 Welcome to Working Together on Think Tech Hawaii, where we discuss the impact of change on workers, employers, and the economy. I'm Cheryl Kershaw-Garcia, inviting you to join in the conversation. Call us with your questions or comments at area code 808-374-2014 or tweet us at thinktech.hi. For the vast majority of people living in the U.S., April 15th is tax day. The deadline for submitting our federal and state tax returns. If we're fortunate, we learn from this process that Uncle Sam will be sending us some nice, fat refund checks. However, for those of us whose roots are in Cambodia, April 15th is a far more significant day. It's Cambodian New Year. American Americans and others from Cambodia will use that day to memorialize friends and family they lost during the Pol Pot regime and in the so-called killing fields. Thousands of Cambodians died during that time. Some were executed as enemies of the state. Others were worked to death in reeducation camps and still more died of starvation and sickness as they fled the violence. People ran with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Many of them carrying babies or elders. Their path to freedom was littered with the bodies of those who didn't survive the journey and then they were herded into refugee camps where clean drinking water, food and access to medical care were scarce. There were significant challenges once those people resettled in other countries. Culture shock, language barriers and xenophobia made life challenging in their new homes. One of those Cambodians who left their homeland and resettled in the US is Tay Nelms. Tay's family left Cambodia when she was a young child and today she's going to share her experiences and tell us not only about the difficulties war refugees must overcome but also how Cambodian Americans have contributed to US society. Welcome Tay. Thank you. Yeah. And thank you for being willing to share your story. One of the sad things is that the group that are called refugees really doesn't diminish in size over time. There's always new groups of people who are escaping, socio-political violence, religious oppression and things like that. So I think it's important for people that have experienced it to come back and let the rest of us know that you can make a positive contribution to society and that really remind us that at one time or another all of us have ancestors that were refugees in some way. So thank you for being willing to share with us. Tell us your story about how you came from Cambodia to Thailand and then ultimately to Hawaii. It's a long story. So where do I begin? I was a little girl. We left Cambodia when I was four. I remember during the peaceful times, but during the war I remember our family running into different areas. I don't know where my parents were at, but I was with grandma. We call Yai. I don't think she's my biological grandma, but everybody in the Asian culture were grandparents or uncles and brothers and sisters. So I just remember hiding, hearing gunshots above my head and hiding in the rice paddies because it's like a ditch. And so we hid from place to place and just remember being hungry and tired and just wanting to stay in one place and I didn't understand why we had to keep moving and why my family had to be separated. And then next thing I know, we ate a long trek and we just walked in single file lines day and night and I don't remember too much, but one of the vivid images that I have was hiding behind a big tree and seeing the soldiers rush by the look on my mother's face. I mean, I was four years old. It just looked like nothing I'd ever seen before. I didn't know what death meant at the time, but she just said, shh, and I remember not just freezing and moving alongside the tree as the soldiers moved. And then I don't know how much time has passed, but we finally, they were gone and then we picked up our stuff and we kept on moving. And then other images were just bedtime stories that my mother would tell us. So instead of reading books, she would tell us how we escaped to kind of instill in us. And that was her gift to us because she didn't come from an educated family. And so storytelling and verbal communication was very important. So, sorry. No, no. It's just such an emotional topic even to this day. Yeah, I'm sure it is. And see, that's why I wanted to have you on the show to share these experiences because as I was saying to you before, those of us who were born and raised in the US have no idea of, you know, I can't imagine having to flee my home with nothing but the clothes on my back to run with brothers and sisters, you know, carry those who cannot walk in order to stay safe. It's a foreign and almost unfathomable concept to folks like me who have lived in safety our whole lives. So it's important to have those stories. And just like Cambodian culture has a rich oral history, it's important for you, I think, to tell us those stories because we can read books all day long. But to see the look in someone's eyes as they relate the story or to see your tears means more than we'll get from any book. And even for me, as we've spoken before, I've become complacent as well to our lives get so busy, you know, and then on new years and then we come together and we commemorate all what we've been through and all the lives lost. But it's not enough. And we also realize that the education system, we still haven't learned what we went through in the history book. It's still, for whatever reason, it's not in the education books. And so it becomes even more important. And especially as you also know, you know, my dad passed away last summer. And so with the first Cambodian Americans with their passing, just that knowledge and those experiences are also gone forever. And so it's important to just kind of keep talking about it. And so it was a gift for my mother to take the time to tell us what we've been through. So just to continue on with your question, how we came here. So we finally got to the Thai border, kind of to backtrack to. My mother said that there were team leaders that knew the way to the border. And so people would, they would ask, you know, whatever you had, you know, that would be a compensation for them. And so people would just give their savings, their gold and what not. And we didn't have much. And so, I mean, rice was, you know, was big at that time, too, because we didn't have food. And so a lot of people gave the team leaders rice. And so they would lead us. My mom said there were about 20 or 200 families that were in a group. And of the 200 families, about 50 made it to the Thai border. Once we got to the border, there were soldiers there. And they said that, you know, we're not accepting any refugees, not any unless you're Thai, but, you know, you're all Cambodians. And my mom heard on the radio. And she's Thai, both my grandparents were Thai. They relocated to a village called Atamong. So it's kind of on the Thai border. So a lot of the Cambodians there spoke Thai and vice versa. And then she said, oh, I hear on the radio that the UN declared to help the Cambodians out for all these countries to help them out if they can. And so the soldiers were like, well, how do you, you know, are you Thai? And she says, yes, I'm Thai. You know, I can speak. And so they let us, they let our group in. And so one by one, so eventually they were flooded with a bunch of Cambodian refugees. There were several, there were different camps set up. I don't remember all of the different names. Kha We Dong was one of the major refugee camps based on talking to my uncles and my aunties and my parents. There were various humanitarian relief efforts, the Red Cross, all available to help. And one of the memories that I remember was that probably clouded. But once a week we would get food rations. We got rice. Bananas were my favorite. So everybody got like a, what is that called, like a bunch of bananas. And I would go to each family's rations and steal one banana. And I asked my mom if that memory was, you know, in fact true if I had just made it up. And she said, oh no, everybody knew you stole the banana. But no one said anything. I also remember, sorry, it's just kind of bits and clips as I'm remembering things. I remember just being so tired walking from Cambodia to Thailand. But always remembering that an aunt or uncle would always pick me up and carry me. I don't know who they are. And I just know that now, as an adult, I mean sometimes kind of random. But I'm working out and I'm so tired and I can't lift another weight. And there's just no way I can lift another five pounds. But these people are running for their lives. And they're so tired and malnourished and hungry. And yet they found it in their hearts to pick me up. And so I don't remember a time when I was tired and no one agreed to pick me up. There's always somebody there. That's nice. And it's good that you had that companionship because they could just as easily have said, I run faster when I'm not hanging on to extra weight. So if you can't make it on your own, do that. Did you ever get in trouble for stealing those bananas? I'm still here. Well, I mean, an adult could have caught you and snacked your hand. No. No, and I probably stole more than just one banana from each family because I just remember, OK, I know it's about to steal. So I would, and I don't see anybody around. So I would just take one banana from my family side, even though, you know, we're not supposed to pick them up yet. And then I would go to the next family's rations and I would eat theirs. And I think at one point I went around in a circle and I was still hungry. So I took the second banana from those families. But like my mom said, everybody knew what I was doing. But no one said anything because how can you reprimand a child who's hungry? Yeah, that's true. And I think that maybe that's another experience that many of us don't understand. I mean, granted, there are families in the US that have food insecurity, but not to that degree where they're feeling compelled maybe to take things that belong to others. You know, this conversation has been flying by so quickly that I just got a whisper in my ear from our beloved voice in Houston that we need to stop and do some housekeeping. So sit tight. We will be back in 60 seconds. So take a look at some of the other programming that we have here on Think Tech Hawaii. Working together, we'll be right back. Aloha, I'm Marcia Joyner, inviting you to come visit with us on Cannabis Chronicles, a 10,000-year Odyssey, where we explore and examine the plant that the muse has given us. And stay with us as we explore all the facets of this planet on Wednesdays at noon. Please join us, Aloha. Aloha, I'm Dave Stevens, host of the Cyber Underground. This is where we discuss everything that relates to computers that just kind of scare you out of your mind. So come join us every week here on ThinkTechHawaii.com, 1 p.m. on Friday afternoons, and then you can go see all our episodes on YouTube, just look up the Cyber Underground on YouTube. All our shows will show up, and please follow us. We're always giving you current, relevant information to protect you. Keepin' you safe. Aloha. Welcome back to Working Together on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Cheryl Crozier-Garcia, and we are talking with Tay Nelms about her experiences of the killing fields and then coming to the U.S. So Tay, how long did it take your family to get ready for resettlement in the U.S.? So I was four years old when we left, and six years old by the time we were sponsored and moved to Hawaii. As far as, I mean, I wrote it down at some point when my mom was telling me the story several months at such camp, and it could be four to six months at certain camps. So it was Thailand within various refugee camps, and then the Philippines. So we were there, I don't know how long, but that was like the last holding place, and then from there we caught a plane to Hawaii. And were you sponsored by family and friends? We were sponsored by the Lutheran Church. Wow. So that's kind of a fascinating story in itself. So the man that was responsible for the vision was Pastor Lawrence Roller. He's a retired colonel from the Air Force. He was a part of Operation New Hope, a station at Wake Island. And it was after the Vietnam War where they set up a humanitarian relief efforts to help the Vietnamese refugees. And so he was one of the first people to welcome the Vietnamese to America and seeing just how helpless, hopeless sadness, but so much gratitude that they're safe in a new country has inspired him to help when he heard about the Cambodian refugees just fleeing from our own government. And when the UN gave the approval to help the Cambodian refugees, the President Nixon at the time also encouraged the US to help. At the time there were, I think there's still nine resettlement agencies that was authorized by the federal government to help. And so the Lutheran, the LIRS, the Lutheran Immigration Refugee Services, they were started during, from what I remember from what he told me, during World War I to help the displaced Lutheran, they have since opened up their mission to help all humankind in need. And so with that, he encouraged his congregation to help if they're able to. Mary and Dana Lungquist, they were founders of True Value Hawaii. They've been watching, they're watching 60 minutes and saw the clippings of how of the Cambodian refugees and went to our pastor and said that they'd like to help out. And so pastor, having been in contact with the LIRS, I believe he said their national headquarters is in New York. And so he immediately put them in contact with LIRS and they were able to expedite the sponsorship. It could take years, but it was within a matter of a couple of months. I mean, it could be exaggerating, but it was, I mean, that was how fast he was able to expedite it. So yeah, so Mary and Dana Lungquist sponsored the Yin family. They're the first wave of Cambodians to arrive to Hawaii. And that was your family? That's my uncle and my aunt. And then from there, my dad's eldest brother, Uncle Tanplong and his family arrived. And then the Chans and then just everybody, once we got here, everybody was sponsoring each other. Chain immigration. Yes. And now we may lose that ability to, if the president has his way, he seems to think that chain immigration is not a good thing because it brings in, say, folks of questionable moral fiber. Tell us a little bit about the Lungquists and how, I mean, it was more than just financial sponsorship, right? Because they, didn't they also, because they owned a retail store, they were able to employ a bunch of the folks that came over. Tell us about that. Yes, absolutely. So Pastor asked the Lungquist, how are you going, what's your plan once the Cambodians are here? Where are they gonna work and where are they gonna eat? And Mr. Lungquist just said, well, we have this store that we can employ the dads to work in our store. And they would sit alongside with us and have dinner and we'd take them to church. And they'd be part of our family. And so with that, Pastor knew that it was the right fit because he was worried about, you know, a sponsor just taking a family in and then just, you know, and not, and because of cultural and communication barriers, he worried about the Cambodians fitting in. But it just, it was a perfect match because the Lungquist never saw the Cambodians as anything else but family and extension of their family. Yeah, I could imagine that there may be a fear of exploitation perhaps and even maybe trafficking if people are not motivated by higher types of values. Yeah, and I think that the screening was very thorough and that's why Pastor and with his experience with the Vietnamese refugees, he was very careful in selecting the families that would help out. So you're six years old, you're here in the U.S. now, you're attending school, you're learning to, you're being socialized into the American slash U.S. slash Hawaii way of doing things. What sorts of challenges did you find individually just as a kid trying to fit in in school? Wow, you know, Hawaii is known to be the melting pot but I guess as the newest group of immigrants to come, you're an outcast, I remember not having any friends. No one knew what the Cambodians were, they always thought I was Chinese or even at that time, they didn't know much about Thailand or Vietnam, it was just all new to everybody. And I lived in, we grew up in Makiki, so it was a very vibrant immigrant neighborhood. I went to Queen Kahumanu Elementary School, the teachers were great, they always tried to make me fit in, but in the beginning it was hard because I didn't speak the language. I remember though they did have a program, I was in the third grade and it's called LIPS, I don't think they have it anymore, but it's kind of like English as a second language, Language Improvement Program Center I think, and so it was myself and a few of my Cambodian neighbors were in it, a Chinese student. So we were in that class together while everybody, I don't know what all the other kids did, I think probably recess or, but we practiced English and learned to read, and then by the time I got into the fourth and fifth grade, I was in the regular reading class, and sixth grade I was in the more advanced class, and then I found another sponsor, and his name is Mr. Steve Lane. He has been helping disadvantaged students in Hawaii obtain scholarships, and so I met him through another Cambodian family and went to his house, they just gave me a bunch of books to read, I never did really have the time to read all of them, but next thing I know, he had me take a test to go to Iolani, so I went to Iolani summer school, I didn't do very well, and then I think not to place any blame on my public schooling or anything like that, but I didn't score high enough to go to Iolani, but the headmaster of Iolani and the headmaster of St. Andrew's Priory were brothers at the time, and so I went to Priory, went to St. Andrew's Priory the following fall. And then you graduated. And then I graduated. From Priory. I actually graduated, another long story, I actually graduated from a boarding school on the East Coast, that Mr. Lane helped the sponsor found the monies for me to attend. Wow. So there's a lot of people. You've had tremendous blessings come your way. I did. We're starting to run out of time, so can you just briefly tell us that camera, that camera, look into the camera and tell us, tell all the people that are watching what we can do to support people who are, who come to this country or come to Hawaii in the position that you were in. Like what made it easier for you to become so successful as a war refugee? Okay, I want to try not to cry again. Well, I have plenty of clean air, don't worry about that. It's okay, take a breath. I guess I just feel so much gratitude because if it wasn't for all these, a chain of events, a chain of people with their vision and going through their own obstacles, I wouldn't be here, my family wouldn't be here. But there's just a select few that really made a difference. And it wasn't necessarily money or it was believing in us no matter what and being our friends and seeing the hope. They lost some friends along the way, but they knew it was the right thing to do to help the less fortunate. And as a result, I know that I've reaped the fruits of their labor. I just can't thank these people enough. And it all started with the UN saying enough is enough. There's too many lives being killed. And because of that, it was an incentive for all the other countries to help the Cambodian refugees. Mm-hmm. Well, Tay, thank you for sharing your story and thank you for your tears too and your gratitude. You know, there are always people fleeing violence and persecution. It's easy to forget that those we call refugees seek the same things we do, safety, security and a peaceful place in which to live, work and raise their families. Well, it's hard for US residents to picture themselves as needing to flee their homes in order to save themselves and their families from violence. Millions of people around the world aren't so fortunate. For those whose countries have been torn by war and political and religious persecution, there are few options apart from trying to escape. We need to remember that these people are human beings who want the same things we do for our family. The way we treat those who have been dispossessed is not an indication of who they are. It's a reflection of our own characters and our ability to operationalize the aloha spirit in our daily lives. On behalf of all of the people here at Think Tech Hawaii, I'm Cheryl Crozier Garcia. This is Working Together and we will be back in two weeks. Till then, take care.