 Okay, you're welcome back. It's still the run-up, and I still have a standing by here. We're going to talk about a lot of things that made the news and which are connected in some way to the 2023 election, beginning from the bullion vans that went into Baudelogne that said missed the address and went into Baudelogne, Tinnobu's house. The Lagos State Organizing Secretary of the All Progressive Congress, A.P.C. Ayodele Adewali, has claimed that the bullion vans spotted the residents of Achiwajubola, Tinnobu, on the eve of the 2019 presidential election, missed their way. According to him, the bullion van had been put to rest. The bullion van matter had been put to rest long time ago, and it said there was no money in the bullion van. Remember, Bayo, that it was said that Achiwajubola himself said the bullion van, redesigning of the Naira and so many other things happening right now, are targeted at him. Now, we heard that the chief ten of the A.P.C. said that the bullion van missed its way to Baudelogne, and that has been put to rest. I don't know what your take on that is. What would be your response to that? Well, I would have loved to know the context in which the A.P.C. chief ten made that statement. The reason is because if it was a question posed to him, and then he was responding, which I assume, then maybe it's understandable. Understandable in the sense that from a public communication point of view, I don't think the A.P.C. should have gone to revisit the issue of the bullion van because it was something that is rather embarrassing. And also, if what was attributed to Achiwajubola himself after that incident was true, because I think some sections of the media reported that he said he would put his money anywhere he wanted. I don't know if that was true, but if it was, and then now to now say the bullion van missed their way, I think it's just bringing back the matter into public consciousness. And I assume that A.P.C. would rather that this matter never came back into public consciousness, but they have put it right back into public consciousness. And it's going to be an issue of people who start talking about, I mean, right now we're talking about it on the program because people are already talking about it. So it is the first time I'm hearing that the bullion van missed its way. I assume that bullion vans would know specifically where they were headed, given the kind of consignment or the kind of cargo that they normally would carry. So having said that much, bringing back the matter is just reopening, if you like, reopening old wounds. And of course, this is a political season, the adversaries, political adversaries of Achiwajubola would latch onto this and would of course try to make a mountain out of it and keep it in the public eye. So I think it's rather untoward that this matter has come up again for the A.P.C. Yeah. Well, the question was, it stemmed from wood buying and so many other things surrounding that and how money is being spent during elections and all that. But I wasn't even worried because like he said, the bullion van matter has been laid to rest. Not really that it has been laid to rest, but we've heard over and over again and if we have been angry, we've been angry for so long that we have forgotten how to be angry about it anymore. But what worried me that a new perspective I had about it is if a publicity secretary or any kind of secretary for that matter or any kind of spokesman for that matter will come out, even if you need to lie, you know, there are ways to go about it that someone will still be comfortable that I know it is not the truth, but at least you're diplomatic enough. So the question I was asking myself is, is it not high time that people in government, people in power, people that matter, people that have that VIPs in our society start thinking about who represents them, like publicists, professionals who can talk for them, know what to say, choose their words rightly, because it's like that aspect of their lives or the lives of a lot of big men in quote, in Nigeria has been taken for granted that anybody can talk for you and they keep making the blunders that they make all the time or how can you in all honesty trying to defend something and you say a bullion van on the one hand had missed its way, on the other hand, it was empty. How did you know that it was empty? Will a bullion van that just missed its way to your house, for instance, just come and open its, open its bowels and show you that it's not carrying money? How did they even know about it? So what worried me is the fact that people who are public figures allow just anybody to represent them and talk for them and it becomes a worrisome thing because in every climb among all kinds of people there are always maybe some blunders that their principals have made but at least they manage this because poor management of it not only damages the reputation or the picture of his principal but it also affects a lot of other people who either follow or look up to him and so many other things are surrounding that poor representation as it is. So shouldn't they start to look critically at the functions of publicists and people who are professional enough to represent them? Should we continue like this and they'll be taking it for granted all the time? That's what gave me worry by bio. I don't know. No, you're spot on. There are quite a number of issues related to the point you just made. The first is that there are levels of authority when it comes to public communication. I mean for all responsible organizations, you have your designated spokesperson and below or outside of those spokesperson, certain other officials can speak. It's just that they would need to know what they can speak about and what they need to refer to maybe somebody higher or the right person who is designated to handle all public engagement and public interaction. The second thing is that principal figures if you allow me to use that phrase, principal figures now I use it to refer to anyone who is in authority and would be expected to make statements like governors, like presidents, like CEO of companies, local government chapters and so on and so forth. This principal figures often times especially in an environment where public communication is not well structured. They want to speak about it all and everything. They should not actually speak about everything. If I give you an example, the Niger Railway Corporation has been, was in the news some time ago when the attack on the train, the Abu Jaqadina train, when that attack took place and the official who was speaking for the Niger Railway Corporation was the managing director himself and I kept asking myself, don't they have a public relations manager or a public communications person in the Niger Railways because most of the comments that the CEO of the NRC was making were just unbelievable, unbelievable and it linked to what you just said about perhaps a nonchalance of public figures or principal figures as to what they say to people. Even what they say now, forgetting that what you say now may be quoted 5 years from now or it may be quoted 10 years from now, which makes it absolutely necessary for you to have some structure in place. The gentleman who has easily said, I am not competent to speak on that matter or I will refer this issue to the competent person and you will be hearing from us on that. Are you buying time? Are you reflecting? And then you respond. So not just them, it's something which I have seen is endemic around us. That's why I cited the example of the Niger Railways but it's very important that there should be structure for public communication and public interaction. Yeah, very right because sometimes you hear some things that are being said and the first question is that did the handlers, that's the word that they use, did the handlers not think about this? They should have known better so that he wouldn't have to do this or to say this. And so the next president that we're going to have next governors, next houses of representatives and houses of representatives if rather members and senators, whoever is in the public glare that will be saying things. Policy statements and so many other things that affect our lives should not take this department as it were for granted because statements that are made, like you said, they will endure sometimes longer than you have to stay on this earth that some people will still quote today that have gone long before even we were born but those statements have stood the test of time. They better be the right ones and so like we're saying don't take that for granted. So if you're going to be my president tomorrow or my governor tomorrow, let the utterances be well thought out so that when they are delivered it will give me some kind of consolation even if I'm not getting satisfied in whatever I'm asking for, at least let the professionals help. Okay, well let's not talk about that because some people might even misunderstand it and say okay they're asking for people to come to broadcast us and take them. We're not necessarily the publicists but not necessarily the publicists but if you find someone who is intelligent enough who can put the right words in the right context for people to hear it will be good to employ that kind of a person. Like one of my lecturers used to say meanings are in people not in words but since you cannot and yeah yes go ahead and the truth is if you if you are running for public office or even if you are I mean depending on what might have happened in the organization you know you basically have to first of all look at all the potential negative things that have happened list them out reflect on them all develop answers okay we call them reactive lines you develop reactive lines and those reactive lines are distributed to all those who may miss the press and may have to speak so that you are all seeing the same thing. So if somebody asks us a question about the run-up as a program what I am going to say to that person and what you Yambu will say to that person or what Ruchi will say to that person is going to be consistent because we've reflected and we've come up with a reactive line you know so they need to look at all the reactive lines you know when for instance example I cited before the MD of the Niger Railway Corporation when they asked him the intelligence services reportedly told you not to run the train service in the night in the late evening he admitted that the intelligence services told them not to do that but guess what his answer was they said and why did you run the service he said do you want to deprive Nigerians of the opportunity of benefiting from the train service that was preposterous I mean people had been abducted because he ran the train service so I'm sorry to to cite that and without prejudice to the Niger Railway Corporation I'm just using this as an example to illustrate our point that public communication is a very serious thing you know and more so in the political environment so it's always good to do the proper checks and develop the proper reactive lines before people engage with the public okay well there seemed to be a battle against independent monetary policy the CBN and the House of Reps right now I don't know is it a battle well but the House of Reps has threatened that they are going to maybe issue a warrant of arrest for the CBN governor because it appeared to be a raging battle against the independence of the of the central bank of Nigeria now he has been invited several times as we hear and he has not appeared before the the House and they're now threatening that he will be arrested if he fails to do so now the issue is whether he will bend to whatever they are saying they are saying that he should extend the date for the exchange of Naira knows how do I even put it God willing if he is insisting that the January 31 deadline for facing out the old 200 500 and 1000 Naira banknotes would not be the altered and the CBN has operational and monetary policy independence but the speaker of the House of Representatives honorable honorable family by Jabia Mila threatened to invoke relevant sections of the law to issue a warrant of arrest on MFLA and bank chief executive officers should they refuse to appear before it at her committee that was set up to interrogate the central bank and the CEOs on the Naira redesigned project and the January 31 deadline but Jabia Mila insisted that the CBN must heed the call of Nigerians and allow the old banknotes to remain in use alongside the newly redesigned currencies so as not to jeopardize the economy and impoverish the people and I'm just wondering when do we draw the line between independence of an agency and what the House of Reps is trying to make to look like the general good of the people like Nigerians according to them are complaining that they should extend the the deadline to maybe June or so and the CBN governor must appear otherwise he will be arrested now where does the independence of an agency start and stop because I don't know if the central bank of Nigeria is independent to what extent is it independent can it take its own decisions and not have the interference of the House of Reps or the general national assembly where am I getting it wrong here or confused rather no I don't think you're getting it wrong I think this is a matter of public interest especially since the national assembly itself which is in the presidential system that we operate we have three tiers of we have the executive the legislative and the judiciary and they are all autonomous the national assembly even have a national assembly service commission but the few staff who work for the national assembly okay they are not under the federal civil service they are independent even their own staff have their own national assembly service commission that is to underscore the independence of the national assembly having said that the national assembly does have oversize responsibilities but I believe strongly that the oversight responsibility of the national assembly also has some technical limitations if I use defense for example if the defense committee of the national assembly summons the uh say the chief of the aster and the chief of the aster because the chief of the aster for example says the air force has chosen to acquire a particular kind of fighter aircraft and the committee of the national assembly calls the chief of the aster and says you cannot acquire that kind of aircraft you have to acquire another type of aircraft right in the wisdom of the of the of the service a very technical service like the air force they know what they want they know why they are going for that right so they would have they would have to be some sort of respect you know as long as all the the transparency uh you know um and other checks you know in terms of acquisition of of equipment and all that have been followed I think the national assembly would have to respect the technical decision now I'm using that example and I hope it's not complicated because the central bank is autonomous and the central bank has right to monetary policy monetary policy sorry money yeah monetary policy while the federal government and the ministry of finance has control over fiscal policy now I have never heard that the chairman of the federal reserve in the US which is the equivalent of our own central bank when he decides to fix interest rates I've never heard that the US Congress will summon the chairman of the federal reserve and tell him where to fix interest rates or what percentage to fix as interest rates so if you would not challenge that I don't see why you would challenge the policy which is clearly within the poverty of the central bank and the the issue of summoning people to appear before the national assembly is well within the right of parliament because parliament makes those for the good governance of Nigeria you know but I have I know that there was a controversy some years ago when the national assembly summoned the controller general of customs Connell Ali if I'm right I think it's Connell Ali yeah current country retired Connell controller general of customs because there was a bank imposed on the importation of used cars and he was summoned to the nationalism okay he said I think there was there was some disagreement between them as when he was supposed to appear and when he he did appear this they decided he should go back and put on the customs uniform before yeah I remember this appearing before them and he never went back before the national assembly and then there are I remember Professor Ishe Sagi a well-known constitutional expert came up and spoke about analyzed the the the obligation of those who were summoned to appear before the and it's not even summoning I don't think the world is even summoning and from what place of sight you can invite somebody to help you better understand you know the policies that have been made or the policies you want to make so these issues came up and there was a lot of debate so we are seeing something similar now definitely I think the national assembly has a right to invite the central bank governor but I think the word and the spirit and letter of that invitation has to be civil and cannot be threatening because like you rightly said the central bank is autonomous yeah and that autonomy has been in existence up until now this is the first time I'm seeing this autonomy being seriously challenged on that present of us when the autonomy began the governor was soludo was governor I think it was the first civilian governor to be in that autonomy and and we've seen it you know uh go on even a mafia who is there now was appointed by president Jonathan and president why he respected that autonomy he didn't touch a mafia he inherited a mafia so I think we need not undermine the independence of our institutions you know while doing our constitution yeah I was also wondering if they have an ad hoc committee that has to oversee this why invite the well maybe I am wrong but why why not the ad hoc committee as part of its oversight functions or something go to the central bank of Niger governor to seek a more explanation to report back to the house is will it take anything from them will it take the the VIP from them will it take out anything from there being the national assembly because you have a group that should talk about these things and there's something that is not clear to the house if the house goes to the central bank of Nigeria does that mean it is belittling themselves or belittling the house I don't understand why the central bank of Nigeria governor will have to come to the national assembly to face an ad hoc committee in the national assembly it has to be in the national assembly I don't understand that much but like my people say when when a a small boy begins to talk anyhow to an elder watch the corners maybe there's another elder that is pushing him so he's strong because of the strength that he's finding from some way that you may not be able to see but in this case we seem to see that elder that might be pushing a mafia that will be explained in this video that we have of the president himself talking about the changing or the redesigning of these new notes and the deadline for the uh facing out of the other old notes let's just watch a bit for this change of currency I think there will be a lot of money but time has been given from october to december three months is enough whatever money you have to get it changed through a legal system so I don't know why people are complaining about it so despite the complaint there's no going back on the policy no they're not going back they're not going back my aim is to make sure that Nigerians believe that we respect them as an administration so Nigerians should vote for whoever they like from whichever party nobody will be allowed to mobilize resources and thugs to intimidate people in any constituency that's what I want to go down into Nigeria history for as a leader you are the chairman of the presidential campaign council of your party what are the chances of your party winning the elections what are the chances of my party not to win in the election we are going to this election tinibu uh the presidential candidate is a very well known politician in the country he was a two-times governor in in his state leagas resource wise the most uh resourceful state and the most visited state uh so I think the party was uh lucky to to get him except you know to be its candidate so how healthy is my president I'm very healthy okay uh well you saw that uh the president said the time was enough three months was enough from october till now the time was enough and immediately after saying that there wasn't any lapse in the in the video he just said um he doesn't want he he doesn't want anybody to be able to mobilize resources and thugs to do what they are not supposed to do he wants Nigerians to vote so now it gives us a clever picture why they redesign in the first place and the legacy that the president wants to be quit when he leaves office in may 20 uh 29 on may 29 2023 so time is long enough nobody should be able to mobilize resources and thugs to destabilize the election or to to win the election because of the resources and talks and all that so it gives us a picture like I said why all this is really happening so maybe that's why MFLA is strong enough to do what he is doing right now added to the fact that the autonomy of the central bank of Nigeria should be respected so if the president himself respects it then why not the national assembly absolutely and um the the cbn governor is autonomous he heads an autonomous institution but nonetheless he has to keep the president appraised of some of the policies of such an autonomous institution especially where those resources those policies may have an implication uh uh you know especially on national security uh there are two things we should not forget one there has been an ongoing policy if i can correct and i indeed i stand to be corrected uh uh called the cashless policy introduced by the cbn you know which limits the amount of cash people can carry with them and it was that policy that actually saw to the proliferation of the etm's and a high high commission on people who go and withdraw cash so the cashless policy is not new it's been there okay now what has happened now is of course they were designing and then people been told that if you had money outside of the system you need to go and bring it back and when the cbn gave figures as to how much they estimate is actually out there and how what percentage of that money that is out there is actually within the banking system i really didn't see people disagreeing with the cbn i didn't see and there was a huge amount of money outside of the banking system and we could see when the cbn insisted that it was not going to change the date we also various videos some we could not confirm but we saw various videos circulating of huge stacks of cash that people were moving around but even moving into the banks in order for them to change them we even saw some narrows that had been destroyed allegedly destroyed by termites and other things because of where they were scored so this goes to confirm that indeed the policy that the cbn has introduced does have some merit now if i'm if i'm also correct and i again i stand to be corrected it would appear as if when there was a hue and cry as to the deadline for people to sorry the limits that people could withdraw yeah i because there was a corresponding policy that said we draw more than this amount of money an individual of a corporate body and we saw that the cbn modified it stands and increased the amount of money that corporate bodies and individuals could withdraw so what else does the national assembly want the cbn it is if the national assembly would want to the cbn to pander to what it wants simply because it is representing the people the national assembly is not the only one that is representing the people the president and the governors were also elected by the people so and that's why the constitution made it pretty clear that their functions have to be separate so i feel that there could be of course and don't get me wrong there could be good reasons you know for what the national assembly is is asking for but i think the tone and language has to show respect if any agency didn't show respect to the national assembly i can imagine how the national assembly reacts so the tone and language of the national assembly has to be carefully chosen because the national assembly said it's not about the law we're just talking about spokespersons and so on and what they say and how they act the national assembly also has to have to be careful about not only how it acts but the way it is being perceived yeah that is absolutely important okay well um let's move on now what there is left to do is uh for the central bank to just make the money available because a lot of banks their atm's are not working because they say the new uh narrow nodes are not there and i have not seen a an atm that is dispensing 200 narrow nodes someone said uh he has seen and he actually collected but 200 narrow is very critical to the day-to-day transactions of businesses in nigeria so if that cannot be dispensed and not a lot of people of these of this keda that trade on the streets and everywhere will go to the bank uh banking hall to go and withdraw a lot of money that they will be given this uh money 200 narrow nodes so the central bank should look for a way in fact this morning somebody went to withdraw money from p o s and by the way the banks that are still operating their atm's are still paying all nodes and the p o s operators are also paying all nodes now this guy was said was some some some of the banks because he said the bank yes some some of the banks because not all of them thank you very much but i've seen one bank that has an atm that has new nodes and the other one has all nodes so if you had withdrawing from say atm a is all nodes atm b is new nodes but that's matter for another day the thing now is this guy went to collect 5000 naira from the p o s and normally it it attracts a 100 naira for the charges now this p o s operator said and i quote now now 200 naira for 5000 because now around 2 am where i buy money yesterday now that statement for me i don't know how to make of it she had to buy money at 2 am i was asking myself from who and why did it have to be at that late hour because if that was the case then it wasn't from a bank so who are the people who are now trading money for the p o s people to be able to have the money to serve the people and then there was one bag for one side for the new nodes and the other side for the old nodes she will collect the old new nodes and keep and give you all nodes because you are going to spend it i got confused i got i got i don't know the feeling that i had but that's the new reality now from this p o s i don't know everywhere else in Lagos but from this p o s and the area around it is 200 naira for a thousand for the 5000 naira or anything that you're collecting because money is now scarce that's the language so i don't know what the cbn can do about that i don't know whether we have something that we can do about that who do we report to the cbn how do we report that to the cbn and how do they catch the people who are hoarding the money and selling the money and making the other people who are trying to exchange this same money that we're talking about to be more costly because someone was paying in and instead of giving a commission of 100 naira 200 was collected someone was receiving and instead of paying a commission of 100 naira 200 naira was collected so you see how complicated this whole issue is bio it is complicated and i mean we were just also at the top of the program talking about public communication the cbn has to be concerned about not only the reality of what is existing but also the perception you know uh that people have um the the issue of the market women and the market men because we often say market women they're also men market you know but the issue of those who who who operate in markets you know has been brought onto this program you remember we had a guest who highlighted the challenge that people in the markets would have yeah and then people in rural areas because he said the moment the the atm's were being introduced on a large scale a lot of banks started closing down branches in rural areas now and then of course they are having network problems usually uh in most of this rural area so he made a very strong case and this this was an addition of the program that we had maybe six weeks ago or for something like that and i would have expected the cbn to have uh you know taking such comments or feedback very seriously and to have taken most to do something about it and if these were issues for example that the national assembly highlighted i mean in civil language i think it will have a lot of sympathy yeah but when it adopts a language you know which is imperial you know and given the fact that everybody in the national assembly is a politician and this is an election year and we have had notable political figures expressing apprehension about their inability to have access to cash you see it begins to suggest that the concern of the national assembly may not just be for the good of nigerians but only in their interest as politicians and that's why i said that the national assembly has to be careful about perception and they show that where it has very good reasons you know it presents it in a way that is very clear and everybody sees that it's doing that for the people and not because you know they are our representatives who are all standing for elections so but this is a complicated issue like we said and the one would expect that those who manage public information for the central bank should be responding to all this you know they cannot keep quiet you know because you know most of the time people don't test the law we had a student who who sued who sued asu during the strike and that would have been an interesting case i did not think that the strike was called off just a few weeks after that you know once once people have pushed we're going to begin to see citizens rising legally and peacefully challenging what is not in their interest you know so the cbn and all agencies and all kinds of government have to be responsive and responsible you know in how they go about carrying out their lawful duty well put there are so many other things that we are going to talk about security is there and so many others but well let's just take a short break and when we return we'll begin with tension in nasa our state as governor suree holds meeting with security agencies and may stay with us