 Welcome to Cooper Union. What's happening with human rights around the world on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio on Honolulu, Hawaii and Moana, New York. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. The title of today's episode is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. It's now or never our mitigation moment. I'm very fortunate to have our guest with us, Stephen Running, Regent Professor Emeritus of University of Montana, but also one of the authors that was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for the important work in the 2007 report. Stephen, thank you so much for joining us. Yes, it's good to be with you at least by Zoom. It would be more fun to be there in person. I know I hear there's too much snow still in Montana. It unfortunately is snowing out my window right now. Spring sometimes starts slowly here. Well, you know, that's what we're looking at here is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and it's most recent third report from the working group. It kind of completes the trilogy of the sixth assessment. But what actually is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and how did they operate and what did they do? Yeah, the IPCC was, I think founded around 1990 and by the United Nations. This is just as the world was starting to become aware of climate change as an Earth system dynamic. And so there really wasn't much of anything known and there wasn't really a forum for exploring the new research that was coming out. So it was laid out with three working groups. Working group one covers the climate factors themselves, you know, the changes, the temperature and the rainfall patterns and really the direct physical climate. Working group two covers the impacts of the changing climate. And so that would include things like sea level rise, ocean acidification, glacial retreat like we think about in Montana, the impacts of the climate drivers. And then the third working group is the adaptation and mitigation options for humanity. And so it in the beginning was very, very small. The first few IPCC reports had very little in working group three. Now every country is allowed to send scientists to as authors for this report. And so as an approximation, each working group was about 200 authors from around the world. And so totaling something close to 600 authors worldwide for each one. There was, I think the first, well, IPCC reports started really getting notice with the third assessment in 2001. And that's when it started making world headlines. And so I was then in the fourth assessment in 2007, there was a fifth assessment in 2013. And now we're having the sixth assessment. Now the working group one of the physical climate came out last August. The working group two came out a couple of months ago. I don't remember exactly. And then the working group three is what just came out in the last week. And so this as times have moved on in the beginning the working group one was really the core report because that was just looking at the climate. How is the climate changing? Where is it changing? How fast? Now the working group three is becoming the most pivotal of the chapters because the working group one is trends are well established. We know how much CO2 is rising. We know how fast temperatures are changing, things like that. We know the impacts. We have long records now of things like sea level rise and glacial retreat and ongoing drought and wildfire patterns and flooding and all those things we know pretty well. And now what's really starting to become a pivotal report is working group three. And that's what came out this week because what it does is look at what options does humanity have to deal with this changing climate that's now well measured and basically lay out the set of options. Now it's important to realize that IPCC very strictly does not choose options. And this was drilled into us very carefully. We don't choose the best and the worst options. We just lay out the smorgasbord of here are the different things that humanity can do. And it's up to policymakers and the public to choose which things we'll actually do. That's a great coverage and it reminds me of being there in Geneva at the World Neurological Organization. But as you pointed out, it really that's what matters is bringing this knowledge home. And the working group three report provides an updated global assessment of climate change mitigation, progress and pledges as you described, examines the sources of the global emissions but it also explains developments in emission reduction and mitigation efforts, as well as assessing the impact of national climate pledges that you were talking about in the policy aspect in relation to long-term emission goals. So it's true, it shares about the options but also the opportunities. And I think a big point it looks at though is it's also a dire warning for our world. It's letting us know where we're headed if we continue on the path we're on today. Oh, absolutely. I think back to the report I did and was part of in 2007 and at the time the climate trends were well established but it wasn't so clear what the impacts were going to be, how fast these impacts were going to develop. And certainly the different mitigation options were still very much in their infancy. Well now 15 years later, those things are becoming very much more clear first what the impacts are. We have global monitoring systems of all types all around the world. I like to explain to my public audiences that the climate systems composed of the atmosphere obviously but then the ocean, the land and the cryosphere, it's no one ice. And so those are the four components and we measure all those components all around the world. There's buoys out in the oceans measuring sea level rise and ocean temperature and ocean acidification. There's measurements on land, measuring snowpack and glacial retreat and things like that. And obviously the atmosphere is very well measured through the CO2 concentration that emissions of CO2 and methane and other greenhouse gases. And so now we have all these measurements that have pretty well come on in the last 20 years. I couldn't list these 20 years ago and now we can and now we have a couple of decades of measurements to see the trends developing. And so now this is where it's very much time as this working group three report says is that in a way it's time to quit talking and start doing and what should we do and what should be the highest priority? That's a great point. It's we have the measurements now we have to really build the movement but the good news is throughout the report there's points that talk about that we can really stave off these worst impacts of climate change that they're within our grasp with the technologies that exist today. And it also seems that in some ways if we do move from oil, coal and gas and fossil fuels the renewable energies are actually dropping very rapidly. And there's reason for hope for the nations of the world we just have to be bold enough to take advantage of some of those options and opportunities. Oh yeah, absolutely. When I compare the situation with our report in 2007 and to the options, the technological development we have now solar power and wind power is now the cheapest. The cheapest new electric power production almost everywhere in the world is no longer coal. Coal always was the cheapest for decades and it isn't anymore. And in fact, it's now absolutely clear that the highest priority for humanity is to quit burning coal. The US is well on its way to doing that but that is not the case for the rest of the world. And so that is really priority number one is to quit burning coal and moving to these other types of electric power production. If we, yes, no, if we look at that there are 17 chapters of the working group three report and it assesses the mitigation of climate change examines the sources of global emission and explain developments in emission reduction or mitigation efforts. What do you think are some of the most important steps that developed and developing countries could take? Well, as to reiterate that absolutely first thing is to quit burning coal. The next and when you quit burning coal you want to substitute with the renewable power. I haven't been to Hawaii now for about 15 years and what I hear is there's solar powers and wind turbines just all over the place now. Hawaii is a perfect example where I think where you had to import all your diesel fuel forever. And so to me Hawaii was a perfect example of a place that would benefit most immediately from getting off of fossil fuels. Right, it's good policy. It's better for our health. And it also instead of being just a tourism mecca it actually allows us to be a space where people could come to see a workshop of how to make it work. But as you pointed out it has to be today not tomorrow. And I believe we'll shut our last coal plant in September of this year. Oh, good, good. So it's scheduled then that couldn't be better. The next things one of them now is probably long established was LED lighting. LED lighting it was, we're now it's routine but when that came on an LED bulb used 10% of the electricity of old light bulbs. So changing all the light bulbs in the whole country and the whole world, the LED was actually huge. And we're now pretty well past that way. I think at least in the developed world. And so that's been another success that we're already completely past. Now the new one that's just turning the corner is electric vehicles. And I think we're now seeing finally the inflection point where every car manufacturer in the world is talking about and scheduling and transitioning to electric vehicles. And I couldn't say that even three years ago. And so this is absolutely where we're right at the point of transition starting. And it's gonna be interesting to see how that rolls out but it's definitely the next big step. It's true at the Super Bowl this year there were more EV electric vehicle ads by far and much more creative than the traditional vehicles. And that really gets to an a point that in the report the 1.5 degree pathway requires CO2 emissions reduced by 48% by 2030 and to achieve net zero emissions by 2050. So do you believe that this cleaner safer more sustainable future is achievable? And if we do this, we can do that by really that major shift away from fossil fuels starting with averting subsidies and moving towards these renewable energy storage as well as the vehicles that you shared earlier. Yeah, we really have all the technology now to make this transition. Even if we didn't invent anything new which we know we will, you don't know until it arrives what there will be new inventions but we don't really need to wait for that anymore. I think the selectrification of transportation is now well underway. And so this is one of the cornerstones that we didn't have any momentum on at all even five years ago. I do wanna talk about the 1.5 degree threshold that of course that we're now approaching. I think most climate scientists say that we're almost certainly going to exceed it which is unfortunate. But I think the important thing for the public to understand is there isn't actually any magic threshold at 1.5 where at 1.4 you're okay and at 1.6 the world's going to end. It's really a continuum where the warming is just going to be progressing. And so I'm a little concerned now that some commentators are overreacting to this issue that we probably are going to break through 1.5. And I'm hearing some pretty hysterical some pretty hysterical comments about that. And I wish we would be able to stop the warming trend before then but it doesn't appear like we will but that really shouldn't inhibit us from getting to work on what's already now possible. Yeah, I agree. I mean, when you look though for the people of the Pacific the 1.5 to stay alive was crucial because it meant for Tuvalu that's so low lying at all that it could forever change their world and the climate vulnerability forum founding chair who's former president of the Maldives, Mohamed Nasheed he did say and point as you said the IPC has confirmed that the world is now fairly close to reaching the Paris Agreement target of limiting warming to 1.5. But it's that point that we have to take action every day and build momentum and not give up them but more importantly everything we do now. So unfortunately it's always told by your fellow Nobel Laureate, Vice President Al Gore that political will is a renewable energy but we're not doing enough in our public policy realm to make that shift. So what are some of the things that we could push our elected officials but also corporations to make sure that we do strive for the 1.5. It's at least in a way like the sustainable development goals if it's to give us that goal to then work towards but then not paralyze us in our policy making in our everyday practices. Yeah, it is disappointing that probably the slowest acting component of our society has been our political leadership. And I say that for the United States and really for most the rest of the world even the Paris Climate Agreements and the national emission reduction goals almost no country is going to meet the goals that they voluntarily established back seven years ago. And so in a way the private sector has done more by far than the political sector. I mean, the development of wind and solar has been just stunning how far they've brought the prices down. Absolutely remarkable. We never imagined solar energy could get as cheap as it now is back in 2007. And so we really have had some tremendous success. Now what big corporations always have to anticipate is what the public interest and the public demands are going to be before they transition into anything new that's a costly change over like energy systems. And so they've been slow to make some of the changes and yet what I'm finding is we wanna keep pushing the politicians but we can't rely on them because they just have already shown that they're not gonna come along fast enough. So I think wider social pressure and just social interest is the most important thing we can be doing now. We won't stop with pushing our political leaders for action but I think we won't sit around waiting for them back because we've watched the federal government not pass critical bills over and over in the last few years and yet we can all be doing things and not only at the state level but certainly at the personal level that make a difference right now. And... In the report, it did talk about personal actions shifting from driving our regular vehicles to walking, to bicycling, to focusing on electric public transportation but it's also building a movement then of many people doing this not only in our countries but around the entire world. And that's the good aspect is this report really does concentrate and calls on humanity to create a mitigation movement because we can't just adapt our way out of it because the adaptation to the countries that are producing all the fossil fuels and the carbon will not be enough. We have to look at reducing and refreshing the way we think about what matters most. Right, and one of my favorites that I have to admit that has had a dramatic development in the last 10 years are electric bicycles. I was a bike commuter my whole career. It's about three miles down to my university down a country road with very little traffic. I've always been a bike rider but these new electric bikes are absolutely remarkable and they really allow almost anybody to be able to use a bike for commuting in the kind of one to five mile distance really effortlessly and they've developed very nicely. Nowadays I think in Europe half the new bikes sold are electric bikes. I know in China it's the same thing that just it's really taken over the bicycle market. And it's just an example of where a new development in an existing technology of bikes is making them very much more comfortable and reliable for changing our transportation and trying to get people out of their cars whenever we can. Now that's true. And you can see that in Geneva there's so many electric bicycles once getting around on them and way before we saw them here. So that's the other side is in the world today where we're more interconnected so we can look at all of those different options. And in a way, as you said it's really a smorgasbord for sustainability and the UN sustainable development goals, the 2030 agenda plus the Paris Agreement provide in a way that menu for the mitigation movement of how we can take actions going forward to aim for that 1.5 Celsius because we do wanna avoid as much as possible those multiple climate hazards that will impact the most vulnerable soon making sure that there's less floods, less drought, less heat stress, more pressure on our agriculture, water, fisheries, health, biodiversity and the cascading crises. What would you say would be a couple steps that we should push our politicians to do immediately and other actions we can take as individuals going forward to take those options provided by the working group number three in IPCC with assessment six and see where we can go forward so we could tell our children the actions we took and the way we have heard it, worse crisis. Yeah, one of my favorites and one that's relevant to every single one of us is our food production and food consumption. And many studies have shown that worldwide we waste close to a third of the food grown ends up being thrown out for various reasons that, and this is something where every single one of us has a stake in how we buy food, how well we use it or do we let it sit in the refrigerator until it's rotten and throw it away when we go to the supermarket do we choose local foods that don't have a big carbon footprint to fly in? Of course, I have to watch I love when I can get a Hawaiian pineapple here and I wouldn't have a pineapple if I only ate local food. So you can take this too far but I think the bigger point is food production in storage and consumption is one where every single one of us will gain from just doing a better job of growing and harvesting and processing the food more efficiently and then using the food more efficiently so this incredible waste of food is reduced and hopefully eliminated. That has a big overall carbon footprint. It's remarkable and it's one every one of us can work on. It's a great point. If we just take a moment and we build this movement we know millions of lives will be affected if we don't act but we can look at what is possible. So what's important is as you said sometimes these reports are so scientific but we need to be able to share the substance and the steps going forward that we can take together to make sure that this report doesn't just sit on a shelf gathering dust but more importantly allows us to look at this window to see what we can do to save our world going forward. Yeah. I think another thing that we can all work on is the throw away society and the single use society where so many things we use once and toss and every step as we go through our day we should be looking at how can we reuse things containers and clothing is another one people never think of that a lot of clothing people buy wear a few times then it sits in their closet for years and then they dump it. And so it's another example where if we were just more conscientious about our carbon footprint of these everyday things it adds up to making a big difference. I appreciate you bringing up the issue of fast fashion it's something that's not considered at all and it's one of those aspects of SDG number 12 responsible consumption and production and it's really coming up with this mitigation menu allows us to look at all of the global goals and then implement them on the ground in our daily lives. So I wanna thank you so much Steve for coming on and sharing with us what is possible and how we can take this scientific language and the smorgasbord of sustainability practice to make our world better and show that the time is running out but it's not unavoidable. We can understand the science and we can take actions that then bring us closer to the 1.5. Yeah. Yep. I think these are things that every one of us in our daily lives can make a difference in and actually be quite comfortable doing. That's a great point too. It's one is oh no how can we do it? We already have the technology and two it's not looking at the sacrifice it's actually pointing out how everything is connected we actually will be healthier the more we walk and then we use less fossil fuels so it's making those connections and then taking care of all the things that people consider worry about post COVID or on a daily basis depending on when beach seasons are coming up and your snow's stopping in Montana. Yep that's right. Well thank you so much Stephen for making time we'll have to it could be Stephen Viking as well as running. Thank you so much for coming and sharing with us and we appreciate all of your work over the decades to be a scientist to be able to make sure that we know what we need to do and we'll do our best to make sure our politicians take the right actions as well. Good, good this has been fun. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.