Forum will be happening. You can save 20% if you want to purchase tickets that'll be in Ireland and Dublin. So any European folks might be interested in that as well. Since you're pretty close to it. But there are some interesting things at that event that are related to healthcare so it's more broadly about hyperledger and blockchain and DLT but there are three events that I found that are specifically targeting healthcare people. So how 3.0 how I defy enable tokenized data economy will reinvent healthcare and put patients burst. That goes with Heather Flannery from Equidium. There'll be a demo on achieving pharma supply chain resilience with blockchain. So that'll be by Daniel from Zoo League pharma. And there's a panel discussion about the best practices for leading healthcare and life sciences blockchain production deployments and advanced research investigations. There are some folks here who I'm actually quite familiar with so that'll be interesting too. Additionally, there's a converge to X symposium on September 15 that'll be in Austin, Texas. And this event has been going on for a number of years they're specifically focused on blockchain and healthcare. So, how they recommend that event as well. On September 23 and 24, they'll be in a DCI decentralized science Boston event. And November 13 to the 16th in Las Vegas we have the health 2022 event which is always a large health IT sort of event. Are there any other events that you may be aware of that you want to share with the community here today. This is Wendy. I actually don't have any to share. I normally specify what I am speaking in, but I don't have any. I can't think of anything else. Okay, no worries. Wendy. Nice to see you there. Okay, in that case, I think the next thing we can be doing here is just discussing some of the articles I found over the last couple weeks related to blockchain just some interesting things that might be impacting a way of thinking in the industry. This is still relatively new decentralized ledger technologies haven't really, you know, revolutionized healthcare or any industry fully yet I think we're in the progress of seeing that and the finance space in the economy. They're defying things like that but let's start here with the Bloomberg article. The crypto firm nomad loses nearly $200 million in a bridge hack. You know, as you may be aware, there's many, many types of claims about how blockchain and crypto is dangerous and it's a fad so things like this where you see a company lose hundreds of millions of dollars in the hack. For sure it kind of takes the community by surprise. Well, maybe not by surprise but at least it shocks the community in a bit, and it kind of steers them away from crypto. Because just because of the fear of losing money here. Again, there are many bridges between different block chains so this term bridge is just used to explain how you can connect to different blockchain ecosystems or networks. More seamlessly so nomad is a major protocol that does this. So it's used for transferring crypto tokens across different block chains. There was a security exploit. Looks like they were drained of the funds over hours and small batches by various accounts. There's still an investigation ongoing about this so there's no clear things that have been explained but I didn't notice this morning that I think the hacker returned $9 million back to nomad which was interesting. I don't have that article here but just to follow up on this one. Yeah, I mean, you know, we also saw earlier this year, Axie infinity. They also had a bridge and they lost about $600 million in March. So this is not the first time this has happened to a bridge protocol. And it just goes to show you that there are still vulnerabilities with this type of technology and, you know, before we completely launched these types of technologies and healthcare. I know how conservative healthcare it is so we want to make sure that the security is pretty tight. Any comments or thoughts here from the community or members about this hack. What is a bridge hat. So, so let me start off by explaining like what a bridge protocol is it's basically a way for, for example you have NFTs on polygon, or you have cryptocurrencies on the polygon network and you want to transfer those tokens on a different blockchain into like Ethereum, for example. That's what a bridge protocol enables. So it creates like a seamless connection to other blockchain protocols. A bridge hack just from my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong if anyone is more familiar familiar with this is hackers just found a vulnerability within that system within those protocols and was able to actually take the funds the crypto money and deposited in their own wallets, essentially. Again, there's still an investigation ongoing but that's a good question Wendy. And maybe it's something I can like look into so that maybe in our next meeting we can discuss like, how does a bridge like in more detail and how does that really work because it's something that I don't think we'll be seeing less of I think because of this. You know, the many different blockchains we have in the ecosystem. I think we'll continue to see bridges. So, yeah, that's my simple explanation hope that was helpful. I appreciate that we're always learning. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a way to make blockchains more interoperable, if that helps. And it says here, for example, the complexity of bridge software can lead to errors and make them vulnerable for for exploitation. Said the chief information security officer a polygon, since bridges control huge amounts of assets it also makes them an attractive target for hackers. Great. I just offer, since I'm always free to offer my opinion on this for in this forum. This is where blockchain as a word gets a bad name because these are basic security 101 supply chain vulnerability issues that are just aren't addressed. So people slap this crap together because it's all web three and a cool without actually doing proper security vulnerability assessments that any financial institution would potentially do or operate in a secure way. And so somebody finds an easy five cent code vulnerability and takes out millions of dollars in in stored value, because they weren't implemented proper to begin with and blockchain gets a bad name. Appreciate that Jim thank you. And one thing to also note there are companies now that all they do like their services is specifically on helping these companies find security vulnerabilities and assess the security of the company. Overall, so I'm sure we're going to see those types of companies can continue to grow as well. I'm speaking as a Linux foundation project I would remind everybody about the availability of free training on best practices for open source code developments and secure code and the use of the open source six store program for Signing your secure code as part of development. Awesome and Jim where can people find that open SSF.org the source security foundation project at Linux foundation. Perfect. Thank you for that. Okay, the next article, I thought it was worth sharing here is I did see this Daily Mail article claiming, or it said a House Intelligence Committee member warns people not to share their health data with sites like 23 and me, because it can be used to program new bio weapons to target them. From reading this it did kind of seem alarmist a little bit this article. I think a claim that where did it say it says us senator from Iowa Johnny Ernst, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee said that us rivals could use such bio weapons to target food supplies on a vast scale. So Ernst warned that biological weapons could be used to target animals that citizens troops and cities depend on bringing about scarcity and food insecurity to weaken people. So, you know, personally I have shared my 23 and me I've used 23 and me. There's benefits that there are risks and when I did it it was before blockchain actually, or before blockchain and healthcare. There are now companies, web three companies that allow you to get your DNA sequenced and can keep that information relatively private and secure. So if I had to go back I would probably have would waited. So when I've done 23 me I would have used like, for example in that village no mix or another service that is web three based. But I just wanted to like how crucial your DNA data could be how important and sensitive it could be here. So, let me see if I can find some other quotes that might be interesting. Yeah here it says last year. Senator Marco Rubio sounded the alarm that Russian and Chinese labs are processing DNA tests of Americans through Medicare and Medicaid. So, we're outsourcing a lot of this work. Allegedly to Russia and China. Again I haven't done a deep dive into this I don't know for sure what's happening but it is a reason to be concerned I guess. Although there is something here in 2018 ancestry 23 me habit helix and my heritage all signed on to the policy drafted with the help of the future of privacy forum to nonprofit and supporting the support of advancing responsible data practices in support of emerging technologies so this is a policy agreement between these companies I think not to share, or to make sure that the data is handled very securely. But yeah I mean there's certainly an alarmist tone to this article. I don't know if others have opinions on this or I don't know if it's consistent with the tiny male editorial policy, I'll say, I'll say that. It's consistent with that. Yeah, that they won't be taking my own editorial policy and that is that perfect spectrum between, you know something bad is going to happen, and health issues. They like stories like that. Right yeah I mean, I get. So Medicare and Medicaid sell Americans information to China because they will process it cheaper because they get to use the information for their own purposes. Well, so I think it's not the information self but the DNA tests so I don't know if the physical samples are going to China and Russia and we're not making any claims about this again this is just one article, but I think it's the actual samples that's what I would imagine. I don't know why they would send the information or the data, maybe to process that information for some reason but I feel like we have capable people in America to do that. And we don't have labs in America that can. So it might have been because of the samples. Yeah, so I'm not sure if it's because of coven where we had to just have more samples processed more quickly. So it's a matter of saying. Yeah, I don't think they were selling we were probably paying. No that's what I'm saying if you're paying less that it's a subsidy is the same as selling. Okay. Yeah. No subsidies are not the same as selling in a contractual sense but I was glancing. I was digging up the article as quickly as I could because I had really read it. And essentially you have domestic operations of Chinese owned facilities that are lab so when you say hey we can do it in America. The answer is it's being done in America. Now whether or not that is with a lab that is owned or has a mature or which a Chinese firm as a majority interest is a different story and let's not forget that that's kind of tricky if I pass a law that says all DNA testing has to occur within the continental United States everybody will salute and do it. Unfortunately, it's a different issue to then sort out that that lab testers can't have or can't be majority owned by foreign interests, or that it has to be US national only those are essentially security measures that you really only get at the DoD level. And the answer is yeah you're going to pay a hell of a lot for implementing those restrictions and when you think of the volume of testing done and Medicaid and Medicare. I don't think that a domestically owned US only facilities are adequate for getting it all done. Sure. Yeah, it's a supply issue in many ways. Yeah I mean it also says here that technology could lead to highly targeted assassination programs and also make it harder for killers to be tracked down so yeah. It's a good use case for the kind of lab that you can share. So then the kind of lab that is shared by people and anyone who wants to process their own 23andMe can, or their own genetic information can go into that lab and then they keep the data instead of it belonging to the lab. What do you think about that? The tough thing is we just don't have laws to do that. The US doesn't care about that. US citizens don't care about that. And so we don't have the sort of similar protections that you have say in the EU that's starting to mandate more and more the data of EU citizens is kept in the EU on EU servers that you know data, data sales or data transactions have to have consent. We don't have any of those frameworks because we don't care. Yeah, speak for yourself. I've you know I've just grown to say we don't care as a general statement because I know you care, I care probably everybody else on this call cares but you know we simply we simply can't seem to get any of these initiatives. We don't care about the fact state and federal government representatives that tear enough to get it done selectively 14 states have tried to pass water down versions of GDPR 13 states have failed. One has passed none of them have the sort of obligations and liabilities for private companies that you have in the GDPR model. So, I just. Sorry, sorry, you're aware that five states have passed GDPR like statutes right. Was that Wendy. Yeah, this is Wendy. Yeah, I'd love to compare. Yeah, I'd love to compare notes with you on that the last I saw from the International Association of Privacy Professionals legislation update was there were 14 out there, and 13 had failed. I'm aware of a couple more failures. I'm not sure what you know five have passed. Of course, starting with California, Virginia, Colorado, Oregon. Well, I would just, I would just offer a technical point that CCPA is not really considered a, a model for GDPR. It has some. CCPA is outdated. It's CP are a is the latest version that was passed. It's much closer to GDPR. I perform the state by state analysis, because we, as a data management company have to manage privacy for each of the states as well. I mean, accommodate each of the states and so we had to design flexibility into our platform to be able to accommodate emerging privacy statutes. I will put a link in the chat about what the current status is, but there's absolutely five states that have passed and most of them going to affect in 2023. Oh, that's excellent. Yeah, I'd like to take a look because I think the, yeah, the IPP page, at least the last I looked at it was was closer to the beginning of the year so I'd like to see what the updates are for the other ones. So, but yeah, I know you mentioned Virginia, Florida's died in the Senate. I wasn't sure about Colorado, I completely forgot about CPR. Utah. Utah wins the fifth. Okay, cool. Utah. Interesting. So in California, you're not allowed to sell our information. Your website has to have a do not sell my information button. That's the California law doesn't require that all of the information stay in the United States. It just requires that you do not sell it anywhere. Am I right. I turn to you because I'm not sure what CPRA specifies I remember under CCPA they basically left PHI out of it and just left it under HIPAA regulations. Yes. So, there are in CPRE there are maybe like 18 different exceptions for being able to control and remove your data. So information is deliberately excluded as is research related information but not repositories. So they're there and there are some nonprofits that are excluded it's just a long, it's a long list of exclusions it's actually really complicated and this is these are the type of details that I go through with some of our customers, just to determine whether it actually applies. I appreciate it guys. I'm going to be moving on to the next article here but I think, you know, a discussion on CPRA in the future might be interesting for the group here. So, third article here is from Gizmodo. 32 data brokers are selling over 2.9 billion profiles of US citizens that are considered potentially are actively pregnant or shopping for maternity products. Why does this matter? Well, as we know Roe v Wade legislation or there has been a change and now that people are able to almost rat other people out who are pregnant and they can really feel some penalties on that so data companies are actually sharing a lot of information unfortunately and putting a lot of women at risk of, you know, legal issues so they're doing that because they want to sell them birth control pills or something or what's like the morning after pills. No, unfortunately, I think it's more more concerning than that actually so let me take a look here I didn't fully read this article actually so I would like to just quickly zoom through it as well. So in total Gizmodo identified 32 brokers selling 2.9 profiles also on the market data on 478 million customer profiles labeled as interested in pregnancy. So basically, federal law enforcement has been all over data brokers and aptro is for years just recently. washdog group revealed that coinbase had been selling data on crypto users to us immigration and customs enforcement. I think the concern here is that women could be prosecuted for illegal abortions right so can local state police use the data, since they're able to buy it freely. They can take that data, analyze it and determine which individuals which women were pregnant, and then maybe all of a sudden weren't, and they can use that information to investigate, whether or not the woman had an abortion. And that's the, that's the issue. I think this article is trying to present. We couldn't hear you Andy can you say that again. I had an incredible experience last week. I sat at a table at a local conference with the former president of the American Medical Association. And she was talking about how in some jurisdictions now. Gynecologists and obstetricians are receiving death threats afraid for their lives. And in fertility clinics have had to greatly step up security. And in some states, women are being charged for when there is an apparent miscarriage because it, the goal is to further intimidate them from performing abortions. It was, it was a different perspective than I have heard and it was, it was very disturbing for those of us who've been in the medical space for how doctors are now being targeted. Yeah, absolutely. I think doctors, gynecologists who would like to potentially help these women in many cases simply can't do that, or if they do they're going to fear for their own prosecution as well so Yeah, like that this, this, the most recent past president of the AMA told me she's an oncologist. And there are certain medications of course very toxic and chemotherapy that can induce a accidentally induce miscarriage and she said she's had to get extra malpractice insurance she's been threatened with lawsuits. And previously, when a pregnant woman would come in for care for her cancer. They have to talk about lots of aspects of contraceptives and she said now she's afraid she's going to be prosecuted for practicing oncology. Well, maybe it's an overreaction, but it's the reality of people's fears. And I think it's, it's worthwhile to be a really, let me just say it shook me and I'm not going to speak for anyone else. For sure and this is definitely a sensitive topic here in the United States. This is not going away this issue. I have seen some apps, some like apps that measure menstrual cycles. They have enabled an anonymous mode so that users can use the app without their data. However, I kind of push back on that thinking that there's still some cookies somewhere being tracked against their other browser habits. So, I don't know how effective that is. I'm sure if someone is really, really motivated they can. They're able to find that data, especially law enforcement who have maybe more access in some ways. But yeah, I'm just curious does anyone know of any blockchain web three companies trying to specifically address the issue regarding you know pregnant women and abortions and that stuff. I haven't found any either. So, just a note here commercial data could be the next step. In an interview, the fourth amendment center director for National Association of criminal defense lawyers call this kind of commercial data on pregnancy is a really valuable treasure trove. Overzealous prosecutors could buy this information from data brokers and start following start to follow through and decide what behavior looks suspect enough to prosecute. So, yeah, just wanted to let you guys know this was, you know, an interesting article I thought, overall, so we'll probably be talking about this types of issues in the future as well. Okay, this protocol article this was too many prescription ads on tic-tac tic-tac Facebook and Instagram, which is helping to fuel prescription drug boom so lots of prescription drugs are being prescribed through these social media apps so basically have teenagers and young adults being bombarded with advertisements to try a new pharmaceutical drug and I think that it's interesting because in some countries, other countries outside the US, you know, you're not allowed to have TV commercials with drugs being advertised. I don't know what the policy is in in the UK regarding tic-tac or other social media app ads. I don't know if Sid you're aware of anything regarding that. So, they don't fall under the same sort of broadcast restrictions as, you know, television is I think there's been, you know, talk but I think that's all there's been about developing policies for it but I think I don't think as far as I know there's anything there but yeah you're right along the on on television and other sort of like, you know, mass mass channels like that there is there are restrictions but yeah tic-tac not aware of. Interesting. Yeah, it says here the US is almost alone and embracing direct to consumer prescription advertisements, drug advertisements, nations as desperate as desperate as Saudi Arabia, France, China, all find common ground in banning such ads. In fact, all developed nations only New Zealand joins the US and giving pharmaceutical companies a direct line to consumers. It's very interesting. You know, this is not news. We probably already all knew this to some degree. But yeah, it's and you can see the results from this right we can see how I don't want to say addicted Americans are to prescriptions but there is an increased amount of users in America so here. Yeah, Americans are highly medicated. A Mayo Clinic study from 2013 found that nearly 70% of Americans regularly took at least one prescription drug. Yeah, so, and I think the most concerning thing here is most of these new drugs that are being advertised our mental health related drugs so for ADHD. So things like Adderall and other habit forming drugs are being pushed through social media and you know most people who are using social media are on the younger side so yeah there's a concern there. So I also wanted to mention that I did watch a pretty good John Oliver episode recently on mental health and he talks about some of the stuff that, you know, mental health companies are doing to push their agenda I guess you could say, the fellow cerebral was one of the companies that was mentioned in that episode. So I recommend if you guys haven't watched that to check it out on YouTube. Any thoughts or opinions on this, are we, how are we mitigating this using DLTs hyper ledger blockchain is there any examples of companies you guys are aware of that are. I mean it's a tough problem because it's mainly regulatory right still legal to do this so we're not going to stop companies from doing it. Yeah. Okay, next on the list here is from healthcare it news debunking some of healthcare as big as blockchain myths. So this was an interview with the CTO chief technology officer at zealous and zealous is a healthcare payments company. He's a blockchain expert. And this was pretty interesting I thought just to discuss his perspective. What are the primary use cases for blockchain. You know they discuss privacy and data security as a major use case. What are some of the myths that persist about blockchain and healthcare so there's still a lot of confusion surrounding blockchain since it's relatively new. The confusion that blockchain and Bitcoin are the same likely stems from blockchains association with Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. So we're aware of this confusion I think here, we're proud. You know the members here are probably more a little more sophisticated and understand that blockchain Bitcoin is a blockchain but there are many types of blockchain networks that can be developed. So what I think is that blockchain can only be used for cryptocurrency, but using blockchain and cryptocurrency together is an ideal pairing, given the secure and and in the traceable nature of technology. Any thoughts on this one. I wrote this article when it first came out and I kept checking the date, because like, it felt like this would have been part of it four years ago. Yes. Because we have encountered different myths lately and different use cases. So I, I just felt this today really short on content. The myths that I would also like to dispel that he put forth is that about security because a blockchain is only as secure as the nature of the design and the programming utilized. And blockchain inherently isn't necessarily more secure as we learn from all of the breaches and hacks. And it's really about how an organization designs the infrastructure in which it occurs. Beautiful summary Wendy I couldn't agree. Oh, good. Okay, thank you for saying that some people just ardently disagree with me and then I have to describe like for our health blockchain, we have to track intrusion detection we track malware virus scanning we have to put, we've about 10 to 12 different systems that we have to add to our security in order to provide additional security. So it's really not just about blockchain itself being secure but how you design it and and and my Absolutely goes right back to my comments earlier so we have still the blockchain will save the world crowd that does want to pay attention to basicness security controls and then we have articles like this that offer no education at all in 2022. Well said, Wendy it's like something we would have written you and I would have written in 2015. Agreed. Yeah, I mean, we just can't seem to move the ball forward of people understanding basics here still all the hype and the buzz and the magic. Agreed. Thank you. Well stated Jim. Excellent. Thanks guys for that input. This is a Forbes article watch out Facebook Instagram and YouTube blockchain is coming for you. So this is another probably Plus Facebook controls the blockchain. Well, yeah right. And the metaverse as well. So, not too deep this article but just wanted to raise awareness that Forbes is continuing to raise some awareness about blockchain with its business community and members. So conversations today is less about social media platforms dominating our personal expressions, but the shift away from platform economy. That has dominated web 2.0 to the open source self identification economy that will dominate the next 10 years so open source is definitely becoming more hot topic, which you know I think it has been for the last 10 years. That's how I perceive it but Especially since we're sitting in an open source for exactly right Jim. This stretches across financial and healthcare sectors and even how government sustained sovereign control over the value of near anything as each of us becomes our own market physical and virtual that is protected by our own digital wallet and the power of blockchain technologies. Okay. When curious way that you can stay current on which companies are moving into blockchain is to subscribe for job notices just for the word blockchain in LinkedIn. Like, I was surprised how aggressively Amazon is hiring for its health watching and how many companies that are traditionally conservative are hiring for a blockchain positions. So that's just another way to see it, where the movement is going. Yeah, I wasn't actually aware of Amazon's interests in blockchain and healthcare so that's I think they're trying to build infrastructure the only way I know about it is because I keep receiving push messages from LinkedIn that Amazon is hiring engineers for its health watching. Interesting. I know they're, I don't know if they'll commercialize it or not so Sure. I mean I know about their acquisition of one medical so that was huge. Very interesting. Wendy, I think that's a tremendous point because if you think about the blockchain and healthcare him's panel which I think you were on I know Heather was on there. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's great to hear anthem talking about them using blockchain but you know if all they're doing is using blockchain and an internal deployment to keep up their otherwise horrible healthcare pre authorization denial system. You're not, you know, you're not changing the world you're not transforming health there it's not decentralization social. Yeah. Well said. Thanks guys. All right. I found this article by a Bitcoinist. So this is a new company from what I've seen immunity that life. I don't know too much about them, but they are trying to create a new healthcare related network for tokenization of healthcare data. It seems like they want to do a lot. I don't know if anyone's familiar with this company but it was designed to combat are to combat these challenges related to just managing data. Specifically, according to, let's see here, you know data sharing and collaboration or fragmented patients have no incentive to receive treatments that are otherwise available to them. Broad and corruption can seriously hinder healthcare efforts in different regions and lack of education can also lead to sub optimal health outcomes so I'll be watching them I don't know too much about them they have this token rewards program staking so I don't know how legitimate they are in the healthcare space versus just another crypto venture using healthcare as an application. Not to talk negatively about them I just don't know them well enough so if you're listening immunity life I'd love to have you on and you can maybe discuss. Immunify that life sorry, you can now explain. Thank you for its interesting Ray because take a look at these articles we present the first half the discussion was talking about security and vulnerability assessments and meaning security criteria which Wendy elaborated on beautifully. And then we flip over an article saying, Oh, we have a tokenization system for lab data. Okay, show me the vulnerability assessment. You know, we somehow are allowed this, this, this cognitive dissonance that both are okay at the same time. You're right. Yeah, so those are the articles I did have some educational nuggets as well. There's a video, we won't watch it now but it's a video on how web three is all about communities. And you need to build one with a story so the story of your web three community is very important. And there's an a 16 z article about Dow governance attacks and how to avoid them. So, this is very interesting it's pretty dense as well but very, very useful. It includes like, you know, increasing the cost of acquiring voting power, increasing the cost of executing attacks so discusses details along those lines. So here this is a framework for assessing and addressing vulnerability. So we're just talking about this so to analyze the vulnerability of different projects. We use a framework captured by the following questions so profit to a tractor is the summation of the value of the attack. The cost of acquiring voting power so what does it cost to have the enough voting power to make that change and the cost of executing that attack so if the value. If it's worth it, you know, they'll, they'll execute on it so this is sort of a simple framework. Again, a lot of things to consider in a Dow and governance so it's interesting they use steam it as an example here. The voters use their steam tokens to choose the witnesses. What followed was a public back back and forth. Yeah, has anyone use steam it recently it used to be like a supposed to replace Reddit on Web three but it didn't really take off. And finally, I did I did also include this round table with Wendy that happened last month or very recently actually so you can watch that it's on YouTube as well. It's with the government Blockchain Association so I wanted to include that in here as well. So thanks Wendy for doing that for sharing and I wanted to thank some of you and this audience here for attending and asking great questions during the session. While we're open. I wanted to point out that a few of us put some links in the chat today and that just for additional articles that have come forward. Organ is it like I put in one that has a title, it's the, it's a LinkedIn article but it talks about how blockchain technology and healthcare market is expected to grow 68.3% CAGR, and it has some great images about where and how it's going to grow. This is the type of information that I like to share with prospective customers to say that this isn't height this is real and organizations are implementing it and here is a market assessment. So, I also put in some additional links about security and computing power so just additional information for you all to examine. And I personally I'm going to use this, the market technology and healthcare, let's say that blockchain technology and healthcare market expectations in some of my promotional materials because I think it's, it's a powerful message about how much growth there really is. Excellent thank you. And with that, is there anything else members would like to share any other comments or events or anything coming up that you'd like to share here with the community. And I will also know I'll add some of the links and messages that were sent in the chat and I'll put it directly in the agenda comments section so people can look at it later on. Hi, this is Ramesh, currently we are implementing the health chain use case the conversion model in one or two weeks you know I've posted in the community. So how the people who are in the health consortium exchange the information between the hospitals and in the secured manner, and that we are, you know, committing the hyperledge fabrics. Yeah, same here Ramesh, but if there is I think you mentioned you're working on a project related to helping hospitals connect data something like that but if you have a link maybe or contact info, you know if you want to put it in the chat that might be helpful. Sorry. Currently it is in progress. Most probably for the next week I know I would like to share it on the community group. Oh, okay great. Yeah, let me know you can send me an email. That would be interesting. Sure. Sure. Thank you. Thanks for mesh. So he would just saying that he's working on a project and he'll be closer to being ready soon and he wants to share it with the community. Excellent. Look forward to it. Yeah. Well with that everybody. Thank you. Appreciate it. I hope you had a good meeting hope you enjoyed this and had something you learned something from it. Have a great Wednesday and we hope to see you back in two weeks. So thank you again. Really appreciate it all. Thank you. Thanks Ray. Bye bye.