 Good evening, everyone. I'd like to welcome you to this event. Thank you for your participation. I'd like to thank all the speakers for here with us today. We will discuss the topics just transition on energy democracy the first topic. During the first session we will talk about just transition. This is the first of the many events of the Jeff that will take place in the following period. We have some attendees here from the European Union. We will discuss the economy, the economy before and during this pandemic. Together we will discuss the trends in the economy here in Macedonia, Europe. You will have access to certain researches and reports that will take place here in our country but also in Europe with the aim to improve our practices. How shall we transform our economy from destructive to regenerative economy? We will discuss how to make the transition from the economy we have today into something better. We have a few speakers who will discuss the same topic from different perspectives and who will share their thoughts, their opinions, their practices. We have to take into consideration the social and the circular economy. And with this project we will be able to know how to detect many problems and find solutions to make this transition possible. Without further ado, I'd like to introduce the speakers of the session. I'm Dirk Holmans representative of Jeff and a founder of OICOS. He will talk about the project of just transition. Next speaker will be Maya Morachanian, an MP in the assembly of Macedonia. She will talk about the struggle against mining. And then Anna Petrovska, head of state environmental inspectorate will talk about the environmental enforcement and instrument for just transition. I will send you the link in the chat. You can register for the Jeff journal if you want to be informed of the latest information regarding these topics. I'd like to encourage you to be careful listeners, attentive, and you can also feel free to ask questions. Now I'd like to ask Dirk to take the floor. Okay. I hope you all can hear me well. And first of all, I really want to say that it's really sad. We cannot be together. As Alexander knows, I love to come to North Macedonia. I really enjoyed former meetings. So let's say this is a one time digital meeting and next year we meet again. In a normal way. First discussing content and then having a good beer together. So for that, I'm from Belgium. The topic today is just transition. It is the topic of a transnational project of the Green European Foundation, which is a foundation that brings together all different green foundations and think tanks from all over Europe. We work together with projects and that's typical for all transnational projects. We work together with colleagues from all over Europe. So really to integrate different perspectives, because I think this is really key to Europe. Yes, there is diversity. But at the same time, by working together, by cooperating, we can strengthen each other and we can all learn from each other and strive like this for a better world. In this project, for instance, we are not only with people from North Macedonia and Belgium, but we also have colleagues from England. Yes, also after Brexit, England is still Europe. We have colleagues also from Spain, South Europe that also face specific challenges. Just transition is part of the answer to the big challenges we face as society. And to elaborate on this, I will use a PowerPoint and so on now we'll try to share my screen. Here we go. Do you see my screen? Everything is okay. Then probably I don't have to tell you this, but I think it's always important to really emphasize this as a starting point is that if we look at the main ecological crisis, climate change, but also the decline of biodiversity. We are really in a kind of unprecedented situation. And it's really time now to act. We don't, we cannot lose another year to say so. That's also what Peter Thunberg tells all the time. Actually, the next 10 years will be crucial if we want to leave the earth as a liveable and enjoyable space in place for our children. I think this is a crucial starting point. And so therefore we need system change. All the reports whether it's on biodiversity or on climate change emphasize the same. Just greening the current system is not enough. It will not bring any solution. We need radical system change transformation of how we produce stuff, how we produce energy, how we transport things, the food, how we produce our food and so further. And just transition is one of these key principles, kind of framework that we can use to guide us to ecological society that is just an equitable. And I will explain in a moment that it was developed first by the labor unions, but I think the very positive development is that last year's labor unions but also climate movements are using the concept of just transition. Because they work now together for systemic transformation while taking into account workers' rights and livelihoods and to give one concrete example, during the first COVID crisis in Belgium, as in many countries, our company was in trouble and they asked for state support. And it was for the first time that labor unions and climate movement work together on a common position. Say for people who work there, they need an income, but we don't have to save an air company. So that's really something new thing emerging. Also, I think very important is the huge protest in France, the yellow vests. People were really protesting because the French government introduced a so-called environmental tax, but it was just a tax on car fuel after they just had cut down taxes for the rich. And so if you don't take into account the real living situations of people, for instance people living in the countryside where they really need their car to go to work because there's no public transport, if you don't take these realities of life into consideration, you will never be able to really implement this transformation. And of course, I don't have to explain you the current COVID-19 crisis is like a mirror. It shows us the already existing problems, inequality, ecological crisis is even more visible due to the COVID-19 crisis. So I think this is a really strong sentence. It's from the secretary general of the global workers movement. There are no jobs on a dead planet. I think this really shows that also people from the labor union are well aware of the importance of tackling the ecological crisis. And that we really need to embed just transition in a bigger context. So just transition is not just, it's not only about people, maybe in a mining company that will lose their job that we have to support them, which is very important. But the frame is that we really have to transform the economic and political structures that reproduce and exacerbate inequalities. And part will be the creation of employment that promotes labor rights and improves working conditions, while also encompassing gender and racial equality, democratic participation and social justice. So it's really the different dimensions of this goal of justice that is included. This also means that we have to discuss what it means economic prosperity, what does it mean social well being. So very quick, something on the history. So it was already in the 1970s when the United States environmental legislation was introduced that some workers group risk to lose their job. Also, a trade union leader, Tony, that's my job see said we need a fund that will provide financial support and opportunities for education for workers, displaced by environmental protection policies. So it's something already going on for decades. And at the end of the 1990s, the trade unions really incorporated concepts of just transition. And the trade union movements also put this concept of just transition on the table of the international climate debate for instance at the Kyoto conference, or also the cop 16 can come. They put it on the table and with the cop 21 which, as you know, is very important where the climate agreement of Paris was established. Just transition became an integral element of the international climate policy framework so it's not something theoretical in the air it's really something that is now integrated in important policy agreements. And also last but not least decent work is also in incorporated in the sustainable development goals. It's SDG number eight. Now if we look at which international institutions are playing a key role. It is the International Labour Organization that's really key here. The yellow published in 2015 already a set of guidelines to facilitate a transition towards a green economy. And these guidelines are kind of how mark for just transition policies worldwide. And you can find this report very easily on the internet. And I don't go, I'm not going to read all these little sentences, but it's clear what it's a definition of what should be done in on just transition it's about. There is a current country specific mix of macroeconomic industrial sectoral and labor policies so I think this is already very important. Every country has to develop its own just transition policies, the things needed in North Macedonia are not the same as the things needed in Belgium to give one example we already closed our last coal mine in the 70s. And second very important point is that as the challenge cuts across several domains, you really need a kind of coherent policy packets addressing all policy fields. These two points are then translated to what the government should do and what social partners should do. And I think the key here is social dialogue. All stages from policy design to implementation and evaluation and also social dialogue at all levels from the concrete factory to the national level. And of course the social partners have to really play an active role here. And I'm not going to be very academic and different definitions but I just want to show you that there are differences of how just transition is being defined. It's kind of different definition. Of course there's a lot of common ground so I think this is the most important but it's good to know that there are also some nuances so the labor movement really focuses on securing the future and the livelihoods of workers and communities in a transition to a low carbon economy. So that's really the key point, livelihoods of workers and communities for the trade unions. If we then move to a definition by an environmental movement Prince of the Earth, we find a much broader approach. Just in the concept just transition they say, but as this refers to some chance of a safe climate for future generations, which means that we have to discuss the fair distribution of the remaining global carbon budget between countries. And so also the distribution of the costs related to the transition. So like you see this is a much broader definition but as I said there's a lot of common ground, which is of course the most crucial. Another point all documents on just transition emphasize is that you have to work at different levels. Sometimes you have to work at a level of one company or one sector, for instance the electricity sector is of course very much affected by just transition. But also a region, a good example is the region in Germany, which used to be reaching full of mines coal mines and steel factories. And it took them many, many years and a lot of money to really have a successful conversion to other economic activities. But also on the level of countries, regions of countries, we have to discuss just transition of course also the European Union and global scale so it's really on the different scales, we have to put into practice the different perspectives and measures. So, what are necessary, or some of the necessary elements in a just transition process. As I said, there has to be a social dialogue which is inclusive you really have to include all the different stakeholders also is organized mostly on a regional basis so you need inclusive social and regional dialogue. It's clear that you need measures to mitigate negative effects on workers so you need to support them this can for instance be kind of for a certain time and income guarantee. It's clear that in the transition, it are specific regions and communities that are hurt the most so you really need specific support for these regions and communities. So, and I think this relates to the process of the yellow vests in France. It's also this vision of enabling all citizens to live a sustainable life, which means that you have also to invest in infrastructures. A lot of the protest of the yellow vests in France was of people living at the countryside because they need their car, because there's very little public transport there are very little jobs in the region where they live. So, if you want to enable these people to live a sustainable life it's also about investing in infrastructures for decent life, public transport, new economic activities so people can find a job close home and so on. As I said, of course, supporting effective companies and farmers because most of the examples that normally are given in the field of just transition are of course industrial activities, or think of steel companies think of mining, but also farmers. Of course, situational farmers is much different in different countries, but to give the example of Belgium, a lot of farmers are stuck in a kind of model of industrial agro business. And to get out of this kind of lock in in the system and they also need support so then to finish a look at European Union and its policies, as you all know, and I say personally I find it very exciting. You can have a lot of critique on the Green Deal, but if you compare the ambition of the current Commission to the lack of ambition of the former Commission with Juncker. It's really, very interesting you have underlay who's a Christian Democrat and you have people who are social Democrats, who are really, really trying to push towards a very green agenda. You have to stay critical and a lot of things are not ambitious enough, but if you compare it to the European Union of two years ago, this is really a change. So really, the ambition to achieve climate neutrality in European Union in 2050 and also the fact that the European Parliament said it's not ambitious enough we want to even have higher ambition is really something. And of course we don't know who will be elected in the United States, but imagine Biden get elected and he will join again the Paris climate agreement. Also last week China said they want to become a climate neutral by 2060. So I think if we are optimistic, we could see the big powers of the world really embracing this agenda of Green of Green Deal. The Green Deal. It's a very ambitious and complex policy packet. And I'm not going to explain. Everything. But here you see some elements. So it's transition to a circular economy. It's, as I said, also policy on agriculture from to fork. It's about also mobility sustainable transport, but it's also for instance, about the financial sector. In financing strategy. It's also about energy. And here you also see very explicitly just transition with really the goal of leaving no one behind. And so therefore the European Union has created the just transition funds, which is a funding mechanism composed of three main pillars. In order to allocate funding for regions in part to carbon neutral you and also to ensure this happens in a fair and just way and these three main pillars are economic conversion. One is to support the startup of new economies. Second is a social support of which I spoke already it can be providing training, it can be providing income guarantee. Third is land restoration. If you close a mining area or an area full of steel companies, you have to invest in land restoration for instance to make it again usable for agriculture or also for maybe a kind of sustainable tourism. Of course, and this I think is our points of debate. So the EU policy is still talking about green growth, economic growth. And of course, how growth of the economy is compatible with environmental limits planetary boundaries is a point of discussion, as even the USD in one of its latest reports says that our economic model is broken but just to point out that we have to be conscious Of course, it's not because the Green Deal includes the just transition that there are no challenges or no points to really look into closer. One of the challenges will be overcoming the focus on national allocation so this country gets more than us. And so on. Second challenge is moving beyond the energy production. It's not only about energy and the more obvious carbon intensive industries, but as I said, we are talking about systemic sport and construction are the affected sectors. Of course, it cannot be done by the policy group itself, we have to work together with the stakeholders with the private sector. But of course policies have to set targets and timelines for instance for the really clear phase out of fossil fuels. Now to end a few case studies. Canada is a really heavy exporter of fossil fuels, especially the region of Alberta. 200,000 people work directly in the oil, gas and coal sectors. And even hundreds of thousands more working jobs in directly tied to those industries. But already in 2015, there was a plan agreed to accelerate the transition away from coal power. This led three years later that the Alberta Federation of Labor secured a transition settlement for coal workers, which means that there's a future for coal workers and so the Federation of Labor is not against the closure of the mines. Another example is Spain, where there has been a deal between the trade unions and the government. The government makes available more than 200 million for an investment. And so there's really a timeline and a decision to phase out coal fired plants. As of July this year, seven plants cease operation and four more will soon follow, putting Spain on track to ultimately become coal free. And I know energy here is not the main topic, but I just want to add here that renewable energy. And wind is becoming so cheap, cheaper every year, that also just from a market perspective, whether you're green, red, blue or whatever, even from a market perspective, it doesn't make sense anymore to invest in coal mines. It's just the average cost to produce a kilowatts gets cheaper every year if you use wind or solar. And the last example, and because I don't want to give only the nice examples in South Africa, there's also some work being done on just transition because they are afraid of job losses and a lot of the South African economy is reliant on renewals and energy consumption. And there, yeah, there's a kind of quasi inertia in terms of implementation of just transition principles so here at the moment, things are stuck we also have to be clear that it's not just something easy that will work everywhere. It really sometimes is a very difficult situation. Conclusion and just I decided not to put conclusions, because I'm just offering a framework. And of course, one of the points I emphasized was that you need country specific perspective and solutions and therefore I think only people active in specific country can provide these so therefore I very humble no stop here. I'm very eager to listen to the next speakers who will then talk with really a knowledge of their country. So, thank you very much. Thank you so much, Dirk. You managed to talk about a lot of things in such a short time. This really affects us and concerns us since we try to switch from an economy that pollutes into economy that pollutes even more. We are aware that we use coal in large quantities. We are aware that we have problems with the distribution of waste. You mentioned that in Belgium. We used the coal mines in the 70s. So in this context, we will continue with representative from the Green Party, the leader of the Green Party, Maya Morachanin, who will discuss the struggle against mining. Thank you, Dirk, the floor now. Thank you, Alexander, and welcome to everybody. I'm really happy that I have the opportunity to talk about to talk at this panel discussion. I really believe that this is an economical model. And what is important and what Dirk emphasized is when we talk about transition, in relation of course to some aspects of the transition has to be incorporated together with the transition. If we talk about just transition. So the dialogue among the people is very important, but as well as the support for the vulnerable groups and their prices during the whole procedure of transitioning with the very complex. So what we as Greenies often emphasize that the ecology and the social justice both hand in hand together, and that one doesn't exclude the other, and that the economy can also be developed in the right way. So the economic well being for the citizens, but it should be done together with respecting the principle for climate neutrality and protection of the environment and the climate. So in this regard, the transition from particular economy. That is from the current linear circular economy concept, which is being talked about and is being practiced for a long time in some countries in the European Union. And what's important here as a simple explanation is that the current model of the linear economy means exhausting the whole the renewable resources of the planet for the goals of the industry. In this process we get lots of amounts of waste, which is being put somewhere and which affects negatively the environment and people's health. This is unsustainable concept of development. So we have to position towards the circular economy, which is based on the principles of renewing repairing products and recycling. So that as a result of this process will get less and less amount of waste, which would be put away. I think I would like to emphasize positive example, even though it is still a process that is ongoing, the struggle to close mining in the Republic of North Macedonia, but I would like to share my experience in the last five years. In this struggle against opening new mines again, it was talked about mining, which would use copper, and we talked to the citizens of the places where those mines were supposed to be located and built. During that moment, the public wasn't aware, not even the local communities were aware that concessions have been issued for geological research, as well as concessions to parts working with the exportation or that is building the mines. The mining hasn't always authorized, as well as the mining in Lovica, which are in the southeast part of the country, and the population reacted. They were against building these kinds of mines because the local population there is really into farming and tourism, and through the current years, they were against building mines that are open. So they stayed in their process of production, use high needs and help on the environment, and if in order to build those mines, it would need to be forest, the location or the land, but also the surface and the underground waters are also being negatively affected by the production and building of these mines, which means that the air, the land and the water would be polluted, as well as the activities, the farming activities and the tourism activities that the population uses there would be stopped and they would have no way to exist. I believe that this is a very positive example, how with the collaboration between the population, the civic initiatives and the politicians, we as a Green Party were part of this fight, this struggle against mining. And when we discussed together with argument, it was a very long process, and it wasn't easy, the fight wasn't easy, but as a result, we saw that the population together with the politics and with the institutions which are responsible for this area, which should give support, we can achieve very good results. That is what happened in the end in Chazumbo, was that the government took away the confession of the mine, and therefore that mine stopped being filled, because it still hasn't started being filled. And the confession for the exploitation of mineral raw material was taken away. In the mine in Ilovaca, which is also in the first phase, the government decided to take away, it took away the confession. However, the investors from the mining sector there appealed at the courts, they brought along a lawsuit. However, together with fighting together, which was done as a referendum of the population in that region, who said they didn't want to have those kinds of mines built in their locations and through our activity, with discussions in the parliament and in the media, and civil initiatives, who were like leaders in this fight, we managed to take away these confessions, especially because of, because Ilovaca is already in a legal procedure and there is an ongoing lawsuit to take this away and we are constantly fighting and monitoring what happens in that process. What is also very important and what we managed to achieve is that in this period, during this fight with those two mines, which were in their first phase still, and those confessions were taken away, by the initiative of an MP members of the parliament to adopt the changes in the law of mineral raw materials, and to close those mines that use ironing for assets. This result is a way of what are the intentions of the sectors and encourage them to keep on investing and keep on doing ecological research, because there have been dozens of possibilities to do researchers and to see whether that investor would like to keep on looking for places where they would get some discussion. Therefore, this law is like a prevention of future possible investors who would like to open new such mines, which use ironing and sulfuric acids in their production. What is also important in this whole process, and I believe it should be emphasized, is that the arguments of the mining industry or the mining companies, those are the companies that want to open mines. One of their key arguments was that opening such a mine would bring about economical growth in the region, new jobs for the population, and that it would practically be in accordance with the economical growth of the region. This is unacceptable for us as well as for the local population, because this does not only offer new jobs, because the number of jobs in those mines would be much lower than in open jobs of the citizens that work in the tourism and agriculture areas. The conditions are also very good for the health of the workers because it's a very pollution industry. So they had a very small support, these kinds of offers from the workers because the citizens understand that these mines would not only pollute the environment, but they would also have negative aspects. When it comes to their economic wealth, because they are working in the farming and the tourism sectors. Therefore, I believe it is very important when we talk about the transition and green economy, to always emphasize that green economy doesn't only mean protection of the environment and the climate, but it also offers economical well-being especially for the local population, because it is an opportunity or a potential for thousands of new green jobs, which are decent for the workers, which don't have negative effects on their health. So I think that could achieve economical well-being of the population, because it is often questioned and we have to choose between economy and between the protection of the environment and health, which is not true, because this concept of development of green economy offers both possibilities together, and that's the perspective for the development of the economy generally in the world, because there isn't another possibility. We're being faced with one of the biggest catastrophes looking at the long term, excluding the current COVID crisis as a very serious health and social crisis in the world. However, climate changes are still a threat towards the existence of the planet, to conserve our planet, and to give opportunities for life for the future generations, then this process of just transition is the perfect solution and it is necessary. I thank you all. I would like to leave more time about this topic, but as well as for the other speakers. I hope that I will be able to follow the whole discussion until the end, because I would like to apologize in advance if I have to turn off, because we're currently in the parliament. And there is a debate about the budget, and we will probably have to vote soon, so if I have to, I will have to turn off soon. Thank you very much, Maya. Thank you very much to you and to Bogdanowsky that today you took the time to be with us. It was well said by Maya in her presentation. However, we need to think about as a country which is not part of the EU, even though these kinds of laws on mineral raw materials have been issued despite has to continue, because green jobs are not in mind, but they're in other places. In the future we will have more ending from the government, opposing to what we have now, and hope to have better and decent jobs. In another context, what was being mentioned in both presentations I would like to call upon Anna Petrovskaya. I would like to say that today the climate change is real. That's why the industry and the other pollutants should be responsible. The pollute and effect in a negative way the health of the of the population. The fossil fuel technologies will not survive since they're reducing of emissions of pollutants such as PM particles nitrogen and sulfur oxides through waste gas systems will not reduce the emissions of carbon dioxide. The reduction of greenhouse gas emissions will be possible only through energy efficiency and fuel change that is forsaking fossil fuels and using renewable energy sources. The environmental inspectorate has a responsible role in the transition processes as it monitors the work of the industrial and other types of installation installations. I think that the emissions of polluting substances do not surpass the boundaries. Also, it is sure that the installation implements various programs, including energy efficiency programs, or the replacement of fossil fuels with renewable energy sources, which aim to reduce fossil fuel consumption and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. As a new head of the environmental inspectorate. This is my sixth day, I plan for the inspectors during the winter months so where when there's increased pollution to conduct regular inspections and monitoring of major polluters. That is installations that have integrated environmental licenses or permits. In November we went December, we will have extra inspection carried out on the minor polluters. That is those installations that have approved environmental protection reports. The state inspectorate in November and December will inspect the installations that have been integrated environmental permits by the Ministry of Environment and Special Planning. Starting from this week, we will start monitoring the trade with waste oils that are unphysical entities. Waste oils contain polychronated biphanels which release concertogenic pollutants during combustion so any sale of these oils will be severely sanctioned. We will also monitor the import of waste tires and its combustion, which also causes very harmful emissions. I expect that certain approved statements will have have serious shortcomings in terms of whether the working conditions are okay or not. Some integrated environmental permits will need to be revised. In that regard, during the following three to four months, I obliged my colleagues to thoroughly review the statements and the permits and to revise them in order to enable those enforcement inspections to be improved and to improve the performance of the polluters. Finally, we will ask the polluters to carry out energy controls that is to implement an energy management system in accordance with the ISO 5001 standard. In order to improve their performances and reduce the greenhouse gas emissions. The environmental enforcement need to be more efficient and more transparent. With monitoring, we want to influence and prevent pollution. Regarding transparency, we will provide insight into the results of the conducted inspections and will facilitate the reporting of irregularities. So, in order to protect the health of the population, we must ensure that it will be our top priority. We know that the health of the population in these COVID times is very important and I want to state that this inspection is very good. If it's very well carried out, it will be very beneficial for the health of our citizens. And I'd like to ask for support by the citizens to act together and report any problems and pollutants in order for them to be sanctioned as soon as possible. Thank you. We're waiting for Alexander. Sorry, I had some problems with the connection. Thank you very much, Anna. Now I'd like to leave some time for questions. I'd like to open a discussion. We have a second session on energy democracy. We'll take place in five to ten minutes. So, any questions to them? Miroslav. Good evening, everyone. I just want to say a few more things that, a few more things about what Anna said. I support her and I'm at her service. It must go on. I believe that we're about to have fierce winter and pollutants must think of what they are about to do. Anna, you have my support. Good luck. I have two more questions for Anna. Alexander and you, Chef. Anna mentioned that there will be revision of the previous statements. Do you think that there may be a conflict of interest? I mean, who will control those who control? How do you plan to do that? Okay, so for tomorrow we plan an inspection for which we had to read the integrated permit. First, I wanted to offer some details on where we managed to detect some shortcomings. You know, in a way some emissions were legalized. I will not mention the company in question, since it will be an extra inspection. But I will definitely inform you about the outcomes of the inspection. We found out that there are some shortcomings regarding some directives. After the inspection, after the enforcement, after once we get the results from the measurements we plan to do, after we intervene. Of course, we will inform the Ministry of Environment since we have the right to do that. We have the right to tell the Ministry that we have some findings that our hands are tight, but we cannot do anything but just inform them. So I don't think that there will be any conflict of interest. We are just a supervision. We just control the situation and just analyze the conditions, the working conditions and check if they are following the directives. So if the Ministry doesn't want to issue certain permits, what can be done? I think that no one has addressed the Ministry regarding some change of permit or prevention of giving permits. I consulted some experts and some public experts and I think that we will collaborate with them and manage to solve certain issues. Okay, thank you. Every time we have such final discussions and conferences, I get the feeling that we focus on the capital. So as I stated in the instructions, I am interested to know how you will carry out your activities in the other municipalities. I get the feeling that you only control SCOPIA, only monitor activities in SCOPIA. So my question is why not offer some examples outside of SCOPIA? Give some examples of what you've done or what you plan to do outside of SCOPIA. Okay, I know that the inspectorate has its website and it keeps informing the public on their activities. So everything that we work on, we must publicly announce. Of course, we take care of the privacy. We publish that we have found that but we do not mention the name of the company, for example, or the factory. We do that so that the citizens know what happens in their city, but we are not that detailed in giving off information. We have inspectors in many cities but in Kumanovo we do not have an inspector. However, some colleagues from time to time they go there and monitor the situation. We try to increase the transparency. So soon enough besides all the ways in which we work will be improved. And we are open to cooperate with you, with the public. They can get into touch with us through mail or through the official site. But we also plan to set a new tool in motion to motion and in order to shorten the time of reaction. So with this instrument, the citizens will be able to monitor to comply or to inform us about any pollutants and any other suspective activities. That are occurring. So all the information we get, we try to act upon it. And for some things that we are not able to act, we try and inform our other institutions who are responsible for, who are authorized to act. In some cities we have citizens that are not pleased with some things that are being taken care of. But we try to communicate and solve these issues. Alina Popovska, former leader of DOM, the Green Party in Macedonia. Thank you, Alexander. I have one question for Anna. Congratulations on your new position. This is your sixth day as a head. And you've started working on many things. I see that you have a clear plan, clear set of goals. And I support you. I want to know regarding the transparency, regarding the communication with the citizens to plan to implement something from the experience of Miroslav. He had your position in the past. So do you plan to implement some of his practices? He punished certain pollutants for the first time. So as his punishment or his award, he was removed from the position in Skopje. He was in the city of Skopje for two years in the city inspectorate when he made many positive changes in the dynamics of the work and the functioning of the system. They set an E-platform through which the citizens could follow the process of enforcement. The citizens would know which inspector would go in which place and which companies will they punish. So it was an example of complete transparency. The citizens took direct, were directly included in the process. So do you plan to implement such tool again or something similar to this? Of course, those who are good at something, we should always follow them. Of course, I cooperate with Miroslav. He supported me not just verbally, but also he shared some experiences with me and taught me many things. So undoubtedly the platform that you just mentioned, the platform that informed the citizens on the enforcement is very useful and of course I want to keep it into practice. We are still developing a software. I'm still discussing it and learning more things about it. I'm getting very useful information and support and help from many experts in the field and I plan to use it as a tool to improve the work with you. I think that using these tools, the citizens will get to trust the institutions more and of course we will keep cooperating with Miroslav and I think that it will be beneficial in the future. The colleagues have a huge respect for Miroslav and I must say that I mind the fact that they keep comparing me with him. I hope that I will try and leave a mark as I had there as well. Thank you so much for the questions. We should go on on the second session. However, we have one more question. I'd like to ask the speakers to stay during the following session, since it will also be an interesting topic. The next question has one more question and after that we will go on the next session. Hello everybody, congratulations to Anna Petrovskaya. I have no doubt that in the following period she will be able to do a lot about the environment, I will be short. When it comes to protecting those Kutipov, I would like to ask a question. A lot of the citizens from my municipality are scared to Kutipov companies. So what I want to know is whether those people who Kutipov are protected, because there was a case a week ago. When an MP of a neighbour of his and he said that he was called by the court as a witness because he tipped off that his neighbour was polluting. I'm wondering what the inspectorate's position on protecting these people who Kutipov are the polluters. I must have a petition from a citizen for a whistleblower. And that petition is anonymous when it comes to the polluters that are inspected. And it is about description of the inspectorate to not publish the name of the whistleblower. There are very small reasons, so I can't guarantee that the name of the whistleblower won't be published and that discussion will be kept. There are all kinds of different situations and that's out of the law on inspection. Maybe it's part of a different area or responsibility of different organs. I think for emphasising these kinds of problems, but that shouldn't rate whistleblowers to tip-off polluters. I would like to see as an inspectorate for those whistleblowers, for those people who have decided to tip-off the polluters and then use the tools that we have to work in accordance to the procedures. Thank you. What else? Thank you, Dana. I know that the conditions here. First of all, when they announced the topic, it did a great elaboration. However, in the European Union, it hasn't come to that level of 100% trust transition. It is obvious that here, not only in the parliament, where there is a fight for just transition that we are talking about, but it's also obvious that we all agree that the inspectorate will have a, or might have a huge role in that just transition. Because here, if you don't punish the companies, that would be the top of the theory for the place we live in. Excuse me, I only have a question on this important topic. I have a question for Ana, because you mentioned that their procedure starts with petitions. If a citizen tips off, or if the petition doesn't matter in which way, whether through email or archive, or through the electronic platform that they built, and that's great. I'm really interested whether the inspectorate can, without having a petition from a digital slower, because of its own findings, do an extra inspection, because they have their own tools that they implement. So I'm wondering whether, without a petition, they can do an inspection in a company. The law allows that Maya, however, the inspectors do not feel comfortable when they estimate on their own, and they decide that they have to go somewhere to do an inspection. They ask from the head to give them an inspection, which lets them do the procedure. So if there is a pet, so if there is a company that has to be inspected, but there is no petition, I can assign a certain inspector and let him realize and let him implement the inspection without having a previous petition from a whistleblower. Oh, however, we call that person. So in any case, the head has the right to decide which inspector goes where, because of their doubts, or because of doubts in the public. Thank you. Thank you. I know that this topic is very relevant. However, we're going to have to move on to the second part. This poll will remain as long as they can. That's the MPs as well. For further questions.