 Good afternoon almost good evening ladies and gentlemen. My name is Sushant Balakruthirao. I'm the senior director responsible for this very Dynamic and exciting region which about which we're going to hear shortly and before I pass over to Farid to share this exciting panel I just wanted to share one very small anecdote with you When I started at the World Economic Forum nine years ago as part of a leadership program There's a person on the stage who agreed. I don't know why to serve as my my mentor and at that time He told me I'm a person who believed in ASEAN long before ASEAN believed in itself And he made it his goal to make sure that I became a believer and that I also got the forum to believe in this region and Since that time over the years We have done some very exciting things We have taken our annual regional summit that takes place every May or June to countries like Vietnam Indonesia Thailand and most recently to Myanmar Which this year will be chairing ASEAN And I think it shows How much we now believe in ASEAN it's here in a very strong way and we're very excited That these discussion will all be connected to the summit that will for the first time be held in the Philippines On May 21st of the 23rd And we have the special envoy President Aquino here with us to speak to that as well So with that in mind a welcome to our panel and thank you very much for this My pleasure, I don't think I need that unless Thank you all for being here. This is I think we were going to try to do with this panelist to try and make it as substantive and interactive No prepared statements. No no formalism. There's no reporting press allowed in the room So I hope you will all take that as an opportunity to to really get into some of the some of the questions and issues You know the great puzzle When looking at Asia is this if you will look at international relations and you say to yourself When was the last time you saw a group of countries? They were close to one another Growing very fast all growing at rates of three four five percent That had different kinds of political regimes that had historical problems with one another That had histories of conflict with one another Some unresolved border issues or sovereignty issues But very vigorous economic growth That place would have been Europe in 19 the 19th century and What you had was a hundred and fifty years of war almost continuous war So the question is why is Europe's past not going to be Asia's future as You have all these Asian countries Growing fast with military budgets growing very fast many major Asian countries are spending 10 10% plus Increases in their defense budget year-on-year They have different political regimes. They have different Economic systems in some cases. They certainly have border issues. They certainly have sovereignty issues If you look at Europe today What made Europe overcome its past was the memory of World War one and two the Extraordinary of reconciliation the France and Germany went through and The European Union which created economic interdependence Asian countries have no history of World War one and World War two to overcome in that in that sense They were not the deep destructive wars They do not have the great reconciliation that France and Germany went through unless I have missed something in the Japanese-Chinese Relationship in the last few weeks. In fact, you could argue that Japan and China stand in stark contrast To the reconciliation that the France and Germany went through So what is left is the economic interdependence that has the possibility to bind Asia together and to make it So unthinkable and expensive and unnecessary to have conflict remember nobody wants conflict Nobody in Europe wanted conflict in 1914 The point is if you create a system where a series of unintended effects can trigger political tensions Which then make it difficult for countries to back down? That has consequences I mean if you look at what happens we have happened in the Senkaku or the Alu Islands a Few years ago. You can see that process one ship One one ship captain takes a boat in the wrong direction Somebody arrests him somebody then demands he be released and then that triggers a series of unintended consequences So that's the ultimate prize of what what we're talking about which is how can ASEAN be Made into something that is strong knitted together woven together and has some of that Prophylactic effect that the European Union has had in making war So unthinkable, I mean it's now unthinkable that France and Germany would go to war But remember in 1945 France and Germany had gone to war three times in the preceding 70 years So These things can change very quickly for the better or worse. I Want to start by asking who so tain the You know cabinet minister, but also works very closely with the president a Question about ASEAN's role in this respect My friend Kishore Mahbubani has often argued that ASEAN Managed to have a heroic Success that we don't talk enough about in the way in which it was able to help integrate Myanmar and And his argument is that the Americans you sticks Sanctions punishments of all kinds threats But that ASEAN approached it very differently with Myanmar and I want you to tell us sir Do you agree with this? What was the role of ASEAN? How did you think about this process as you went through this? Extraordinary and still ongoing reform process that is taking place in Myanmar So, thank you. Thank you for audience here So for that that question concerns So you already know that the ASEAN since 1967 doing the the as a model model of the You know regional cooperation. It's very patient and understand Asian culture That's why we move as an ASEAN member and now you can see that reform is going on not like Western country aspect as in between ASEAN's they understand what Myanmar's culture and how to you know re-engaged and doing what doing as the member What should call the quality members in the ASEAN group? That's that this type of the the model is the our you can see that that is the cooperation with a cooperation a coordination in the members group and also they can weaken It will be shaped shape our ASEAN's and within our destiny and overcome future challenges ahead That's the way we got the benefit from the joining the ASEAN and we thank you for the ASEAN other members Understand Myanmar. That's the way we are moving ahead and now You know that we we can do we've got a chance to do the ASEAN chairmanship now absolutely Anthony Fernandez, let me ask you When you look at this issue from the perspective of a private sector person you Do you see the introduction of you know of Myanmar? Do you see this is expansion of ASEAN in a sense as something that? Creates a larger market creates larger opportunities immediately or I mean you know you can you can't have too long-term a vision in business Because you need to make money in the short term well without a doubt Myanmar inclusion into ASEAN is a benefit and we at Air Asia for instance is taking advantage of it straight away We already have nine flights a day Into Myanmar Which was as soon as the country opened up from where from Bangkok and from Kuala Lumpur? So the market by the inclusion of Myanmar has made ASEAN even bigger Now we're reaching size of 700 million people as I always say time and time again Asia is not just about China and India. There's a phenomenal market in Southeast Asia named ASEAN which has 700 million people and a fantastic consumption market out there Which we have been able to take advantage of sketch out for us the size of them. Are they the Growth rates in the market. What is the most exciting thing happening when you because you're in a sense an interesting barometer of What's what's hot? What's growing? Where are you seeing greatest growth? Where have you seen some slowdowns? Well, really consumption, you know, everyone will the buzzword is emerging markets is bad place to be Etc. Etc. But I don't see any of it because the middle class is growing rapidly the power to consume is immense and you have to look at our example. I started this airline 12 years ago with two planes First year 12 years ago. We had 200,000 passengers Over the last 12 years we've grown to 150 planes and now we're carrying 50 million passengers The majority of those passengers come from within ASEAN and we've created a lot of ASEAN connectivity and created an ASEAN tourism product as well And I see it throughout some of my other businesses as well people Want to be mobile people want to consume they want mobile phones Etc. And so I see the the hot the exciting things as consumption anything in a consumption mode the middle class is growing as a young population and We're living example in a very tough business the airline business because it's so regulated Which means it's easier for the other consumer products And do you feel you have pricing power to be? Profitable but and by that I mean do you have consumers who can pay enough to make this a viable proposition? Yeah, we're a low-cost airline We we survive on bringing a new market. We haven't been interested in cannibalizing anyone else's market my argument to all the governments is Give us airports that are cheap. We will stimulate a new market the 50 million passengers that we have brought is a completely new market and We have used pricing power classic economic theory of reducing fair and increasing the market Gregory Domingo, let me ask you how you view this as an established member of ASEAN does the increased Size and and commitment to us and does it do anything for you? I mean, you know, one of the things I wonder about sometimes is ASEAN ministers they spend all that time meeting with one another I mean, there's more You know ministerial ASEAN meetings held at golf courses in in Southeast Asia Then I think any hopefully they're all flying on Air Asia. Yeah They should be but my guess is they're flying Singapore Airlines first class Hope that changes after today But what does it do for you? What is it? What is the benefit to a country like the Philippines? well, right now if you look at this that's statistics in terms of let's say investments and in terms of trade the bulk of trade by ASEAN is really with outside parties talking about trade with Japan trade with China trade with the United States trade with the EU and Very little right now. It's really intra-ASEAN trade But but so the value right now from an ASEAN perspective is really the fact that as a group We can negotiate better agreements with this big parties Because if the Philippines were to negotiate let's say by itself a free trade agreement with a big Global economic power We'd get probably the short end of the stick But with ASEAN as a group negotiating with the big powers Then we get a better deal and as a result of that you'll see that the growth of trade and investments for Most of the ASEAN countries have really grown leaps and bounds since the creation of ASEAN Chains really you're you're sitting in the largest, you know the largest pool of people the extraordinary emerging market Indonesia that has managed to To stabilize itself if I think back to now, you know the days after 9-11 after the Bali bombing What people were concerned about with Indonesia was first it was going to fall apart Then it was going to be succumbing to jihadi, you know movements And what you have instead is a pretty stable country with a solid government some reform I would guess you'd say not enough What is the what is the potential for Indonesia with ASEAN because big countries often the least interested in trade Because they have a large internal market yes, I come from a business background and We have seen how over the last 50 years so much wealth have been created because of the shift of the production base from the United States to Japan to the four Tigers and in the last 20 years to the Asian economies the other Asian developing economies and I think the potential that ASEAN can generate with cross ASEAN trade and investments would be very substantial So our group we've been we're based in Jakarta, but we are now in nine countries and we have always Thought that we must expand all over Asia and I think ASEAN since 1967 has done a very good job to create a sense of Harmony and peace and so on so that countries like Vietnam and Cambodia and now Myanmar can come into the fold and become a stronger part of the whole pie We are particularly Excited about Myanmar because now they've got 60 million people But probably about 60 billion dollars of the of GDP but with the human resources and Natural resources in the next 10 years 15 years They could be 10 times bigger. So we're quite excited about it. Indonesia has always played the The leadership role within ASEAN and that has helped because with that kind of positioning Our government is always thinking also about not just Indonesia, but beyond Indonesia into the region So that has also helped the business environment Fundman been Vietnam occupies a very important and very strategic position in ASEAN Gregory Domingo talked about how in ASEAN one of the benefits of ASEAN is that you can negotiate Collectively rather than individually And I know I think there's one country and one issue on or I see a set of issues on which this has been a particularly interesting dynamic The Chinese have generally speaking wanted to negotiate with each of you individually And you have by and large resisted that and said no We we want multilateral negotiations where you are dealing with us collectively Do you think you will be able to continue that policy? Because I know From being in Beijing two or three weeks ago that the Chinese certainly would very much as they put it They would very much appreciate if they could have more bilateral conversations with countries like Vietnam. I Think your question is very tough Now to answer your questions I had to come back to the principles of ASEAN What factors make ASEAN strong and what factors Build the role of ASEAN I Think there are two there are many factors and one of the very important factor is that the unity of ASEAN and the centrality role of ASEAN Why we say centrality role? Because we see in ASEAN that several mechanism for example ASEAN itself ASEAN with its dialogue partners For example the ASEAN region of forum that's on security issue and ASEAN Or we can say the East Asia Summit ASEAN and plus now the members of the East Asia Summit about 18 members and Now we already established the ADMM Meaning ASEAN Defense Ministerium meeting plus with the dialogue partners In all these mechanism ASEAN plays centrality role So coming back to your question ASEAN as a grouping as Domingo say we are strong if we negotiate As a group now with China we are conducting the consultations on the Code of conduct coming from the previous one the DOC the declarations on the Conducts of parties in South China Sea and That is also between ASEAN and China and Now we come to the negotiation or consultations then negotiations with China on the code of conduct So this is the ASEAN group with China Yeah, and For example, South China Sea It's South China Sea has three dimensions one dimension is that peace and stability in the region the second issue is that That is navigation Concerning to all countries around the world and the third issue is the dispute over some Areas in South China Sea and the first two dimensions are related to all Members of ASEAN and to its dialogue partners so to maintain stability we need a negotiation or Negotiation between ASEAN China For the dispute That is if there is a dispute between Vietnam and China, that's a bilateral negotiation but for the spoutly islands It has more than one countries to claim sovereignty over the spoutly islands So they need Concerned parties to negotiate Gregory you have your country has had its own recent Experience with China where the Chinese have decided a Very clever strategy. It seems to me of saying we're going to ease off on all these issues where we have been Rattling our neighbors We're going to try to have goodwill we're going to Be more cooperative Except we're going to signal that if you get too far out of line We're going to punish you and the one country they have chosen for that. It seems to me is the Philippines They essentially cancel the visit of your of your leader What is going on explain to us Now I'm a trade minister. I'm gonna talk about foreign affairs, right? I Hope the foreign affairs people in my country don't talk about trade policy Well Short answer. I don't want to really speak too much about an area that is not under me but basically the the Philippine position is we want to be friendly to all parties and in the case of such a dispute wherein Dispute is not bilateral Within many parties and are involved We prefer that it be done through legal means and so that's why we've filed with it close the International Tribunal on the law of the seas Regarding that claim so we'd like We're hoping that China participates in that resolution And do you do you see any mechanism for ASEAN in this any role for ASEAN? It's possible, but ASEAN has to choose to do it although not not all parties in ASEAN are involved in this this Let me ask about one other play a role that ASEAN can play which is in liberalization and promoting reform So then do you feel that you are trying to do reforms in Myanmar is ASEAN, you know, what are the biggest obstacles you face and how can our ASEAN help? Sir for the reform concerns Most of the all the ASEAN members gave assistance wherever they can So that's why within the two and a half years or three years. We move Or what we are not expecting the speed is too fast, but we are happy to do that So that with the assistance of all these members state that they want to give Assistant and what I mean is the resource allocation and you know Helping each other for example sharing food sharing fuel sharing Technologies such kind of things what we need You're very welcome to do at that moment all the members state like Indonesia Malaysia Singapore of Vietnam all these things they give assistant in the capacity building in Myanmar That is the most important challenges in Myanmar From the bin if I can ask you now that I ask Gregory about Foreign policy, I'm gonna ask you about economic reform Ten years ago people used to always tell me Vietnam is the next China They're doing the same thing special export zones workforces very motivated. They work very hard Nobody says that anymore. There is a feeling that a Reform process that had just seemed like it was going underway in Vietnam Didn't quite go forward and I know things have gotten better in the last year or two But tell us what you think the difficulty of that process is and where could we know how could there be assistance in that process? Again, you put me on the wrong foot I Think that we have undergone the economic reform the reform in general for more than 20 years And we have gained successes in in this reform and now to the to the new stage we focus on the Restructuring of the economy Before our growth Based on the we call the capital intensive and labor intensive Investment and now we try to Go to the knowledge page economy to restruct We structure our economy in a way that we can have more efficient Investment and that's that is the way forward. We have the three breakthroughs in in our Reform one it is the restructure of the economy the second one is we focus on the human resources and the third one is we focus on the infrastructure Building so those are the main tasks for us the head James when you look at the situation in Indonesia What do you think with the challenges and do you think that the election could help resolve them? We're actually a very extraordinary moment in the emerging markets There are going to be I think what six elections and basically all the major emerging markets are having elections this year India Indonesia Brazil South Africa Colombia is an extraordinary situation and what Historically has always happened is the first six or eight months after an election are usually good for the economy because generally Political parties pander the the year before the election the year after the election the ruling party feels as its Opportunity to to make some of the hard changes. Do you think that will happen, especially if this governor wins? actually the The election this year the legislative and the presidential election Actually reasons for us to be optimistic because since 1998 we've had so many Provincial regional and national elections and they've all gone very smoothly And so it is actually a celebration of democracy in Indonesia and that is the kind of democracy that has brought Indonesia today to be a global economy Just about a one trillion dollars economy and so we think that this election will go very smoothly We think that it will provide a stronger foundation to take advantage of more reforms So that the you know, we don't get caught in the middle income trap That there'll be more breakthroughs coming up. We are very hopeful that New newer faces and younger faces will come out So we are quite excited about it and I think you were talking about reforms. I think from the business community I think we need to have a measured Approach not only thinking about having trade packs with you know, China and Japan and all these other countries I think there should be more reforms in the individual countries I think that's that's still the the biggest problems that business people are facing what kind of reforms Would you like to see in Indonesia? I think Fundamentally philosophically is that whole idea that the solution of all of a society's problem whether it's economic problems social Education healthcare and so on is not bigger government and more regulations But that empowering of the of the of the marketplace empowering of the people and I think this philosophical Idea that it's not the government that's going to make things happen This needs to have a basic mindset change Because once they think that it is the government that can provide all the solutions. They'll be just more and more regulations And so we are in eight countries if you ask many business people our biggest Concerns are regulations and what the government will do to block what we trying to do Tony Fernandez to speak to this issue because it strikes me looking at your career that you went from one of the most Unregulated industries in the world to one of the most regulated. I mean you used to be the head of Warner music, right? I mean music it strikes me as you're almost total free for all Which is why an abster could come in and essentially steal your your music and nobody seemed to mine Which is why I left which is now And now you've gone to a situation where you know, you have this very strange industry where I mean I look at South Asia where I grew up You know it how can you be profitable as an air private airline when the state of India government of India has not just one But two airlines Pakistan has a state airline Bangladesh has a state airline Nepal has a state airline You know in that and they keep all the the the key landing slots and the key places and airports So how do you operate in this world? Well, you know, it's it's not easy To be honest, it's getting better. It's getting better. It's getting better. I mean I started in Malaysia We have an airline in Thailand. We have an airline in Indonesia. We have an airline in Philippines and God willing we'll have one in India very soon and Japan as well That would have been unheard of now. We kind of Airlines are so nationalistic. It's almost like you're carrying the the country's flag. Why do you think that is? It's interesting right that come countries no longer think they need to have a national steel company Yeah, but every country thinks that as an article of faith it must have a state-owned airline It's something that I'm doing my level best To try and persuade governments that you don't need to have a national carrier, but it is you know, they constantly lose money But because it has the country's name on it. There's almost that Infection, but it's changing. It's changing the fact as we've created something. That's ASEAN and I See a lot of regulations now Becoming much more proactive. I mean we're pushing this whole ASEAN Reform scenario. We're saying let's have one regulation. Let me take it my industry Rather than have pilots who have 10 different exams to pass in 10 different countries or 10 different air traffic controls Isn't it easier for business if we had one regulation and one ASEAN regulation? And I'm sure many industries feel that same way And so we're pushing that that process of ownership and one regulation and creating a much larger market between them So it's tough. It isn't easy and I'll tell you a funny story. I mean as you go through when we When we occasionally as ASEAN countries have some little differences I was once with the president of Indonesia who said, you know, Tony What if we go to war with Malaysia? Who will Air Asia support? I said sir, very simple Air Asia Indonesia will move the Indonesian soldiers to war and Air Asia Malaysia will bring the Malaysian soldiers to fight them We are truly ASEAN more ways than one But I mean, you know, we joke about it But it is also tough sometimes for an ASEAN company to build a business within ASEAN but the reform has started and I believe that private industry has to change it. I share my view very much with James that We can't wait for governments private industry has to push governments. I think we had a fantastic Meeting this morning where actually the best statement came from the Malaysian Trade Minister who said having heard all of this I thought we were doing very well But actually there's a lot more that needs to be done and so the consultative approach I think has always been just ministers talking to each other And I think this morning was actually encouraging to see business talking to ministers as well and Trying to find a win-win situation trust is important in ASEAN Right now every country thinks do I win by having a single market? Do I lose? I think the goal is very simple. Everyone will win Whether you a big country or a small country by having a common market of 700 million people every person in that market will benefit Let's take your questions. I only ask that you identify yourself You ask a question of a specific person only one And that the question in fact be a question If you would like to make a speech at some point through the forum will decide to invite you on the panel But this is this is not that occasion Global Agenda Council of the on Southeast Asia for the World Economic Forum I Take the point about the engagement of business with with the government In fact, I think many of the members of an organization which we formed in order to do that are here in this room today but All that is necessary But I'd like to put this question to the to the panel right or have the panel addressed What is it actually an existential question for us? Yeah, it's great. We do all these things, but is it enough? The point is ASEAN is like this sort of sepa takro club You know like a little cottage industry where the task ahead of it is of geopolitical scale Right, so it was formed a certain time ago With a sort of a limited mandate it now has a huge mandate to form an economic region at a time When things aren't keeping still they are that there's the TPP negotiation going on. There's our sep, right? There are there are huge plans around ASEAN walls of money from both Japan and China Right waiting to come into ASEAN and meanwhile there's this dithering around an old consultative method So I like to address You know sure why don't we ask that to the Vietnamese deputy prime minister? The question is simple. You hear there's this changing geopolitics changing geoeconomics And ASEAN is it becoming a smaller part and less Relevant as the station summit. There's all these TPP things happen. You know that In ASEAN will become the community by 2015 and That that is the a large market of 600 million people and the we promote the intro Integration or we call the connectivity within ASEAN at the same time we also promote the integrations with His partners outside in 2012 we have agreed to establish the regional comprehensive economic partnership with six other countries namely China, Japan, South Korea, India, Australia and New Zealand. It would create a market of three more than three billion people including India, sorry Then half of the populations of the world and one-third of the GDP of the world So that is the expansion of integration not only within ASEAN, but between ASEAN with other countries and ASEAN also has some negotiations to establish FTA with EU with Already have the FTA with China and Individual countries in ASEAN also Conducting the negotiations on FTA with other countries with other grouping for example Vietnam is conducting six FTA negotiations TPP is the one with European Union the other with South Korea and Sabata countries, so this is the status in ASEAN Other questions, sir Thank you for it. My name is Nandu. I'm the Nestle executive director responsible for Africa and Asia My question is from Secretary Domingo and has to do with ASEAN Intra-Asean trade and speaks to the points made by Tony and James about regulations. My question very specifically today One of the things that restricts intra-Asean trade is the multiplicity of Non-tariff regulatory barriers such as multiple halal registrations by the MUI in each country Such as multiple FDA registrations by each country individually. I know you're working on this in the ASEAN council of ministers And I know that this these discussions are running running to roadblocks in your perspective In what time frame could we see some harmonization of these non-tariff? barriers I think Some of them should be resolved quite quickly But as you're resolving them some others crop up new ones So I don't think you can set the time frame as to when all of them will be completed but we This has been identified not only in ASEAN actually, but in almost all of the trade fora where WTO included This is actually a very big issue now and so special committees task forces have been formed to address this particular Problem and ASEAN is on that as well we that there are several reasons for the Low volume of intra ASEAN trade not only NTB's It also speaks of the rules that are not Easy for for example for SMEs to participate Because and again, this problem is not unique to ASEAN It's also true in WTO because most of the trade rules are really geared for big corporations So where they have their accountants and lawyers that will fill up the forms rules of origin, etc But for SMEs it becomes very cumbersome that very few SMEs will actually avail of it and a lot There are a lot of SMEs within ASEAN. So if we address these issues as well for the SMEs in terms of Putting the minimis rules make it really easy for them to For Thailand export SME exporters to send to Indonesia and vice versa Then I think we can see the intra ASEAN trade grow by leaps and bounds So that's that's one of the things that we're focusing now as well on ASEAN is to address the SME problem But the NTB's the non-tariff barriers definitely is very high on the agenda We're always discussing that now and trying to move forward Anyone else? Let me ask One of our members of the audience since I know to see happens to be here to show my bubani To answer the first question, which I'll rephrase this way, which is Can ask the ASEAN deal with the very? Large geopolitical challenges that it faces Which are really the rise of China the desire of China to have Really independent bilateral relations with each of its of its neighbors and not deal with ASEAN as a group The rise of TPP and the desire for the United States to try and create a larger trade will be in others These are these larger Giants that are playing around and here's ASEAN. Can it negotiate give us describe the situation for us? Thank you for it. I thought I was going to sneak in I thought I was going to sneak into this meeting quietly But I hope I do. I hope you don't mind if I give you a very optimistic answer Because clearly there's Joe but the geopolitical rivalry between us and China China in Japan to some extent within China and India will rise That's a given And I'm absolutely certain that they'll be doing more in terms of competing with one another And it is conceivable There's at least a 20 to 30 percent chance that ASEAN could be torn apart and could break in the next 10 years That's also conceivable But the likelihood is that and and this is this reflects I guess my personal judgment on The basis of working with the policymakers who actually make the policies on ASEAN Whether it's in Delhi or Beijing or Tokyo or Washington DC That they realize that ASEAN is an amazing geopolitical asset for them and ASEAN actually provides the geopolitical platform which enables them to meet each other in a way that they cannot meet each other Bilaterally may for example the Chinese and Japanese have great difficulty Arranging bilateral meetings, but when they come to an ASEAN meetings They have a lot of site meetings and that reduces the tension within China and Japan as it happens once in Vietnam By the way when they couldn't talk to each other So the likelihood is that if I'm a betting man There's a 70% probability that ASEAN will benefit enormously from this geopolitical competition because everybody is now Coming to the table with real how do you say real material benefits? These are not paper agreements. Okay, if you look at what Asia China is offering ASEAN It's very real stuff whether it's infrastructure development loans credits and so on so forth The Japanese are now matching and that alone means that's a tremendous boost to ASEAN already So you see high-speed railways Infrastructure and all coming as a result of this geopolitical competition And I think once India settles itself India will come in too and as you know The United States also made it a priority and the good news is that if both RCEP succeed and TPP succeed And I think it's conceivable that both will succeed is not a zero-sum game Because many of them like Vietnam and Singapore are members of both the TPP and the RCEP process I will benefit from both and so all many others So I'm not sure what the tenor of your earlier discussion was But I hope at least I want to make everyone feel very optimistic about ASEAN and and and also by the way It's very I hope to write a book on this in the next year. So thank you very much We always just hope that the World Economic Forum will be given credit for your for your inspiration So we started by wondering about questions of war and conflict. We've ended with Kishore telling us not to worry the great Southeast Asian middle class is going to save the world. Thank you all very much