 My name is Mark Lawrence and next month. I'll assume the role of director of the LBJ presidential library. I can't wait to get Thank you so much. I can't wait to get started in that role And it's a real treat tonight to jump the gun a little bit by taking part in tonight's festivities Before I introduce our guest of honor I'd like to recognize our friends programming sponsors, St. David's health care and the moody foundation Thank you so much for your generous support Upcoming friends programs will feature former US senator and NBA star Bill Bradley on February 11th and Ford Foundation president Darren Walker on March 5th Among the many great things about stepping into the Directorship of this institution is the opportunity to continue a long tradition of bringing innovative exciting and Culturally rich exhibitions to the Austin community Tonight's event celebrates our current special exhibit Motown the sound of young America Curated by the Grammy Museum the exhibit is the first to embrace all facets music culture and politics of one of the most Significant artistic and cultural departures of the 1960s Motown a blend of gospel blues and pop began in Detroit in the early 60s and quickly became the sound of young America Crashing the American pop charts and challenging the British invasion led by the Beatles the visionary Motown The visionary of Motown Barry Gordon jr. A former prize fighter and songwriter Believed that talent could be found on nearly every Detroit street corner and he succeeded in bringing the iconic sound Into the mainstream it's a sound that continues to influence music and culture around the world to this very day One of Motown's top performers the Supremes Remain the number one female recording group of all time according to billboard magazine Tonight we are enormously privileged to have as our special guest a founding member of the Supremes Mary Wilson Who achieved an unprecedented? 12 number one hits Including where did our love go baby love stop in the name of love and back in my arms again The Supremes made history as the first African-American artists on the Ed Sullivan show and their successes helped change racial perceptions throughout the country Mary went on to become a best-selling author motivational speaker business woman and former u.s. Cultural ambassador her new book supreme glamour which some of you have seen Documents not only the journey of the Supremes from their founding in Detroit in 1959 to their disco hits of the 1970s But also their glamorous coordinated clothing ensembles that became one of their signatures As moderator this evening we were scheduled to have lbj foundation ceo mark up to grove with us But unfortunately he came down with a bad case of laryngitis and extends his apologies Very happily however our good friend Judy maggio graciously agreed to do the honors Judy maggio as many of you will know is a very prominent local journalist now serving as Editorial director for the austin pbs station k l r u She leads decibel a multi-platform news initiative doing in-depth reporting on key community issues in central texas Judy is a gifted journalist and we're really thrilled that she could join us. Thank you so much to Judy After the program Please plan to join us for a holiday reception in the great hall upstairs The motown exhibit will be open and you can pick up a copy of mary's books and other holiday gifts in the store As well as enjoying an amazing array of motown themed hors d'oeuvres. I'm very curious to see what that involves This fall universal music group and showtime released a feature length documentary To mark the 60th anniversary of the founding of motown records I invite you to watch a short clip now to set the stage for tonight's conversation Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming mary wilson and judy maggio to the stage She's coming If she doesn't make it i'll just sing for y'all, okay? Judy judy judy mary mary mary I am so thrilled that mark ought to grow up lost his voice Well, I I told him that I would make him a hot toddy, you know to help that voice come We've got a hot toddy for you mark But thank you for trusting me for sitting in this beloved seat and thank you so much for sharing your evening with us Thank you. Thank you. We are delighted to have you And I know that you've just gotten done with all the dancing with the stars I know this is a whole new generation who's going to learn about you and your many many talents Including your dancing abilities. Well, you know, but I think that probably everyone here Saw us on the ad celebrate shows and and the dean martin show and the sunny and share show Hullabaloo shindig and we and we always danced We always dance so that's why I tell everyone is this it wasn't new for me to dance Because we always we had the best choreographer in the world charlie atkins who did the Stop in the name of People you break my heart think it over But I I was someone sent me a Sort of videos I guess And and I was able to see all of the different shows that we did we florence dyne And I did on this at salamence show and shindig and hullabaloo and we were always doing You know those standard dances. I mean, that's what we did So when I got on dance with the stars Even though I had been 50 some years Earlier, uh, it wasn't it was it was still wonderful to be able to do all those different dances And as most people know, I was one of the first people to be eliminated from the show We won't talk about that. No, we won't talk. No, we're gonna talk about it And the reason why I say that is that, you know, it's one of those things where people say, oh, I just love you But people didn't vote You know So you can love you can love someone but you gotta vote for who you want up there or in there Right So there you go, but I enjoyed it. I I totally had a great time being on the show. I really did I would have liked to have been on a little longer, but I made so many great friends Uh, and and so, you know, now it's almost like the at motown A lot of us grew up together there and whenever we're together it's like, uh, what you call it a family reunion So now dance with the stars. It's like a family reunion. We have a new generation Well, I want to go back to the very beginning and talk about Your start because I don't think a lot of people realized didn't you guys start with four people and you were the primates We started with four and uh, let me see. It was in 1959 And I think we were probably around 13 years old Uh in 1959 and so we started singing As for it's like you said four members four girls We were all from we all lived in detroit michigan And what was really great about the time was I when djs, I know nowadays you don't have radio like we used to have You know a dj could make or break you You know and uh met a couple ladies who said they were from american bandstand in philadelphia Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and so we were talking about you know, these djs who uh, who used to like they would say They would have dances on the weekend and they would say come on down to the gravestone ballroom because we got johnny mathas and the primates Well, no one knew who we were because we didn't we didn't have any hit records back then You were babies too We were we were only by this time we were like 14 years old and so we would do these record hops and pretty soon we realized that uh We were on shows with people who were recording and making music people We were hearing on the radio and we said what whoa, we've just been doing this for it's a hobby Now maybe we should think about recording. So that's kind of how we got into it It was burst a hobby and then we got hooked into it And so what led you to mo to motel? Yeah, it was probably the fact that we were um, you know just Doing all these shows these were disco shows We were doing all those things and so uh, you know being with people who were actually making music We started I always said we kind of dare to dream And this was at a time i'm going to get a little serious for right now. This was a at a time when black people Uh, didn't really only thing, you know people were daring to do was just to stay alive All right, my aunts and uncles they would talk about these times and so for us when we started singing You know and in thinking about recording This was another kind of dream that we had and Once once we were on the show. I think it was with uh, johnny mathis We went back and we said, you know what maybe we should think about Uh recording music and and that's when we kind of dared to dream. It was an impossible dream But we did it and we got an audition with smoky robinson and the miracles Who diane knew it diane knew smoky from another neighborhood and uh, so she said well I know smoky maybe we can go over there and get another have his group, you know to uh, listen to us and we did that And um, that's how we kind of hooked up with motel because then after that We got an audition with mr. Very gordy and that changed everything that changed not only did it change everything Is who I am today is why i'm standing here today because mr. Very gordy did like us And uh, he signed us, but at first he didn't sign us in fact Really, you know at first he said to us. He says look Why don't you girls go back to high school and and come back after you graduate from school? So we didn't realize that at the time that he really was Probably just a little leery of four girls young teenage girls. We weren't even 16 yet Who uh, he didn't want to be responsible for at the time We just thought maybe he was just kind of oh, they're not good But we knew we were good. This is something about me florence and diane. We actually knew That we were really good And and and I said when I first met diane florence and betty the fourth member I realized that something Something was happening to me in life. It was almost like at the age of 13 I I saw myself Here in front of you. I saw something that I didn't even understand but They kind of they kind of actually Completed me. Let's put it that way. I saw parts in them that I didn't maybe have or know I had And I felt with them it was a complete group And I think that people around the world have felt that when they saw the supreme's it was like one perfect unit We really were one, you know one perfect unit. I think I read you the number one female recording group well I won't get into politics, but you know, it depends on different poles, you know, what poles Politics is like that too. Well, that's what I was implying but anyway So I mean My favorite groups well back then girl groups were really popular and the chantels or charelles, you know, the the linen sisters I mean it was the girl power was out there Um, and then they kind of left Um, and so now some of the groups I think are much better than we are But you know in terms of but in terms of record sales the supreme's in 1964 had their first number one um Selling million selling record and then we had five consecutive number one million selling records in ninth from 1965 And then we had one that wasn't quite a number one, but then we after that one we had another five So we had like 10 10 11 number one million selling records and we gave those those Beatles and rolling stones and all them English boys A run for their money and we were girls Uh, but there I was I should say this while I was talking about the other girl groups There were lots of girl groups the Ronettes, you know the the Dixie cups I mean we were all doing very well, but I think why the supreme's Became we're voted the number one female group of all time was mainly because television Came into play and as we look now it's the same thing I mean if you become a star on television, you are you are a major star Well, I remember working with all these great stars who never made as much money as some of these kids are making today You know in television reality stars and all that stuff back then I mean I used to hang out with sammy davis and And then bob hope I mean all these people and no one ever made the kind of money They're making a day television does can do that for you can change your life back then it was the same thing Because prior to what 63 64 You know television wasn't it wasn't the same thing, but once the variety show started, you know Like I say they had Sullivan There's so many others. I can't even think of the name right now But once that started we the supreme's had I hit records and we we were on every major tv show So we went into the homes of everyone. So I think that that made us Probably not so much better than any other group It was just that we had the exposure From television that the other artists did not have the other field So that's one of the reasons we were voted, you know, the number one female group also We were kind of known not just for the music My book Judy, let me tell you I'm doing my animal item Fashion we were known for the not just the music it was also fashion because Our image was that of glamour and for three little black girls, you know, the back in the 60s That was something it was unheard of, you know, tell us about this book Why the books I know you've written two others in the past What what makes this one special and it other than the fact that it's absolutely visually beautiful Well because of what I'm just saying now about the fashion It's about the glamour that kind of doesn't exist now, you know I remember we bought our first pearl necklaces at Woolworth's And and and our first pictures Were of us wearing these little pearls, you know, because in that's we glamour was it So our our image was our image kind of I won't say surpass the records because probably most Everyone in here knows of all of our records stopping the name of love baby love You can't hear your love you keep it hanging on, you know, everyone knows about the music But the image the imagery that we had was also great I'll give you a great story my brother Roosevelt Who was in the vietnam war and I do have to say that he After he came back he was not really he was never the same But I remember one time he was stationed in Central Domingo, I think it was and we were playing in Miami at the Eden Rock or a Dove Hotel. I'm not sure which one it was And so he came over from Santo Domingo and and and we were we did our show the Supremes and afterwards this beautiful young lady came over the Jewish lady and she says I'm so happy to meet you guys. She says and you know, she says I allow my children and my family to watch you when you're on every every sunday on Ed Sullivan's show So my brother who was a wannabe panther He never got that far. But anyway, so he was there. He says what does she mean? She's allowed her family to stay up to watch you guys on that Sullivan show I'm like, well Roosevelt That's what what it is now because back in those days people did not allow their children to watch black people So we were one of the we were one of the first To an intelligent again was what really helped People to allow black people into their homes. And so that's kind of what it was all about I know Oprah mentioned that see you and the Supremes on this on the Ed Sullivan show was the first time she Identified Oh, no, I mean That you that you really were a role model for for young black girls watching television that there's someone that looks like me And she's on tv. That's what uh, oh She um whoopie wrote the forward for my book And over to yes, she did and she said The very first time I ever saw the Supremes. I remember thinking Can I ever look like them? I had a black and white television and I remember seeing them on Ed Sullivan's stage So poised and elegant. They were matching Tossled dresses and fly shoes Shoes and um Their faces beat and their hair up in a bouffant except for Flo who had a flip They were three of the most beautiful women I had Ever seen little did I know until much later that the dresses and the shoes were salmon color Who knew we could look so good in salmon? And then they opened their mouths. I've been crying. Ooh, because I'm lonely for you Uh smiles have altered two tears, but tears won't wash away the fears with arms. Oh, okay. Anyway We love it when you sing I was kind of I should have said that but I was reading here With arms swaying like thin grass in a mild summer breeze bodies moving in synchronization These were brown women as they had never ever been seen before on national television The Supremes right there in front of me three different shades of brown Gorgeous stunning and stylish made my head explode Only only who could say something like that, right? Everything about the supreme supreme's all those gowns all those pants shoes and all those capes Gloves furs the makeup the eyelashes the wigs made me believe they were speaking to me I too could be well spoken tall majestic and An emissary of black folks who also came from the projects Whatever they wore reflected the many looks of black folks Including the hair which was everything from an afro to a bob and that did it for me. That's when I knew I was theirs for life They were unapologetic and brave I look back and I wonder if they had any idea that they taught me And a new generation the pride of being black diana mary and flow my heroes whoopee That's beautiful I couldn't you know when I asked her if she would write the forward to the book. I couldn't I could only hope that she would because I knew she was one of those little black girls who Saw the Ed Sullivan Shaw And and and and back then we just we were just doing what using the gift that god gave us You know what I mean? We weren't thinking that people were looking at us We were just trying to be somebody ourselves, right and here Years later, you know, I see that we Just by being ourselves and and doing and looking the way we wanted to look Uh, it really influenced people and you so you never do know who you influence in life Yeah Do you feel like your music and a lot of the motown music influenced the entire civil rights movement in a way? Um, well, I I would say I would say that the way I look at What the motown music did Is to give people and mr. Barry gordy said this not me He says I want to give people music the motown sound So that everybody can enjoy the music. I was prior to that all people he says prior to that You know people have to hide and if they like the music you have to have to hide You know not let anyone know that they are listening to black music You know, he said I want people to be able to enjoy music because as we know throughout the ages I mean I went back to nyu and got my associate's degree In uh, 2000. I think I graduated in 2001 and I remember That it it was wonderful to be able to Get myself I don't know how you can say it so that I could feel like a star. I mean we Oops, sorry. We were we were stars, but still inside we felt like little niggers And until you get a certain kind of of sort of Enlightenment I don't care how much money you get or how much fame you get Inside you still feel like little Tommy or little, you know, Mary or little whoever Until you really can you know be proud of yourself. So what was your question? I Was talking about the influence the music had on the civil rights movement because we're going through another very tumultuous time right now as you know Right the music I know that's that I was going there and I went that way, but uh, the music Is something throughout the ages. That's where I left off throughout the ages. We know that music has always been there uh From empires from Intiquity, you know always been there to help people enjoy themselves and there's kings and queens You know, they have the minstrels and all this whatever because music does have that influence it. It gives a person Uh, you know something inside it touches you inside. It's not about your thoughts or not about anything The emotions music touches the emotions. That's what it is And so I think that with motetown And very gory deciding to make that mute that motel music the mute motel sound So that it could be enjoyed by everyone was uh, I have to give him the credit for Saying that's what I want to do now It's a collaboration in terms of all the people that came to motel motel is like a to me a disney land I mean the the writers to producers all the artists of arvin gaze tv wonder You know, I can a whole list of temptations or poor tops and and all these people But it was a collaboration because we had a place to go mr. Very gory was very Into knowing that we needed a place Our own place So no one could tell you how to do your musical or what you got to do this But you can come there and that's what we all did as young kids when we finally We finally got the audition Oh, I'll tell you how I get we got the audition once he told us to go back to high school. All right, mr. Gordy He did. Oh, he told us to go back to high school. He says well, we not that we were going to leave high school Our parents would have killed us had we thought about Okay, because I mean even though we were poor and we lived in the projects We our upbringing was extremely good. I mean it was really our parents were My mother who couldn't read and write always said I want my children to go to college And so we were always, you know, we were made to be in school and so when we Just before we got our hit record. I remember I told mr. Eddie Holland Brian Holland Eddie Holland and Lamont dojo were the ones who wrote all of our 10 million selling records in the 60s Right, they did the word our logo baby love stopping the name of love. You can't hurry love I hear symphony. I mean they wrote them all and produced them all right and it was amazing because Just before we got the hit record. I told Eddie Holland I said Eddie we need a hit record because if we don't get a hit record Our parents are going to make us help make us go to college Showed you how silly I was right but But it was true. So eventually when we finally got signed to to motel and I remember Um, we were sitting out on the grass I I have a backtrack here to tell you how we actually got signed too. I didn't tell you that so, um We're still in high school now. We're in high school now and uh, every time an artist say the miracles of a couple was Hey, Mary, how are you now? Mary will say, I don't mean temptation, you know, so we we we ingratiated ourselves to motel So just by being there every day, right? So we knew everyone who went into motel and one day The some of the producers came out and they said we need someone to do some hand clap for us and we said So that's how we actually got in You were just an audience Oh, we we you know how they say you sit outside of a building and you yeah, we just sort of yeah Just hung out there. We just hung out there every day after school, right? So now we're inside And we're like recording, you know doing backhand claps and things like that and pretty soon, mr Very good. He said, you know what? You girls are real. I see you're very serious. He says i'm gonna sign you And uh, now by now we're 15 and a half That grizzled veterans by that time right well because we have been working all over the door doing the record house. Yeah uh, and so so anyway, so when the time came for him, he said To sign the contract for us sign us up He said, but you got to change your name. I don't like that name primates at all And we were like what nobody's gonna know us if we change our name, right? Uh, and so no, but you got to change. So anyway, we said, okay So all of our parents had to come because we were only an hour 16 years old. So 1961 and so We go there and we we're thinking that he had to gotten that we had to change our names, but he had not And so there's a contract like myself my mother couldn't read no right And so she didn't know what was on the contract and we all we wanted to do was just sign a motel or we didn't care I would have given away my 11 grandchildren Had I ever thought I was gonna have any well now I wouldn't do that but anyway But back then we didn't have a lawyer, you know and all we wanted to do was so we didn't know So we just we signed the contract our parents signed it Little did we know that at the bottom it says and any name you Uh acquire or get will belong to motel so Florence was the one who came up with the name and uh the name then was motel, but we didn't know this I didn't know it until maybe Seven eight years later when Florence was no longer in the group then I found out that we did not own our name Uh and by then we had had all our hit records and everything like that. We never did get a lawyer We never ever got a lawyer to negotiate for us and that was kind of That's something I've been fighting for many years, but that's another whole litigation is part of my thing now Well, I I had about the truth. I actually I'm sorry. I actually said I should have married a lawyer Then I wouldn't have to you know, I could get him do all the work Well, tell us then about this truth in music act that you've been fighting for Uh now now that's later now that is later right through the music I do want I do want to come back to that uh in that because it is part of what how I've become sort of uh Involved and in politics in a way you might see but there are a couple of pieces of legislation that actually, um Um, uh rick perry signed one of them for me here and really? Yes. Yes. Yes. So anyway Two pieces of legislation one is called the modernization act which has to do with uh, if you recorded Pre 1972 anytime people would stream music or play it on Do whatever they do on the radio The artists did not get paid if you hear how many people out there think when you hear our music on the radio You think we get played right? No, we don't however Any artists from uh post 1972 they get paid every time their music is whatever they get paid. So I and a lot of the other artists Went on a grassroots situation and we got that bill passed and it passed in both the house. It passed everyone Voted it. Yes. So it was passed and trump signed it. Uh, sorry. I keep so this is recent This is more recent. That's what now the one that rick perry helped me on here in texas Is called which you just asked about was the truth in music and that has to do with artists who have lost their names because people are going out and calling And they they formed groups and they call them by the famous names of groups that already exist And so, you know, you can go to a show and if you see a record that was recorded back in the 1950s But the people up there look like they're only 12 or 13 years old, you know, that couldn't be them, you know So the truth of music was passed bill was passed. I think it was 28 states and now I'm working with the ria To um get that passed in the federal courts so that you know, we don't have to use our own money I mean, I've been I've been in litigation and lost cases Because I didn't even own the name supreme's which I've still been trying to do So all of these things that those two bills are the things that I've been a part of and I'm very happy So if you go to a show and you want to hear the music which I know people love the music I do too, you know, but some of these people Uh, they've stolen our names. I mean, it's like identity theft, but it's music. So I want to get that Into law and that way we can, uh, you know, stop them. So that was it I want to switch back a little bit to the Motown days. I was thinking about this Because you all were african-american and you were traveling And after seeing the famous movie, I think it was the green book. Oh the green book. Yeah I was thinking about that and what it what was it like for you as three african-american women traveling all over the country um Did you face issues or problems because of your race? Um, let's go even go further than that further back because, um Some of the earlier tours we did We did de clark caravan of stars to her Someone who just mentioned they were in who said they were from philadelphia. They were on american bandstand. Yes She used to be there. She used to dance on the american bandstand. Really? Yeah So Anyway We the supreme's were before we became famous. No, let me back back a little bit more from that Because I was talking about eddie holland and how we wanted to have the hit record and he So uh told me if we don't get a hit record our parents were sinister college. Well, we did get the hit record All right And after that, uh motown records. Mr. Barry gordy sent us out on a tour with de clark And it was a tour with jean pitney how many people remember jean pitney? Yeah jean pitney it was it was uh the surels It was all kind of people on this tour I was black and white on the tour and this still was you know early in in that whole thing with You know black and white situation So we would we traveled throughout the south and in many places We were pulled into and uh, they wouldn't let us all in So I remember mr. de clark would say well if All of us can't come in then, you know He said everybody get back on the bus. So we'd have to get back on the bus Now that was on the de clark tour and then now we had some motown review tours, which was all black And that was really tough on us. I remember We got shot at the bus got shot at a couple of times and what was it? Well, I tell you what a beautiful thing that happened We would do some shows and of course they would have a line On the middle and you have the blacks on this side You have the whites on this side and we go up there and we're just singing You know everyone's singing doing that thing the miracles whatever and by the time the show is halfway You know into whatever everyone's mingling and so we had this one. I remember this one I don't know if he's a sergeant what he was Uh, I remember his name called peck pepper And he would come up. He says all right. All right, break it up. Break it up, you know And uh, it was amazing because we got on the bus and and uh Then someone said they heard the gunshots. So mary wells. It was really popular at the time. You know, I've got two lovers And I'm not ashamed remember and uh, so she was kind of a little on the broad side And so it was an old bus and she she she she just fell down down in the stairwell there and wouldn't move Right. So we were all trying to climb over the contours You know the miracles the temptations the supreme's the marvelous. We all try to climb over her So anyway, so we get on we get everyone eventually gets on the bus and we take off down the road Uh, and then everyone started singing. I don't know what we were singing But we just started singing singing singing and what a sound that must have been. Yeah, right But it was amazing because we then ran into sergeant kerb Cold pepper. I think it was again on someplace else down the line. He says, all right. I'm taking care of y'all now Y'all just don't don't be getting anybody aroused out here. You know, he was just one all We're like, we're just singing. Okay. Now one last story about this. We love your stories. Tell us maybe Okay And so this one time the same tour of the motel review tour we It's steve's cp wonder's record had just become a hit. I think it was fingertips And so we're in this raggedy bus, right? We're we're in florida Uh, I can't remember which part of florida. But anyway, so we had a day off So the bus pulled up to this motel and we got we got in And someone said that's a swimming pool out there And we said what and we said, oh good. So everyone kind of came back down and jumped in the pool, right? And all the white people who were there they jumped out So not so so the but the here's a beautiful part about it. So, you know, we're like, okay Someone had a transistor. Remember that transistor radio. Sure So someone had it and the music was playing and they were talking about the show that was coming to town with steve Wonder and da da da da da da da and someone said I think that's steve wonder right there. I think that So then everyone jumped back in the pool And the rest of the day we parted everybody we just party So it shows you It shows you that, you know, what music does but it what music can do But it also shows you that when we're when the law is a law, you know, people abide by that Except maybe now You know and You know, but but but we get beyond it because of our the human parts of us our emotions I'm saying that I touch with music and I just think that I'm very happy That I have been in this business for 58 years and that music has Given me this As we live through this this tumultuous time that we're in right now another divided time Do you think that music can can have a big influence like it did during your day? Do you think it's having an influence a positive influence? You know, I I don't I think now we're beyond that type of Hell I think it's we have to go back to To us as being human beings and what we as human beings Want to happen and everyone has to want peace And things of that nature in order for Even music to be effective. I don't think music can be effective now because it's not about it's not about that anymore It's more about money. It's more about powers or it's about position And so therefore it's kind of I think it's going to take each of us To to to know what we should do as human beings at this time So that maybe our grandchildren our great-grandchildren can have a better way of life You know, and so I I think that with me when I go on stage to sing I That's what I have in my heart. And so if that's what I can do I think each person Mother father uncle whoever we that's what we have to do to the world. We have to give the best parts for ourselves and maybe that Can help change and then of course the music can come in but right now it's all about it's I I don't mean to say politics, but it's all about it's all this corporate type thing You know no one's I mean I look I look at tv I don't really look at tv anymore But I have a couple things that I like and I see That you know if you look some of the commercials you see Things I would I would tell my children don't don't look at that. I mean that's horrible Um and the children are talking back to their parents and commercials or that you know, it's like it's like so negative everything is negative And we're selling it. We're selling likes and we're celebrating it, you know And I think that is so bad. I don't really curse And sometimes if I hit my knee or something I will say a word or two And my my my children if they hear this Mom, what are you doing cursing, you know, because I don't that's not the way I brought them up And that's not the way who I'm I won't say I haven't done anything bad. I mean in fact, I have a book that I cannot even write About some of the things That's what they keep saying, but no, I'm gonna never write it, you know, because we all We all have things that are passing our lives that you know, if you look back at them Oh, I'm sure it's silly stupid to do that. You know, I should I won't do that again, you know, but I just feel that It's really time Most of us as I look out there. I'm 75 and a half years old And when I look out there, I see people from the same generation that I grew up with And I think that if we're so unhappy, maybe we should do something Maybe we should do something and we're gonna go away. Maybe we I mean, everybody can't get up there and march and do all those things My brother used to say to me the one who was a wannabe panther But he wasn't vietnam, but you know, he used to say to me Mary, why don't you die on the floor wear afros? Well, this was when we were not we were still like You know the big wings And I said, well, Roosevelt, you know Some people can march and make things happen. They can do this I say, but we're doing what we do in the way that we can do it We're showing beauty From the way that we can do it and this is who we are And and I really feel that way I think that each person should be honest with themselves and try to just do what you think should be done What is that do unto others as we have others do unto you? But we've kind of lost a lot of that I mean, you know, so I'm I'm happy that I grew up in the time when I grew up with my grandparents and my Mom and my aunts and my uncle's telling me, you know, the right things to do. I'm not that I always did it But I mean, I do do think that Yes What do you want to tell you one thing? I'm sorry. Yes I because because we kind of stage is you're we're kind of moving But my I want to say something about People that influence you and the mentors that we've had because I think everybody stands on somebody's shoulders Whether it's even if it's just your parents, but my English teacher, mr. Boom Said to me one day he says miss wilson. I know that you you sing with this little group the primates He say but if you don't pass my my class You will not graduate. Okay, you won't be able to go out there with this little group Oh, that's what he talked and you know, everyone has a teacher in school that you're afraid of You know, there's always the one who's going to fail you know, right? So you don't want to be in his class or her class But I got mr. Boom's class every his english class every semester from the fresh age all the way to the last one. So anyway So I get scared because I'm in the 12th grade now, right? And we're getting ready to have the the the records released and all this kind of stuff So I wrote this paper And it was a paper about my earlier upbringing when I found out that my mother That I my aunt and uncle were not my mom and my dad So I grew up thinking my aunt and my uncle were my mom and dad All right, and so at age of 10 I finally they introduced me to my mother and then I'm like, oh And then they introduced me to my brother and my sister. So I didn't know anything, right? And so I wrote this I wrote about that And how it I felt like it had just Adults are liars, you know, and it really got to me and so I wrote about it and then I passed this paper into mr. Boom And he gave me an a plus plus plus plus But but but not before he gave me the whole thing like miss wilson He says I think that you should perhaps consider becoming and I'm said, oh my god All I want him to do is just pass me so I can go down and record He said I think you should consider becoming a writer Ah I said to myself This man is really out of his mind But as long as he passes, it is okay with me So anyway when I went down to motel I What I started keeping a diary because he something must I don't know if something got in there And I didn't think I I'd start keeping a diary at that age and And here I am some years later. I've had three books and one was the best seller You never know You know when you hear something and people your mentors and you don't even know they're your mentors, you know So I really wanted to bring that up because I've not given him the credit credit even in the book I have not said that and I need to start Saying that he is responsible for my becoming a writer and I forgot why I said that Does he know about your past he passed but but but no no he does I'm you're right. He does know that we the supreme's became famous and all that kind of stuff in fact He said to me one year. He says miss wilson. I'm so proud that you didn't listen to me So that was really cool, you know, it was really cool And But I There are other people who I I tried to mention some in this book and I would maybe in the next book I'll bring out because When you get older some things you You kind of forget people in a way and there were many many other people who really helped us Our supreme's Diane's mom was our chaperone and she was just great. She was great for all of us Um, we have people who would just drive us. I mean we had so many people who were our who took care of us when we didn't have anything And so when we became famous, you know, I I really have to now look back and say wow You know There are people out there that you really got to say thank you even if you can't remember them You just got to say thanks gonna just pass Thank you for all the people in my life because I wouldn't be who I am without all of those people Willed that's the truth. Yeah, so why did you guys break up and what happened to the fourth primate? I mean, I know that flow had some alcohol and Issues people say that flow had the alcohol issues, but I'll go back to that too Okay, and it was she she did but not because of the alcohol. Okay, this was I I'm very happy about the me too movement nowadays because when Florence was 14 years old. We were still the primates and uh, she was abused To she was raped uh at the age of 14 and that to me totally destroyed her um in terms of her being Her full capabilities of being Who she should have been she was a beautiful person and it was that was at a time when people didn't talk about those things, you know You just didn't talk about him. So her appearance kind of Didn't tell us what was happening and Florence Diane and I I thought that flow would get over once we became famous I just you know, this is gonna. She'll be okay But it's not true because she didn't get that help and that's why this me too movement that's out there now is so good I don't think that people should Go out there and say well, you know, he did that he did there. She did that. Yeah, I don't believe in that But some things need to be addressed Uh, not just by family or friends. They need to be You know Addressed in a way to help people Because those things really do destroy you inside. I mean I saw my friend who Was a beautiful young lady Florence actually named the supreme. She's it was she started the group She was a great singer flow was just flow. She don't know that she loves as a Romeo But that was in one of the records. But anyway, um So but she was a beautiful lady and even when we became famous, um, you know It it it was okay for a while But pretty soon when other things started happening She just couldn't handle it because it was all of this was still happening to her So when people say she was the alcoholic, I say no, that's that's not that's not a problem She was a victim and a lot of these people need to be helped. So I'm very happy that people are speaking out About it. Um, so what was it? But the but what happened to the fourth primate? No, that was it. Um, so for Betty the original primate was a little older than Diane and flow and I she was I think she was 17 when we met and We were only 13 so she eventually got married and we had to get another girl Barbara whom I talked to all the time And uh, she she actually was a supreme So there were actually four supreme's because when we signed the contract it was Barbara was there as well Very few people know that I I wrote about that in this book and um so she actually Was really beautiful as well, but she fell in love and uh She got married as well However, we did replace her because we said, you know what? We don't think we're going to get married me flowing down and you sound good. Just the three of you sound really good So we said so we didn't get a fourth member. So that's how we ended up with three Okay, but I speak to Barbara all the time. Betty unfortunately passed away uh Maybe about 10 or 15 years ago. I think it was but uh, Barbara is still in love with the same guy So she said girl he said she said girl willy is I say well, yeah, but at least you still got somebody we that we don't have anywhere So I love is that yes But why did you guys finally split the group of several reasons first of all Florence was the first person who was put out of the group and Florence was put out of the group Due to what you said the drinking because she in her own way she had tried to you know to What people do people, you know, you got pain you try to cover it up so um and then in life just kind of After having traveled all over the world Do it all these great things and then coming home and not having the kind of money she needed all this pain so her life was She was one of the people in life. I say that Between she and diane have really helped me to know What to do and what not to do and that if you You just got to keep going and believe in yourself And you can't let the pain stop you a lot of things can stop you I'm like a lot of things can stop you and because diane went zoom to the top I knew that that was there for me to do because Florence wasn't able. I knew that mary. I was always in the middle middle child I was always in the middle So I I I learned from From from them to um, you know, take care of myself and do the best I could to be Who I really should be in life and like I said, I made a lot of mistakes, but you know still Uh in the long run. I believe that I've done What I should I I believe I'm okay. Yeah. Yeah, we we think you're wonderful We We're running out of time unfortunately, I have one final question for you though It's really kind of twofold You could be resting on your laurels at this point, you know, those things stick But you're out there performing you're gonna be performing one world theater here in austin in february perform all over the country You do dance at the stars at your home like what a couple days a week and then you're off on the road What do you still get out of that? I enjoy I mean like I said, I when I met floe diane and betty, I I knew this I knew that was You know that for me, I saw the full picture of A beauty of completeness. I mean, yes Uh Doesn't matter about the end or the goal It was about for me and still is for me What makes me happy as a human being? And so I I tell a lot of kids when I not kids but children When I I do a lot of lectures and I tell them, you know, you all know everyone's not Rich and famous and all those kind of things a lot of us have to work hard So you might as well work hard as something you enjoy And I've enjoyed this all my life That's kind of what I You know, are you gonna are you gonna retire? I'm like, well, then I'd be bored You know, I love traveling when I was a kid the young girl I used to read fairy tales and You know for me I I dreamt about traveling all over the world meeting wonderful people falling in love and You know, but you know now I now I see that it's it's it's it's so much more to life than trying to reach Your goal because I think that we already are whole I think that life is about maybe experiencing You as a whole, you know, and those each experience that you have That's a picture. That's already I think it's already been done, you know And I want to continue doing it. So anyway So that's that was going to be my final thing We'd love to Yeah We'd love to hear your voice Okay, I think it's on testing one It's on it's on are you gonna sing background with me? No, just sure I can I you can do that I sang on willy nelson's bus for the ones that did you yeah, but this is a much bigger thrill Too much information judy Now it's time for me to interview her There was a certain odor in the bus Oh, I can tell you a story about that too The first time we met uh not no, there wasn't the first time we met the Beatles It was a second time actually uh in new york city when they came over they were staying at the um I can't think of the name or hotel right now, but anyway, we had the pr people had gotten us together and said We want to put the two groups together And uh, you know get pictures and do all those kind of things So we got all dressed up in our little pearls and our little everything we were like so cute and uh So we got we pulled up and into there with the warwick hotel Pull up to in front of the warwick hotel and all the girls was you know standing out there screaming screaming for the Beatles They thought maybe one of the guys so they ran over to the car and they saw the three girls Anyway, so we get upstairs and yeah, the odor was quite So they had and in fact, I had heard that uh bob dillon had just left one of the the Ronettes had been over I mean they were like, you know, they were like sitting out there like kings and kings, you know Everyone was coming up to see them and so really, you know, they were nice enough, but uh We we we felt that we we told our guys it's uh, I think we better leave So years later when when george george uh harris and I became very dear friends and he said to me He says yeah Mary. He says, you know, we were wanting you girls to get out of there too because you were killing our You know our fun. We were having too much fun and you guys he says, you know Three black girls. We thought you guys were going to be hip and all that kind of stuff and you came up there And you were so square and we like So anyway But you're here to tell the story Right no complaints no regrets I still believe in Chasing dreams And placing bets It's a it's a it's a large chair, but I have learned that all you give Is all you get So give it all you got I had my share And I drank my fill And even though I'm satisfied I'm hungry still To see what's down another road beyond the hill And do it all again So here's And every joy it brings So here's to life to dreamers and their dreams Funny How the time just flies How love can go from warm. Hello, sad. Goodbye and leave you with the memories you've memorized To keep your winter's warm, but there's no yes and yes today And who knows what tomorrow brings or it takes away As long as i'm still in the game i'm gonna play For life for love For love So here's to life to dreamers and their dreams And all of that's good here's to love