 Thank you all so much for joining us today. My name is Tori Bosch and I am the editor of Future Tents. Future Tents is a partnership of Slate Magazine, Arizona State University and New America. And our goals look at emerging technologies and their implications for public policy and for society. Usually we hold live events in Washington DC. Sorry, I have a cat nearby. Usually we hold live events in Washington and Phoenix and elsewhere, but for obvious reasons we have had to move them all online. So We are going to be holding what we're now calling social distancing socials and our guest for today is Dean Chris Callahan of Arizona State University. The cat also just knocked over my notes for give me one second. Sorry everyone live TV is hard. Dean Callahan is the founding Dean of the Walter Cronkate School of Journalism Mass Communications at Arizona State. He's also the vice provost of ASU's downtown Phoenix campus and the CEO of Arizona PBS Dean Callahan. Welcome. Thank you for joining us. Sorry. Thanks so much for having me. Of course. So Dean Callahan and I will talk for about 30 minutes or so about what it's like to run a journalism school during a pandemic. And then after that, we'll open it up to questions. You can submit your questions either through the chat or through the Q&A function. And then we will get them and we'll get to as many as we can, but we promise to wrap up for five o'clock. So let's get started. Um, Dean Callahan, how are you doing? Do you need more Diet Coke? How have your last few weeks been I've actually broken myself on that habit. Finally, Tori. Thankfully, or else I'm afraid I would have OD'd by now. You know, like like everybody else in in America and around the world. It's been it's been a challenging time, but I'd like to think that our faculty and our students have really risen to the occasion in some pretty remarkable ways. Yes. So why don't you take us back a couple of weeks? And so when did you sort of get the sense that ASU was going to have to make a big change? And how did you start thinking about that in terms of Cronkite? Yeah, and we were, you know, obviously, we're, you know, following events as they were unfolding. But really the tipping point was, I guess, about two and a half weeks ago, when the first university, University of Washington Stanford University, announced that they would be planning to go at the time for a couple of weeks to a remote online environment. And that's when we really started kicking it into gear. And our leadership team spent really from that point through the middle of next of that final week, sort of five days around the clock designing what that would look like. How do you take, in our case, 193 courses taught by 124 professors. And in almost all of our cases or many of our cases, courses that are fieldwork-based that are technology-intensive. And how do we, in a very short period of time, transform that into remote learning environments? And so that was sort of stage one. And then stage two was the latter part of that week. President Crowe announced on that Wednesday afternoon, late Wednesday afternoon, that we would be going remote the following Monday. We had been on spring break because that was actually an advantage. And then we spent 96 hours working with our faculty. And I'll tell you, Tori, it was so inspiring to see our faculty members, some of whom have had online experiences, many of whom have not completely immersed themselves in this new world to become experts in a remarkably short period of time. So by 7.30 Monday morning, we were ready to go. Yeah, so as somebody who co-teaches a Cronkite course opinion writing, I was just really blown away by the amount of support that you had set up for us. I'm lucky enough to be a Zoom alum or a Zoom veteran. But it's certainly not easy the first time you're getting used to it. So I mean, what did that look like from your end? I mean, did you hear a lot of anxiety from instructors or from students? Well, I can tell you exactly, Tori, because on launch day, which was a week ago yesterday at 7.30 in the morning, which are very first classes, we created in which we still have a command center upstairs on the fourth floor where we had all of our deans and all of our IT people monitoring every Zoom class. With the technology, of course you can do that. And that gave us the ability to sort of peek in, see who was, you know, who looked like they were going, you know, no problems at all. Who was struggling, and we were able to adjust that in real time. And I guess the part that surprised me most was the overwhelming majority of our faculty, they got it. You know, they were off and running. We were, you know, hands off. And there were some folks, as you can imagine, and I'm sure if I was teaching a class, I would be one of them, who struggled quite a bit. But we saw that right away. So, you know, three minutes into the first class, we were able to jump in and say, Oh, Professor Smith, you know, the mute button's on the left or some of the mechanical things that really helped. We continue that. We continue that for three intensive days with all the deans, all the IT people, continuing monitoring every class that we offered. And then it became pretty clear that people were getting it and we were able to weed off of that. I was relieved for somebody to remind me in the first couple of minutes to record my class, which I was just so grateful everyone had showed up that I briefly forgot, I think. So, I mean, so you've provided lots of support for faculty, but what about students? So, I mean, obviously everyone was on spring break, which helped ease the transition I bit, but it's certainly been disorienting for them. So, I mean, what have you done in terms of communicating with the students and answering their concerns? Yeah, and this is, and Tori, you're 100% right. I mean, this is hard for everybody, but I think if you're 20 years old, away from home and being in a setting where you're used to being in a completely social setting, where literally you have hundreds of friends around you at a given point in time to go from that to this was a dramatic difference. So, we immediately as soon as that first announcement came out on late Wednesday afternoon from President Crow, we started messaging our students. We had open zoom meetings at the beginning multiple times a day, and then slowly just every day. And now we're only doing them a couple of times a week. But at the very beginning, just to give students the opportunity to talk, to express their concerns and for us to communicate to them directly. In addition, every night I wrote, and I continue to do this every night I wrote a letter to our students, our faculty, although now Dean Kuchy has taken that over, and to our parents. And I think, Tori, of course, we're biased, right, we think the world's problems can be solved from communications, right. But an awful lot of them can. And I think, if anything, we probably over communicated but I would rather do that than the opposite. It gave people the opportunity to express themselves. And the parents, I'll tell you Tori, the parent groups was very interesting. This over the last, it's been 17 days now, the students, you know, they're on the academic side, they're fine. We'll talk about the isolation side, academic side, they're fine. The parents, of course, continue to be concerned. There's a lot of issues that are that are surrounding them that they're trying to have some help on. So, so again, I, you know, I wrote to them every night. I wrote to dozens of them individually every day. But then we started doing zooms for the parents. And in part to say, this is what you're, you know, this is how your student is now learning to give them a little bit of a sense of it, but also have them give them the ability to talk one on one to me concerns they had. We did one last week, we had 40 parents on the zoom, which I thought was a lot. And then a couple said, you know, I missed it, can we do another one. So we did another one on Sunday afternoon, and I had 125 parents on the zoom for an hour and a half. So what that's all me is, we need to communicate even more about this because it's completely uncharted waters for everybody. I'm concerned about their child's education is quite frankly one of a whole series of concerns they have during this crisis. So if nothing else we're trying to alleviate and address some of those challenges. You see, you mentioned the isolation. I mean one thing that has struck me about ASU is the decision to allow students to remain on campus is that that's correct. Yeah. It's a great question, Tory was not I mean different universities are handling that in different ways. Um, our university and I think this was this was our leadership's decision and I think it was exactly the right one, which was twofold. If you can go home. We're encouraging you to do that. But if you can't, then we will stay open for you and we will be here for you and Tory, I mean you know ASU we pride ourselves on inclusion. We have all sorts of different students. We have international students who physically couldn't get home. We have students, we have, you know, so many Pell eligible students who are from families where during the academic year, this is their home. It may have no place else to go to so we thought that was important and we continue to do the same thing. If you if you can go home safely, please do. If not, we're here for you. The cafeteria is open and we will be here to support you and that's what's been happening. Not surprisingly, in our downtown Phoenix campus, we yesterday we were down to about 12% of our overall population. So most had gone home, but the ones who can't are really need our our our care so we're going over every day. We're checking on them delivering care packages and the like it basically just to reach out to make sure that they're doing okay. That's wonderful. So I mean obviously as a journalism school, Cronkite is heavily invested in reporting. I'm lucky that I teach a class that is not as reporting focused but obviously this is a really big challenge for instructors who encourage students to get out and talk to people on the street and report with vivid details so can you talk a little bit about how instructors are handling that situation. It's a great point Tori and and I'll preface it by saying, well, my discipline is particularly challenging in this environment right and I'm sure everybody says that, but of course I really believe it. To your point, much of our curriculum is around surrounding both technology and working in the field. So we had to make some very early decisions at the beginning, and they were all guided by our by our two main principles. We had two goals, we still only have two goals. One, the health and safety of our students. That is the priority. Number two, the continuing robust education at the very highest level of our students. More often than not those two things don't conflict, obviously in this environment they very much do. So we made some decisions early on, we sit, we to even the playing field. We closed out our equipment room so we have all these wonderful cameras that students can take out. We didn't want to do that, in part because many students weren't here. We didn't want to give an advantage to some students over another. And more importantly, we don't want students in the field. We want students in at their homes. It's so important for all Americans right when you can to be at home, and we did not want to encourage our students to go out. We made a policy that we would have no assignments in the field, and we wouldn't even accept work that you've done in the field. Because one of the, and you've seen this story with your students, our students are so enthusiastic, are so driven that they want to go out. And if you say, well, you know, you can go out, but only this far, that to me that opens up the floodgates where they would all be out in the field. They would all be interacting with people putting themselves at some risk and putting their families at some risk. So we just essentially just shut that down. But there's been a lot of benefits to that. And it really has forced our students to be really creative in storytelling. Like it is, like this is a perfect example to write to your home, right, doing, you know, doing this, this zoom for your audience. You know, you weren't doing that previously, but it's an effective way. And it's an innovative way to creative way. That's what we want our students to be doing. And that's what they're starting. I mean, it's particularly challenging because this is a pretty exciting news event, right? I mean, as a journalist, you want to be out there and covering it and being engaged, even when that might not be the best thing for a variety of reasons. I mean, how is the state press, the student paper continue to operate in these circumstances. Yeah, now the state press and a lot of our student media are independent. So, you know, we certainly can't dictate what they do. We've given them our best advice that I think they are hearing to it, which is report, like many of us are doing now, reports from home. And I'll tell you, Tori, as we start to see this unfold, we're seeing students really adapting and showing how nimble they can be. And we're seeing students finding really creative and innovative ways to tell stories. And we're finding students who are just persevering, who are taking the situation and say, I'm going to get the story no matter what. And when you think about those dimensions of a person of a potential employee of adaptability and creativity and perseverance. Well, you know, you could argue that those are three of the most important elements for any employee in a 21st century fast moving digital world. Forget the situation right now, but in general, so I think in a weird way, this is actually going to be a benefit to some of these students. So when they go out and talk to editors like you around the country who are doing hiring. They can show not only their great storytelling, but how they did it facing these unbelievable challenges and restrictions driven by coronavirus. So I mean you mentioned the students who are able to persevere and certainly we've seen lots of them who are hugely impressive but when it comes to the students or maybe a little bit more shaken up. You know we've seen calls. I think there might have been a petition at ASU and beds and such from both students and some professors arguing that every class should be passed fail or every student should get an A this semester or there should be curves. I mean how are how have you thought about whether greeting needs to accommodate extenuating circumstances for everybody. And I appreciate you asking that I can tell you what we've messaged our faculty, which is in terms of pass fail. Well, we actually haven't missed a day of school, and we're continuing on the same with the same standards we had in place before so in my mind there's no reason to go to a pass fail as we as we continue throughout the rest of this semester. And I'm sorry your other. It was the past fail and then we'll fail. I think there was a piece in the post calling for a use for everybody and I think there's a petition maybe at ASU specifically for occur. Well, I think students are probably missing using the notion of a curve because of course there will be some a is that means some bad grades on the other end. But what we've told our faculty is our standards our Cronkite school standards are not changing what I own. How we deliver the content how we interact with our students has changed dramatically. And because of the situation that our students are facing. We're asking them to use their best judgment in individual cases, because individual cases some students are facing challenges that others aren't. We want to be separate a sympathetic to those want to be empathetic to those. And I know our faculty will do exactly that. But if we have to change a deadline or or or reconfigure an assignment. I know our faculty are doing that, but there's a big difference in my mind between doing that and lowering the standards and and I think lowering the standards will be a disservice to our students. And I will tell you, I haven't heard and I've talked to a lot of students, you know of our 1400 on the ground students. I haven't heard a single one, say, Dean Callahan, can you, you know, can we go past fail? Can we go which is, I know it's out there but haven't heard a single student. I mean, and you mentioned ASU having a great population of people who receive health grants. It's a school that really values diversity and inclusivity, you know, but with that come students who may not have access to the same technology at home as maybe in other institutions. So I mean, what has Cronkite been doing to support students who may not have broadband access at home or might not have devices to do their work on. Yeah, it's a great question and it's a real issue for us, Tori, as you know, because so many of our courses are technology driven. The first thing we did through our fantastic CTO at the university, who contacted the CEO of Adobe, was able to work out an agreement where every one of our students can download the entire Adobe suite, which is a big part of what our students use for editing and, you know, audio editing, video editing, web creation and all that for free. So that's, that was, that was a huge benefit. And then we got on a daily basis, multiple times a day through us through the faculty, ask students, what do you need. If you don't have a computer at home, or a laptop, or internet access, you need to let us know. And the university leapt into action and our IT team leapt into action. And we were able to deliver to every student who didn't have a laptop, didn't have a computer at home, a laptop. And we were able to deliver to every student who didn't have connectivity, a prepaid for hotspot, that will cover them through the rest of the semester. And it was, and that has been a huge advantage. Took a couple of days, right, to get the list to get the, you know, to get the computers out and the like, but our folks work really hard on it. And as of right now, I think the last laptop went out. Yesterday was Sunday. So all of those students now have full access because your point is well taken. It's not everybody did. Absolutely. Do they have to keep the laptops? These are loners. And when everything is back to normal, they will give back the laptop and be able to enjoy their rest of their education here as they were previously. Yeah, so I'm glad you said back to normal because that's something I've been thinking about a lot, which is so classes are online for the rest of the semester. We don't really know at what point the crisis is going to sort of settle down and allow for some sort of return to normality. And so, I mean, how are you thinking about the sort of long term consequences of this? Do you think that this is going to sort of encourage more of a shift toward online education in general? Or what do you see as sort of ramifications for this bizarre experiment that we've all been forced into? Yeah, you know, and I know now, to be honest with you, I have not given those a lot of thought. It's an acute situation right now, yes. A little bit more in the moment. But I could certainly projecting ahead, I would anticipate all sorts of great lessons from this new technologies. As you know, sort of online distance learning has been growing and growing. This is growing in a different way. I think that I think we will be incorporating a lot of lessons we've learned. But do I think that then, you know, starting, you know, in six months, all education will be online? No, I don't believe so. And Tori, it's interesting because when we say, you'll notice I don't use the word online education, because what we're doing is not what most people think of as online. And as you know, ASU is a very robust series of degrees online, fully online, and those are fantastic. That's asynchronous learning. Right, so that is people who are usually, you know, adults who are, you know, working, have families, what have you, have a lot of flexibility. They don't have to be at a class at a particular day or time. They can come in and out and engage with the course content at any point in time. It gives them a lot of flexibility. This is different. This is what I am calling remote learning, where our, so your class meets the same time, your class always meets with the same professors and the same students. And really, the only difference is instead of meeting in a physical classroom, you're meeting in a remote environment. That's actually very different from what is typically thought of as an online class. And I think that made the transition easier, I think for a lot of professors and a lot of students who were used to that. And I think it's, and I'm stressing this point of synchronous remote learning, because I think it's really important to the students. Our students have gone from having unbelievably packed schedules, where they have something going on every minute of every day to gone. They're at home with their parents or they're at home in an apartment, completely isolated with literally all the time in the world on their hands. And that's not good. So the notion that they still have to go to your class, you know, at, you know, Tuesday at three or whatever time it is, I think that's actually in this environment with everything else going on. I think that's an advantage. So have you seen anything happening at other universities that you've been really excited about in terms of these transitions to remote learning that you think maybe we could learn from. Not that they're not out there. You know, I have been, I have been trying to keep up. But also, and this is going to sound, this is going to sound terrible, but I will say it anyway. We have an advantage here at ASU. I mean, this is the most innovative university in the world. A lot of the things that we were able to do, we were able to do because a lot of the technology and a lot of the culture was already here. And I will tell you, sort of thinking about it the other way, I've had a lot of colleagues from around the country call me and say, what is Cronkite doing, what is ASU doing? I think because I think that we're considered a bit of a leader in that space. That sounds really arrogant when I say that loud and I don't mean it to. And that's not to say that there aren't other universities doing fantastic things that we haven't even thought of. That's my weekend project. I was curious that if there were like a slack workspace or something where all the deans of the journalism schools come together to share advice regularly. Yeah, and there's not, there should be, but there's not, yes, maybe we don't play well with each other. I don't know. It's the the competitiveness of journalism. Yes, I could be. I have just one or two more questions and then we've got some really great questions coming in to. Hey, were there any other options that ASU considered besides moving to this sort of remote? I mean, was there ever any thought about just canceling classes altogether or? I can't say that definitively because I wasn't in the room for those conversations. I would be shocked if there was a second of time spent on canceling classes. I think it was again what's most important is what are our guiding principles and these two guiding principles have been with us from the beginning of this, which is health and safety of our students, continuing robust education of our students. So, you know, I can't say it was never came up but I have to be really surprised. I'm looking forward to some of the, the reporting that will no doubt come out of all of this, you know, someone's going to write a really great book about probably three people because the books always come out at the same time right. That's right. Gonna be really interesting to see how all of this plays out in those those long narratives that will certainly come out. That's right. All right, so let's move to our first questions. Someone has asked how does evaluating student performance change or mean the same can be GPA as BC is accurate learning during this time and you addressed it a little bit but you know in terms of the GPA and what does this sort of do to us students kind of whole transcript. Yeah, it's a great question and I can only speak for it in our context, which is, if we do this the way we want to should not change it at all. Because again, sort of the learning outcomes for each course remain unchanged. The standards remain unchanged. How we get there is changing. And, and I think our flexibility to be understanding of certain students situations are, you know, could be, you know, should be different. But at the end of the day. No, I don't think the evaluation should be any different at all. Someone else has asked no assignments in the field. How robust can experience evaluation be for their degrees awarded. Oh, you would be, you would be surprised. So, so I would ask, I would ask your viewers to go to the Cronkite news website. And as Tori knows this that we have more than 100 students any given semester with about 15 editors working full time on this Cronkite news experience. We have news operations in Phoenix, Washington and Los Angeles. And just take a look. I would just say, let the report speak for itself. So if you go to Cronkite news dot az pbs dot org, you will find the content, you will see what they're doing with these constraints. And it's not unlike what you see a lot of other reporters around around the country doing, which is, is a lot of them can't go out. There was a wonderful story that I said to our students yesterday from the New York Times, talking about reporting from home. Yeah, slate was in that. Yes. Was that right. I thought it was a great story and these are students I want to make sure students are understood it's not just you. It's, you know, this is the world. And again, this gives you the ability to show how adaptable you are to this sudden challenge and how creative you can be in finding new solutions. I mean, one thing that really impressed me was one of our colleagues for Nanda Santos had her students come up with a whole list of ways that they could report remotely, which was really exciting to see. Yeah, and Kristen Gilbert is actually writing a story about this to share with everybody here, because and you've seen this story on the slack on the, on the canvas page where everybody sharing their ideas. Really cool, really interesting creative ideas to tell stories. So somebody else asks how will this change admission approaches for 2020 to 21 for those who have had less access to activities and standardized testing. Yeah, it's a great question different universes are dealing with dealing with it in different ways. What we're doing, I mean, we're fortunate in some way in that the application period is largely over. And now we're focusing on what we call yield right so of the students who have been admitted, who's going to wind up coming. And typically what happens this time of year is the students come, they come to campus they talk to professors they talk to other students they walk around, they get a feel for it, we know and obviously we can't do a lot of that now. So my colleague Mark Lodato, who is one of our associate deans is now in the process working with Ken Hopkins over in admissions at the university level, creating virtual experiences. So we're going to have these these virtual tours, these virtual conversations with students who have been admitted, and they're looking at where they want to go to in the future. I think how well we do that, and how well other universities do that will dictate in large part what their next year's freshman class looks like. Do you have a hunch of how, how things might change. I think I do if I had to guess, because this is so new. I think some schools will adapt to this very quickly and do a really good job of reaching out in very different ways to show these prospective students what it's like to be a student in this case, and I think others who are working quite frankly in the older slower modality will have a very difficult time. And I think both of those dimensions will be reflected in what next year's freshman class looks like across the board. So someone else is curious a little bit more about the pros and cons of remote learning I think we've talked a lot about the pros and adaptability but I mean are there certain drawbacks that you know we just have to be realistic and acknowledge. Well sure, but I will certainly in the case of the technology right because you don't have your hands on the technology that's a drawback. Again, I would draw a distinction between traditional online learning and the remote learning that we're doing now the asynchronous versus the synchronous. And I do think that makes a difference. I think the difference between a traditional on the ground class and a traditional online asynchronous class is pretty dramatic. And some people love one environment versus the other. And some people hate one environment versus the other. So the differences there are pretty stark it depends a lot on your learning styles quite frankly. In the case of what we're doing moving from this on the ground experience to this remote real time experience. It's there's more similarities. There's more similarity. So I think. So I think there are certainly challenges the biggest challenge being having all of our professors up and running on how to deliver this. But not as many, I think not as many challenges and not as many differences, as you might think intuitive. So someone has asked a question. It says I was lucky to have smaller classes this semester but I'm not sure I would have been comfortable with a posse of deans deciding to watch my class for where I was going grievously wrong, just as I was learning how to do this. Did you get any anxiety about the Dean pin off to come from faculty. Absolutely fair. We made it very clear that we're there for technological reasons only. We just needed more eyeballs and there's always so many people I could I could drag into the command center. And I think our faculty sort of know us well enough to know that we're there to help them and and I'll tell you it's or you know and I'll tell that very good. A questioner. It takes about three minutes at the beginning of one of these classes to figure out. You know, literally the ones I was watching, you know, there were some I saw, you know, 60 seconds and I'm like, she's fine, but let's go to the next one. And there were others, there were others we actually dispatched it folks to work with them one on one, the faculty members, because they were understandably, they were nervous and never done it before. It's really with technology so it's not, you know, it's certainly not a criticism it's understandable and as I mentioned before Tory, I guarantee you, if I was teaching a class this semester I would be on that side of the group, not the folks who are proficient. And again, once we once we realized for the folks who were fine and ready to go. We, we zoomed out and focused on the ones who who really needed help. And in our case and tour you know this, a lot of our faculty members are professional journalists who are adjunct professors who are only here on campus when they're here for three hours for their three hour class each week. And that's really a curve ball for them. Right, I mean they're still, you know, they're trying to get back to their job with the newsroom. They're they're not steeped in in teaching as a profession. They needed more than a little bit of help and support. So, a lot of that was was focused on that, not exclusively but a lot. I would also say as someone who has now taught classes with the panopticon supposedly in action. My sort of impression was that you guys just have way too much going on to say, Well, you know, when you were talking about structured this time. I really disagree. It seemed like you had other things to deal with at the moment. I think that's absolutely true, Tori, but I would add to that. If this was a normal time and we had all the time in the world, we still wouldn't do that because we're not the experts. Right, you're, you know, in your class, you're the expert, you're the driver, you know, infinitely more about that than any of us. So we just, our job is put to the put the right master teachers in with the right students and let them do their thing. You have to be edited. So, you know, if you have suggestions for me that you happen to see next time you pop in. Sure you I won't. Somebody else has asked how were the international students who were able to travel home able to keep up with the synchronous remote learning schedule due to time zone challenges, especially those in Asia. Have you seen many international students return home. It's a great question. We don't have a ton of international students here. Our big international cohort, as you know, is our Humphrey fellows and I talked to them yesterday. So this is for our audience members who probably don't know the State Department runs a program called the Humphrey Fellowship Program in different disciplines all around the country. I think there are about a dozen of them in different major universities. We're host to the journalism program. They're all mid career, I would like to say young mid career mid career journalists from developing countries they spend a year with us. And I was talking to them yesterday, very concerned about them. The State Department is leaving it up to them but basically is shutting down the program. So that's, that's painful because that program, we're going to continue what we were doing with it, but the, but the thrust of it will no longer be so that was, that's probably our, been our biggest international cohort that's been affected the most. Yes, we're looking up to have four Humphrey fellows in our class and they've just been invaluable contribution to the learning environment for everybody. And I will say a lot of our international students have not gone home because it's actually safer to be here than where they were going to obviously we have lots to China and other parts of the world where all things being considered this is probably the better place to be. Somebody has asked what's with the cool typewriter. Thank you for asking. This is one of my few hobbies I collect old typewriters been doing this for years. And when we moved into this beautiful building at the Cronkite School in downtown Phoenix. I had about a dozen of them in various stages of just repair all around our house and my wife, being the unbelievable generous person she is. She said, you need to share this with everybody else. So now all the typewriters here in this building. That's one most of them are downstairs in our little museum of news. It's very cool if you're in Phoenix and the Cronkite building is open I highly recommend looking at the typewriters. See somebody asks, have there been discussions about how as you will react to looming state cuts. How, how might ASU prioritize potential funds from the federal government for higher education through the stimulus package currently being negotiated. Yeah, and I will say that's that's a decision but was it was the first question about state government cuts. Yes, so I can I can address that one just contextually. Like many state universities in the country, our investment from the state has decreased over time. So right now, I believe we get about nine, nine or 10% of our overall funding from the state. When I came here, it was about 40%. So in some ways, the, the overall reduction of state funding to places like ASU, when something, you know, when a when a challenge comes up like this, it actually becomes less impactful because it sounds terrible but there's less to cut. In terms of how we would use, hopefully, how we would use lots of new federal stimulus money I would, I would leave that to to my boss and I know he would, he will deploy those resources very smart. So, I'm not sure you'll want to take the bait on this but can a university, a large one like McGill in Canada that had not sufficiently invested in technology and culture, simply returned to the way things were with teaching and learning after this disruption. Do you want to point to any schools you think have done a really terrible job here. You know what, and if there were, I would, if I knew about them, I would tell you, I honestly have been had my head in the sand a little bit on, on a lot of the mechanics here, you know, we're working about 18 hours a day. This is, and thank you again, Tori for inviting me. This is by far the most fun that I've had in two and a half weeks. So, so no, I have not given that any thought at all. Sorry. I mean, you probably have given thought to, given the economic uncertainties related to the pandemic. How do you prepare your students to enter an industry that's already riddled with economic uncertainty that comes from a Cronkite graduate and so you can tell. Yeah, yeah, and, and, and as our alums know we're very professional school. So we're very career focused. We are in the process now during this period, one of the additions that we're adding on to our extracurricular activities is bringing in more and more recruiters to try to talk to our students about exactly this. What is the, and it's hard to project, but what is the landscape it'll look like when this is over, we hope it's over in a fairly short period of time, but it'll be different. What will that look like? I cannot project what the, you know, what the news ecosystem is going to look like on the economics side. I can say that our students who have gone through this will actually be better positioned. And I truly believe that because of some of the things we talked about early because of their ability to be creative and to be adaptive and to show their level of grit, if you will. You know, that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. And it's, I know it's, I know it's not. But at the end of all this, I think our students will be better off. And, and also think about a journalism education and a lot of our alums know this, it prepares you for a great career in journalism and virtually everything else, right. So, so in an information world, you know, what hopefully you're getting from a Cronkite experience is how to think critically, how to think analytically, how to find information, how to wait and evaluate it and synthesize it and disseminate it. And all those things, that's what journalism is, but it's also a big part of what almost all other jobs are. And there's an awful lot of people out there who don't do that very well. And so, so the skills that you learned in this sort of setting, I think are very transferable to, to a lot of other things, a lot of other sectors. In a sort of different vein, somebody asks, more people are now teaching online making online education platforms like zoom an important part of the educational infrastructure. There's sufficient communication between the users and these platforms right now. So are you in regular conversations with zoom. I mean, how's that relationship going. Yeah, and I certainly our CTO and our university technology companies are. We were early on like we are many things that ASU out in front on the technology, particularly with the relationship with zoom. I believe we had one of the first enterprise wise enterprise wide partnerships and licenses with zoom. I can't I can't speak for laughs but my guess is he is talking regularly to them I would be surprised if that was the case. I can tell you it's held up very well with all of this use. I have not heard one report of, you know, Oh, it's too much. It's crashing. I mean, it's at least from the ASU and it's, it's, it's remarkably stable. Yeah, even my Zumba class is on zoom now so it's, it's very versatile. Are there any other sort of platforms or technologies that you think we should pay more attention to going forward. Well, I'm sure there are. And I would leave that to my technology friends to to advise better on but but I will say as we're talking about zoom and remind me of one other thing Tory that might be worth mentioning. We went through this process of, you know, safety first for the students, and then and then the curriculum and delivering that that we very quickly moved to this third part. That was of great concern, which is how do we how do we fight the isolation that these students are feeling so one of our one of our great faculty members Melanie Alvarez, along with some other folks here created last week something called the Cronkite Cafe. And what that is the series of extracurricular remote activities that can engage students outside of the classroom, because even, you know, so a full a full class schedule is 15 hours a week. And they're being asked to stay home. There is there are being asked not to socialize with their friends. So we wanted to create an environment where they can reconnect with some of their Cronkite colleagues, and in a positive way. So I mentioned before our professional programs were, you know, bringing in speakers and recruiters and like, but then also what Melanie, what Melanie did was in the Cronkite Cafe created a whole bunch of kind of fun recreational activities. So we hired to to our graduate students who were certified yoga instructors who had just gotten laid off because of all of this. And now they do yoga every day on zoom for our Cronkite students on on the weekend we did. And we're doing this regularly now. The pets of Cronkite where people just so much sort of come online and show their dogs and I was I was showing chase and it's sort of silly things, but it's just a way to remember that we need to connect to each other, despite despite the challenges and I think as this continues that effort to help our students say stay socialized is going to grow grow in importance. I think my cat must have jumped up and knocked down my notes just so that she could remind me that I need to take part and show her off to Cronkite at some point. She was having some foam I suppose. So I think that we're just about ready to wrap up is there anything else you'd like to sort of say before we sign off. Well, sorry. First of all, thanks for thanks for doing this. This was, I really, I really enjoyed it. I always always enjoy talking to you. And it's so important and I just love your forward look on all of this and this is a, this is a challenging time for everybody's challenging time for our country. But I think, and certainly we tell our students this regularly need to stay positive need to focus on in this case, you know, continuing our education and taking care of each other. And unfortunately, that means the best thing you can do is stay home and stay home and I should. And if I could, because it looks very hypocritical of me to say everybody should stay home except I'm at work. And I will so just just in complete transparency. So by tomorrow in this building, which usually has, you know, about 1500 people in it on a given day will be down to 12. Arizona PBS, which as Tori knows is part of our operation. We think it's important to keep that up and running. We're actually moving our public affairs show to the host house in Phoenix starting tomorrow. But we think that's important to keep going. And I feel I'm in a position where if I'm asking people to leave their homes to come to work, then I need to be here. And so until and that's a so I just didn't want to leave people with this impression that well yeah he's telling everybody to stay home but he's at work it's that's the, that's the rationale. Got it. See, I didn't even occur to me somehow which is wrong I should have thought about that and it's your office. Well thank you so much for joining us you know one thing I neglected to mention earlier is that this is your last semester at ASU. And so thank you for what should have maybe been an easy period has gotten a little bit more exciting so thank you for all that you've done in the past few weeks. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Thanks. And thank you all for coming to joining us for the social distancing social we have several more of these plans. Tomorrow at 4pm Eastern will be hosting a discussion as part of our free speech project called confronting viral disinformation featuring Jennifer Daskell director of American University is Washington College of Laws tech law and security program. Danielle Citrone, the Carther fellow and the author of hate crimes and cyberspace and Nathaniel Glitcher who's the head of security policy for Facebook. And then on Thursday again at 4pm will hold a conversation called not exactly the best time to ration kids or your screen time question mark with late Stan Coise and with Lisa currency director of New America's tech learning teaching learning and tech program. So thank you all for joining us hope to see you again tomorrow and Thursday at four and thank you Dean Callahan. Thank you sorry. Bye everybody.