 Welcome to the Monday, May 6 meeting of the Panpeolio Design and Review Committee. I will let members and staff introduce themselves Meredith Crandall staff Steven Everett Unless anybody has anything else to add beforehand do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? Okay second All in favor of the agenda raise your hand Agenda is approved And again unless anybody has anything to add beforehand will go to the first applicant for 127 Elm Street Katie Swick and Kirby come forward and have a seat come up and sit at the table And you can adjust the microphone is you need to And by the way, I didn't mention it for anybody who has not been here We are advisory to the Development Review Board We will listen to the applications and move them forward to the Development Review Board's next meeting or or the Administrative approval, okay, all of these tonight are administrative approval. Okay. Okay So go ahead describe your fence. So I Live at 127 Elm Street, and I'm hoping to put in a 48 inch high Picket Fent picket fence and it's 48 inches because I'm registering for a child care and that's the requirement is 48 inches high and So from the pictures From my house from my yard. It's only about 19 feet between the sidewalk and the house So the fence is going to run along the fence the front of the house And down the side and then back along the river which will then connect up to my deck Which there's not a picture of in the back. I guess you can see kind of the overview but So run that all the way around there I'm hoping it will be a pre-made like eight foot long sections of a milled mill picket fence. It will be seater on spruce and Yeah, and we will be painting it to match the color of the house Which I brought up pulled up a picture on my phone, which is a little more accurate than the one on Google It's kind of a red cedar stain So we will paint it to match that the color of the house After quick question the pre-made picket fence are the tops of the pickets come to a point or are they rounded? The mill picket one There's three different kinds. It's not the dog ear which has a little cut I think it's the Think it's like the sort of the point the little point on there though like how old are the kids How old are the kids of the under the ages of five? Oh, okay? Yes Suggestion just if the pickets are pointed. Yeah Round them just for some little I could decide she's climbing Rounded, okay Yeah There was a case years ago. Yeah Want to avoid that, okay Other questions We're just a corral them Yeah, so there will be a gate in front of the two little sidewalks If you can see in the picture there's two little sidewalks, and then I'm gonna put a gate next to the driveway Three gates. Yes, and is the attempt to have the kids come to the front? To yeah, there will there be playing from the front and all the way around at the side Kind of depends on where the Sun is that time as we follow it There's a little section in the back that they can play but so Yeah, I won't have and I'm not too much equipment. I'm sure that the installer will do it But when you put the gates up, it's helpful to have a high latch on the outside. Yes Yes, yes For I have all these regulations to follow okay, and that is one of them and height and touching the ground Safety Obviously the finish the picket side will be on the outside towards the street, right? Yes No, then I put flowers along the edge Did I didn't did you guys pass that around? Yeah? Yes? Yeah Yeah And it it will be cemented into the ground because it's on the floodplain the post Yes No, I shouldn't in the back The ground isn't totally level, but I don't think it will it should be noticeable For the child care there's for the fence You know I'm open to Suggestions, I'm hoping like I there will have to be a little bit of a Right away how long and so I was hoping to just put flowers there to Kind of offset how that will look if it's set back a little bit. You have all your Survey pence in place, you know exactly where it's going Not exactly. We're there's still some discussion with the public works. Yeah exactly where the line where Okay, no, I'm just the side yard. I'll say you have tens locating the side yards For the property boundary between you and your neighbors. No, I've just we've just verbally talked about it where it's going like a foot away from His there's a big fire escape there. He's there's a fire escape there now The only reason I was asking is that somebody in our neighborhood installed the fence and turned out to be two feet on the Yeah Exactly the right place Double-check again has nothing to do with design, but it avoids a lot of aggregation Yeah, yeah, and I did talk to him once but I'd like to talk to him again I've had a little temporary wire one right there right now Kind of testing it out. It's Good So again, our only preview is the design. Yeah, so any any suggestions for the design or concerns that you Safety on the top When you're painting it You're using the cedar the red cedar color Darker shades showed dirt less So You want to go a shade or two darker that's fine because it will paint anybody This is a solid state Yeah Yeah, I'm gonna picture it looks like the house actually Good any other questions comments suggestions from anyone What I'll do is there's a set of criteria for each of the applications And I'll read down through them Evaluation criteria number one preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district where involves an historic structure acceptable Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable Compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties acceptable Compatibility of proposed landscaping non-proposed with this application Prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable Location and occurrence of all utilities any additional lighting that needs to be added No No, there's Lights might be a street light nearby there. Well, yeah, I mean on that telephone pole There's a street light we have one and then no there was already I think enough lights on the house Okay, so non-proposed in this application Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable All in favor of the application. It's proposed raise your hand Sign that one above my name on the lower left I'm sure that has that's one of the specifications. Yes That's a layer Okay, try to anticipate every exploration Okay, okay, great. Thank you very much Yes, the next application is 473 Main Street come have a seat Tim Welcome back Even the mic's the right height. Yeah, good Describe your windows the window. So this is the array over at the front doors It's in Black River Designs offices, thank you in Walking through looking at some of their renovations. I realize how bad the windows were So we're seeking to replace four of them and then the others are Intact and we'll just put glass the storm layer inside. So basically if you look across the bottom, it's the three What do you call them two? paints of glass units And then right above it in the center. There's one arch top So those are the pieces we're gonna we'd like to replace and then the ones to the right and the left are fixed And they're fine. We're just gonna leave those And I think the difference is proposed in this application for the arch top up above right now It's a double hung that opens but because it's an arch top it only can go up a little bit and no one's used it in More than decades. So I think the proposal is just to have a fixed sash for there and then for the lower level It was blacker's idea was to do casements that would open out Is that the right term awning type? awning opens for the bottom No, it's awning Because really the only one that opens in this group currently is the middle To and that's a slide over and they've had an air conditioner in that one of those bays for years, which has been Ugly and dripped on the front entry, so I'm glad to have that disappearing So anyway, that's the proposal is the three awnings and the one arch top The one advantage of the arch top on top If the lower sash, if the arch top is fixed and the lower sash Can lift you don't have to lift it all the way up You can lift it up two inches and tip it in tip it out And it makes cleaning the windows on either side and up above a lot easier Okay, we've done that with some pretty good sized magnums where we have an arch on the top and it's fixed But it's a lot easier to reach out with your slide on a pole and do it in the upper glass And none of that because up above we have the bigger magnums But the arch top is actually above the double-hunges for this one It seems to be incorporated in the top We're trying to fix this fine, but yeah for maintenance purposes It's a lot easier to be able to clean it without having somebody get on a ladder from the outside or right along Pole which is hard when you've got the contours In those upper panels, yeah, it's a good thought Yeah, just leave them alone And singlet paint there That's what we're gonna put a storm sash inside on those by just a He did like a old style Pella with a clip in it, right? Yeah, I think those will be Better with the storm inside, but I don't know that it's the benefit of replacing them because they're fixed, and they're really tight I mean all the units we're replacing or some of you can actually see day later So I'm assuming you're using Marvin there Maybe work, I mean you're certainly able to do that, you know in the permanent It's allowable if you choose to you don't have to Open you compare making a clip-in window as opposed to just getting a fixed piece of glass putting it in and then sealing it up For good, and then you never have any moisture issues between the pants of glass But yeah, that's your call Yeah, if you want to prove it that way we can well give you the option Yeah, and the same with the top the top maybe we can look into having it be Double before whether we go brain the proposal right now is this one fix piece Yeah, it's an expensive little window I know we put on some magnums and they're 97 inches tall. Oh gosh I'm glad this is a little bit never have to replace something. It's only 52 the SDL that Basically In the interior yes And it really views the same windows I think we did 70 on the front of the building a number of years ago. It's the same Yes And same finish Yes It's really nice that they make an aluminum cladding that's that color it matches the color that was on the building Back when we started then it specifies simulated divided like Yes That's what we're planning to do Comments questions suggestions from anyone about anything else the two options We said just you have the option to install a Moveable lower sash unit for the top center arched window so you can put one put one of the one in with a movable lower sash and Then you have the option to install insulating Glass units in any of the fixed curved and arched So again, you can put storms on the inside and again that's out of our purview Anyway, but if you choose to get a fixed unit fixed insulated I g unit to replace the single pane unit You're gonna do it. Okay. It's up to you. And that's any time within the next two years All right, you don't have to necessarily do it all right now. Yeah, I think we do it We're just gonna do it. Yeah, because that's yeah, no it makes sense to have up there get it done Right one less piece of maintenance If there no other comments or questions, I'll go through the criteria Preservation the reconstruction of the appropriate historic style of the proposed projects in the historic district Who involves an historic structure acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable? compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable Compatibility of proposed landscaping not in this application Prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable Location and appearance of all utilities no change in lighting or any other utilities. So not applicable Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and state house Acceptable all in favor of the application with the options as proposed raise your hand. You can just sign that one above my name Thank you. Thank you. Good luck with your ongoing projects on the building. It looks great Thank you. I'm sorry Well, they've been there for Some of them look original Well, they've done you know a lot of maintenance again, they've really retained the way it looks I mean it looks nice It looks like a great funky building. Yeah Their offices look great obviously they've done a lot of work inside their offices. Let us know whenever you're ready Change the Okay Langdon Street Bridge come forward And although we know who you are introduce yourselves for the record I am Ward Joyce and this is twin win twin win. Would you spell that for us? T U Y E N And then NG U Y E N Thank you So we're here probably for the last bit of work for Langdon Street. Okay. We won a Vermont arts grant called animating infrastructure a year and a half ago and We have Been working on developing the piece and hopefully it's going to go in here in the next three weeks We've been tasked to buy the Vermont Arts Council to get it in by the June 5th The two conferences that are coming to town. So we've kind of set a timeline and so Win has accelerated this twin sorry as accelerated design and We're coming in to get your approval Hopefully for the lighting at the Langdon Street Bridge with LED lights. It's a temporary installation we're hoping that it lasts for three four five years and We are essentially donating it to the city and we will take it down when the Public Art Commission asks us to so we're kind of entrusting it to them to Determine its longevity so that looks great and last six or eight years That's fine. And if two years from now, they say, you know, this this hasn't worked for us Then we'll take it down It shouldn't require any maintenance. It's going to be installed It can be I mean it could be it could be damaged by someone if they wanted to go at it And you know hit it with a hammer kind of thing. It hasn't happened on any of the other work that's been installed in town We found a general general respect for everything. So we're hoping that it'll be fine. Let's say We love it and One of the yellow D strips Yep Go ahead. Yeah, I think we could just replace it with another one, but it is That specific strip is designed to like if one of the lights goes out It doesn't ruin the whole strip so but still the one chip will be out So there's a policy procedure for that event. Yeah Yep, the city has we're still working this out, but the city is offered to collaborate with us on it that they've offered to Potentially maintain it with us, but it's a low-cost piece. So we'll We will maintain it and it's powered up through PDs or housing. No, it's We are going to get power hopefully from I mean the intention is to get it from Leeds building He's already said it's fine. So we've had a commercial electrician there and looked at the lights that power the street So Andrew and Leeds both pay for the electricity from those in the lights That's probably not the circuit we'll use we'll probably go into Leeds basement and pull a new line with a commercial electrician and Bring power out and then that same electrician will Design the system to power the lights. So it's on a daylight sensor. Yeah, yeah, but we're Prepared to have it go on at dusk and probably go off at something like 11 every night. So it'll be a combination of dusk triggered and Appropriately shut off for the neighbors So we'll talk to the neighbors about it, but I don't think we need their permission. Well, actually, I'm sorry That may not be the case because I'm I'm still thinking about it over the street No, so people would look at it. So in reality, it's not going to bother. It's really not going to be in tenants windows The last installation was going to hang over the street and we were pretty aware that the their people sleeping inside windows So we had that it was a given that we were going to turn it off at a certain time But it may we'll see how it works. It may go all night. I mean, it's a I think it could be a strong piece So can you speak to the piece itself? So there's a reason the connections are working but you can show it on the laptop and we just turn it around for them So I guess you guys have seen the picture already. Do you want me to just talk about it first a little bit? Okay, um, sorry, I don't know why that's not Connecting in and our tech staff is done for the day. I make this full-screen Could you make this full-screen? Double-click into it I mean, it's pretty good Format it is this a video or is it a PDF? Oh, no, this is just PDF. I was just seeing it That's right Rotate better that way because that's it has the cable that actually locks the laptop I think it'll rotate better the other way so the Nice Macs. I never just grabbed my camera I Let me just I'll just talk about it real quick So the lights are gonna line the the railing side of the bridge and also the main Beam or trust we call the top part the beam of the bridge on the the outer parts and So when it's it's motion activated So whenever anyone gets on to the bridge, it'll trigger the light the lights to change So initially when when there's no sensor going off The lights will slowly fade between like all of the colors and spectrum which Like ever so slowly. So I guess technically the strips can create like 16 million over 16 million colors But it's super slow. So it's not like flashing crazy. Although whenever it gets triggered It's like a little it twinkles Multiple colors. I have a sample of that here. I guess that's what I'll just show you I'm proposing I guess one on each end so four So as soon as you get on the bridge from either side, it'll it'll go off And as long as the sensor senses you it'll keep twinkling But I guess if you go like out of the out of view It'll go back to the fade Yeah, I mean there's also the option of like separating each side to Initially my other design was like a Rose of light. So it was gonna kind of follow you as you went along But this kind of simplified it and and puts it on just like the whole fridge So there's only like four rows. I guess See it on the water Yeah, you can see it as you're physically walking especially though on the the bridge part because it's on the pedestrian side and then The the reason that I like the the point Fixing the lights the bridge is because there are multiple points within the city on different streets where you can see The bridge so you pretty much can see it from like I mentioned on Main Street Well, you kind of a main street and then State Street album and then school Street so it's cut and then with With the reflection in the water, I feel like it kind of doubles the effect to and if you look in winter, maybe With the snow, it'll kind of like cast some colors down there, too Does that picture there representative of reflection? I was gonna show you the the picture on the computer because it's a little bit more clear It's nice we can do that because they can capture it with the camera Did you try, you know f2 power the monitor or power the screen That's on it's just looking for the signal from that And normally all you have to do is connect that and be logged in But they did a whole reroute of the table and had everything out of place And so I think maybe somewhere down underneath where there's a whole mass of wires It didn't connect and that doesn't the screws to actually do anything I know But So here There's also the option of not covering acrylic pieces will be Defeasing the light on the outside, but there's also the option of like, you know, how much I cover So yeah, so it would be fading this would be like when it's solid one color and then whenever people get on the bridge It'll start to twinkle so It wouldn't be too cut if the camera's making it look kind of Yeah, so like So when no one's on it, it's a solid color Yeah, so it'll just like slowly fade. So when you're you know, just viewing it from the distance It's just kind of calm, but what if you stumbled upon it? Yeah, you're likely to find a different color each time Yeah, so if you're It's one color and then look at it again later, it'll be a different color I could change like that the length of time that I want it to be to and I have it kind of on the Some what slow That's probably better to have it fade and fade out rather than Twinkle, but you're also retaining the ability to program it after some time right like it's program Yes, so I can actually just do Change the program completely. Yeah And I also mentioned that The colors You can program it to holiday music, right I mean the nice thing about having an art commission is that essentially we can say that the art commission can control the piece and essentially we're She's we're doing it with a state art grant and if the art commission Asks us on other people's advice to please do x y or z to make it more Compatible with the city it can be programmed to adjust And you're talking about an acrylic over this top the boat arch What is the acrylic that's covering that is it clear colored or And those come in long strips that will be applied They come in like a I think four by eight Sheets, so then I would just cut it to the size of the The bridge and it'll have to be in strips and then I just kind of connect it probably with the H How do you attach the acrylic to the bridge itself? Yeah well There I think there are several options that I'm gonna that I have to kind of explore somewhere I would like to Behind the bolts so the way the bridge is There are lots of bolts, you know, so I think that I can slide acrylic behind it for it to sit there or I was looking into Magnets also so adhering the magnet to to the Acrylic and then that attaches to the bridge because we're trying to minimize any like damage to the bridge or so adhering it and I So during the daytime when you're looking down the river at the bridge at the At this the steel I can that arch It'll it'll look quite all the way across It will be inside it. So so the The black of the bridge will still be framing around it. And that's why I mentioned in the other Here So if it's sitting behind the bolts you still get the the bridge kind of outlining the acrylic So it still keeps maintains like the character of the bridge And then if I leave this part exposed, so there are these plates here with with bare bolts there. I feel like that Help keep the character still to so So you're saying in each span? There'll be a piece and then there could be a break at the joint. Yeah, and then the span starts again Right, so I'm just trying to envision what it's gonna look like and white instead of black. Yeah but it's kind of like a But when this all the hold the panel up against the black It's still Because even when when the light is on at night you can kind of see the dark behind it a little That's why I was kind of looking at the clear a little bit, too But but the light because the bridges black it doesn't reflect the light as much and it just absorbs it So the white Works better, but I see what you're thinking Well that created the bridge to replicate the historic structure Right, and I'm just trying to think of how the whites gonna make it look For two years Seven today specifically paint the black Yes, and also at the moment there's a lot of graffiti on the bridge Which is why I mean I was kind of interested in the more clear colors so that the black could come through but then unless we can paint the bridge or something Those will also be under the city should be maintaining it and keeping it painted black It's easy to get a spray can and just keep going over. Yeah, right as long as somebody's willing to do that just decide thought With the clear versus opaque if you had the clear would you be seeing? The actual lights more during the daytime when you don't really want to see not not the not the light of them Yeah, the the the LEDs are not lit during the day The wiring and some but it's not gonna be it's pretty small. How wide are the strips? Are you saying you're gonna mount it on a try on a Angle Steve getting back to your point. I can see where you'd say, you know white acrylic all day long Is that gonna look good? And that's why we're I'm I'm gonna help install it and we're sensitive to that Concerned so that's I think it'll be crispy and clean and hopefully it will look like an installation Right, and then there should be a tag on it as well Maybe we can get the arts commission to help us with they're going around finding public art and tagging them for the first time So maybe what we could do is put a tag on all four starting points and identify the piece As as a temporary art installation so someone looks at it They kind of get that the beautiful black bridge has gotten You know an acrylic installation, which I can I agree with you doesn't immediately sound like it's gonna be pretty When it's off, I know it's probably expensive, but they have a light sensitive acrylics that actually change color To an isn't it true to that the LEDs are strong enough that they would work well during the day Maybe not against black You mean I thought you said that there was a good that the lights could be quite nice during the day, too You don't don't think they'd be visible. I don't think it'll be okay I was gonna suggest that maybe we could try having them all be none of the few few days that we actually have some You can probably keep them on off in November Again, like what I was trying to emphasize was that the I'm I would like to put the strips behind the bolts So you still get a lot of like the character of the bridge, but I which I feel is like in the bolts You know, it's not the steel part Yeah, I feel like seeing that That's like where the character of the bridge comes out I guess, you know So that will be coming down into the acrylic Wanted clear More so the main point was Choosing that at the moment is Because the bridge is black it absorbs all the light and it doesn't reflect as much onto the clear as it would on the white So you don't at night time. You're not gonna see as much light. Yeah, you've got the clear, right? because um Because you know the more I mean I could potentially just put more lights But the more I put the more like power it uses and the more There's a lot more Power It is actually surprising how much it's what's your what's your sense of what it's gonna cost you I mean, it's not that much It's not like you know run off a 20 20 amp circuit, right, but it's not a couple CFLs. It's I don't know Yeah, I'm not sure how it compares to other LED strips specifically but this one the one that I'm using it's like 300 leds per five meters and it uses 90 wait, sorry 18 18 watts per meter. So 90 watts per strip Times four Times what? Times four Each row is about four four strips. So it's about 16 strips total So what do you think the total watt load? Well, we've been through this because it varies depending on how it's being active Yeah, here I have about I use all that about 300 something A year, but that's but that's only if the lights are on full bright white Like everything is on but this is going to be fading through all the different colors So it's kind of like having one or a little bit of others on at the same time. So It's I guess that more like a third of it It's guessing a third of it's fire once if it's just going from like RGB the red red doing the weird if it's going from you know one to the next So in fading it's not using all of that at once And then when it's twinkling, you know when people are on the verge too, it's not it's just some of the lights are coming on It's not all of them at once. So this is just like the maximum Um Estimate of what it would be using If it was just on full bright Yeah So which one were you talking about For these it's just that I have to get like more power supplies. That's that's what I was getting at I have to like get more And then like yeah, and then how's them and you know, um, I think the uh, the white So there's a big price difference between all those two. So like that glossy white one You want the most expensive one? Yeah, this is the difference like six dollars a square foot to like 18 dollars a square foot, but um Same thickness. Yeah I think it just must have to do with how it was manufactured So which one now um the glossy one there, but if it's a problem we could go with I mean like Because it could be reflective, but the the other ones That's the cheaper one the the glossy one and then the most expensive is the Frosted the frosted one That's probably Now if the lights behind the acrylic The white's gonna reflect it back I mean it will diffuse the light that you see but if white's reflecting and it will reflect it back against the bridge As opposed to have you thought of using Prismatic acrylic clear acrylic because prismatic will Scatter the light and make it look Larger than it is But at the same time it can be clear so that you'll see black through it There's a prismatic panel right there Yeah, I mean too much. Yeah, I think it's it's just a series of LEDs That are performing an act. Okay. I think if you diffuse them, I think you'd you'd lose the uh Well, you're gonna diffuse that somewhat through the white. Yeah, well, this will be yeah, it's kind of more a softer glow I guess then Yeah Aren't you tired of seeing these lights? No, they look different from a distance depending on the light behind them great More um Because the clear it basically just passes through and it's not collecting it or diffusing it It's for you to see on the surface Whereas the white is Kind of like collecting it. So so for the for the little pin points. It's like a frosted light. You would definitely be pin points Whereas on this you'd see more you don't see the filament I mean the clear it will it will kind of show that to you, but but I say it won't spread as far I just worry about the white again. I mean the bridge was done black specifically architecturally correct Yep, I don't think any of those acrylics are gonna blend with the bridge though. I think I don't think there's it's ever gonna disappear Right and it's only on the the pedestrian side. So you still have on the traffic the cut the road side is on So when I said both sides, I meant like both sides of the on the sidewalk side. Oh the sidewalk side. It's okay, right It is a because it's kind of Yeah, it's kind of like a It's reversible So can you explain the grant itself just a curiosity Yeah, yeah, I'll explain that so it is a animating infrastructure grant. It's one of uh Vermont art council's multiple grants We got a Small and it's firing grant three years ago for the project There was kind of a general grant and this grant is a very specific grant for people around the state of vermont who are Animating the infrastructure of their city or town so it it's for Anything to do with infrastructure And so that's how this this project worked is it's artistic and it animates an element of our city infrastructure And I was just talking with the administrator of the grant two days ago and she was really excited about this because um There's conversation about possibly lighting more bridges in Montpelier as a an expressive way of distinguishing our town the arts commission Has talked about it and so it it's an opportunity the animating infrastructure grant is not big But it's big enough to do something that's significant and the hope is that this Will inspire Perhaps some other work And then the bridge that takes you between dmv and the high school has already got lights on it Someone I know installed So it's one of me They go on a dusk And then of course there's the pocket park across the street Installed by someone I know and those go on at dusk and go off at dawn and the police love it They say it's great because all of a sudden the pocket park is purely visible And it's a you know comfortable place to sit at midnight and it just lights up animates Otherwise empty lot So night lighting is proven to be beneficial and kind of have civic charm So it's kind of a theme we've been pursuing and this is the first one that's color and motion and I'm pretty excited about it What are the What are the strip Options housing options. Um, so that was for the um, so the sidewalk side Um There are different shapes, I guess of of the aluminum enclosure that they could sit in But I'm going to go with that The angle one so So when you're on the bridge walk this arched one here, right? So when you're on the bridge, it'll be visible when you're the pedestrian it's it's kind of um Like this so when you're walking here, you can see it here But people on um state street or school street can also Pointing outward instead of just pointing straight out instead of pointing just straight out or straight up Now that won't be for the lighting Except for this lighting here. Yes. So for for down here and then also like the what I imagined Having it down there When people walk across the bridge the lights are kind of underfoot as they're walking across so I guess like once they trigger it It'll kind of be twinkling under Well, especially if you're on say state street bridge looking that way you see people walking It's gonna look like they're walking on the lights Yeah Now are those on the sidewalk or are they actually Attached under on the side of the rails here on the um on the Beside the sidewalk so like I guess like the concrete there's um steel right here, but um So yeah against that Yeah, so it'll be like Still be against the curb. So yeah against the Kind of like flesh with the sidewalk underneath the railing that way like in winter when there's clouds No, it won't get bumped Let's go off of it Yeah That was just yeah, I just I'm just trying to figure out but There's one thing There's a difference between a concept drawing. Yeah detail drawing We're not it's not a hundred percent detail We're still working on it Yeah, well, we're gonna seal it to keep um To keep the Water from getting in Had you thought of to doing that same strip underneath the upper Ledge on the steel Instead of what the whole panel a whole white panel that's filling that space if you thought about doing that curved Underneath or that doesn't give you the underside of the flange Where you got the top and then there's a flange on top and then you've got your actual steel here and doing something underneath Underneath the flange And do away with the the full sheet of acrylic that covers the whole beam I know it probably doesn't give you the effect you were looking for I mean it um It will just be a smaller thinner effect like what's under foot if I if it that's what's done But then with the plexi it just makes it just kind of highlights the bridge So you think the plexi is going to be kind of like a screen? And it essentially you'll be watching a screen change colors as opposed to Yeah, as opposed to just a strip um But would there be room between the flange and the bolts that are along the top and bottom to do that? Yeah, it'll be this it'll be it's the same I mean you could do Again, I showed that like that, but you could do a if this was the flange and this was the steel You could do a longer Then your light strip would be mounted up up above that. I'm not sure what the overhang is on that steel I'm just concerned that it was a million dollars spent to make that bridge build that bridge In painted black Yeah Well, and for two years, there's a white panel, so we But it would be there for I mean the bridge is going to be there forever It's not going anywhere No, but it is we do totally understand your concern that the installation doesn't I'm just trying to be respectful of the of the effort that went into recreating a bridge. I mean they could have built a bridge without without the Without the uh the old style steel structure To counter that we're actually doing an extraordinary job to highlight The structure of the bridge at night and actually while it may slightly Alter its view during the day. It's going to come alive in a way that never has And then we'll all be a judge good thing Eric's not here Yeah I mean you really see the character of the bridge. It's not really obscuring it very much The yeah all of what you're saying. I do appreciate that No, I mean just Right the the trusses are still going to be there. Yeah, these Crystal wrapped whole buildings What's that? Yeah, those were exciting it's only lasted a few days That's true Very interesting. I think lasting a couple years is a stronger statement, but so We haven't fully detailed these things and part of the reason that I'm engaged with the project as I'm helping and I will Work continue to work with this detail To do our very best to make the bridge look good and to make the installation look really snappy and clean And be durable Again, our concern is respectful of the historic significance of the and appearance of the bridge Yeah, I um I went to the plastic shop recently and got a small strip though that I'll slide behind the bridge So yeah, I think I you can get some I've been doing just like because I have the lights set up like in my studio and I just had the small strips, but I haven't Then a large version yet I'd like to see one panel on the bridge from state street So put one up and have get a picture from state street of what it's going to look like during the daytime with the white up there Yeah, I think that would be helpful at least That'd be a good start to Would it make sense to Well, I guess just the the of the Panel of their choice their preferred panel color Is that making or by multiple? Oh, yeah. No, I think just good. I think if you'd like to see our preferred mock I'd like to see your preferred Done in full done in 3d. Yep Just one of the sections Just a small section So how do we keep the process flowing if we're trying to install by Literally the end of the spot. How do we come back to you and get approval It's gotta it's what's everybody else's opinion. I mean, I'm just one of four people I'm all for it To see the mock-up It's just that I can't Like you want a photo like to send you a video to share a video or because I can't like leave it out there Yeah, you would have to do a mock-up and take pictures and video and then come back for the next hearing Which would be in two weeks If they're if we if they go that route if they vote to go that route What would you like to do just I'm fine. I'm fine with improving it now. Okay, it would be nice to to have a little bit more say If I can see a mock-up Just would you all like to be invited to to view it with us you have input on it visually And so prove it now, but but say that we will invite you for a view of the mock-up and the ability to critique it with us And if they give other recommendations, they have to vote on them at the next hearing We can't issue if they have other input. Yeah, we will be able to put it in the I'm proposing They don't have further input, but that they come in and no, I'm just suggesting that is I'm hearing It suggested that it would be nice to approve it and also nice to give you all the ability to look at it And you know, I don't know if you have then have the power to retract your approval if you need that or But it'd be based on one of these samples, right? Right. So can't we Yeah, if you're good with yeah, if you're good with that and you're good with not having further input on the permit But having I think the idea is solid But she wants to use the white. All right, would you be okay with the white? Okay I mean, I personally wouldn't mind seeing it done in white and buffed To from B to be able to see it too. I mean, we're we're still Working out the best solution and so it might be worthwhile to see a couple finishes And to be able to compare them and if you know, we can do this at five o'clock in the evening and Three of the four you can come down for 15 minutes and share your opinion that would be Certainly would be happy to do that as long as the permit Recommendation gives options for the colors that you guys would be able to go with whatever Right You're you guys vote on what you want to do As long as it's as long as it's something that this is something that I can Put in for permit conditions and make it work so that whatever they end up doing works And I'm good So how would you like to word that let's just include the whatever the names of the samples are The one the one of Or one of the four samples Do you have to keep these well, actually, I don't want to yeah put the names because I don't want to put them in the file I don't have a vote. I like the softer effect personally So the white yeah, I like that softer effect Of the white matter buffed She just means that I just mean versus the clear Okay, just to have a softer effect whatever ends up giving a softer effect to the light So it's not so much like you're seeing bulbs through it. Yeah, but you're seeing the glow And you know the white It looks essentially a flange Yeah, that's kind of Yeah, it's kind of like a backdrop for the Bolts because they're really prominent. They're like five eighth inch So Yeah I mean, that's just like It's hard to tell how far out that flange goes because the whole thing is black See the construction The Yeah takes from the continuity and gives a little bit back a view of the bridge Yeah, because I do like enjoy That you respecting what is there What's existing and kind of playing with what is the site and Taking that into account before So is light your medium or um Sites specific installations So usually a kind of common materials. Um, I work with thread and wax paper and plastic bags Some mixture of things looking forward to seeing this however it ends up I spend a lot of time on that bridge as a kid and a teenager so Oh one thing I think I didn't mention in here, um but That bridge the trusses They kind of blend themselves well to benches also And that's like a spot where people people always walk on but there's nowhere to sit No potentially there can be a come back with some bench ideas If you're done some landscaping off the ridge of all right still there Yeah, we just um, it could be the last year the beds are kind of looking a little tenuous But uh, Montpelier live just gave us $750 to plant it this year. I just applied for a grant from them The people who do it just do it as volunteers and And Montpelier life hasn't watered them. So we've actually We've actually installed and watered the bridge like three summers in a row just as volunteers So we're gonna think we're gonna do it this one more year and then probably the beds will start falling apart They were you know, this line street life is kind of a tactical urbanism nothing we built there was permanent. So I've taken down multiple pieces the big landscape painting came down last fall and I was just encouraged to scrape one of John Snell's photographs off. It's starting to peel It's actually there's only two there's two that are really nice Up there and then there's one left, but like 20 all fell down. So Part of doing this is actually be responsible for taking care of it and taking it down So the park lit the seating area at Under River Sports is looking a little bit run down And I'd like to get kicked to maybe paint that this year So that's the challenge with public art. It's easy enough to put up and it's hard to maintain So, you know, we gotta do your I'm committed to not letting things look bad But it does take some Some effort So what I did I said the applicant is the option to choose one of the four acrylate panel colors the white the gp P95 satin ice or the satin ice white Which both give the desired artistic effect and at the same time respecting the historic characteristic components of the steel bridge And again, there's a Evaluation criteria that says preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style And I said that would be acceptable only because it's temporary and changeable In case there's a lot of objection For the again, not the way it looks at night, but the way it looks during the day, right? I mean, you know all these all these perspectives that you're showing here That was painted black for a reason So again trying to preserve that at the same time. Yep Criteria number two harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district Call it acceptable with other Compatible with other artistic installations Compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable Compatibility proposed landscaping not applied for Prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials probably Depending exceptional location and appearance of all utilities Again, except all the lighting is not the issue. It's the panels Recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and statehouse again, acceptable Again, temporary and changeable All in favor of the application With those options raise your hand Sorry, I did tease a little bit. Yes Well, thanks for working with us on this really appreciate it Again, I'm all for the artistic. Yeah, but again, we really try to protect the artistic I mean, there was a lot of money spent on design and building that thing absolutely Point taken and we will detail it as carefully as we can And would would you all like to be invited to a mock-up? I would like to see it Could you include me too? Sure You just need to sign that above my name there, okay, and then we'll be able to issue the permit and then how do we invite this committee? Tell her she can tell me Okay, if we have a day or two notice, I'd be great. Yeah, just toss it So twin it's all under your no pressure It's gotta be a south whatever that means we have like three weeks to put it up, right? I've also got 12 projects It's gotta be done. We've been told it's gotta be by the conferences Yeah, I'll have to go get one of these though because I have a I have a p95. That's the one that I that he gave me And one other thing just to mention They might be when you if you do whatever you end up doing if you're putting acrylic panels in there They go down to the bottom It might be a good idea to notch those For we pulse because if it's raining and it's driving in from one direction That brain's going to push in behind the acrylic panel and drown all your lights So we pulse so that whatever's in there can drain out and hopefully that the strips are waterproof enough to Take some moisture and a beating Okay, thank you very much. Good luck Does anybody had a chance to look at the meeting minutes from april 15th nobody's here. Yeah, so we'll table that And if there's no other business our next meeting is Monday, May the 20th. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Second all in favor of adjourn that raise your hand meeting is adjourned