 I will go through this because much more of this will be seen in the actual demonstration. So we create the overall structure, we create what are known as the course end-outs. These are essentially either technical document or techno-legal documents what to do, what not to do, do's and don'ts. Then just the way we do some announcements we have to provide the weekly updates. This is something like a notice board and then create a calendar and email facility is available but to be used rather sparingly because there is no way the participants can email you directly. So the email should be essentially one way and we have provided, we have used the email I think just now, first email was a week before the course started, second email was when I passed on to Professor Atre after four weeks of instruction, the third email was when Professor Atre completed, we finished half of thermodynamics so that email was saying now we are half way through, now we are moving to the second law of thermodynamics. I have a question related to email. So now that sort of 20,000 students are registered for thermodynamics, have you experienced that some of people figure out your email address through your website and directly write to you, have you ever started getting mails of that kind actually? I have received just one email like that, just one, but otherwise they know UN, Gaitonde, IIT, Bombay, they can go to IIT, Bombay website and somehow send them. Yeah but they are not writing to you on your other email. They are not writing to me at all but the forum is reasonably active so they can find either my gmail address or my IIT Bombay address, IIT Bombay address should be very easy to find. Brother Fattak, do you get emails on your own thing? Professor Sukratik and I are teaching this course, we have 58,000 students but we have not received a single email directly from anyone, I think we are reasonably buffered that way. Of course if someone wants to find out our credentials as he says are on the net, we have professors at IIT Bombay and our contact information is public knowledge from the IIT Bombay website. But I think uncannily, although the number of participants are very large, once they are advised right at the beginning that the method of using discussion forum, method of using interaction, etc., etc., I have not found any single exception so far, they abide by except that they are tempted to discuss quiz problems indirectly, however harshly you advise them that don't give indication to answers or something. And as he said, I gave this and it was wrong, he thinks it is all right because he is describing a wrong answer. Now we come to creation, I will quickly go through because the creation will be seen in another 5 minutes. Now as has already been said that typically although a lecture is for about 55, 60 minutes, a typical one, here the video I call video snippet is between 5 and 12 minutes. YouTube upload for us is limited to 15 minutes, one of my videos after editing was 1502 was thrown back by YouTube, but then I am a slow speaker, there are enough gaps so they could easily delete a few seconds and reduced it to 14, 58 for uploading. I go to the eStudio, record the snippets, after that what happens I don't really know, a few days later in a website, local website that raw video is available, I download or download usually and see it either at home or in the office. And then there is a loop here that if there are any correction, it goes back to eStudio for correction. Meanwhile parallelly I do this weekly structure and preparation of quizzes, I will show that structure to you in a moment. Then I pass the structure and snippet to the MOOC lab, the two representatives are there, Vrindha and Urmila and somehow transcripts get prepared, they come to me in my email box and I quickly go through the transcript, the only thing I do in transcripts is just reformatting, maybe I could use a program for it, but I find that some transcripts are CRLF lines, some transcripts are just end of line with the Unix type of formatting. Some transcripts are maybe 72 columns in width, simple text file, some transcripts are the whole file is one long line, so all I convert those two Unix in single format and put everything with a width of 60 characters and I tell the TA's who go through the transcript, by the way now I notice there is Akshit Markan, he is the TA boss and he is the person I talk to and another student of Professor Atre Sannasayal, she is the other one for Professor Atre's thing, he will be for Main and Atre and Vandharkar and if I have to talk to anyone else, I have to talk to him, so any email goes to him, any email comes from him. So here also transcripts get prepared and then we edit the transcripts as required, modify them and then I pass the transcripts to MOOC lab, once the videos are okay they are also passed on to MOOC lab and then I do not know, suddenly I find that once I give them the structure, the whole structure is there on EDX for V2C within a few hours and once that is done, that is what I call here upload of the material and then I get an email, I mean a copy of an email from the MOOC lab saying, let beta testing begin and it begins and then a feedback comes saying, oh something here is not audible, that is transcript is not correct, we correct them as needed but the comfortable thing for me is there are just two email addresses, eStudio at something something and ME209x at something something, once I send it to these I do not have to worry, it gets done, that is how it should be, I worry only about thermodynamics whether the physics or the fine mensur software is there. Now when it comes to operation, the main thing is to keep track of each and every forum, at the end of every unit we will see the structure, there is a forum where you can, somebody can say something, others can respond, this is like a news group or a Facebook column or whatever, everybody is used to that and some corrections are pointed out, now corrections for example in a text or in a quiz it is possible to edit, but some corrections in a video, sometimes instead of say this is the volume axis, I say it is a temperature axis, written volume but my world is temperature, now it turns out that although it is possible to get my volume somewhere as a word and put it there, the term around time in the eStudio is of the order of 24 hours because the original one is in HD is in some raw format, editing does not take time but after that the so called rendering takes anywhere between 8 to 16 hours because it is the highest definition HD format. What goes on YouTube are very different formats and depending on your internet bandwidth I think YouTube gives the appropriate format. So for that what we do is we add a notice before that video saying in the following video at this time the instructor said this, the correct version is this and transcript has been corrected. So I had to do it at two or three places so far, in the second edition we will correct that but naturally some other errors will keep me. Remember that our recordings are teacher's speech, talk, it is a lecture, it is not a performance, so do not aim for 100% perfection, it is not an LP record which is being cut or a disc which is being burnt and sold, it is a lecture which is being recorded. So there will be slips of tongue, if you try to correct one something else will happen and we as teachers have particularly I have this habit that I cannot stop thinking even when I talk to you I keep on thinking, even when I am conscious that I am being recorded the thinking process does not stop and that is the one which leads to small errors and slips of tongue because I try to improvise and change as I speak and that is the reason for such slips of tongue and errors. So I have already said we have to delete some inappropriate comments, there is a riot act already announced. So I think about the slips that you mentioned, so the feedback that I got from students is that sometimes the slips are good, where it brings naturalness about it, otherwise I could have got into some professional production agency and done a voiceover and got the best format around but that does not give the feeling of a live lecture. So actually slips, I mean if you go to Khan Academy the guy actually writes and then he sort of he writes wrong things and he sort of you know I mean he could again done master production and made sure that all that wiping out is removed for the sake of efficiency but you want to create that atmosphere, I do not want it to be the most efficient production anyway. I want it to be naturally sounding anyway, so it is okay to make slips I think. I think I have already told you about this, provide feedback wherever appropriate to the forum, although there are individual forum at the end of every unit, one good thing I will show you, there is a common forum available which is everything is transferred at one place. So a teacher need not go to the individual units and see what is happening, a single sheet is available. We have created an intern survey just after one week just to get the background and expectations of the students. I am designing an exit survey which will be made available in the 11th or 12th week. There is going to be a final examination, we have announced that all the quizzes together will have 70% of it, the final examination will have 30% of it. Now as was mentioned yesterday there is no working out type of examination, everything is machine-evaluatable and in thermodynamics there are no essay type of questions but you know you ask a student to solve a problem, he looks at the statement, imagines a system, sketches a system diagram, looks at the process details, sketches the process as expected the process diagram, makes some assumptions, writes it out, may be a page or two of working out. There is no way this can be uploaded anywhere. So everything has to be multiple choice, match figures, true or false. So it is a diluted type of final examination but anyway we are doing it. That is why half an hour ago I said that do not give any, do not attach any significant meaning to the grade which is made available online for a new course. So what you talk about is for the EDX, I am talking about Swayam. Swayam things will be maintained. The whole idea of the Swayam as I said is even to go to a level where the grades would be recognized. So there are two types of things that we are giving, one is the audit certification. The audit certification does not require them to give any assessment but there is an honour code certification which is given by your university and that honour code certification is actually a certification of some kind of competency, not just attendance certificate. And that certification of competency should generally involve some assessment. So when we design these first cut courses, an exam should be an integral part. In fact I would think that although he accidentally decided like 70% in semester, 30% in semester and I have also followed it and we find that to be quite conducive, a weekly quiz or something like that at the end, based so many out of these and a comprehensive 30 mark single quiz at the end is not very difficult to design, 100 quizzes also you can design, the questions will have to be designed and that gives a fairly reasonable reflection of how these students are actually understanding various parts. We may suggest that you may consider institutionalizing a mid-semester exam. So you may have an end-sem exam and a mid-sem exam. Basically a mid-sem or end-sem exam is nothing but quiz questions which cover all the syllabus points which have been covered till that point in time because otherwise on a weekly basis you will only examine the student on whether he or she has learnt for that week. So that is the idea. But I would think that for the Swayam initiative, some online quizzes should be there. Also although he did not mention it, it is useful to give a whole lot of practice quizzes which are not graded but where the advantage of online forum is students get immediate feedback, if they make a mistake then they see their answer is wrong, otherwise the answer is correct and there is an explanation that is provided why this answer is correct. So there is a lot of learning when students do these practice problems. So it will be a useful idea to design some practice problems and include them. So now I will come to the actual EDX site. I have just logged in. So here you will see what is known as the dashboard. So here if I log out I will have to log in again. So this is the first window. There are number of courses for which I have registered. Now there is one course, this is ME209x thermodynamics which is my real course. Now here if you click you will go to the course information page actually since I have logged in it brings me to the same page but if you log out and try to register you will get when you click on it you will get the course announcement page and if you click on that you will get the intro video. The intro video is an advertisement actually maybe I can log out and so here you search for courses instead of all schools we will select IIT BombayX and you will find our three current courses actually now this is over and if you say learn more watch the course intro video. Now this is from where it really begins and then there is my pitch, there is only one track which is being played not the other track but anyway let us go to the actual course. The intro video is something and another thing is the graphics team made this particular emblem for the course. You have to make something like this. This is somewhere where our graphics we did not realize. Now this or something very similar to this maybe a small part of it is being used everywhere you will find whenever a video starts the initial flash screen will have this. So there is some emblem some symbol some graphic which has to be common and should be seen at the beginning of every video every graphic. So coming back to my course I will just say view course and now because I am an instructor you will see an instructor tab here and we are in now in the staff view. If I click on staff view the instructor tab will go now this is today's student view. Now let us see how a student sees. He will see to begin with the course information two parts the weekly updates and news. Now here you will see this was what was released on July 28, a day before July 29 when the course began. Say it is something about please read this first and then something about this and a link to the EDX demo course because if you have not taken any EDX course you are requested to go through the EDX demo course so you generally know your way through the website and then this was for the first week and then August 4, August 11, August 18, every week you will have some update. So week 7 update, week 8 update will be on September 15 that is next Monday. For some reason we decided EDX said that your week should typically begin either on a Tuesday or on a Thursday and typically end on a Thursday. So we decided on a Tuesday but after having worked it turns out that maybe our week should have started on a Thursday because Tuesday means we always have to work over the weekend. So that those are minor issues. Now on the right hand side you have course and now each one is typically a page a PDF document I hope it shows properly something about this course, the short thing and the choice of what to put here is yours. Now contents of this course so this is the sort of syllabus or curriculum, textbook, reference material, grading policy, something is standard EDX so we have taken it from there but here see our policy for this course is quizzes 70% final exam 30%. This is what I said grade C is 50%, grade B is 65% and grade A is 80% and tips for success is another handout, forum guidelines and collaboration guidelines are here what to say what not to say and finally after a few weeks we have provided them steam tables. This is a huge PDF file we have created this based on NIST steam tables so some legal ease nomenclature etc and then the actual table. NIST says whatever we have given on our site is open source and we have provided references to NIST and released it as BYSA and so far we have had no issues with it. Now the real thing is the course list. Now I will go to the staff view for the simple reason that I can show you what is available from the staff. By the way I should tell you registration for this course and so far CS101.1x is on even now people do register and deregister at will. So anybody who is interested can just register as a student now and just explore the site what is what. Now after this the main place where a student will be working is discourse where and here you will see week 1, week 2, week 3 these are the sections. Now if you go to a particular week for example last time I was in week 7 so it remembers where you were last time so week 7 is expanded. Now week 8th scene although it is not released week 8th scene because I am the instructor. Now the moment I say student view that instructor tab will go from here and week 8th has gone. Actually that instructor's tab should also vanish right. If I refresh it maybe it should vanish sometimes it stays no it still stays anyway but notice that the week 8th which is not yet released is not seen and also what will not be seen is whenever you go to a particular thing, a particular lecture this is the subsection here you will have some you know editing and debugging buttons which will not be seen. For example if I go to staff view you will see view unit in studio. Now studio is a replica of this where you have all editing facilities available. So let us explore now week 1. In this week 1 section when you click you will see the 3 subsections which in this course we have called lectures. Now if you go to a lecture I am here now these are the various units the first lecture has 1, 2, 3, 4 units and in each unit this introduction, text books and discussion are 3 subunits. So if I click on this here the first unit is introduction the second unit is text books the third unit is the forum discussion and if you discussion is not shown here unless you say show discussion. So first day starting thermodynamics excited first course some general stuff. You go to the second one now there is a video called engineering and thermodynamics and then there is a discussion. The moment you go to the first unit if you click on this you are in that so engineering and thermodynamics. If you start this you will notice even before starting that there is a play button the duration is from 0 to 7 minutes 24 seconds you have a choice of playing it at different speeds. A slow speaker like me for example perhaps you may be once you get used to my way of speaking 1.25 x may be okay may not be for the first viewing but for the second or third viewing if necessary you may try that or you want to be very particular and there may be a fast speaker you may even go down to 0.5 x. You can download this either a video and the transcript or both once you download it you can play back through any player that you feel like at any speed that you feel like. And now notice I think this I will go quickly whatever it said here is highlighted here thermodynamics and if you go somewhere else and the highlight will jump there. Now suppose you want to go back so let us this click here and the video will go back so these are linked to each other. The scheme is similar. This is I think an excellent facility for the student we are now trying to. Now in this there is again two units first is a video called primitives second a discussion forum here the first quiz problem 1 problem 2 a discussion each problem in a quiz is a subunit and perhaps that is a place where subunits have a very proper place. Now you go to some other week for example in week 3 we will find that the quiz is only at the end whereas in week 1 we had a quiz at the end of every lecture so was it I think in week 2. So after learning from our experience from the third week on word at least I have decided that quizzes will be only at the end this is a student's progress my progress is horrible because I am a teacher but if you go to a student's progress in some quizzes I have scored 100% some quizzes I have just played around with some quizzes I have just not attempted. But for a student this will make a lot of sense there is a calendar this is the course calendar and it is highly this is not mandatory from edx or swyam maybe we will make it mandatory in swyam but this is something which is I think very good has been appreciated by the edx people themselves. So this is every Tuesday we have a release for that particular week and for example the deadline for week 1 quizzes is 29th July to 11th October 12 days later. So even if this quiz is released instead of 29th on 1st August we will still have 11 days with you. Then we have seen this instructor type we will come to later this is the discussion type. Now this is a place where all discussions are put together now somebody says need hint for problem 1 in exercise set C3 somebody is asking about a certificate somebody is asking about change in thermal energy somebody is saying why is the thermal energy different at the same temperature but different pressures for steam answer is that steam is not an ideal gas so you do not expect that to happen. Now we as instructors have a facility to pin a discussion and that will always appear at the top for everyone not only for me. So you want somebody to look at a particular discussion in any forum pin that comes to the top. Instructor can do this is a facility only for the instructor for example here I can pin it I can edit it I can delete it but anybody can report it saying I think this is improper. Now you can even search for interpolation somebody asks interpolation what does it mean now this is a problem because this is absolutely open and people who claim to have born in 1894 have registered for this people who claim who have born in 2014 have registered for it. So somebody asking me what is interpolation is accepted but you keep quiet but somebody here somebody called Gen X EDX has provided it will keep you a link nothing wrong in this I have just left it like that I just wanted to show you what will happen and those things are there in the course info on the right hand side collaboration guidelines and forum. I would not spend time on it but you can register and see for them. These are based on generic guidelines you go to EDX 101 you will find those guidelines and because that is freeware so far as this thing is coming you take that down edit it to your requirement and use it. Now here you will notice that course information shows that there are 19,584 students registered 7960 have very clearly said I just want to play with it audit 1150 says that I will abide by the honour code that is their word 118 have want a verified certificate. Now what is verified certificate that DPP. So this is something which EDX started you remember I said EDX is a not for profit organization like ours but the regions of Harvard and MIT want them to become self sufficient later. So that is why EDX was set up now that means that EDX must have a revenue source in fact it is exactly like university either they should be funded by government or they should be funded by the students who benefit from the university or by both EDX is not funded by government or anything so they have to have their own revenue source. So far to popularize the MOOCs no company has been charging money to people now once the courses are popularized people have to start charging but people will pay money only if they find something of immediate value for that money. So one of the things that they came up with the verified certificate notion which is closest to the supervised exam kind of notion that I was mentioning. So what they do is they ask you for your photograph and ID typically a passport or whatever they record it then they require you that every time you interact with the EDX course you will interact only online and you will interact with a machine which has a webcam so their software randomly captures your photograph from that webcam and it is compared with your face comparison that is available there so that is the only verification that they are able to do basically what they are trying to say is that the exams that you have given online are given by you and they state so in this certificate but for such a certificate they charge money which ranges between $25 to $150 to $100 we have grudgingly agreed for $25 to be this they ask every part of the university which what price would you like to give now frankly our worry was like this if a large number of Indian students who will register for these courses pay the fees assuming wrongly that this could be of some direct value to them then it is a waste of resources of poor students so we avoided doing that however what we find that both on his course and on my course the number of students have registered for verified certificate are miniscule 100 200 people only across the world have agreed to pay this $25 otherwise people are comfortable using the free course and getting an honor let me use this opportunity in our case there are I think 297 out of 58,000 but let me take this opportunity to mention that you remember I talked yesterday about Professor Lagu joining us as an advisor to set up a not for profit company although we don't want to expand on it and I will talk about it later but the idea is that for the first three years the whole project is funded by the government and every activity that we do has funding support therefore there is no reason for any revenue to come from students but eventually such an effort has to become self-sustaining and for which a revenue model will have to be worked out and that is why this company is being formed which will be sort of jointly owned by a few educational institutions and guided by the entire consortium of university on what should be the revenue model itself so that that company will get into individual agreement with every partnering university on how the courses should be offered which courses should be offered they will pay instead of the government that company will pay the cost of conducting the course on the name to faculty on the name to whatever whatever and they will collect the revenue from the students on whatever is decided by so that but the numbers can be mind-boggling because India is a big country and even if you charge 100 rupees per course and imagine 10 lakh students register you can do the calculation it can go into crores so it can be a self-sustaining model because the demographic dividend of India being there are so many young people in in this particular category and course like professor for tech course introduction to computer where cc programming is taught I mean probably 30 40 lakh students may register and then then then 100 rupees will you just do the calculation yourself since we are speaking on that topic let me steal some more moments from your time but this this topic is important because any money related matter is very very critical and therefore I will spend some time day after tomorrow on discussing these issues but what I would like to state is that as far as this initiative is concerned and as far as this group and the subsequent members who will join are concerned the central government is funding all cost that are required to conduct these so as far as next three years are concerned that is okay what what will happen subsequently is only thing that and there is no revenue to be talked of right now is no revenue and even the revenue that we have suggested for the long-term model is the IIT Bombay principle says that all contents should be freely accessible so anybody who wants to audit the course no fees to be paid any interaction that means they want to raise questions on forum or ask me or something will cost some money we have suggested a charge of 100 to 300 rupees per course for students who want to get an honor course certificate and want to interact but any verified certificate which may result into recognition of the credits we have suggested an amount between 750 rupees and 1500 rupees as the cost of the fees for such a certificate I will discuss that tomorrow right now there is no talk of revenue in electronics there is something called signal to noise ratio and the revenue will be noise in this so let's stick to signal at this point of time now the second tab in the instructor dashboard is membership you can yourself enroll people for example akshit markin was enrolled as a TA and then the course staff instructor instructors are the highest level me, Atre and Bhandarkar course staff is delta below that but essentially have all the facilities of the instructors then beta testers are normal students but whom we have been packed as beta testers and the difference is week 8 today is not released but it is available to beta test otherwise they are just like students then there are discussion admins discussion moderators and discussion community these are various different levels admins and moderators admins are those who can create moderators and community moderators cannot create anything but they can take part in the discussion and delete and edit something and discussion community TAs are from among the student so after 4 weeks or a few weeks of the course you find that there are some really serious students who take part in the discussion and you would like them to participate and even moderate the discussion like delete obnoxious posts then you can create discussion community TAs I have not created anyone so far you can even unenroll a student if somebody is playing any mischief or for any particular reason you can add beta testers remove beta testers this is membership admin now student admin you can look at a student's progress page you can make correction to his evaluation in a given quiz either student by student or for the whole batch and you can send an email to a student or a group of students course specific grade adjustment can be done this is for the whole course you find that some answer obviously is not assigned as the correct value you can do it and then reassign the whole thing then data download this is the all this information reports etc analytics now see here this is information this is an important information although I have nineteen thousand five hundred students only two thousand four hundred and fifty seven were active during this eight days seven or eight days from August thirty two September six so this is about how much fifteen percent or so ten fifteen percent that is generally the statistics if you have tracked this number on a weekly basis I have seen large number and that kind of number is sort of going down or something like that it is not e to the power minus it is not one e to the power minus it but it is something x e to the power minus it's right in the first week you start with something like you know twenty five percent and then it has gone down to fifteen percent on my machine I have that graph unfortunately windows and that is a doors machine so they can talk to each other and now this is where I wish we could modify it this is some quiz and some problem in that quiz but the link is provided through this end digit some hash code how do I get this hash code oh I have to go to course where why didn't they provide me quiz three problem six if for example in this introductory I go to introductory then I go to this quiz and this staff debug info suppose I want this this particular question then I look at staff debug info and this is the code I have so I must copy it I must paste it there and then I will get the statistics for example let me see if I copy this and come out of this and go to instructor and then go to analytics and then now I know that six thousand seven hundred and fifty five students attempted that out of which some thousand two hundred got it wrong because they scored zero and some thousand five hundred got it right now if six seven five five scored why doesn't this some come up to six seven five five I don't know now this is the statistics year of birth starting from two zero one four hope fortunately I have found nobody has claimed the year of birth to be two zero one five or one six maybe there is a drop-down menu which prevents you from doing that but 1894 definitely there is one and but this is as collected by this gender distribution 1763 no data males 15,000 ladies about 2600 other now level of education this seems to be reasonable I find when I downloaded the statistics and plotted my own graph nineteen ninety three ninety four and ninety five are the most popular years of the mean age was something like 20 years 21 years most of them are you know in the second or third year of engineering but there are oldie goldies 50 60 year old who helped me out as conscious keeper small errors historical mistakes and very nice comments like me started with four truck programming or like me and him and they really turn out to be conscious they are the first ones to report any error in any quiz or anything they are also moderators when people creep about something they respond please read this please read that or something like that and it is it is so useful in fact they are like colleague teachers and I will tell you this is what I checked with Anant yesterday is exactly the same experience that every teacher has everything so you uncannily get some teachers plus some very what should I say very enthusiastic people in the forum who constantly give additional hands and material etc. for learning it's all together a different experience which cannot and does not happen in a classroom at all I've been reading something on neuroscience and what they say is old people who are worried about Parkinson's are told that you should take some courses to keep yourself active some of these locations are worried about dementia and Parkinson's the last tab here is the email tab you can send an email to yourself it's just for checking staff and instructors and to all and here you will find I said only three emails so you will notice here this is successfully sent to one test emails but this was the first email to all 15,000 then this was sent on 23 then second one was on August 25 the third one was on September 8 I think the first one was July 23 so July 23 week before the course began then July August 25 and it shifted me to a 3 and then this is half way through in somewhere if you click I could get sent email history yeah for example this was a test but then this was the first mail you are receiving this email message because you are enrolled for this this was on july 22 welcome message and if this is not your first edx course then you may skip the rest of this message if on the other end this happens to be the first edx course please register for this it's a short course and all that then here you see your next one was let's see the latest one halfway through say we are halfway through our course we are about to begin an exploration of the second law of thermodynamics and all the edx recommendation is never more than one email per we are less than that we are into our seventh week and we have sent only three now I will show you something which the instructor has to do for this no package is available so I created a spreadsheet I have been checking this is what I call the courseware main file it's a spreadsheet and this is the structure can I make it slightly bigger maybe what I will do is I will extract a week out of this print it out and recommend that it be distributed just to get how the structure and you will notice that the structure has evolved you will find initially it was all one way and now I have settled more or less on this structure you will find week 6 week 6 week 7 week 8 now here you will see this is week 7 so this is the section name so this is all for week 7 there are subsection 7.1 7.2 7.3 name of this week is there is no name it's simply week 7 the subsection names are lecture 20 introduction to the second law lecture 21 the heat engine lecture 22 temperature levels and performance parameters lecture 23 reversible processes and quiz would have been released just half an hour ago automatically right we don't have to do any action except that set it up for release before the release date and time and then here you will find that in this lecture that is the subsection 7.1 there are 1 2 3 4 units now 7.1 point 1 is simply called introduction then the second law then some historical comments in the Kelvin Plan statement now in introduction there is only one unit which is a document so they will see a printed page or a PDF file in this section there is a video and a forum again in this section this unit video and forum but you come to lecture 21 in the very first unit there are 2 videos and a forum so there are 3 subunits forum is a discussion forum where you can ask questions of what I showed you here this is a forum okay I'll show you no no no it's a although it looks like a core forum now come to this course where and you come to say let's go to the week 7 temperature levels and performance parameters now here I have temperature levels in this temperature levels 1 temperature levels 2 and a hierarchy of temperatures as 3 videos so there will be 1 2 3 and below that there is a discussion show discussion so these are the somebody has a question now this gets replicated temperature levels to this will be replicated here so I don't have to go to the individual ones I just keep track of this discussion and I know for example here what happens suppose I am a student and I have some doubts related to this discussion this particular topic then I don't have to search in the larger discussion forum again actually for example this software thermodynamic property here there is no link so you have just come here but if you come to this quiz 19b the post is about week 6 quiz 19b so you click on here and I can go there what does it pertain to so this pertains to this case can I ask a question yes in your spreadsheet I saw the partial time sums for your videos weekly time sums yes they are quite variable yes they are very very there is no there is no guideline on this actually week here itself is a week here is not exactly a week there so that's why I said don't go by the week okay these are four levels if you want you can we have started we have said week lectures and then units and subunits you could have so your time frame is entirely left to the left to you only time frame that is pertinent from the students is that if you are assigned weekly quizzes for example then you will say this weekly quiz will be starting at this point will be due at this time so people have actually almost a eight ten days portion a buffer where they can cover up something not we cannot be ten days but the quiz announcement time and that was submission time is typically ten days apart yeah I have also one question yes suppose you have planned all the lectures two months ahead and everything has been framed and you are flashing it after two months one by one and all of a sudden you find that some questions or something occurs in your mind or from the student side and you think that this is important the audience would know because that happens most of the time in the class is some question someone asked and your 15 minute goes to tell those things to clear because you find that this is relevant yes in that case provision for this year yes you have a provision for example I will show you at any stage you can go to any week and add a section or add a unit only thing is in the discussion forum or in the course update or if it is emergency by an email inform everybody that this has been added for example I think the exercises we added solution to these exercises I remember we added the solutions to these exercises after all the quizzes etc were over and informed it in the immediate following weekly up I have two questions one is based on your experience with the course for the entire course how many hours of lecture have you recorded I see in a week typically you have about four videos of 10 to 15 minutes no no it's extremely variable for example just look at this week 5 2 hours 32 minutes of videos week 6 3 hours 20 minutes of videos now week 7 1 hour 50 minutes of videos now week 8 I have not yet summed up but you can say this is roughly 25 minutes another 25 minutes 50 minutes 1 hour 50 minutes another 30 minutes so 2 over 30 minutes another 20 minutes is about almost 2 and 3 quarters of an hour and another question related to that is for example the same course which you teach here in the classroom are you able to cover all the concepts within the art that you allocate on the MOOCs platform yes this is this is more or less equivalent of that so for example we have 3 contact hours per week and this averages to 3 contact but only thing is what is a week here may not be a week out there but a typical thermo class of hours is between 38 thermo course of hours is between 38 and 40 hours of contact here also it is but I see the variation here right for us in a week we if we are meeting two times it's 3 hours I'll intervene here when you say one hour of contact do you continuously speak for one hour never please understand that one hour of contact has a whole lot of interspersed interaction which is completely removed from your video recordings the interaction happens on forum so the timing will never be exactly one-on-one matching but the material that you cover will be very simple now even in a classroom contact a teacher will vary the amount of interaction depending upon the amount of time required to explain that sense of so in one week it may speak more the other week he or she may speak less so in a way we can build it in the video based on role plays based on our experience of the questions that we have over the years there is a facility that is required where we say that if we may have a long video we may say at this point the video pauses and you are required to answer a practice question and then continue from this way now the only way we can accommodate that is we have one portion one video which does everything then we have an activity and then we have another video so you know even a five minute video five minute video with some activity in between but the point is that three contact hours in real life never means three hours of lecture so it is it is in that sense it is very so that flexibility we have it depends upon the instructor how do you plan out the oh yeah you can in fact have very few videos and have a lot of reading material but that doesn't gel well because the students are actually expecting some explanation from the teacher one thing I think I forgot to include in my slide is based on my experience of teaching these videos are actually more than what I say in class because in class before I say it some student asks a question and this becomes an answer a part of the following discussion here I know nobody is going to immediately ask me that question why should I wait till it is raised in the forum and then so I have preempted such discussion by providing that is what I was that is what I was kind of trying to build in that we can build as a part of the video that role play based on our experience that what questions generally come on this particular topic so we can have an animation kind of imagining students and let them pop up the questions and we answer that while we are explaining the concept to explain it actually when it comes to something which is discussion based you may record an actual classroom discussion we do that and provide it as a video with your commentary in between yes for example that classroom discussion may be 20 minutes that is we are kind of you are imagine imagine you have you happen to record a classroom discussion now you want to present it here you have that recording being played but you have a pause button and initially you give some two minutes pep talk saying now we are going to look at discussion you start the discussion you keep quiet half after seven minutes 20 seconds you said pause now you now you tell the current audience what happened in that discussion why you paused and now what is going to happen so it will be a discussion on that discussion we do that routinely in our teacher standing program there is one extra precaution that you have to take yeah technically any student who participates in the interaction and raises a question that question is that students intellectual property is a very small but technical issues of what we do is whenever we have discussion we have done this with teachers training program all participating teachers have to give a written undertaking that whatever they have spoken or whatever they have said is released under creative commons open source so that a participating student does not sue you up later for IP violation we go to that extent of safeguarding and ensuring that IP is clean I have another question the training which is required for the support staff the TA staff would we be getting some help in that regard how would they be trained because we would not possibly have the competency to understand all the technical aspect of it so is there some thought which has gone behind the best the best example of a good TA because we see you have an excellent support staff over here when did you join this institute as a student 2010 2010 in 2011 July December he was a student in my ME 2009 I restricted my to only those who have done well that means the top grade in that he and another Bansal Shah where the pair started with me Bansal Shah left after four years and he has helped me with the is it a part of your curriculum that they are required to do because we don't have our students helping us in this regard come m tech student that's why we cannot ask our PGP regular MBA students who are already sleeping for average four hours in a day with the kind of load that they have to help us in this that means they still have four hours a day to sleep that's it I will tell you what you should do because there are for example there are requirements of tears that tears are not paid by the Institute for this project activity we just circulated a notice amongst all students of the Institute saying we require additional tears for the following transcript work number one quiz setting number two and discussion for a monetary and we said we shall pay this much honorarium per month the work required will be 8 to 10 hours a week and the work has to be done without jeopardizing your economy I got 114 actually proper matching people for the different things are you try this out in your university 8000 to 10,000 rupees a month is a reasonable incentive for good students is a reasonable incentive if it doesn't work very sorry then like old times when we had no tears there used to be when I used to teach CS 101 there will be 10 faculty colleagues who are my course associates including my head and my own guru that works in I call ten of them will have to slog for every tutorial there's no choice so you do work with whatever is available but it is possible to incentivize graduate students postage students even if they are self-paying or they are not paid anything they can be incentivized and amongst them please understand that while you may need a team of six or eight you need one or two people like him and one or two people you can always find if you can't there's some problem in hiring students at your place no I don't this this system works at least in all I am so I know they seem to work about Dholakya tells me it works perfectly well in I am amdabad is your place also it was so it should work in any place but the point is we have never tried it perhaps teaching assistants for tutorials we invite them yeah but we are already if we need about 16 tutors for a course we hardly get applications for 12 or 13 and then we have to take them all and lower the criteria for eligibility at times because that's the but that will always happen you will not necessarily always get a larger number of people if your institution is small but for a university it should not be a problem can you guess how many classes I'll be taking per week in the university system I am just talking 16 hours per week okay and the students miss I am very happy that this guy is here the quality of students are not as good as the IITs are there because most of our good students who are in the BSE or MSE they go to the highest situation so we are flooded with the students who are not properly trained so I am you are fortunate enough that you are having it is like him we may not have that is the situation so again means as you said that you may get one or two but you cannot get a team of 15 or 12 which will be of the equivalent like this there used to be an observation similar to this when I was discussing for example with professors of Stanford and MIT and I used to say that look all our best students are working as your graduate assistants and teaching assistants where we get students who are not trained in the IIT system and yet our system is able to provide good training using these days most of our PhD students and are not our own undergraduates and yet they do a wonderful job not all of them I would submit that what you say that you see I will like to correct you they're not bad students they are students who have not been adequately trained but that's okay if they are bright enough they will live up to the expectation select the best amongst them you see the best students are not necessarily those who belong only to the top institution I have traveled personally as I said for one year just identifying people in 67 small engineering colleges where there is no record of great achievements by anybody I found six to eight students at every place throughout a day long discussion whom I would love to have as my my students tonight I think it is just that we do not have much faith in them because of this lax filtering through which they come but put faith in them and you will always find some and I agree with you you may not find 10 or 12 people doesn't matter run the program with four people but please note that just as this will become a forerunner for many others to join similarly this would become a forerunner for many other students also to volunteer first time there will be a problem definitely but I refuse to accept that you will not be able to find at least one or two lead students who may not be good in their preparation then but when they join with you after all they're working with you and you said 16 hours of time that you have to spend you are quoting university rules as they exist it once again it has been suggested that the people who participated in the MOOCs offering this work has to be regarded as part of their duty and you have to do some mapping now this is a call each vice-sensor will have to take but for your information when these activities started here we may not have to teach 16 hours a week but our teaching hours do not reflect our load and those of us including him when we started this we were not permitted a single relaxation in our normal duties we still did it that is how you kick start the process once the process becomes part of your normal life the institution the university will recognize that and will allocate some additional so for example last year I was given a semester off to kick start this national MOOCs program but in all previous semesters I was to take my normal load which is the now whatever is the normal teaching load and do this as an additional interesting thing she as I was telling somewhere unless the initial participants from your universities have what I described in IIT as a characteristic namely your screw must be half loose somewhere unless that is there there is not enough passion and unless there is enough passion you cannot kick start this successful if you are looking for well-framed rules well-framed procedures well-framed acknowledgement of the load all that will come but that will not if we wait for that to happen and then start will never stop so while I agree with you that these are the restrictions we have to find a way out of these restrictions only and initial set of people that is what I'm looking forward to all of you that you will actually initiate that that you will log out chabi going back to people saying are a car can this is the only way to happen but eventually the universities will have to recognize we'll have to factor this into the load if I don't get tears like this I should have provision to employ a staff member who might have passed out from my my my institute last year and he might be waiting for a job let us say he has been selected but not been up not joined the company is available for three months painful salary for a month employing for three months use him as TA we have done that so there are multiple innovative ways of finding out assistance and these numbers are not sacrosan when we say 10 or 12 even in your course when you say I need 16 where does this number 16 come from yeah I'm sure that I can I mean we have we face the same problem but we I am teaching 575 students right now as we speak the number of tears that I needed as per the institute norms itself was some number the number of tears I got was much less and yet the course is running well so you see we are also able to manage things in whatever resources we get and at least when we kickstart this activity that is the modest operandi that we have to keep in mind of course we get everything that we need perhaps the efforts will be required less on our but otherwise that is what and I think minimal resources for doing a course well you will always in fact that is that is the challenge that okay so finally other part of this is this is the final structure but before that this is my recording log so for example the second law and spending three weeks on second law and the number of video snippets grow from 101 to 152 so this is week 7 up to 116 which is already live week 8 which is ready I mean we can make it live today if we want and here you will see the name of the snippet this is the serial number this is just for indexing purpose the duration SOK means seems okay later on you will see that for week 9 edit 1 means the first editing request has gone the cumulative time this is the individual time and then transcript ready yes or no transcript okay yes or no yesterday night or today morning I have passed on this is a slightly older one so I have reviewed everything up to 152 and I think already gone for creating transcript up to that I don't worry in today's Friday by Saturday or Sunday there will be an attachment saying these are the transcript all I go through is just browse through them the long lines etc but but but I do almost automated email goes to Akshit Markham saying these are the transcripts please get them checked then a day or two later the transcripts come to me and then I okay them they go back to them with the structure for that week and then yes sir you showed the log for your video recordings this is the one right so now I mean your case that times are typically 6 to 12 minutes something like that 6 to 12 minutes or something like that now there might be people who you know don't accept that it should be restricted to 15 minutes or whatever and might want to go longer could we have a provision where either the instructor or the student can add bookmarks so the instructor says that okay I mean if you don't want to really continue till the 29th minute at 11th minute there's a logical bookmark where one concept is covered or in some some manner and there's another bookmark at 27 minute which you could use so that if I if a student wants to pause and reflect on something there's a already some kind of a hint for him where to pause see that is all all thing is possible even in the current the edx structure which is inherited to begin with by spym you go to a video you go away from it any time you go to that video it will have passed there it keeps track of all your videos you don't have to put a bookmark now when you say that an hour of video somebody may want I think he or she will go away from that idea because 10 minutes or something you pause either for breath or for a sip of water or for whatever reason or you may feel like sneezing or you may want to go to the toilet let it be there are subunits available so you would find that it's very difficult to record for more than 10 I completely agree with that but otherwise there are courses in edx where the videos are as long as an hour and 20 minutes in fact the YouTube restriction of 15 minutes can be very easily by sending a request to YouTube saying you would like to record videos of longer than 15 minutes YouTube will permit that all NPTEL videos which are there on videos are much longer they are actually regular recording those lectures but this 15 minute is suggested as a useful bound based on the feedback that we have received from global statistics the global statistics shows that duration of the video versus the duration of the number of people who have watched that video and that is whether you like it or not that clearly shows that the attention span of a viewer even of a serious course average there are occasions when they will say the average is about 7 to 8 it tallies perfectly with the media statistics which shows that a TV show even an interesting commercial show the average attention span is about seven and a half minutes that is exactly when you get a commercial break now that is universal it does not apply to individuals no statistics applies to individuals just as it does not apply to individual viewers it does not apply to individual speakers now if you have a great orator speaking I mean there could be two-hour lecture which people will watch without any problem but that cannot be the general rule so that is why this is these are all suggestive things please please feel free and I would think that we should advise the concerned teachers about the statistics and this thing but they should do best as they do okay whatever what they think in fact there is an edx course on computer programming in which absolutely no redesigning reworking has been done that teachers lectures of approximately 1 and 1 hour 20 minutes to 1 hour 30 minutes including all discussions have simply been made available so that way I could have simply said that my 2009 lectures in ME 2009 are simply available they could have been done but I didn't want them that way actually I considered I was almost under pressure we signed up with edx in July or August of 2013 and professor dbp came and what the earliest you can offer a thermo course then I just thought over and said that look if you just tell me that it has to be done within 20 days I have my old recording I just have to you know it would be then a discussion on a discussion I would be there I would but I would just record something in the beginning and end remember the old humlogh Ashok Kumar used to come in the beginning and at the end so something like that I would cut them because in between there are places where somebody has asked a question or I have stopped for drinking water and things like that there are natural breaks there every 15-20 minutes so I could have come introduce something then that video recording then said something maybe inserted some chota thing I could have done it in you know three to four weeks to begin with of course not everything the first week would have been ready within three weeks but we didn't do that because we didn't feel like doing it that I have one question or such so when you this is all fine for edx but when you go from edx to swam where the same lectures are also available in Hindi and Tamil one more process step will come right I mean they will be started okay so voice over so how will the Hindi will happen you know voice over yes and there will be other experts and who will who will speak what is what is planned is like this so they take a video of mine the transcript is converted the transcript is translated come transliterated in Hindi and somebody gives a voice over that audio is superposed and the transcript in Hindi is superposed I mean replace replaces transcript in English and then yes but then my involvement is negligible the as far as I know the current level of my involvement has been I from my experience I just you know did some filtering on that my transcripts and created a list of I think 200 words which I don't want to be translated thermodynamics temperature energy those will be transliterated so thermodynamics will be written there more more all that in Devanagiri or whatever is the script of that language currently it's Hindi so it is Devanagiri and after that the first few videos have been shown to me whether the translated version looks okay or not I gave some feedback I said Ushma gati ki nahi chalega the thermodynamics see chaiye initially they used the words Ganeet and Vidyan which I thought I was under the impression that Ganeet is Ganeet in all Indian languages but yesterday somebody told me that in Tamil Ganeet is not Ganeet so I think mathematics will have to remain mathematics and also point that Dr. Lagu spoke about the translated video doesn't have to be released at the same time that will be released later so you can take time for the translated video to come that's a different course possibly that's a management disease so just one point because I think it's relevant we have people from CEC here you also had your lecture on NPTEL which was an hour long roughly 55 minutes actually that was it was a actual classroom lecture yeah 2009 July December you can go through the increase and the lecture slots were 1 hour 25 minutes and after editing you know bold erasure and all those things have been edited out and typical video is between 1 hour and 10 to 1 hour and 20 minutes yeah so why I'm talking about this is because 29 videos for you had a lot of discussion in our meetings at the ministry so far it's been involved also where there's there's a set of people who say that there are 6,000 hours of lectures on NPTEL and these guys have some 5 or 6,000 hours or something else see so why can't we chunk it into 10 minute things and you know Prasafat again I have been fighting this battle in fact we did a lot of pedagogical research also on this that it is not you can't just chunk a 1 hour video into 10 minute slots because it doesn't make any sense to the learner so it so the 10 minute is actually quite relevant from the point of view of attention span and all of those things and the way that we are setting it up here with the quizzes and interaction forum everything in between so I think maybe you can spend some time just explaining especially for the benefit of CC who's actually sitting here and also one more thing Prasafat CC has a particularly funny issue in the sense that they are not a university so their lectures are actually created by faculty from different universities some of whom are sitting here themselves because for example Jamia has been cooperating and I think ignore who F flu yeah so there are so their issue is do they do the work or does the university do the work so that is something that you would have to actually look at no I don't know the structure of CC nor I am aware of the links between CC and others but one thing is I ask any teacher suppose you are given a topic and a level of discussion of that topic and you are given one hour you will use it in a particular way then you are told that look I'll give you one hour but fifteen minutes today fifteen minutes tomorrow fifteen minutes day after tomorrow and fifteen minutes day after tomorrow you will you will spend some time in thinking and redoing it and I'll ask ourselves a question you know why do TV serials are serials why twenty minutes a day and thirteen episodes day after day or week after week why not a movie why are serials more popular than movies the reason is attention span and I think if a thermo course for example has to be converted from the lecture format of fifty five minutes to snippet format of approximately ten plus or minus three four minutes it better be done by a thermo teacher he knows best yes I want to submit a point related to CC content we at MCRC are also making courses for BMS communication program under CC the key difference here is CC content was for two purpose two purposes rather one was for broadcast medium it was going on vias channel and the video composition short composition for that is entirely different what we want on computer screen long shots for example I saw some MOOC programs so the faculty member very close up face is shown on the screen maybe four inch or ten inch screen for CC programs this was entirely different 40 inch or 15 inch was our device on which we were consuming the content so to customize that content exactly for MOOC program is very difficult we'll have to go through the entire content and see which part of that content is suitable for this kind of program the second part of CC content is they use it for Sakshath portal for what Sakshath they have a portal so the content is basically on a web-based server more on e-learning or self-learning kind of content is there but that that content also originates from the TV content where the focus was broadcast medium that has been customized customized for e-portal so to fit those content directly into MOOCs is very very difficult what I suggest is a minimal part from that content can be used here most of it won't be useful here in MOOCs because this is kind of a screen the content will remain the same it is presentation presentation yeah because it has been shot in an entirely different format for example it is it has a long shot yeah my point is to customize it just to show it on a small screen may not look that appealing so one is to reduce the duration another is the composition of this shot I would like I would like to add two more points to what you are saying and I would also like to mention another possible first of all the there is a very fundamental difference in the approach for content creation for these and NPTEL efforts and what we are trying here we are not talking of content we are talking a course a course why why weeks for example there's no concept of weeks in any such content the 40 hours of recorded lectures in the entire thing and they are to be chosen and viewed by the viewer as per one's own wish list whereas here we want a discipline by every viewer to follow a certain pattern with some activities with some action with some quizzes so there is a just as there is a difference between a course and content there is a difference between video recordings prepared primarily as content however great and good quality they are they cannot fit into a course directly in fact if the same teacher is teaching that course again that teacher will vary the contents and that variation is not possible in fixed contents okay that is why second what prevents us by saying in saying that this is my MOOCs course designed as per the MOOCs methodology as appears to have been accepted elsewhere but for every week I will provide additional learning material don't we do that there is no need to restrict our additional material to be only text material we provide wiki examples we can provide additional videos please listen to these videos they additionally explain this concept even there you have to judiciously choose a video recording lecture which actually covers that particular topic and you may have to indicate watch this video from 1 hour 10 minutes to 1 hour 15 minutes some such thing so it is in that context existing video content could be used but as independent contents to be actually retrofitted into MOOCs I would agree with Professor Kasim that that would not be a very fair thing to do if you look at very fundamental difference that here we are talking about a course and not about recorded contents I just wanted to add what what we meant when we were saying this we were not talking about retrofitting anything but what we were trying to tell you that in India most of the internet is accessed by other screens then computer screen it is tablets and hand-held devices mobile devices which is a different very small screen when we are designing and thinking of a ratio on this idea this is a very good nice time to start thinking of a small screen as well as far as the content in concerned and because that would be the beginning of something new and this is very easy to implement implement if we give that thought anywhere that was sir I was talking Dr. Burma CC has two type of content one is the state video lecture size we do what Professor Kasim is saying that why developed for the television broadcast then 2011 onwards under enemy ICB started producing e content e content I find it has almost 80 percent of the elements as we are discussing in the MOOCs however the design format was different it was for e-learning on the web so content is ready in 8,500 modules are ready we have completed eight subjects and this December we are going to complete total 29 subjects under phase one problem at CC that university so we don't have the faculty but the courses has been designed by the lead faculty in the respective host universities and we are in the discussion process with the host universities so right now we have compiled some 10 courses with the consent of the lead university lead faculty in the university so it can be a sort of thing that the faculty can be trained so he can take up the courses using the existing content because the already content is ready so that is that is the proposal CC was putting actually thank you sir for the past two three months I have been looking after this e content materials at AJK MCR since I'm getting no I getting to I got a chance to look at all the programs which are made to some extent and after when I came to know that we are launching this and then I'm also looking at what I understood that I agree with Professor Causing and Professor Partick because see even in the present situation that the courses which we made the fast save BA program the curriculum it's a curriculum based program that we made and say it is there is I mean the dynamic nature of mass communication keeping in mind say communication models or theories in the context of convergence a social media I need to redefine I need to I mean it's very dynamic it's changing every day so content which is made this program is now we are completing in the next month three years are over phase one is over say introduction to communication is made three years back so now how dynamic this is the kind of dynamic nature the MOOCs is having so I need to update I mean does the facility this facility only can be you know opted with the making a new you know these clips and other things so that is why this limitation is there so there is a rich content we made so this dynamic nature of updating with the existing communication you know framework it may not be possible this is my opinion yes I want to add one more point after we committed for two courses on MOOCs we went back and examined what kind of content we have made for CC so it was being made as per some slivers prescribed by UGC that we found out that slivers was designed in 2002 so this doesn't match with what we proposed to do now and what we have been doing over the years a lot of customization changes modification additions or deletions would be required that's what I wanted to do yeah so let me let me have a hasten to add that the courses that you have identified and by courses of course now I hope we understand that we mean subject or paper we're not talking about a B program or something which you have identified in a hurry if after this interaction and after this orientation if you feel that you can do perhaps a better job with other some other subjects or something please do feel free we have not made any announcement yet you have merely indicated something to us and us means who are we actually let me say I am a representative of this collective body who speaks with the ministry and tries to implement it so as your representative I would never like to do anything which is not completely and clearly acceptable to every component of the body so please please feel free to go back reexamine the courses that you are committed it is it is quite possible that initially you might have thought of something as you are saying and this dilemma might be faced by other colleagues as well absolutely no problem in fact you start examining it right now in fact between today tomorrow and day after go back to your other colleagues on phone or email and say we would like this consideration and on Monday we would like this decision the only problem is we have limited time this limited time we should not go by a thing that just because you have said this once it's okay let me although I would not expect that to happen but suppose 17th you declare something to me and on 21st let us say out of these 14 universities and 20 courses are collected one university says boss I made this mistake out of these two courses I need to change this one course can you accommodate that can we not do that on an email so but only thing why we put all these date restrictions last date etcetera you all know because there is a minimal time required to handle all the details properly ensure that they are correctly reflected on the site etcetera you're already seeing what you are currently looking at swam side how many gaps are there that is because we were forced to give you an older version which is still underdeveloped then your version is going on and there is a minimal time which it takes to put everything properly so please feel free to go back examine thing ideally you should complete everything by 17th and submit all the details which are required we'll consider whether 17th can be made into 18th but there are certain deadlines which we cannot