 Welcome to the homelab show episode 96 dev random We had a lot of little things that none of them added up to a long show. That's what we do these dev random shows for So, how you doing Jay? I'm doing awesome. Are you I'm doing great the um, we have a few projects We've been working on Jay's got this really cool ants full project that he's gonna do a deep dive into I have a few more coming ones Including since last show I did one on fresh RSS So hey check that out, but we have some bigger projects coming in the future Then of course will also be things we dive into on topics on here But in a short term we have all this little stuff that needs to be talked about and so that's what we're gonna do today but first we need to think a sponsor and that's gonna be the Akamai cloud friends and there's gonna be some announcements me and Jay did some work with them in On some book stuff. That's gonna be published. We'll get the details for you guys later on that That's gonna be up and coming. We'll probably know by next week and have some of that sorted out But they have been a great sponsor of the show They've been great to work with if you are listening to this and you downloaded for our website You downloaded it from one of the Akamai Systems we host the entire the home lab that show on there And they've been a sponsor since the beginning is a great place to run the project We talk about on here if you need something that's not necessarily in your home lab But maybe it needs to run in a cloud choose the Akamai cloud for that also known as the node So yes, they're the same company. We're still working out those details as they as the name change happens But they're still a good sponsor. They're still a good platform and we thank them for their support Yep, and other news related to that They're gonna be starting the transition of changing their YouTube channel over to the Akamai branding as well So that we're gonna be announcing something pretty cool and I may or may not be part of that announcement I guess we'll have to see yeah, it's funny because I was actually googling I couldn't remember how to do something and get and because I don't use get enough. I'm getting better at it though Get good at it. I one day. I'll get good at it But I love that the first result was Jay's helpful video on how to get started with that So Jay's got some great videos if you need to get better at get Good to get get good to get alright, I Think someone said oh someone's talking about I have a typo in a video. That's fine. I'll get the typos fixed later on my other videos Yeah, I have that problem Like I don't think people realize just how much time we spend on metadata like we have conversations about to buddy and how we can like mass replace text across hundreds of videos and You know typo still kind of sneak in from time to time I'm a writer and I still have typos in my stuff. So yeah, but thank you I really appreciate it when people let us know about this because it is true like in my case I mean I know myself so we should we should have a bug bounty program for it Yeah, I think I just we we have feedback form or something specific for you know typos or glitches or whatever Like I in the show notes is this and I forget to put it like all the time And someone has to say hey, you said there's a link in the show notes. And yeah, I need to be anyway Real let's start with feedback at the home lab that show We've had two questions and we kind of want to talk about this as a topic One of them was you know asking about next cloud being a little more complicated and harder to use But not as many features as google and yes, welcome to the world of open source next cloud is kind of targeted Loosely at replacing some of the cloud storage things, but you're right. It's not there in terms of you can't compare A company that well next cloud is a company as well, but they're just not near the scale and scope of google So you can't expect feature parity. I'll just throw that out there Yeah, I think this is probably coming from someone who's a little bit newer into the open source world and looking at what available options There are there's some great options in the software is getting a lot better, but no, we're just not there yet. Sorry Yeah, it's gonna take time but also in in addition to that I I think some of that is intentional because You know, for example, if you have google workspace, you have gmail We have gmail with a google account even without that, but that's that's a part of it You don't Decide which email service you want to use with google workspace. You get that whether you want to use it or not With next cloud you can have email built in as well But they're not an email server And I think that's intentional because then you can slot in whatever email service you want for the back end service And then expose it to the front and sometimes I wonder if some of that's intentional because when it comes to homelab people and you know, it administrators they generally want to Slot in their own thing for each individual service So I think being modular is kind of the goal and that's something with open source you have to understand too because A lot of times it's about helping you build your solution Not building a solution for you to use if that makes sense, right And a quick google search for just scaling comparison Quick google search yields. I didn't validate just for accuracy But next cloud brings in a few million dollars a year and google did 279 Billion dollars, so they have a few more dollars to throw at that little project And next cloud has less of a graveyard just saying Yeah, um Yeah, we less of a graveyard. That's uh, because we don't know what google's going to keep and what they're not It's that's a little graveyard for a friend of our show, uh, Veronica from Veronica explains has a good point. I agree with this um She said basically I don't expect my home built bike to do what a mass transit system can do and I don't expect next cloud to replicate google um, and I think that's important to understand too because And that kind of goes in with what I was saying if you build your own solution You're building your own solution Next cloud is a component of that and for example You might decide not to use the syncing service of next cloud because maybe you don't want to do that But you want the other features then you might put in a sync thing to facilitate the syncing side of things You know stripping away the syncing in next cloud itself um So I think looking at it through that lens is best because that way you you know that you can There's always something else to fill in the blank if there is a blank in next cloud, but um Maybe we should catch up on next cloud um in an episode coming up That's really diving into the features of next cloud. It's good. You've already got a tutorial on how it works and everything else So I think there's yeah, that's definitely a good topic. No The next feedback that I want to bring up and there's there's a few Rabbit holes you can go down because this question comes up a lot And I'm probably going to order uh when I'm after this show maybe during the show if I get a pause I'm going to order one of those zima boards because they're pretty cool But the low powered computing topic comes up a lot and I know there's a lot of ones that Are a little sketchy if you will you can find on alibaba. I don't know how to describe them other than They always have some random name. Uh, you buy them from Places the the closest they do is some some will get rebranded under a name protect tele here in the us But if you're looking for something that's actually brand name I want to do some research into this the zima board looks interesting too by the way because it's x86 So you still have a nice a small computer with x86 support because as much as we love to talk about raspberry pies And jeff geerling did a good job talking about alternatives to the raspberry pie But he also brought up for a couple more watts and we're not talking like a lot But a few more watts going x86 on some of these like mini Lenovo's that you can pick up or for furbish like the Lenovo think centers the little baby ones they make You're talking about something that is supported Is in the affordable price range is compact enough and if you spend any time on reddit our home lab You'll see some people I was actually shocked someone built a really clever 3d printed holder For several of those little mini pcs and he built a really small quiet compact mini cluster That you know, it doesn't break the bank to purchase it doesn't break the wattage Requirements that a lot of people have to build a little out of choice So this is a topic that I think i'm going to dive a little bit deeper into get my wattage meter out Buy a few of these. I have a few use cases. I know a lot of you would like to hear about it But um, you know low wattage computing definitely makes a lot of sense, but check out the zima board because You can get these on amazon right now and they're quite affordable Right now the zima 832 board, which I think if I remember right that's got um Is it eight gigs of ram? Is that how that works? eight gigs of ram 32 I think that's how they they have a nanny schema that's like 832 is the Yeah, eight gigs of ram and 32 gigs of storage and their 216 is a two gigs of storage and Or two gigs of ram and 16 gigs of storage, but either way the the eight gig 32 gig of storage is only 172 dollars for those wondering. Yes, it'll run bf sense. Yes, it has a pcie slot Yes, you can pop in a on four port network card in there There there's actually another youtube channel that did a demo of that I was like, you know, that's clever I'd actually message them when I first posted about the zima board running pf sense because it has the Real tech chips and I was like real tech are not the best and I'd actually message them I said, why don't you guys grab one of those four port intels and then they did and actually there's a couple write-ups if you google Um Google zima board projects and you'll find some but I want to put this on people's radar Steve Gibson talks about it on security now It's it's a it's a neat little box that you could do some neat things with Without breaking the budget so that definitely Yeah, two guys tech. That's the other channel That had done a video on it. So let's throw it out there It's something I want to actively research and maybe do a deeper dive into because the question comes up Is where do we get some of these affordable ones? If you're lucky enough to be by a refurbisher awesome But you're not always that lucky or you live in a rural area So I'll be trying to find things that are easily accessible on ebay or amazon Um for fast shipping not as random and reliable so you can build something that's trustworthy and go Hey, I can build my mini cluster on this and not have to worry about hardware problems Yeah, I think I want to check that out too. The only reason why I haven't I've had them Reach out to me and offer me a review unit like multiple times, but um As we discuss off-camera the reviews on youtube are very much, you know de-prioritized So it's like I want to check it out, but I'll just buy it myself and then try to find a project for it I think another thing To consider if you're like me and you run a raspberry pi based kubernetes cluster Um, you know, I go to linuxerver.io for all of my container images because they support arm Which means it works on raspberry pi, but you're still going to have A container every now and then that will not run on the raspberry pi because it needs x86 So one use case and you could supplement your um raspberry pi cluster with a zima board So you have an x86 node that such containers can be run on if they don't run on the you know Rest of the cluster so you can have that um edge case covered And this was an interesting topic that I didn't know about and jay was kind of explained to me is you can incorporate Arm and x86 into your kubernetes cluster and then you build the rules out So it's still a managed singular cluster if you will that but it's got a mix of processor types So you would then tell the services to start on based on their target of support So I think that's a that's an interesting way to build a project around that Yeah, you could also have other constraints too not just uh cpu. I mean you could literally say I only want you to run on you know with these specs or matt you run on that I mean it does that itself where it it's obviously not going to schedule a container That's going to take two gigs of ram if only 512 megabytes are free obviously but you can Supplement that and further customize the logic there which is pretty neat that it allows you to do that yeah, so that's uh Definitely going to be a fun topic to dive into and and do testing on that And there is a question I could probably grab real quick because it's um, I think that it's it's a good one Actually, um any seen a blue squadron any seen reason Sorry blue squadron is the username. I should probably should have said that the question is any same reason to move on from one gigabit ethernet I don't do any video editing The thing about that is I feel like we're hitting In some some cases we're hitting a wall with one gigabit I would say Another reason to move on from it might be if you uh copy files back and forth from a file server For whatever reason, um, if you if you're like me and you're inpatient Then you probably want 10 gig just because you hate watching progress bars That's not necessarily a good reason to just buy a bunch of stuff But if you're just you know doing, you know basic things like ssh and What not it's probably not going to be a difference But if you're copying larger files or If you have a virtualization solution and you want back end storage I would never recommend one gigabit for your back end storage. You definitely want something, um faster It will be fine up to a point. I used to have Shared storage over one gigabit. It was always fine Until too many vms were doing too many things at the same time And then what you would see is that they will slow each other down and the estimated time will actually be counting up Rather than going down because everyone's running an ansible job at the same time I mean those are some of the things you might run into But even then as long as you schedule things to happen one at a time you can still avoid that so I think it's Not a matter of finding a use for it It's a matter of looking at the things that drive you crazy in your network And whether or not those things can be solved by increasing your speed If not stick with one gigabit if you think you're running into a speed bottleneck Then that would be a consideration, but it is going to be Um, you know, it's not it's not like a few dollars. I mean you're going to need a switch You're going to need the network cards. It's it's it's a project So it has to be worth it for your use case and and you know solve a constraint that you might have Yeah, because I I have my videos backed up to a true nas server an older one I've talked about before in my recent video on how little ram you can run a true nas server with It's a low power. It's only one gig And I'm fine with that now I am also aware and this is one of the things you have to be aware from a planning perspective My backups are going to go there fine, but how long will it take me to restore? Well, it's going to restore only at one gig as long as you're aware of that and it's not a big deal And for me, it's not like my main video editing system had crashed and I have my videos which are constantly being backed up over to the other server I know it's going to take probably eight hours to get my videos back All I would do is pull the videos that are most important to me the rest of them are archive You know, maybe maybe it takes half an hour to get the videos I want back So I can go back to editing and get myself fixed right away in terms of that But the rest of stuff is just restoring all my archives because it's all second copies and third copies are all in the cloud So as long as you have it as part of your plan, it's perfectly fine Now let's talk about some updates to some software and I'm working on a new gray log video. So I've actually thrown in a show notes I With gray log and how you can install it with docker. I've put all this in github That's where I started I goofed up something when I was setting up the kid repository It's all been solved now. So that that's available the code works I just don't have the video around it with instructions But if you're good enough to understand how to do docker compose Download this run it it will install gray log for you and you're off and running It is got it does have notes in it and things like that. This is going to be for gray log five I did this because there's no easy migration from gray log four to five, which is unfortunate They are aware of it But because of the changes I wanted to make and one of the big ones is going to be instead of using elastic I'm using open search instead Because there's some licensing confusion that could be a show into itself the history of Elastic search versus open search I'm not here to throw opinions. Go ahead and google it Make your own assessments on it, but I'm a little I'm a little confused by all of what happened, but it sounds like people arguing about software being copied And somehow it almost feels like amazon is I can't tell if they're the good guy or the bad guy in this one, which normally I would default to The same thing to the eyes about amazon's the the problem But it's more complex than even that About licensing usage elastic change or licenses open search hasn't as I understand it a more open license But nonetheless, correct me in the comments if I'm wrong about there are your thoughts on that as a topic But back to gray log Update tomago db5 and a lot of cool features the nice thing I'm going to be doing is explaining it in two ways One how to download and set it up Which is all in one vm, which is easy second how to download it And set it up But then how have all of the log data the large part of this going to an nfs share And why that's a good thing we in j had kind of discussed this over Many episodes and including the last episode episode 95 We talked about this of why you really need to have your compute your application and your data You know all segmented out and this is going to be something I hammered down And this video is showing you how to build it that way Because I've seen a lot of people complain about xcp and g where I run things going but tom It feels so limiting having these vms. I have this cap of x number, you know I think it's two terabytes per drive. I'm like if if you need more than two terabytes per drive on your virtual machine You're designing your storage wrong. That's the least optimal way to do it Your vm should be small easily movable around There's no need to have two terabytes of virtual machine The virtual machine should boot up and then mount where the larger data volumes are going and I'll make sure that's Very clear in the video So I'll go over storage design as well to make sure people have a good grasp on that Yeah, I think one of the other reasons this came up is because of the plex server that I run that I've mentioned before where It has a 16 gigabyte disk and I said gigabyte not terabyte 16 gigabyte disk. It might be 32 But either way it's it's 32 gigabytes is the maximum and it's barely using any of that because just like you were saying The movies are on an nfs share. So if I have to restore my plex server I'll just delete it if something breaks and I'll just recover it from an image And it'll just sync up whatever movies I might have added since then But then what I want to transfer that vm from one proxmox host to the other It's small. It happens super quick. I don't have to wait for it It's also easy to back up And I back up the data separately because that's a lot of stuff if you have that big of a vm That's actually kind of kind of crazy in my opinion. That's that's huge Yeah, not a great idea now the video I released about an hour before this show started was the Unified dream machines are now Finally getting the unified dream machine pro which I know a lot of people probably have And it's now got wire guard support if you're running 3.0 0.2 zero release candidate I have the release candidate. I set it up wire guards working awesome Uh, that means I'll in the future one be able to do updated videos because people are asking What do you think now that it's got it? And I said no no release candidate doesn't really mean has it but I do know Unified is good for the time that you have a release candidate. It's generally only a week or two before it goes into full out So, um, it's not like EA early access. It's actually a release candidate So they the good news is they have it so for those of you that have bought into that mean going When do I get my good vpn support? Finally they after this long road of doing everything weird and unify just deciding to do vpns in a way Different than other companies for reasons. I can't understand. They've decided Oh, I guess companies do it this way because it's easier for the users. Yes. That's why they do it They didn't really want to use your silly cloud system To vpns turns out the firewall can do vpn. Why not? We just talked to the firewall Why do we have to tie it to a cloud to do a vpn? Anyways rant over uh, because they're finally fixing it Probably because they had a conversation internally like tom says we should do this I think we should probably do this. He's been asking for a long time. I'm kidding. Obviously it's useful for everyone Um, I think I'm right in the board show but yes, thank you Yeah, so those update um Other thing that we're talking about here is I want to mention fresh rss Which I did a tutorial on and staying focused on the news is hard But also something that's very Important if you work in technology you want to keep up with the world around you of technology You don't want to be distracted by the shiny things. Um, I did a video on fresh rss I highly recommend it for an rss reader. I know j used to you. Is it tiny rss? Is that the one you're using tiny tiny rss? That's the one i'll be switching away from when I check out your video. Yeah, j didn't care for that one as much I'm really happy with fresh rss. Uh, got a lot of good feedback on it. I also give people my news feeds uh, which are very linux and open source centric along with hacking and uh tech news in terms of security news to keep up with a lot of that as best I can And uh rss reader is a way to like focus yourself into a single spot I think fresh rss fully open source fully hostable by you Lightweight relatively easy to install has a docker implementation of it I just really give it a two thumbs up in terms of ease of use and making my life A little more focused which is you know, I like the shiny thing too, but I want to you know Narrow it down the only thing I I still use twitter because I post on social media But I did point out something if you don't want to use twitter But you would like to just get feed information from people that you want to follow on twitter without having to actually go to the site Which will lead you to a array of distractions because whatever is trending is never interesting Well, I should say never relevant to me, but always going. Why is that word trending? Who's doing something stupid? I can't resist sometimes But you can use a tool called knitter and then tie it to fresh rss and you can grab individuals I did cover that in my video as well. So It's another way to do that I didn't look but I think there's a way you can do that with mastodon as well So if you don't even want to but most people mastodon is nice because they have public feeds But you should be able to pull those feeds in from mastodon um And you know, I think it's important to keep up with people social media can be Good and bad if you it depends on how you use it is how I feel It's a challenge of course because their goal is off to do You know, you can complain about them sort up your data, but they do a good job of keeping on the site by distracting me with things That I want to click on They do and that's what we do Oh youtube over rss. Yes That is that is a cool feature. You don't have to know anything more than a channel name for the fresh rss You don't have to like there there's ways you can find to rss feed for a channel There's steps you can google it and figure out how to do it But you can actually just dump channel names right into fresh rss And it just grabs the channel puts them all together. That's actually how I subvert the youtube algorithm to see the things I want to see I just throw them all in fresh rss. I can have all I know which one of my creators have released which videos I'm like, hey, look, that's interesting I don't have to rely on youtube's algorithm which may or may not despite how many times we tell you to click bell icons And subscribe it may decide that it doesn't want to show you a video So you can beat the youtube algorithm on our behalf by using fresh rss That's a good way to do it. Absolutely. And yeah, that was the reason I wanted to move away from tiny tiny rss because it's just not all that easy to add youtube feeds to it So that's a big fix that I need Really cool the way you add them in there. You just grab the channel name drop it in done done just have them By the way, it creates a nice index you can do search it So if you can't remember because you're like me and you've now subscribed to too many things in fresh rss But you remember there was a topic If you tell it and it doesn't take much storage to do this I keep a thousand articles from every Site that is fed in there. So I keep this rolling thousand article history So I can search through all of the articles and find everyone talking about a specific topic Including the youtube people so I can see who's got a video on it who's got this and like it's just kind of a great way to do it so Yep, yep And I think jay want to talk about some raspberry pi compute modules. These things are neat They really are and we've talked about them before but I think this is more of a refresher And I want to put it put them back on everyone's radar. I feel like they're starting to take off But they're a little bit more challenging than a raspberry pi and here's the thing so raspberry pi For you have your network Port you have your you know usb hdmi and whatnot So it's pretty easy just to you know, put an sd card in it and you know power it on and use it Compute modules don't have any of those ports literally zero it's just everything but the port and that might You might think that that makes it unusable, but the idea is you slap them into a you know a main board um They have boards that can support one compute compute module or many like the Turing pi two you can add four to that one Which is one, you know my favorite one and I think that this is a major um thing for home labors to consider Because the footprint is smaller you could buy an atx case your favorite atx case a small one mini itx case and and buy a board that goes in there in the slot your computer your compute modules in there and It it just seems like a really awesome way to have raspberry pi servers without having to deal with you know All these cables all over the place because the compute modules will share the backplane with each other So you'll typically on the board you'll have an you know one network port But it's actually a switch on the inside so they you know each compute module will get an ip address And uh, usually you can hot plug them. It's usually how that's set up and also there's single use devices such as um the gpi which is a raspberry pi compute module case that Uh, basically turns it into a handheld game boy You know with a screen and the buttons and everything you just put your compute module in there And then you have your own game system so I Just wanted to put this on everyone's radar because it might be confusing to some of you that are beginners You look at this thing and it's like how do I use it? There's no ports. Well, you have to buy the board for it But um, one of the reasons why I wanted to bring this up too is because there's a uh document that'll be in the show notes that He mystifies purchasing compute modules because this in and of itself is confusing It's not just all buy a compute module and use it like which one do you want and there's So many different variations. It's it's kind of like mesmerizing. So the different models will have, um Basically, well, they'll have on board storage some of them won't so the light models of the compute module Those are the ones that expect you to have an sd card slot on the board They don't have on board storage themselves more like a normal raspberry pi where you have an sd card But just think of the sd card slot being on the board another compute module But the compute module will need that for the operating system but The non light models will have emmc storage on them So there's a different way you have to program them. Jeff gearling has videos on this He does a good job explaining how to do this. I like the emmc because then you have everything built in But even then, um, there's models that have wi-fi There's models that don't but it comes to this emmc version There's a you know 8 16 32 gig version that you can get One of the things to keep in mind is most of the time if not all the time I'm not too clear on this but everything I own that uses compute modules If you have an sd card slot and you buy the emmc version of the on board storage, they can't use the sd slot So I don't think you're just going to put a you know 2 terabyte sd cards In the slot and use it. Um, if it's a light one you can And I apologize. There's uh the lawn mowing companies here all of a sudden so Yeah, right on time guys, um So anyway, so I just wanted to have this linked in the show notes because it's um It really kind of makes it easier to know which one you want Just understand if you buy emmc, you're using emmc If you buy an sd card version, you're using the st card version. So um That's uh, it'll be it'll be easier just to read the document that's in the in the show notes But I again, I wanted to put this in everyone's radar because they're just awesome. I love these things Yeah, they are really cool that link is in the show notes and it's um, I I got to admit Shout out if many of you undoubtedly follow the channel eta prime He talks about a lot of these handheld devices and some of them are based on the uh raspberry pi Compute modules as well. Yep. So definitely things look in there So I'll just paste it right in there in the chat and uh, we'll have in the show notes too So I think that just makes it a lot easier and if you're thinking about setting up a cluster I think it's a very good uh solution for that because if you have hot plug compute modules It's like many server cards and you're just you know, slotting them in as you need Which is pretty cool because then you could just have one cable without having to do Power over ethernet to every single one. You could just have one network cable one power cable And then the rest is handled for you. So yeah, um I seen this question come up in here and this goes back to two episodes ago We talked about uh home assistant and home assistant is great But the question of z wave versus zig b Yes is the answer and I threw a link in there. You can find this it's in the it's in our previous video about it as well It's really weird because this is one of those it's hard to find on the amazon links But I'll give you the name of the device but place it we have the link in there It's by nortech security and control And it's a z wave plus uh zig b device in one I really like this thing because it's one usb that has both protocols So you can decide what you want. So whatever you're finding a deal on and you can have both activated at the same time as I do I have some things that are z wave. I have some things that are zig b And they have no problem because they don't use the same frequency But the device can control both in your home assistant. You don't have to choose one or the other Um, so that's I just do it out there. It's one of those things that I really like that stuff I I don't think you have much stuff that z wave or zig b though j right you're just using a lot of wi-fi Yeah, motion sensors are the only thing that uses that so everything else is going to be the you know wi-fi basically Yeah, the it's it's a nice protocol because you don't have to attach these weird iot devices or set up on an iot vlan I have a video coming out on that soon of why I chose to go zig b and z wave Uh for things and most it comes on too I don't have any of those weird off off the wall switches that I bought things like that They're not attached to any wi-fi you just press the little z wave button on them And that's not a protocol that routes internet. That's just for these devices to communicate So there's not any security concern. They're they're not able to reach out to some Controller in the sky. They're not running internet protocol to get out to the internet. They're just local devices pinging for Uh looking for friends because it's it's interesting protocol because uh zig b and z wave the other devices all become relay devices in the network So you they all automatically do this for you. They create like a larger Most of them do I should say there's probably some a few exceptions out there that don't have this most of them have a relaying function in there So if you have a light switch that is 10 feet away and another light switch that is 20 feet away And another one that's 30 feet away It'll actually jump between all of them because the one is 30 feet away Maybe the signal is not good enough But it's good enough to talk to the other ones and by building these mesh networks makes it uh a lot easier You can dive into there's a lot of great documentation and people who have videos on that as a topic Just how zig b and z wave work. So it's uh, it's it's really neat. I think it's a great way to run your home iot stuff it's especially good for people that Don't like iot, but they're kind of like You know grinding their teeth and just kind of going into iot as they need to For whatever they need to do it for without necessarily being cloud connected Like you were saying which is probably a benefit for a lot of people that otherwise wouldn't even give iot at the time of day Well, especially because the firmware problems you can run with things that connect to your wi-fi Jay ran into that with certain models and this is one of the things that can be an aggravation setting up home assistant of going Uh, you'll find a module that works in a video. You're like, hey that video's from last year This guy says it works. Oh Oh, it doesn't work this year because the newest model has a firmware That doesn't that requires some cloud registration in order to work or something like that So z-wave and zigby are ways to avoid those type of rabbit holes of you know time And I think I think jade showed me like there's a firmware, but it requires Doing a breakout box and soldering a couple pins or something like that. I'm like, yeah This seems like a lot of work to get a light switch to work It is yeah, that is a lot of work. Um, I learned that ikea apparently and I haven't tested these has Uh devices. I believe are zigby that you could have like a smart switch without Installing it into your into your you know actual wiring it just mounts to the wall and wi-fi Which I I haven't tried it, but I I think I want to I think that'd be fun Well, I like you guys know how it goes. There's a brand name ones, uh, honeywell Like, you know companies that make regular consumer products. Um, they've gotten into it. Uh lutron I believe is sold at lowes. It's just you know your hardware store We have that's nationwide here in the us so for our nine us listeners I don't know if they're outside the us But there's at least brands that are regularly sold in stores not weird one-off brands where you can find these Which is kind of cool. So Yep Oh, and I'll throw this out there. Um You I don't have any problem with home assistant being on my secured network I don't see it as a threat. I it doesn't It doesn't itself pose a threat to me so to speak like could someone take it over because they hacked it I mean by default it has ssh off and things like that So someone could get into it and mess with my lights, but if it's on my secured network It's less likely to even be attacked because home assistant outside of updates. It reaches out to the internet for updates It doesn't really need to be externally exposed unless you feel like externally exposing it and not using a vpn Uh, but the people at is it nobo koso? There's the company that's behind it Casa I believe nobo kasa thing. I'm sorry. I'm trying to remember. I'm pretty sure it's something closer Yeah, something along anyways the people who actually support the project Uh, they actually have a relay server you can get for external access that comes with ssl and everything else So, um, it's if you want to have it externally accessible I don't see any problem with putting it on there And by the way, if you set it up, but you're going how does it control the iot network? If it needs to be on that network Well, you can put in either a firewall rules so it can reach out to and this is something I have on mine There's firewall rules because it can talk to my camera network or specifically My sonology can talk to it for webhooks So my sonology has a one specific port open for one specific reason It is to be able to do webhooks. So you can pinhole firewall rules to Put it all together that way So, uh, naba naba kasa is what someone said Yeah, it's an interesting term. It's probably not something I'll remember Until I have to say it a few more times then I'll get it. Yeah, it's easy to forget So it's a roll off the tongue. All right. Well, thank you for joining us for this dev random episode This was fun Hopefully, uh, check out some of the videos we have where we dive way deeper in our tutorials On those topics. So thank you everyone who joined us and we'll see you next week. See you again